Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Julaine Appling: Revival, Retreat, Or Business As Usual For The Church?

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Julaine Appling: Revival, Retreat, Or Business As Usual For The Church? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in today.
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  Another opportunity to really talk about things that matter from a biblical perspective,
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  right before we got on the podcast here, we prayed that God would lead us.
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  And I do that every day that this would really minister to you, bless you, encourage you.
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  Maybe some people need to be challenged.
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  Maybe some people need to be lovingly encouraged to wake up and understand the times.
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  So I'm going to bring in Jolaine Appling.
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  She's back with us.
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  It's just such a blessing.
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  Jolaine, Wisconsin Family Council, Wisconsin Family Action.
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  I know you're not in office anymore, but you're still doing the work.
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  And we so appreciate all the things you've done all these years.
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  Thanks for coming back.
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  You know what, David, I'm honored to come back.
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  I'm still serving with the organization as President Emeritus.
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  I still do consulting.
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  I do interviews like this.
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  I work on our publications.
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  I do podcasts that we produce.
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  So it's my honor to do that in this position as President Emeritus.
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  I don't, this is important.
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  The day that, you know, redeeming the time,
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  creating a sense of urgency amongst God's people, he told us now is the time to wake up.
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  So let's do it.
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  Let's talk worldview and find out why it matters.
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  Yeah, well, I should have known instead of just assuming that you're not in office as much as possible.
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  I know you and I don't, I can't believe I said that because you never stop.
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  And that's good.
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  And we need a lot of you, like we need a lot of Charlie Kirk's.
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  I mean, we'll get to him in a minute and you knew him and he did some work with you guys there.
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  First, I want to ask you, you had John Stone Street do an event recently.
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  I love him and the Colson Center and I love Breakpoint.
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  Tell us about that and can people watch that or where can they find out more info?
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  Yeah, good. Thanks, David, because, you know, back in COVID, when we were trying to find ways
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  to connect with people, we started this thing called lunch with a purpose.
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  Primarily, we're thinking that people had lunch hours free if they were in business
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  or pastors would have it free, you know, during their day.
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  So we've continued them even outside of the COVID era and they have found them to be pretty
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  popular in this most, the most recent one we did just last week with John Stone Street,
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  obviously, with the Colson Center.
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  And John was tasked with talking about being salt and light in a pagan culture.
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  We let off with Charlie Kirk and his, and we asked, we asked John, how do you think we as
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  Christians should respond to this and also what would be some pitfalls?
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  You know, he had some really some really good advice there for us both, you know, positively
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  and negatively. Charlie would not want people to make him a god.
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  Charlie would not want people to worship him.
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  Charlie would want people to worship the one god and John remind us of that.
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  And then he dove into, you know, what does it look like for the body of Christ
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  and local churches as the manifestation of the body of Christ where we live?
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  What does it look like for us to be salt and light in our culture?
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  And he got into, he, you know, John, if you listen to him and I know you do, David,
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  he that's not hesitate to call out the church and that the church has to wake up and take
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  ownership and the church has a legitimate role in talking about biblical issues.
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  What do we mean by biblical issues? Oh, shock of shocks.
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  My word, it might be about life. It might be about marriage.
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  It might be about parental rights. It might be about freedom.
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  It might be about all kinds of things that have been politicized in, you know,
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  recent decades, but are inherently biblical. Look, that interview in its entirety
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  is on our website at wifamilycouncil.org.
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  He was excellent. Seriously, David, he was one of the best.
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  We've had Katie Fowles, we've had Ken Ham, we've had Al Molar, we've had Erwin Lootzer,
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  we've had Wayne Grudem, you know, we've had a lot of big names on there.
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  And John Sunstreet was right up there. I just was excellent.
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  Wow, heavy hitters.
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  And so the other website, of course, wifamilyaction.org.
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  So I want to get to the church ambassador network and then talk spring elections.
