Latest / AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers / Episode 032 Workflow Options: BK Fastlane

Transcript

Episode 032 Workflow Options: BK Fastlane · AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Practical, no-nonsense guidance to help attorneys put AI power to work in their practice right now.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Lawyers are being deluged with AI software.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Established legal tech vendors are touting AI-powered reboots of their flagship products.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, hardly a day goes by without pundits on LinkedIn and Reddit cataloging dozens of new offerings from legal AI startups.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And nowhere is this revolution more apparent than in the world of consumer bankruptcy.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: By the time bankruptcy lawyers gather in Orlando for NACPA's annual convention in April 2027, I expect we'll see at least half a dozen startups, along with the familiar bankruptcy software companies, offering shiny new AI products designed to transform the practice.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: One of those AI pioneers is Matt McCune.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Matt is a highly regarded Colorado bankruptcy lawyer, a previous guest on the podcast, and now a legal technology entrepreneur.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's developed BK Fastlane, an AI-driven platform designed to help bankruptcy lawyers and their clients navigate one of the most challenging parts of the practice: collecting documents, organizing financial information, and getting cases ready to file.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Today, we're going to get a first look at BK Fastlane, explore what it can do, and hear Matt's vision for what he hopes will become an entirely new way to manage a consumer bankruptcy practice.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a special episode of AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Ron Dresher.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Heather is away this week.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited to be having a demo available for brand new consumer bankruptcy software that has been created by Matt McCune, who uh gave us an appearance several months ago.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he's ready to show the world a brand new product.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna share our screen, and this is going to be a great opportunity to get a first look at uh at Matt's product, which I believe is bankruptcy Fastlane.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, BK Fast Lane is the product, it's the first product of the company, BK Fast Pass.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be rolling out a never-ending line of products designed for uh consumer bankruptcy.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: All right, thanks, Rod.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, really appreciate the opportunity uh to be here and share this.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is a big moment for us.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, BK Fastlane is the culmination of this dream I've had for decades, really.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: No one has tested more bankruptcy software than this guy.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is really version one of phase one of this vision where we are gonna help the consumer bankruptcy attorney handle all aspects of the workflow from first contact to case closing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's jump in real quick here.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so this is the what the consumer sees.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll show you in a separate pitch here when we can kind of get rid of this screen.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is what the debtor sees after they've been onboarded as a lead into the law firm.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing they would be prompted to do is create an account.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, really, what we're doing is we're creating the secure debtor portal.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is all in the cloud, it's highly encrypted.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we're getting all of the debtors' PII.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we we spent a lot of time, effort, and money getting this thing very, very secure.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is Sarah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're using Sarah in our firm kind of as the AI onboarding agent.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: This can also be a video of the attorney.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still working with some of that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: It looks a little wonky if you're not using one of the pre-built AI agents.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: She looks a lot better.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let me let me see if you Ron, can you hear this?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Were you able to hear Sarah there?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's my AI intake guy.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so let's log in here.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I have created, well, we're bait, we're in beta test right now.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of accounts getting created in the fast lane intake.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So let's log in to so this is basically like I am the debtor here going through the journey.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, there's a multi-factor authentication for everything now these days.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the debtor's logged into the intake, and the intake is branded to the firm.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's obviously going to be McCune legal.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: For Ron, it would be Dressure Law if he was still in practice, that sort of stuff.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can see the status bar up here.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: In each page, you have Sarah kind of giving you a little information.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, here's what we're looking for here.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Here's some tips and tricks on how to fill this intake out.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: We do have some required documents.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna upload, and this is not real, none of this stuff are real documentation, but this is a dummy ID that we created.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a social security card.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then we we kind of ask for documents as they work through the intake as needed, right?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: It would make sense to get the taxes, the driver's license.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And some of these things are required.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: It won't let them move forward.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Matt, what's going on here?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let let's let's start from the real world, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Client.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Client's got problems.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, has the client already contacted your office and set up an appointment to go through this?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: This would be the really the way I do it, and obviously we can kind of there's flexibility with how we do it, is I do the intake call, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: They fill out a very basic intake form.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then if we decide to move forward, then we send them the email with the link.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, fill out the form.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: It would be a good idea to gather these documents before you come to fill out the form so it makes it an easier journey.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some people may want, you know, a lot of people are doing paid intakes now, so maybe they've already paid a little bit for that sort of stuff.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: But in my office, yes, this debtor has already had that initial phone intake.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: What do you cover in the phone intake?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I so we have a really basic intake form that will be built into this product eventually.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, household size, income.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to get all the basic questions that I would need answered so I can, within about 30 minutes, give them all the info they need.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Are you a seven?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Are you a 13?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Does bankruptcy even make sense?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Get all their questions answered about the process.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So basic, basic questions assets, debts, income, expenses, all, you know, if you got two minutes to get questions from debtors, what are the questions you would ask?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we ask.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then we do the call.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you answered my question that I hadn't actually gotten a chance to ask, which is how long is that very, very initial contact with the client?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm asking that because there's a lot of different philosophies about what that should be.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've discovered is once you sign on to a software choice, you're also signing into their philosophy about how the intake and then and how the information collection should should proceed.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to give our viewers an opportunity to really understand how that process works kind of organically.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we want to be flexible.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like within my office, I now have two paths basically.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um before that, before anyone contacts them, they have to fill out the intake form.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't take more than five minutes, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're not even willing to do that step, I'm not the right firm for them.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: If it looks to me, based on that intake, as a basic case, that they get one path and they do get a free consultation.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's likely it may not be with me, it may be with another attorney with the firm.