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The Owner's Room: Clawing Your Way Back Up to Baseline · Integrity at Scale™

• 80 - Transcript | 2/5/26 The Owner’s Room: Clawing Your Way Back Up to Baseline Okay, so have you ever felt like you were trying to lead while you were also overly compressed or overly stimulated or unable to release any of the mounting internal pressure? This is the Culture Focused Practice podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper. This owner's room episode is really about leading from a place that is not baseline. It's when you are emotionally and existentially and cognitively and neurologically, man, you're tapped out like you're fucking done. There's either too much input or there's too much content, or there's too much context, and generally speaking, there's too many active channels that are open, all basically funneling towards you. And if you've listened to any of these episodes so far, you should know that an owner's room episode is not intended to train or teach you on specific content. It's not listicle, it's not bulleted. It's really an exploratory type of space. And so this today is an exploration into what it's like when leadership continues inside conditions that don't allow for discernment or clarity or relief and what it can really feel like and mean when there's not a clear path back up to baseline. But stopping is not an option. We will do this exploration by way of six questions and one scenario. So I will ask myself these questions. I have done no prep, I don't have scripted answers. That would be fucking torturous for me. So this is just all in real time. As I'm talking, you're hearing what's coming up, and that's basically it, we're just gonna dive into the questions. Question number one. What does it actually mean to lead from not baseline when there's no immediate way to change the conditions? Ugh. What does it actually mean? Hmm, that's a funny question. I sort of feel like saying I don't know what it means. But one of the implications for me anyway, one of the implications is that nothing beyond what is can take place. Like there's no capacity to do more to move things forward, and there's only capacity to exist. Oh my gosh. I, there's a book called The Digging This Dog, I don't know who wrote it, but. You know my oldest who is at the time of this recording, he's eight and a half. He got it when he was a baby, and in the book there's a dog and they name him Duke and Sammy Brown gets him from the store and. Duke learns how to dig, and he just fucking does it. He digs everything up everywhere in the story, and that's, he gets in trouble basically. And Sammy Brown is like, I'm gonna take you back to the store and you'll never dig anymore. Something like that, you know? So Duke gets scared. And then he basically runs away from Sammy Brown. He digs a hole that goes straight down. And what happens is he dug so deep, he dug a well. Mud and water up to my chin. What a fix he now was in, and that's the visual that comes to mind. Is Duke in the bottom of this well, not doing any forward movement because all he can do is stay afloat. In the case of leadership, I think it's just a tiny little bit different. We probably have some angle to the well that we've dug that we could figure out how do we literally claw our way back up. But the experience of desperately treading water and knowing that there's other things you need and want to be doing, but you cannot move to them, you can't move beyond where you are. For me, that's what it means. It means that in essence, I'm stuck. Like I'm stuck exactly where I am. Nothing bigger that I want to get done well, because all I can do is focus on right now what is the literal next thing that has to get done, which is probably already also late. I also think about, well, how does it feel? Well, it feels like Duke and the digging this dog, it feels like treading water, but with a sort of desperation. You know, it's not just like I'm treading water and it's, it's fine. You know, it's, fuck, how do I get out of this? Like I am in a real bind. I'm in a real pickle. You know, what do I do? How do I get out of this? So I, I don't wanna say fear, um, but I think there is a sense of probably like urgency, maybe some fear that's, fear is not the right word. Desperation is the word that comes to mind. Like, that's the feeling. It's a sense of desperation. ' cause also it's not sustainable, you know, it's not sustainable for Duke to tread water forever in this well that he dug. And it's not sustainable for leaders to maintain whatever they have their hands in, in perpetuity when they're already feeling depleted and you know, not at baseline. So that's my answer. That's it. It's a great children's book for the record. I love it. Question two. How do you recognize that the problem isn't insight or resilience? It's volume and constraint. I don't do this well, I don't recognize this well, and I think it's just having a pretty long history of carrying shit, like, you know, sort of, um, a background banner or something is like, I'll just get it done. I can get it done. I'll figure it out like that sort of sense. How I can come to that recognition is usually through quite a bit of external processing. That historically has been through, well, you know, I would brain dump stuff like I'd get a 24 by 36 size post-it, uh, sheet. They have like the giant poster board post-it so you can like write on and throw away. You know, but with the Post-It, it would be, I see everything on paper and I can sort of conceptually group things and physically like, manipulate what's there, and then maybe rewrite in a way where I have priorities and, uh, timely things that need to get done, and it helps me feel better. It's like, oh, whew. Okay, cool. That's doable. Now I feel like what I've started doing is the same