Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Klaus Kleinfeld - CEO of Siemens | Fortune 500 CEO Reveals Why Most Leaders Fail (And How To Avoid Their Mistakes)

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Klaus Kleinfeld - CEO of Siemens | Fortune 500 CEO Reveals Why Most Leaders Fail (And How To Avoid Their Mistakes) · Success Story with Scott Clary

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  My first was pushed into work because my mental sense I was.
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  A money is my gateway to freedom.
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  Clouds Christian Kleinfeld is a German businessman known for leading global giants like Siemens,
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  Alkoa and Arconic. As CEO of Siemens, he modernized the company.
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  After Siemens, he took the helmet Alkoa later leading its transformation
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  and spin off into Arconic where he focused on advanced manufacturing and aerospace.
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  My mother always used to say what people don't pay for isn't worth anything.
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  I was thrown into work at an early age. My father died when I was very young.
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  Then I decided this is part of my life and I better do the things that I like and develop this
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  very simple principle. I love it or I don't love it and I can change it.
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  If I come to the conclusion that I can't change it to love it, then I leave it.
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  Always was very clear and that's probably life is not empty.
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  You better use it in a way that you enjoy it.
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  In 2017, he joined Saudi Arabia's Neum project.
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  Later becoming an advisor to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
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  Now through his investment firm K2 Elevation, he focuses on technology and biotech innovation.
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  His career is marked by high stakes leadership, transformation and strategic foresight.
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  If you are not energized yourself, you cannot energize others.
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  Many people think this is great advice but I don't have the time for it.
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  Many of the energy practices do not need much time.
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  We charge is part of performance.
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  Down time is productive time.
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  Not everything works well.
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  Everyone take a step.
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  The first step is always the most difficult but in this case it's always the most rewarding.
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  Welcome to success story.
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  I'm your host, Scott Clary.
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  You titled your book,
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  Leading to Thrive.
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  Explain to me all the other ways that people try and lead.
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  What are the other outcomes of leadership that people get wrong?
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  Oh man, I don't even know where to start.
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  So, I mean, I was born in Germany,
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  race in Germany, you know, so on the end there.
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  And I was born in the North.
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  So a very Prussian tradition.
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  Prussian tradition is about, it's all about discipline, you know.
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  There's no excuse.
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  You plow through your tough, you know, and you get going, you know.
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  And whatever the task is, you know, you don't,
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  don't re-neck on it, you get the task done, you know.
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  So this is my original upbringing, you know.
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  So fortunately, something inside of me was wiser to say,
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  well, you know, you have to know what you can do.
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  And you have to balance that.
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  It's good to push yourself.
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  I'm very much for by growing your boundaries.
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  You know, so then I've also seen some people who believe that
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  when you are a leader, I mean, when you're not only leading yourself,
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  but when you lead others, the best is you put pressure on them, you know.
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  And I remember I had one person, you know, who told me,
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  you know, I look at the people who work for me like lemon, you know.
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  And I press the lemon and there's juice coming out.
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  And I press the lemon again.
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  And there's more juice coming out.
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  Press it again. There's more.
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  And one day I don't get any lemon juice out of it.
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  And then the lemon has to be replaced with a new lemon, you know.
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  So that might have worked in the past, you know, long, long time ago.
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  You're, these days, I mean, talent is one of the hottest commodities
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  that you can think about, you know, and you have to attract people.
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  And there, I think it's not just the stick, you know, that you work,
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  but it's also the carrot.
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  So you want to make sure that people have passion in it,
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  that people grow in the business.
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  So I've always believed in the end.
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  It's the two elements.
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  It's the carrot and the stick, you know.
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  And you have to make things attractive for people.
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  And I have to have something that's in it for them.
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  You know, this can be all kinds of things fun.
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  It can be one, you know, purpose is a big one.
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  If people see that the vision that you have put out as a leader,
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  you know, is something that's worth following
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  beyond just the economic basis of the company.
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  In the delivering better lives to people, you know,
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  which is, fortunately, the case for many businesses, you know,
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  and that's a, that's a big motivator,
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  have a huge motivator, frankly, you know.
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  So those are kind of some, some of these things, you know,
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  you lead to better the individual lives.
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  Now, I mean, you, you've managed and, and led to Fortune 500 companies,
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  which is an incredible feat.
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  But when people look at big corporations,
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  I don't think somebody would look at a big corporation and be like,
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  hey, I'm going to go work there to improve my life.
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  I'm, I'm, I think that a lot of people when they get into the,
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  the nine to five mindset, they're like, this is a job and I want to advance
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  and I want to make more money.
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  And then I'm going to have my life on the side.
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  And I'm going to have this concept of, of work, life balance,
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  which I don't necessarily agree with.
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  I do believe that works should be integrated to your life.