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: If I can tell from the intake, hey, this thing's a mess.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, my office is getting referred a lot of messes, because as you know, in our world, shit rolls uphill, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everyone's cherry picking right now.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm one of the unfortunate souls that's on this list of like, hey, this is a mess.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Call one of these people.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm now charging those people for a 45-minute consultation.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's 250 bucks.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: They don't get the link to schedule the call unless they make that payment.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: But but I really I only send that to people that it's obvious there's some complicated business stuff or or or something messy.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and usually you can tell.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we don't nail it every time.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I never want to charge kind of the run-of-the-mill bankruptcy case for people just to find out what their options are.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I never have done it that way.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I only pivoted to paid consults for the more complex stuff a couple months ago.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it is working, and it's also acting as a natural filter.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because what was happening is I get these long calls and I'm like thinking, well, geez, man, I'm giving away some really valuable advice here.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Are they just going to take that elsewhere?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got two paths.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what I'm excited about, the way we're gonna build this software and the way we're gonna work with bankruptcy attorneys, is in the very early stages, you know, our initial partners, our founding firm partners, are gonna have a lot of say in what they want the software to do.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a single data point.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've been doing one thing for 25 years at a very high level, but other people are gonna have other good ideas as well.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and we want to we want to build this really around the way that we actually do our practice.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's look at this screen.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And why don't you walk us through?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is an online intake form, is the way to way to think about it, but built entirely, customized, and curated entirely for the consumer bankruptcy debtor's experience, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, never never existed to this level before we built this.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, within a couple minutes, Sarah's gonna give you here's what we're asking for on this screen.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can fill it out while she's blabbing.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are mandatory questions that the debtor's not allowed to move past the screen unless they fill out some of these questions, which is kind of nice because the way I historically had done it was with a Google form or a PDF that they, you know, they submit the form, they didn't fill anything out.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, basic info, household size, contact info, date of birth.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's obviously not a real social security number, prior bankruptcy, dependent size.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they do have to fill out, they do have to submit a driver's license and a social security verification document.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're now starting, you know, we're we're also busy, those of us that are doing this at a very high level are overwhelmed, frankly.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'm using the intake form as a bit of a filter.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you're not willing to gather some basic docs and upload them, well then, you know, sorry, I can only hold your hand so far.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I can't do everything for the debtor.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I've uploaded so so here's a question.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: When let's look at the you've got these four uh document rectangles, driver's license corner, social security and tax resource.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So how do they furnish that?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do they just drag it right onto that and that's good enough?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or how do they actually get the docs into you?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I just deleted one, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So so see how this these tabs are filled.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can see there's a document.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just click on the tab and then it takes me to the desktop.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm just from there, I'm just gonna basically upload the doc that way.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So then you it takes to the client to their the file picker in their device.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can they do this on a phone or an iPad?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there will be a mobile version available as well, which is becoming incredibly important because frankly, a lot of our clients don't have computers.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's gonna be a mobile option.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to upload PDFs on a mobile.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I never do it, so but but a lot of our clients do.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So they're a little bit more advanced than me in that aspect.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got the basically step one is done, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a little tracking bar.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: We've got eight steps here.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Step one is done, and then I'm gonna save and continue.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so as it saved the documents, it also was doing some analysis in the background.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna show you later what that looks like.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: So so now we're moved on to the next status bar.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're now on income, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're not, I want to see something I I that I I left off, and it might be a minor thing, but you know, I'm a UI wonk.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like when the client screws up the form?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: How do how do you how do they deal with that and then get back on track?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go back.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: So what if they didn't tell us about number of people in the household, right?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the field says required.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna go submit, they're gonna please fix the highlighted field.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they got to come back and find it and be like, oh, okay.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: It tells them what they missed, it it highlights it in red.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I we can't make it any more clear.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you have to fill this out.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: But we're not letting them move forward.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we have had some big conversations, you know, behind the scenes about the UIU accident.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for bringing that up.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're trying to do this balancing act between, you know, making it really easy for the debtor and inviting to fill this thing out, to upload all their documents, but not so easy that they don't give the info that the law firm needs to make good decisions.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And without this household size checked, our AI can't instantly analyze what the median income is and all that sort of stuff because there's an instant analysis that the attorney can get and send to the debtor if they choose to do that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that there's a cardinal rule in our business the AI will never take an action without the attorney approving it, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: But but it will suggest it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: It'll say, hey, here's the suggestion.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Would you like to send this report to the debtor?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's pretty obvious when they don't complete the form.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: But but it but there will be hard stops where the debtor's like, look, I can't move on or whatever.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, that's the sort of thing where it's like, well, look, if you can't figure this out.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Another question, you know, we all act as if we want the clients to do as much as they can uh from their end to make the whole process move more smoothly.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a lot of lawyers who like holding the client's hands during this process and having that interaction.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Can this process be lawyer-facing so that they can fill everything out while the client's on the phone?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now they'd have to have access to the documents, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: You'd have to act, you'd have to have access to the digital documents.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna be allowed to move forward with the process without those documents.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: But sure, the hypothetical, hey, you know, email me all your stuff.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do the intake on the phone and upload it as we go.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the lawyer can always go through.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and obviously, if there's documents that that don't get uploaded, and I'm gonna show you that when we get to the attorney facing CRM workspace sides, there's the option for the law firm to simply upload it on their own.