or a similar process, but into a chat GPT thread and I will just word purge for five to 10 minutes, like a voice to text, talking anything and everything that is heavy weight in my mind, and I'm saying to chat at some point, either in the beginning or the very end. Help me synthesize this, like help me make sense of what is going on and why I'm feeling so intensely about X, Y, or z. Since I started doing this, one of the consistent themes has been the volume. Let me clarify this. I don't personally recognize like my meaning on my own, that the problem is volume and constraint, like time constraints, role constraints, whatever. But it also doesn't really feel like resilience. Like I've never doubted like I'm resilient. I can do it. Like that's not the thing either. It usually is where I question that i'm like missing insight about something. Like, I must be missing something. What am I missing? How are people doing this? And that's typically when I get the pushback. Like, they're not like, you're, you're expecting too much to be able to do all of these things, is expecting too much of yourself, basically That, that it's volume, in other words. So. Maybe the long and short is that I'm not good at this. I don't do it well, but what I have learned is that I need to do this through external means. And the most effective thing that I found to date is chat GPT. So that's a whole ass separate conversation about the maybe ethical and like future relationship we have with ai, but what I will say is that it's been incredibly helpful. I think I've answered that question enough. Question number three, where's the agitation pointed right now? Even if you can't fully act on it? Man, for me, the agitation inevitably ends up pointed at shit that has to be maintained like payroll or even stuff related to podcast production, like that sort of thing, or doing things like fucking website updates. Like there's, there's pieces of the group. What I've realized, like there's pieces missing these small little pieces that aren't full roles in and of themselves. Like we're not missing an entire role at the practice, you know, but there's some core responsibilities that are not where they should be. Where they are is with me. Where they should be is not with me. That's ultimately it is like I keep getting, it almost feels like hamstrung, like I'm hamstrung by fucking maintenance, like shit that really has to get done. It is, it's like non-negotiable. Like if this isn't stuff that I can just, like, I'll kick the can down the road. No. Like it has to get done and it's time sensitive and it requires my focus and attention, but it's not in and of itself enjoyable. Like I don't enjoy payroll, for example. And you might be thinking, what the hell, Tara? Why don't you have a payroll person? Yeah. That's the goal, is to have like a, someone doing payroll and benefits administration, you know, but it's not here right now. And the shift I was gonna make fell through, and so it's like, fuck me. Okay. Ooh, I guess I'm still in this hole. Let me just keep treading and try to figure out, okay, what's the next path? Like, how do I, again, there's that desperation, you know, of being like in a hole, feeling that desperation, needing to get the fuck out of it. That is where the agitation is pointed is those three things, actually, specifically website updates, which sounds ridiculous, but there's, I could get into like, why do they still live with me? But it doesn't feel worth it, just know it's in, that's a whole separate can of worms, so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Website updates, payroll and benefits administration. I would lump that in there. And then also podcast production, stuff like these three things happen consistently and I hate them. I love episodes, like I love talking. I love recording. I love talking with people. That's fun and easy. That's about it. I don't wanna do anything else. And so when I get in these situations, I get myself into, but also when I'm in situations where I'm actively doing things that require me to consistently tend to them, but I'm not like really enjoying them and also they don't stretch my brain in the way that I really feel like I can, like flex. You know? It just fucking sucks. It just, it's draining. It's, it's the whole digging piece. It's the desperation. It's the overly compressed. It's the overly stimulated. It's like exhausting in all the wrong ways, basically. So those are specifically the things. There's might be more, but those three things in particular feel like key areas that are receiving agitation. Rightfully so that that's where my agitation is pointed to. Okay. Question four. So what happens internally when you can see the pressure source but you don't have a clean lever to pull? Oh, I mean, I, I feel like I'm talking about this already, but what happens internally? Uh, I mean, agitation is sort of this obvious answer that's kind of a given. You know, I think that. I think the language I used earlier was like a mounting internal pressure. That is how it feels and that there's no release valve and so. I just feel like I have more and more heat and energy and frustration and agitation growing inside of me, and I have no single fucking place to get rid of it. Like there's nothing that allows me to, whew, exhale some of this intensity. That's a half lie. Some of the exhalation comes from being able to focus on a project that I'm like really wanting to bring to life. It's when I get to, in essence, choose where my time goes. What I'm also realizing as I'm talking out loud right now is that it's probably been six or eight weeks, I think we're coming up on eight of a fucking disrupted schedule. And I hate it. I hate it because when my schedule is disrupted, shit is less likely to be done when it needs to be. And then if I go to sit down and I might have the time to work on a project instead, I'm cleaning up my own fucking mess. 