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What Happened to Ronald McDonald? Part One: Everybody Loves A Clown · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. First things first, let's give
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Speaker 1: it up for our one and only super producer Mr
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Speaker 1: Max Williams, who you may recognize from earlier appearances as
0:42
Speaker 1: a special guest on Ridiculous History. And they call me
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Speaker 1: Ben our ride or die. Our brother in arms. Mr
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Speaker 1: Noel Brown is away, but we'll be returning soon. Today, Max,
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Speaker 1: we are diving into a story worry that has haunted
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Speaker 1: me and hopefully many other people for for some time now.
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Speaker 1: We're not diving into this story alone. We're going to
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Speaker 1: talk about a mystery in the world of fast food.
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Speaker 1: And to do this we have to be joined with
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Speaker 1: an expert, a very special returning guest Max. Uh, we
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Speaker 1: both do them, good friend of the show, dear friend
1:24
Speaker 1: of ours, a famous, infamous member of the Ridiculous History pantheon. Folks,
1:30
Speaker 1: Let's have a big hand for the one and only
1:32
Speaker 1: Jonathan Stricklet a little man called Jonathan. As a little
1:41
Speaker 1: man called Jonathan may sounds strange, do you everybody tells
1:48
Speaker 1: them what to do? Expert? You say, so, that's as
1:58
Speaker 1: audio podcast. That's very well done. So, uh, everyone, we
2:06
Speaker 1: had been hanging out off air, just chatting about uh
2:10
Speaker 1: this series, this two part episode, and Jonathan, I didn't
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Speaker 1: know until just now that you have been saving that
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Speaker 1: McDonald's cup for the entirety of our conversation. Just oh
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Speaker 1: and the fries. Yeah, I have misoponia, so I'm not
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Speaker 1: gonna actually eat on Mike. That makes three of us
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Speaker 1: on this recording, So thank you. Yes, yes, we should
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Speaker 1: do an episode about misoponia at some point too. So
2:39
Speaker 1: here we go. Here's here's how our here's how we're
2:42
Speaker 1: starting this. If you're a ridiculous historian of a certain age,
2:45
Speaker 1: you might remember time when things were a little bit
2:49
Speaker 1: different at this world famous fast food chain McDonald's. Like
2:52
Speaker 1: the menu is still pretty much the same burgers, fries, soda,
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Speaker 1: but back in the day, kids and adults to life
3:00
Speaker 1: associated McDonald's with an entire pantheon of food related characters,
3:06
Speaker 1: the most famous crown jewel, Mr Ronald McDonald. And before
3:12
Speaker 1: we dive in, Jonathan, just like, off off topic here,
3:17
Speaker 1: how are you doing? It's been forever. I'm I'm quite well.
3:21
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. Yeah, I think since the last
3:24
Speaker 1: time I chatted with you. I had COVID twice, so
3:28
Speaker 1: that's great. Wow, No, whatever, it's far far apart uh,
3:35
Speaker 1: February and then June. Actually probably did have a chat
3:38
Speaker 1: at some point in between there. But yeah, I managed
3:41
Speaker 1: to get it over Valentine's Day and over my birthday,
3:44
Speaker 1: so I know how to mark an occasion. Very nice,
3:49
Speaker 1: very nice. But apart from that, everything is going very well. Okay, yeah,
3:56
Speaker 1: other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you find the play?
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Speaker 1: Right soon? So? Uh, now that we are, now that
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Speaker 1: we are well met, we have a mystery that we're
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Speaker 1: going to dive into here, and where better to start
4:17
Speaker 1: than at the actual history the origin and genesis of McDonald's.
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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but I was surprised
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Speaker 1: by how many strange evolutions and twists and turns this took.
4:31
Speaker 1: It was. It's weird because some of the statements you
4:35
Speaker 1: read don't agree with each other, and we can say,
4:39
Speaker 1: hopefully without throwing too many molotovs, we can safely say
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Speaker 1: that McDonald's marketing and pr has a very clear, very
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Speaker 1: specific narrative of their own. Would you agree with that?
4:53
Speaker 1: I certainly would agree with that. I also think This
4:56
Speaker 1: is one of those topics where careful note taking was
5:00
Speaker 1: not part of the process. Right, So whenever we're talking
5:03
Speaker 1: about something along these lines, you end up with timelines
5:07
Speaker 1: and recollections that may not measure up. But you're also
5:10
Speaker 1: talking about different perspectives. We're talking about the the dawn
5:15
Speaker 1: of the franchise restaurant era, and that's also something that
5:19
Speaker 1: we should keep in mind throughout the course of these discussions,
5:22
Speaker 1: because when we talk about McDonald's, you have to remember
5:26
Speaker 1: in the early days, we were talking about like a
5:28
Speaker 1: local restaurant. We're not talking about national chain early on,
5:32
Speaker 1: and so a lot of the things that we would
5:35
Speaker 1: associate with McDonald's much later that was just not present
5:39
Speaker 1: in the early days. Yeah, well said, it was a
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Speaker 1: very very different landscape. McDonald's is named after these two guys,
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Speaker 1: these brothers, Richard and Maurice McDonald there in San Bernardino, California,
5:55
Speaker 1: and their dad, Patrick had open a food stand back
5:59
Speaker 1: in ninety thirties seven called the air Dromee. Uh. The
6:03
Speaker 1: brothers originally had a car hop. For anybody's unfamiliar with
6:07
Speaker 1: that idea, it's I guess the best modern comparison is
6:11
Speaker 1: basically sonic. Right, Sonics does still exist? Right, Yeah, I
6:18
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, I think so too. So. So here's
6:23
Speaker 1: the deal. They these brothers, the brothers McDonald, have this
6:28
Speaker 1: restaurant idea, and if you look at the original signs,
6:32
Speaker 1: it advertises barbecue, honestly, and they've been working on this
6:36
Speaker 1: in the forties and I'm gonna jump in here. McDonald
6:40
Speaker 1: still advertises barbecue. They have the greatest barbecue dish of
6:43
Speaker 1: all time, called the McRib we're having the mac ribb debate. No,
6:49
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking the John Oliver line. It's then the
6:52
Speaker 1: second episode of Last Week Tonight where he compares to
6:54
Speaker 1: Mick rib to the death penalty. Okay, I'll buy You're
7:00
Speaker 1: just gonna leave it there. Okay, you can look up
7:03
Speaker 1: the video. If you're listening right now, you can look
7:04
Speaker 1: up that video. It's very easy to find. And we're
7:07
Speaker 1: gonna find some even more disturbing things as we go,
7:12
Speaker 1: just the advertising alone. We've got to play some clips
7:15
Speaker 1: in the future. But here we go. So it's October.
7:19
Speaker 1: The brothers McDonald have an epiphany. They look at each
7:23
Speaker 1: other and they say, hey, that's weird. Most of our
7:27
Speaker 1: profits are only coming from one thing. On the menu, hamburgers,
7:32
Speaker 1: let's close, we're closing shop. We've got to rethink everything,
7:36
Speaker 1: and they do, and they really simplify their menu, which
7:39
Speaker 1: you know, folks like uh Anthony Bourdain will tell you
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Speaker 1: is the is a good indicator of a good restaurant, right,
7:45
Speaker 1: a small, short menu. Uh. Eventually they decide, okay, we're
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Speaker 1: only gonna sell a few things hamburgers, cheeseburgers, potato chips, coffee, soda,
7:55
Speaker 1: and for some reason, apple pie. Uh I'm not an
7:59
Speaker 1: apple pie and uh aficionado. So I guess there's a
8:04
Speaker 1: reason for that. Maybe it was just easy to make
8:07
Speaker 1: and package, or maybe it's all America. Like apple pie,
8:13
Speaker 1: it's quite essential, it's very quite essential. They're bad, all right,
8:18
Speaker 1: But you guys are making me sound on American, which
8:21
Speaker 1: I mean, are we making you stud on American or
8:24
Speaker 1: you're you're the one of your questioning the importance of
8:26
Speaker 1: apple pie, which is like the most on American thing ever.