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And there's some automated follow-up with the debtor that's pretty cool.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, but you're right.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there is that balancing act between, you know, making it easy on the client, but also getting enough info to move the thing forward.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, one rule that we have in here is we never ask for a document if we don't need it.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what I had before was this long list of documents on a PDF where it was like, hey, look, I need all this stuff, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, why do I need a mortgage statement if they don't own a house?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I need pay stubs if they're not employed?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it was, it's just the way we always did it, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a checklist, it is what it is.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Here, you don't see any document required for the income section yet.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: But if I'm employed, now I want your pay stubs, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I can, and again, these are you know dummy pay stubs that you know, you know, you and I know how we I did this.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just upload those into there.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then certain fields are required.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say I'm a lawyer working for this McCune guy and Boulder.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then this is cool too.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you know, we we auto-populate the address.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're really trying to make it-I love that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying to make the user experience as good as we possibly can.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the great, like, this has taken a long time to build out.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: In in full disclosure, I shit canned uh the first version that came out.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't, I tried to tweak it, I tried to correct it, it just wasn't good enough.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And in the meantime, that's when Claude Cowork came out, and I was like, oh my God, I can actually build it myself, and then we can get with our Indian development partners to make it look as good as possible.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, but it's the sort of thing that I want to never stop improving it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of our secret sauces, is because we're so specialized, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: We are we're well, I'm not doing anything else, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is not some vertical Clio program that kind of has to work for everybody.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is a high, you know, that would be horizontal, right?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're a highly specialized vertical software program that is only for one thing.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And because of that, we're gonna be able to specialize and curate so much of this experience.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So debtor comes through, tells us about income, and then no other employment, save and continue.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so now we're analyzing their pay steps, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: We're saving it, and there's some behind-the-scenes analysis going on with the AI.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, okay, assets.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do you own a house?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: If I own a house, great.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: We want a Zillow valuation.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I don't own a house, right?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: What's interesting, Ron, is when we built this out, we took a, you know, it was very methodical because, you know, as you get into the intake, and it is overwhelming, there's a lot of questions, and there's a reason for that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: This online intake matches completely to the schedules, the voluntary petitions to the sofa, right?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Where we're gonna take this is once this document gets submitted, eventually we're gonna be auto-populating all the schedules.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the way we've always done it, you know, the we get all the stuff and then the paralegal is looking at the PDF and all the docs on one side of the screen and filling out Jubilee or next chapter of best case on the other side.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like this extra step.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Why are we having to do that?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: The technology is now gonna allow us to auto-populate it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's gonna be confirmed by staff and confirmed by everyone, and the AI can confirm a lot of info for us.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: But we're gonna cut out that middle step, you know.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Boom.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Debtor submits it, the case is analyzed, the petitions are getting filled out.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: My goal, Ron, is to I want to make the consumer bankruptcy attorney the dentist, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: So dentist comes in and go ahead.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So here's here's a question.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: The initial release version of BK Fastlane, is that gonna have a petition and schedules preparation?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a three-phase build by design, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't want to overpromise, under deliver.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: No one gets fed more bullshit than the solo small firm attorney, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: We we all know that too well.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: The last thing I want to do is say, yeah, we're gonna give you the stars and the moons, and you get it, and you're like, and again, I want to build forward with feedback from our clients.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's three phases.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: The first phase, one, we we had to have a highly encrypted secure database.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're on Microsoft Azure Cloud, right?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's got to be really, you know, we got tax returns, social security stuff, all that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a ton of protections there.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: We we we needed to build the intake, and then we needed to build the first version of the CRM.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we call it the BK Fast Pass, BK Fast Lane workspace.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I'm gonna show you in in a minute.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, so that's version one, right?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: So where that journey begins at the client intake, creating that lead.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: It ends when all the documents have been submitted and approved, and now the case is ready for petition prep, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so, so then you wouldn't, we're not gonna tell people to leave Jubilee yet or whatever because we're really just not ready for that.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: The next phase is gonna be all the post-filing workflows, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the client communications, automated internal tasks, you know, calendaring, events, workflows, all the things that happen after case is filed.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Think how many contacts happen in there.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna automate as much as we possibly can.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then our third phase, which would close the loop, and we handle everything from first contact to case closing at that point, will be the electronic filing.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I think I mean you get the picture right of the intake, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'd like to move on to the the CRM side, which would be the attorney-facing side.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is that cool?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I and I agree.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have a good sense of of how your your product.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I have to say, it it really warms my heart to see that you have AI tools for practicing lawyers as a bookmark on your menu bar, not once, but twice.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Look at that, you're up there twice, Ralph.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our my heart is it it's overflowing with happiness.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: You did warn me that if I shared my whole screen, a lot of stuff was going to be available.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: It does happen.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but all right, let's go on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Into your CRM workspace.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So what we're now looking at is we're now looking at the law firm side.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the debtor's experience, right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's the debtor secure portal where they upload all their stuff.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, the law firm can do that for them phone in person if you're still doing it that way.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is, think about this as Clio, Practice Panther, Rocket Lawyer, whatever you want to call it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Except it's, you know, for me, I've been using Clio Grow, Lawmatics, Clio, Jubilee.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like my package is this five or six, you know, software walk together.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a mess.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: All this is going to live within one.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is no software that does everything that a law firm needs it to do.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not yet, buddy.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Not yet, buddy.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm building it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Only for bankruptcy, though.