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The Interesting Etylmology of Goodbye · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 86 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: So this isn't goodbye.
• 0:36
  I Hate Talking: But that is our word or phrase of the episode.
• 0:39
  I Hate Talking: Oh, OK.
• 0:41
  I Hate Talking: I didn't know where you're going with that.
• 0:43
  I Hate Talking: All right, well, hopefully I caught our listeners off guard too.
• 0:45
  I Hate Talking: I, I was in full transparency.
• 0:48
  I Hate Talking: I was not really ready.
• 0:50
  I Hate Talking: I was scrolling on my phone when I heard that and I had to do a double take like what?
• 0:55
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 0:57
  I Hate Talking: So it's not goodbye, and that is because of this enjoyable hobby that we do together that we derive value from, as well as hopefully our listeners deriving value from as well.
• 1:10
  I Hate Talking: And if you do, you always can like, share and subscribe.
• 1:13
  I Hate Talking: But we will move on with our word or phrase of the episode, and that word is goodbye.
• 1:21
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 1:21
  I Hate Talking: So, I think the definition is probably pretty well known that it is a particular word that people say when they are leaving somewhere or bidding someone farewell, that they would use this as a particular word when they are departing.
• 1:42
  I Hate Talking: Right.
• 1:43
  I Hate Talking: It is a good time, we can talk about later.
• 1:46
  I Hate Talking: Is it hyphenated?
• 1:47
  I Hate Talking: It is not hyphenated, nor is it two words.
• 1:51
  I Hate Talking: It is one singular word, goodbye.
• 1:54
  I Hate Talking: Is it different when people hyphenate it, or are they just making an error?
• 1:58
  I Hate Talking: I'm pretty sure that's an error because definitely the space is an error.
• 2:02
  I Hate Talking: So I think if you hyphenated it, it would be in the same vein that it is erroneous that you would just write all the letters goodbye as one singular word.
• 2:13
  I Hate Talking: OK, so it's true, like in the dictionary, one word, goodbye.
• 2:17
  I Hate Talking: Correct.
• 2:18
  I Hate Talking: All right.
• 2:19
  I Hate Talking: Now there is the word bye, which could be used as a shortened form of goodbye, where you just say bye to someone.
• 2:29
  I Hate Talking: And then that also is another word that is used within sporting that if a particular player or team has a bye, that they are not required to participate in that particular -- bracket or that -- round.
• 2:47
  I Hate Talking: B Y E, yes, same spelling.
• 2:50
  I Hate Talking: That makes sense.
• 2:51
  I Hate Talking: Like, bye.
• 2:52
  I Hate Talking: I'm not seeing you.
• 2:54
  I Hate Talking: We're not seeing you play.
• 2:55
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 2:56
  I Hate Talking: So the etymology of the word goodbye, I think is where it is interesting.
• 3:03
  I Hate Talking: OK, tell me about it.
• 3:04
  I Hate Talking: So would you like to wager a guess on where it came from?
• 3:08
  I Hate Talking: Oh, that's a hard one.
• 3:11
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye.
• 3:12
  I Hate Talking: I feel like England would say like farewell.
• 3:16
  I Hate Talking: It's not fair.
• 3:17
  I Hate Talking: It hasn't, I don't know.
• 3:20
  I Hate Talking: I don't feel like it's.
• 3:22
  I Hate Talking: I feel like we always have to go back to like Greek or Latin and those sort of things, but I don't feel like it fits either of those.
• 3:33
  I Hate Talking: Well, you're on the right track because it comes specifically from English and it's actually a mashup of different words and letters that were used previously and then became transformed to the word that we now use in the modern English, goodbye.
• 3:49
  I Hate Talking: OK, so what words was it initially?
• 3:52
  I Hate Talking: So originally a person would say this upon their departure or when someone else was departing and they would say, God be with ye.
• 4:01
  I Hate Talking: OK, for that in books, OK, and then that in writing became shortened to G O D.
• 4:11
  I Hate Talking: B W Y E.
• 4:17
  I Hate Talking: So like how we're like, be right back and we're like BRB.
• 4:22
  I Hate Talking: Oh, I had to, wow, I didn't think about that, BRB like the AOL years.
• 4:28
  I Hate Talking: So they had shorthand like that back then.
• 4:32
  I Hate Talking: Yes, it's specifically in writing because you wouldn't say God BWE that would actually be.
• 4:41
  I Hate Talking: Harder to say and take longer, but within writing in order to form a shorthand, it was just The letters all mashed together, G O D B.
• 4:55
  I Hate Talking: W.
• 4:55
  I Hate Talking: But they still would spell God out like out of respect or I suppose so.
• 5:02
  I Hate Talking: And they still spelled yee out too.
• 5:05
  I Hate Talking: So it was just the.