8:29
Speaker 1: You can say. Our national pastime is soccer. Now, okay,
8:32
Speaker 1: I'll play a reindeer games because max apples are originally
8:35
Speaker 1: from Kazakhstan. Boom. So anyhow, that aside, Uh, the brothers
8:44
Speaker 1: McDonald say Okay, we need a new building to reflect
8:47
Speaker 1: our new strategy. It needs to be more efficient, and
8:52
Speaker 1: it needs to have this kind of eye catching appearance.
8:56
Speaker 1: Can't just be a squat brick and mortar. And this
8:59
Speaker 1: is what eats them eventually to what we recognize as
9:03
Speaker 1: the Golden Arches. But Jonathan, you had noted that the
9:07
Speaker 1: arches themselves kind of had an evolution, right, Wasn't there
9:10
Speaker 1: just like one arch at the beginning or something. Well,
9:13
Speaker 1: it's it's that the actual architecture of the building was
9:16
Speaker 1: held up by a pair of arches that did not
9:19
Speaker 1: connect to one another. There was no connection, So you
9:22
Speaker 1: had a pair of arches, but they didn't form the
9:25
Speaker 1: letter M. That would actually come much later because Roy croc,
9:29
Speaker 1: who's a very important person in the history of McDonald's. Uh.
9:32
Speaker 1: The legend goes that he sold a ton of milkshake
9:36
Speaker 1: machines to the McDonald brothers and wanted to find out
9:39
Speaker 1: what the heck they were doing with so many milkshake machines,
9:43
Speaker 1: and that's what got him interested in the whole McDonald's thing. Well,
9:47
Speaker 1: he when he started to rethink the logo, he put
9:51
Speaker 1: these two arches into an overlap with one another to
9:54
Speaker 1: form the golden arches and make kind of an M shape,
9:56
Speaker 1: and then later on he would pull them apart a
9:59
Speaker 1: little a bit more so that they would just make
10:01
Speaker 1: an M as opposed to this kind of overlapped their
10:04
Speaker 1: inner the inner legs of the arches were overlapped in
10:08
Speaker 1: the original logo, so it kind of looked like an
10:11
Speaker 1: M and kind of looked like a mess. But then
10:13
Speaker 1: by I think N eight, he had it where it
10:15
Speaker 1: was the actual M. But yeah, it all dates back
10:18
Speaker 1: to this second location for for McDonald's. Yeah. Yeah, and
10:24
Speaker 1: this is something that you know, it is public knowledge,
10:28
Speaker 1: but I think for a lot of people listening to date,
10:32
Speaker 1: we've always just sort of thought of McDonald's as this
10:35
Speaker 1: static thing, right that came into being whole and entire.
10:39
Speaker 1: It's very much not the case. As as a matter
10:41
Speaker 1: of fact, I was surprised to learn that McDonald's had
10:46
Speaker 1: a different mascot before Ronald McDonald. He's a guy named
10:50
Speaker 1: Speedy sp e E d E E. Yeah, he also
10:56
Speaker 1: had uh so he's like a chef. He's got a
11:00
Speaker 1: hamburger head, like a vertical hamburger for a head. You
11:04
Speaker 1: can still apparently see him around some older McDonald's. But
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Speaker 1: he was never quite a Ronald. So I actually got
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Speaker 1: a story about this. Um I did not Uh what
11:16
Speaker 1: does that look, Jonathan? Oh No, that look was me
11:19
Speaker 1: being excited to hear your story, because all I was
11:21
Speaker 1: gonna say is that he has kind of a squinty popeye.
11:23
Speaker 1: I it looks like he got poked in the in
11:26
Speaker 1: one of his eyes whenever you see the pictures of him.
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Speaker 1: But I am, I am eager to hear your story.
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Speaker 1: So this is a this is from a very young
11:35
Speaker 1: Maxis memory. So like, this is back when I lived
11:37
Speaker 1: in Detroit. My family moved here when I was six,
11:39
Speaker 1: so this is very young. But there was I don't
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Speaker 1: remember what part of Detroit was, but there was McDonald's
11:46
Speaker 1: that had this mascot. Still, because I saw this one,
11:48
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, I know that one immediately. I
11:50
Speaker 1: remember this one. Remember my mom explaining it to me
11:53
Speaker 1: what the mascot was, and she didn't really know, but
11:55
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, I let's sack. I don't know a
11:56
Speaker 1: different mascot. Oh man, this this is this is creepy
12:00
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, Speedy is definitely a product of his
12:04
Speaker 1: time not being uh you know, we don't mean that
12:08
Speaker 1: in a disrespectful way. We're just saying that things change,
12:12
Speaker 1: and that's something that factors into Ronald as well. Uh, Speedy,
12:16
Speaker 1: look is never in any commercials. You're not going to
12:19
Speaker 1: hear about them often unless people are specifically talking about
12:22
Speaker 1: the early history of McDonald's. So r I P. Speedy,
12:27
Speaker 1: you whizz by us, just like you always promised you
12:30
Speaker 1: would man your word, Hamburger head of your word. So
12:33
Speaker 1: Speedy met his demise when a new mascot came into
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Speaker 1: town in seven, McDonald's officially chose a clown named Ronald
12:46
Speaker 1: as their new representative. But again, like everything with early McDonald's,
12:50
Speaker 1: this was part of an ongoing evolution. And Jonathan, I
12:54
Speaker 1: really like the way you tell the story. Sure. Yeah,
13:04
Speaker 1: so this was something that I was already familiar with all.
13:08
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have heard the story. Uh.
13:11
Speaker 1: And I started off by saying, you know, Encyclopedia Britannica
13:14
Speaker 1: says that the first emergence of Ronald McDonald was in
13:17
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. And if you can't trust the Encyclopedia Britannica,
13:21
Speaker 1: then what kind of crazy world do we live in? Huh? So,
13:26
Speaker 1: here's here's how things played out. And this also comes
13:29
Speaker 1: back to that that element that we're talking about a
13:31
Speaker 1: local restaurant not looking at it as a national chain. Yet.
13:37
Speaker 1: There was this franchise children's entertainment called Bozo the Clown
13:43
Speaker 1: which started way back in the nineteen forties, and uh,
13:47
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty six, a guy named Larry Harmon said,
13:50
Speaker 1: this is a good idea. I would like to have
13:51
Speaker 1: Bozo the Clowns in different markets around the United States.
13:55
Speaker 1: Let's franchise this children's character. So they did, and you
14:01
Speaker 1: had lots of little stations around the United States. They
14:04
Speaker 1: had their very own Bozo the Clown show. It was
14:07
Speaker 1: all modeled after the original character, but that was played
14:10
Speaker 1: by different actors, had slightly different setups in the various regions.
14:14
Speaker 1: The big one obviously was Chicago, but over in the
14:17
Speaker 1: Baltimore Washington, d c. Area, there was a television station
14:22
Speaker 1: that had Bozo the Clown and uh. They had hired
14:25
Speaker 1: a guy named Willard Scott. That name might be familiar
14:29
Speaker 1: to a lot of you out there to be Bozo
14:31
Speaker 1: the Clown on this show. And a sponsor for this
14:34
Speaker 1: show was the local McDonald's, so as McDonald's in the
14:39
Speaker 1: Baltimore area, but after, you know, a couple of years,
14:43
Speaker 1: the television station canceled the Bozo the Clown show. Reportedly,
14:48
Speaker 1: what happens next is Willard's sitting there and someone from
14:52
Speaker 1: McDonald's comes up to him and says, Hey, we really
14:54
Speaker 1: like how you were marketing McDonald's in this clown character.