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  But first, this picture in our studio here, we've got a big wall with a picture of you
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  with Charlie Kirk. And I want to bring that up, guys, look at that.
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  Jolaine, I know you met him and he's done some events with you guys.
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  Lead Wisconsin for those that don't know what that is.
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  Tell us about it and your experience with Charlie.
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  Oh, David, people need to know about lead Wisconsin.
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  Look, God has always given me a passion for the next generations.
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  And I was looking for years for some way for us to feed into the next generation directly.
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  And in 2019, we were given this opportunity to bring lead Wisconsin to Wisconsin.
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  And it originated in Michigan and God has just grown at every year.
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  And then the first year we had in, you know, in-person camp was 2021.
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  And I got a call from her friend who said, hey, if I could get Charlie Kirk to come to camp,
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  would you like that? And I said, yeah, you got to be kidding.
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  Yeah, I would like, I'm sure our teens would like Charlie Kirk.
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  And so for four years, Charlie Kirk took time out of his schedule.
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  He'd fly in. And you know, one of his private jets, he'd come in the first year that we had him in 2021.
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  He was newly married. He got married in May of that year.
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  And we had him in July. And then it was either the next year or the following year,
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  he came with this wife and his baby.
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  And so he'd be in the building. He'd do his podcast from one of the classrooms in the university
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  campus. And then he'd come in and spend about an hour and a quarter, an hour and a half or
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  hour and three quarters with our teenagers. And we're talking in a packed room. We'd have 150 people
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  in that room. It was jam packed with people wanting to hear from him. And you know what was
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  wonderful about him. A couple of things, David, we watched Charlie grow. And I really attribute it
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  primarily to the fact that he got married and had a baby. Every society has to figure out
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  how to deal with single men. And the answer to dealing with single men in a society is for them
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  to get married and to have a family. Because it changes how they view things.
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  You become more humble. You become more passionate. You talk more about marriage.
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  You talk more about family. And we saw all of that in Charlie. But one of the main things that
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  we appreciated most about him with our teenagers was he gave ample time for Q&A. And David,
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  he let them ask basically anything. A couple of them would take him on on some issues they disagreed
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  with him on. And later on they'd say, I would talk to him and they'd say, I know I can't believe
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  I disagreed with Charlie Kirk. But he had direct influence on well over 200 teenagers who that
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  through that four years. He didn't come this year because of his schedule after the election.
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  It just got crazy. But Charlie Kirk had a profound influence on our teenagers. And certainly the
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  opportunity that I had to interact with him when he occasionally, I'm not saying we were close,
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  because we weren't close close. But he had my number. And I had his number. And we had we had
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  contact with his people. And we worked on some projects together productively. And you know,
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  like the rest of the Christian world, we mourned. And we continue to mourn the loss of Charlie.
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  Kirk, I think David, I think he's a generational one of one of one, a generation. Absolutely,
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  no replacing. But here's what's interesting. Yeah, I'm seeing so many good reports, especially
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  coming from the youth. And some Christians and some churches, not all, I wish more churches would
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  engage, but we'll get to that maybe in your church and bastard network. But what are your
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  thoughts as far as where we are? You're in Madison, Wisconsin. You've had your offices fire bombed.
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  And this was over the abortion issue. But nonetheless, they think it's hate speech. They think what
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  we have been talking about all these years, Jolaine, you and I and Charlie Kirk's and others,
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  so many others. They a lot of people have been, especially some young people have been brought up
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  in the system with the K through 12 and then the universities, the media, Hollywood, and the left,
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  not all Democrats, but the leftists which have taken over the Dems in some ways. And so that rhetoric
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  is poison and it leaves to violence. And so they think we are hateful. What are your thoughts
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  where we're at and how can Christians respond? Well, I think we're at a tipping point.
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  I really do. I think that as I look at this whole thing, and by the way, there are things going
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  on in my local community, David, where I ended up by appointment to be on our local school board.
