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Jonathan Brentner: God’s Sovereignty & 5 Troubling Trends In The Church · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hello, family, friends in Christ, brothers and sisters, we appreciate you guys so very
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  much. Got to get into our friend, Jonathan Brentner, who's back with us, dear friend from Illinois.
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  And I'll give you his website in a minute. We'll mention his books and he's working on
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  a new one.
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  Uh oh, I didn't know if I was supposed to let that cat out of the bag yet.
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  But let's talk about the World View Matters conference. I want to let you know. We're excited
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  that we finally, I think we have the final schedule. It's up on the website. It's World
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  View Matters conference.com. We are kicking off at 1 p.m. Friday, May 1st, with the Alex Newman.
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  Dun, dun, dun, dun. So Alex is going to be kicking it off. Both nights, we're going to have
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  a speaker round table, a Q&A panel, both nights, Friday and Saturday, a 715, I think we're
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  going to do those Q&A panels, your questions for whatever speaker you would like. I can't
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  wait. We're really looking forward to it. And the latest is we have less than 30 tickets
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  available now. We, if we sell out and I believe we will, we're going to try to have the hotel
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  rearrange some seats, maybe put some seats in back. I'm not promising, but we'll try
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  to get in a couple dozen more seats. I think we can do that the way the room's laid out.
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  But to be continued, but we're just thrilled that there's this must much interest and so
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  far, so good. So worldviewmattersconference.com. Jonathan Brentner is an author and writer and
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  a speaker. He's been to the Men of Iron Conference here in Green Bay, Wisconsin. He's got
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  a several books out lavish feast is one, also the triumph of the redeemed. I believe that
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  was his first book. And then there's one other one. What is it? What's your third book,
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  Jonathan? Here next book is going to be called. Yeah, here after. Yeah, the next book is here
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  after. Yeah, there it is with Terry James. Yeah. So those are available at JonathanBrentner.com.
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  And Jonathan, are they also on Amazon? They're on Amazon, more so than on my website. On my
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  website, I really don't have the capability to receive orders and send them out, but they
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  are available on Amazon and also through Skywatch TV, their website. Great. I can relate. I don't
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  have a personal shipping department myself in my home office. So anyway, brother, also a year
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  over at Harbinger's Daily. You've been on there for a while. They are wonderful. If you go to
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  Harbinger's Daily.com, they've got our banner for the worldviewmatters conference on the homepage.
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  And what a blessing that they are also a sponsor. And Brianna Claussen is going to be one of the
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  speakers at the conference friends. She's the editor in chief of Harbinger's Daily News. There it
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  is homepage. And you can click and go right to the conference website. So Jonathan is on there. He's
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  got his own page there with his articles. But today, I love what he suggested. One of the things
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  we're going to talk about is God's sovereignty and how how he orchestrates the events. So Jonathan,
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  first of all, welcome. Good to see you again, brother. Thanks for your time. Well, thank you for
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  having me, David. Good to be back with you again. Yep. And we will see you. You're coming across
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  the border from Illinois. Yep. I'm going to come to the conference to Green Bay. Yes, it's I'm
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  looking forward to it, man. It's going to be such a blessing for the body of Christ just to be
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  around, I mean, the speakers, I mean, that's enough with the caliber of speakers. But to be able
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  to kind of lock arms with Bible, believing like minded family, brothers and sisters in Christ,
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  fellowship. That's what I'm really looking forward to as well. But Jonathan, so God causes
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  events and he also allows events in our lives in nations, America, Israel. So where would you
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  like to start? Well, in that article, I think we're referring to, I talk about how, first of all,
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  God orchestrated just a myriad of events over over a thousand years to bring about the specific
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  fulfillment of 48 prophecies concerning Jesus. First appearing for his, his birth, his life,
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  his lineage, and all the things about his ministry and his resurrection, all these things came
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  together and got orchestrated just so many events that just showed his sovereignty over history that
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  he could align those things altogether for the fulfillment of all those prophecies. And it speaks
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  to what lies ahead in this world for Israel and for us. So let's mention something specific.