• 5:07
  I Hate Talking: Be with that was shortened to BW.
• 5:10
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 5:14
  I Hate Talking: So it's shorthand for God be with thee.
• 5:17
  I Hate Talking: And then those letters, I guess, became transcribed at some point and it just became goodbye.
• 5:24
  I Hate Talking: I'm -- trying to -- like the GOD I guess became transcribed as G 00 D and the B was still there and I guess the W just got dropped altogether.
• 5:37
  I Hate Talking: And then you have the YE.
• 5:39
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye.
• 5:40
  I Hate Talking: OK, so the W turned to an O and got moved one space.
• 5:46
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I guess that's, you could say that too, but.
• 5:48
  I Hate Talking: That is how we arrived at our English word goodbye.
• 5:52
  I Hate Talking: Strange because that, that's a lot of steps to get there.
• 5:55
  I Hate Talking: It is a lot of steps, but it also does explain why other languages don't have similar words for a farewell, where you could have farewell, but like a or chow or adios, those are going to have more of a normal formation of Goodbye in historical languages.
• 6:20
  I Hate Talking: What do you mean by normal formation?
• 6:22
  I Hate Talking: They'll be related to words within the etymology.
• 6:28
  I Hate Talking: So you'll have similar words with.
• 6:31
  I Hate Talking: Similar meanings that are adjacent to that versus English where you have goodbye versus farewell that have no relationship at all because they were derived completely differently.
• 6:43
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 6:45
  I Hate Talking: So that is our word or phrase of the episode, goodbye.
• 6:49
  I Hate Talking: You can always remember that, that perhaps when you are saying goodbye to someone that you are really wishing them, God be with you.
• 6:58
  I Hate Talking: How weird would we be?
• 7:00
  I Hate Talking: We did some weird stuff with our kid.
• 7:04
  I Hate Talking: We still do probably, but when our kids were young, we did weird stuff with them.
• 7:09
  I Hate Talking: Like we made them shake hands with people and when they said hello, like hi, and they'd shake hands because I thought it was so cute, and they just thought it was normal -- and it ended up getting dropped off -- because, well, maybe it should be normal.
• 7:22
  I Hate Talking: Well, it should.
• 7:23
  I Hate Talking: But also you don't expect a one year old to come up and shake your hand.
• 7:27
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 7:27
  I Hate Talking: Oh, it was so cute though, and it was a crowd pleaser.
• 7:31
  I Hate Talking: But what I'm saying is like, how funny would it be if instead of saying goodbye, taught them to say God be with thee?
• 7:38
  I Hate Talking: Like that's just so funny in my head.
• 7:41
  I Hate Talking: If we just started telling everyone that when we see them, like if I'm in the Target and shopping and I'm like, thank you, God be with thee.
• 7:50
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, but I don't know if you would normally say goodbye to a person that's working at the checkout counter.
• 7:56
  I Hate Talking: Would you?
• 7:57
  I Hate Talking: Thanks, have a great day.
• 8:00
  I Hate Talking: I say that, right, but you don't say goodbye.
• 8:03
  I Hate Talking: Now, goodbye.
• 8:05
  I Hate Talking: I wanna do it to like people I talk to on the phone now.
• 8:11
  I Hate Talking: Once in a while, I had a conversation with someone, I won't say who, but it was a professional conversation, not like my career is on the line, but like, We weren't friends and.
• 8:25
  I Hate Talking: When we were hanging up, I'm like, bye, I love you.
• 8:27
  I Hate Talking: And then I was like, 00, that was embarrassing.
• 8:31
  I Hate Talking: I just hung up.
• 8:31
  I Hate Talking: And I think they understood, but also it comes so second nature to me for whoever I talked to on the phone.
• 8:39
  I Hate Talking: That, that was pretty embarrassing.
• 8:42
  I Hate Talking: But I could tell them God be with thee.
• 8:45
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 8:46
  I Hate Talking: I don't know if I really say goodbye in normal everyday conversations.
• 8:50
  I Hate Talking: I will definitely say bye as the shortened form of goodbye or see you later or have a good one.
• 8:58
  I Hate Talking: Those would be my typical closing remarks when I'm on a phone call or departing from.
• 9:05
  I Hate Talking: Particular social event.
• 9:08
  I Hate Talking: I feel like almost goodbye is aggressive now.
• 9:10
  I Hate Talking: It sounds like goodbye.
• 9:12
  I Hate Talking: Like that sounds like we're done.
• 9:14
  I Hate Talking: They put a period on it.
• 9:17
  I Hate Talking: OK, yeah, it seems harsh.
• 9:19
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, what was that game show where the lady was like, goodbye.
• 9:22
  I Hate Talking: I don't know.