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  But when you look at sort of your peers and even what you've done,
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  who do you think is doing an exceptional job of championing like this idea
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  of leading to thrive, not just leading to extract as much value out of these lemons
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  as possible and deliver back to the shareholders?
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  Well, there's just multiple questions and one, you know?
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  So I, so let's, let's shop the elephant one by one by one,
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  because you mentioned a couple of very, very important points, you know?
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  There's this whole discussion about life work balance,
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  you know? And that's, I mean, you have no idea how often I've had my wife
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  having that conversations with colleagues of mine, you know?
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  During dinner parties or whatever, where she comes back.
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  And somebody whisper into here, your husband is working a lot, you know?
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  So kind of like an accusation, you know?
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  And frankly, for me, I never, I never believed in this work and life thing.
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  I always thought I was thrown into work at an early age,
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  because my father died when I was very young, you know?
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  But then somehow I decided, this is part of my life
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  and I better do the things that I like and develop this very simple principle.
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  I love it and obviously I love it and I stay in it and do more of it
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  or I don't love it and I can change it and I try to change it, you know?
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  And that I love it, you know?
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  And if I come to the conclusion that I can't change it to love it,
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  then I leave it because I always was very clear in that's probably
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  because I was confronted with the death of loved ones at a young age
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  that life is endless, it's ending, I mean, it's not endless.
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  Life is not endless, it has a beginning and an end, you know?
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  So you better use it in a way that you enjoy it, you know?
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  And I actually, the older I get, the more I think that this concept of work
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  and life distinction has a classical industrial age concept.
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  Before it didn't exist, you know, we open as I still remember this.
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  We opened a smelter in Iceland, you know?
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  And it was one of the first industrial, actually, we were the first industrial base
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  that came into this fjord, the fjord was all fishermen.
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  And one time, I mean, the head of the plant had issues
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  because people didn't show up and then he went back into the village
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  and said, where are they?
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  I mean, the tons they didn't come.
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  And they said, what do you mean?
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  It's a great day to be out there fishing, you know?
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  So we had to tell them that an industrial environment,
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  particularly when you run large things like a smelter,
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  you have to run it 24 hours, seven days a week,
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  including eight a day, you know?
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  So you can't just say it's a nice day and you go out.
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  So, but a strong reminder that in the end,
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  I mean, in the old days, nobody would have ever had the idea
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  that life and work are two different things.
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  Better integrate that and don't have that understanding
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  when it's too late, you know?
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  So, yeah, so that's one point.
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  And I mean, are there role models who have done that?
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  Yes, and it's not necessarily the famous names, you know?
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  It's more, I mean, there are some famous names, I mean,
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  but it's more also people who I saw in my direct surrounding.
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  I mean, my grandfather, for instance, I mean,
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  still was in his 80s, you know, he was working
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  in kind of civil service, but voluntary, voluntary civil service,
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  you know, and did this and did this with the same passion
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  that he has, has brought to every job, a good friend of mine
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  who just recently died Henry Kissinger, you know?
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  He was over 100 years old and I really got friends with Henry
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  when he was in his late 70s, you know?
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  So, and it was wonderful, wonderful,
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  but even until the last breath that came out of him,
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  he was working on a book that was just published, you know?
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  On AI, I mean, on all things.
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  And I think what he added to the discussion on AI
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  is very, very, very important, very important
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  with the perspectives and what he added to this planet
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  has been very important, but he never saw it as,
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  hey, there's life, there's work, you know?
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  He enjoyed this and let it together.
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  And I would highly recommend to everybody.
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  You know, do it, do it, do it that way.
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  Why do you think, why do you think your view
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  because you mentioned before, so you grew up in, in this very,
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  I wouldn't say like, I say a tough, a relatively tough childhood.
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  I mean, your father passed away young, that's not easy.
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  And there's this culture of work and pushing through
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  these difficult periods and continuing on.
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  And that's sort of the culture that you were raised with.
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  So when did your version of work, of leadership start to understand
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  or start to be in, I guess, bring in more components of balance
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  and of thriving on a personal, professional level
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  and of energy management, something you speak about a lot?
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  When did your view start to change?
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  This never comes like drops from heaven and then is there,
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  you know, it comes and it comes gradually.
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  So at first it was pushed into work, you know,
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  because my, not only did my father die young,
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  but we were refugees from East Germany and East Germany was split.
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  So all of our family was in the East and my mother and father
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  were the only ones who were in the West, really.
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  You know, then later on my grandfather and his wife joined,
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  you know, but we were pretty much on our own.
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  You know, so that was why I was pushed into it.
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  I then realized, okay, I better enjoy it.
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  My mental sense was, you know, money is my gateway to freedom.
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  You know, I want to basically have the personal freedom to do whatever I want to do.
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  And money is my gateway to this, you know.
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  So in a way, I also saw it as a measure of my mother always used to say
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  what people don't pay for has been worth anything.
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  And she, I think she basically tried to instill this as a mindset into myself
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  to not being abused, you know.