14:59
Speaker 1: Can you come up with something and be a mascot
15:02
Speaker 1: for us moving forward so we can continue to use
15:05
Speaker 1: you in promotional material And he sits down and he
15:08
Speaker 1: starts thinking about this, and he comes up with another
15:12
Speaker 1: clown character, original, obviously not not at all inspired by
15:17
Speaker 1: the fact that he was Bozo the Clown. No, why
15:19
Speaker 1: why would you think that? Yeah? I don't know. I mean,
15:22
Speaker 1: he's just like, it's just as a pure coincidence, that's
15:24
Speaker 1: another clown character. But he names it Ronald McDonald, the
15:28
Speaker 1: Hamburger Happy Clown, introducing world it was Bill and Hamburger
15:35
Speaker 1: eating as Wow. Ronald McDonald, Now where is that clown?
15:41
Speaker 1: I am good? Hey, you didn't watching TV blood personally
15:44
Speaker 1: we got delicious McDonald Hamburger. Ronald McDonald the Hamburger Happy Clown. Yeah.
15:52
Speaker 1: So there's there's a side note here that I always
15:55
Speaker 1: unaware of. There is apparently a clown code that all,
16:00
Speaker 1: like all clowns in the trade agree to where they
16:04
Speaker 1: will not rip off each other's stick or their look,
16:10
Speaker 1: you know, too closely. So one quick procedural note. Uh,
16:15
Speaker 1: we have an additional non consensual guest on the show today.
16:19
Speaker 1: It is my neighbor's dog downstairs. Uh. The most diplomatic
16:25
Speaker 1: way I can put this is that if you have
16:27
Speaker 1: a dog, make sure your dog is okay. Uh. And UH,
16:32
Speaker 1: we're just gonna we're gonna roll through this, uh and
16:35
Speaker 1: hopefully everything works out down there. So there are other
16:40
Speaker 1: versions of this origin story, but I think we can
16:44
Speaker 1: agree today. Jonathan Willard Scott's account is considered the most accurate,
16:51
Speaker 1: even though it's not officially mentioned in you know, like
16:55
Speaker 1: on the McDonald's website or something. Various executives have thanked
16:59
Speaker 1: Scott for his creation, and he talks about it in
17:04
Speaker 1: his book The Joy of Living, and he makes that
17:08
Speaker 1: Bozo connection, uh, he says in part he says there
17:13
Speaker 1: was something about the combination of Hamburgers and Bozo that
17:17
Speaker 1: was irresistible to kids. That's why when Bozo went off
17:20
Speaker 1: the air a few years later, the local McDonald's people
17:23
Speaker 1: ask me to come up with a new character to
17:25
Speaker 1: take Bozo's place. So I sat down created Ronald McDonald
17:29
Speaker 1: and we, for better or worse, my friends have video
17:34
Speaker 1: confirmation that this was true. This is where we get
17:38
Speaker 1: to some creepy parts. I think it's time we talked
17:41
Speaker 1: about those first McDonald's commercials, which is where the world
17:44
Speaker 1: learns about Ronald. Yeah, Ronald does not look the way
17:50
Speaker 1: Ronald would look later on in his storied career as
17:55
Speaker 1: mascot for McDonald's. Willard Scott's Ronald McDonald is a Frankenstein's
18:01
Speaker 1: monster of a clown that has suffered a terrible uh
18:06
Speaker 1: phasing uh mistake. Like you know when you think about
18:09
Speaker 1: the mutants who can phase through walls and then sometimes
18:12
Speaker 1: they come to complete solid state in the middle of
18:16
Speaker 1: a wall, and how terrible that is. He did that
18:18
Speaker 1: with a plate or a table of a fast food
18:21
Speaker 1: So he's got like a like a soda cup nose.
18:25
Speaker 1: He's got like a a tray for a hat that
18:29
Speaker 1: has hamburgers and French fries on it. He's got a
18:32
Speaker 1: magic belt that produces hamburgers. Um, it is not it's
18:38
Speaker 1: not a clown appearance that I would associate with being
18:43
Speaker 1: welcoming and friendly and uh makes me want to go
18:48
Speaker 1: and have fast food. It makes me want to run
18:49
Speaker 1: the other way. But that's again, maybe it's just because
18:51
Speaker 1: it's a product of its time, and I'm a product
18:53
Speaker 1: of my time. It's before my time. I'm not that old.
18:56
Speaker 1: And I will say that the very first commercial that
19:00
Speaker 1: he appears in is my favorite because at the end
19:04
Speaker 1: of the commercial there's some music and he's dancing in
19:07
Speaker 1: the background in the parking lot of this McDonald's, and
19:10
Speaker 1: he's dancing and dancing, and then the commercial comes to
19:13
Speaker 1: an end. You can tell the director is said cut,
19:16
Speaker 1: but the camera continues to capture footage for about a
19:19
Speaker 1: second and a half later, so you just see Lord
19:22
Speaker 1: Scott is Ronald McDonald, arms slacked by his side, dead
19:26
Speaker 1: eye like it is. It is a walking dead vision
19:32
Speaker 1: of his version of Ronald McDonald. It's very much like, hey, dude,
19:51
Speaker 1: we get that, we got that. Okay, cool, Oh we're
19:54
Speaker 1: still shooting. Were cut that in post right? Okay? We
19:58
Speaker 1: are cool? And they didn't. Johnny, I have two things
20:01
Speaker 1: I want to say. That one is it's very much
20:04
Speaker 1: like he was like bawling out a budget. That's what
20:07
Speaker 1: is set up, is like it's just like uh cup, yeah,
20:10
Speaker 1: here we go and tray here bam, I got my outfit. Yeah.
20:13
Speaker 1: And second, um, this is kind of a teaser for
20:16
Speaker 1: a future episode we would have. Buten have you ever
20:17
Speaker 1: seen the original Michelin men? Oh yes, yes I have
20:21
Speaker 1: not for a treat. Look in the chat here on
20:24
Speaker 1: riverside you can see him. Okay, I'm gonna take a look.
20:28
Speaker 1: And this is my actual real time reaction once uh oh,
20:33
Speaker 1: dear lord, Yeah, the pensnez the yeah, yeah, it looks
20:41
Speaker 1: like the say puff marshmallow man got grilled. That's actually
20:45
Speaker 1: that is the best description I think Max and I
20:47
Speaker 1: have heard about about that unfortunate costume. Yeah, when we
20:53
Speaker 1: talked about different times. You know, just think back on
20:56
Speaker 1: all the the early turn of the century photos you've
21:01
Speaker 1: seen of creepy easter bunnies, odds, Santa Claus is, things
21:05
Speaker 1: like that. This early Ronald McDonald very much does look
21:09
Speaker 1: like a Frankenstein. His his face is an agglomeration of
21:15
Speaker 1: what appears to be food and crime. He's got sort
21:18
Speaker 1: of these uh French fried dreadlock looking hairs. His nose
21:24
Speaker 1: is replaced by a cup that would probably be for soda.
21:28
Speaker 1: And it appears that after he's murdered several people, he
21:33
Speaker 1: has smeared their blood across his mouth. Right. Uh, it's
21:39
Speaker 1: got a very um like Heath Ledger joker smile kind
21:43
Speaker 1: of thing. Go on, but even smeared more intenseness. And listen,
21:50
Speaker 1: we we haven't we haven't reached Sunday yet. We aren't.
