Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Kelly Taylor Never Faced a Storyline This Dark. Jennie Garth Revisits One of Her Most Haunting Roles.

Transcript

Killer Thriller: Kelly Taylor Never Faced a Storyline This Dark. Jennie Garth Revisits One of Her Most Haunting Roles. · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Some true crime stories stay with us because of the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: crimes that were committed. Others stay with us because they
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: force us to ask impossible questions about victims, justice, survival,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and the people left behind. Today we're joined by Jenny Garth,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: who brought to life two very different true crime stories
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: nearly three decades apart. In nineteen ninety four, she starred
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: as Lori Kellogg in Lies of the Heart, the controversial
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: case of an abused wife convicted in the murder of
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: her husband. Then in twenty twenty one, she played Michelle Reeves,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the mother of Ashley Reeves, the Illinois teenager who survived
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: after being left for dead in the woods for nearly
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: thirty hours. Jenny, Welcome to Killer Thriller.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: This is exciting. Ope, I don't get killed.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I listen, not on my watch, sister. I hope you
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: know either.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: You got my back. I know that. I love you
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: so much. Thank you for having me.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, thank you for being here. I love you.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we have a reason to come
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: together for this to talk about these We're going to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: talk about two separate movies, and first we're going to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: talk about Lies of the Heart, the Lori Kellogg's story,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: which I have to say, I was so disturbed by
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: this movie and you are so very good in it,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and I kind of can't believe that it was greenlit
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: in the nineties. There were like so many things about
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: it that I think are quite progressive that we'll get into,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: but this is you were twenty years old when you
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: shot this, and it is a case involving domestic abuse
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and murder conspiracy, and you know, and you were so
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: good in it and playing a teenager into the early
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: twenties and like your little voice, You're just it's so
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: upsetting because it really forces the audience to really consider
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: how young this girl was when this happened to her.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So did you, like, how did you handle all of that?
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Did you feel like it was a lot to take
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: on such a dark and complicated role so young?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I was looking, I mean, this is like a
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: dream role. You know, we're always looking for roles that
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: are different than something that we've done before. I love,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you know, the range of drama like I thought, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: and also just very excited to get the opportunity to
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: play a real person instead of just a fictional character.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: And so all of those things lined up. And then
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the content of the film, well, first of all, just
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: being able to tell Lori's story. Yeah, and you know,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: our interpretation of it, and the content was so so
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: heavy and so but so beautiful and then so awful,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: like it had so such a you know, this spectrum
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: of emotions and situations and and all of the things
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that it was a really exciting opportunity for me as
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: such a young actress. I don't think. I think I
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: jumped in. Like most things in my life, I just
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: jump in and I say yes to something when it
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: feels right, and I jump in. I have no idea
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: how I'm going to figure it out or navigate it
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: or play it or anything. I just jump in to
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: an opportunity. And I think that happened with this and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I until I I mean, I just rewatched it last night.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: You did, Yeah, So what did you think in retrost?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have a million questions about it. How
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: do you How did you feel about it now?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Watching it? I was I had the same feelings like
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the little girl voice of the character and knowing that, Yeah,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: my earlier in my life, I had a much softer voice,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: But I don't think I think that was like a
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: choice that I was playing when she was younger. Yeah,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: and just I loved seeing like that age range too,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: and being able to track actually the timeline of the
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: events through, like the way they dressed the character and
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: the hair choices, and you know, just the feelings of
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the scenes. When she was so young. It was so
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: creepy sixteen years old. I mean, obviously she's not coming
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: from the most supportive, attentive family life. You know, her
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: situation as an only child, mom, stepdad who's not a
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: real person, like he's just who sold her.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: For people who don't know apparently sold her for five
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars to this man.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah gotch And I felt like she was just so
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: innocent and so ready for some love her life, and
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: this guy came in and swooped her off her feet,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: and she did not even care that she got sold
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: for five hundred dollars. She was so happy to be there.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of There are so many things
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: that are tragic about it, but that in particular, thinking
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: about that age and not having any kind of real
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: male role models or supportive love in any way, and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: just really desperate for that love and that kind of approval,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: and then thinking traditionally like, oh, if I married someone,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: then I get a family and then I get all
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: these things, and that's just how it works. Like so
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the naivete of that.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and you see that she did kind
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: of level up. She got to be you know, taken
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: care of financially in a much different way. She lived
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: in a big, beautiful home. She had, you know, everything
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: that she needed, the comforts, but she also had to
