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Transcript

Episode 3: Toddlers in big bodies · Clinically Chaotic

0:08
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Clinically Chaotic.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm Erica, and today Tara is out.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: So we are being joined by my close friend Janelle.
0:17
unknown: Hi.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Janelle, can you tell us a little bit about kind of your qualifications and your background?
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Unsure if I have any.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, I am a high school teacher.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh bachelor's degree in mathematical sciences with an emphasis in math and psychology, a master's in curriculum instruction.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that leads a lot of people to ask, how and why are you on this podcast?
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Because you told me I had to vape.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: And for the purpose of talking about mental health in schools.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: But before we get to that, I brought something for you today.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Your apprehension speaks volume.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a pink pink.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: This is the hottest pink I've ever seen bag in my entire life with a silly goose on it.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: It's a duck, but a duck and a hat with a mug.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, I can feel it's a mug.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: What the what is this?
1:09
SPEAKER_01: What is this?
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's podcast tradition now.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: This is the largest m handle I've ever had on a mug.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: It's a croissant and it's a thick boy with two C's.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs a ridiculous mug.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you have something like that sitting on your desk on the first day of school, and kids will know.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: You're fun yet serious.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: No, my kids will try to steal it.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: My high schoolers absolutely would say that's really cool.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Can I have it?
1:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, No, this is my space.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: You have to say no.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm bringing a baby gate in.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Have I told you this?
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Say more.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, they tread to sit my desk every day.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Or behind my desk, or like touch my things.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: I'll be in the hallway.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: And then they just want to be in my space.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: And then like go literally across.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: So I'm bringing a baby gate because they've picked off the tape that I put on the floor that says, This is my space.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Love you though.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Like mind your own business.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: And they take it off.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Or they just step over it because they don't look at the floor.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: So I'm putting a baby gate behind my desk.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So they cannot get behind my desk.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: But they're like six five.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's not really gonna stop them.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so but there is a barrier.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: It almost sounds like you're describing elementary school.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're children.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: They're preschoolers, but in like big bodies.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Good.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: So they're doing great.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: And they throw tantrums like toddlers do.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Really?
2:20
SPEAKER_01: How frequently?
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Every day.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Not every kid throws tantrum every day, but they do throw tantrums.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: You've been teaching officially my tenth year.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: So you've kind of seen the progression of mental health in the school system.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's gotten better or worse?
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Um unsure.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: It's different now post-COVID than it was pre-COVID.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I think obviously COVID, the focus on the nation, the world, was on mental health.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: And when we return from COVID, there was more conversation about students' mental health.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Now I think pendulum swing has gone.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: We are so cognizant of mental health that we almost baby mental health and we don't give them the chance to build that resilience and grit that you need to be an adult that functions in a world that you have to face anxiety on a daily basis.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really interesting perspective.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: I've seen a similar shift post-COVID of specifically younger than kids that you work with, but really, really struggling to have any kind of resilience.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: And I did want to talk about specifically kind of IEPs and what they are and what role teachers want therapists to play in them.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Cause I imagine you have a very different perspective on an IEP than I do.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: My last two years at my current school, I have worked with a special ed teacher in a co-taught class, meaning that there is a general ed teacher, me, who teaches math, and a special ed teacher who, for better, we're supposed to verify that we are meeting all of the needs of IEPs.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Um 30% of our class would qualify for an IEP in specifically math, because I'm a math teacher.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, meaning anywhere from seven to 10 of our 30 kids would have an IEP.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Specifically in math.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes there's more.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And you as a teacher are expected to read and memorize all of those.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Most IEPs have the same accommodations.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: So people for people that don't know, uh an IEP is an individualized individualized educational plan or program.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: It lays out how does a student qualify.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: They can qualify in reading and writing, math, um, or behavioral, I believe are the three categories.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm not a special ed teacher, but I have students who have IEPs.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: If they qualify for math, that means that they have um been below in math some amount.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Again, not a psychologist, don't do that part.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: I just read it.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And then we look at their accommodations.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Most students who have IEBs had the same accommodations, and there'll be individualized ones, but most of them are like proximity.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: So check in with them.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: They should have preferential seating.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: That does not mean they get to sit where they want to sit.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: That means you've put them in a space that is beneficial for them.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Chunking is a big thing, chunking their assignments or cutting uh reduced assignments.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Another really big one is like frequent check-ins or their ability to have notes, which can be an issue sometimes.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh reduced testing environments, the ability to take a test in a different environment, not within a classroom, um, or in small group.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Some of them sometimes will have like fidges or things that they can like play with, um, but those are not provided.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: So at-home fidgets that are determined appropriate by the student.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: It just says has access to fidgets.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a super broad category, and I imagine can get really dicey from time to time.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, all high schoolers are squirrely, I'll be very honest.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I taught freshman-proof seniors, they're all toddlers and just big bodies.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: But they can know when I'm serious, they're serious.