• 9:24
  I Hate Talking: Oh, there was some game show where if they struck out on the questions or no, it was a trivia game and it's sort of similar to like the weakest link.
• 9:34
  I Hate Talking: You are the weakest link.
• 9:34
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye.
• 9:35
  I Hate Talking: Maybe that is it.
• 9:36
  I Hate Talking: OK, right.
• 9:39
  I Hate Talking: You are the weakest link.
• 9:40
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye.
• 9:40
  I Hate Talking: Yes.
• 9:41
  I Hate Talking: Was it a girl though?
• 9:42
  I Hate Talking: It was a girl from like England, so fit right in.
• 9:45
  I Hate Talking: But I highly doubt that she, it is a little bit aggressive, but I highly doubt that she was meant God be with you, where she was like, you are the weakest link.
• 9:54
  I Hate Talking: God be with you.
• 9:55
  I Hate Talking: I would say, right, I'd be with you.
• 9:59
  I Hate Talking: That sounds opposite.
• 10:00
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I don't know the last time I heard like an actual goodbye without it being not a threat, it's not a good, I guess aggressive, it would be the right word.
• 10:08
  I Hate Talking: Or like, goodbye, like super emotional, like, this is the goodbye, like last time, period, final.
• 10:17
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I don't think we use that word, do we?
• 10:21
  I Hate Talking: I don't particularly think that I do, so perhaps it has fallen out of usage within the modern time that we live because I guess it was popular in the 1800s, 1900s, but maybe it is falling out of usage now, right?
• 10:40
  I Hate Talking: Cause if you're saying goodbye to someone, you're saying like, this is the end of our relationship or when someone passes, you often hear like, this isn't goodbye, this is see you later, and stuff like that.
• 10:52
  I Hate Talking: That I'm thinking that this is a super aggressive word we don't hear actually.
• 10:58
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps so.
• 10:59
  I Hate Talking: Now there is some legitimacy to that where goodbye does typically indicate some sort of finality that perhaps you are saying, see you later to this person for the final time, where that is the final goodbye as it were.
• 11:16
  I Hate Talking: But That is not how it was intended when it was originally formed because certainly God be with you would not be aggressive or mean spirited when you're saying that to someone.
• 11:32
  I Hate Talking: Hopefully not where it's like God needs to be with you because, no, it's usually a well wish to the person that is departing or from which you're departing, similar to like Godspeed or farewell, meaning literally.
• 11:47
  I Hate Talking: That you want to have a situation in which you fare well.
• 11:54
  I Hate Talking: There's someone we know and love who has a tendency to say, I'm done talking.
• 12:01
  I Hate Talking: And just like leaves, it's like, oh, OK, you're done talking, and it's just their way they process it, and they're honest, and I love it about them, and also it's not necessarily culturally acceptable, and I feel like it's so sort of similar to that.
• 12:18
  I Hate Talking: As somebody saying.
• 12:20
  I Hate Talking: I'm done talking and they leave versus someone saying goodbye and they leave.
• 12:25
  I Hate Talking: It's almost the same in my mind, the same thing.
• 12:28
  I Hate Talking: Now, if someone says bye.
• 12:30
  I Hate Talking: bye bye, kind of like, yeah, that's fine.
• 12:34
  I Hate Talking: But the goodbye.
• 12:37
  I Hate Talking: It sounds very harsh.
• 12:40
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so.
• 12:42
  I Hate Talking: You, our listeners can weigh in on this and let us know if you think God.
• 12:47
  I Hate Talking: Oh, I was gonna say God be with you.
• 12:50
  I Hate Talking: I think that's a nice one.
• 12:51
  I Hate Talking: That's a nice one.
• 12:52
  I Hate Talking: It's weird, but it's, -- I -- was tripping over my own words.
• 12:55
  I Hate Talking: I was going to say that if you think goodbye is aggressive and or has fallen out of usage, you can let us know in a comment or email or text message because it does seem that in our own personal experience as these two hosts that are talking to you right now, that goodbye.
• 13:14
  I Hate Talking: Has fallen out of common usage and if it is used, is perhaps a bit aggressive.
• 13:19
  I Hate Talking: OK, look it up.
• 13:20
  I Hate Talking: I wanna see how often it's used because, yeah, I didn't realize I had such strong feelings about this until now, but I Don't like goodbye.
• 13:31
  I Hate Talking: Now I, I know this.
• 13:32
  I Hate Talking: And even as an example, when we started this podcast, this recording.
• 13:38
  I Hate Talking: I said that I was shocked when you said goodbye, kind of scrolling.
• 13:44
  I Hate Talking: I wasn't really engaged in what we were doing.
• 13:47
  I Hate Talking: And then when I heard those words, I paused and like was like, what?
