Latest / Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan / AI Agents Know Too Much, Codex Builds the Hardware & The Discipline to Beat Busywork
Transcript
- Rodney: Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome to Beat the Odds podcast. Today I have Bryan with me. Dre is not here today, but he'll be back next week. Bryan, how are things going? Brylan: Man, I'm doing well, bro. I mean, last few weeks have been busy. but yeah, this this week has been productive, bro. One of the things I've been I feel like I yeah, go through these seasons where I'm like super disciplined about like journaling and like, you know, actually writing down a plan for the week or the month and like just building my days in alignment with whatever that plan is for the week or the month. and I feel like I had got away from that. I just let the busyness of life kind of like pull me off track for a bit. But I've been getting back in alignment with that and been consistent with that on a daily basis. And it's crazy, bro, like Man, you don't have to do many things. You don't have to do many things every day. Don't get me wrong. Life is busy. There's a lot. There's always going to be more work or something for you to do. But like, bro, if you just stack those two or three major wins a day, bro, that's 15 major wins you can have by the end of the week, bro. And that shit adds up. And so, Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: yeah, I've been I've been I've been doubling down on that, man. But how's everything been you? Rodney: Now I feel you on the on the discipline aspect, sometimes there are certain seasons where I don't know if you felt like this, like you were like more locked in and then other seasons where you get a little bit looser on some of the Brylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rodney: yeah, yeah, on some of the things you're doing. I you know I I feel similar. Yeah, I took 'cause I took a week off. So 'cause I Brylan: Mm. Rodney: took a week off, I kind of pulled back a bit on a lot of the things I had been doing. And but but not getting too lost in it though. Like cause if you if you pull back everything, you just let yourself fall all the way off everything you're doing. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: You're gonna go in the wrong direction. You go you you're gonna go in the wrong direction. So there are certain things, for example, you know, I still am still consistently like trying to make sure that I that I'm going to the gym and you know, but like I said, I I was going to the mall and doing a bunch of random things. And one thing that kept coming to my mind was I really wanted to take a step away from all the stuff in tech, all this stuff online, all this stuff in the industry, and kinda just I don't want to say like this, I don't know the right word, but step into like be a consumer. Like be a be a consumer again. Because like I think that a lot of my biggest successes as far as the apps and ideas or startups, et cetera, came not because I was spending a a ton of time doing Like spending a ton of time like reading all this news, analyzing all this stuff. Needless to say, I've been really impressed with assistance. assistance have been the thing of, I think the thing of the of the last two or three weeks. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I don't everybody knew ages were coming. We all knew that. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: We all knew it. In fact, I think we felt like we already had got them for this year. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: But they took a leap. That just man, it just took a leap. So look, we have a bunch of topics to talk about, but Brylan: Let's hold on, Rodney: I Brylan: but let's let's let's let's let's let's start there. Let's go let's go down that route, right? Because I know that was one of the things that we're gonna be talking about. And I feel like every time we kind of hit on this topic, there's always like new use cases that we've each kind of applied the model to. But yeah, I guess over the last Rodney: yeah, definitely. Brylan: week, yeah, what it i because you're still you're still primarily using instinct or have you added muse to the rotation or and dot? Rodney: Yeah, I'm using Insta I'm using I'm using Instinct pri I gave it dot I gave it one task. I gave dot one task. We'll see how it does. Brylan: Was this a work task or personal? Rodney: per podcast related actually. Podcast related. So so Brylan: no. Okay. Rodney: we'll s so we'll see if it if it if it works. Instinct just works the it works so good for me. Like maybe because like I have a lot of like I I don't know how other people's text messages are but I have a lot of text messages. Like I got a lot of I just my messages, I'm always in my eye message, always. Like, I'm always there. So it's just like that's all I'm saying. Right. Brylan: Bro, I got like a thousand unread messages. I'll get back to Rodney: It's like, bro, it's it's ridiculous, bro. And Brylan: Mm. Rodney: and so instinct is good for me because it's it's it's so e I feel like I can be lazy. Like I'm a lazy texter at this point. I'm really not even a good texture. So instinct f Brylan: So hold on, hold on. What do you mean when you say say lazy? Are you like lazy in terms of like yeah, the clarity of kind of like what you're you're the task you're giving it or what you're sharing? Because if you think about the evolution, like originally there was prompting. And with prompting, like, yes, everybody could kind of like type into this chat pot, but the people who are getting the most out of it were the folks that were like really learning all these different nuances of how to prompt and you know, all that stuff. Do you still find yourself doing that now with like instinct or yeah, just kind of what do you mean when you say lazy? Rodney: I think instinct I think the the medium at which you communicate with AI changes how you use the product. So Brylan: Mm. Rodney: so f at least at least for me, when I was or when I use Muse versus instinct, I feel different texting it in my iMessage. And it just seems easier to always I like like I said I'm always returning back to iMessage. And then additionally, it does like at least for me, I start feeling like I can talk to it with low effort. I can say like logging like handle the stuff with a Verizon. It knows what I'm talking about. Yeah, like I don't have to explain to it the entire task. It understands that I said handle stuff with Verizon. So it's gonna check in my Gmail and then it's gonna ask to log in. It's gonna do all these things. So it allows you not to think. So that's what I see. Brylan: Mm-mm. So do you feel like it does it's it's been doing a great job of like yeah inferring some of those like details you would have probably gave it in the past or some of that additional kind of like thinking process you would have shared or is it coming up with like its own? Like what are what are you noticing? Rodney: In my opinion, it it it's almost never wrong. In my opinion, it Brylan: Really? Rodney: it in my opinion, it doesn't it doesn't do things that I don't want it to do. It it it's it's almost always correct in what I want it to do. I haven't had any Brylan: Interesting. Rodney: mistakes or anything that I thought like of course like if it asks you to review a draft, you might Tell it, you know, a little bit more concise. That that's the main thing I always do. These days, the main thing I'm always trying to do is is make everything very clear and concise with as few words as possible. You know, so Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I find that instinct it it and I'm sure you could do that with Muse and Grokba, et cetera, but to me it feels different with instinct. And in fact, instinct has inspired me to think about a different class of of Devices and just different types of software. Because when you start thinking about this whole world of agents and this whole world of assistants, and basically this whole world of things being able to do things for you. Brylan: Mm. Rodney: So you don't have to think about it. Because I think what has happened to a lot of us, even Sam said to h himself, in his own words, he says. I didn't realize how many of these small tasks were weighing me down, right? And I think that that's the thing that people may not fully see just yet, but this accumulation over time of all these tiny things that are weighing us down. We're all wondering why do we all feel so heavy? Or heavier Brylan: Mm. Rodney: than we remember heavier than we remember, right? Not like we ain't all like, you know, barely getting up, but you know, unfortunately some people. Now we heard about Atlanta, by the way. We should talk about Atlanta real quick, actually. Because that wasn't on the Brylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rodney: that was not on the docket, but that heavy that Brylan: Yeah, yeah, it's relevant. Rodney: that heavy feeling. so real quick, there was a reported a hundred and forty four thousand evictions in Atlanta. I'm not sure if it's this month if if it was in one month, but either way, this the reason why the stat has been going all over the place is because it's the highest in the country. And of course it affects different demographics differently. And so that is crazy. So w it it's it's we're in these strange times where you have this world of abundance being born. This world of autonomy, abundance, solar energy or nuclear energy, all these renewable renewable energy, all these things, right? And then you have the other side, people and at the other side of the spectrum, and like the basic needs, right? And it's like you kind of want like that that crossover is so it's so strange to kind of see happen in real time, but also just I've been seeing videos and I hope anybody in those positions I've I've been homeless before, so I know I know with that not for months, but I've been in that position before, so I want to hopefully those people are finding different ways. But the reason we bring this is because I just think seeing these two different worlds happen at the same time is so odd to me. Brylan: I would say so so I I just pulled this up. So yeah, the number that you just shared, that's over the last 12 months. And yeah, a few Rodney: Okay. Yeah. But I'll say in one month would be crazy. But still it's still high though. It's still the highest in the country