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: I imagine there's some level of wanting to maybe have appropriate things or being over things like fart jokes that fidgets might imply in class.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: If you think that 14-year-old boys don't make fart jokes on a daily basis, I don't know what 14-year-old boys you've been around.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, none because I'm an adult.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: Fart jokes are a frequent joke in my classroom.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: I did want to talk about IEPs specifically because I recently found out that the nature of IEPs actually started in 1975.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know about you, but looking back in my experience in elementary school, don't think I can identify a single kid who had an IEP or utilized one.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it was for the lack of need.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: But I'm wondering if it's changed how schools interact with IEPs now versus then.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: We don't identify students who have IEPs in my co-taught classes.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Seven to 11 of my students would have IEPs.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: We don't go, oh, Erica has an IEP, Janelle does not.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, we teach them all the same and we provide things where they need to provide.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Me and my co-teacher, for instance, if it says a small testing environment, me and him would go through our roster and we'd say, you're gonna take 50% of the kids, I'm gonna take 50% of the kids.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And not all of that 50% would be students who have an IEP.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: We would just split it so that they're no longer in a class of 31, they're in a class of 15.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: Often it would be, well, this kid has maybe an IEP who needs to be in a specific setting or have specific, like they need notes provided.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna go with him.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: But also, here's a kid who is a gen ed kid, does not have an IEP.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna provide him also this opportunity because he's not doing well, he needs extra support, whatever.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't have an IEP, but let's take him anyway.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: So no, no kids usually know um that other kids have IEPs unless there's like a very specific accommodation that is not normal.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: I imagine if a kid is sitting on a bouncy ball and everybody else has a seat, it would stick out like a sore thumb.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have two spinny chairs in my room.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a fight every day about who gets it, and I just go first come, first serve.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: I also have two wobbly chairs.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: I have four choice chairs and they lose their ability to use my choice chairs sometimes.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And I have 14-year-old boys who don't know how to manage themselves sometimes.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: And I go, You're gonna break my chair, it's mine now.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Or they stand on my wobbly chair and I go, You are gonna fall.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I go, the intrusive thoughts say, We should just help them realize help you realize this is a bad idea.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Consequences to their actions.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: I know you would never, but yeah, I think the intrusive thoughts are really normal.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: I want to take a hard left because I know you do have that psychology background.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it would be fun to maybe see how much of that has stuck over time and how much is reinforced in the school system.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: So I'm pulling up a psych 105 quiz for you just to see where you're at.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: I took psych 105 13 years ago.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Are you ready?
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: The first question is intellectual disability is defined by three criteria: onset before adulthood, IQ below approximately 70, and history of institutionalization for performance in standard school subjects, self-diagnosis or inadequate adaptive functioning.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Either B or D.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I know it's not A or C.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, you can only pick one.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: What was B again?
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh underperforming and educational yeah, in standard school subject.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: And what was D?
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Inadequate adaptive functioning.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: B.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: You are incorrect.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: It is a D.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: It is a D.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Should have left my gut said it was D, and I was like, no, no, no, that there's no way.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: I'll let you redeem yourself.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: What is the name of stress hormones that activate the body that prepare us for stressful circumstances?
9:34
SPEAKER_01: You feel strong about that one?
9:35
SPEAKER_01: You're correct.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: The term progressive in Raven's progressive metrics indicates that test items start off easy and increase in difficulty.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: No.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: This is a culture fair test.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: The test measures fluid intelligence.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: The test was administered in progressive schools in Great Britain.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: I've never heard of this before in my life.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: See, I don't know.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Test items start off easy and increase in difficulty.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: That is how I write all my tests based off the standards in which I can't believe you don't.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Isn't this a standard practice?
10:09
SPEAKER_01: It's not.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay, here's your last one.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: When we judge the likelihood of an event based on how prevalent that event was in our past experience, we are relying on the blank hindsight, functionality, availability, or representativeness.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: I have zero idea.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Again, I took psych 105.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: I believe in you.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Um when we talk about the prevalence of something in our past.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: We are relying on what were the options?
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Hindsight was one of them.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Hindsight, functionality, availability, or representativeness.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what that last is that last word even a word?
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, it's on here, so I guess it um C.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what C was, but that sounds like a good idea.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Availability.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh representative.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: It was your fake word.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Fake word, not a real.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean I'll be teacher considered.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: You could have done worse.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: One out of four.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: That's 25%.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Look at me doing math.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: I do think it's funny though, because I know that a lot of teachers sometimes have this background and you learn things like this, but obviously that's not something that you're using in a classroom.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: What do you think is helpful information for teachers to have in regards to mental health that they can actually utilize and apply in classrooms?
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I will say on a secondary level, a lot less teachers have any background in psychology.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, most secondary teachers major in whatever they're teaching.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: So for instance, if they're a math teacher, they usually have a degree in math, then they get a master's in teaching, where we take an educational psych class, which is obviously very different than like a psych 105 or any of the psych courses that you and I have taken.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, most teachers will take like educational psych will talk a lot about Piagets or Bloom's taxonomy, which is like different ways of cognitive thinking and Maslow, right?
11:52
SPEAKER_01: They don't get into the difference between positive or negative punishment and they don't.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: So the things that would actually probably be helpful in a classroom is looking at the theories and principles of really old and very specifically about education, right?