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  I don't want people to miss this. We might have some newer or younger in the faith viewers and
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  listeners. We're talking about before Jesus was born. We're not talking about after the word
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  became flesh and he came to this planet and lived among us. And then he fulfilled hundreds total,
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  hundreds of prophecies, but these 48 now they were like prophesied about his birth where he would
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  come from different things like that, correct? Correct. Yeah, the location that you'd be born in
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  Bethlehem, just the fact of his death, the crucifixion, details of the crucifixion. We find in Psalm 22,
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  there's just so many things that are there in the Old Testament that Jesus exactly fulfilled
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  precisely when during his first appearance on the earth. So obviously there's there's some that
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  the Jews are missing. And let's let's talk about that briefly. We don't talk a lot about that.
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  There are Messianic Jews. There are Jews that believe in Yeshua, Jesus Christ, the Savior,
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  the Messiah, but a majority of the Jews and the majority of people in Israel are not believers.
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  They still might go to synagogue, but they don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah or
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  let me ask you this, John, do you know how what they attribute all of those prophecies? It is
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  it is mind-boggling if you do the math, the odds of one man fulfilling even five, eight,
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  ten prophecies. This is 48 and then of course he fulfilled hundreds.
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  How do you think that, how do you think they reason that away? He's not the Messiah that we expected?
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  I'm not entirely sure. I know that the New Testament, Paul talks about the veil that would be over
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  the eyes of the Jews and that is certainly the case. I know that they avoid Isaiah 53, I believe,
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  they talked about the suffering servant, about the suffering Messiah. They avoid that passage.
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  The only way I can figure is just that the blinders being over their eyes, they just do not see.
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  In the same way that people today who are believers, they look at the same prophecies
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  concerning the future of Israel. They're so clear to us, but not to many others who look at the
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  same verse and say, oh yes, the church is a new Israel and discount the future promises for Israel.
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  By the way, we just celebrated resurrection season, some call it Easter. You mentioned Psalm 22.
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  Friends, if you haven't really read that slowly and looked at some of the words in there,
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  it's very prophetic about Jesus, and even a couple descriptions of suffering on the cross,
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  and actually, and it doesn't end by saying it is finished or that God has performed it,
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  and Jesus' last words in the cross, it is finished. I'm not sure. I can't remember what we call
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  right now, but I know it starts out with by God, my God, way of forsaken me, which is what Jesus
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  said on the cross, but more than that, it's so amazing because Psalm 22 describes the detail,
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  the Roman method of crucifixion, which didn't even exist until the first century BC.
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  In fact, the act of crucifixion was created, I think, in the fourth century BC, but the type that
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  Jesus endured for our sake didn't come about until the first century BC before he,
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  before he was born. And so it just shows just the amazing aspect of prophecy that he fulfilled
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  it so specifically with his hands being purest in all the things that he endured for us.
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  Yeah, I think one of the lines in there was your tongue cleave, my tongue cleaves to the roof of
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  my mouth, that describes the thirst, and one of the things Jesus said on the cross, I thirst.
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  Jonathan, I don't remember when that Psalm or the Psalms were written in light of how far before
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  when Jesus was here and actually fulfilled that prophecy on the cross. Was it a thousand years?
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  Was it my way off? It was roughly that, I believe that most biblical scholars believe that David
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  ranged from roughly 1000 BC to 960 BC. So it was probably within that time period. So we're
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  talking about roughly, roughly 900,000 years before Jesus was born. And what's interesting,
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  again, we, you can't emphasize enough, it described in part in that Psalm 22 details of a method
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  of torture that wasn't even, didn't even exist at the time. You got to wrap your head around
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  that. But we need to move on, Jonathan, because you also mentioned God, so God orchestrates the events,
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  obviously prophetic events, but also world events. But he is still today, even when it comes to
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  the Middle East and the, the war and Israel, he is still orchestrating world events. Talk to us
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  a little bit more about that. Yes, you know, the more you follow what's going on in the Middle
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  East, the more confusing, at least I get, you know, and before this week, you know, there were
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  dire threats that with the ships that going through the straight up from you is that there was
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  going to be dire energy shortages, dire food shortages, the fertilizer wasn't going to get
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  through and be processed like, like it should have been all kinds of dire threats. And so at that
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  point, I'm thinking, okay, you know, God's in control, he's working all these things together.