though, right? But but if it wasn't a month Brylan: Yeah, by by three by by th by three X, which is nuts. By three X. And think about it, we got New Rodney: Three? my goodness. Brylan: York, San Francisco, LA, Chicago, like all these other major cities. And I think the Rodney: Yeah, they have yeah. Brylan: the thing that's interesting is yeah, they reported so basically Princeton they have an eviction slab that tracks this data, but they reported that This comes out to about yeah, basically one eviction for every four renter households. That is fucking nuts. Like imagine being on the elevator. At any given time when you probably get on an elevator in your building, there's likely to be three to four people on it with you. One of them is getting evicted. Rodney: So Is this a case of Okay, so first thing I wanna say is I hope that this gets better. Nobody wants to see people getting evicted at a high rate. That suggests a lot of things, it opens a lot of questions, but Not to say we need to point the finger, but we we know landlords do not want to evict evict people, right? Like like like I I don't think people get that, right? Like landlords typically Brylan: So Rodney: don't want to evict anybody, right? Brylan: You you you you are correct, but this is where it gets interesting with Atlanta. is with Atlanta, a few things actually put the evictions in the favor of the landlord. And so the cost of filing an eviction is three times cheaper in Atlanta compared to across the country, like the national average. And then the other thing too is, yeah, the other thing Rodney: wow. Okay. Brylan: too is for an eviction to be filed in Atlanta, Atlanta only requires three three three business days after after missing after Rodney: Geez. Brylan: missing that that date. Rodney: So you you're saying there's not a lot of friction to do an eviction, basically. Brylan: For landlords. Rodney: I see, I see. I mean, my point still stands though. I but I see what you're saying. There's a nuance to it because no, they do not want to evict you because they want to make money. But also at Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: the same time at the same time, if it's a quick turnover, then they might look at it like, We can just let you go and you'd be out of here quick, and then we'll have somebody in here quick. As opposed to if it was a higher price and it was slower, i i it it might incentivize them to work something out with you. You know, but but yeah that's some weird stuff. So what do we say about this like this? Kind of like I mean, I'm I'm not one of the people who look at this gap and think this is like some evil plot that's like unfolding. I look at it more so how Simultaneously, you could be seeing such a bright future unfolding with peop when you have a bunch of families and Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: who are going through these issues and and they can't even think about that type. They can't even think about the future. How can you think about the future with all that going on? Right? So, but that's interesting. none t nonetheless, hopefully there's something go hopefully there's something that can be done there. I do think that that number I think that number that you said about It just being cheaper for people to do evictions. I think that is a key piece that they probably do need to change. It should be a little bit harder for i'm not saying a landlord should be stuck losing money, but it shouldn't necessarily be it's super easy to put to make somebody homeless, essentially. That shouldn't be easy to do. That should be like the gravity of it should be a little bit more it should reflect in the in the time that it takes for the process to happen. The gravity of that situation. It should be there should be empathy, I guess, in those numbers. You know what I'm saying? But and but there was something interesting too that happened though at OpenAI. So an employee put a a Brylan: That was freaking nuts. Rodney: listening device It was I I first thought it was it was tape. Yeah, I thought I thought it was wrapped up in tape. It was wrapped up in toilet paper. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: and they put it in the meeting room behind the TV. I guess they even have it on video because they're so paranoid espionage and all that. They have recording devices everywhere, clearly. but this audio device was using a C studio microphone which you can get online it's it's like some do-it-yourself microphone funny enough I had recently bought one like two days ago like for for my own purposes funny enough for the purpose of building a listening device but not for the purpose of spying on people see see that's the Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: thing about technology right isn't that the weirdest thing about technology you can make something And it if you used it can be used either way, Brylan: Mm. Rodney: right? Like see now that makes it look like you start thinking about a world where everybody's recorded and er there's a record and everybody can search it and it's and that's how that comes off. But what what do you think when you saw that? Brylan: Yeah, bro, I think I was a little skeptical, man. and the f the fur the first reason why I was skeptical is just like, once again, this this this was an engineer and eng engineer engineer at OpenAI. So I'm assuming because of how they brand themselves, that the smart some of the smartest people in the world work there. They have a rigorous interview process, and ultimately what comes out on the other side is Someone that like, yeah, they they really think shit through. This doesn't seem Rodney: Yeah. You're right. Brylan: thought through at all. Like, the fact that homie wrapped it in toilet paper, like, so we didn't we didn't we Rodney: Hmm. Brylan: didn't we we didn't we didn't go a step ahead and be like, okay, once I plug this into the TV, what if someone just happens to peek? The toilet. Rodney: But but he didn't y yes, yes, but but but see, think about this, right? He probably didn't know that there was a video camera in the back of that shit, bro. Brylan: Which w which brings me to my other point. I'm skeptical. Rodney: Because they're c because there's no way they can figure out who made that without that camera. They need that camera to because they made it I know what you mean. They made it seem like the models able They they made it seem like Yeah, yeah. Brylan: You read the post. You read the post, bro. Rodney: They they they made it seem like the models They Yeah. Brylan: But hold up. We we gotta ask this for all the listeners out there that are going into the office or been in the office, been in any type of conference room. When the last time you looked behind the TV, when did they start putting fucking cameras behind the TV? Rodney: So so okay, right. So so that's what makes it kinda weird, right? 'Cause it's like what like Brylan: And was the camera all twenty four seven? Rodney: I guess so. Like so here's the thing, right? Brylan: Yeah, br actually break this down like because yeah, you're you're a security person. So obviously you gotta Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: think about this digitally, but also a lot of this, you know, security, cyber like these attacks also happen, you know, due to mishaps in the physical world. This was a physical world thing, so Rodney: Yeah. Yeah, I I'm f yeah. The funny thing is is I'm definitely the type person to go behind the T V and and like even I remember in my in my apartment complex. It was a clubhouse and had this huge clubhouse, luxury clubhouse with this huge TV in there. And I was I was like I looked in the back and I was like, I can just put a Amazon Prime back here and I can just chill out of this hole. And then nobody like literally nobody ever nobody ever touched it because it's like why why would they, right? They they they but see in his case, right? I don't Brylan: Hold on, hold up, hold up, hold up before you go there. Because we need to talk about the pe think about it. Bro, the people who deal with the technology in conference rooms are IT managers. We're not, and I'm not saying that to knock IT managers or whatever, but their job is to make sure that the TV is connected to the network, all that shebang, bro. They usually once they do the setup, unless there's a problem. They not checking behind that TV, bro. Rodney: I I honestly don't think it I don't think it was worth Brylan: So where'd it come where did camera come from? Rodney: I I don't think this was worth it. I if this is if this was a real a engineer, which it appears to be, because it's he's saying he they're saying he was arrested. so Brylan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Rodney: I mean they can it's I mean I it'd be hard for to them for them to make that up. It just looks to me like what's happening is is that they were wanted information, but here's the thing. This is not an efficient way to get a lot of information. You're not gonna get some groundbreaking information that is worth blowing up the spot of an internal engineer that you've already planted into the company. Like like you Brylan: Mm. Rodney: and like you're not getting what are you getting? She's she th so that's one of the things I started thinking about when I started cr creating this recording device for for the purpose of just My own actually just my own interests. It's not I don't I don't even have this big dream. I have this interest of in my room, I want to know what I talk about and what I say, and if there's a guest in here, etc. What do we say, etc etc? I wanna know. I wanna have that on I wanna have that, right? Like the text. I wanna have the the text, right? So so that's my own personal right. So I look at it like okay, a lot of people are gonna look at this and think, this is crazy, this espionage, but really, what could he really have got? Like Brylan: Mm. Rodney: it's a meeting room, it's a conference room. There's not it's it's not as if the stuff that he really needs is gonna be spoken out loud. In a 30-minute meeting. It's just not gonna happen. And then and then there's probably I'm just saying there's more produ I'm just saying I'm not impressed by by this. And then I do think that the the toilet paper made it look more suspicious. I honestly think that the device itself, just like as a chip, may have looked less suspicious than than the toilet paper. Cause if you go behind