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Like that you can't learn unless you've met your basic needs.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of teachers don't actually have a lot of uh insight in psychology or brain development.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: I know from a secondary mindset, often we think I'm secondary meaning six through 12, well, six through twenty one year olds.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, because within the state, if you have a student who has an IP, they can stay within the public education system until they're 21.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Specifically, our students who are receive access center, um, which are um they're not in general courses.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: They're often have severe autism or non-verbal.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: And so they can stay within a public education system until they're 21.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, those teachers obviously probably have a a better idea of psychology.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: Special eye teachers have a better idea of psychology.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: A lot of teachers have zero knowledge about it.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're expected to be the front line for any student mental health crisis.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: We see the kids day to day.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: I see them for 55 minutes a day, every single day.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes I'm their safe space and I'm the first one to hear some about something that's going on in their life, their mental health, their anything.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's my job to then refer it to their counselor, and then it's their counselor's job to refer it to our school psych or an off-site counselor or on-site counselor.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: We have both.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: It kind of goes four steps before they even get mental health services within an educational system, unless they've been specifically targeted from history.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that seems incredibly difficult, like to even just go through all of those steps.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Kids can be in a really bad place and be in crisis for an extended period of time.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Also, I am wondering when it comes to school psych and school counselors, how many school counselors do you guys have on staff for how many years?
13:47
SPEAKER_01: So I work at a school that has 1450 students, so 1,450-ish students.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: It changes every year.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: We have five school counselors.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Those five school counselors do everything from um 504s, which are like IEPs, but um more for mental health.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And they're not as permanent.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: They're meant to be looked at every year.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Usually they have to do with health services.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: They do all of our scheduling.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: They do obviously like checking, are you on track to graduate?
14:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, in a secondary level, mostly our counselors are graduation specialists.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Can we get you to your next step of graduation and get you outside of the system?
14:25
SPEAKER_01: This year at my school, we have one and a half full-time psychs, uh, meaning they're doing things like our IEPs in re-evaluations.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: We often don't evaluate a student in a secondary level to like start receiving the services for um special ed.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: I think it's every four years they get re-evaluated to see if they still need services.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And we can exit them or continuing their services.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a lot of pressure for not very many people.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: In addition to handling any kind of crisis or navigating just day-to-day mental health.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: I imagine there's not even a lot of availability to do any of that.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Our counselors have a QR code that our kids can schedule with them.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they have we'll have meetings.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how often they actually access them.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: When we have situations at my school in which there's a traumatic situation, we will often call in external counselors and resources to be there for both students and staff.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: I imagine in a space like that, that might actually be a place where counselors are welcome in schools.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: And because they are unbiased, they're not really in touch with how the school's operating on a day-to-day or the students that they are able to be objective in a space like that.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: It's probably the one time you guys are happy to see them.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is just my experience, but anytime that I have been part of anything in the school system as a therapist, it is obvious to me that administrators are not happy to see my face.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: When we have external therapists coming in and counselors coming in, at least at my school at my level, it is always in response to trauma for our students.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: So nobody is happy to see see that right.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: They're here because we have experienced it happens to be a death often.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: One of our students died, or one of our teachers died, or there was this traumatic experience in our neighborhood.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: And so when our external therapists are there, it's like, oh, we're now facing another traumatic experience for our kids, another shooting, another gang-related death.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Um that's fair.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't have that experience.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: I've never been in a school for that revenue.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: It's been more IEP 504 related.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: I wish honestly that we could come in just occasionally to do general mental health training for teachers.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: I do think that everybody deserves it.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: I think kids rely on you guys so heavily.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you guys are the only safe adults in their world, and therefore you're the only people that they know how to go to, and there might be stigma around mental health in their family.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have the adequate training, I can see how that could potentially cause further harm for kids.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Washington as a whole is pushing for more like SEL, so social emotional learning within classroom.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: So this week returning back to school.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, we had training for two days.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Half of our one day was all on SEL training.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: We had one day on, or one training.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean half our day, meaning two hours.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: Because then they had to go do things with it.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: We had half an hour on emotional check-ins.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, every year they administer a survey.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Most schools do this to our students about the climate of the building.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things that um students say is our teachers ask us how we are doing, but they don't feel like teachers necessarily care when they answer.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, which when I teach 150 kids, right?
17:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't have the time within a day.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: I ask every kid to say, like, how's it going?
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Or I try to check in with them.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: But if I spent every day checking in one-on-one with all 150 kids, my entire day would be gone.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you um, I wouldn't be able to teach my curriculum.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of kids, unless they are asking or they're like seeking um support, they can kind of float under the radar.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: And because we had had this survey data last year that our kids feel like we ask them, How are you?
18:15
SPEAKER_01: or how's it going?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: And then they don't feel like we care.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Our training was on like emotional check-ins and how do we facilitate emotional check-ins that are both meaningful and not time sucking.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, because in a class of 30 for 55 minutes, if I even if I spent one minute with every kid, I would have 20 minutes to teach my curriculum.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's such a hard place to put you guys in to be emotionally attentive to everybody, but also simultaneously teach.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: And then if they have any teaching-related questions, also attend to those as the only teacher in the room sometimes.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: I feel like the expectations that are placed on teachers oftentimes are unrealistic.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: And I just wish they were highlighted more often so that we could find some kind of middle ground.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: In the sense of like, we did that and we did de-escalation, right?
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Which is like the flip side of that is we all have kids who come in on a daily basis frequently, who are escalated, whether that is sadness, that is anger, that is anxiety, that is the competition that comes along with being a teenager.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, how do we de-escalate them from this point of whatever they're going through down till they can be a functioning member within our educational system and not crash out.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Then we spent an hour and a half doing that, in which they taught us about the brain.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, okay.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: So it is getting more educational over time.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: It's but like you and I would know, right?
19:36
SPEAKER_01: The way to learn about it is not necessarily to sit in an hour and a half training and have them talk to me for an hour and a half of like this is what you do, because also every every situation is different, right?
