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263: Crisis Management: What Customers Remember Most · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

0:49
Imagine waking up to find your company's name attached to the words,
0:53
explosive diarrhea, in headlines across the country.
0:57
That's the crisis facing Taco Bell after federal health officials linked shredded
1:02
iceberg lettuce served at locations in five states to a parasite outbreak.
1:07
More than 1,600 illnesses and 94 hospitalizations have been reported so far.
1:12
No deaths, thank goodness.
1:14
Taco Bell removed the affected lettuce from its supply chain nationwide.
1:18
The lettuce came from a supplier,
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but customers don't experience your supply chain.
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They experience your brand. They don't distinguish between the grower,
1:27
distributor, franchisee, restaurant,
1:30
or corporate office. They remember where they ate and whose name appeared
1:35
in the headline. That's what makes crisis management so difficult.
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A company may not have created the problem,
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but it still owns the customer experience of the problem.
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And in today's world, organizations don't get to wait until every fact
1:48
is known before responding. Social media moves faster than investigations,
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speculation fills every information gap,
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and silence quickly starts to look like indifference.
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So what should leaders do when the facts are still developing?
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Customers may be at risk and the company's reputation is suddenly on the line.
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Well, today we're discussing how organizations should prepare for,
2:11
communicate during, and recover from a customer experience crisis,
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and why the actions taken in the first few hours can shape how
2:20
the brand is remembered for years.
2:22
All right, that's the topic, John,
2:24
for this week's Customer Service Revolution Podcast.
2:28
But before we get into it,
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I wanna hear about the wedding in Sweden because the pictures I saw,
2:35
it was such an elegant over the top affair.
2:38
Yeah, yeah. It it was ~ it was and I don't think I I I I've said this too often,
2:44
if ever. It was the the best two days of my life.
2:47
Well, I mean, I was there for a week,
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but just the the yeah, easily,
2:51
hands down. It was incredible.
2:53
And I maybe it's the first child I've had get married,
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so maybe every parent feels that way at at at their you know.
3:00
wedding of of their kids. But yeah,
3:02
it was surreal. It was over the top.
3:04
Yeah, i and and and so i ~ I don't know what's wrong with me.
3:07
I don't love weddings attending them.
3:09
I try to get out of if I can. and and when I go,
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I I weddings and funerals, this'll just tell you a lot about me.
3:16
I go early, so you see me. I want credit.
3:19
Not funerals, wakes, wakes.
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Like my my thing for wakes are if if you're viewing is four to seven,
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I will be there three forty five on the dot.
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So there's no line. I get to spend a little bit more time you see me.
3:34
and then I could boogie out of there.
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~ I don't I don't go to funerals or masses because you're not gonna see me.
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I'm not gonna get credit for it.
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I know.
3:43
God, that's why
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you told
3:45
Right, right,
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right. So I it and same thing with weddings.
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I'm I'm bad, like I'm like, I don't wanna go to this wedding.
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I'm just I'm kinda not a social person.
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So I'll go, I'll see ya, I'll make sure you know I'm there and then I'll Irish
3:59
goodbye. you know, I'll just disappear and hopefully the people don't know that,
4:04
you know, I wasn't there all night.
4:05
you know, I'm I'm I'm sure I'm not the thing.
4:07
But this was this was ~ have you go been to a lot of destination weddings?
4:11
But I have one in August. Well actually I was just at one in in the country,
4:16
but in a different state.
4:17
We have one in August that's in the Czech Republic in Prague.
4:20
Yeah,
4:20
so so I never really I I've been to but yeah,
4:23
one I can think of. And I don't know,
4:26
maybe it's because I was, you know,
4:27
on the side of the host of the wedding.
4:30
But it was so great because we had two hundred people,
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which I didn't expect to get sixty-five,
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you know, two hundred people that flew to Sweden.
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says a lot about my son Cal. But
4:40
You know, sometimes if you go to a wedding that's local and it's,
4:43
you know, you're there from six to eleven or whatever that you know that is,
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you know, you could be like, ~ I saw Denise and Ken there,
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but I didn't get a chance to talk to them,
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right? Like, you know, and so having a a w a a destination wedding,
4:57
at least, you know, from my real first experience,
5:00
you know, there was forty eight hours to seventy two hours that everyone was there.
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And so you just got to spend time with them in the lobby or by the pool
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or at the welcome reception and just it was just so cool.
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And it was, I don't know, I guess for me surprisingly emotional.
5:17
~ the whole weekend of the, you know,
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first just seeing what people did to get there.