• 13:51
  I Hate Talking: And I think that shows that in my head, goodbye is such a finality, like.
• 13:58
  I Hate Talking: harsh ending that I was like, wait, are we done?
• 14:03
  I Hate Talking: Like, are you mad?
• 14:04
  I Hate Talking: What's happening that it caused me to put my phone down and look at you.
• 14:08
  I Hate Talking: And so I think in my head, as I'm, I'm literally saying this out loud as I'm processing it.
• 14:15
  I Hate Talking: But I think, I think goodbye is a very negative finality, so I think I now am anti goodbye.
• 14:25
  I Hate Talking: And tell me about it, more about it.
• 14:28
  I Hate Talking: Well, you are right, we did skip over our favorite Oxford language dictionary in our dictionary definition, and that particular dictionary says that goodbye is defined as a word used to express good wishes when parting or at the end of conversation.
• 14:45
  I Hate Talking: And according to Google Ngram viewer, it actually has increased from 1970 quite steeply up to 2019 and then has steadied off, so it actually has more mentions since the 1970s up to current time.
• 15:05
  I Hate Talking: Now maybe that's because God be with you was being used before that.
• 15:10
  I Hate Talking: Before the 7.
• 15:12
  I Hate Talking: Do you think it was being used in the 1960s?
• 15:14
  I Hate Talking: Nope, I was wrong.
• 15:16
  I Hate Talking: So, God be with you as well as God be with you.
• 15:20
  I Hate Talking: I Not very popular.
• 15:24
  I Hate Talking: It barely shows up on the Ngram viewer results, so that would be pre 1800s, OK.
• 15:28
  I Hate Talking: As a side note, when you're talking about the 70s and the uptake, which is super interesting, I'm trying to process why.
• 15:36
  I Hate Talking: We watched, it's the holiday season, and we watched Charlie Brown's Christmas Tonight as a family.
• 15:44
  I Hate Talking: We're intentionally taking time throughout the week to do a Christmas movie or a game or something just like our family, no other activities, no other distractions, and so we're doing that, we watched Charlie Brown Christmas tonight and one of our kids was talking about how good the graphics were for how old it was.
• 16:06
  I Hate Talking: They're like this mom watched this when she was a kid.
• 16:09
  I Hate Talking: And so I was like, well, your grandparents watched this when they were kids, and they looked it up and Charlie Brown's Christmas aired in 1965, so their papa was the same age as one of our kids.
• 16:25
  I Hate Talking: And so they were shocked, like, papa was your age when this came out.
• 16:30
  I Hate Talking: And that was striking to them, but they were super impressed by the graphics, and that was 1965.
• 16:37
  I Hate Talking: In 1970, Goodbye got popular, right?
• 16:41
  I Hate Talking: Indeed, so color television was popular before goodbye.
• 16:46
  I Hate Talking: -- Did -- Charlie I have no idea.
• 16:49
  I Hate Talking: I did find as I was looking at the definition where people theorize that the extrao came from and that was added to align with other popular greetings like good morning or other things that you may say when departing like good night.
• 17:06
  I Hate Talking: OK, can we, is this too much of a tangent?
• 17:09
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye and good morning are the same thing, right?
• 17:12
  I Hate Talking: Obviously talking about different times of day, but I feel like it's the same thing.
• 17:18
  I Hate Talking: Is there a different origin for good morning?
• 17:20
  I Hate Talking: I would guess we can check.
• 17:22
  I Hate Talking: I would assume that good morning just means literally it is the morning and a particular greeting of good.
• 17:30
  I Hate Talking: People say good morning.
• 17:32
  I Hate Talking: They do say good morning.
• 17:33
  I Hate Talking: I hear good morning.
• 17:36
  I Hate Talking: I also hear just morning, morning, right?
• 17:39
  I Hate Talking: So that's true.
• 17:41
  I Hate Talking: I hear morning often, but I often hear good morning.
• 17:44
  I Hate Talking: If I hear good morning.
• 17:45
  I Hate Talking: It doesn't make me put down my phone and look at the person.
• 17:50
  I Hate Talking: I'm not shocked, like, oh yeah, good morning.
• 17:53
  I Hate Talking: So that one seems less aggressive to me.
• 17:57
  I Hate Talking: I'm known multiple times, I've done it.
• 18:00
  I Hate Talking: Countless times where we'll say we'll be at church for an evening event.
• 18:06
  I Hate Talking: I did this last week.
• 18:08
  I Hate Talking: And we're at an evening event for church, and I say hi to someone, and I'm like, good morning, and they're like, 00 wait, good night.
• 18:17
  I Hate Talking: Like it was like 6 o'clock at night.
• 18:19
  I Hate Talking: So it was pretty embarrassing.
• 18:20
  I Hate Talking: Everyone laughs about it, but I'm so used to saying good morning at church in the morning.