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Like they're a kid can come in super angry, super whatever about something.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: And sitting there and going, Okay, in that training, they told me I should say this.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna work, right?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't sound like a scripted robot.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: I can't be like, okay, Erica, you are upset.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Tell me about it.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: No, like that's just not first of all, my students would be like, What the hell is your problem?
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, that is not how you speak.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: And second of all, like that's just it's not beneficial to them.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: So there's also a lot of relationship building that has to go between student, teacher, I would assume the same client and therapist.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you can learn like how to de-escalate them.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: And so where the school system is trying to get is we gotta, we gotta teach everybody everything.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: But be by teaching everyone everything, they're not really getting into like how do you do it and how do you do it in a way that's like not offensive, right?
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Like if a kid came in crying and I was just like, oh, why are you crying?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that kid, like that's gonna set them off even worse, right?
20:45
SPEAKER_01: But like if they come in crying and I know the kid, I can pull them aside and say, like, hey, like, do you want to talk about it?
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes I'll write a note and just be like hallway and I'll just set it on their desk and they can make that choice themselves.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I want to go the hallway and talk about it, or they know, like, no, or they'll write back, like, can I stay after class and talk?
21:01
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yep, we'll talk then.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: The authenticity piece has got to be the hardest part for teachers because I imagine there are days that you are at your wit's end and you do care about the kids, but you don't have time to maybe be that caring, responsive adult while also teaching and grading and dealing with parent emails and whatever else is on your plate that day.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: You know very well that this year was not a great year.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: And uh definitely have been like, please go literally anywhere else.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: You should not be in my room right now.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, but you're my safe space.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but you're not my safe space right now.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: I am at my wit's end and I cannot have another body in this room that I'm responsible for.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: I need you to go somewhere else because I can only do what's on my plate right now.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's hard to tell 15, 16, 17 year old children as an adult who they think that as adults teachers have their legs put together.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: When we say, like, we can't, we're not there, they don't understand that sometimes.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's also sometimes.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: That like, at least within my classroom, within my four walls of proximity, what I can control of like how I'm very on honest with my kids.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, nope, I can't do this today.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: This is where I'm at mentally.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: This is where I'm at.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I need you guys to meet me where I'm at.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they do, and sometimes I just give them the teacher look.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: No, I completely understand.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I think it's definitely a systemic issue that we have made progress on, but there's still a long way to go.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Much like therapists as a teacher, you guys have the same expectation, right?
22:32
SPEAKER_01: That people have access to you at all times.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Off the clock, on the clock.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: You should always respond to your emails.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: You should always be present for anybody who needs you.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: You should be able to do everything all at once.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: And anytime you can't, people look at you with this like questioning remark.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's just not fair or possible for any of us.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: If there is a new teacher who listens to this, when your contract is done, shut your laptop, log out of your email.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: It will still be there tomorrow.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna think in January, you should know your shit and you think it should be under control.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm in year 10 and I have students starting in three days, and I have nothing planned.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: That's the reality.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: The to-do list is always there.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: You will never be caught up on anything you ever want to do.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: There's there's 35 emails unread in my inbox.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: I looked at my school email today.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: It's a Saturday.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: I should not look at my school email, but I looked.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: 35 unread emails from Thursday.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Why?
23:29
SPEAKER_01: What is that important?
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I guess you can't say it's back to school thanks.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: It's all like, you know, be ready for this, be ready for this, be ready.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to know that until Thursday or Wednesday.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: New teachers, anyone.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: I it's not just teachers, teachers and therapists have the same thing, right?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Teachers though have a contract, and so it can be like, your contract ends, my contract ends at three o'clock by 3.05.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm off my email.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: It can wait till tomorrow.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: But it took me a long time to get there.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Let's be so for real.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: I was not that my first five years of teaching.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you get excited, right?
24:01
SPEAKER_01: You've worked so hard to be in this career.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: You want to take all the things on.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: It feels good to get the positive reinforcement for being the best teacher, for being the teacher that everybody can go to.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of reasons why I imagine somebody would choose that.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of pressure in the education system that you have everything figured out as a teacher.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: In reality, it really doesn't matter because it will never be perfect.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: And every day is a different day.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Even if this lesson, I taught the same thing like for years.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Even if that lesson hit last year and it was like the best lesson, I have a different group of kids in front of me this year.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: I have a different group of kids at this class period than the next class period.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: It's not going to hit the same way.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: That joke that was really funny and really got kids to remember something now is not going to matter in two hours to that next group of kids.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Me having the test graded today makes no difference in their life, their education, their world.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Makes no difference in my world if I get it done today or I get it done tomorrow.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Because it's it doesn't matter.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: I think that advice is directly transferable to new therapists as well.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: There will always be another thing if you don't have anything left to give.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: If you're salaried and you're off the clock, then be off the clock.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: If you're by the client that you see and you are exhausted, maybe just take the time and recoup later and do your notes.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: We're never gonna be able to do it all.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes that's just the reality of doing your best to work in an imperfect system.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: If you think that you can get it all done, that is like the number one way to get burnout.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Immediately.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: I know in education, and I'm gonna assume it's the same in therapy.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: It's like 80% of teachers quit within their five first five years.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: They don't make it past year five because of teacher burnout.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: The first five years you think, oh, I have to say yes to everything because I don't have seniority, I don't have longevity, I can get cut at any moment.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: And so you're like, oh, I have to say yes to everything.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: And that's when you're like, I have zero time to do anything outside of school.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's when your relationship suffers, when your mental health starts suffering.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's in reality when you're like the worst teacher you could possibly be because you're not meeting your needs in other places.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: I want to say that that's the same statistic, but honestly, I have no idea because I m don't have any space in my brain for that.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: But I imagine it is a similar concept, right?