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: get up and make him breakfast and set out his clothes,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: what else. Just she did everything that a good little
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: wife was supposed to do. He kept calling her what
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: do he call it? My good my little wife or
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: something something really weird, and yeah, what was that? Yeah
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: it was just gross. But I mean for some women,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: that's what they want, you know, they want that domestic
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: you know, typical. I am a great wife and I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: have so much pride in being the best wife possible,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: and that's what I you know, how I'm happiest and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I say congrats, good for you. I love that for
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: you but for me watching it, I think for a
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: lot of women, especially as we've gotten older, like watching
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: that happen to this girl was like, oh my god.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's especially and very specifically because of her
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: age that it's clear her mind is not fully formed.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Her brain quite literally is not fully formed and so
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: not really understanding what she's getting into. And that is
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: it's like the textbook road to abuse by a man.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Like any a healthy man of thirty something is not
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: going to try to, you know, coerce a sixteen year
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: old girl to be his wife.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: He's not a good guy, Like from the get go.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: I was actually shocked knowing Gregory Harrison's career path to
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: that point and being this beloved, like kind of heart
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: draw as trapper John m d Right. I mean, I
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: was actually shocked that this was a choice that he
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: and his team decided would be a good one because
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: there's just nothing redeeming about him. Thinking that too, I guess, yeah,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: let's I want to do something different, and you know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I get that, but I was like, there's just no,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: He's a bad dude.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: There is literally not a thing that is redeeming, but
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: he plays it in such a charming kind of a
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: way that it's pretty brilliant casting in that regard.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: He was so great in the role. You know what
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: was redeeming was his shirtless or you know, his shirtless
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: scenes that was redeeming. I don't remember then being like wow,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: but I must have. I was just so young and inexperienced.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I know you must have felt like very I mean,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: was that awkward because they didn't have intimacy coordinators back
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: in the day. It was like just get in there.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Get I can remember him handling it very gently, like
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: you know, and very cautious and the director was. But
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: watching it back now, those scenes were intense. I started
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: watching it with my two members of my family. Both
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: of them left. They're like, I can't watch this. It's
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: too heavy. I don't like seeing you in that position
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: as a young woman, and you know, it was weird.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And I was like, but guys, it's acting. I'm just acting,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: like real.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: What a great job I did. Nobody, especially like in
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: the courtroom scenes. You know, we all know movies like
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: this that were called movies of the week back then.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: There's kind of a spectrum of them, and this is
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: one of those that is really like you do beautiful
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: work in it. It's very upsetting.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I know, I know, I don't remember much
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: of it. I know I gave it my all, like
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty percent, and I now as a
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: grown woman, can watch it and appreciate the performance of
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: that young actress. Yeah. I thought. I was like, that
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: wasn't bad because I usually don't love watching myself. I know,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: but it's been so long, it's kind of like a
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: different person.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think only like the true narcissists really like
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to watch obsess. I can't. I think like twenty the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: twenty year mark is like the sweet spot for me too.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: To watch something twenty years later I'm like, oh, oh,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: it's not bad.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or just be like look at her go wow, yeah.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Exactly, like wow, I really did it.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Wait?
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Do you want to hear another crazy out of this
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: world story?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Yes? Of course.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know what your next question is going to be,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: but I have to tell you this.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Can't be as good as whatever this answer is going
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: to be.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Okay. Gregory Harrison played the lead in that movie My
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: love Interest. We had all those intimate physical scenes, he
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: beats her, all the things cut to my now ex
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: husband father of my daughters is has a baby in
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend whatever you call her fiance. I'm not sure
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that's Gregory Harrison's daughter. Can you track?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So might just listen to my daughters that this is
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: grandpa Greg.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Now that looks crazy. It is wild.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So every time they look at him they can't.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: They're like, so that's probably an added layer is to die.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Perhaps they didn't want to watch.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sure she was like, killer, this is too weird.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: That's a grandpa Gary, Grandpa Greg.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Also he's like, it's easy on the grandpa. Maybe we
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: just take that out of no.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I think he's okay with it.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Now, that's great. I would be. I'm okay with grandma.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I don't have any grandchildren yet. Scarlet's fourteen, so let's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: talk out. You can go there, but I'd be okay
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: There's something really cool about that weird, full circleish moment
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: of working with someone so young and so many years earlier,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and then working with them again. I mean, not working
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: with them, but like having them into your life, like
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: a small, small way right right?