a TV, right? And you see a device that's hooked up, but it has like a chip it look kinda weird, but it's like it's elect it's electronic. So you're like, whatever. If you see something wrapped in toilet paper, you're gonna wonder what that is, bro. Right? Or I don't know, I'm just saying. Brylan: Bro, no, no, no. I I I bro. I th I I think I think you're spot on, right? And so let's let's let's try to understand what he possibly could have got, right? So yeah, they they I think it was like September 27th or 28th, right? That's when Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Brylan: that's when they said he planted the device. And so he was an engineer on their product team. He's from Saudi Arabia. And if we think about, okay, we just found out about this yesterday, so October 13th. So between September 28th and October 13th, really not even out, because I think they ended up arrested. He gets he got arrested like a few days later or something like that. What announcements did they make, right? Which may give us some insight into some conversations that may have been happening, but also like, you know what I mean? Rodney: I see what you mean. I see what you mean. You're trying to say maybe yeah, maybe the timing of it potentially Brylan: Yeah, and so like, okay, they they they have that it correct me if I'm wrong, but they had that dev day because that's where they announced like dots. And then they Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: rolled out the is that when they rolled out like the decision API, so like their Jeff competitor. Also they rolled out was it a it wasn't a was it a new model for Astra? Is it did they roll that out too or Rodney: yeah, yeah, I think actually they I think they wrote out like us another soul model. five Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: point f I I think five point one I think. so it's it's more efficient than I think it's as intelligent or just about as intelligent as Astra, but it costs a lot it costs a lot less. so Brylan: So let's assume no th those were the conversations that were happening in this conference room. Along Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: with, I think at the during this same period of time, Trump did get all the executives of the AI companies to come together, right? So maybe in that conference room, the you know, executives of OpenAI got together to discuss how they wanted to approach this, what they would, you know, be a part of or support, et cetera, et cetera. But to your point. What information potentially could have been shared in that room? Rodney: It's not worth it. Not worth it. I I see them doing it because they just want to see if they get lucky. They just want to see maybe they might say something, but this guy is Saudi, he's a Saudi national, and his motive is unclear. It's not what what what is where he's from? What do they want? What exactly do they want? What exactly like I think this is just a a situation where they had the opportunity to maybe see and funny enough if if it was developed correctly which I'm sure it was because he because he probably just used open AI. if I had to guess they probably saw I mean maybe he was smart enough to do this not with Chad not with Codex but he he might have used Codex to make the software Brylan: So, so actually, because I was just looking this up. So going back to their whole thing around like our models traced who this was, no, it was connected to his Chat GPT codex account. And specifically though, specifically, it was his wife. And so yeah, at least on the FBI if you go to the FBI website and read like the the press announcement Rodney: So so this so this guy he used codex to make this device Brylan: His wi through his his wife's account. Rodney: and and and he saw It's funny because I I I won't lie though, Codex is the perfect thing to use because I I'm almost done. I'm almost done. Hey, low key, w when I seen this news come out, I was like, why'd this come out in the midst of me making this shit? Because I don't want nobody to Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: start thinking about what I was thinking about. Cause I was thinking about it from a like living my life. I was living my life, I was thinking, it'd be nice to have this. Brylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rodney: h hopefully nobody see this and then but yeah no if you use codecs yeah I'm that's what I'm using. I'm using Codex real easy. Real easy. You can you can Brylan: So so let so let Rodney: make real devices. Everybody ev listen everybody you can make real devices that are in the real world that do things. If you have creativity, you have ideas, you want to you can make things that connect to the internet, connect to your phone With le not a lot of effort. But yeah, go ahead then. Brylan: No, no, no. I want I want I want to build on that in two two different ways, right? So the first one is for the audience, if you've never been in a makerspace or a research lab of any sorts, it could be at an accelerator or college campus or whatever, just just Google it. Just Google it. Or if you if you if you are a student or grad student or whatever and you haven't been to the one on your campus, go. When I was at Northwestern, bro, I'm just thinking back to like R makerspace and like the AI lab the robotics labs that I used to go go to, right? In our makerspace, we had all these different types of, you know, like 3D printers, right? Like in one of the buildings, they had a 3D printer that literally would print like, you know, metal and like wood material. And it was literally industrial scale to where it could it could build a fucking house if it wanted to. 3D print a house. And so if we think about that, right, like, okay, what do you need to be able to 3D print? Okay, one, you need the printer, but before you can even need the printer, you need the software to be able to design it. Okay, the bottleneck there was most people can't think in space. They can't three Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Brylan: or they don't know how to use the software. And so then you had all these different programs where right now 3D printing is basically, you know, driven by open source. So you could literally go download what other people had built. All of that has changed with Codex. Where now, if you know what you want to build, all you got to do is tell Codex, like, hey, here's the software to design it for me. Send it to the 3D printer if you have one. And you can you can literally make that happen. And then even the same Rodney: Yes. Brylan: with robotics. Gemini, so Google just rolled out their recent Gemini 4 Argonne model, but what they showed with it was just by giving it a video recording of them playing. you know, cornhole, it was able to take that video, break it into photos, learn from it, then write like write and create its own simulation environment to train a model for the robot, upload it to a server, plug it into the robot body that it already had to then take actions. And then basically over time that robot got good at cornhole and was making it every single time. You used to need to have the not like the specific knowledge of knowing how to do that, you just need to know the direction. And so and s and so Rodney: Yes. Yes. That's that's a big that's a big piece. Huge piece. Brylan: And so and so a lot of a lot of a lot of these like points that you had to connect before, I feel like these up these Rodney: You Yeah. Brylan: recent models have solved that, bro. Rodney: Bro, literally what I'm about to make, I was I always had the capability to make I've made devices in real life before. I've worked at I worked at Ford with real cars. I worked at I worked at Bird with real life scooters and I've worked I worked at I worked Brylan: You have worked on like stuff in the real world. Rodney: at Nima with a real life food sensor. And you know, so I I'm not I'm not somebody who has never who's only been on software and or but like I've I I've always been able to bridge both and I think that what people like there's like a blind spot right now. There there will be a wave of internet devices, definitely. Because and this maybe leads into the refrigerator thing that you and Dre brought up, but basically It is so easy comparatively because in the past you would have to have somebody that understood the the the device design, they understood the components, and then you have that the the Brylan: You need an electrical engineer or a mechanical engineer, like Rodney: yeah, the and then you need a firmware guy, then you need Brylan: Yep. Rodney: a software guy, cause that guy's connecting like th there's so many people that you need just to now. The only reason why I know about that Seed Studio, that from that guy who got caught, is not because I just knew about it. I is because I tried to I started to build my own listening device. That was the concept. It said, okay, this is the component. Here's the software. We'll we'll use we'll create some custom software. We'll you can flash it. It it's like showing you step by step how to do everything from the design to the components to the firmware to the software to the app to the it's it's you can make a ring competitor in a week, less than that, to be honest with you. You can if somebody wanted to compete with ring right now, it it take it would take them no time. Now, mind you, will they do well? That's a different that's a different story. But the point is is that ideas like that. the next devices that we'll all have. because a lot of people are focusing on personal devices, rings and wearables and things that they're on you. But there's a whole there's gonna be a whole transformation on what happens in our homes. And it's gonna get interesting. But what's going on with this refrigerator stuff? Brylan: Yeah, so I know I think this is i it it it actually came out around the same time that anthropic I said I think they published some research about like TVs or AI models or agents breaking out and hacking like TVs. yeah, so basically over the last week, I think it was it might have been like CNN who broke the story, came out and said that, yeah, on October 11th, hackers were able to and this was in France across multiple food food restaurant chains hacked into seven hundred refrigerators across these different you know restaurants And what they ended up doing was you know, it it may seem harmless, right? It may seem