'cause things aren't done when they need to be. Not to mention. With the holidays, which this is, we're sort of coming outta the holidays. I dunno when you're listening, but this is post-holiday still. My husband and I have been like toying with schedule changes, like how we're operating on a daily basis. Long term. This is gonna be great. Short term, what we were doing wasn't fucking working like. Was not working. I'm just gonna say that. And so I think there's something too about like this pressure that's been mounting and growing is not only related to the things I've been doing, but also the ways in which I've had to engage with the work that I don't wanna do, and not having time to do the work that I want to do, like the shit that I just wanna sit with. Let my mind go. Where are we going? I'm just sort of following almost like whims and urges. Not in a Hmm, not in a, there's no negative connotation with that, but it's like allowing the felt sense of like, where do I want to go in this moment? Where's my energy wanting to go and trusting that I haven't had the space and time to do that, so. There's no clean lever. That would be a little bit of a lever to pull to release. It'd be a release valve, I should say that. Not really a lever to pull to clean everything up. And again, the result is just a continued growing sense of frustration, agitation, internal restlessness, et cetera. Okay, I'm gonna keep going now 'cause I'm pretty sure I've exhausted that question . So. Question five. What does clawing your way back up actually look like when there's no obvious path forward? Oh, that's a good question. What does it look like when there's no obvious path forward? Hmm. Okay. So I think this is almost like a developmental process because initially what it looks like, let me press pause for one second. All of this. I just, I wanna say this out loud because it, it's dawning on me that it feels really important to say. I think there's been this insight and sort of shift, and I think I've talked about it on the podcast. I know that I have, I sort of entered into this wintery season. From that came, a lot of shedding, honestly came a lot of like saying no to shit, getting rid of shit, just kind of like sitting and being comfortable in more of a quiet space from there. Which remains true, honestly, like there's still a sense of like sort of internal quiet, I should say, maybe like a deeper roots. Maybe that's a better way of saying things from there. Came this realization like only in the stillness was I able to see and feel some of the deeper frustration about some of the things that I've been maintaining that I actually want no part of. And this is also kind of in the. Um, I don't know exactly what word to use, but there's something that's happening for me as well. It's kind of like conceptual grappling with the concept. A concept of noise and signal. And what I have been realizing lately is that. The noise in my life is too loud and it's so loud in fact that I'm not even able to sit still and listen or look for long enough to be able to note any signal on the horizon. This stuff that is coming up right now, like the payroll, like the podcast production stuff, including like editing some of the videos. You know, like that's what I, part of what I mean, like the website maintenance, all of that is noise and it takes up enough time that I'm not able to access signal. I need signal in my life. I think we all need signal in our life. So I'm saying all of that to say, that's how I got to today's episode. Like that's how this is coming up. That's sort of the, the process of getting here. And so what does clawing your way back up actually look like when there's no obvious path forward? If I'm coming back to question five, I think it is a little bit of a developmental process in that initially. It all was just noise, and I had no idea why. I was even feeling like I knew shit was loud and I was frustrated, but I couldn't have said it's this, like, this is what's wrong. So there was no obvious path forward. It was just me feeling frustrated and like, this, isn't it, like something's off, something's wrong. I'm like, fucking annoyed. I'm agitated about this, but I, I don't even know exactly what this is. And then in sitting with that, 'cause there's no other option, it's still things that I have to get done. So I'm consistently being exposed to shit that I don't wanna do, growing in frustration, then I start to actively grapple. That act of grappling comes the kinda specific things where I realized, these things in particular, fuck these things. I don't want anything to do with them. So that feels like the developmental trajectory. There's probably more, I'm sure there's next, next things, you know, more things to come. So I think what I'm trying to say is that when there's no obvious path forward, clawing your way back up doesn't actually look like clawing your way back up. It looks like trying to figure out what you're even mad or frustrated or really agitated about. That's what it is. I think I'm also wary of even talking about it like this because it's not poetic. Like it's not pretty, it's not clean. It's, it's just feels like this messy process and. If there is no other option, like if you can't claw your way back up, then I mean, fuck. We might as well try to take stock of what's happening around us and try to make sense of like, okay, what's the thing that's actually the most fucking frustrating in all of this? And then maybe, let me see if I can fix that. And so that is probably my answer. The claw your way back up. When there's no obvious path forward is to try to figure out what's the closest point of your frustration, like the closest to the source point of your frustration, and then in the