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Only for bankruptcy.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that is kind of like like Cleo couldn't do this, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: They wouldn't be able to, because they have to have 20 different practice areas that they live, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: We can do it because we're so specialized.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: All right, multi-factor, sorry, I have to have it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: It drives me crazy too, but this is the new world.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Things have to be secure.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So wait, wait, wait.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: One last one question about that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Can you get around multi-factor by having a pass key?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have we haven't built that yet.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if my tech gurus tell me that we can look, I'm always going to err on the side of caution when we're dealing with people's PII and all that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if if I I don't know the answer to that is true because that's above my pay grade.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: If if we if I become convinced that everything remains highly secure and it's an easier experience for the law firm to log in, of course, of course.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm not suggesting that you can.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think the pass keys a pain in the ass, to be honest.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, no, no, no, no.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Pass keys are the way to go.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you're on a phone or a device or if you're on your laptop where you have like your fingerprint or something.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of typing in your email and your password and having to come up with the password, all you do is you put in that biometric and you're in.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: What's the new thing that the bankruptcy court is now required?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is that not called a pass key?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Are you familiar with this?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: You need like a phone and you need like a Google author authorizer.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the authentication app.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: You need the authorizer app, which eventually you'll get used to.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: So here we so this is phase one of the BK Fastlane CRM workspace.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, the the phase one begins, you know, really at the client onboarding the intake through document review.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: So here's what you see.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've really we really have four stages within this phase.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: First stage would be a new leads created, but we haven't yet sent them the intake link for whatever.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So my wife is in here.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't sent her the intake.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in here, and these are all made up, by the way.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, this is all kind of testing stuff.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: So the the goal is that you're gonna move the client through these stages and get them to stage four, which is ready for petition prep, which really is the end of the journey in phase one.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say in that intake that I was just in, let's say that got submitted, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the the client went through, filled out all the info info, uploaded all the required docs.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Not everything's gonna be uploaded, and I'll show you how that happens.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so then now they're in stage three.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're in the intake inbox.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: They've submitted the packet and it needs to be reviewed.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I did get a task assigned to me.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Matthew McCune, right, submitted the stuff.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: We you need to take a look at that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go take a look at Matthew here.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a lead.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lead always has a contact, just like a matter has a contact.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's kind of the terminology we're all familiar with.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: A lead becomes a matter, et cetera.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So within the dash.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this is all populated by their intake.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: This, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it's populated by when you create the lead, but correct.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you're gonna see in here is pretty much when the intake was submitted, which was today, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So this thing, you know, I tested this one this morning and submitted it for our show here.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So the contact is Matt McCune.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm using my BK FastPass email, obviously.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: If I go look at the intake package, this is a summary of everything that got submitted: personal info, income, assets, debts.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: If I want all this in a single PDF, I click on a button and that creates the PDF that I would put on you know half of my screen while I'm going through my petition software preparing the case, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a PDF summary literally of all information submitted.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Documents, all right.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is where the magic is.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So this is super cool.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to really spend some time on this because this is where the real time saver is.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got an intake just got submitted to BK Fastlane from McCune Legal, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: These are the documents that got submitted right here.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: I need to review all these documents.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: AI will give me a suggestion.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it accepted it or maybe it rejected it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: So other things that are important is home base.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: My goal is to get all these documents into home base.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Once all the documents are into home base or they have been excused, the case is ready to go.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: So let's kind of work through it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let's look at the driver's license.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be some AI generated.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that's my real driver's license.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Look at that handsome guy.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I'm gonna accept that, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: AI says, yeah, that looks like a good driver's license.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to approve it and see how it moved over to home base.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right, here's another question.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want does the user, which could be the lawyer, could be uh paralegal, whomever paralegal, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: It does the user have to approve every document?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Even documents with high confidence.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: For now, absolutely.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's possible that as we we get into, you know, teaching uh, you know, the artificial intelligence more and more and more, we might decide, okay, hey, we're just gonna automatically accept these.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: For now, it's way too early to do that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't trust it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think anyone should trust it.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let's look at this.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: So the AI rejected it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this basically the AI said, hey, this doesn't look like a social security card.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's go look at it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably in this thing I created, right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, so this is obviously a dummy social security card I created for this purpose.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: What if it was really fuzzy?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: You couldn't read it or whatever.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can reject it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna ask, why is this document being rejected too fuzzy?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Please send again.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then I reject it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: So now it goes to the chase list.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: As I'm reviewing documents, I'm either accepting them, like I just approve it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the A in the AI, again, this is AI accepted, but a human has to accept them.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Bank statements we couldn't download, great.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna reject those.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Need six months, something to that effect, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: What happens down here is in to chase, we're gonna automatically follow up with them every morning.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you can set that those rules to a point as well.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: The idea is no one's having to call them and chase them down and say, hey, we're missing this, that, the other.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: They get rejected too fuzzy, they get that message.