harmless. They ended up hacking the system and then removing the basically the floor, the limit on how cold the refrigerator could get. So the refrigerator ended up getting so cold at these restaurants that all the food spoiled. And then, yeah, as a result, these restaurants ended up losing tens of millions of dollars worth of food in their inventory over the course of two days. and at the same time, Because the refrigerator was dealing with the system being out of balance because it was just too cold, some of the refrigerators like caught on fire, and some of these restaurants experienced like, you know, fire damage and things of that nature. Once again, on the surface is just all the these refrigerators got too cold. But we saw the impact was economical. And if you think about like You know, luckily these are chains and so their economics are a little bit different. But imagine that happening more than once. They're going out of business. Right? And Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: so and so I think, you know, obviously we've touched on a few topics so far around, you know, the personal agents, open AI. Now we're talking about the refrigerator hacks. The underlying thing, or I I think theme right now, getting ready to go into 2027, but has been. Yeah, the big theme of 2026 has been security. Security and privacy. And what does that look like when these agents are able to start to just navigate the world on their own? But yeah, what are what are what what what what are your what are your thoughts on this? Because yeah, I don't think they've yeah, pup published you know, what models are Anything around that nature on like you know what they used. it'd be surprising realistically if they used a frontier model because you know a lot we do know a lot of the open source models have caught up. but I think once again this just goes to show that like you know when mythos came out that you know kind of woke up not only the tech industry but the world in general around like you know cyber security. But let's be realistic. The only people that probably took that serious were enterprises and also governments. There's so many small businesses, so many service businesses that don't have technical people inside the company. A restaurant probably hires somebody, a technician, when the rest when the when the refrigerator breaks down. It's not like they Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: have, you know, someone working in the kitchen that knows, shoot, you need to change this, or you know what I mean? You Rodney: I see what you're getting at. I see what you're getting at. Yeah, I I see. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: I see what you mean. Somebody that can actually fix these new classes of problems. Brylan: D exactly, exactly, exactly. Rodney: And it's not gonna just be IT. It's not gonna it's gonna be yeah. Or maybe IT Brylan: Ex And so and so I guess from Rodney: maybe or maybe IT will have to raise their bar. Brylan: What you mean? Rodney: Like so like I I mean you're you're basically saying that these these places are vulnerable, right? They they have these systems in place to where if something happens, they can't easily resolve it, right? So then the you Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: Yeah, so then usually that's usually the IT's job, right? Somebody has they they have these technical people or or just somebody who knows a bit more. But these type of issues are a bit more complex than most IT professionals kind of resolve. So that does kind of suggest are is that gonna create a new set of job where somebody can come in and be a bit more technical. Like they're like IT but they're not like software. Is it a n is is Brylan: That's that that that Rodney: it a new role? Or is or is is it a new role or do or do IT or do they just have to do more? Like I w what's the new Brylan: It it it might it might be it might be a mixture of both, right? Which creates an interesting world of like, yes, the bar has to rise for eight for IT, but it may actually require s actually this might be some type of company, actually. it may require some type of service business or or something of sorts where it's like, yeah, hey, as a restaurant, you wouldn't have thought about having someone internal to, you know, guard all your systems or what but The refrigerator that used to not be digital, needed Wi-Fi or any of that, everything in the Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: kitchen is now connected to Wi-Fi. You know what I mean? And Rodney: Right. Right. Brylan: so, and so what this proved is, yeah, that person can't be a call away. Because even with you being a call away, you Rodney: You know, a a agents yeah. Brylan: lost 10 tens of millions of dollars in a day. Rodney: Yeah, agents are gonna definitely it's funny because it's it's a digital world with less rules. The the the Brylan: Mm. Rodney: the the rules are not in place or the everything so agents are gonna be able to do all these things. yeah, it's gonna get a little tricky because small things like changing the temperature of a freezer or a fridge. can be devastating depending on what somebody's using it for. It's and and so stuff like that is it's interesting to see how that could how it's interesting to see but yeah this whole thing about privacy and this whole thing about hacking definitely there's gonna be a lot of noise around this. One, it's just that people will inevitably be tricked. People will inevitably have more consciousness of what is in their environment. So for example, Flock is a company that is recently gotten so much heat for something that has been pretty much going on for the last 10 years. And so the only thing that's really happened is is that people's consciousness of the of of the flock cameras has raised up. But Flock itself never really changed much. Or even like ring Brylan: Mm. Rodney: cameras. I see people against ring cameras all of a sudden, right? They never were against it. But some people are against it now just of that standpoint of people have all these cameras everywhere. And so I see where people are getting uncomfortable, but they're but there's they're reacting so late. They're like they're reacting so late. For for example in the ring case, right? People react once it's almost ubiquitous. It it it's it's all it's almost rings almost at the level and and Google Nets are almost at the level where. you almost see some type of doorbell technology on every door in probably like five years. almost every Brylan: Mm. Rodney: door. And you know what I'm saying? So they're almost already there. And so by the time people even see these things, and even th these Alexa devices, like people know that their phones are listening. They know that their Alexa, they they they know, but I think the consciousness of all of all this I think the consciousness or the awareness of how not private we are is starting it will continue to increase. and people will probably feel a bit more vulnerable than they feel right now. And Brylan: So Rodney: yeah. Brylan: yeah, let me cause that's a really good point. And I think kind of going back to what were you know talking about earlier with like these personal agents, what is really emerging almost as a product differentiator is this idea of permission. But to give these systems permission to your bank account, it could be to DoorDash or Instacart so it can order you groceries. It could be like today, I gave it permission. to my psychiatrist's web portal. That way it could book me like, you know, appointment or, you know, whatever. Like, so now it has like, you know, a my password for that. Right? Like Part of giving permission means you're giving up some level of privacy. It Rodney: Yes. Brylan: and so we do know that in order for these AI agents to be effective and do what we want them to do, they need context. The downstream it and the the downstream of the permission Rodney: Yep. They need to know a lot about you. They need to know a lot about you. And and it's Brylan: is the context. And so what does what does privacy look like? Rodney: 'Cause if somebody gets it's it's it gets tricky. Because the truth is, is that what chat GPT knows about you And it's only been a around for a while. Imagine what Google knows. You know what? We got AI now. Let's plug let's plug let's let's plug Bryan Bryan's account. All everything that we know, all his data from the beginning. Let's plug it in. Let's see. Like it's just a lot a lot of information that just cut like it's it's a lot. Brylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rodney: It's it's more than we probably think about more than we probably think about. And so It gets weird and and another thing that gets weird is if people get access to your agent. So I don't ha Brylan: Mm. Rodney: I I'm not really too concerned at the moment 'cause I don't I I have my account set up in a way to where Yeah, I I I I I believe in a fine r a a resilient financial system to put it like that. And so If somebody gets access to your agent, your agent can do all these different things thinking that it's helping you. Send money to this person, do this, and and and call this and book this and book that. And you may not even realize, you know, 'cause it has access to all your contacts. And then also you might be able to ask it certain questions. And instead of somebody like back in the day, a hacker used to have to hack you and then kind of like search everywhere to figure out important stuff just to see if you if there's anything important in there. Now AI makes it as simple as Can you tell me this? Can you tell me that? And you can like ask it questions on somebody. So these systems are gonna have to be smart about I guess I you know and I and you know I made a project on this. I don't know if I put it on my site. Let me see if I put this on my site actually. This is some research that I did. I didn't even put this on my site. But this idea of I don't know why I didn't put it on my site. It's this idea of contextual AI AI understanding. Like so imagine some I had got access to your to your chat GPT. And they start saying, can you tell me about where I was at last week? And they says, yeah, you were you were over here, you know, based on your calendar. And then then then the hacker says, okay, you know, was that what was that my house? And then it'll be like, no, no, no, your house is over here. That's not where your house