5:23
~ there was, you know, there was people that can easily afford a trip across
5:28
the ocean. And then there was people that have never gotten a
5:31
Never been out of the country,
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had to get a passport for this and really,
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you know, really ~ was a big, big sacrifice.
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But just all the things said and the speeches said and yeah,
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it was it was ~ it was great. It was emotionally exhausting,
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proud. I couldn't have been prouder of of of Cal,
5:48
my son in law, and these speeches that my
5:52
my boys and everyone gave on on the impact that he's had.
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It was really cool.
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That's beautiful.
5:57
Yeah, yeah.
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You know, if you don't if you don't do an Irish goodbye at the wake
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and the weddings that you go to,
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you get those moments.
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What moments?
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The moments you said that you enjoyed so much,
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you know, running into people and talking to
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Yeah, you're probably right.
6:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:13
Yeah, I always I this
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is gonna sound weird, but I've always enjoyed the part at awake when
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you can reminisce about the person and tell stories and,
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you know, talk to other people there,
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~ remember when we did this, remember,
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you know
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Yeah, and and and that's different.
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I I'm probably not talking about someone I know really well.
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I'm talking about like, you know,
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paying respect to like if it's a friend's parent,
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right? Not a close friend, that's com or a family member,
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that's completely different. But someone that,
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you know, you you need to show your face,
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but it's not gonna be you know,
6:45
like what you're talking about.
6:47
That's different.
6:47
So ~
6:48
I
6:48
you know I just heard though, someone just went to a a a a wake
6:52
in Michigan this week. And I don't know if this is a normal thing,
6:56
but they told me that they had a
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tailgate.
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At awake.
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I was dying.
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A tailgate, you mean like outside of the
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Yeah,
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they were all outside in their,
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you know, cars tailgating.
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I have never seen experience.
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Neither have
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I. I was like, no way. ~ that was funny.
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That well, all right. That's interesting.
7:15
Huh. Do you have wishes for yours?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Would you want a tailgate for yours?
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Do I have what? I'm not a
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Would you want a tailgate?
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partier. I I could see where it could be so much fun if you were you know,
7:26
drinkers or football fans, or I could see that being a blast and a a
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way to honor it. I want to roast.
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I don't want the traditional the traditional funeral services because like,
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Mm.
7:37
you know, the awkwardness, people feel bad,
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they don't know what to say to the
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family, the family feels you know,
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it's just tell funny stories.
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Yeah, stories, that's the good part.
7:48
So I when I went well how was your fourth of July and holidays?
7:52
I know you were travelling.
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Yeah, so we we had a wedding July third,
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July fourth we were in Hilton Head with a large family group.
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So ~ we saw fireworks on the beach.
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yeah, it was just it was a lot of family time.
8:06
It was good.
8:06
Yeah, that's the only thing that we didn't get because we were in Sweden,
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no fireworks, and ~ fireworks is one of my most favorite things in the world.
8:13
Really? Really?
8:13
my god, I love fireworks!
8:15
I didn't know that.
8:16
Why do you not love fireworks?
8:17
I don't know. I guess for me it's you've you know,
8:21
you've seen one, you've seen ~ all.
8:23
It's not that
8:24
think so. Like if you really get into it and just stare at it,
8:26
it's I think it's like, I don't know,
8:28
mesmerizing. It's like washing watching the ocean or watching a fire.
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Those two things are really tranquil.
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the other thing is I wanna know,
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~ Denise is if you ~ if you've gotten explosive diarrhea.
8:40
No, and you know, with the amount of vegetables that I eat,
8:44
I consider myself very fortunate that I have not.
8:47
Yeah, I'm like I'm I like I went out to dinner last night and I wanted to
8:52
~ get a salad and I decided against it.
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and I'm afraid to buy produce right now.
8:57
But do you see ~ that Taco Bell?
9:00
Like ~ the FDA came out and said ~ you know,
9:03
to avoid Taco Bell, which I mean it's just so bad.
9:07
~
9:07
Yeah, they
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listed a brand name for the bagged salads,
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which I actually happened to eat two of while I was in Hilton Head and
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I had no issues, thank goodness.
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but I also read that there are it whether it's hydroponics or greenhouse grown,
9:25
that those are safe. It's the ones that are grown in fields right now
9:28
to be leery of. But yeah I don't know.
9:30
Yeah. Well, but it you know
9:32
Ooh, that's
9:33
The FDA and CDC have identified shredded iceberg lettuce served
9:37
at Taco Bell restaurants in five states:
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Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky,
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and West Virginia is the source of a multi-state outbreak of cyclospora?