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the the debtor gets an email the following day that says, we're still missing these documents.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the link to upload this document.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: They would resubmit it, and then the the firm, the user, whoever's in charge, paralegal attorney, whatever, would then get a task.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you have new documents to review, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Or say, look, this debtor doesn't have bank statements, whatever.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to excuse that document.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need this mortgage statement.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they already say, or look, I can upload it automatically.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I have it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they emailed it.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to make it more difficult for anyone.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: We want to make it simple.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea is everything needs to get to home base, either approved or excused, right?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: The chase happens automatically.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: No one's actually having to call.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we're going to keep chasing the counseling class because we know we need that, right?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a question.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say as you're going through the documentation, you see something that maybe you need a little bit more documentation for.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: That that wasn't picked up by the AI.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a process for chasing down optional documents?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: You you can send a request.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: We want everything in the portal, right?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you can send a request to the debtor.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that can be customizable where you're like, hey, we want to see your divorce decree because I need to look at it, right?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: That sort of stuff.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Ideally, we're asking for almost everything automatically, but that's a great point.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's always going to be these things that are like, hey, we need this or whatever.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: We want how do you do how do you do that here?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't actually know at this point.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: You have requested.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you requested a document type.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: There it is, right?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you would request a document type, and then you would come in other and you would say divorce decree.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there it is.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not sure where it was.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I simply have added that to the chase list, right?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: So look, highly customizable.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Full disclosure, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Full disclosure.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: As we get rolling here, and obviously I tested McCune legal first, and then we're going to test it with our founding firm partners.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's going to be things that are like, hey, we need this.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be like, oh my God, great idea.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to build it, a template of it, which I'll be able to do instantly.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Send it to the attorney, be like, is this what you're talking about?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what we want.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: We have a meeting.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Does this make sense to have a build for all of our clients?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then I want that thing done in days.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to get this feedback loop.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I've been really working on in the last six months with India is how we get our feedback loop super fast.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Where a client has a good idea, I want that in my product instantaneously.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that so we've we've done the complete review.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now the case is not ready yet.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're still missing seven documents.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I can review and automatically send the follow-up, or I can just schedule it to go out the next day.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just say I'm like, yeah, great.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: I need these documents, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the link for the debtor to upload them in the portal.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Approve and send, it's done.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's out of sight, out of mind.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And now if I come back to my communications tab up here, I can see all the communications we'd had.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's the initial one, fill out the intake.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's the most recent one.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, these are the docs we're missing.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you got to have notes, right?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to take notes.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, the thing that we've become accustomed to, Ron, is we have these software patches where we're just kind of stacking all the stuff together, is you lose all this stuff in the handoff.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Even in internally within Cleo, when I go from Clio Grow to Clio Manage, I lose a ton of things.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's ridiculous.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's the same company.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I losing these things?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the way you know they kind of pack together these software packages.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because everything's in-house from first contact to case close, we're never going to lose anything.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And what we can automate, it's never going to end how we can just constantly be better, faster, more responsive.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, tasks.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Tasks kind of get automatically assigned.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, there's a document that got uploaded.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: You need to review it, et cetera, et cetera.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is cool.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: I want to show you the AI tab.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: So here's an AI intake summary, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: When that debtor uploaded taxes, bank statements, all this sort of stuff, things got instantly analyzed.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Means test, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're still missing your counseling class.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something we're going to constantly be building as well.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now it doesn't automatically get sent, right?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: This has to be approved to send to the client.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have other things.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: We have an instant means test analysis.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have a confidence score that we're, you know, based on the amount of documents, how confident is the AI that the information we're giving them is accurate.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have a complexity score for the case, you know, business, you know, divorce, you know, non-exempt assets, right?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as these boxes get flagged, the complexity score for the case climbs.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then so this was Matthew McCune.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Matthew McCune is still in here in stage three.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: When all documents get submitted, well, that's going to go to stage four.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: So here's one that's ready for petition prep.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And as I go to the documents, the reviews complete, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: We got everything we needed.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is where journey one ends, really phase one of the product.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Phase two, which is being built as we're speaking, this is the mock-up of that.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a way more involved CRM workspace where, again, we're trying to handle and automate as much as the consumer bankruptcy workflows, automations, communications, tasks, events as possible.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, NACPA gets a little shout out here.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: You always know when the NACPA next event is.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sign up for NACPA people if you haven't.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know if that discount code is still good, Ron?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's a discount code.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's good until the end of October.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And my guess is if there was a flurry of lawyers on November 2nd that said, I gotta join NACPA before I vote tomorrow.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I could talk to them and they'd be In my opinion, 2027 is going to be the most exciting year in the consumer bankruptcy world since 2005.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like, look what's happening at the leadership in NACPA.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I mean, we have the godmothers taking leadership positions, you know, Jenny, Tara, that group.