identification of that thing or those things. There's at least some sort of faint fucking path that you're gonna be able to see. So I think that's what it might look like. I think that's what it can look like. Sixth and final question then. Fucking hell. Okay. How does sustained overstimulation change the way you prioritize, decide, or tolerate friction? Ooh. I mean, all I'll say is that. It significantly decreases my tolerance of friction. It significantly diminishes my ability to decide, and it also fucks with my ability to accurately prioritize. So I don't think that's what the question's asking, but I wanna talk about this first. Like. If there is ongoing sustained overstimulation, I'm not gonna prioritize well, I'm not as good at deciding and not deciding well either. And I can't tolerate any additional stimulation, honestly, including excess friction or extra friction. But if I answer this question exactly as it is, so how does sustained oversimulation change the way you prioritize friction, decide about friction, and then tolerate friction? Actually, no, I think my answer is the same because I am going to deprioritize anything that's gonna create friction. So if there is something, for example, that the group needs, let's say some fucking system, I don't know, and also I'm in an overstimulated, maintenance focused, can't let my brain run and I can't use my time, how I want to state of being. I'm not gonna add that system on. Like, there's no way, because I know I don't have any capacity for that thing. The questions that come along with it, learning how to do it, uh, running point on how it fits in with the vision, like mm-hmm. None of it, I'm not gonna be able to do any of this stuff. I'm not interested and so I'm not going to prioritize anything that might create friction, especially the addition of something new. The removal of something that is creating friction is an easier conversation, but something that is going to create some friction. Even though like maybe it is positive, I'm probably gonna push it to the next quarter or just later. It's gonna have to be done later. Same as with deciding, it's really hard for me to, if I'm feeling especially overly stimulated, and again, I have been for a while, it's really hard to decide on something that's so fucking funny that I'm saying this out loud because I'm realizing right now there is something that I keep stalling on and it's not something that is, you know, um, has major implications immediately for anybody on our team. Like it's something more vision oriented. It's something more marketing oriented. It's sort of longer term in focus, but the reality is. I'm not making a decision, like I keep not making a decision and I think it's because of all of the noise. The noise to signal ratio being so fucking off and the ongoing like drain of reserves of energy and capacity that I have. I don't have it in me to decide about something that is not immediately pressing, and even then I might try to stall that out as much as I can. Then same with tolerating friction. How does sustained overstimulation change the way you tolerate friction? I mean, I feel like it's obvious, but probably for most of us, I assume this is the case. I have less tolerance for it. So if there's something that continues to be kind of a thorn in my side, I'm either going to get rid of it entirely if possible, or. You know, I say that I might then question like, what the fuck is the point of this? And if I can't actually ground it into like a core value or something with ROI or something that's beneficial for a lot of people, it's gonna get the boot, like it's getting the ax, you know? But then what I also might do is lean into the, like if it's something, let's say related to people, I might lean into a disciplinary process faster than if I wasn't as overly simulated consistently. You know, I'm curious, what I'm thinking about Taylor. I'm thinking about my integrator and my DCO, I think I'm interested in their answers. I'm wondering if their answers would be similar to mine. Like if how I'm talking about this is more of the norm, or like most people, or if there's some, um, just nuance with people, you know, like temperaments and how they might deal with or change like prioritization and decisions and tolerance of friction as a result of feeling overly stimulated. So I don't know. Okay, I think that's it with questions. We are going to move on folks. We're gonna move on to a scenario or scenario you choose. I had two to choose from. I have two here, but I'm only gonna do one. They both are very good, but we're gonna do one. I will read it and then I will just riff from there. So you keep scanning for an exit that doesn't exist yet. Not because you're afraid to act, but because every possible move creates a different kind of problem you're not willing to absorb right now. So the pressure stays internal, the agitation stays contained. You are still leading, you're still showing up, you're still doing the work. But the longer this goes on the clearer it becomes that something has to give. Eventually the question isn't if you'll get back to baseline, it's how much strain your system can carry while you figure out how. Ooh. If that ain't the fucking truth, man, that is so, so for real. Yeah. You know, the first thing that comes to mind for me in this is like, if a boat is sinking, what's the shit that you can throw overboard? You know what extra weight is there to throw overboard? Maybe that's actually part of the tolerating friction, or like decision making stuff. When there is no energy, when there is no capacity, when all of your faculties or a lot of them are like running thin, I think there's something that happens and there's definitely a real extreme version of this happening. Like there's, there's a worst case scenario if this pendulum swings too far, but