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  So it used in a way, I mean, I'm not meaning physically abused,
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  but basically what people are misusing your friendliness,
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  you know, that you are doing something for them.
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  And then in the end, you know, people also don't value that.
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  So there was very helpful.
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  So those kind of things happened,
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  but the very fact that I realized the energy part came relatively late in the game.
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  It was actually one day that a very good friend of mine,
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  who I worked together with came into my office in the late evening,
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  you know, and told me class, you've been, I was a big fan of time management.
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  You've been following the wrong God, so to say time, time,
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  you've been pushing us into that late evening sessions.
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  And what was it good for, you know, it didn't last, you know.
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  And he was right.
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  And then we went into it and he said, it's all about energy.
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  And he quoted a bunch of folks who had just published a book on that.
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  And he he won the one, the argument.
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  And since then, I've been looking into it and what,
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  what really, I mean, tipped me over after this conversation is that I started to look at
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  high performance athletes, because I always thought that my,
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  that my analogy of success in business was ultra-marathons.
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  You run and run and run, which comes from the whole idea of plow through plow through,
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  you know, you just have to be trained enough, trained more, you know.
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  But then changed into life is not about constantly running,
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  but it's about running and taking time to recharge, running, taking time to recharge.
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  So it's basically, you know, time, time to recharge is productive time.
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  You know, so, and then I looked at high performance athletes and realized
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  why it's the old tenure was going down.
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  You know, while when you look at, when you look at the burnout rate,
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  even in young people is going tremendously up,
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  when you look at some of the family lies like divorce, you know, children that don't talk to them,
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  this was getting more and more and more dysfunctional families.
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  Whereas on the high performance athlete side, you saw almost in all sports,
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  and the one that I love most is tennis, you know, so I saw that they are getting older,
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  then they perform on a very top level, you know, at an age that was not even thinkable before
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  and win, you know, so I was wondering what the hell is going on there.
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  I started to look into this and realized, wow, there's a method behind this.
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  Let's learn this method, because I always thought a leader in the end, you know,
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  you have to have energy, because you have to energize others when you want to lead.
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  You know, so I want to learn from this high performance athletes, you know, that started their
• 15:55
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  I love it, and I think that it's very important to note, so there's a lot of different themes
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  that you speak about in this book and sort of in your work, and I mean, the title of the book
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  is leading to thrive, but if you're going to lead and help other people's thrive,
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  you have to embody some of these things that allow you to thrive as well because people
• 17:36
  are going to mirror you. So if you focus on time, other people will focus on time management.
• 17:41
  And if you are a high-performing individual and a CEO or a founder, and you build this wonderful
• 17:47
  company, but you don't have relationships with your family and you don't have, you know,
• 17:51
  your two ex-wives later, but don't worry, you've made a lot of money.
• 17:55
  It's like, well, people start to look at that, and they're like, well, maybe that's not exactly
• 17:58
  what I want. So there's some, there's some, there's some lacking.
• 18:01
  The first thing is you would get that, and on your last day on this planet, I mean, I recently
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  had a conversation with the hair, hair apparent of a very, very successful family,
• 18:16
  where the father made all the money, multi-billion, multi-billion in one lifetime.
• 18:21
  And we had a long evening together, and at the end, she said, but you know,
• 18:27
  Klaus, and I knew him, I knew him relatively well, and she said, you knew Klaus, he wasn't happy,
• 18:34
  he never was happy, you know, and I agree with that, he never was happy, he was proud of what he's
• 18:42
  done, and he had all right to be proud, but happy and joy in life, no, he didn't. And then,
• 18:49
  you know, the last day comes and you can't cause correct anymore.
• 18:53
  Of course. So that's, you know, to bring it back to what I was, I was mentioning, it's just that
• 18:58
  when you act a certain way, people mirror you. So if you only focus on time, or if you only
• 19:02
  focus on like traditional success metrics, that's what other people are going to think is important.