is at, it's over here. Here's the address, right? And then the hacker says, Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. can you I forgot. Like is is my phone number end with this or does it end with that? And then like, it it it so it you see how you could kind of almost come off as if you're friendly and innocent while you're just collecting information, right? So It's social engineering Brylan: Mm. Rodney: of the right. And it seems like a like a a user would ask that, right? A user might ask some a user might ask some of these things. So but the what I've been thinking about is well I don't think about it that much, but one concept I I thought about was AI aware AI AI awareness, like boundary awareness or so or something like that, where it is it's every time it Every basically every time it gives out certain information, it's saying, Okay, that's one strike. Like it it like it's starting to so sort of like just like how you would do if you are if somebody is asking you a bunch of questions, you say, Okay, you answer the question, okay, cool. But in your mind you'd be like, Okay. And then they ask you another one. Brylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rodney: And in your mind you say, Okay, I'll answer that, but what like you try to figure out where they're going with that. And then they ask you the third one, you're like, Okay, I see where I see where they going, no. We're not doing that. Right. So I I think that Brylan: Yeah yeah. Rodney: that's how the AI has to think. It has to have an awareness of what is because we you can't have it so that a hacker is spending hours and hours getting a bunch of information about you because they stole your phone. Because like it's no, that's not. Or it's just not. It it can get really weird. but the idea of vulnerability, I don't know, man. Brylan: Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, but but but before you go down that. You you yeah, when you said like still the f that's actually fucking wild because think about it, right now if you log into like your investment account or like your bank, it requires like some form usually some form of like you know Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: two-factor verification or something, right? or some pin or facial idea. If I go if on your phone and hit Claude, it just opens up. If I go to your text and your phone just happened to open up and instinct is there, it just opened up. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah, no pin code, nothing. No pin code. Damn, do you think you should be it should we it sh they should allow you to have like a pin code, maybe? Brylan: I I'm just g I'm just following the path you laid out. Rodney: They probably should actually. But but you know they won't because Gmail doesn't. Gmail doesn't. Google like so they're the in their minds they're gonna be like, now why why should we do that? But i i this is so much this feels different because email companies know not to send certain information through the email, right? But with what with with AI, you could have your financial accounts connected. So a hacker can go on there and be like, you know, how much money do I have right now? Brylan: Facts. Rodney: And then it's it's it's gonna ask, it's gonna tell you, yeah, you got this, you got this, you got that, you got this, you got that. Right. So it's gonna Brylan: And but hold up, depending on the permissions you gave that bank account, that agent for that bank account, it could be like, shit, Zell, Zell so-and-so. Rodney: Right right. Brylan: Okay. Rodney: Exactly. Brylan: Like Rodney: Yeah, right, right. So so it it there's there there's there's gonna be sad stuff that happens. It like I there's gonna be bad stuff that happens. I I think that though that people should lean into a lot of this stuff though. I think that people are right to be kind of worried because there there is gonna be issues. Like there's no doubt there's gonna be issues. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: I think I think that's the thing that people get stuck on is that they see all these issues and they're like, nah, but it's like nobody's saying that there's not gonna be issues. Like there's gonna be a lot of issues. But I think the the benefit, like you said, every permission is a step up and capability. Most people have still not gave their agents the card. I gave agent my card And my life has only gotten better. My life has only gotten better. I gave it the car. It it's it's just it's just better. No, not the car, a car. That's a very important thing. Don't give it your main car. Don't give it a car that has a balance that is controlled. And so none nothing crazy. But being able to be out and have an idea. Let me damn, I forgot to get this. Let me get let me buy this. yeah, I just had this idea. Let me do this. yeah, I gotta schedule a haircut. Let me let me schedule that real quick. But like just being able to text it you feel like how do you not feel like a CEO? That's literally how it's like. Brylan: Mm. No facts, facts, facts, facts. Rodney: You get you get to ha be a C Yo, everybody gets to yo. People don't see the world that's unfolding is that everybody will be able to act wealthy. Yo, cars will pull up whenever they want. Robots will be doing most of their work. Manual work, unless they don't want to. Their food, everything like their digital work. They're not gonna you're not gonna be moving random things on your screen. You're gonna have general idea, and it's gonna get done however it needs to get done. You ain't gonna worry about that. Just like how a CEO would do, you're not gonna have to worry about that. You will have a higher view. Higher view. So everybody's going to a higher view. the the a higher a higher view. You can't have a high view while you're going through an eviction. And that's not. All at that to blame the person going through the eviction, they were born into the system at w and so wherever they're at, you know, it's a function of choices, but also there's a there's a system in place. You know what I'm saying? Of course they would want to get a different a different outcome. But the point is I'm saying is that when you have general distractions that come from the way that the system is set up, unless you're on the good side of the system, you're not going to see, wait, hold on. This stuff will allow people to feel like they're a founder or CEO or just someone running a business. Because they'll be having these agents do all different types of stuff. Now, something that was brought up, I think, yeah, I think your music agent had this in the in the in the the brief for the podcast. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: Do people even want agents? I think it said that. And Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: I think what it's saying is that the numbers are not showing that yet. Brylan: Yeah, yeah. And so let me let me just kind of give some numbers, right? And we can kinda discuss it, right? Yeah, the reality right now is there's eight billion people in the world and if we just use chat GPT, Gemni, things of that nature as some form of proxy for you know how many people globally have used it. you know, they've thrown out that like, you know, they have a billion monthly active users, things of that nature, right? And so I think, yeah, Karpathi, he specifically came out and kind of like laid out these numbers for the funnel. So that's kind of what I'll be using. But let's assume two billion people are using that, right? And so 25% of the world are have have have used some form of AI, right? So free chat bot. There's six, there's still six billion people that haven't touched it, right? And then let's assume of that two billion people, right? Yeah, one percent, one percent, so twenty million today are paying for it, so they have a sub some form of subscription and are using it for real work. Right. That's still a good chunk of people, but that's it's significantly smaller than the the the the the two billion, but also the eight billion. And then assume, right, across OpenAI, Anthropic, all these like frontier labs, you know, there's a few tens of thousands of people that have access to the models that the public don't have. Right. And you know, they're doing whatever with that. Yeah, what what really does this end up becoming? Because I think, you know, the narrative with all the AI investors in the companies is like it's early innings. We're going to grow into this being everywhere, and everyone is going to like use it. That may end up being the case, but against the backdrop of negative AI sentiment, data center projects being paused, You know, even going to like AI and hardware. So like the flock situation, cybersecurity, like we touched on it. I think where I'm a little bit skeptical is like I I do truly believe that like two things can be true at once. Where AI will end up being everywhere because it'll just be in every product, every edge device, our phones, computers, etc., whatever. But if you're not paying for it, you are not getting the full fucking experience, bro. Like, so take for example, if if someone, if someone Rodney: That's true. That's true. That's true. Brylan: wanted to go do what you explained earlier in terms of leveraging codecs to build hardware and so like could could they do that with the you but Rodney: Yeah, they have p h twenty twenty a month. Twenty a month, twenty a month. Yeah. Brylan: once again we got two billion people that are on free chat GPT Rodney: Right. Most, yeah. Brylan: Can you do that? Rodney: Yeah. no. No, you need to pay twenty a month, at least. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: At least. And I and yeah, and and everybody doesn't see the value of that. Even though it's it's so co to be honest, it's twenty dollars Brylan: What do what are what are they not seeing from your perspective? What yeah. Rodney: is such a it's su it's so underpriced. It's so underpriced. Brylan: Can I can I push back? Rodney: You can if you want to. yeah. Brylan: So I I I I I I I agree with you. I think from an American perspective and maybe some of the European country perspectives, twenty dollars, that should be like a no brainer for most people. I was listening to this podcast, Invest Like the Best. He had the founder and CEO of Nubank. And I wasn't even like I've heard of Nubank, but I wasn't super hip with what they're doing. But he was talking about Brazil and specifically how I think they're now serving like they're the bank for like thirty million people in Brazil, which is freaking nuts now. from nothing. But he was like, they started off with twenty dollar credit cards. Because in Brazil, twenty dollars was basically feeling like a thousand, right? Rodney: yeah, yeah, I see your point. No no for sure. I mean price adjusted to where the region is. You know, price is price adjusted to the region. Because I know, for example, I think you can get Chat GBT for like five dollars in India. So price adjusted pri pri pri Brylan: damn. I didn't know they were adjusting it regionally. Rodney: Yeah, yeah, price adjust price adjusted for the reason, but but twenty hours in America, but I think is not useful if you don't have It is I it depends on the type of work you do. I I find that if you are doing I th Brylan: Does it? Rodney: I think it does. I think it does. Because because even if you're an athlete, right? Or entertainer or your blue collar, whatever it is, you kinda need s something else that happens. on the side for it to be useful to you. So for example, if you're if you're an athlete, some athletes have investment funds on the side. They're investing in stuff like that. So yeah, it can be helpful for them. maybe it's helpful for them already. Who knows? I d I don't know. But I've seen some athletes who have talked about AI and stuff like that, but these people are are actively investing. Then you have the ever you know say the average person Who yeah, I don't think they see the benefit of it. And because there I really don't have the reason why they can't. I I think the main thing is just that we live in this world where there were a lot of bottlenecks to things we've wanted to do. And now we can see those bottlenecks evaporating. And it's like The value is obvious. And then if you extrapolate this type of growth across the across industries, you can't help but see, this is gonna transform every industry. I mean, even the fact that law firms, not not all of them, but OpenAI partnering with a bunch of law firms, that's gonna change how the law is done. There's gonna be a lot of different changes. I don't know why people don't see the value, but it's not I I I don't think it's my job to convince people or it's not and that that's their job to figure out how to sell their own software, right? Like that's their job, that's their goal. They need to figure out how to sell it. But for us, it's obvious because once you use it for software or once you use it for a site or whatever it is that we're doing in our jobs. We can naturally start using it on other things that we that we in our personal lives. So now this tool that I'm using every day for work, I naturally can see how there are certain things in my regular life that I can use it for to stop. And but the one thing I will say though, if you can get on instinct, which I think is invite only right now. If you get on that, it is free. It is free for the moment. It won't say free, but that's the best experience that I think consumers could get, in my opinion. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: because even if you had but it just depends on how people are living their life, right? A lot of people are not living their life with a Google Calendar. Like they people are not the the that that seems simple, but it's just not extremely common. There are people who they have Brylan: That's real. Rodney: people are managing their lives the hard way. There are a lot of people who are managing their lives the hard way. They're remembering this phone numbers and dates and this is coming up and this and that. Like they they're they're managing everything the hard way. And if only they knew that them to manage the schedules of your your your kids in your class or just all these different things to manage your school, to manage all these different things, is ten times easier because there's tons of tasks that you don't have to think about. And you could just focus on being like all that, like think about like all this administrative stuff that a principal has to do. But a principal would rather be out talking, popping into classrooms, going here and doing this and doing that. And then all the things he most of the things he has to do, he could just text it. He could just text it. Like right now, they do have assistance and they do have people that help them. But imagine if you can just focus more on your job instead of these wasted tasks that we have been doing. What I love about this wave is that work will be able to get done without all the extra nonsense. Brylan: Mm. Rodney: All this manual stuff that we're doing, like what are we doing? We're clicking tabs, we're opening up spreadsheets, we're doing what are we doing? Like we this type of work that we've created, this is crazy. Wait to see how this all unfolds. Things will be simple. Concepts will be simple, intent will be simple. You will be able to soon control your your whole computer. Just just by typing because right now if you you can control an instinct agent, right? And it spins up computers. But imagine if you could just do that with your own computer. You your own computer, you could just t text it. And then the agent on your computer, it's just and you I guess you could do that. You could you can do that with Hermes and all these different like you can I guess you could do that. So Brylan: Mm. Rodney: nah, nah. Nah. It it it's gonna it's gonna go to another level and people will get employed at these companies. What I want to see is these new companies pop up and people get employed at them, right? I also want to see more devices, right? Because one thing I like about this new device I'm trying to build is that it's making me think how easy it is for people to come in here and come up with something useful. That we all want for fifty dollars. You know, eighty dollars, like just come out with something that helped like somebody has to have something in their in their head. And if like if everybody knew how easy it was, we'd already have it. Brylan: Yeah. Yeah. I think nah you you you really brought up a good point around like yeah, just people doing things the hard way. yeah. Rodney: Yeah, everywhere, everywhere. I'm trying to do everything easy as possible. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm trying to do everything. This is the engineer of laziness. I'm trying to do everything as easy as possible. So part of me falling off the discipline is me seeing how little I can do, but still like I'm trying to see, like, okay, well if I take off Brylan: At a high level. Rodney: yeah, I'm trying to see if I remove a bunch of these different things. What's the minimal I gotta do to be at h be at the high level? And AI is a big part of that. Brylan: Nah nah nah facts bro facts bro like yeah definitely definitely a very similar experience for me man I think yeah something that something that's gonna continue to be interesting is how do all these things that we've discussed on the pod today come together right where we've talked about the agents we've talked about Hardware now being something that people could tap into. We've talked about permission. We've talked about privacy and security. Like, you know, things could get very scary, right? Where people should really be thinking about this. Like, and I think You know, just as much as just Rodney: Right. Yeah, yeah. Brylan: just as much as like these enterprises are thinking about defending themselves, let's not act like the Trader Joe's right across the street is tapped in with mythos or Palo Alto Networks and you know knows how to use those type of products, right? Like someone think it thinking about the refrigerator project, somebody probably could just walk into Trader Joe's today, man, and probably accidentally plug in a USB, get access to her fucking systems, and then next thing you know all the groceries are fucking like spoiled or something. Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: Right. But in that same Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brylan: vein, if that's going and and I love that you use the word like intent, if that's not your intention, if the negative consequence is someone losing tens of million dollars a day, the opposite it's Newton's law. Every reaction has an opposite and equal reaction. Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that. Brylan: And so like, yeah, I I like even one thing though, I I I haven't done this, but I'm like, I I I know what it looks like, right? I I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'm an expert or know all the details, but it's like, say for example, if I did want to do something that was like CPG, right? Or you know, something that was like a physical product. Well, guess what? I know you I Rodney: Easy, easy, easy. Brylan: know you need to prototype it. I know you need to share the prototype Rodney: Easy. Brylan: with the manufacturer. I know how to create a brand, like. Rodney: Bro I imagine, imagine and I don't wanna use ages as an excuse because we s we still you know, it's just that. but imagine being twenty one with all this shit. Like, I think the only thing about being twenty one right now is feeling like It's harder than before and then feeling like It's harder to be noticed. Cause it does feel like the bar for an idea wasn't that high before. Like I've Brylan: Mm. Rodney: have honestly felt in the last two or three years, like the ideas that we thought were mind blowing in 2018, they they they don't seem like anything anymore. The ideas we thought in 2013 were huge. They don't seem like shit anymore. So so if you yes, Bradley, if you wanted to create a CPG product, it'd be it'd be nothing. You know what I'm saying? Imagine being twenty-one with all this stuff. Like with all this stuff. Anything that you want to make. See, right now, yeah, I don't want to use ages as an excuse 'cause I'm like, 'cause and I guess I'm not, 'cause I could I've s 'cause I'm building something for myself, a real life product, Brylan: Yeah yeah yeah. Rodney: et cetera, et cetera. But it c I'm approaching it I can tell I'm approaching it different than my younger self. When you're younger, Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: it's kinda like you feel like you can dedicate a lot of time to just whatever. You you feel like you just have a an abundance of time. You know what I'm saying? So and so there's only