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Burning super bright and super fast.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: It probably is vastly similar given how common those things are and how closely related being a teacher and being a therapist is.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: I know they're different fields.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: I think they pull a lot of the same expectations and pressures, however.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: I do want to take you on a roundabout though.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: To something a little bit lighter.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Because we've been friends for a long time now.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: For people who don't know, we met in college when we were both 18, and very different people than we are now as working professionals.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you mean by that, but okay.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: My 18 and 30-year-old us, very different.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, drastically.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: But I am curious, because I guess you have been my friend through a lot of different phases of life.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: And some would call those eras.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Look at you coming in real tight with the Taylor Swift reference.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Is it weird now that you have a close friend who is a therapist?
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Weird?
27:16
SPEAKER_01: No.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: How do I say it in not a way that sounds shitty?
27:20
SPEAKER_01: No, say it authentically.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: No, like there are times when Erica and I have standing Thursday night phone calls.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: I schedule my day.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: I schedule my time, my week around.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Erica's calling me at 8 p.m.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: tonight.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, I gotta make sure I'm ready for Erica's phone call on Thursday nights.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, and we we catch up about our week.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: This is what's going on, like blah, blah, blah.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: There are definitely times when either one of us will have to say the other one needs to not be the therapist's friend.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes I want to rant to you about this shitty thing that happened at work.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: And let me tell you about what this one kid did and how it got under my skin or what this boy did, or what, you know, whatever's going on in my life.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I have to say, I need you to be my friend, not my therapy friend.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: You do the same with me, where you're like, I don't want your advice right now.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: I just want you to listen.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, not only do I want you to listen, I actively want you to talk shit with me most of the time.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: You're like, no, actually, I want you to say terrible things.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I understand the right answer.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: And it's more enjoyable if we can hate this thing together.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: For the record, I almost always am the one that's like, well, have you thought about and she's like, no, I'm not thinking about actually.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Actually, I just want to talk shit.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, I wholeheartedly believe when I'm not a therapist, I'm not a therapist, right?
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I walk out those doors and I feel like I am a usual version of myself.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: It's a mix.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: I think people reference it, or I've heard people reference it to you before of like you're having a conversation with somebody and they'll say, Well, why don't you ask Erica about that?
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Because she's a therapist, and you're really good at it.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And I really appreciate it that you're like, Well, she's not my therapist and she's not your therapist, so shut up.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: But not everybody does that.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: And I imagine it probably has to get annoying for you sometimes because you're like, Yes, she's a therapist, and I've watched her puke outside of so many frat houses.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: I often like, you think you think she's a professional right now?
29:09
SPEAKER_01: You think we're you think we're professionals right now?
29:12
SPEAKER_01: We're not professionals right now.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: We are unhinged feral rats right now.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know who you think we are.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: I think both of those versions of people can exist.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Which, you know, sometimes is the ridiculousness of like going on a girls' weekend trip to some ridiculous place.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I know sometimes we like to bop around Disneyland together or your favorite girls' trip of all time.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Shut up.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: The time we went to fork.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Terrible experience.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: Not terrible experience, but loved it.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing like a cardboard cutout watching you sleep.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: I forgot about that until you just said it.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Remember when I put it in the shower?
29:51
SPEAKER_01: That was funny.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: I did love that.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was fun.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: That was fun.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: It was a fun time.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: It's a good heart attack to start the day.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Just open the shower curtain and there's Did I have Jacob?
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Edward?
30:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember which one was in my Patrick.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Jacob.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Obviously the less preferable one.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Taylor Watner?
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Did I hit a soft spot?
30:09
SPEAKER_01: I actually hate Twilight.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't care about either of them, but like I was about to say, have you ever even read the books?
30:14
SPEAKER_01: When I was in fifth grade, still counts.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Did you see they just came out with Poptart's buzzballs?
30:21
SPEAKER_01: I will not be trying that.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: I hear you say that, but we'll see.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Everybody loves a good buzz ball from time to time.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: And by that I mean no one ever.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Zero out of ten would not recommend.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: I would rather drink a corsolite.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Really?
30:35
SPEAKER_01: That's what you were gonna throw at some trash?
30:38
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you've just offended a bunch of people.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: For the record, a corsolite's great in the water.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: A bushlight is what you were searching for?
30:45
SPEAKER_01: A warm bushlight out of a fra boy's pocket.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Or a francia out of the bag.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Never did butt.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: Really?
30:53
SPEAKER_01: You didn't miss out.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: It was disgusting.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Definitely how a lot of people got strep throat.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't do that.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: Not speaking from experience in any context.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: No, never.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: We were professional.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Never drank when we were in college.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Highly professional, because drinking under the age is illegal, and I would not recommend it to anyone for the case of brain development, which I was vastly aware of at the time.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: With your human development degree.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: That would be my undergraduate degree.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Listen, I highly retained maybe about as much as you did from your psych quiz on early human development.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: But I made it through, and it was always a stepping stone to get where I was going.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: I need everyone to know that's like, how did you get all those questions wrong?