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  And it's been wild. And this whole thing has been over the transgender issue, all five
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  liberals resigned from our school board. I'm feeling all of this at a very personal level right now,
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  because I see what's happening as things foment in a local community. I look around and I
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  ask the question locally in National League. Are we on the verge of a revival? Are we on the
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  verge of going completely to the liberal side? I'm not sure. I pray faithfully that it's on the
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  revival side. In fact, I said to somebody the other day during the memorial service for Charlie,
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  and with tears streaming down my face, is it possible that I'm going to get to live to see
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  another national revival? I've never seen one. It's not, I've never happened in my lifetime.
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  I just don't know. I think the key in this is a church. I believe wholeheartedly,
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  Charlie, David, that the God's plan for today is done to primarily through the local church.
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  I think that's clear in the book of Acts and beyond, and the church has to wake up. The church
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  has to take ownership. The left has tried to control the message, control the definition of
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  language. They have done everything in their power to take people out of positions of leadership
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  on the conservative side, not just through horrific things like happened to Charlie, but through
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  other nefarious tactics of making sure they've belittled them and besmirched them and put them
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  in a situation where they were afraid and they stepped out of leadership or just lost elections or
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  whatever. The reality is we are not the hateful ones. They could talk about that all they want,
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  but I think the best evidences of that, and you've heard this, I'm not saying anything new here,
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  when Charlie was assassinated, we can go out and burn cities. Madison is not having to have
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  windows replaced and torn down statues repaired and put back in place, and people fearing for
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  their lives and businesses closing, because Charlie Kirk was assassinated, because we as Christians,
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  in particular, and I say that particularly about Christians and conservatives in general,
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  that's not who we are. That's right. We work with the horror of it, but we don't respond with
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  violence, and the rhetoric has gotten to the point where impressionable young people, and let's
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  complete to make sure we focus on that a little bit, because it is the impressionable look,
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  the guy who's allegedly, Charlie's killer, 22, David, 22. You know, because you are an incredibly smart
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  man, that that is a very vulnerable age for a young man. All of the things that have to happen to
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  bring the brain into full maturity, so they understand cause and effect, and all of that,
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  that's still in the development nature, and especially in a young male. We have to change the
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  message to the young people. We have to, the college campuses have to become places, by the way,
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  we just have a bill introduced here in Wisconsin to try to make sure we have free speech on our UW
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  campus. Imagine that. Unbelievable. Yeah, we shouldn't have to have these bills.
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  Anyway, I wanted to ask you something, Julianne, on these same lines, along these lines, just a
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  couple of weeks ago, Wisconsin representative had death threats, Gerry O'Connor, for promoting
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  legislation that would have basically only flown flags that unite, like the American flag,
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  and the state flag of Wisconsin, not the gay pride flag, at the state capital, death threats.
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  One more thing, you said the guy was 22 years old, the assassin of Charlie Kirk. I think that's
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  the same age as the shooter in Texas that shot up the ICE facility, 22 same anti-leftist and
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  media reports. Oh, we don't know his motives, and I'm going, wow, the media covers for these people,
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  because they want to make them the victim. And this, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe this
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  is going to change, because the leading Democrats, which are radicals, not all Democrats, but many of
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  them. They are spouting this stuff, like Trump or his administration, or those who follow him,
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  are a threat to democracy. The more they say that over and over, and then say fascists or whatever
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  labels they're going to put on Trump and MAGA, I'm proud to stand up from my country and want a
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  better country and say, yes, I want America to be great. And I want America to start with the
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  Bible and Christ and God and a Christian nation, that standpoint. But your thoughts on these
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  another threat right here in Wisconsin, and it's not going to change, how do we respond to that?