I do think there's something that can happen where shit gets the boot. Like when you're doing something and you don't have it in you to contain or to maintain it, and something's going to give, the stuff that gives first is either the sort of the, the weakest in the system. You know, think about like the weakest link or like, um. Where is the system, if you apply pressure, where's it gonna crack first? So it could bring up something that really needs to be fixed, which is just a whole nother added layer of like, damn, like now you've got more to fix. Or it might point out stuff that isn't really that valuable. And so I think that what I'll say for myself historically, and maybe for a lot of us, again, I just don't know, is that when there is. The clarity that something's going to give eventually, and that this isn't sustainable. Like, how long can you know our system maintain this, can carry this? There are very clear things that go first, like, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. It's like immediately there's. Shutdown mode. You know, it's like your fingers, if you're freezing, your digits are gonna go first All of your body goes to heating core components of you, so that you stay alive. Kind of feels the same. So what we don't want is to lose our fingers and toes. And I think that a leadership teams, can be really helpful here. And that if you say, I'm gonna shut down this, this, this, this. Your leadership team might say, hang the fuck on. Like, hang on, hang on. How about we just try. One thing or two things or girl, I think you might be a little bit overwhelmed, like, how about we figure out what to get the hell off of your plate if anything? Or how about we just push pause on things for three months or you know, whatever. If you don't have a leadership team in place, it can be that you are like cutting shit off left and right and at the very extreme end of the spectrum when you're feeling much more stable and like your system isn't overwhelmed with everything. There might be some regret about certain things that got cut off. Maybe not, but there might be some where it's like, damn, I went too far. Like I should have kept this and this and this. This would've been an easy option to like, um, maintain that, but not be, have it be in my hands, et cetera. I think a leadership team in particular can be helpful when you're like in this state going to them and being like, um, I can't do this. Like, I can't do this in this way. Here's what I'm thinking. We get rid of, what do y'all think? Or let's having them just push back immediately. You know? The other piece to this that I'm thinking is maybe there's a need for that grappling. Like if you are, again, I just keep thinking about Duke in the, well, you know, the. Self-made well, but still in the well. And he is, um, treading water and rhyming about what a fix he now is in. And if we were to take that and make it a little bit more like leadership again, I think there would still be a well or some sort of like ditch or giant hole. There's probably more of an angle to the hole. So there is a way you could get some traction going up somewhere, but the more that you try without looking, the more that you keep sliding down. And so there's something about how do I take stock of my surroundings even when I'm feeling the sense of desperation and it kind of feels like there's no option because if you keep trying to get out and you keep sliding back down, then. You're gonna keep sliding. So what's the alternative? Why don't we just fucking tread this water miserably, mind you, and see, okay, what have we tried? What is the worst fucking path to take? Or what's the worst thing about being here? Trying to isolate that variable again in my case, be something like payroll and benefits administration and. What's the plan for getting rid of it? Okay. That is, and then it's sort of like the minute you do that, the, the path lights up a tiny little bit. You see this faint glimmer of, oh, I could follow this route, that route there, and then I can latch on up there and get outta this. Or at least that gets us to the next tier. Maybe it's like a three tiered, uh, not cliff side. Goodness gracious. A, a three-tiered track to get out of the ditch, out of the hole. So I think that that's another thing is that if you don't know right now what to do, that doesn't mean you won't know. And if you've tried a bunch of shit and it keeps failing, maybe I hate saying sitting still 'cause I don't think that's exactly it. Maybe wrestling with it just to try to figure out what's wrong rather than trying to solve it. There we go, that's a distinction to me. I'm not trying to solve something. I'm trying to fucking understand it as deeply as possible because only from there can I then have insight about, okay, what do I need to do then? If this is the core issue of what is frustrating, oh, I see. That's what I need to do then to get rid of it. You know? So I think that's what I think there'd be the grappling with it. There'd be. I do think it gets really clear about what's, what you wanna keep do or what you can cut out and not, but the risk is cutting out way too much. So having like leadership team around you for example, or at least a couple of sort of trust people to, to bounce ideas off of or maybe just grapple with about what to get rid of or the timing of getting rid of things, that can be really, really helpful. You know, I hate, there's one more thing that's coming to mind, but I hate even saying this because I don't necessarily Mm. I don't really do this for myself. Although I have had colleague friends do it, and so, and I would, you know, if I was working with somebody, I would actually recommend this. I think there's something too about. Giving yourself a deadline. Something about how long am I willing to sustain this? And if I reach