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: These these people are amazing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the what we're about to see come online, in my opinion, is the promise of AI that's been going on for years is start is gonna start to become a reality for a lot of us.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a big part of what we want to be be a part of here with this product.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, so so that that gives me an opportunity to ask you a question.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like your product is more set up for builders or users?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: In the early stage, that's a great question.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, where we're at right now, you know, in beta, testing the product, trying to build the most amazing consumer bankruptcy SaaS product to ever exist.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: For the early stage, we are looking for builders, you know, early adopters to technology, you know, bankruptcy attorneys that are busy but want to be part of rebuilding what I believe is the entire rebuild of the infrastructure of the consumer bankruptcy world.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Frankly, I think everything's gonna get rebuilt with AI, and we're only interested in this one niche vertical.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Where I want to get eventually, you call them the Fledstones.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love your Fledstones Jetsons analogy that you use.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: When the product is fully baked, give me nine months, a year-ish, right?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: When all three phases are built out and we've worked out everything.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's when it's gonna make sense for the flintstones to come in.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Here, can I tell a story?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: I came out of law school in 2002.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm coming up on my 25th year of consumer bankruptcy.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a really interesting time to come into that world because that was, you know, the internet was really by this point starting to be like, whoa, it was changing everything.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: We knew BAPSIPA was gonna come in at some point.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, the the political ducks were gonna line up so that there would be an ability to pass that law.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: What I saw happen in Colorado, and this frustrated me then, and I'm still frustrated about it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a big part of the story why I built this business, is like the really good bankruptcy attorneys, right?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: The attorneys that were committed to the client, that had built a career doing this, you know, when the whole digital marketing revolution kind of took over, those are not the lawyers that won the cases, right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: They did not win all the new business.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was the attorneys that embraced the technology that learned about Google Pay-Por Click and SEO and all these things, right?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the lawyers that really took the lion's share of the clients in the new world.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: The problem, and we saw this a lot in Colorado, is some of those attorneys were scoundrels.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't, you know, they weren't committed to the client.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: They weren't, they were creating widget factories.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, you know, I came out of law school and look, I filed my own bankruptcy.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I told that story on your podcast before.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was client number one, right?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: But but and and I was so empathetic to, you know, the journey of the debtor.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, man, I want to do the best I can do with this job.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and I, and before I even started marketing, I tried to figure out what how the hell do I do this job?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not everyone looked at it that way.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I basically saw, you know, from the front row, the technological revolution of the time reward attorneys that were not committed to being really great attorneys.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, don't get me wrong, there were high-level bankruptcy attorneys that like embraced it and were doing, you know, providing all services.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I could tell you some stories about what we saw in Colorado.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, the whole world seems to think that to be a consumer bankruptcy lawyer, all you gotta do is fill out some forms.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that the bias that that this particular bar needs to fight against?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm so thrilled that there are lawyers like you and Tara and Jenny who who represent bars so well, and you'll never find a lawyer better than you guys in any other practice area.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: What I want to do, like my mission, and look, and I I have taken this too far in my career.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: No one has sued more bankruptcy attorneys in the federal bankruptcy court under 526, 527, 528 than I have in the last 15 years.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: I got pissed.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I started seeing people getting screwed over.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, broke people would give a lawyer their last dollars to get help and get totally screwed, and it fired me up.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: So then I started suing those lawyers.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then once you get a reputation for that, I mean, my phone started ringing off the hook.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: It became a whole second industry for me.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: But did you ever did you ever get to sue the settlement companies, the the lawyers that masquerade as settlement agents?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I've sued them.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta be honest, Ron, it didn't pay that well.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a lot of work.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the I did my last lawsuit against and I consider it malpractice.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And not all bankruptcy attorneys, I've had this debate with some of the local lawyers here in Colorado.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: They don't think it's legal malpractice.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want me clogging up the courts with this stuff.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: They want me suing these people in state court.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And my point was always to be like, hey, this happened here in your bankruptcy court.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Why would I not sue him here?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it is what it is.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm done with that game.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: I what my mission is gonna be for the next 10 years or so.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a one-trick pony.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hell of a trick, is what I always tell people.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: I make debt disappear, poof.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's magic, right?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: I want to reward the best bankruptcy attorneys.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I want to reward those of us that are really committed to doing a good job because let's be fair, a lot of the job is filling out forms.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let's automate that part of it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let's make all the automation as simple as possible so those good attorneys can do what they do best.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: They can actually counsel the attorney, they can handle the client communication, they can do some of the hand holding and hugging that needs to be done.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: If their client gets go ahead.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, Matt, I'm sorry.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about your product a little bit more.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, sorry.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: I got on my soapbox.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is really interesting.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Under you on the left-hand side of this screen, you've got leads, contacts, tasks, communications.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: What do those items like represent?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: And are that and are they built out?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what's built out right now.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is version one.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: The dashboard, leads, contacts, and then settings, and a lot of magic happens within the settings.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we're building.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: So this is phase two, right?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: The calendar, right?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: You got to have a calendar.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not simple to build out a calendar, automate tasks, events, invitations, all that sort of stuff.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we're building out the calendar.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't, I don't want you to have to, like, it's gonna sync up to Google because you got to have two calendars anyway.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: But we want everything to happen within this ecosystem.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's the secret sauce to automation, right?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: If everything happens in-house here, there's gonna be no limit to what we can automate.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's when you do the API handoff to someone else that you lose capacity to control things.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, leads become matters, you know, when they become clients, obviously, right?