• 18:26
  I Hate Talking: That when we come back at night.
• 18:29
  I Hate Talking: I instinctively said good morning.
• 18:31
  I Hate Talking: Interesting.
• 18:33
  I Hate Talking: See, I have like a physical fear of making that kind of faux pas that.
• 18:38
  I Hate Talking: I will not make that mistake because I am so intently focused on proper interactions with people.
• 18:46
  I Hate Talking: See, I'm not though, and then we just all laugh about it and I'm like, oh, what's.
• 18:51
  I Hate Talking: Indeed.
• 18:53
  I Hate Talking: So, oh well, I wish I had a little bit of your fear.
• 18:56
  I Hate Talking: It would help me.
• 18:57
  I Hate Talking: Well, that's why we make a good podcast hosting team.
• 19:02
  I Hate Talking: So good morning actually is also a contraction from a previous archaic expression, which was, quote, I wish you a good morning, and then that just became shortened to good morning.
• 19:18
  I Hate Talking: And then I guess in the modern day we've shortened that yet again to just morning.
• 19:22
  I Hate Talking: So that is where that particular phrase came from, and I'm sure it's the same for other good and then the time of day.
• 19:31
  I Hate Talking: So good afternoon, good evening, and so on and so forth.
• 19:35
  I Hate Talking: Even that would be funny though if we taught our kids, if we started telling someone, like if you went to work tomorrow and you said, I wish you a good morning.
• 19:43
  I Hate Talking: What would they do?
• 19:45
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, they probably look at me strange, but.
• 19:48
  I Hate Talking: They just go about their day and wouldn't really think anything of it.
• 19:51
  I Hate Talking: Would there be any different interaction between good morning or morning?
• 19:56
  I Hate Talking: Mm, there's not much difference.
• 19:59
  I Hate Talking: They wouldn't respond differently.
• 20:01
  I Hate Talking: No, I do think that good morning is a little bit more chipper that versus like a morning like you're just -- more -- somber.
• 20:08
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, exactly morning as you're yawning, exactly.
• 20:12
  I Hate Talking: good morning.
• 20:13
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I don't know if I've ever heard you say good morning.
• 20:16
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I, that's too chipper for you.
• 20:19
  I Hate Talking: Do you say good morning only in response to other people saying good morning.
• 20:23
  I Hate Talking: So if I said good morning, you would say good morning.
• 20:28
  I Hate Talking: I said morning.
• 20:30
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I'd just say morning.
• 20:31
  I Hate Talking: Like that, yeah, again, it's the interaction with people that I'll just reflect that is usually the best course of action.
• 20:40
  I Hate Talking: To avoid embarrassment and faux pas.
• 20:43
  I Hate Talking: Exactly, I was gonna say I stick my foot in my mouth all the time, as y'all are aware, I'm sure, but I don't change my conversation based on who I'm around.
• 20:56
  I Hate Talking: So, I think it's good that you do because culturally, it's beneficial.
• 21:03
  I Hate Talking: But also I like that I don't, because then people know who I am.
• 21:08
  I Hate Talking: So you're saying people don't know who I am?
• 21:11
  I Hate Talking: You want me to answer that?
• 21:13
  I Hate Talking: That's probably true, -- but I'm -- OK with that of you.
• 21:18
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 21:18
  I Hate Talking: I don't even think I know fully who you are.
• 21:21
  I Hate Talking: Probably not.
• 21:21
  I Hate Talking: Maybe I don't even know myself.
• 21:23
  I Hate Talking: That's probably true.
• 21:25
  I Hate Talking: So one final that's true, we're on the journey of understanding.
• 21:32
  I Hate Talking: So, one final thing that I think is interesting as it relates to goodbye is the silent goodbye.
• 21:41
  I Hate Talking: OK, tell me about that.
• 21:44
  I Hate Talking: So this is actually more commonly called a French leave, can also be referred to as an Irish goodbye or an Irish exit.
• 21:54
  I Hate Talking: And that is a particular departure from a location or event without informing others or without seeking approval.
• 22:02
  I Hate Talking: OK, so I've never heard it be called a French leave.
• 22:05
  I Hate Talking: I've heard the colloquial Irish goodbye, which I'm notorious for, and I'll explain why, because I have a legitimate reason in my brain why I do that.
• 22:17
  I Hate Talking: But tell me more about the silent goodbye or why it's called, you say what the French goodbye?
• 22:23
  I Hate Talking: French leave, French leave when I've always heard it be the Irish.
• 22:27
  I Hate Talking: So you want to know the etymology of why it's called that, yeah, and then let's talk about it because you are opposite.
• 22:34
  I Hate Talking: You do not like that I do the quote unquote.