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: That is wild. I love that. I love that. What
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you was, did you find
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: yourself sympathizing with Laurie, but also struggling with the fact
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: that someone did end up dead like she did kill.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Have this man killed or was participated in a plan?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I mean not, honestly I felt I felt for Laurie.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I was on Laurie's side obviously too, but even as
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: not an act write like, I think that she was captured.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: She was haunted and captured and then enslaved into life
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: that she made the best of and maybe she loved.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: But this man abused her physically, mentally, emotionally. He was
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: a sex offender to the children that she had in
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: her home, that she was babysitting to contribute to the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: household money. I honestly do not have a bad feeling
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: about him dying. That man not being you know, able
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: to do that to other young women. Yep, I mean,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I agree, kind of black and white, but it's the
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: way I feel.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, because I think that we or do you
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: think that now we have a better understanding of kind
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: of abused women, syndrome and all of those kinds of things.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I certainly hope so. But I'm sure there are women
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: out there that if they saw this movie now, they'd
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: be like Oh my gosh, that's happening to me. Maybe
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: they could see that, you know, the dangers in a
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: relationship built the way that one was, And.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I appreciated how they did show as she aged a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: little bit, her realizing I want to educate myself, I
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: want to go back to school, I want to do
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: and then that being such a threat to a man
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: like that, and him just shutting it down, and things
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: kind of getting worse, Like I think those key things
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: are so they are key, They're really important.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, and I still don't know if
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: she orchestrated it right right after watching the movie, after
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: playing the character, I couldn't come to a conclusion with that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I had to believe as the character that she didn't
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: right that the and I can imagine a world where
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: she is miserable. These other kids that are always around her,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: have grown up around her, are have been in awful
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: situations because of him, So they have their own hatred
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: for him, each of them, even you know, oh, out,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I want to say, Alexis, but even Alex Arquette, Yeah.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Oh Alexis Arquet what a great? What a what a great?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, he was great? And I had forgotten that
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I had even worked with him, so watching it, I
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh. Serious. But you know, they
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: these these secondary characters all had their reasons for like,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: let's just get rid of this guy. He's hurting her,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: she's miserable, we love her, they're protective of her.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I can't see she never like contributed to
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the conversations of let's bring a gun, let's kill him.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Every time they talked about that, she was like, I
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: don't want to be a part of that conversation.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe she kind of knew and wasn't like hating the idea, right, But.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's that whole thing about the distance.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: There have been many cases since then, like the Menendez
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: brothers being a big one, but you know, where people
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: of that cycle of abuse, and when it's continuous and continuo,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: you they feel threatened all the time. So kind of
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the moment when you can be free is when they
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: aren't literally in front of you, you know. So it's like,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's such a I mean, I fall very
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: far on the one side of this conversation. I really do,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: because it's so you know, to me, there is no
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: question that kind of abuse is absolutely despicable.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: You would ask like, do you think that kind of
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: abuse is like people are more aware of it now
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: or less easily trapped by that? I want to say,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I hope, so I hope that we as women have
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: learned a lot and that's not happening, but I'm sure
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, And I think that the world, you know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: the jury of this case and society that was, you know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: talking about it when it was happening, they were all
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: like thought she was lying. They all thought that she was,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you know, just wanted to kill this guy, right, right,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And I just I could never believe that in my heart.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And if she did good on her master at the lie, but.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it doesn't even seem feasible because it
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: all they also I also appreciate how they in the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: film they talk about this that Alexis's character, who had
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: been in and out of juvenile hall and jail and things,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that he was himself abused in prison, and so he
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: understood what that felt like and how you kind of
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: can't you don't ever recover from that, especially if you
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: don't have any kind of support of any in any
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you know, any regard. And so it also contributes to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: understanding how he could maybe take the leap to kill
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: this man, because you know, like you, you sort of
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: can psychologically follow those steps in a person who has
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: been abused themselves and is in a damaged situation.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It was a little murky because I couldn't tell if
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: that character was in love with Laurie or just wanted
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: to support her and protect her. I mean, walking into
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: her in the shower is a little a little too supportive,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: but wrong kind of support. Yeah, But I honestly I
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: could feel like his love for her and then him
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: wanting to just get rid of this guy he's a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: bad dude.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the things that I read when I
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: researched it beyond the movie to see what was real
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: perhaps and what was added. And you know, there were
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: conflict not conflicting really, but different stories that he was
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: in love with her, that he also was doing this
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: on behalf of his girlfriend, which they cover in the
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: in the Your film.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Nicole that he was with, the blonde,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and TC warnered it such a great job. I remember
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: loving working with her because she I think she might
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: be like a couple of years older than me, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: we were just like they put her in pigtails and
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: make her look like a little girl. She was older
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: than me, so it was very weird, right, right.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: I really loved working with her.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like the film took a side?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I feel like which film took Glorie's side because
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: she seemed innocent and like a victim. Yeah, And that's
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: how I really had to feel playing her, because that
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: was the story that was being told, That was the
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: story that was written on the paper. If it had
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: been a story of her conniving and you know, really
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: masterminding this murder, I would have obviously played it completely differently.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Right, Did you know anything about it before you signed on?