21:53
Speaker 1: We aren't at joker smiles yet. We'll get there, but
21:58
Speaker 1: I do I do want to say that. Um. You know, again,
22:02
Speaker 1: this was a local commercial, right, this was not a
22:04
Speaker 1: national spot that aired across the United States. This is
22:08
Speaker 1: still an era where you're talking about broadcast television. Cable
22:12
Speaker 1: hasn't really become a thing yet. Uh, so you don't
22:16
Speaker 1: have markets that bleed over. Like if your antenna could
22:19
Speaker 1: pick up something from the next town over, you might see,
22:22
Speaker 1: you know, one of the channels from there. But this
22:25
Speaker 1: was not intended to be a national campaign. It was
22:29
Speaker 1: literally this one McDonald's restaurant that was using this character
22:35
Speaker 1: to advertise to locals. Yeah, it's kind of like a
22:39
Speaker 1: a Ford dealership, Like an auto dealership might have their
22:43
Speaker 1: own ad campaigns, but they don't overall represent for the company.
22:47
Speaker 1: You know, they're like Dave Davidson's, you know, uh, number
22:51
Speaker 1: one for dealer in northern Southwest Ohio. I mean to
22:55
Speaker 1: jump in here. I mean this is one I think
22:56
Speaker 1: all three of us will know is Donna and the Wolfman.
22:59
Speaker 1: We all know what that is, right, Yeah. No, I
23:02
Speaker 1: grew up right down the street. I grew up right
23:04
Speaker 1: down the street from uh, from that, from that furniture dealership.
23:08
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's cool. Yeah, but there's a bunch of
23:11
Speaker 1: people listening right now who are like, what the hell
23:13
Speaker 1: is Donald and the Wolfman. It's like, no, no no, no,
23:15
Speaker 1: we know what that is because that was a person
23:17
Speaker 1: I played for so long in Atlanta or like a
23:20
Speaker 1: general Atlanta area wif man here. You've got to see
23:23
Speaker 1: the poster avoiding the gallery fronted, Hey wof Man West Donna.
23:27
Speaker 1: Now I'm in New York City, but I'll be back soon,
23:30
Speaker 1: Nicky gown of Don. I'm dearing like por La ni
23:34
Speaker 1: king dollars, the climbers eighty eight dollar headboard, win Fuller
23:38
Speaker 1: Queen one dollar board, door Chef thirty nine dollars. That's
23:42
Speaker 1: gallery funds at twenty five eleven Road Belt Highway in
23:45
Speaker 1: College part in sixte hundred brown Big Rogan games and hey,
23:49
Speaker 1: after the wolf Man, you know what, as a matter
23:52
Speaker 1: of fact, ridiculous historians go over on Facebook or your
23:56
Speaker 1: social media of choice and let us know your favorite
23:59
Speaker 1: weird cookie commercials from your neck in the global woods. So,
24:03
Speaker 1: despite all of the very detailed descriptions we've given you
24:08
Speaker 1: of old Ronald here, he was a hit people. People
24:14
Speaker 1: loved this concept right and over the years, uh, he
24:19
Speaker 1: became a worldwide phenomenon. I don't think it's hyperbolic to
24:23
Speaker 1: say that he was sort of an integral piece of
24:26
Speaker 1: American pop culture. Eventually people from other countries started thinking
24:32
Speaker 1: of Ronald McDonald not just as a symbol of a
24:35
Speaker 1: fast food place, but as a symbol of some concept
24:38
Speaker 1: of the United States. Yeah. And you know, this was
24:41
Speaker 1: one of those things where by seeing how popular this
24:44
Speaker 1: character and this concept was, to promote this one McDonald's,
24:48
Speaker 1: it became this this idea to use it as a
24:52
Speaker 1: a national uh symbol for the chain. And obviously that's
24:58
Speaker 1: a huge, huge um And with that jump, we would
25:01
Speaker 1: see a very rapid evolution of the character. It would
25:06
Speaker 1: not be long before the Nightmarish Scott version of Ronald
25:12
Speaker 1: McDonald was left behind. And not only that, but we
25:16
Speaker 1: would see that McDonald's as an organization would codify the
25:20
Speaker 1: character and how the character is to be portrayed, and
25:24
Speaker 1: how the character is to be referenced to anyone outside
25:28
Speaker 1: the organization. Oh yeah, you've hit on something that's just
25:32
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. So so behind the scenes, McDonald's always
25:35
Speaker 1: had this kind of ethos of absolute conformity, uniformity, right
25:40
Speaker 1: even down to little things like the number of sesame
25:44
Speaker 1: seeds on a bun reportedly, so it shouldn't surprise us
25:48
Speaker 1: that they template tized the appearances of Ronald McDonald, who
25:52
Speaker 1: was becoming kind of a secular Santa Clause. Uh, you
25:57
Speaker 1: and Max and I found that they're one is actually
26:00
Speaker 1: not one, but a couple of official rule books for
26:04
Speaker 1: all actors playing Ronald. And I found a wonderful Reader's
26:08
Speaker 1: Digest article on this, and I thought maybe we could
26:11
Speaker 1: round robin some of the uh, some of the commandments
26:16
Speaker 1: for would be Ronald's. I changed the language a little
26:20
Speaker 1: because I think it's funny for them to be referred
26:23
Speaker 1: to as a Ronald. That part was me, but the
26:25
Speaker 1: rest is true. Excellent. Uh. Shall shall I begin? Please?
26:30
Speaker 1: Do Commandment number one, never hug the kids. At most,
26:38
Speaker 1: Ronald may only pat the children upon the back. Commandment
26:42
Speaker 1: number two. A Rinald must also sign numerous waivers saying
26:46
Speaker 1: that they'll never reveal what they've learned working for the company.
26:50
Speaker 1: Number three. All Ronalds can and should promote the idea
26:54
Speaker 1: of fun to their customers. They should not directly promote
26:58
Speaker 1: the food itself. Commandment the fourth. If kids ask, a
27:04
Speaker 1: Ronald cannot reveal to them the dark trade secret that
27:09
Speaker 1: burgers come from cows. Commandment number five. Whenning character, a
27:15
Speaker 1: Ronald cannot eat McDonald's food due to makeup concerns. Okay,
27:19
Speaker 1: it makes sense, so we've just got a couple war here.
27:24
Speaker 1: So here's commandment six. A Ronald has to be fit, or,
27:28
Speaker 1: as readers digest put it quote, at least have a
27:31
Speaker 1: body that appears to be fit man. I I long
27:36
Speaker 1: to have a body that appears to me to be
27:38
Speaker 1: fit man. What body is shaming? Here's the last commandment.
27:44
Speaker 1: Ronald must follow us script when answering questions asked by customers.
27:48
Speaker 1: If they don't have an answer that fits, a Ronald
27:51
Speaker 1: is instructed to say, and this is true, ask someone
27:56
Speaker 1: wearing normal shoes, which I think is actually something that
28:03
Speaker 1: we can take from the ronalds. I feel like that's
28:06
Speaker 1: a great way to pass the buck in just any situation.
28:10
Speaker 1: Do you think I could get away with telling or
28:12
Speaker 1: boss that email chain? Absolutely? And I remember being on
28:17
Speaker 1: a previous episode where there was a lot of talk
28:20
Speaker 1: about the dangers of wearing long pointy shoes. So normal
28:24
Speaker 1: shoes is a very important thing. Yes, absolutely agreed. Uh.
28:29
Speaker 1: Now we see that McDonald's at this time under the
28:34
Speaker 1: leadership of Kroc. Fully Uh, they know they're onto something.
28:37
Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies or so, they asked a like
28:41
Speaker 1: seventies seventy one, They ask a marketing ad agency named
28:45
Speaker 1: need Him, Harper and Steers to turn up the gas.