9:47
A parasite that causes intestinal illness.
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But you know, it's gotta suck for the brand.
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in some states.
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Taco Bell has foot traffic has dropped eleven percent.
10:00
So, you know, it brings us to a a another point
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Wow.
10:05
of ~ crisis management, you know,
10:08
that we teach in zero risk and and crisis management when when it's your fault shit
10:13
hits a fan. Now you can get into a pissing match if your taco yeah.
10:15
No pun intended.
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that, you know, it's not Taco Bell's fault.
10:19
But it is their problem, right?
10:21
so four things that that great companies that do well is address immediately,
10:27
have the highest ranking person,
10:28
CEO, be the face, take a hundred percent responsibility and overcorrect.
10:34
So I don't know what that looks like.
10:36
I I haven't seen anything other than you know,
10:39
they come out with
10:40
what they're doing to prevent it from happening anymore.
10:43
But, you know, I don't know if that means they should be offering
10:47
to pay people's medical 'cause there's been ninety four re reports and
10:51
I'm not sure this is all from Taco Bell of hospitalizations,
10:54
no deaths. But, you know, I I I don't know what,
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you know, they need to do to restore the confidence in consumers,
11:01
other than wait it out. But it's it's
11:04
Have they have
11:05
they posted anything like we stopped using lettuce on our
11:09
Yeah,
11:09
yeah, I was reading that some quotes.
11:12
yeah, so they've identified what they're doing,
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but they still ~ you know, it it would be nice to hear that they took care
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of of reports of ~ people who ended up
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What would you recommend?
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What would you tell them to do?
11:24
Yeah, it would it would be, you know,
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overcorrect. Overcorrect. don't do pay for hospitalization.
11:28
In what way? Give me an example.
11:29
What does it look like?
11:32
maybe offer those people free Taco Bell for a year.
11:35
yeah, you know, but and and you know,
11:38
that just i it's an opportunity to demonstrate that you know you care
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and you're not hiding. I I think in in every case,
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any crisis
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Whether it's an individual, a celebrity,
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you know, you can think of one like when United dragged the doctor off the airplane.
11:54
The first thing it's it's never the what happens that is the worst thing,
12:00
it's the cover up. Right? And,
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you know, celebrities getting busted for taking athletes taking steroids or,
12:07
you know, cheating scandals or
12:09
You know, all that. It's it's usually the cover up that gets you
12:12
in more trouble than just saying,
12:15
Hey, we we screwed up here. And like,
12:17
you know, you go back to however many years ago,
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eight, ten years ago when when the ~ doctor got pulled off the United flight,
12:24
the first thing the CEO did was say,
12:27
you know, he had to be, he was unruly,
12:31
you know, passenger, yada da-da-da.
12:33
Forgetting that everyone had iPhones.
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Or, you know, cameras on their phones.
12:38
And then that immediately came out and showed that,
12:41
you know, it wasn't a he said,
12:42
she said, right? And and you know,
12:44
it just made United look so bad versus saying,
12:47
We handled it totally wrong, it was unacceptable,
12:51
and handle it like that. So yeah,
12:53
I think you can, you know, could turn it into a positive,
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in a way.
12:57
with, you know, showing how you took care of the people that were impacted
13:02
by it and, you know, restoring consumer confidence.
13:05
Okay. So do you have an example,
13:07
John, of companies who have had these type of crises and overcame it
13:13
in a really positive way, saved their brand?
13:16
The best one I can think of is you know,
13:19
the ~ how Johnson and Johnson handled the Tylenol poisoning,
13:23
and this was back in the eighties,
13:25
where seven people in the Chicago area died after someone tampered with Tylenol
13:31
capsules by adding cyanide. and so
13:33
you know, Johnson Johnson immediately warned consumers nationwide not
13:37
to use any Tylenol capsule, even before the full scape was ~ a tampering
13:41
was n known.
13:42
I don't know if was the ~ FDA or or or the government or or FBI,
13:48
but they recommended it Johnson and Johnson not to pull the product
13:53
~ just because they thought it was gonna cause cause mass hysteria.
13:57
And Tylenol ignored them. And they pulled thirty-one million bottles.
14:01
and they, you know, just they
14:04
They weren't gonna let another be one of their core values,
14:07
y you know, w we talked about it and and I wrote about in one of
14:10
my books and articles, but memory serves.
14:13
And then that's when they came with the sh they enacted the triple what
14:18
I think you called it something,
14:19
where triple security. So th there was they you didn't have yeah,
14:23
Tamper evident packaging. Tamper evidence packaging.