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Contacts are pretty self-explanatory.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Every lead and matter has a contact.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Tasks, right?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Tasks are automated internal things and external things that need to happen depending on the workflow.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, it's seven days to the 341.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Paralegal needs to make sure the trustee has all the documents uploaded, pay stubs, bank statements, all that sort of stuff.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Communications, right?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we need to track the communications.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is you know, a good way to do that.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: These things happen within the matter, too.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm in the the Thompson.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Matter.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's the communication tracking there.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of this is going to look pretty familiar to whatever CRM, you know, the solo small firm may be using.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Again, our secret sauce is that everything happens in-house.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Accounts, you know, you got to balance your trust account, right?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: You got to have that.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: We want to help people do that pipeline.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's a marketing element to like, well, where, you know, where are my clients within the pipeline trustees?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll, you know, like what I've done here is I have all the chapter seven and thirteen trustees contact info in the CRM.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, wait, wait.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: In in the jurisdiction or in the country?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, the trustee thing is only in our jurisdiction.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: But as we expand out to other jurisdictions, obviously we're going to upload that.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because why do I have to go chasing these people down, right?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: If I need to get this trustee documents, I want the link to that website to their portal right there.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Boom.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can do it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can upload the docs that are already in there.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is the one, referrals.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is super interesting.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to talk about that right now.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to save that for later.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is the one I want to do.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm going to we'll we'll have you back when you're never going to shut up if you're going to be able to do it.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: So ready to keep inviting me back.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: What's the AI actually doing in your in your in your suite?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe even more importantly, what kind of guardrails and constraints did you feel like you needed to build into this product rather than to the great quick.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, AI's a funny term, right?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's kind of becoming this buzz term.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to my mind, anytime, you know, technology kind of takes an action, you know, AI's been around a long time.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Machine learning, automation, there's been different terms for it.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, when the technology takes an action without the need of a human, sort of that's AI.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you know, one of our cardinal rules really is that our AI is not going to take any action, particularly with the client, unless it's been approved by the lawyer, right?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, here's a suggestion.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do you approve the sending of this email?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I think this document is good, but do you approve that or do you reject that?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Behind the scenes, what we're doing, I think the simplest way to use the right metaphor is okay, so Claude skills, right?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's building Claude skills now, and we're learning how to do that.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, well, the the builders are building Claude skills.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is true.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: The users are saying, I don't know that I no, I agree with you.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think, you know, Tara and I have this debate every now and then.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she's she might be a genius, and boy, does she work hard?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't know that everyone wants to do this shit.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, to my mind, I think they just kind of want to hand it over.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and here's the other thing that's gonna, I think, you know, all these builders are gonna run into is the technical innovation is never going to stop.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Tomorrow.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Tomorrow, something amazing is gonna come out that's gonna blow your mind.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, at some point, it's like, hey, how much time can I spend building shit when my phone's ringing off the hook?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: I got 10 341s next.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at some point you gotta go be the lawyer.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: We could always have an episode about dealing with technical progress, right?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's the old problem.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't want to buy an iPhone in August because you know Apple's gonna come out with the new iPhones in September.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: That iPhone you buy in August is a great piece of tech that's probably gonna last you for a few years.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you reconcile that?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's another question I have, and I really want to get your take on this, which is once upon a time, I had I used an infusion soft, which became keep, and and I heavily automated a lot of communications that were rules-based.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the you know, the no uh distribution report email comes in, boom, email immediately goes out to the client.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't look at that email.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Email goes out to the client that says, hey, you get to keep all the assets you want to keep.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Discharge order comes.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, congratulations, you got a discharge.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: But those were very generic emails.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: With AI, what you can do is you could say, all right, there's a discharge that came in.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where you're gonna get to discharge all these medical debts, credit card debts, et cetera.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna discharge the student loan debts, you're not gonna discharge the debts, the tax debts from 2005.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: You could you can do that now, but you have to be careful because you don't know what the AI is gonna do with that.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, my question is how did you manage that balance?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: The balance where we're at at this point, and I think your point is fair that some of the stuff is a bit generic, is nothing's going to happen.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about a no asset report.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: It gets filed, boom, instantly you would send this generic email out.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: We still would not send a generic email out without the law firm approving it.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: But what can happen eventually, as the law firm sees that happen 50 times, they may be like, hey, I don't want to approve this anymore.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Turn it off.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: I no longer, I remove approval.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: It can be automated, right?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so the the law firm needs to maintain control.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think, frankly, I think it's awesome that you did that.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Boy, were you ahead of the curve because I've been doing it too.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know that that many of that many of us that have been automating these communications.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's that balancing act between, you know, how much do we want to let it do on our own versus how much control do we want to have?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: At some point, especially with the technology that learns, right?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: I do think we have to build some trust, be like, hey, I've seen this thing do this right a hundred out of a hundred times.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to remove that approval requirement when that very particular event happens.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you can totally do that.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can absolutely totally.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, Matt, tell me the roadmap.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: So where we're at now, and it I get so excited about the stuff.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm in what you call user acceptance testing.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I get like I told you, I I killed version one.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: We had to rebuild it.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's coming back.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're in UAT.