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I had a 4.0.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: That makes it even better.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: I am prelated on psychology.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: But it's been.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: We graduated college.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh God, don't say it.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, we started college 10 years ago.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: Nope, 13 years ago.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Dwell.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Last week was our 13-year anniversary.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, friendiversary.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Friendiversary.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: 13 years.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: So cute.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Almost friends longer than we weren't friends.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: I meant like before we met each other, not.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: I see what you're saying.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: We met at 18.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: We've been friends for 13 years.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: That's almost the same age.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Basically.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: All the same things.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: How do you celebrate a friend diversary?
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh we go to the haunted farmers market next weekend.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: I love a good haunted farmers market.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And we celebrate on my rooftop the weekend after.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's for your birthday, that's different.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of celebrating birthdays, because I know we have polar opposite views.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think you hate a birthday celebration so much?
32:33
SPEAKER_01: I hate any attention on myself.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Have you always been that way?
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: What child are you in order?
32:40
SPEAKER_01: Technically?
32:41
SPEAKER_01: I know the weird family dynamic.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Technically, I'm the eldest daughter.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm the eldest and the only daughter, and then I have two younger brothers.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: If you include my step siblings that I claim, then I have an older brother, me, and then two younger brothers.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: So I'm the older middle child.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: But how old were you when the step siblings came along?
33:05
SPEAKER_01: So I was five when my youngest or my middle my next younger brother was born.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: I want to say seven or eight when my older brother moved in with us.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: So they've been your family forever.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: I consider all three of my brothers my brothers.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: If people ask how many siblings I have, I always say I have three brothers, one older and two younger.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: Technically, my older brother is my stepbrother.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: It does seem fitting, though, that as a middle child, you would not want a lot of attention.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of right the classic family psychology.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got a lot of attention as the only girl, as being an only child for six years of my life, right?
33:43
SPEAKER_01: I was in elementary school by the time my brothers were born.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: So you're saying you got it all and it was too much.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: I hated every second of it.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Also the only girl.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: So, like, right.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Dress up and all of the things were like me.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No, I don't want to do any of those things.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm a teacher, which means eyes are on me all the time.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: All day, every day.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: It is an interesting transition to really hate that.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: You're like literally doing a presentation every day.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't I don't present.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do, I do.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: There's a PowerPoint every single day.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I do present, I do get up and do my drum, but I hate every second of the kids looking at me.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, look at the screen.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Don't why are you looking at me?
34:15
SPEAKER_01: You've just painted a picture for me of like a teacher in the dark, sitting in the back in a chair with like a little laser pointer to the front.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: I did for a while.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Not that, but I did have a tablet that like connected to the board, and I would like sit with the kids and teach from sitting with them and like write on my tablet that projector on the board.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: It was great.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: One, because then they're not watching me, they're watching what I'm doing on the screen, which sometimes they just stare at me and I'm like, you're not looking what I told you to write down.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: You're not looking at the words on the screen.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Stop looking at me.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: And also the power dynamic of me like sitting at a desk with the kids, yeah, or handing my laptop over to the kids and be like, you write it.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Like you know what you're doing.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Changed the things.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: I imagine that maybe enables participation to no longer be the person who is constantly like, I know everything, and I'm standing up here in front of you all the time.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: Psychologically speaking, they say educationally, the person who's doing the talking is doing the thinking.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, if I'm the one talking the entire time, the kids are they're just obediently copying what I say, all right?
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Like their engagement is 100% obedient.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, she wants me to write this down, so I'm gonna write it down.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And then if I asked you, what did you just write down?
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're gonna be like, I I don't know.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: I just wrote what you wrote down.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: I I didn't think about it at all.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: So if it's like, oh, I can give it to you guys, I can go sit with you guys and you guys can explain it to me, and then I write what you tell me, then they're like, at least, I don't know, some percentage of the kids, not every kid, but like I've some kids then suddenly are like, oh, I gotta do some thinking and maybe I'll learn something.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: That's the goal.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: That sentence perfectly captures it, right?
35:47
SPEAKER_01: And I wish all professionals really thought that way.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: If you are lecturing at somebody, they're tuning out.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: There's no doubt about that.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: And regardless of what profession you're in, if your whole goal is to get the other person to engage, you cannot speak at them.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: No.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: In fact, you have I feel like you have to be asking questions regularly.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: You have to give them a chance to demonstrate, and you have to establish that strong sense of like mutual respect and appreciation to really get them to want to participate.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Like one of our trainings this week was about there's four quadrants in education, and there's like the ones that have a lot of context to no context, a lot of rigor to no rigor, right?
36:25
SPEAKER_01: So, like, do I give you a lot of context clues?
36:27
SPEAKER_01: Do I give a lot of pictures?
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Do I give a lot of whatever?
36:29
SPEAKER_01: To like, no, I'm just standing up and lecturing at you and there's nothing written on my board.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: And then am I asking like simple questions like, is this right?
36:36
SPEAKER_01: What do I do next?
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Where do I put the five versus like, you know, more rigorous questions?
36:41
SPEAKER_01: So there's like these four quadrants.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember who did it.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: I didn't write down the guy's name that we were talking about.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: But there was like the difference between there was quadrant like B and quadrant D.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: And quadrant D was like lecture, independent thought.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: And we all were like, there's a time and place for that, right?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: There is a time and place for you to just shut up and listen to someone talk to you and you take notes because sometimes we're quick, we gotta learn, or like you need to watch a YouTube video and learn something yourself.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you're about to fix your, I don't know, your fridge.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Like you gotta like just watch it and listen and be able to listen to something and then go do it.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: But then also, like, where do most of us actually do our learning?