• 19:06
  So it's very important for a leader that through line is it's very important for a leader to
• 19:10
  understand how to optimize their life and how to have, how to have the integration between their
• 19:15
  family and their business and their wealth or whatever, how much money they make. But also,
• 19:21
  how do you manage your energy? Because if you can manage your energy,
• 19:24
  then you're going to be able to fulfill all these buckets appropriately. But if you don't,
• 19:28
  then one of those buckets is going to be severely deficient. And I think it's beautiful,
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  because I don't take a lot of people focused on energy management. A lot of people do focus on
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  time management. Of the high performance athletes all do, they all do, they all do. But it doesn't
• 19:41
  transcend business as much as it should. It hasn't transcended into business at all. I mean, many
• 19:46
  of the very good practices, you know, that help you gain energy are today seen as wellness,
• 19:52
  happiness. Yes, it also leads often to wellness and to more happiness. But in truth, the real
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  measure that you should you have as a business guy is performance. You know, if you are not
• 20:05
  energized yourself, you cannot energize others. So your performance, I mean, how can you be
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  a leader without energizing others? This is impossible. Unless you have a big stick, you know,
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  and you constantly, you know, chase them around. But then you lose all the talent and it's only
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  a question in midterm, you know, one of the things turns down. So talk to me about sort of the
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  sources of energy that you tap into. So I mean, the simple version is it's body, mind and soul,
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  you know, I split mind into kind of emotional as well as mental, you know. So I mean, body
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  is clear, you know, it's all a lot about movement, you know, so, but what's not so clear in
• 20:46
  some parts is the role of breathing in this very simple way to control yourself, you know, what's
• 20:53
  also not so clear to many is how do you get to a good night's sleep, you know, so I mean, those
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  things, those things are not so well understood. Then on the emotional side, I mean, the thing that I
• 21:06
  always realized people don't realize is when I tell the story about Buddha, you know, how did
• 21:14
  Buddha manage their his emotion and Buddha is going around India, you know, and comes to a village
• 21:21
  and one village was really mad with him. He yelled at him and throws crap at him. And after 20
• 21:28
  minutes, finally, the guy stopped talking because Buddha has not responded and says, well, what do you
• 21:34
  say? And Buddha says, let me ask you a question, you know, if somebody comes to present your present
• 21:39
  and you are not taking the present, who then owns the present? Obviously, the person who wants to
• 21:46
  give the present hasn't, hasn't gotten rid of the present, so the person arounds it. What he really
• 21:51
  was saying is, whatever your emotions are, you have no way to put these on me. I control the
• 21:58
  emotions entirely myself, you know, and you can yell at me, you can jump around, accuse me forever,
• 22:05
  it doesn't affect me. I'm in charge of my own emotions. I'm not accepting that you give me
• 22:10
  this presence of your negative emotions. So literally, you're fully in control of your own emotions.
• 22:16
  You have to train a little bit, you know, but that's, I think that's for many people a huge, huge
• 22:22
  discovery. And then there are some tricks that are compartmentalizations and stuff like that. And
• 22:26
  then on the my, on the mental side, I mean, the question is focused. I mean, how many people have I
• 22:32
  seen, you know, who did not see an opportunity where others saw an opportunity or see only obstacles
• 22:38
  where others see opportunities, you know, so it's really, really about focus. And then on the spiritual
• 22:43
  side is the alignment with your own values and that you can't even discuss in business circles,
• 22:50
  you know, I mean, I actually was wondering whether I should put that into my book originally,
• 22:57
  you know, and that gives you, that gives you an idea. But it is a big chapter in my book,
• 23:01
  because from my personal experience, I have to say, the spiritual energy is one of the most
• 23:07
  important energy sources in very, very tough times. I mean, I wish nobody to have tough times,
• 23:14
  you know, but when the times are very dire, you know, that is one of the most important sources
• 23:20
  of energy. When you were leading, when you were leading these massive companies, did you speak
• 23:26
  openly about energy and even spiritual at like, or were you just going to worry about being
• 23:33
  laughed out of the room if you brought these concepts up? No, as I said, I mean, the the energy
• 23:39
  management side came relatively late, you know, into my knowledge, I would say probably about
• 23:46
  when more than 20, 27, 8 or so, roughly 7, 8, 9, 10 or whatever, you know, so something around
• 23:54
  that nature, you know, so the people who I worked with, I talked about this, you know, and also
• 24:03
  tried to teach everybody, you know, through some experts, you know, how to best use that.
• 24:10
  But I mean, I also didn't think of writing a book. I mean, the motivation to write a book,
• 24:17
  even if you would have asked me two years ago, what you write a book, I would have said no way.
• 24:20
  And I'm sitting behind my desk way too many hours anyway, but the motivation of writing the book
• 24:25
  was a more intense work with CEOs as a mentor. And I realized how important this concept and a
• 24:36
  deeper understanding of it was for them to chart their course in a more successful performance wise
• 24:43
  way. And one thing that was most interesting to me to see that even in the very young generation,
• 24:50
  people who do startups, who founders, you know, how fast they are burning out. I mean, super fast,
• 24:56
  they are burning out. When you see how many people are even in the media, in the 30s, early 30s,
• 25:02
  you know, who have burned out as a founder, this is insane, you know, and I thought this is not okay.
• 25:08
  I mean, this is just not okay. I cannot let that pass. And I also don't have the capacity to
• 25:15
  to do it all. So I said, I have to find a major player. That's why the book about it, you know.