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  Well, it's not going to change. Let me real quickly tell you about Jerry O'Connor. He's a
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  state representative from Fonda, like the bill was exact. We've had a couple others introduced
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  over the last couple of years, like this, to, in an effort to quit flying politically,
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  divisive flags or culturally divisive flags over government buildings. And Jerry's on the floor
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  of the state assembly, and he's talking about, you know, let's use 9-11. Now, I think it was on
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  the 11th of September in recognition of the 24th year of that horrific incident here of the
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  terrorism, and one day post the assassination of Charlie Kirk and what happened was people
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  from the left took what he said and said, oh, representative O'Connor, Jerry O'Connor is blaming
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  the pride flag for 9-11 and for the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And so they put death threats out on
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  him to the point, David, where they had to cancel a public hearing that was scheduled on that bill.
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  Now, none of this is going to stop. But let me let me drill down real quickly in one thing.
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  One of the hot beds of all of this is our secular college campuses. It is dead from the moment
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  that young people stepped foot on those campuses until they exit. People in high places have access
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  to them there. Professors, people with all, you know, a string of degrees after their name and
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  experience, and they feed, feed, feed, feed, feed. All of this vitriolic message, this harmful,
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  vindictive, hateful message into these young people. Then it turns around and it's echoed
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  by people who are in leadership positions, who are older, who should know better about what they're
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  doing. And we create a vicious circle that ultimately ends up in horrific violence that has more
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  than once taken the life of people whose lives should not have been taken simply because they
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  were saying something that other people disagreed with. David, I'm so glad you mentioned this and
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  let's just reiterate it. This is going to sound simplistic, but it is so true. Jesus is the
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  answer because he's the answer to the change of heart, just a change of thinking will help,
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  but ultimately it's a change of heart. And the Holy Spirit is the only one that I know of who can
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  change the heart of a person to become, to understand what real love is and what hate is not.
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  And that changes a person's worldview. And when your worldview changes and becomes a biblical
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  worldview, your behaviors and actions change, who you vote for will change likely. So anyway,
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  we don't want to, you know, go down that road and be too redone because we talk about that all
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  the time, all the time. So I like the point that you made earlier on. You said we basically on
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  paraphrasing, we are not the same as the left. There were riots and all these other billions of
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  dollars in damage. There were I think two dozen people murdered in 2020 because of the leftist
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  China globalist funded Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation. And after Charlie Kirk was
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  assassinated violently, publicly on a college campus. And for all the world to see, there was prayer,
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  there was astoundingly forgiveness by Erica Kirk. I don't know if I could have done it at least
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  that quickly. And there were people coming together. There was unity. There was at least with half
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  the country. So we are not the same. And it is a worldview issue. So we've got to start with the
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  gospel. Charlie was loyal to that. In fact, one of his quotes. A most important thing is getting
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  people saved and preaching the gospel. And the second most important thing is making sure we have
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  the free speech to still do the most important thing. And if you make, if you know people what I'm
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  talking about because you, we lose our religious freedom and freedom of speech and they are labeling
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  hate speech, that could go away. And that's going to affect all of us, including pastors that are
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  silent in your own church's pastor. If the laws change, if you don't get engaged and help the
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  political movement here, Julian, would you like to speak to that? Because I know you have a church
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  ambassador network on your website. Tell us about that. Well, first of all, I want to just
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  follow up on what you just said about, you know, pastors who take a pass on talking about what
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  I tell you are biblical issues because they are biblical issues that have been absolutely politicized
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  in the last several decades. But, you know, frequently they've sent to me over the years and continue
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  some of them saying to me, oh, well, I'll just go but go to jail for what I believe. I keep saying,
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  why do you have to go to jail? Why can't we retain our first amendment rights and how amongst your
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  family and your people leading your, leading your flock and enabling them to and preparing them to
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  go and do ministry and that we have the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion to do so.