so much time I'm gonna put into like a a a a device I'm not gonna sell, you know, in my older years. But these I wanna see competition in the real world. And again, I wanna ask you this question. So yeah, Brylan: Was that Rodney: you you you basically you're like, okay How do all these things connect? Which is very interesting, right? Like these internet devices, automation, agents, privacy. How does all this connect, right? Hack hackers, hackers, even like some of the stuff I'm working on in my personal life. And like I said, I looked at that device as something interesting. I'm like, okay. You have a ring on your door on your door. Some people have these NES cameras on the outside or inside of their house, all these different places. It just only does it when somebody walks past, though, right? Why not just have something that always is recording? in the locations that you feel like it should recorded, right? And then obviously. There's benefit there, but then you have the people who are like, Well, will people use those to do this and to do that and to do this? But then I think about it and I say, I'm not against privacy, but I always I've started now to be more curious about what do people think is gonna happen if somebody hears what's going on? Like like If somebody hears what's going on in my room, like what they gonna hear? It's like you're what you gonna hear? You know what I'm saying? It's like you get right. What you gonna hear? Yeah, it it's it's come on. It's it's it I don't feel like that's something, but but for me it's a benefit because I'm like. Brylan: Hold hold up hold up hold up. Let me let me play devil's advocate, right? Let Rodney: yeah, okay. Brylan: let's and you know, I'm not saying this is you, but let's let's say there's a man, you know, Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: he could be dating somebody or married or whatever. Rodney: Right, right, right. All right. Brylan: He got the little ring camera, and Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: his shorty happened to get access to his like, you know, muse or like instinct agent. Rodney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brylan: It happened it happened it i you know, it happened to be able to plug into plu plug into his, you know, camera. Rodney: Yeah, it could plu yeah, I can see it plugging in, yeah. Yeah. that's a good idea. MCP and MC that that's a good idea. Go ahead though. Great idea. Brylan: And now and now and that and now she like here's my here here's an image of me. Whenever you see someone else Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: pop up into the room, let me know. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Brylan: And so and so and so she basically using his agent to get into Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: his systems, watch any of the side chicks that he may right or wrong, right or wrong, coming in. Rodney: Yeah. Bro, I mean look, look, okay. Yes. There's gonna be a bunch of new things that pop up. Like, so my thing is this. I'm not suggest here's the hardest part about the world we do live in. Even though you can make anything. Everybody can see how something gets made. And because everybody can see it, they're always trying to stop it. Like so I I noticed this. It doesn't matter what what what's new being made. There's always a if it's gonna get made, then this. What about this? What about that? And it's always been like that. Like I I go back 13 years ago when we were talking about delivering food. People literally said nobody will trust anybody delivering food. They literally said nobody will trust anybody getting into a car. They you literally used to say nobody will trust people. They will not trust staying in people's homes. They used to say all these things. And and here's the thing: they used to say those things, but I feel like the the the voices are louder now. This new when stuff gets built now, people are all up in it very soon. For example, AI data centers. Nobody really cares. I I guarantee you nobody cares. I guarantee you. There's a small percentage of the people who are out there that actually care. But most people, they will say something for a matter of a few months and you check back up in two years and they will not care about data centers. I guarantee Brylan: Mm. Rodney: you. They won't even be thinking about data centers. But if you see the AI technology being made, it's something that's talk And so with with something like for them, a ring camera, right? Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: What they what they what they did so good is that they made a product in such a way where it's it's taken almost 10 years for people to talk about it negative like in a negative way. Now people are like, wait, ring cameras might be somewhat negative, but it's too late now. It's been ten it's like it's Brylan: Facts, facts. Rodney: way too late. It's way too late. They they they successfully created Cause you could take a ring, right? And you can put it anywhere, technically, right? You could put a ring in your your bedroom. You could put a ring in your bathroom. You can put a ring anywhere if you want to. They can't force you to put it anywhere. So there is there is this weird world of of people will be able to see a lot of stuff. Yeah, if your girlfriend opens her eye. But see, a girl your girlfriend would have to know what instinct is. So don't tell her. Don't say don't tell her what that is. You know what I'm saying? But but also the vice vice vice versa, right? Like and I and you know I noticed about instinct, it it it they do assume too much trust. Cause one of their new friend features is like you know, friend people on instinct and people that you trust and share information, but I'm like, nah, this could get sticky. This can get little sticky because if y'all instincts are like connected and it's sharing Brylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rodney: it's certain information that you didn't want to go to is like so-and-so went here and do you want to join? Like, nah, like you wasn't supposed to, you are like it can get tricky, bro. It can Brylan: Bro. Rodney: get tricky. Brylan: Nah, this yeah, just seeing how all this ends up evol like evolving is gonna be very interesting. Yeah, there's gonna Rodney: I'm excited about it though. Brylan: there's gonna be winners and losers, but I think right now is the the time to play around. Rodney: I think so. Cause at the end Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: of the day, the current battle is the AI companies. It is what it is. That that's that's everything. So in the meantime, people should be building, playing around, so that w whatever the next big thing is, people are ready with their ideas or whatever they're working on. And when the narrative cause it's not like people talked about Wi-Fi for fifty years. Like once it's made, it's made. It it is what it is. Like so we're in the process of making AI. I love how it's unfolding. What I'm looking forward to seeing is what I think is going to be the ideally you want the experience of living in America to be as seamless as possible. ideally. Right now it's very there's a lot of friction everywhere. There's a lot of friction because of prices. There's a lot of friction because of the way roads were built. The rate well the way housing is stuck. There's a lot of friction because of government sites being being weird or or s or our government services being odd. Essentially I think this technology will be a part of making the system seamless for everybody. And that doesn't mean that everybody can just blame, okay, one day I want to press a button and I want $10 million. What I'm saying is I think we can get to a place where the system is seamless and and there is a spot for everybody. Like the system picks up everybody essentially. Like in some way. but not in a socialist way, but more so in a way of there's when you have these like cause think about it, right? Muse right now is looking at your life from a higher level, bro. From a higher level, like this. It's saying, okay, hmm. This is Brian. It's looking it's so it's it's it's like gathering this all this context and it's at the top and you're at the bottom. And it's like, okay, that's Brighton. So it's managing, it's trying to manage and help you your life, right? At the top. Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: But it's doing that with thousands of other people, right? So every day it's getting better at helping people, managing people, and it has a high context over everybody's life. It has a super it has super context. This is not like this, this is very, it's very abstract. People don't talk about this. It has countries of my life, your life. But it's super context. It's like super intelligent context. And so go a level higher. What can it see that has never been seen before because of all that context of everybody? You're going out of bro, the levels you're going, it's it's it's so it's you're going to a super a super intelligent level. It it's not gonna be, I don't think it's I don't think people get it. You're going to a super intelligent level now. Because I like it's I'll I'll be honest with you. Because we are approaching it and we're not there yet, it it it it to me, I at least for me it feels a bit hard to grasp. But every individual Brylan: Hmm. I'm curious Rodney: Yeah Brylan: No, I'm I'm c I'm curious your perspective on, you know, we saw agents, but now we're starting to see the early days of agents being added to groups, especially with like, you know, instinct. And so we we probably Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Brylan: can assume that like agents and groups will probably be like the twenty twenty seven kind of like theme. not only for, you Rodney: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Brylan: know, personal and social, but also for companies and teams as well. Rodney: Yeah yeah. Brylan: So playing that thought process that you were just, you know, articulating out of like, okay, it's kind of this panopticon over the individuals, but now when you got groups over all the different group dynamics, what could Rodney: Mm-hmm. Brylan: go right? What could go wrong? Rodney: With the group dynamics? Brylan: Yeah, when an AI understands the group better than Rodney: right, bro, bro, that's what I'm saying. It it it it's this is super intelligent. This is and not only will it