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  stay dreams, get started today with Taylor Brands. It is, I'm sure, I mean, you've been you've
• 26:19
  been working and you've been building for so long. I guess you you see a significant difference
• 26:24
  for me. I'm 34. So I see all the same people burning out, but it just seems like my peers,
• 26:30
  it seems like almost like a prerequisite for building a successful career, because so many of
• 26:37
  them are doing it. I know it's not, but it just seems to be the norm, right? And if you look at
• 26:41
  your entire career, nobody can look at you and say that you didn't basically accomplish what
• 26:46
  most people would dream to accomplish running running publicly traded Fortune 500 companies is
• 26:51
  pretty much the the extreme of stress and performance and whatever you want to accomplish. That's
• 26:58
  that's right up there. But even, you know, coming from you, it's interesting. You're saying that
• 27:02
  people are still not the way that people work right now is not a healthy way for people to work,
• 27:07
  even though you come from an environment of running one of the largest companies in the world.
• 27:10
  Well, but they don't know the interesting thing is many people think, oh, you know, this is great
• 27:15
  advice, but I don't have the time for it. And and what they don't realize is that many of the
• 27:22
  energy practices do not need much time. You know, you have to have a conceptual understanding,
• 27:28
  and I give you the extreme example of this. I mean, if you look at top tennis players, you know,
• 27:34
  the average top games last about more than two hours, you know, so and they cannot just say,
• 27:41
  I go, I have 20 minutes of time, I recharge, you know, even though it's a hot day,
• 27:47
  and I'm playing in Australia, you know, so the tennis association allows you only 20 seconds
• 27:53
  between the serves, you know, 20 seconds. That's your kind of relaxation time. But what they
• 28:00
  have learned is how to condition themselves, you know, in such a way that in these 20 seconds,
• 28:06
  they can fully recharge, fully recharge. I mean, not fully, but maximum recharge. And there are
• 28:13
  techniques around how you do that. And and what you see it today, when you watch a tennis game,
• 28:18
  they all have their routines. And when they get the new balls, they do something with it,
• 28:22
  something art. You know, everybody has an art strange routine. They squeeze it, take three balls,
• 28:26
  squeeze it, throw two away, get another one. Why do they do that? You know, they have a movie going
• 28:31
  through their hat, you know, that completely recharges them. This is a learned routine. And these
• 28:36
  are things that pretty much all of the kind of top notch pros, you know, used today, you know,
• 28:44
  including all so special forces. I mean, everybody uses that, you know, breathing plays a big
• 28:50
  important role. Yes, you have to have physical fitness. Yes, no doubt, helps, you know. But I think
• 28:56
  the discovery of saying, if I reach recharge is part of performance, you know, I mean, downtime
• 29:02
  is productive time. But it doesn't mean that you have to have equal downtime to the productive time.
• 29:07
  That's not that's not necessary. You have to you can develop micro habits, you know, a good friend
• 29:13
  of mine, he works in Hong Kong at a high rise, you know, his micro routine is he gives his cell phone
• 29:19
  to his assistant, you know, and then drives down on the elevator, you know, takes a few minutes,
• 29:26
  walk around the block, fresh air goes up again, you know. And and if somebody calls him, his assistant
• 29:32
  is right there and says, wait a second, he will come back in the next 10 minutes, I call you back.
• 29:37
  You know, that's easy, easy, and everybody can do that, you know, and there's a ton of stuff
• 29:43
  like that that I also want to put out and put into the books, very practical things, you know,
• 29:48
  to recharge. I think that's important to I think that even those small things can really help
• 29:52
  somebody reframe the worst thing you can do is just sit with your thoughts and stress for hours
• 29:59
  on end and now because we're virtual, I mean, myself included, we don't even leave the house
• 30:04
  if we don't force ourselves to leave the house. So you just end up sitting with your own thoughts.
• 30:10
  You you have a really good story in the book about the miracle on the Hudson and why this illustrates it.
• 30:15
  Explain to me why this explain you can walk through the story, but explain why it sort of ties back
• 30:20
  to this concept. Well, this now comes to the dynamics of energy and what happened,
• 30:26
  Sadi Salivan is the captain, you know, it's a it's a nice day and cold like like today it's cold,
• 30:34
  it's sunny, it's blue sky and they are going down south, you know, and they are talking to each
• 30:39
  other, the copilot and him and then a flock of geese. They hit a flock of geese while they are
• 30:45
  ascending, you know, and and first one engine goes off and the other engine goes off and those who
• 30:53
  know, no New York, he comes from LaGuardia, he turns to a left is it's where the the great the
• 30:59
  George Washington, which is over the George Washington, which both ends and goes off. They have
• 31:03
  sitting out port right there, he thinks he can get there, you know, but then he realizes it won't
• 31:08
  get him there, you know, and then he basically turns left and goes and lands in the Hudson, you know.