37:18
SPEAKER_01: It's like, where do we have hands-on things?
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Where are we actually like engaging?
37:22
SPEAKER_01: There's pictures, there's a way for me to check in regularly.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Am I doing the right thing, not waiting till my project's done?
37:29
SPEAKER_01: And then you realize, oh shit, I just made my entire project completely wrong because I didn't understand what was going on.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: There wasn't a check-in.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Or you just don't have the skills to learn in multiple different styles.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that sounds like a nightmare.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: I want to take a right turn this time.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Not left.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: No, not left.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not a hard turn, it's a really soft turn.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Just veering to the right.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: But as a teacher, what does self-care look like for you?
37:57
SPEAKER_01: And how does it help you kind of be ready and prepared to tackle whatever is thrown at you?
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Because it sounds like it's a little bit of everything every day.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, your face is really good in this moment.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: I wish people could see the hesitation that just came across your face.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: Did I just call out a weak spot?
38:13
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: No, not a weak spot.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm thinking like my self-care or yes.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my self-care.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Is time spent with my friends outside of school.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Whether that is school friends, like my my group of girls, like we we had the summer.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: We had summer off.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: For the record, teachers don't get paid for the summer.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, everyone who says, Oh, you guys get paid for the summer, no, we are contracted.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: We are contracted for 182 days.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: They split our pay among 12 months.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, while we get paid in the summer, we are not paid for the summer.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: We are technically unemployed during the summer.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: So, just for everyone who's like, oh, teachers get the summers off and they get paid for it.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: No, we don't.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: We are contracted for 180 something days.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm 182.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Some districts are 186, and they take your salary and split it among 12 months.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: So the summer is like the number one place I get all my self-care because that is when I am not checking my email the last day of school.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: I usually check my email for about two days after last day of school of is there anything I forgot to do to like end the year?
39:12
SPEAKER_01: And then I promptly do not check my email again until about two weeks before school starts again.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Unless I know there's something coming up.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: For instance, I'm a department head, so I'm in charge of some summer things.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: If we hired anyone new in my department, so I had to be available via email every two weeks in case someone quit and we needed to hire someone new.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, I hope that doesn't happen all that often.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Depends on the school, it depends on what's going on.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: Right now there's a lot of budget cuts.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: So people move a lot.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, my department was fine this year, but um other departments weren't.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Summer, like you are not paid in the summer to work.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Don't be working in the summer unless you have any reason to.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Um Okay, so that's kind of your like harsh reset.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: It is like summer is harsh reset.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: I have 90 days to do whatever unhinged thing I want.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: This year it was watching World Cup with my friends or soccer with my friends all day, every day.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: What about your day-to-day or even your week to week?
40:07
SPEAKER_01: During the school year, it looks very different.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: During the school year, for me, it's like getting out.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: I have a dog, so getting out walking the dog, like non-negotiable.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: I go home, I take the dog on a walk, work out, get that stuff done.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: That's my big one.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that counts.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: I also am like a very big proponent about dates with your friends during the school year.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: I know Erica will attest to this.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: During the school year, I want no one to say my name ever again.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, never say, never, never talk, try to talk to me during the school year.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm terrible, but she's really good at being like, okay, we're gonna plan something next month, and you're putting it on your calendar right now.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's a month from now.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm not planning that far ahead.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm always planning that far ahead.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: She knows this, but I have not mentally planned that far ahead.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: It's on my calendar.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Nope, you're putting it on your calendar right now, and we're hanging out in six weeks.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's six weeks from now.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: We got we got time to plan.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, if it's not done now, it's not gonna happen.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: How definitely not?
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Um that's most teachers I know.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, there are some teachers who are type B, can pick something up last minute.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm not that person.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: So intentionally planning time to be off the clock and be with your friends and be out doing something, I think is also really important because as teachers, we will make every excuse to stay at school or to clock out and go home and then caught uh like rot on our couch, which I also do.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: I think everybody does a little bit of that from time to time.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: You're also leaving out a big one right now because I know that you're an avid reader.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: I haven't read a book all summer.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: Actually, I was once you read I finished one book this summer.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: How many books did you read last summer?
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Last year I read 45 books within 2025.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: This year I have read 23.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: Like I have read.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: But the summer I finished one book.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: Maybe two this whole summer.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that counts as a valid form of self-care.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't consider self-care right now because I'm not doing it, right?
41:51
SPEAKER_01: You saw my book yesterday.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: It's I haven't I haven't touched it since I moved in three weeks ago.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Your bookshelf that I saw yesterday, where you have them in order based on when you're gonna read them.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: But I the book that's sitting on the couch, which it used to be a morning ritual for me, and it will probably start again next week.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Of I wake up every morning on the weekends, I get a cup of coffee and I sit on the couch and read for an hour.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: On the weekdays, I make a cup of coffee in my travel mug, but I don't drink it because I don't drink it till I get to school.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why, but I read on the couch for 30 minutes.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I did every morning.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: And then every night I read on my Kindle until I go asleep.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm always re-reading three books.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: I guess that's not true.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: I've audiobooked the summer.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: So I guess I have read the summer.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: That counts.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: It also just sounds like a nice way to really wind down, right?