28:49
Speaker 1: As a result, the firm comes up with the idea
28:52
Speaker 1: of something called McDonald land Ronald. They decided would no
28:57
Speaker 1: longer be a solo act. Now, this this thing runs
29:02
Speaker 1: from about nineteen seventy one to two thousand and three,
29:05
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask you, guys, do you recall
29:08
Speaker 1: ever seen one of these commercials? Oh, my gosh, Ben,
29:12
Speaker 1: come on. I so I grew up in the nineteen seventies,
29:16
Speaker 1: I lived less than a half mile from a McDonald's
29:20
Speaker 1: which we could walk to from my house in Gainesville, Georgia.
29:25
Speaker 1: I have distinct memories of various McDonald Land characters and
29:31
Speaker 1: commercials and oh my, Drew Geese. You may have forgotten
29:35
Speaker 1: things being so scory, all right, and people quick to forget,
29:38
Speaker 1: but those visions haunt my nightmares to this day. I
29:44
Speaker 1: think that is that is a wonderful clockwork Orange reference there.
29:49
Speaker 1: So yeah, McDonald Land is a trip. It's a it's
29:53
Speaker 1: a built out, pretty well imagined universe. That's kind of
29:58
Speaker 1: a place of wind z and wonder picture the candy
30:03
Speaker 1: uh like the the candy warehouse in Gene Wilder's Willy
30:08
Speaker 1: Wonka adaptation. That's kind of what it looks like. And
30:11
Speaker 1: there are tons of anthropomorphic things inanimate objects are animate,
30:16
Speaker 1: and speaking of plants and food are also a capable
30:21
Speaker 1: of communication. Apple Pie trees again they there. It's very
30:26
Speaker 1: much a pro apple Pie company, milkshake, volcanoes, hamburger patches.
30:31
Speaker 1: They even have a theme park all centered around items
30:34
Speaker 1: on the McDonald's menu. And this was for some reason
30:39
Speaker 1: an important question for me. Yes, there are McDonald's restaurants
30:45
Speaker 1: in McDonald's Land. They're not worried about the inception of that. Yeah. No,
30:51
Speaker 1: if you if you look carefully, you'll see that the
30:53
Speaker 1: little spinny ride in the playground is still turning at
30:56
Speaker 1: the very end. So we don't know if we're still
30:59
Speaker 1: with in McDonald land, if we have actually escaped to reality.
31:04
Speaker 1: That that question is left up to the individual customer.
31:08
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, your imagination mileage may vary. Now. They
31:12
Speaker 1: even had a theme song and Max, No, no, you
31:17
Speaker 1: do you think we can get away with playing this clip?
31:19
Speaker 1: Catch just sound real? Take? Okay, so that's a piece
31:34
Speaker 1: of the theme song. You can hear the whole thing
31:36
Speaker 1: in its entirety on YouTube pretty easily. You might be
31:40
Speaker 1: listening to this and thinking, hey, this sounds like an
31:44
Speaker 1: actual TV show. Well, you're right, and that will become
31:49
Speaker 1: a problem later. Don't worry, we'll get to it. Uh.
31:52
Speaker 1: But we it might sound like we're spending a lot
31:56
Speaker 1: of time talking about how weird these early days were.
31:58
Speaker 1: But to be clear, uh, McDonald's as an organization in
32:02
Speaker 1: the real non McDonald land world was doing some good things.
32:08
Speaker 1: They were doing some acts of charity. Yes, that's right.
32:11
Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy four, the company McDonald's established the
32:16
Speaker 1: Ronald McDonald House. The original one in Philadelphia Fred Hill,
32:21
Speaker 1: who was a football player for the Philadelphia Eagles. I
32:24
Speaker 1: believe it was his daughter who had leukemia. And so
32:27
Speaker 1: the concept was to build a house where families could
32:30
Speaker 1: stay if their children were hospitalized in the nearby hospital,
32:34
Speaker 1: So they wouldn't have to travel hours in and out
32:37
Speaker 1: of town in order to visit their kids. They could
32:40
Speaker 1: stay temporarily in this place, and they wouldn't have to
32:43
Speaker 1: spend exorbitant amounts of money like at a hotel. And
32:47
Speaker 1: you know, we wanted to bring this up because we
32:49
Speaker 1: are going to be kind of, you know, poking a
32:52
Speaker 1: lot of fun at Ronald McDonald. I mean, the whole
32:55
Speaker 1: purpose of the character is to get kids to want
32:58
Speaker 1: to go eat fast food. So there are a lot
33:00
Speaker 1: of downsides that we can really talk about there. But
33:03
Speaker 1: we also want to acknowledge that this was an organization,
33:06
Speaker 1: or this is an organization that also has done some
33:11
Speaker 1: some legitimate good work, uh, for various communities. Yeah, yeah,
33:17
Speaker 1: and that's an important point. You know, it also might have,
33:21
Speaker 1: as will come to see, done some important work for
33:24
Speaker 1: Ronald McDonald when things got dicey, right, So, Yeah. So
33:29
Speaker 1: we mentioned there's a pantheon. There's now there's a woutang
33:32
Speaker 1: of McDonald's. Right, they've got we've got a crew. Uh,
33:36
Speaker 1: you mentioned one who's actually first on my list, Jonathan.
33:41
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about Sunday. Yeah. So Sunday a
33:51
Speaker 1: k A. Pup face killer, Uh, was a anthropomorphic dog originally. Um.
33:58
Speaker 1: And here's the creepy thing about this dog character. First
34:01
Speaker 1: of all, it has almost like like a tear type
34:05
Speaker 1: shape under one eye. Kind of made me think of
34:08
Speaker 1: like a David Bowie glam look. It has more like
34:12
Speaker 1: a human mouth under its snout, which is truly disturbing
34:17
Speaker 1: uh in its original incarnation. And it has the most
34:21
Speaker 1: chipper upbeat personality you've ever heard, which is me lying
34:25
Speaker 1: because it sounds like someone who is on the verge
34:29
Speaker 1: of needing to talk to a counselor Uh, it is
34:32
Speaker 1: a person. It's this monotone, depressing voice. You're sitting there
34:36
Speaker 1: wondering who hated dogs so much that they needed to
34:41
Speaker 1: create this character to exorcize their inner demon. I love dogs,
34:50
Speaker 1: I love all animals. I hope that dog downstairs is okay.
34:54
Speaker 1: You're right though, Uh, Sunday has what we would call
34:58
Speaker 1: big e or vibes. You know, he's a little bit
35:00
Speaker 1: of a downer. He doesn't like ticks. He beefs it
35:04
Speaker 1: with the Hamburglar. Is particularly one thing called Visitors from
35:08
Speaker 1: Outer Space, where he insults the Hamburglar by calling him
35:11
Speaker 1: Hammy and bun head. Uh. And then that that's kind
35:16
Speaker 1: of just sounds a little racist there, Yeah really, uh yeah,
35:21
Speaker 1: we don't. Yeah, we don't far be it for us
35:25
Speaker 1: to disparage Sunday without knowing what Sunday's lived experiences are.
35:31
Speaker 1: But it's kind of a it's you know, it's not
35:35
Speaker 1: the happiest dog. That's just true. That's part of the character. Uh.
35:38
Speaker 1: And this gives us a segue. So when I really
35:41
Speaker 1: want to talk about just as a quick laundry list, here,
35:44
Speaker 1: we'll go through several of these panthonic characters. We might
35:47
Speaker 1: spend more time on some than others. I loved the Hamburglar,
35:52
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. He's like fighting the system
35:55
Speaker 1: with my understanding, you know. Uh. He he's like that
36:02
Speaker 1: classic trope of so many mascots, you know, from the
36:06
Speaker 1: tricks Rabbit to the uh like the Nooid. I think
36:10
Speaker 1: he clearly informs the Noid later he's got that beef
36:13
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, well he wants to have that beef
36:17
Speaker 1: going on. I want to say that, I want to
36:21
Speaker 1: I want to say that. Uh that he was probably
36:23
Speaker 1: inspired by the character Whimpy as well from the Popeye series.