14:24
what was it called? Tamper proof?
14:26
Yeah.
14:26
Yeah.
14:27
So before this, and people will be surprised,
14:30
you didn't have you had the seal over the bottle after you opened the the the ~ top.
14:36
Then the top has a seal on it,
14:38
and then the box that the the ~ bottle goes into had so you had triple thing,
14:44
and that was not the case. I don't know what was the case back then,
14:47
maybe just the box. I don't know.
14:49
But
14:49
Was it even
14:49
in a box? I think you could just get the bottle even.
14:51
Yeah, right. Right.
14:53
Yeah.
14:54
And and you might have just been able to open the bo th there might have been
14:57
no none of the three that you have today.
15:01
But you know, ~ rather than debating the legal responsibility
15:05
of companies focused on protecting the s consumers,
15:08
it a offered free replacement and absorbed the enormous cost.
15:12
It cost ~ just pulling the thirty one million bottles of Tylenol capsules was
15:17
more than a hundred million dollars at the time.
15:20
The recall was voluntary and unprecedented for consumer products.
15:25
you know the the executives gave frequent press briefings they worked closely with
15:30
the FDA law enforcement retailers physicians and the media a toll-free hotline
15:35
was created yeah so yeah the sealed boxes foil seals over bottle openings plastic
15:42
neck
15:42
bans, all those things. And Tylenol's market share collapsed from about
15:48
thirty-five percent to less than eight percent.
15:52
However, because the company responded quickly,
15:54
transparently and decisively, it regained consumer trust and recovered much
16:00
of its market position within a year.
16:03
so it it's used as a case example.
16:05
putting people before profits
16:08
Act quickly even without all the answers,
16:10
communicate transparency and frequency,
16:12
take decisive action that builds trust,
16:15
and use the crisis to create lasting improvement.
16:18
Yeah, that's the one that I really,
16:20
really ~ you know, think of and and you know,
16:23
l like I said, usually people,
16:25
companies try to reduce the cost impact,
16:29
and time could have very easily because it was
16:31
it was recommended not to pull the product because they thought the F
16:35
FBI and all that thought it would cause mass hysteria and Tylenol ignored their
16:40
their ~ recommendations.
16:42
Dominoes in the mid-2000s had an issue with quality and customer service.
16:48
And they're another one who are often cited for having struggled with
16:54
a tarnished reputation, primarily due to poor product quality and customer service,
16:59
and then compounded by a damaging viral scandal in 2009.
17:04
Do you remember that?
17:05
No, what was what happened?
17:06
Domino's had become the world leader in pizza delivery.
17:09
In 2009, Domino's was tested during a slow Easter Sunday.
17:14
Two employees posted a video of them doing unsanitary doing unsanitary things while
17:21
preparing customers' food. Domino's was thrust into the spotlight forced
17:25
to make some major changes to their franchise.
17:27
So again, to no fault of their own,
17:29
but they had two employees who were.
17:31
doing something outside of their regulations
17:34
That tarnished their reputation.
17:36
So the video was brought to executives' attention on Monday,
17:38
and they immediately began taking action,
17:40
firing the two employees the following day.
17:42
Took them 48 hours to respond to the video,
17:45
which caused public criticism on social media.
17:48
Following the scandal, Domino's CEO at the time,
17:51
Patrick Doyle, released his own YouTube video condemning
17:55
the former employees' actions and announcing warrants had been issued
17:58
for their arrest. The rate the video was being used caught the company off guard.
18:02
Step was for Domino's to create an avenue in which they could communicate with
18:06
the public and respond to questions.
18:07
They dedicated themselves to changing their reputation through
18:11
the pizza turnaround campaign.
18:14
Proved successful. Sales increased by 14% in the first quarter and profits doubled.
18:20
Wow, that's great. That's great.
18:22
Yeah. So and as we
18:22
there's one
18:24
know, they've continued to work on their customer experience ~ and their product.
18:30
Yeah. There's one you know, Chipotle between two thousand fifteen
18:33
and two thousand eighteen, the E.
18:35
coli bro break outbreaks, Nora vir Nora Nora virus outbreaks
18:41
and salmonella incidents, sales plummeted,
18:44
stock dropped dramatically, consumer trust evaporated.
18:47
they said eventually, Chipotle responded by closing every restaurant nationwide
18:52
for food safety trading.
18:53
hiring food experts, centralizing food preparation,
18:56
a bunch of stuff, but they they they were slow to respond.
19:00
And that's why they lost you know you know consumer confidence and so like
19:05
I said you know we teach crisis management when it's a crisis address immediately
19:12
highest ranking person which should be the CEO president
19:16
Take full responsibility and overcorrect.