42:37
SPEAKER_01: Nobody needs anything from you.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: You just get to kind of escape into this world.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: What is your reading recommendation of the summer?
42:45
SPEAKER_01: The books that I had read this summer.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: I got really into off campus, which is based off of book.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: It's based off the deal.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like a rom-com hockey.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, I considered it heated rivalry, but for straight.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's cute, it's cute.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: It's not great, but it's cute.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: So I read the first one in um 48 hours.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: And I went to the bookstore and bought the next three because I was like, I gotta read it.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: And then I haven't read them.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: It's a work in progress.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: I own them.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: So I will.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: When you said that, it just immediately made me think of did you ever watch the Disney Channel original movie Ice Princess?
43:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I watched everyone two years ago.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: I watched every decom.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: So yes, you're saying it's the adult version of Ice Princess.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kind of.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's good.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: It's good.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: And then also audiobooking, rate reading all the Avatar books because six comes out next month now and comes out in October.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think I've ever heard of those.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: A court of Rose and Thorns, Thorns and Roses, Thorns and Roses.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: I have to Aquatar, not Rot.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: I actually don't love them that much.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Hot take is I have read them all physically and now have listened to them all.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm on this re-listening to the last book before the sixth lunch.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: And I've pre-ordered the sixth and seventh one.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: But I don't love them.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: I actually hate Fera.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Hot take.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: I hate the main character.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: She's so annoying.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Is it like watching a dumpster fire?
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to see it through.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: No, people love them.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: People like love these books.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: I just don't like the main character.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: But I've read them all.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: I started with the book club, so I was like, I gotta read the whole first one.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: And then once I've read the first one, I was like, I gotta read the second one.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: I have to complete a series if I start it, unless I like hate it.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: And I don't hate it.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: I just don't like her.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: So I have now read all five and listened to all five and pre-ordered the sixth book that comes out on like the 20 something of next month.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for not loving something, it sounds like you're deep in the lore.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: I have not people who are into the fandom.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Um will be like, well, have you listened or read Throne of Glass?
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Or have you read Crescent City?
44:53
SPEAKER_01: And my answer is no.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: And I know that they all connect somehow, and everyone says you have to do all of them, but there's like eight and eight books in the other series and like four in the other one.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't that's so many.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: I can't read 17 books by next month.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: No, that's really intense.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: I read three books at the same time.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I could just commit to one and probably could get them done at a time, but with what time though?
45:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the same time that I spend reading all three books my morning book, my evening book, and my audio book.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: You got me there.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Or if I just committed to one um during those three times.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: But also, it doesn't sound like you love it.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you need to finish it.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: And I can get that.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've been in a similar space before where I've started.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm usually more of a show person in that, where I've started a show that I don't love, but I'm invested now.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I fully need to see it through.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: Like uh, oh gosh.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I want to marry Harry, I guess is my most recent example of that.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: It was the trashiest trash TV of all time.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: And I was two episodes in and I was like, where's it gonna go?
45:53
SPEAKER_01: How's it gonna happen?
45:55
SPEAKER_01: Why is this happening?
45:56
SPEAKER_01: Didn't he like marry one of them and then find his new girlfriend on their honeymoon?
46:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was bad.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: He he did them real dirty and it was all about healing, but then not.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: It's not my recommendation of the week.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: Also, I realize we could yap forever.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna take you to my favorite part of this podcast, which is what was your good thing of the week?
46:22
SPEAKER_01: I want everyone to know before this started.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: I made Erica list all the good things that have happened this week for me to think of one that was a good thing.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Because that's just not who I am.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm not an optimist.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm realistic.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm not optimistic, I'm realistic.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Um so we decided.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, you gave me lots of options, and the one I decided is that officially well, that's not true.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: There's that one bag.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's not talk about that one bag that's under the bed.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: Officially moved into my new place.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: Everything is organized and cleaned, with the exception of needing a couple furniture things.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I need a coffee table.
46:56
unknown: What?
46:56
SPEAKER_01: I like the stool with the cardboard.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: With the cardboard box that the dog really wanted.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: Well and he knew you were the weak link.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: I am notorious for spilling on myself.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: And he realized you were dropping cracker crumbs that if he laid right underneath you, they would land on him.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like uh a built-in Roomba.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Like that's true.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: So that would be a positive.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: I could say going back to work is a positive, but a 5 a.m.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: alarm after not having one for 90 days kicking my butt.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: I do like school.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: I do like teaching.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: I love teaching.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I love having a routine.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: So once that routine's back, I know I will like it.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: But these first two weeks are the worst.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: I also hate icebreaking icebreaker games.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: And so actually, the first two weeks of school are my least favorite two weeks of school.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: I know that's a hot take, but I hate having to learn all my kids.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: Give me them in two weeks when I know all their names and we've established some norms.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: And then this is golden.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: You hating icebreakers sell uncharacterized.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: I opted out of I opted out of part of my training this week when they told you to go find a partner with the same shoes that you have on.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: And I looked at my friends I was sitting with and I went, not gonna be me.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: And then I sat on the floor and doodled for 15 minutes when we were supposed to be doing something.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I didn't know you could opt out of that.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: What are they gonna do?
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Fire me?
48:17
SPEAKER_01: Just tell me what I need to know and get me out of here.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you did your best, and that's what counts.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: And I really think that that just means it is what it is.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: And with that, we'll see you next week.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Not you, but Tara.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Nami.