that point, what drastic move will I take to be done with it? Whatever it is, because I also think in some cases, here's another thought that I just had, I think sometimes. People sustain things because of the emotional something that gets in the way of letting it go. I know for myself, if I can't see a system, clearly it's hard me to pass it over, so I spent. I think all last quarter really externalizing my payroll process, and so at this point, passing it over, not an issue. Now I just need to find a person to do that in benefits administration, finding people I fucking hate doing. For the record, I hate. The being the one to do the hiring stuff. I love hiring processes. I do not enjoy being a person who does interviews and sets up. Ugh, I hate it. Don't like doing that at all. My point is that there might be something about a. System being hard to let go of that you currently are owning, but that same system is weighing heavily on you. It's one of the things that you realize, this is the root cause of me being stuck in this fucking ditch or well or giant pit. I hate doing it. I hate everything about it, but giving it up is terrifying and I don't know how to trust somebody to do it. Your choices are based on what I'm hearing slash making up about this one, you stay in the ditch and keep doing it. Two. You deal with the emotionality around giving it up. That's kind of it. I think, identifying which thing is happening for you in terms of, um, what's the thing that you are frustrated about? What's the thing that keeps you there? Or a couple of things, if there's a few. Then maybe a second piece to this is what's the emotionality around it? So is there something that's stopping you from giving it up? Because it could be not only the identification of the thing is important. I know for me that was, it's always helpful to just clarify like I. What is the fucking crux of it for me? You know, what is at the core of like, what am I so frustrated about relatedly? What's the emotionality around the thing that I'm frustrated about? Obviously I'm frustrated, like that's a feeling, you know? But is there something about giving up payroll that is really difficult to do if it's not clear? Yeah, it's difficult to pass this over unless I'm very clear about what it is that I expect. The timing of things, who does what, where it lives, et cetera. Once that's all clear. No, I don't have any issues. This is good to know. 'cause now this means an I hiring process. Or if I'm going to bring somebody on to do this, I will have less of an issue actually delegating this over and more ability to just audit when I so choose. You know, something about video editing. If there's something about giving it up. The same emotional stuff comes up. For me, it's about trusting somebody, but also being clear about what it is that I want. So if I go to give something up and I don't know exactly what it is that I want with it and slash or I don't know how to clarify with somebody else, this is what I want, I'm not gonna give it up because I can't even say to them what it is that I want. And then if they do something and I don't like it. I'm gonna be frustrated and neither have to go back in and edit and slash or tell them, yeah, this didn't work for me, and have them do it again. And then they're asking me all these questions and it's just all of it. All of it is just ends up being, there's something about giving something up. I know for myself where I have to be clear about the specifics of what it is that I want and what I expect done in essence, and then I can delegate the thing to another party. So again, saying that to say if you identify what the thing is that you are especially frustrated and stuck around or the things plural, I think spending a few extra minutes or hours grappling with the emotionality around it as well. It is not unrealistic to think that there is something in there for you about, you know, emotionality around whatever the thing is. So, holy moly, I think that I'm done. I think that I'm done talking about this. I, I don't always think that there is. A clean bow to put on something. This process to me is messy, like going through it. I'm pointing like at you, at myself, you know, this process is messy. I think that most iterations of who we are as people, I think most evolutions, I think most developmental processes that we're in, I feel like it's all fucking messy, especially when you're in it. And I do feel like I'm kind of in the thick of this thing and I've. I've just gotten to this point where I see these faint sort of pathways up because I've been able to identify what are those core sources of frustration, like what are the things that feel like they're constant constraints and keeping me sort of, um, oh, like compressed in, you know, not necessarily like the walls are closing in, but like. If I'm, I'm five eight, you know, and let's say the box is meant for someone who's five six. So I'm, I'm just like slightly, slightly shy of being able to fucking stand up straight, like that sort of constant, you know, constraint. So not pretty. That's all right. I'm okay with that. What is pretty however, is you being here with me. I love. The concept of time and talking about it, but I also will say that I love you spending some with me. It means a lot. So thank you for being here with me. What I will also say is, do one of two things for me. Especially if you enjoyed this episode and slash or relate to this episode one is subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't already, you stay up on new episodes releasing. It's easier to find and listen to old ones two. If you know somebody this will resonate with, please share it with them because I want this to hit people who need it. So that's all for me. I will see you on the next episode and have a great rest of your day. Thanks. Bye.