• 31:15
  So the likelihood of landing a plane safely on water is close to zero, you know. So the guys kind
• 31:21
  of crazy, you know, but when you when you see what's been happening as he goes obviously from
• 31:27
  he's relaxed, he is in basically almost like a relaxation, it's a beautiful day, they're going home,
• 31:32
  we had a great time in New York, you know, so his colleague is a good friend, blah, blah, blah, they
• 31:37
  are talking to each other about what's happening in New York, bomb these geese come on, he goes from
• 31:41
  basically relaxation, you know, and and and to perform a performance zone to survival zone,
• 31:48
  survival zone, you know, what happens in survival zone, you know, Adrenaline, this beautiful thing
• 31:54
  of Adrenaline kicks in, you know, hormones, and Adrenaline is extremely good, it makes us super
• 32:00
  human, you know, so your focus, your focus shifts, you know, all other body functions get reduced,
• 32:06
  you're completely focused on the task, you know, and you are literally super human, but then if you
• 32:11
  stay in that too long, you burn out, boom, you know, so, but what he does, he then switches back
• 32:17
  to performance zone, you know, he basically, you can see it in the in the transcript, you know,
• 32:23
  he first asks the tower, you know, can I land there in New Jersey, they give him permission to land,
• 32:29
  then he turns around, doesn't even talk to the tower anymore, picks up the microphone and says,
• 32:35
  you know, prepare for impact to the cabin, you know, and then he lands, you know, so how can
• 32:41
  somebody do this, you know, he did it purely in performance zone, you know, and why, why was he
• 32:47
  able to go with two engines off, you know, learning on ads and to go back into performance zone,
• 32:52
  because he has trained as an assimilator thousands of times, not only has he trained it in his
• 32:57
  training, but he was a trainer from the airline, you know, so obviously, obviously experience helps,
• 33:04
  you know, if you can move into into into a pattern, where you say, I know what's going on here,
• 33:11
  I know how to handle this, and now we're going to land that plane. So he managed to go back
• 33:17
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• 34:42
  If you're talking to an entrepreneur or somebody's earlier on in their career,
• 34:47
  what would be the advice to manage these different energy zones for sort of peak performance?
• 34:52
  Well, the first one is relaxation time is productive time. Don't go into the fog and think
• 35:00
  of an ultramarathon where you push and push and push and eventually and forget to recharge.
• 35:05
  Eventually you hit the wall and that's it. No, no. Find a way how you can get into your performance
• 35:11
  zone and when you feel you know what, do some recharging. Again, recharging can be very short,
• 35:17
  like my friend in Hong Kong, get down on the elevator, go out, you know, listen to a piece of music,
• 35:23
  you know, or whatever, whatever you like that gives you energy. You know, there's thousands of
• 35:27
  things, listen to a painting, you know, or whatever, or call a friend for four, four, five minutes,
• 35:33
  you know, write a nice email or whatever, whatever gives you energy and then get back in it.
• 35:38
  Just get back in it or close your eyes to a breathing exercise, you know, boom, you know,
• 35:42
  gets you, gets you back, gets you back into it. That's one thing. Secondly, you know, whenever you
• 35:47
  feel you're going from performance zone into survival zone, you know, understand that that has a
• 35:54
  positive one because you're now superhuman, it has also a positive one because you're expanding
• 36:00
  your comfort zone. So it's good if you do that once in a while, but the moment this goes on is
• 36:05
  like you're on a clock, you know, now you have to make sure that you're relatively quickly going
• 36:11
  back to your performance zone. So in reality, you have to find a way how you how how you frame the
• 36:19
  situation differently, you know, so that you are able to go back into your performance zone,
• 36:24
  right? So take an action that gets you out of the survival zone into your performance zone or
• 36:31
  train this in a controlled environment, you know, like Saudi has done, he's been in a simulator
• 36:36
  in a controlled environment on smaller, I mean, I've done restructurings many, many times,
• 36:41
  when we started with small restructurings, and they got big and then they got very big and I
• 36:44
  got jagged gigantic big, you know, but if I had done the gigantic big one, I probably would have
• 36:50
  died, you know, so but as I knew going into it, I had a pattern recognition and said, oh, this
• 36:56
  is happening, oh, this is happening. So, you know, you know, how to handle it, you know, you
• 37:01
  mentioned something. So I want to move on to I want to move on to some of the restructurings and
• 37:06
  sort of some transformation, the leadership stories that you've been a part of, because I think
• 37:10
  that, I mean, you have some, you have some incredible stories, you can pick which ones, I mean,
• 37:14
  you think are most relevant to the audience, but one that in particular I found interesting was the,
• 37:21
  I mean, you managed the Siemens X-ray division turnaround, you managed Alkoa from 2008, 2009,
• 37:29
  there was some crises that you dealt with. So talk to me about, I mean, now we understand
• 37:33
  sort of the playbook for what is optimal leadership, what is optimal,
• 37:38
  what is optimal leadership for yourself, for your team, for your company, now, you've applied
• 37:42
  this very successfully. So let's talk about how a leader operating in the right mind actually
• 37:47
  sort of executes. Well, I mean, I think it brings us to the pinnacle that connects us because on
• 37:54
  the end of the side, the one thing we didn't talk about was purpose, you know, we haven't talked
• 37:58
  about purpose and purpose is what what a laser does to light, you know, when light is normally
• 38:05
  as diffuse, you know, you put it into laser, it brings it into a beam that can literally go