• 22:37
  I Hate Talking: I feel like it's not appropriate to say Irish goodbye, probably.
• 22:41
  I Hate Talking: But that's what we grew up hearing.
• 22:44
  I Hate Talking: So please forgive us, all our Irish friends.
• 22:47
  I Hate Talking: But I have a good reason why I do it, and I know you don't like it.
• 22:52
  I Hate Talking: So let's talk about that.
• 22:54
  I Hate Talking: So, in fact, the etymology is defined by our favorite Oxford language dictionary, and they have a particular quote about this from 1825, it appears.
• 23:05
  I Hate Talking: And the Oxford English Dictionary says, quote, the custom.
• 23:11
  I Hate Talking: Of going away from a reception, etc.
• 23:14
  I Hate Talking: without taking leave of the host or hostess was typically prevalent in the 18th century in France and sometimes imitated in England.
• 23:24
  I Hate Talking: Hence, jocularly, to take French leave is to go away or do anything without permission or notice.
• 23:32
  I Hate Talking: So the French just didn't care, they just left.
• 23:35
  I Hate Talking: I'm not finding where Irish goodbye came from.
• 23:39
  I Hate Talking: So the French leave is essentially saying you're not getting permission, but do we ever get permission to leave something?
• 23:46
  I Hate Talking: Well, there's perhaps certain social pressures that may require you or at least pressure you into staying.
• 23:56
  I Hate Talking: Like if you go to say goodbye and then somebody says, Oh, you can't leave yet, you have to meet so and so, or you have to have a piece of cake, or please don't ever do that to us.
• 24:05
  I Hate Talking: Well, that's why there's French leave.
• 24:06
  I Hate Talking: You just disappear and then you don't have to meet the other person, so and so, or have another piece of cake or whatever the case may be.
• 24:14
  I Hate Talking: You have to do this.
• 24:15
  I Hate Talking: No, I don't have to do anything.
• 24:17
  I Hate Talking: OK, right, because then if you don't succumb to those particular social pressures, then maybe you'll be considered even ruder than if you had left without saying goodbye at all.
• 24:27
  I Hate Talking: Maybe, maybe that's why I'm doing it deeply in my heart.
• 24:30
  I Hate Talking: You, you do French leave is what you're saying.
• 24:34
  I Hate Talking: You just leave and disappear.
• 24:36
  I Hate Talking: OK, -- can we talk about don't -- why do you want to talk about this meeting first?
• 24:40
  I Hate Talking: Well, I think we've covered the meaning, right?
• 24:42
  I Hate Talking: What have we not covered as a meaning?
• 24:43
  I Hate Talking: -- All -- right, now, I think so.
• 24:44
  I Hate Talking: So let's talk about this because we differ so much and I feel like we're kind of ish in the middle after 16+ years of marriage, 17 years+ together.
• 24:56
  I Hate Talking: Because we were super polar before.
• 24:59
  I Hate Talking: But part of me wants to say, it's, it seems rude when we're, say we're in an event, and there's lots of people there, to find the host beforehand, be like, I'm leaving.
• 25:12
  I Hate Talking: I feel like it's rude if we leave too early.
• 25:15
  I Hate Talking: That's gonna hurt their feelings.
• 25:18
  I Hate Talking: And second, it just seems like such a like, everyone stop what you're doing and pay attention to me, cause I'm leaving.
• 25:28
  I Hate Talking: I'd rather just leave.
• 25:30
  I Hate Talking: Without making a big hoopla about myself.
• 25:33
  I Hate Talking: Like everyone stop and say goodbye and hug me.
• 25:37
  I Hate Talking: I'm leaving, I'm so important.
• 25:40
  I Hate Talking: It's why I don't like it.
• 25:42
  I Hate Talking: I would like to just be like, hey, like if there's the person's around me, I'll say bye, thanks, this was great.
• 25:49
  I Hate Talking: But if not, I'm just gonna get my Tupperware or whatever and leave, or if it's a throwaway, I leave it there so people can keep eating it and then they just throw it away.
• 26:01
  I Hate Talking: That's true.
• 26:02
  I Hate Talking: I think it may be coastal differences in our childhood because with my particular upbringing within areas of the United States that had particular Germanic and Dutch roots that this is not a thing you do in German or Dutch is that it's like very much frowned upon to Have French leave.
• 26:29
  I Hate Talking: You go say goodbye to the hosts or the people that you're with, and perhaps that has something to do with their particular farewell words because they don't really have a word for goodbye.
• 26:44
  I Hate Talking: They say of Witerstein, which means until we see each other again.
• 26:48
  I Hate Talking: So it is more of a particular phrase that says you're leaving now, but we will see each other again at a later time, OK.