19:18
I think that's important.
19:21
absolutely. How about jet blue?
19:23
Do you remember a time when jet blue
19:25
The nine
19:25
~ was it the was that the nine hour ~ where people sat on the plane for nine hours?
19:31
Yeah, so during an ice storm, stranded passengers for an o for hours
19:32
And I believe, correct me.
19:36
was the defining moment for the airline.
19:39
thought they were had a great reputation.
19:40
They do now, but I don't know,
19:43
did they always have a great reputation?
19:45
I thought they did. That's why I was so surprised by it.
19:47
and someone this just happened recently on other airlines where someone
19:51
was on four or five hours. Same thing.
19:54
And I I this might be one of the reasons,
19:56
but ~ y they'll always pull away from the pull away from the gate.
20:01
'Cause if you pull away from the gate,
20:03
you don't get dinged for on time departure.
20:06
Correct.
20:06
And that's
20:07
why they pull away from the gate,
20:09
but then you sit in the tarmac or the runway or whatever for yeah.
20:13
This just happened to me last week.
20:15
~ we're w I was I was going to Calgary and and and I had a flight from Cleveland
20:20
to Detroit and they pulled away from the gate and then we sat on the
20:23
the the runway tarmac for ninety minutes and we didn't know if we were,
20:28
you know.
20:28
There was maintenance issues and they they just wouldn't let us off the plane.
20:31
Ninety minutes isn't but I missed my connection in Detroit and then,
20:35
you know, whatever. But you know,
20:37
I think that's the problem. There's always unintended consequences when you,
20:41
you know, wanna hold people accountable by on time departures and arrivals.
20:47
And that's the unintended consequence is that they're gonna get you away from
20:50
the gate.
20:51
whether it's not in the best interest of the the passengers and then you sit.
20:56
And that just doesn't make a sense.
20:58
And I think, you know, there that you couldn't use the bathrooms anymore
21:01
on the the I believe the jet blue flight and the one,
21:05
you know, and there's so many things.
21:07
People can't get up and it's just it just to make passengers sit for more than two,
21:13
three hours is just horrible.
21:14
It is horrible. But ~ and are you familiar with what Jet Blue did as
21:19
a result of that?
21:20
No, I don't remember. I did back then,
21:22
I probably wrote about it.
21:23
They well, they actually started a customer bill of rights,
21:26
which is what you've been known for,
21:29
~ when you're creating a customer experience action statement and
21:33
the never always statements.
21:35
Right.
21:35
Do they say what they did specific?
21:37
~
21:38
so the customer let's see.
21:40
The customer bill of rights, best fare guarantee,
21:43
a checked baggage commitment, delivery reimbursement,
21:48
fee refund, customer accessibility.
21:51
They signed on to the Airlines for America Passenger Accessibility Commitment,
21:55
ensuring every customer feels welcome,
21:57
comfortable, and valued.
21:59
~ family seating committed to ensuring the comfort and safety of all customers,
22:02
including families traveling with young children.
22:05
a
22:05
a a limit to how long they're gonna let you sit on a pl a plane that's not
22:09
~ there's still more. Let's see.
22:12
~ customer bill of rights, how we keep you informed if your flight's delayed,
22:15
canceled, or diverted. They'll notify you within thirty minutes of becoming aware
22:19
of the disruption.
22:20
Notify you quickly, automatically rebook you,
22:23
provide options, offer additional support.
22:26
compensation when disruption is within jet blue's control,
22:30
eligible customers receive compensation in the form of jet blue true blue points.
22:36
I just wanna know that I th my biggest thing
22:39
is that how do I know I'm not gonna be stuck on a flight for or or a a
22:44
non moving f ~ plane for hours?
22:46
Yeah.
22:46
They offer hotel accommodations,
22:48
meals if it's canceled or disrupted due to controllable irregularity,
22:53
I don't see specific to not leaving you on the tarmac for nine hours.
22:58
~
22:58
Yeah, I know that was that that that that really hurt JetBlue.
23:02
But you know, customers rarely judge a a brand by whether something went wrong.
23:08
They judge but how what they did next.
23:11
And so, you know, Tylenol wasn't remembered because of the poison capsule.
23:16
I you know like I have to, you know,
23:17
I don't pick up Tylenol that.
23:19
at all unless this case study is brought up.
23:21
It's remembered because of how Johnson and Johnson responded.
23:24
Chipotle isn't remembered by the E.
23:26
coli. It's remembered by transforming its food safety culture.