understand one group, it can understand thousands of groups at a high level. So like so it's going at levels where it it's this is not normal levels it's gonna be at. Like the way This is all gonna get strange. Cause it it's like a super controller essentially. Because it understands you, it can understand your group, it can understand other groups, and then hypothetic man, I don't know, man. It depends on what what what angle you wanna go now, right? You wanna go down privacy angle? Do you wanna go down an actual real life scenario that plays out? Do you wanna go down like it just depends? But there's a super intelligence, and it's very hard to grasp for me. Maybe for people listening, maybe it's easy to grasp. But for me, think about something that that is smart enough to know everything about your life, your friends' lives. Your family's lives and then other people's lives collectively in their own little bubbles at a high level. That's like a god like bro, it's like a god, bro. I see why I see why there's this that there's this issue at Anthropic where they're thinking that that that they're building gods. I see why. I I I see obviously they're not. But I see what they're thinking 'cause it's so high a level of what it's gonna know about everybody. I think we're gonna discover things, hopefully good things, about about everybody. Brylan: I guess yeah, to just to start to wrap things up. Yeah, how do you how do you how do you how do you see that being applied to yeah just curious like the world of dating? I know Bumble Bumble got Bumble Bumble Rodney: yeah. Brylan: Bumble got acquired for I think one point six billion dollars. Rodney: Really? This is recent? Brylan: yeah, this was literally yesterday. So they're being, you know, Bumble's a public company, but they got acquired to be taken private. And it was by one of the partners from Sequoia Capital, and then another guy who used who was an early engineer at Meta and became the chief revenue officer at Meta. And so they came together to form, once again, one of these emerging, I don't even know if you want to call it startups. Rodney: I don't see it's a it's a failing company. I mean it's it's it's declining user engagement, falling revenue. I mean it's it's it's a it's it's a w Brylan: So now they they want they want to make it AI native and then focus it whatever Rodney: Right. Brylan: product direction they want to focus on. But yeah, just kind of curious. Rodney: So e everybody so so so look, I had an offer, not an offer, but I had an invite to join one of these dating companies. Three hundred thousand dollars a year with stock to start on a AI native experience. Now I didn't actually entertain it because I'm not trying to be the guy who's working on dating, even though I think I could add a lot to that. I just don't think that that's what I would want to you know, I just didn't I I wasn't interested, but you You I have a bunch of thoughts on how AI can affect dating, but you know, where should I start? Like I mean, yeah, we we we definitely wanna wrap up soon, but but maybe how might AI affect dating? Well, in my opinion, I think it could be a lot more simple. I think you could have a dating experience on your phone. that is more meeting based. maybe agreed upon activities. agreed upon dates. Basically, what I would try to do is create an AI native experience that focuses on people meeting meeting the most. I think the biggest thing is that you have is is that you have time, people who waste time. So they're either on there and they're not really trying to meet anybody or they're on there and they're nervous to meet people and you know they never really get over that hump or whatever it is. And I think you need people who are a bit more serious and you need to design things so that it's focused on scheduling people. Like like basically scheduling a date should be very simple, right? So instinct makes that easy and just going out with your friends. But you could imagine a similar experience with like a new date or something, right? Where the the actual scheduling and all that is simple because obviously we already know women don't really want to do that. So that's on us. But if that could automatically be easily taken care of through the nature of how we met. W if it was bumble tinder, whatever it was, and they had this AI experience, maybe it could automatically schedule based on our calendars, if we had them connected, whatever it is, I don't know. And then I think Yeah, I think it can just be it could be a lot more simple. I think it can be more personalized, sending you people that you might actually be interested in. but I think the interface should probably not be this I I think the swipe stuff and and the the liking should probably go away. I think I actually think a text based would be better. Brylan: Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm interested to see that how that emerges, especially like given that acquisition. I thought that was I did find that very interesting. Rodney: It's kind of a disappointing outcome for them. 'cause just like a f it man, I'll just say what it is. It's just like Bumble was a fake company. It's a fake company that somehow got to got to IPO. It Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: it it's it it brought nothing new. It it it lied to women, it lied to women, Brylan: Well, their whole thing was women women got to go first. Rodney: and it lied to them. about the about that being empowering, what they found, and this was supported by women that I had met in real life and know in real life that is not empowering to make the first move. So they so their whole app got away with a good marketing tactic that convinced women of all ages that by preventing men from making the first move and putting the first move in women's hands that the women were more empowered. And that's not what happened. In fact, for me, I loved Bumble. The reason why I love Bumble is I get I it at least in the past, I would sit back and then the messages come to me. And so that that felt wait like so I in my mind like this is empowering them because they're sending me the message first. it's crazy, right? But it also exposed something, and we can start to wrap this up, but it also exposed something about women, right? Let's say you have y there's all these different dating apps, right? There's a million, but let's just say simple ones. Tinder and bubble. And you can say hinge two if you want to. But that's let's just say the simple ones. For the most part, if you were in the message to somebody or or or a woman hey, you would probably never get a response. That's probably not gonna work. I don't care I don't care if it's Instagram. Send somebody send a woman hey with nothing. Just just that. And see if she replies back. Right? I don't care if it's Instagram, Facebook, Tinder, I don't care. On bumble, you know how many women start off with just hi or hey like that. That's like the main thing. It's like this is crazy. Like it it's it's so funny how it's just so funny when it so okay, you get the the ability to empower, and then no, and then everybody says the same thing. It's like Brylan: Mm. Rodney: no, so they eventually removed it, and it it and I they also removed the web version, and I should have seen this acquisition coming. Cause I thought they roomed the web version because they're gonna take things more serious, but they probably just didn't see the the the benefit from a revenue standpoint. It they probably do they they might even got rid of some engineers. But yeah, man. anyways, look, we talked about a bunch of things, agents, dating apps, how privacy and security is gonna unfold over time and even this ne this new internet of things thing and we'll see how it all unfolds but I think that in general what people should take from what we're saying is is that there is we talked about Atlanta too which we we obviously hope everybody finds a a way. They're dealing with a lot of problems that they're not gonna have the luxury right now to think about some of this stuff that we're talking about. But I believe though that things are going in the right direction and we will ideally, I know it's hard for people to be this optimistic, but I feel optimistic about this. I think that we will be able to resolve a lot of these critical problems like homelessness and inflation and rising costs. And I think some of the things we talk about are some of the early signs. And I know it's not always clear how it's all gonna connect to that. But that's what I see unfolding. I see a world where everybody can relax and stop thinking so much. They can go to the mall and enjoy the experience, but I haven't checked their card. They can go to the grocery store and buy what they need within a reason. without having to think, without having to think. I see a a world where thinking is reserved for things that are important. Not your default state of mind. You shouldn't be thinking about whether or not you can afford a huddy run. That's just like this is Brylan: Yeah, yeah. Rodney: a waste. It's a it's a waste of thought. Like you shouldn't be thinking about what you're gonna eat every single day. Every single day you're thinking about like you just shouldn't be think that just we're wasting a lot of thought and we're stressing we're getting so stressed. And we're there's no risk. We're not in danger. Nobody's in danger. We're in a good place and we just gotta keep looking forward. But yeah, sign up for the Patreon, follow us on all Instagram, Twitter, wherever, subscribe to our YouTube channel and we'll be back next week for sure. but yeah, try to stay optimistic about the AI stuff. If you're worried about data centers, well, so what? So what? Brylan: Bro, they're they're good they're they're one, they're going to get built, but I also encourage people to go educate themselves on the components of a data center. And Rodney: No way's gonna do that, bro. Brylan: bro, go educate yourself on the components of the data center and Rodney: The moment you you say go educate, what do you think people gonna do, bro? Brylan: You're right. You're right. You're right. Rodney: The moment you say, the moment you say go educate, people they gonna close the app, bro. They gonna close the app. They're gonna be on the next podcast. Whatever, man. Brylan: Hey man, I wish him the best. Rodney: Hey, that's crazy. Alright, we'll we'll we'll wrap on that. We'll up on that. Brylan: Alright, bro.