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  And then what the latest news is still a bit confusing as to what exactly the ceasefire means,
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  and what all these things mean. And then on top of that, you have all the, all the things going
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  on here in America with the, with the political address, the refusing to pass budgets for the
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  the homeland security, just all these things going on. But then you just kind of have to take
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  a deep breath and realize that God is still orchestrating events. And even though we don't know
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  specifically how everything is going to lead to what's going to happen during a tribulation,
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  the Battle of God and May God and everything, we know that God is going to work through it,
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  he's going to preserve a Revenant of Jews, and they are going to experience the inauguration
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  of God's great kingdom. So all these things are going to happen. We know that just as God orchestrated
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  the events, it is sovereignty to bring about all the fulfillment of prophecy for the, for his
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  first appearing in life and ministry, he's going to do the same for all the prophecies that
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  remain unfulfilled today. And sometimes we wonder how then the dots are all going to connect,
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  but that for us to know at this point, we just know that they are. We see evidence that they
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  will connect, but we just have to trust that God is sovereignty will bring all these loosens
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  together somehow in the future. Yeah, God is the great dot connector if you can put it that way.
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  We don't have to worry about that. So I also like that you said he brings God's sovereignty
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  brings relief to troubled hearts. And I would just love to quote the verse that you shared with me
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  in an email. And that is, I love this one. Isaiah chapter 46 verse 9 and 10, remember the former
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  things long past for I am God. And there is no other I am God. And there is no one like me declaring
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  the end from the beginning. And from ancient times, things which have not been done saying my purpose
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  will be established. And I will accomplish all my good pleasure. Wow. That's powerful. Go
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  ahead, Jonathan. Yeah, that is powerful. And in, in the book that I'm working on now, which deals
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  with God's fulfillment of all his promises to Israel, I bring that out in response to
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  those who say that the Old Testament prophecies concerning Israel are allegories or symbolic
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  representations and that they really don't mean what they say, but they point
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  symbolically to the church, at least now they do because the church has become the New Israel.
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  But when you read that passage and look at the words, that does not at all sound like someone
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  who would communicate to us in allegories or that. And even when he did in Psalm,
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  that's Psalm, in Isaiah 5, where I believe he talks about Israel as a vineyard,
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  the very next verses described, Dullard reveals what he means. He talks about Israel
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  and Judah being a vineyard. And then he specifically describes what that means. And so when God
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  talks about the future, he declares it with a great certainty. And it's not in riddles or symbolism
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  or allegories. It's very clear and concise. Of course, there are metaphors, of course, just like
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  any author would do. However, when Jesus talked, when God talks, the Dullard talks to the
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  scripture, it's very concise, very clear. And we can go with the intent of the authors who
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  recorded the large words in many instances. And his word will not return to him void. It also
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  says in Isaiah 55, when we come back with Jonathan Brettner, we're going to talk about five troubling
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  trends in today's church. That's next. Every day it feels more and more urgent. And I think,
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  I think if people are watching this or listening to this and you don't feel that urgency,
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  then you haven't quite woken up yet. It is urgent. I'm glad you mentioned that because right on
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  the homepage of the website, it says, redeem the time. It says that the worldview matters conference.
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  We hope to encourage and equip Christians to share the gospel, speak the truth and stand boldly
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  for the faith in this present cultural dorm. And it says, expert speakers will tackle the most
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  critical issues of our day with clarity and a sense of urgency.