23:29
Jackson Jack in the Box became a model for food safety because
23:33
it reinvented its operation after the tragedy.
23:36
So now Taco Bell now has the same opportunity.
23:39
it needs to be transparent, decisive,
23:41
and visibly committed to protecting the customer.
23:44
you know, it could this incident can ultimately ~ you know strengthen
23:48
~ not weaken the trust in the brand long term.
23:51
I asked Chat GPT if there's a a law about sitting on the plane and there's
23:57
a federal rule commonly called DOT tarmac delay rule that
24:02
limits how long an airline can keep passengers on a plane on
24:06
the ground without giving them the opportunity to get off.
24:08
pa domestic must be given the opportunity to plane before three hours on a tarmac.
24:13
International four hours. I still think that's crazy.
24:15
That's still
24:16
so long.
24:17
God. Yeah.
24:18
is the rule enforced? American Airlines received a $4.1 million fine in 2023,
24:25
the largest ever for dozens of violations of that law.
24:29
Yeah. The rule applies to being on the aircraft on the ground.
24:34
It may not limit how long your flight itself can be delayed before boarding.
24:38
I'm fine with.
24:40
not you know, I just don't want to be stuck on a a a little capsule.
24:43
So many things, yeah. Yeah. So yeah,
24:46
which takes us to things, you know,
24:48
so that that's crisis management,
24:50
but just service recovery i i in general.
24:52
there's a service recovery paradox that ~ a study shows that
24:57
It you know, just when something goes wrong and brands make it right,
25:00
customers can be more loyal as a result than if any nothing went wrong.
25:04
And and this is really where you can have employee roulette happen with like
25:09
if it you know, think about this.
25:10
has a problem, do you trust anyone making it right?
25:14
The most, you know, senior employee or the the newest employee you hired?
25:19
And that's, you know, where their service recovery comes in.
25:22
So a lot of great companies have service recovery resolution.
25:26
ours is least, listen, empathize,
25:29
apologize, solve and and thank.
25:31
You know, the many companies ha have things like that.
25:34
So so each you know, listen has its own context to it.
25:38
You know, what is you have to explain ~ you know,
25:41
what listen looks like. You know,
25:42
let them get it off their chest,
25:44
don't interrupt, listen like you're wrong,
25:46
don't defend your you know, explore you know,
25:50
all those things. ~ some people are very weary of apologizing because
25:54
it they feel like it puts them in,
25:56
you know.
25:56
a legal setting. There can be a no fault apology.
26:00
I don't really think we need to get caught up in that too often.
26:03
I think, you know, it it's depending on,
26:05
you know, take responsibility,
26:06
apologize for the inconvenience,
26:08
empathize with the situation they're in.
26:10
The biggest one, they're all important,
26:12
but the biggest one is solve and or you know,
26:15
some people call it resolve. There's another one,
26:17
learn. Sandals use learn.
26:19
listen, empathize, apologize, resolve and next steps.
26:24
Resolve, solve, whatever it is.
26:25
That's that's the most difficult one because depending on who you're dealing with,
26:31
a receptionist, a a customer service rep,
26:34
you know, whoever, you know, the the the you know where is their autonomy to solve.
26:40
You know, if it's a five minute wait,
26:41
you know, minor inconvenience,
26:43
I think that solve or resolve is thank you for your patience.
26:47
But as it gets bigger, how do they do it and and and and do you trust that
26:51
the employee so, you know, what we teach is that you don't have to solve
26:56
in the moment, if you're not a leader and you don't know what you're allowed to do.
27:01
you could say, you know, I apologize,
27:04
customer, guest, patient, Thompson.
27:07
let me get back to you within an hour,
27:10
a half hour, whatever, and then go get help.
27:13
There, you know, what you want to try to avoid is transferring,
27:16
you know, and saying something like,
27:18
well, that's out of my, what do people say?
27:20
Pay get grade.
27:22
~ you're gonna have to call corporate,
27:24
you're gonna have to talk to my GM.
27:26
You wanna try to avoid that just because every time you transfer and
27:30
you a a customer has to retell their story that it get angrier and angrier
27:35
and they could embellish it. something I just heard.
27:38
So so you want you wanna handle it and but but maybe you can't handle
27:42
it in the moment. You wanna go ask and get,
27:44
you know, approval.
27:45
And and and there's a company that has the ask once promise.
27:49
they came out with the ask once promise because there was a study done
27:54
in that company, and I think it's pretty common across the board that
27:58
you know 59% of customers had to,
28:01
you know, re-explain their situation,
28:03
65% had to be transferred, you know,
28:06
and all this thing. And you just want to avoid all that.