• 38:12
  through any material, destroy anything, you know, and that's what purpose does to energy, the
• 38:16
  energy is diffuse, you have it, but the moment you say, this is my purpose, or these are my
• 38:21
  purposes, you suddenly have something where the energy goes into tune, you know, so this is
• 38:28
  important. Now, purpose on the business side, if you want to translate your own purpose or the
• 38:35
  purpose of the business into the people who work for you, we would need a vision, you know,
• 38:43
  we need a vision that makes them understand, I'm doing something that has a higher value than
• 38:49
  just putting together extreme machines, you know, or angiography machines, you know, and the
• 38:55
  problem there was, at Siemens, it was the longest standing division and medical, super successful,
• 39:00
  super, super, it was a birthplace of Siemens medical, but it has kind of been put into the shadow by
• 39:07
  the more modern ones like ultrasound, computer tomography, magnetic resonance, and it was also not
• 39:13
  making money. So many people had tried to turn it around and then they gave it to me kind of,
• 39:19
  another guy trying it out, you know, and I asked them to be able to go to hospitals to see how
• 39:27
  the equipment is used and that was, I was the moment when my aha moment, because I realized when
• 39:33
  I saw the patient and talked to the doctor, is that we had something that nobody else had, we
• 39:37
  actually could use the x-ray for not just the diagnosis, but also for the intervention for the
• 39:43
  cure, and you may remember you're too young, probably too young, but many other might remember,
• 39:48
  there was a time when surgery was the thing, these days fortunately you can do a lot,
• 39:52
  you could call it minimally invasive, you know, so we're literally not even in the teacher,
• 39:56
  it's needed for this, and that needs image guidance in most cases, you know, so you need an
• 40:00
  extra machine to see where is this thing in your body that they are pushing through, you know,
• 40:06
  so I had this idea, then I invited a young woman to our all-hands meeting who I knew
• 40:14
  whose life was saved, you know, by exactly that, the right diagnosis with our equipment and then
• 40:21
  also treatment, and didn't tell anybody, she told her story, and I gave her in the medical
• 40:26
  environment, you have stringent regulation, so you have to document who worked on what
• 40:32
  machines, so I gave her the list of all people who had worked on the machines that she was diagnosed
• 40:37
  and treated with, she read out this, this names, and brought the people on stage,
• 40:42
  wow, I mean these are people in the northern part of Bavaria, who cannot easily be moved,
• 40:46
  you know, they've seen a lot in their lives, you know, but on that day there were a lot of people
• 40:51
  with tears in their eyes, you know, so now that, and that, I mean in the evening, the head of the
• 40:57
  labor union, busy, told me, Klaus, you brought our soul back, you know, so because before they
• 41:02
  saw themselves as a restructuring case, and I completely forgotten, completely forgotten what great
• 41:07
  things they have been doing, and when I mean, when I told some of the people on the shop floor,
• 41:12
  you know, who are late with their equipment, I said, do you understand that this equipment goes
• 41:17
  to the US, you know, to that little village, the village has just taken the old machine out,
• 41:22
  and now in the radius of about 100 miles, you know, people cannot be diagnosed, are you aware that
• 41:28
  this is what's happening because we cannot get this machine shipped on time, you know, and the
• 41:33
  moment people understand this, this is one thing, but the moment they see a patient and realize
• 41:38
  this could be me, this could be my mother, this could be my sister, you know, that makes all the
• 41:43
  difference, I mean, so from that on motivational, I don't think we had an issue and business wise,
• 41:48
  so we did the right things. I just want to take a quick break and thank the HubSpot podcast
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• 42:40
  and this is what ended up helping with the turnaround of the whole division. That was major,
• 42:44
  major for the turnaround, major. I wonder, I wonder how many people listening to this who are working
• 42:50
  in jobs understand the purpose of the company that they're working for. Yes, they're my upbringing
• 42:59
  and partially too with two societies has helped me being sensitive to this because it was
• 43:05
  kind of marks, to criticize capitalism and set the industrialization has really led to a
• 43:12
  lack of understanding of for the worker what the work is good for. The worker has become an
• 43:20
  exchangeable, completely exchangeable good and we have to bring meaning to them back and I
• 43:25
  strongly believe that and I think it's doable in almost all jobs. We did the same thing in Al-Qua
• 43:30
  with inviting an astronaut and having an astronaut talk to the employees. Is this how you manage the
• 43:38
  crisis in July 2008? No, 2008, this was not a question of our motivation. Everybody was
• 43:45
  motivated, big time motivated. This was more a question of the world is coming to an end and we
• 43:51
  had the price of metal drop to one third drop to in less than six months. So let's say you have
• 43:58
  a hundred dollars and suddenly the good that you're producing only gets sold for thirty dollars
• 44:03
  there's no way you know you can adjust to this just none and that was brilliant, brilliant response
• 44:11
  from the whole organization, but the organization was hugely motivated. I was lucky to have the
• 44:16
  very very, but you still, but they still had to understand like every single director, every single
• 44:21
  executive thought to understand the purpose that you were trying to achieve because if not,
• 44:25
  I mean nothing is keeping them there. They can still go somewhere else and they can jump
• 44:29
  ship, but they feel like this is not going in the right direction. That is correct. That's correct.