• 26:58
  I Hate Talking: And I also think that perhaps again, Germanic and Dutch roots are going to be perhaps a little bit more abrupt in their particular social interactions and if someone offers them a piece of cake or to come meet someone that, that really won't be seen as rude if they just say, no, I'm leaving, goodbye.
• 27:21
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think it could be like you said, cultural because I know like say in the Midwest.
• 27:28
  I Hate Talking: It's a whole thing, right?
• 27:30
  I Hate Talking: Like how you say goodbye.
• 27:31
  I Hate Talking: And then y'all walk towards the door and you have another 20 minutes, and then you walk towards the car, you know, like it's a whole process.
• 27:39
  I Hate Talking: I have zero interest in that.
• 27:42
  I Hate Talking: I just wanna take my leftovers and go home.
• 27:45
  I Hate Talking: That's true, and I think even in those particular interactions in my childhood, that there was not social pressure to stay longer because if you did give your farewell, that people left you to leave and did not.
• 28:00
  I Hate Talking: Pressure you in any way to stay longer.
• 28:03
  I Hate Talking: OK, I had a conversation recently and they were like talking about this thing that came up, that's come up multiple times with this child.
• 28:12
  I Hate Talking: Where they'll say something and they're like, I'm done and they just leave and head towards the next activity.
• 28:20
  I Hate Talking: And they're like, so we're working on like the whole process of like peer interaction and all that, right?
• 28:30
  I Hate Talking: And so I laughed and I was like, oh my goodness, I remembered your grandfather, who once again is one of the favorite men in the world.
• 28:39
  I Hate Talking: I really loved this man.
• 28:41
  I Hate Talking: He was a war veteran, great guy.
• 28:44
  I Hate Talking: He would do that, we'd be eating with him and he would finish eating, and he would get up from the table.
• 28:51
  I Hate Talking: And go sit in his car and it's like.
• 28:54
  I Hate Talking: The rest of us still eating.
• 28:56
  I Hate Talking: We haven't paid, but he was done, like it's done.
• 29:00
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye.
• 29:01
  I Hate Talking: He had no sense, like no obligation to like sit around and small talk and wait for all the pleasantries.
• 29:10
  I Hate Talking: And one of our children have that same tendency.
• 29:14
  I Hate Talking: And when I shared that, I remember them being like, oh, that is so fun, like, they thought that was so interesting, that it's like this, I was like, we're, we, it's not taught, it's like inbred in them.
• 29:26
  I Hate Talking: That's true, yeah, I mean, I guess it is the long time debate of nurture versus nature, how much of that particular is Prescribed by the culture versus just hereditary.
• 29:41
  I Hate Talking: Because even with us, right, on a lesser level.
• 29:44
  I Hate Talking: You'll often go sit in the car when you're ready, you've said goodbye, you're done, and I'm stuck in a conversation and I'm trying to get out of it.
• 29:53
  I Hate Talking: And you're like that, you're still in the car, and I'm like, my husband, he's in the car, I gotta go.
• 29:59
  I Hate Talking: So I'm not good at leaving conversations.
• 30:03
  I Hate Talking: Maybe that's why I like the.
• 30:04
  I Hate Talking: What do you call it the French French leave.
• 30:07
  I Hate Talking: Maybe that's why I'm a fan of that.
• 30:09
  I Hate Talking: What's the other term that wouldn't be cultural?
• 30:13
  I Hate Talking: You said Irish goodbye.
• 30:15
  I Hate Talking: No, that I feel like both those are cultural.
• 30:18
  I Hate Talking: What's, uh, you said silent goodbye.
• 30:20
  I Hate Talking: OK, let's say that.
• 30:21
  I Hate Talking: I feel like that's gonna get us in less trouble.
• 30:25
  I Hate Talking: So silent goodbye.
• 30:27
  I Hate Talking: I think that's why I like the silent goodbye, cause I'm not good at stopping conversations.
• 30:33
  I Hate Talking: So then they're gonna be like, oh, did I tell you about blah blah blah, or did I show you, yada yada?
• 30:40
  I Hate Talking: And one, I'm interested, so I wanna hear about it cause I enjoy people.
• 30:44
  I Hate Talking: But then you're in the car with that idling waiting for me and then I feel that pressure of like, gotta go, but you still wanna show me this item, OK.
• 30:56
  I Hate Talking: So silent goodbye avoids all of that.
• 31:01
  I Hate Talking: I guess, but, or you could just be good at ending conversations and just leave.
• 31:05
  I Hate Talking: How do you end a conversation then, other than the rude, I'm done talking.
• 31:09
  I Hate Talking: And we've already said that's not next week.
• 31:12
  I Hate Talking: You could.
• 31:14
  I Hate Talking: Next week when we see you, you can show me that.
• 31:17
  I Hate Talking: Nope, you get to say I have to go.