28:08
So this this company, I think it's a financial institution.
28:11
said there's an ask once promise that whoever gets the initial complaint owns it.
28:17
Doesn't mean they can own it right there in that moment.
28:19
They'll do the work instead of transferring you to six different people
28:23
and you re explaining it.
28:24
I I forget where I was gonna go with the s the the second.
28:26
I
28:27
no, I like that though. I think the owning it is is important and if
28:30
you let someone if you let the client,
28:33
patient, customer know, I'm going to take care I'm going to make sure you're taken
28:37
care of. You know, giving them that confidence is important.
28:41
I also think one thing that leaders should pay attention to is that
28:46
the different examples you gave,
28:48
the learn, lead, least, none of them contain anything that says
28:53
defend. We're not defending the company.
28:57
We're not saying the company's policy or,
29:00
you know, being protective of the company in those situations.
29:04
How important is that?
29:05
I mean, it's so important. We so we just had our our summer quarter customer
29:10
experience executive academy, and the topics this quarter was zero risk
29:15
and above and beyond. And two attendees in there talked about their past.
29:21
companies they worked for. So we always say service aptitude starts at the top,
29:25
and you can tell why a company is great,
29:27
because you know, Walt Disney,
29:29
Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Howard Schultz,
29:32
Richard Branson, you know, the list goes on and on.
29:36
It's not that long of a list, but the great companies you could tell why.
29:39
But then you can also tell why companies are horrible at customer experience.
29:43
Ben Bald
29:44
I forget how how to even say his name.
29:46
the former Spirit Airlines, you know,
29:49
when when a ~ a veteran of the military booked a flight to go see his daughter,
29:55
but then literally a couple of days later got diagnosed with esophagus cancer
30:00
and was recommended that you can't fly and and maybe I believe.
30:04
It was terminal, tried to get his refund from Spirit Airlines.
30:07
they wouldn't refund him because he didn't buy the fifteen dollar fully respon
30:11
fundable ~ airlines. And then the you know,
30:14
it just blew up on social media and this is ten,
30:17
twelve years ago at least. So the CEO Ben,
30:21
what's his name? Former CEO.
30:23
Of Yeah Airlines named Ben.
30:23
Bengali or something. What was it then?
30:29
Bald ~ Baldonza, yeah.
30:30
Beldanza
30:32
So he came out and said he should have bought insurance.
30:35
And you know, and what would that do to all the people that didn't buy insurance?
30:39
you know, and you so you could tell why Spirit Airlines on your birthday,
30:42
May second, twenty twenty six,
30:45
went bankrupt or closed permanently.
30:47
Because yeah, all their people follow the the take.
30:50
So so back to this, we were talking about service recovery
30:54
in the Customer Experience Executive Academy this this ~ past week,
30:58
and two of ~ the attendees said their one said their former boss,
31:04
their
31:04
would constly say buyers are liars.
31:07
Buyers are liars. Don't trust a thing they say.
31:10
Don't, don't, you know, fight tooth and nail.
31:13
And that just blew my mind. This was a COO.
31:16
And like I I just couldn't believe,
31:18
you know, and so that's why the company treats everyone like that.
31:21
And then another person said, their former boss,
31:24
their slogan, and they at say this.
31:27
Their former slogan internally was,
31:30
buy it or don't.
31:30
'Cause they were so busy at the time as a result of the pandemic.
31:35
They were one of those businesses that just blew up.
31:38
And so when you called and haggled or don't buy it or don't.
31:41
Like I we got a waiting list, we got,
31:44
you know, 17 emails, people on hold.
31:46
Buy it or don't. Yeah.
31:48
Where are they now? I'd love to know.
31:50
Yeah.
31:50
Yeah, it's crazy the mentality that,
31:53
you know, and and so y you know,
31:55
usually it's not the frontline employee barista,
31:59
customer service rep, cashier,
32:02
bank tellers fault that they are forced to hide behind policy.
32:06
But you think about this, you know,
32:08
that's those companies ~ you know,
32:10
irrefutable evidence, have higher turnover.
32:13
Employees besides customer attention.
32:15
Because, you know, if you're getting your ass kicked 12 times a day
32:19
by customers who are screaming at you and you don't have any autonomy
32:24
to make it right, and you can't be creative,
32:26
you know, you can't be innovative,
32:28
you can't come to the rescue, your job sucks.
32:31
aka Spirit Airlines that they had to enforce the $15.
32:32
Yeah.