36:27
Speaker 1: Right I can. I will gladly pay you Tuesday for
36:30
Speaker 1: a Hamburger today. Uh, Hamburglar is always trying to have
36:34
Speaker 1: that big heist of all those juicy hamburgers, and it's
36:38
Speaker 1: just foiled. Usually he's hoisted by his own petard. It's
36:43
Speaker 1: normally his fault for for getting caught. But yeah, the
36:46
Speaker 1: Hamburglar was one of my favorite characters too of the
36:49
Speaker 1: McDonald's panthion when I was growing up. I uh, and
36:52
Speaker 1: I was more familiar with his second incarnation because, as
36:56
Speaker 1: we all learned, uh, Hamburgler had a phoenix like existence
37:02
Speaker 1: and that it existed in in one form first just
37:05
Speaker 1: like Ronald did, and then transformed somewhat afterward. Yeah. Yeah,
37:11
Speaker 1: ham the Hamburgler had a glow up midway through his career.
37:14
Speaker 1: He he started off as a he's like a kind
37:18
Speaker 1: of a Benjamin Button thing going on here. He started
37:20
Speaker 1: off as a villain, and it was more than one
37:23
Speaker 1: villain in the McDonald land. Uh. And he was very
37:27
Speaker 1: clearly an older character, had long, stringy gray hair. Uh,
37:33
Speaker 1: he was bald at the top of his head. Uh.
37:36
Speaker 1: And he was a creepy old guy who desperately wanted
37:41
Speaker 1: to heist Hamburgers. But then it's strange because originally he
37:46
Speaker 1: wasn't called the Hamburger at all, Hamburglar at all. He
37:49
Speaker 1: was called the lone Jogger, which is uber creepy. Yeah,
37:55
Speaker 1: that was. That was. It was supposed to be a
37:58
Speaker 1: take off the Lone rain Juror because like the Lone Ranger,
38:02
Speaker 1: he wore a mask, he had a wide brimmed hat,
38:06
Speaker 1: so he was like the Lone Ranger, but he was
38:08
Speaker 1: the lone Jogger because he doesn't have a horse, he
38:11
Speaker 1: doesn't wander the range. That was the idea behind it.
38:15
Speaker 1: In retrospect, we can look back on that and just
38:17
Speaker 1: say like, yeah, that uh yeah, maybe we've all watched
38:23
Speaker 1: too much Law and Order or something. But loan loan
38:27
Speaker 1: Jogger does conjure different images. And also, i'll point out,
38:32
Speaker 1: and see this discussed often, I'll point out that if
38:35
Speaker 1: you are an anti McDonald's person, you're anti Ronald's message,
38:39
Speaker 1: then uh, you could, with some validity say that this
38:44
Speaker 1: puts exercising in a bad light anyway. Whatever, whatever their motivation,
38:49
Speaker 1: the lone Jogger became the Hamburgler character. And then the
38:53
Speaker 1: Hamburglar had his reverse aging moment. Uh, and I think
38:58
Speaker 1: it was around nine eight five, mid nineteen eighties. He evolves.
39:03
Speaker 1: He's no longer an old, angry uh Hamburger hoarder. He's
39:09
Speaker 1: he's like a rebellious, muteness mischievous redhead, kind of Dennis
39:15
Speaker 1: the Menace. And he gets a cape and the cape
39:20
Speaker 1: is cool. Capes are cool. Uh. There's also Birdie, the
39:24
Speaker 1: early bird I like. I was astonished by how many
39:27
Speaker 1: of these were new to me. Uh. There were the
39:29
Speaker 1: fried kids. I guess we should we gotta talk. Yeah,
39:32
Speaker 1: I mean, I I remember Bertie because I remember when
39:35
Speaker 1: McDonald's introduced its breakfast menu, because again, I lived like
39:38
Speaker 1: half a mile away from McDonald's and that was happening
39:43
Speaker 1: right around that time, and the character was introduced in
39:46
Speaker 1: an effort to promote that. And you know, I like
39:49
Speaker 1: the idea of being able to walk half a mile
39:51
Speaker 1: and grab a whole bunch of really substandard pancakes. I
39:55
Speaker 1: actually really did love those pancakes is the one thing
39:57
Speaker 1: that McDonald's actually like to eat and um. And so
40:00
Speaker 1: I remember that character very well, and she was extremely
40:03
Speaker 1: klutzy and uh chipper, you know, had a had a
40:08
Speaker 1: positive personality, but was kind of seen as being a
40:10
Speaker 1: clumsy character who was always getting in her own way.
40:15
Speaker 1: Because I have a question, I want to post you
40:17
Speaker 1: all and just just kind of see what y'all think
40:18
Speaker 1: about this. But you know, and a lot of let's
40:21
Speaker 1: call it what it is marketing to children. What they'll
40:24
Speaker 1: commonly do is they'll portray, you know, the heroes as children,
40:30
Speaker 1: and they'll portray you know, the villains as adults. And
40:33
Speaker 1: I mean I wonder if like that was like a
40:35
Speaker 1: whole marketing like things that we're thinking about because with
40:37
Speaker 1: like the hamburglar him being like an old evil guy,
40:41
Speaker 1: but then it's like, oh, this guy is not evil,
40:43
Speaker 1: he's friends with all of them. He instantly becomes a
40:44
Speaker 1: child like a child. Because you know, McDonald's will say
40:50
Speaker 1: they'll be like, no, we never ever intentionally marketing the children.
40:55
Speaker 1: Oh that's all these companies will. But we all know,
40:57
Speaker 1: I mean, marketing words directly children has been I think
41:01
Speaker 1: we've done in this country country for a very long time,
41:03
Speaker 1: and we've done that episode about ovaltine, which is directly
41:06
Speaker 1: marketing the children. And you know, now it's it's basically illegal.
41:11
Speaker 1: We can still get around it sometimes. But I'm wondering
41:15
Speaker 1: if that was a concerted effort they might take. I
41:17
Speaker 1: think that's a good point. Yeah, I know, I would.
41:20
Speaker 1: I would bet on that as being part of the strategy.
41:23
Speaker 1: That it was literally, how can we uh convince more
41:28
Speaker 1: kids to be excited about this product so that they
41:31
Speaker 1: bug their parents to go and we can sell things
41:34
Speaker 1: to their parents. And I think that's exactly what was
41:37
Speaker 1: going on. You also have to look at when these
41:38
Speaker 1: commercials were airing, and a lot of them were airing
41:41
Speaker 1: during the after school programming that would be on as
41:44
Speaker 1: soon as kids would get home. You know, I'm a
41:46
Speaker 1: gen X or I'm a latch key kid. I'd come home,
41:49
Speaker 1: turn on the TV and there would be commercials for
41:52
Speaker 1: McDonald's right next to commercials for things like g I
41:54
Speaker 1: Joe and he Man. So this was this was a
41:58
Speaker 1: concerted and strategic effort, and it was definitely you know,
42:03
Speaker 1: it had purpose behind it. It It wasn't just creating colorful characters. Yeah, Yeah,
42:07
Speaker 1: I really think you're onto something there, Max. We we
42:12
Speaker 1: know that this was successful. If you look at a
42:14
Speaker 1: lot of McDonald land commercials from the time, Ronald is
42:17
Speaker 1: joined with kids sidekicks, right, and they're sort of you know,
42:22
Speaker 1: they're they're keeping this creepy old man from stealing the burgers.