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  So I don't give them a free pass, but the church ambassador network has a really unique
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  opportunity. David, I don't know why evangelical born again pastor in the state doesn't want to do
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  it because what we're trying to do is connect pastors to elected officials, particularly state
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  representatives and state senators and to come to Madison, pastor infect today. Well, through this
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  through this time period over the state legislatures and meetings right now over the next couple
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  months, pastors and our team are regularly going to the Capitol taking their Bibles going in,
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  sitting now with staff sitting down with elected officials and say, hey, can I pray for you?
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  I'm speaking to you as a shepherd of the church and you are the shepherd of government
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  and let us know how we can encourage you. Can we pray for you? Would you like to join us in prayer
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  and ultimately earning a earning the right we hope to share the gospel? What an opportunity,
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  pastors like going to to a foreign mission fields, they like going to nursing homes, they like
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  going to jails and do ministry because we're all about the gospel, right? We're all about
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  evangelism. Why not in our state capital where we still have the freedom to do that? We are
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  amazing things happening there, David. I can't, you know, because we respect the confidentiality
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  of all this, but there are just amazing connections being made with staffers and with the officials
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  because the 132 legislators we have in our state capital, the fundamental need they have is the
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  same fundamental need every human being has and that is a relationship with Jesus Christ.
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  So they're doing great things, resourcing them on important issues from a biblical perspective,
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  they're not about policy, not about lobbying, they're there to be a spiritual encouragement to
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  law givers. Okay, really quick, Julian, let's talk about some good news. You mentioned the
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  Supreme Court case on women's sports, West Virginia and whatever it is, tell us about that because
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  that was really good. Well, there isn't, there's an important Supreme Court case that the court
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  actually agreed to take because I didn't know if they would agree to take one on this because
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  this idea of biological males in women's sports has had such division of thought on it, right?
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  And some of the lower courts, you know, they've been all over the map, but they're actually
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  the Supreme Court loves that when the appellate courts in our state and our nation disagree.
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  So they took a case that originates in West Virginia where a biological male wanted to play
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  in high school on a girl's sports team because he was transitioning. And by the way, my
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  worker that is, he was trying to do the impossible, trying to change his things. She can't change
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  her sex. Okay. And so they sued. And ultimately, the US Supreme Court took that case and it is
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  going to be heard this month. And I think this is a great opportunity for truth to come out.
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  This Supreme Court, look, elections matter. I said this sort of grouped the other night.
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  Ruth Bader Ginsburg should have died many, many times before she actually did. But God said,
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  this is her appointed time knowing for well that Donald Trump was still in office and was going
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  to make an appointment to fill that vacancy. And it has made a world of difference.
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  This is a beautiful time for a case like this. Look, this transgender issue and it's huge. And
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  I just want to say to all of our viewers and listeners, I am grateful for David Firazo.
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  I am grateful for this program worldview matters because it matters more significantly than most
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  people will ever understand. But we have to get it rooted in our thinking that how we think about
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  things, how we think about what's happening in this world. It's rooted in some kind of
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  philosophy and some kind of more basic ideology. If our worldview is not rooted in the Bible,
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  we are going to be thinking wrong and it's going to result in wrong actions. And you are
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  exactly right, David. It is going to result in bad votes. Now, elections are coming up here in
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  Wisconsin and around the country. Midterms come up in just about a little over a year.
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  It is going to matter who is sitting in halls of Congress, who's sitting in the Senate,
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  who's sitting in our state assembly or state Senate. And we have a governor's race here.
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  So the worldview matters and people think about Charlie Kirk. How you think about Charlie Kirk,
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  my friends, is a matter of your worldview. Yes. Yes. And by the way, I'm hoping more Christians
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  will get out and vote. And don't assume that more people are because of all the leftist violence
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  we've seen this year, including the assassination on Charlie that maybe people are going to wake up
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  and go vote for the right candidate. Don't assume we need to get more true believers in Christ.