32:35
And then you think about, you know,
32:37
that one example with this, you know,
32:39
the Spirit Airlines veteran, what percentage of the population did they offend
32:44
by that going viral? Anyone that,
32:46
you know, deal senior citizens,
32:48
Vietnam veterans, or veterans,
32:50
military veterans, and cancer.
32:52
100% of the population is related to you know one if not all of those things.
32:57
And then, you know, back then when that came out,
33:00
there was a already before this,
33:02
there was already a Facebook page that was called Boycott Spirit Airlines
33:07
and had 50,000 likes and followers for fifteen dollars.
33:12
That's the silly part for you know for what it what it would cost them
33:12
Yeah.
33:16
to and especially it was soon enough I mean he had just booked the ticket.
33:20
No, they could have turned it into a a a a me besides it was the right thing to do,
33:21
Could refill his seat.
33:24
they could have turned it into a a media,
33:26
a positive media story. That maybe they would have flown,
33:30
you know, given him his money back,
33:32
blah, blah, blah. But maybe they would have ~ flown his daughter to see him.
33:34
known his daughter to see him.
33:35
Yeah.
33:36
Yeah, for free. Like what a great positive story instead of drawing a line
33:40
in the sand and getting to a pissing match.
33:42
So we always talk about remove the word policy.
33:45
From your company's vocabulary,
33:47
because as a customer, when I've had policy thrown at me,
33:51
you know, obviously that's you know,
33:53
I feel like I'm a VIP. I spend a lot of money with you.
33:56
I've been here, you know, and I might know the owner,
33:59
CEO, whatever, you know, personally,
34:01
right? And so, you know, I don't feel like that that's good.
34:04
But worse is what policy does to employees.
34:08
employees
34:09
typically will not go against policy.
34:10
It's black and white. people have gotten fired,
34:13
tired and feathered. and then,
34:14
you know, now they have to be the the messenger and it sucks.
34:19
And we've had it where people have done silly things,
34:22
stupid things. and it's not the employees' fault.
34:24
It's because we had policy. So the example,
34:27
you know, I always give is, you know,
34:29
In the salons, we have a policy or had a policy where if you no call,
34:35
if you don't show up for your appointment,
34:37
we're gonna charge your credit card.
34:38
Just call and cancel. I think it's within twenty-four hours.
34:42
and a client did this. This is you know back in the early two thousands.
34:46
A client called me and said, ~
34:48
I got charged on my American Express last month for an appointment I didn't show
34:52
up to. And she said to me the reason why I didn't show up was because
34:55
my husband dropped dead that morning.
34:56
And I'm yeah, I'm like, my God,
34:57
my god.
34:59
I'm so sorry. You know, we will fully refund you.
35:03
And I'm also thinking about you,
35:05
I'm gonna send her a day of pampering,
35:07
all this stuff. And she said, I figured you would do that.
35:10
That's not why I'm calling. I'm like,
35:12
Why are you calling? She goes 'cause I called
35:13
that location and got your salon manager and the response was sorry that's
35:19
our policy and I was humiliated.
35:21
And this employee is still with us today and is a rock star.
35:25
But that was it wasn't her fault.
35:27
It was, you know, maybe what she was brainwashed at her last company of like
35:32
you do not go against policy. But it was also our fault.
35:35
Because we trained her on that's our policy.
35:37
And she didn't know that she could,
35:40
you know, use her own judgment,
35:42
her best judgment. So, ~
35:43
Yeah,
35:44
some that is what you spend time on during their onboarding.
35:47
Are you spending a lot of time on the policies and procedures
35:51
and everything that's in that thick manual that,
35:55
you know, you want them to know what they can and cannot do as an employee
35:58
and what their benefits are? Or are you spending time on how do we how
36:03
do we serve the customer and each other?
36:04
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
36:06
Well, John, this has been enlightening and I hope that well we'll I guess we'll wait
36:10
and see what Taco Bell does. That'll be we'll find out how they handle this crisis.
36:13
Yeah.
36:17
Taco Bell and the lettuce and
36:19
Have you ~ read the
36:20
people are describing as explosive diarrhea.
36:23
Not in detail thanks.
36:25
I have. I mean it's it's not your run of the mill diarrhea.
36:29
It sounds horrible.
36:30
Well, I hope that you continue to avoid it.
36:32
~ and I hope that our listeners do as well,
36:33
Yeah, you too.
36:36
and that this clears up for everyone.
36:37
Thank you, John, for another another enlightening episode
36:40
Thank you, Denise.
36:43
of the Customer Service Revolution podcast.
36:44
Yeah.
36:46
We'll see you next week.