42:26
Speaker 1: So there's definitely some psychology at play. There are also,
42:29
Speaker 1: you know, functionaries and authorities in this world. Mayor mccheese
42:34
Speaker 1: is is one of the most notable examples. He's a
42:38
Speaker 1: guy um kind of like maybe in the distant past,
42:42
Speaker 1: related to speedy because he also has a hamburger head,
42:45
Speaker 1: but he's is horizontal, so like the bun and the
42:49
Speaker 1: cheese and the burgers kind of his mouth and uh,
42:53
Speaker 1: he is for some reason wearing a Diplomats sash. He's
42:57
Speaker 1: very like he is the he's the oligarch of McDonald's, right,
43:03
Speaker 1: he is, he's the one percenter and uh he has spectacles,
43:09
Speaker 1: et cetera. And he's kind of like lovable and bumbling
43:12
Speaker 1: and you know, we getting himself into high jinks. Uh.
43:16
Speaker 1: He is based on another character called h. R. Puffing Stuff.
43:20
Speaker 1: Have you guys heard of HR puffing Stuff? Yes, the
43:23
Speaker 1: creation of of Sid and Marty Croft, who were uh
43:28
Speaker 1: who were They were pioneers, you know, of a sorts
43:34
Speaker 1: of of children's entertainment mostly looked back on as being uh,
43:40
Speaker 1: purveyors of psychedelic material. Like if you watch old Puffin
43:46
Speaker 1: Stuff's uh footage, you're thinking, this looks like everyone involved,
43:52
Speaker 1: from the actors to the crew, to the editors, to
43:56
Speaker 1: two people who are probably just getting a contact hie
43:59
Speaker 1: crossing the street, they were all on something and it's
44:02
Speaker 1: bleeding through the screen. Uh. That was something that was
44:06
Speaker 1: something that you could really take home with Sid and
44:08
Speaker 1: Marty Croft. And I mentioned this in our notes way
44:12
Speaker 1: at the bottom over in the little tangent side. But
44:16
Speaker 1: just since we're talking about it, I want to mention
44:18
Speaker 1: really quickly. Here in Atlanta, we for a short while
44:22
Speaker 1: had the Sid and Marty Croft World, an amusement park.
44:26
Speaker 1: It was in what is now the CNN Center, but
44:29
Speaker 1: back then we just called it the Omni. And if
44:32
Speaker 1: you had ever been in there, this would be many
44:35
Speaker 1: years ago now. But if as a kid you had
44:37
Speaker 1: ever visited the Omni, you would have noticed there was
44:40
Speaker 1: this enormous freestanding escalator. I mean, it was longer than
44:44
Speaker 1: you think an escalator should be allowed to be and
44:48
Speaker 1: that was the escalator that would take you up to
44:50
Speaker 1: the Sid and Marty Croft world. It isn't there anymore.
44:53
Speaker 1: The CNN Center still there and you can see part
44:56
Speaker 1: of where the escalator was. But yeah, that was something
44:59
Speaker 1: that as a kid, I always wondered about. That closed
45:02
Speaker 1: six months after it opened in nineteen seventy six. I
45:05
Speaker 1: was born the year before, so if I ever did go,
45:08
Speaker 1: I certainly don't remember it. Wow, it just it just
45:11
Speaker 1: informed your lifelong terror of escalators. That's true. Yeah, you
45:16
Speaker 1: know what, it's terrible. I have fallen down an up
45:18
Speaker 1: escalator for about three days straight and it was offen. Hey, escalator,
45:23
Speaker 1: escalators suck, Jonathan. I'm with you on this, man, Escalators
45:25
Speaker 1: for the work. Are you serious? They're the stairs of
45:27
Speaker 1: the future. Elevators suck too. Just give me some stairs, man,
45:33
Speaker 1: that's all stairs. I'm a fan. Uh yeah, this is okay.
45:38
Speaker 1: So the Croft thing is going to be important later.
45:41
Speaker 1: But wait, as Billy Mays was wanting to say, there's more,
45:43
Speaker 1: McDonald's land is home to tons of characters. Captain Crook,
45:48
Speaker 1: Officer Big Mac, the Professor, the McNugget Buddies, the Happy
45:51
Speaker 1: Meal Gang, Uncle O, Grimacy, for some reason, Cosmic, a
45:56
Speaker 1: cavalcade of others. But Jonathan, there's one guy we haven't
45:59
Speaker 1: really mentioned yet. It's a character named Grimace. It's a
46:04
Speaker 1: man of mystery. And then we have a question for
46:08
Speaker 1: you that I will I will defer to Max four.
46:13
Speaker 1: All right, Jonathan, do you ever listen to the MPR
46:15
Speaker 1: game show? Wait? Wait, don't tell me. I do. And
46:18
Speaker 1: I just want to say that those who know me
46:20
Speaker 1: and my alter ego, I feel really uncomfortable that the
46:23
Speaker 1: tables they have been turned upon me. All right, well,
46:27
Speaker 1: don't worry, don't it's not really question. Actually I guess
46:30
Speaker 1: it is question. Yeah, so this is from way we
46:34
Speaker 1: don't tell me. A number of months ago I asked
46:36
Speaker 1: Ben and Null this and I got a very genuine
46:39
Speaker 1: reaction out of the two of them, including having him
46:41
Speaker 1: to be Ben for a word. He said, But I'm
46:44
Speaker 1: gonna ask you this. Do you know what Grimaces? Uh?
46:49
Speaker 1: Do I know what Grimaces? I don't. I the I
46:53
Speaker 1: always thought he was just some sort of indeterminate anthropomorphic thing.
46:58
Speaker 1: I do know that he used to be a bad guy,
47:00
Speaker 1: and he had four arms and stole milkshakes. So he's
47:04
Speaker 1: distantly related to Goro from Mortal Kombat, but apart from that,
47:07
Speaker 1: I don't know. So this is according to the people
47:11
Speaker 1: that wait, wit, don't tell me. They had this as
47:12
Speaker 1: a poll question on the show. I have seen many
47:15
Speaker 1: people debate this, but I'm just telling you this is
47:17
Speaker 1: the answer they gave. He is a taste bud. That's
47:24
Speaker 1: absolutely horrifying. I will not sleep tonight. And it's your fault. Max.
47:32
Speaker 1: I feel like I've achieved by maximum goal for the
47:34
Speaker 1: day now. Mm hmm. So I was surprised into profanity
47:41
Speaker 1: when I when I learned this, and it's it's a
47:43
Speaker 1: great question to ask, and Jonathan, my my response from
47:47
Speaker 1: my assumption, we're very much in line with with yours.
47:53
Speaker 1: We canna take a flame one way flav from McDonald
47:55
Speaker 1: land back to Texas. One more thing, one more thing.
47:58
Speaker 1: He doesn't know what Grimace is. He's a blob, right
48:02
Speaker 1: purple blob? Is he catching? Is he a condiment? He's
48:05
Speaker 1: a one giant taste bud? Oh? Gross? So fuck up.
48:14
Speaker 1: I'm not okay. I'm not I'm not okay with this, Like,
48:22
Speaker 1: why is it not a tongue? I talked about that
48:24
Speaker 1: last time. If you're gonna make it that big? Why
48:26
Speaker 1: is it one giant taste bud? Why why is it
48:30
Speaker 1: not just a blob of rancid ice cream goo at
48:33
Speaker 1: the bottom of one of the perpetually broken ice cream machines. Oh,
48:38
Speaker 1: and there is a conspiracy theory about that, which goes
48:40
Speaker 1: to a different show. But I've I've got to send you,
48:44
Speaker 1: I've got to send you some articles. So, yes, there's
48:47
Speaker 1: there's this whole thing happening. Kids know all about it.