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  And the church really needs that sense of urgency. I think we need to wake up first. Those
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  who are not awake. It's a pretty big job. Before we jump into these five troubling trends, Jonathan,
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  pretty big job when you think about the, I don't want to say generally the Luke warm church in
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  America or a seeker sensitive church or I think a lot of people just are not engaged. They're not,
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  I don't know, maybe because of just why I see the declining biblical worldview and all the research
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  that says people are less interested in spiritual things and we're not going in the right direction.
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  Yeah, would you speak to that before we jump in?
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  Yeah, there seems to be such a decline in a biblical worldview among believers that causes all
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  sorts of problems. They're not looking at the world through the lens of scripture or through
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  what it says about the world or what is coming. They're more interested in now. And that comes out
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  in my article that I wrote about the five troubling trends in churches today could the fact that there
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  is a today emphasis where pastors don't talk about eternity. They talk about now. They talk about
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  our lives being better now. And all that leads to is an ignoring of what's going on in our world
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  today. That's a real mistake. Yeah, it's easier to be ignorant to not look at the darkness and
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  look at all the stuff that's happening and not engage. But why are we here then? If you're a
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  Bible-believing Christian, why are we alive if we're not trying to make a difference? If we're not
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  trying to share the gospel, speak the truth, return someone back returning back to God. So Jonathan,
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  the first one you mentioned is a kingdom mentality. Explain, I know people go to this article,
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  JonathanBrentner.com, the five troubling trends. And you can get in much more depth and we can do
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  it here because we're running out of time. But let's start with the kingdom mentality.
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  Okay, the kingdom mentality comes again from believing that the church is the new Israel that
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  is God's kingdom on earth and that it's not that we're going to inherit a kingdom in the future is
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  the New Testament says we will do. But that the church is God's kingdom. And of course,
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  the church in the middle ages, the Catholic church took this to an extreme where they viewed that
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  they were God's physical kingdom and they dictated what was going to happen and they became
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  the government of the time for a while. And it led to all kinds of extremes persecution for
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  true believers as well as persecution for the Jews. But today is a more milder form of that.
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  The church sees itself as the kingdom. And with the kingdom, there are different sets of rules
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  than what would be for the church as the body of Christ, which Jesus has its head.
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  So I love one of the things you wrote in here. The seeker friendly emphasis of the past decades
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  has added numbers to the church roles at the expense of adding depth to the faith of the new
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  believers. So maybe they have faith, but it's pretty shallow and it's not maybe grounded on the truth
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  or the whole council of God. Whatever you want to share, we'll go on to the next point, Jonathan.
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  Yeah, and I bring that up because that leaves the new believers susceptible to all kinds of
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  different strains of false teaching whether they be severe, such as the cults or something else.
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  But if you're not firmly grounded in God's word, taught to scriptures, the New Testament,
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  and what it says about us, then it leaves you susceptible to those kinds of things.
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  How about churches that in number two, you say elders rule rather than shepherd the flock.
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  So explain what that means. Yeah, this is a real big one for me because I hear and see so much abuse
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  that comes from from elders who make all the decisions. I was aware of one situation where the
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  elders did everything. They ruled. They made all the staffing decisions. They decided who was going
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  to be ultimately be the next members of the older board. The congregation could submit ideas to
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  them, but if they had the final decision, they decided on the statement of belief with no input
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  from the congregation. Changes in staffing were announced from the pulpit. They came about. The
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  pastor might have had lunch with somebody and decided he was going to be the next assistant
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  pastor. So there's all kinds of abuse that way. And I hear from other believers through email and
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  other personal experiences that rather than than lead rather than equip and minister in rather
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  than shepherd the flock, they rule over it. They dominate here over it, which is quite contrary to
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  the Lord said in Mark where he said that he didn't want the leaders. He didn't want his disciples
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  to lord it over those under them, but to be servants and that the greatest among them would be
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  servants. And that's a far cry from how many elder boards operate today. I might add that. I believe
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  that elder leadership is biblical, but it's not practiced in a biblical way in many churches today.