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: Within the next few weeks, basically what that means, the software builds it.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: They say, hey, we did it, test it out.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: We find some bugs, some tweaks or whatever, we send it back to them.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: There, there's a back and forth.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Version one is about to go live in a matter of weeks.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna go live in my firm first.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: We we have a small group of firms, pretty much everyone's in Colorado right now, that are gonna beta test it.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: What I am asking, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to get the word out, is we are seeking a small cohort of early adopters, right?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so these are not the Flintstones, right?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like the people that are like, I don't want to learn, you know, I want to wait until it's done and then have you plug in and just walk me through what it does and let, you know, great.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: We do want the firms that are super curious about how to build stuff, but maybe don't have time to build it all on their own because one, it's overwhelming.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's why, like my McKinle's days are numbered.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like my days as a bankruptcy attorney, you know, I hope they are numbered sooner than later because I want to spend all my time, every hour of every working day, building solutions for consumer bankruptcy and firms.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna get a small group of cohorts onto version one.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: We're building phase two as we speak.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: I anticipate that by NACPA in Orlando in April, one and two will be fully built, fully operational, ready to even take some Flintstones lawyers, right?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: That does not include electronic case file.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: That does not include petition prep.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna overpromise on that.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: We will not release that until that product is working and we're gonna have to go jurisdiction by jurisdiction.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we we want a small number of groups right now.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're encouraging people to join.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna share.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the BK Fast Pass homepage, and I'm sure I can share the link.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you come over here to BK Fast Lane, there's a link here that says apply to be a founding firm.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that is what if don't need much.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Name, email, law firm, right?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Submit that form, and I'll talk to you, and we'll see if it's a good fit for us to have you be a founding firm where you get a heavily discounted rate.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: And look, I'm betting on us here because I've now seen what we can do.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, Ron, if I could summarize the business plan, it's to blow the mind of the consumer bankruptcy attorney.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm totally gonna be able to do it because my mind has been blown daily.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're our early founding firm partners, right?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hundred bucks a month.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: We're charging you a hundred dollars a month.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Give me six months to blow your mind and prove to you that we have built a product that is gonna make your job better, faster, more money.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: If at the end of that is that a hundred bucks a month per firm or per user?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Per firm.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, we're keeping everything cheap.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're keeping it super cheap.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Where where are you going with pricing when when we all meet up in Orlando and the and uh and the users congregate and uh and they're looking at all of the different AI software available?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's your dream price point?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think about pricing a lot, and we're leaning into a dynamic pricing model.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because like I've always thought like the software pricing was kind of unfair anyway.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like the firm that, you know, 300 bucks for lawmatics or whatever, the firm that's pushing a million things through pays 300 bucks.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: The firm that's pushing five through pays 300 bucks a month or whatever.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my costs, right?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: The software, you know, there's cloud and then there's compute, right?
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, those are the big costs that we have for our clients.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, and obviously we do need to make money here.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: We are going to figure out a dynamic pricing model where I don't want anyone to be priced out.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: If if you're a small firm doing a handful of cases a month, we want you to use our product, but we don't, you shouldn't pay as much as someone pushing 30, 40 cases a month, right?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have the same cloud cost for that client.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have the same compute costs for that client, right?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going to figure out the dynamic pricing model.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's certainly not set yet.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: Where we're at right now for our early, early founding firm partners, 100 bucks a month for six months.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of that six months, if I haven't blown your mind and prove to you that, hey, we are the product for you, or for whatever reason, I don't care.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: If it was like, hey, not for me, great, whatever.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna give you your 600 bucks back.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, no hard feelings.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for giving us a try.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hope to get the opportunity to earn your business.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Satisfaction guarantee, right?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, I, you know, this whole SaaS model where these people try to get us into headlock and then just squeeze us.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I it never sat right with me.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not the way I'm gonna build my business.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna do it.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: If we're bringing if it's a mutually beneficial exchange, I'm bringing value.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Our clients are getting huge value.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Great, let's keep moving forward.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not, hey man, no hard feelings.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want someone tied into my product that's not getting value of it, right?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's plenty of other software companies that can do that.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: What we want to be, you know, here's what we have never had, Ron.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: The consumer bankruptcy industry has never had software devoted exclusively to our workflow, founded, run by a consumer bankruptcy attorney, and venture backed, right?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: We are on the cusp.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: I can't talk about it right now, but I'm gonna invite me back on our venture capital.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: But it's never existed.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, Matt, thank you so much for sharing your vision with our our listeners and our audience.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is an incredibly exciting time to be a lawyer and to be a consumer bankruptcy lawyer because you know, you know, a lot of great AI products are going to become available to us.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really, I felt privileged to be able to showcase yours on our show.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for so much.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see your stuff too.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're cooking up some cool things.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you you you know, I'm gonna tell you my philosophy about everything.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, consumer, all lawyers, everybody, every consumer in the world has a right to a fair understanding of the products that they can buy, whatever they are going to do.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like one of our functions on this podcast is to offer bankruptcy lawyers and and other lawyers visions or insight into what products are available.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know what?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: What vendor A creates may not be right for lawyer B.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what vendor B creates may not be right for lawyer A.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really important that there be a voice to lawyers to help translate what's happening in the crazy world of artificial intelligence.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, Matt McCune, thank you so much for being here.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see what comes next.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for what you do, Ron.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I love the this platform that you have.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I really appreciate it.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me on.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's super exciting times ahead.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for today's episode of AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.