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: About the actual case?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I had done a lot of research and
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: studying of as much studying of her as I could.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go visit her in jail. I was
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: not allowed to, So yeah, I was just eager, and
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to look more physically like her, and
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I fought for that to you know, give me more,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: you know, change my appearance so that I actually looked
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: like the real character. Those are the true life stories
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: that I love. When you see Patricia Arquette, for example,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: just transforming physically and looking like actually looking like what's
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: her name, the Murdoch, and yes, insane, that's what I
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: wanted to do, and that was another reason I was
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: so excited to do it, and they wouldn't let me
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, of course they were like, no, you're not
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: playing Kelly Taylor, but we needed to look Kelly Taylor to.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Sell this movie. But maybe that would be different now,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: So I could have definitely like stood my ground a
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: little more solidly and pushed back more on that, but
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't go for it.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's understandable then, especially so obviously one
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of the most I don't even know if you could
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: say the most one. Another disturbing thing about this is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: that the actual shooter that we spoke about, his name
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: is Denver McDowell. He was only seventeen years old when
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: he committed this. So what at the time, what did
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you make of the fact that so many young people
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: were involved in such a horrific crime.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Sad, This is really sad. But all of those people
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: had been you know, had had terrible lives as far
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: as like family, they had bad homes, you know, and
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: that they found one another felt nice like they had
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: each other but I mean bad things were still happening
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to them that. I mean, it's a shame that, you know, one, two, three,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: four young people spent years and years in jail. Yeah, yeah,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: because T. C. Warner's character that she didn't shoot the gun,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: you know, lri Kellogg didn't shoot the gun. But they
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: served twenty I mean, I know Laurie served twenty six
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: years in jail.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I believe the other girls she served I
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: want to say, like fifteen or ten to fifteen something
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: quite for just.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Being around the conversation associated with it, you know.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially of the man who is guilty. I understand
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that he paid the price of being murdered, but he
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: was the source of all of this, which is what
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: just really makes me crazy.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: That makes bad you know, It's like, yeah, but do
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: you think that I always wondered this too, especially after
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: watching it last night. Would those two women be able
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: to connect like that in jail? Like would they be
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: able to sit together?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: That was my question. I was wondering that too. That
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: feels like that that can't be real.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it was just like the luck they
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: got both sent to the same institution penitentiary. Was it
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: called jail and the you know, the other girl wasn't
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: didn't seem to be there, or maybe they just couldn't
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: get her on that shooting day. I don't know, right,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: maybe she was unavailable that day.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: But I did wonder about that also, because you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: that is at least some saving grace amidst a horrific situation.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt I felt like warmth in my heart
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: for the fact that they had one another the.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did really appreciate that about the film also,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that which you mentioned, how it seems like they at
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: least had one another amidst very dysfunctional and unhappy situations
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: in life even before prison, Like that little crew of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: people you know, were kind of just they had each
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: other to lean on and kind of doing the best
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: with what they had.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Right, I feel better about it somehow, Yeah, because they
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: had each other.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, did you so this whole the Lori Kellogg case,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it sparked a lot of debate about abuse and accountability
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and justice And were you aware of how passionately people
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: disagreed about her guilt and her punishment.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there were just a lot. There was a lot
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: of conversation about it. When she you know, got convicted,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and that it didn't really go away because every time
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: she would try to get out or plea or whatever,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you know, try to get out of jail early, it
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: would come the conversation would just get more and more heated.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: And it's crazy that people who have nothing to do
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: with it, probably don'y even know her or him or anything,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: are so vehemently like, you know, on his side. They
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: don't know what win happened in that house. And that
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: that brings me to like humanity, like what the fuck?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Like why why do y'all have such polarizing opinions? Right?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: And if you do have them, like, don't mean to
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: like get on your pulpit.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Or physically go to a place with big signs and
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: yelling and screaming about.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It and telling her she's a horror and she's a liar.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I felt so bad for her. So young.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I know, the pictures of her when she gets out
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of jail, she's still so young.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I just looked at some of the pictures of her
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: being walked up the stairs to the courtroom or down
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: the stairs courtroom, and you just think, oh my word,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: this person is so young, so young.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think that I still again, I don't think
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: she had it into her in her to kill someone,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: even if she was being abused. She was, she was
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: a victim in that respect of whether whether she did
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: that to herself kept her in that situation or belief
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: that she I mean, it comes from her raising, being
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: raised and sold and like not loved, like she probably
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't know her worth, doesn't right, she wanted to like
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: she yeah, like you said, she kept dipping her trying
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: to go to school or learn things. And I just
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: don't think that this crime was orchestrated by her.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: If you couldn't meet her and you could ask her
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: one thing or or tell her one thing, like what
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: would you ask or what would you say?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I would ask her, did you do it?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I mean like I'll be that one question, one question
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that's it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Did you do it? Did you do it? I need
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: to know? And what the one thing I would tell her,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: I would say, I hope I played you well, Like
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I hope I did my job well.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Well I think you did.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I think you did that means something.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll leave it there for today, and next time
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Jenny returns to talk about another unforgettable case, we'll discuss
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the shocking attack on seventeen year old Ashley Reeves and
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: her extraordinary survival story at the heart of Left for Dead,