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  Good point to end that that one with. I want to share a verse real quick. First John 2 verse 15,
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  do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the
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  father is not in him. That brings us to point number three. It's all about this life. And that is
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  a troubling trend in today's church temporary things, entertainment, activities, programs,
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  other things that are not maybe they don't last. Eternally, go ahead, Jonathan.
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  Yes. And I also picked this up from another church that I attended that I had noticed that
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  weren't they with the gospel presentations. It was all about this. It was all about Jesus,
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  his forgiveness of sins, which is great. It's great that people understand the fact that Jesus
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  died in our place that he took the punishment or punishment for our sins upon himself. He paid
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  the debt. That's great. But I noticed there was no mention of eternal life whatsoever. And at other
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  times there would be a gospel presentation. And maybe the pastor would would mention John 3, 16
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  or eternal life in a closing prayer. But by that time people like me were already thinking
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  about lunch. And so it kind of glossed over their heads. It went over their heads. And so
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  and so that troubled me. But I also but I also have noticed that people that that Christians who
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  believe that who don't believe in their rapture don't believe in in Israel's restoration that
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  there tends to be a this life emphasis in in listening to them talk. It's all about
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  retirement planning for that, planning for the years ahead, making wise financial decisions.
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  And those things are good. Of course, we need to plan. But we must do so with open hands realizing
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  that our aspirations for this life could be gone. And second, they could disappear. And the only
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  thing firm that we have is our eternal hope. And when you take that away from the emphasis
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  of believers, then naturally their focus switches to this life into the things of this life.
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  And it's just so sad to see. I think it's good to plan, obviously. But we must do so. We must
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  hold the things of this life loosely in our hands because we don't know what a day may bring
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  forth. We don't know what the Lord has for us. And then days or weeks or years.
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  So friends, go to JonathanBrentner.com. You can get to this article. The five troubling trends.
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  We have time for just one more, Jonathan. Do you want to talk about human wisdom or misplaced hope
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  and identity? Okay. Let's talk about misplaced hope and identity, I guess. And you know, I think
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  there's one strain of teaching today that talks about the fact that the church is going to bring
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  in the millennium. That it's going to control things. It's going to gain control of all the
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  world's economies and all the seven hills as they talk about and bring in the millennium.
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  And obviously we believe that is false. That's not what the scripture says, not at all. But
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  but you know, even though I never adhered to that, there was a time when I really trusted
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  politics to bring in the golden age. Yes, that old Trump talks about. But even before him,
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  you know, I had this, I had this desire to get the right ban elected president, get the right
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  political party in power. Then everything would turn out well for America. And my hope was
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  there rather than in and God and sovereignty and working things out. Now, it's very important,
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  you know, I believe that we pray that we vote. And is the Lord leads to become involved in politics?
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  He doesn't call everyone to be involved in politics. He calls us to many different,
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  many many different levels of involvement. But our hope must be in the Lord. Our hope must
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  be looking to him. He's the one that's going to come. He's the one that's going to change things.
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  He is the one who's going to bring in millennial conditions after the tribulation, of course,
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  and after we've been to heaven for seven years. But our hope has to be in him for the future
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  and not in what we can do, not in the right person being elected. That was important, I believe,
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  to vote and to vote with a biblical worldview. But we just have to leave things in God's hand
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  after that. That's right. Isn't that interesting? There is kind of a parallel between
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  the Jews who expected a political Messiah or a political leader. And America who wants a
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  political savior, some people are putting too much stock in politics. But we are to be involved
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  to speak, to act, to vote, biblically. But Jonathan went by very fast. Thank you so much,
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  again, brother. We'll see you in Green Bay in a few weeks. And we're thankful.
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  JonathanBrentner.com continued success on the new book you're writing and putting together.
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  And we'll talk to you again, Lord willing, in the near future. Bless you.
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  Okay, thank you so much, David. God bless you and all that calls out with you.
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  Thank you. Thank you so much. Friends, thank you for sharing the podcast. I mean that. God bless you
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  and as always, keep speaking the truth about things it matters.