48:50
Speaker 1: Uh you know. Of course, the appeal is pretty apparent
48:55
Speaker 1: for kind of thrifty caregivers because you can buy a
48:59
Speaker 1: happy meal and you're feeding the kid and you're also
49:01
Speaker 1: getting them a toy, so you can potentially like skip
49:07
Speaker 1: the trip to the toy store. And I don't know
49:10
Speaker 1: how often that worked, but it's important. You can tell already,
49:13
Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, this world has been fleshed out. This is
49:17
Speaker 1: beyond the level of world building that most other fast
49:21
Speaker 1: food companies are going to engage in. And McDonald Land
49:25
Speaker 1: is a lot like a TV show. Turns out, we're
49:28
Speaker 1: not the only ones who thought so. Remember who Jonathan
49:33
Speaker 1: you just mentioned a few minutes ago, sit in Marty
49:35
Speaker 1: Croft in v. Three. They sued McDonald's and they said, look,
49:40
Speaker 1: this whole McDonald land concept is plagiarized from our work.
49:45
Speaker 1: The jury, which I have in notes as the justy.
49:50
Speaker 1: The jury found in favor of the Crofts. McDonald's was
49:53
Speaker 1: first ordered to pay fifty grand, then they were ordered
49:56
Speaker 1: to pay one million dollars, and they were also told
50:00
Speaker 1: that they have to pull some characters from their campaigns
50:04
Speaker 1: or reimagine them into more legally distinct designs. Yet still
50:09
Speaker 1: they soldiered on. From two thousand three, Ronald had his
50:13
Speaker 1: own video series, not calling it a TV show because
50:17
Speaker 1: it was straight to video. It was called The Wacky
50:19
Speaker 1: Adventures of Ronald McDonald. Yeah, that's where Sunday the Dog
50:23
Speaker 1: first showed up. Oh okay, so it's kind of a darker, edgier.
50:30
Speaker 1: I mean, have you seen pictures of Sunday the Dog.
50:33
Speaker 1: I think it's accurate. I mean, Ben, this brought the beef.
50:40
Speaker 1: I'm loving that we're going through a beef phase. Uh,
50:43
Speaker 1: we're going with this beef phase and not telling anywhere.
50:45
Speaker 1: We're not going to explain it. Sorry, Jonathan. It's just
50:48
Speaker 1: like Looper. So behind the fast food counter, though, trouble
50:55
Speaker 1: is a bruin, and we're not talking about that hot
50:57
Speaker 1: coffee lawsuit. Internally, McDonald's is conflicted about whether they should
51:02
Speaker 1: keep showcasing these characters or moving a new direction. A
51:06
Speaker 1: new ad agency is in the mix, Leo Burnett, and
51:10
Speaker 1: they say, look, McDonald Land, all its inhabitants, that time
51:14
Speaker 1: has passed. Goodbye to the old man and the mischievous
51:17
Speaker 1: young Hamburgler. They should be relegated to the sidelines in
51:21
Speaker 1: favor of our new slogan, our new campaign. I'm loving it.
51:25
Speaker 1: And they won the argument. McDonald land characters didn't go away,
51:29
Speaker 1: but they were no longer front and center. This could
51:31
Speaker 1: rightfully be called the purge of McDonald Land. Ronald, one
51:37
Speaker 1: of the lone survivors, probably felt something in the wind.
51:43
Speaker 1: Increasingly it was time to reassess the clown. And this
51:47
Speaker 1: is where we're gonna end part one, I think, because
51:50
Speaker 1: now we're getting to the turn right. We set up
51:53
Speaker 1: the mystery, now we're gonna investigate it. Uh, Jonathan, I
51:58
Speaker 1: know that when we originally ask you to do this,
52:01
Speaker 1: we did not say it was going to be a
52:03
Speaker 1: two parter, but thank you very very much for coming
52:07
Speaker 1: on the show. It became abundantly clear, abundantly clear as
52:11
Speaker 1: I looked at the notes that there was no way
52:13
Speaker 1: this could be a single episode, And just like another
52:18
Speaker 1: story about a beloved clown and dairy Maine, We're gonna
52:23
Speaker 1: divide it up into two chapters, and y'all, this will
52:27
Speaker 1: be it. I'm gonna love how like we're seeing this
52:33
Speaker 1: whole thing. John's gonna be back for part two, and
52:35
Speaker 1: then we're just not gonna address the fact that Matt
52:37
Speaker 1: Frederick's going to be on part two with us instead.
52:43
Speaker 1: So yes, Jonathan will be returning for Part two, coming
52:48
Speaker 1: later this week in the meantime as always, thanks of
52:51
Speaker 1: course to Mr Max Williams, thanks to Casey Pegram, Chris
52:55
Speaker 1: rossiotis E's Jeff Coat, thanks to the Man the myth Legend,
52:59
Speaker 1: Mr Noel Brown, who will be returning soon. Jonathan. One
53:03
Speaker 1: of the reasons that we're so appreciative of you coming
53:07
Speaker 1: coming on the show for this two parter is that
53:09
Speaker 1: you are one of the busiest of all our colleagues,
53:14
Speaker 1: which is saying a lot when you were not hanging
53:17
Speaker 1: out classing up ridiculous history. If you're one of the
53:20
Speaker 1: world's leading experts in technology, podcast with the long running show,
53:27
Speaker 1: tech Stuff. Could you tell us a little bit about
53:28
Speaker 1: that and where to find you, as well as more
53:31
Speaker 1: of your work. Absolutely. So tech Stuff is my my love,
53:36
Speaker 1: it's my pride and joy. It's a show that we
53:39
Speaker 1: originally launched back in two thousand and eight. Uh, the
53:42
Speaker 1: current incarnation of tech Stuff. It's a single host show.
53:45
Speaker 1: We published five times a week, and we kind of
53:48
Speaker 1: cover everything about technology. Uh. Some episodes are more technical
53:52
Speaker 1: and that I will go into a bit more detail
53:54
Speaker 1: about how stuff works. Hey, and then some of the
53:59
Speaker 1: episode dhades are more about the impact of technology and
54:03
Speaker 1: how it is changing the way we live or things
54:08
Speaker 1: that we should be concerned about, whether it's surveillance or
54:12
Speaker 1: it's the the fact that data is the new currency.
54:16
Speaker 1: It's not crypto, folks, it's your information. That's that's the
54:19
Speaker 1: currency of the world today, and that's why everybody wants
54:24
Speaker 1: as much of it as they possibly can get. So
54:26
Speaker 1: that's kind of what the show is all about. I
54:29
Speaker 1: also do some other fun stuff you will be able
54:32
Speaker 1: to hear very soon, the return of the large nor
54:34
Speaker 1: Drown Collider. It's been a hiatus for a bit, but
54:37
Speaker 1: that's my goofy pop culture podcast with my friend Ariel,
54:41
Speaker 1: where we cover some of the geek news of the week,
54:43
Speaker 1: but we also mesh up unrelated geek properties and find
54:48
Speaker 1: out what happens when, say, the Transformers has a run
54:52
Speaker 1: in with my little pony um and it's brilliant and uh,
54:57
Speaker 1: Michael Bay you can call me anytime you want and
55:01
Speaker 1: we can't wait for you to get in touch with us, folks.
55:05
Speaker 1: As we are building toward part two of this series, again,
55:10
Speaker 1: we want to hear your wacky regional commercials. We've got
55:14
Speaker 1: a pretty good horse in the race with Donna and
55:16
Speaker 1: the Wolfman the Shane Company. Uh at radio ads always
55:21
Speaker 1: you know, they're a thing, They're kind of weird, and
55:27
Speaker 1: for that we're going to call it a day. Tune
55:30
Speaker 1: in next week. In the immortal words of our pal Knowll,
55:35
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from
55:44
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
55:47
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.