• 31:19
  I Hate Talking: See you next week.
• 31:20
  I Hate Talking: But when they're like, but I wanted to tell you about like, I don't know, I guess I don't have people that want to tell me things.
• 31:26
  I Hate Talking: OK, well, think about it cause I do.
• 31:31
  I Hate Talking: I love these people.
• 31:34
  I Hate Talking: I also think perhaps maybe it is a gender thing too, because most of my interactions are with men in general during.
• 31:41
  I Hate Talking: Pleasantries and social conversations.
• 31:44
  I Hate Talking: And I think men will typically have a little bit more emphasis on like.
• 31:50
  I Hate Talking: Work that needs to be done or things that you must do or like duty that if there is something that I gotta go take care of that they understand that and don't need to tell me additional things that can wait until next time.
• 32:05
  I Hate Talking: OK, yeah, I'm sure it is partially gendered and cultural because like, oh, I wanna show you my yada yada.
• 32:12
  I Hate Talking: Or men don't necessarily do that unless it's like some power tool or whatever, but like.
• 32:18
  I Hate Talking: You didn't like that.
• 32:20
  I Hate Talking: That was a little misogynistic.
• 32:23
  I Hate Talking: So your friends don't show you their power tools.
• 32:26
  I Hate Talking: I'm sorry.
• 32:28
  I Hate Talking: OK, I, I've seen, I've seen some mowers.
• 32:32
  I Hate Talking: -- I have -- not.
• 32:34
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I've my friends have never shown me a mower before.
• 32:38
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that's like something guys do.
• 32:40
  I Hate Talking: Go, go out to the garage and look at their mower.
• 32:42
  I Hate Talking: I've never, no one's ever shown me except for you when you got our mower.
• 32:47
  I Hate Talking: OK, that was my.
• 32:50
  I Hate Talking: I, I apologize.
• 32:51
  I Hate Talking: I'm getting myself in so much trouble this time.
• 32:53
  I Hate Talking: Goodness, OK, anyways, are are we talking about?
• 32:58
  I Hate Talking: I don't know where you're put my, my mouth like we talked about earlier.
• 33:03
  I Hate Talking: I don't know where you're going.
• 33:05
  I Hate Talking: You're talking about something how the men show each other power tools.
• 33:09
  I Hate Talking: -- Because you're saying -- like people aren't ever trying to keep you back to talk about something.
• 33:15
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, unless it relates to specific things like a health and safety issue or something that needs to be taken care of expeditiously that requires my attention, but If it's more for social things, I don't think I have those experiences very often.
• 33:37
  I Hate Talking: OK, see, I think it's different.
• 33:39
  I Hate Talking: Maybe it's cultural or because you're a guy and I'm a girl.
• 33:43
  I Hate Talking: But we want.
• 33:46
  I Hate Talking: I feel like I completely do.
• 33:47
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so.
• 33:49
  I Hate Talking: Even, OK.
• 33:52
  I Hate Talking: As you're like looking, I, we had a conversation with someone recently about weddings.
• 33:57
  I Hate Talking: Again, our wedding was 17 years ago.
• 34:00
  I Hate Talking: I had shared with them cause they're talking about exits and this like grand exit, and one that wasn't necessarily a thing when we got married, these grand exits.
• 34:09
  I Hate Talking: Also, when we got married, we had a wonderful wedding.
• 34:14
  I Hate Talking: I loved our reception, like all of it.
• 34:16
  I Hate Talking: I truly loved every part of it.
• 34:18
  I Hate Talking: And when it was done, we stayed and cleaned up.
• 34:22
  I Hate Talking: And when I shared that with people, they were shocked.
• 34:26
  I Hate Talking: And then then they also were like, oh, I know you guys, like, obviously you did.
• 34:31
  I Hate Talking: But yeah, we stayed and cleaned up and then we went and got ice cream like.
• 34:39
  I Hate Talking: Which sounds insane, but also that's so us to clean up and then go get ice cream.
• 34:48
  I Hate Talking: Like, I don't know anything that would be more you and I than that.
• 34:53
  I Hate Talking: Do you remember that?
• 34:54
  I Hate Talking: I do remember that.
• 34:55
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps that's our takeaways for this episode is that I need to be more open to conversations and not just reflect and mirror what other people are doing, and likewise, you need to learn how to exit conversations.
• 35:10
  I Hate Talking: But how do you, OK, can we talk about that later?
• 35:13
  I Hate Talking: How do you do that?
• 35:14
  I Hate Talking: Kindly?
• 35:15
  I Hate Talking: Well, I would just say.
• 35:18
  I Hate Talking: Goodbye or As previously stated, God be with you.
• 35:24
  I Hate Talking: And then I would say, from your friends that I hate talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.