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  Julian, I don't want to run out of time before I talk to you about James Dobson and get your take on
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  his legacy. Dr. Dobson, focus on the family. Go ahead. Well, James Dobson was the reason that
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  groups like ours have now a nationwide impact. James Dobson in the late 1980s, early 1990s
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  saw the value of these little state groups that were popping up to go down and be watchman on the
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  wall in their state capitals from a Christian perspective and start talking about policy.
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  Policy is important, David. Let me just quickly say policy is about worldview. It's just
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  absolutely about worldview. And so Dobson saw the value of that. And in addition to starting this
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  marvelous ministry called focus on the family where he really did try to get people to understand
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  how important a strong marriage and a strong family is. He then brought all these leaders together
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  from all over the country and said, Hey, you guys are all doing the same thing in your
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  various states. How can I help? And so he provided an umbrella years and years and years ago for
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  all of us to kind of he didn't try to run us or own us or anything like that, but they gave us
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  resources as far as, you know, helpful materials on issues brought us together so we can meet together
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  and talk. His vision, David, was astounding. He saw the value of these, let's call them little
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  platoons, if you will, that we're starting to pop up because every state was facing the same
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  issue. James Dobson is another one that I would put in that he was a one of one, one of one,
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  right? By the way, people ask me a lot of time who's going to who's going to replace Charlie
• 25:08
  Kurt? Nobody nobody's going to replace James Dobson. God doesn't do that, but he raises up new leaders.
• 25:14
  He raises up new people to carry his banner. And so we'll wait and see, but boy, James Dobson was
• 25:19
  powerful. He and Shirley just a couple who were devoted to one another, you know, and Shirley
• 25:25
  started the National Day of Prayer idea as far as a separate organization that actually embraced
• 25:32
  how can we as a nation take advantage of what Congress did for us and years and years ago in
• 25:40
  declaring a National Day of Prayer. I think it was Ronald Reagan who made it the first Thursday of
• 25:44
  May each year, but let's not ever underestimate the incredible legacy of James Dobson who after he
• 25:53
  left focus on the family started another program, you know, a radio opportunity because he was so
• 26:00
  passionate about building strong families and warning families about the dangers of things
• 26:06
  like the internet and things like gambling and pornography and all the other things. And so
• 26:13
  the fond memories of James, I met him several times, I always left thinking I have been in the
• 26:19
  presence of something very, very unusual. Yeah, he what a great legacy. Before we let you go,
• 26:26
  Julian, I do want to mention you guys had this article linked on your website. We don't have
• 26:30
  time to talk about it, but Katie Faust, you mentioned her earlier, she spoke for you guys phenomenal
• 26:35
  article guys. This is several weeks back now, early September, but gay marriage harms kids.
• 26:41
  It's time to end it. And here's how. And I will also say and let Julian respond in just 30 seconds
• 26:47
  that just because we believe in God and God ordained a natural marriage between one man and one
• 26:54
  woman that is not hateful, that is biblical and that is the truth. Julian, your final thoughts.
• 27:01
  It's biblical and it's so important because what the people who have paid the biggest price
• 27:06
  for all of this talk about changing marriage in right now in sex and when eventually be changed
• 27:12
  in number are children. And that's what Katie points out in this speech and this article that we
• 27:17
  have linked there. The children are paying the price in huge, huge ways. They're being,
• 27:23
  they're being denied the opportunity to know a biological mother and a biological father on
• 27:29
  purpose intentionally. And so Katie's got it nailed exactly right. Got a return to Mary. Real Mary
• 27:34
  just got designed it. Amen. Jelaine, thank you, Wisconsin family action, this WI Family Action.org.
• 27:41
  And you can get the capital connection. You can get this. And you can also go to Wisconsin or
• 27:47
  WI Family Council.org. A lot of information guys, please check out the websites. Sign up for
• 27:53
  the capital connection. Jelaine, thanks for your time. Thank you, David. God bless you folks.
• 27:58
  You too. Thank you, friends, for sharing. God bless you. And as always, keep speaking the truth about
• 28:03
  things that matter.