• 44:33
  The more people you can have, you will never be able to get everybody to passion. Some people
• 44:41
  are cynics, some people just say, hey, I don't give a damn, I'm just in it for the money, fine,
• 44:46
  you know, and some of it, yeah, whatever, you know, but that's fine, you know, but the more people
• 44:54
  you can make understood why they are doing what they are doing and what the impact of that is,
• 45:00
  the better off you are. I'm curious because obviously this is important to you because it's been
• 45:04
  impactful in your life. How did you, I mean you had a good relationship with Kissinger,
• 45:11
  what was his purpose and how did he align that with what your personal goals were because I find
• 45:17
  that very fascinating as well? Well, I mean Henry would probably be much better suited if he
• 45:24
  were still alive to say that. I think how I perceived him, he had a very amazing life born in
• 45:31
  Germany and fled to the US, you know, very humbling experience here in New York, you know,
• 45:39
  and then when as a universe, he defined himself as a history professor. He never defined
• 45:45
  himself, I think, as a politician that came probably a little later, but even when his late life,
• 45:51
  I think his main, main deficit definition was, I'm a history professor and there's this old saying,
• 45:59
  history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes, you know, and I think he believed him and he believed in
• 46:05
  the deeper the understanding you have on historic mechanisms, the better off you are and seeing
• 46:13
  things around the corner and one of my matters for leaders is I don't want, I don't measure the
• 46:18
  leader of explaining to me what they've done in the past and why certain things work and why they
• 46:23
  didn't. I look at a leader of somebody who looks around the corner who can basically tell me,
• 46:28
  this is most likely what can happen, you know, give me a range of good and bad and say these are
• 46:34
  the counter-action, or this is how we're going to use it. And Henry, I think saw himself like that,
• 46:38
  you know, and how can this be used in a way to make the US strong or to be honest, you know,
• 46:47
  that that was always, I think, his perspective. I think that, I mean, if I look at your work too,
• 46:51
  you've obviously, I think that, first of all, I agree, I think that it's smart to study the past
• 46:56
  and to look for patterns and I think that you don't always have to reinvent the wheel,
• 46:59
  it's have the reason why, I mean, this podcast is trying to tap into the wisdom, not that far
• 47:06
  in the past, but tap into wisdom, a people that have sort of figured it out. So the listeners don't
• 47:09
  have to reinvent the wheel and figure things out from scratch, right? That's really the goal of
• 47:13
  this. And I think that's the goal of his work. And that's what you sort of adopted as well. Because I
• 47:17
  see, I see again, a pattern like you reference Sun Su, you reference a Klaus Whitt. So you reference
• 47:25
  historical works that impact how you think and how you strategize. So now that makes a ton of
• 47:31
  sense. So talk to me about even some of this sort of strategic historical wisdom that you speak
• 47:36
  about. Well, I mean, in the book, the biggest part, the biggest section on historic wisdom is the
• 47:48
  part on purpose, because I've always struggled with this concept of purpose. And I thought this is
• 47:55
  a good thing that I use the time for writing a book to figure it out for myself to sort it out.
• 48:01
  And then I decided that the best thing is to make this process transparent for the reader,
• 48:08
  because my assumption was that many are struggling in the same way or have been struggling in the
• 48:12
  same way that I have. Yet it is a concept that has been relevant for mankind almost as long as
• 48:20
  mankind exists. That's kind of fascinating. You know, so how is it that there is a concept that
• 48:27
  is so important? And still, you know, it is when I'm talking about it much. So that's why I call it
• 48:36
  the right through time and space when you go through the chapter and it starts with fundamental
• 48:42
  ancient religions and goes into the Greeks as well as the Roman Romans, you know, looks at
• 48:48
  looks at stoics, you know, looks at also as into Buddhism, you know, and looks into more modern
• 48:56
  thinkers, you know, like Deepak Chopra was his combination of science and the Eastern philosophy as
• 49:03
  well as Akartoller, you know, and who I'm a big fan of, you know, a really big fan of, you know,
• 49:10
  unfortunately, I've never met him. He's German also, but never met him. So I think he's
• 49:16
  more popular here than he is in Germany. But anyway, so, so, so and and I provide and then I also
• 49:22
  looked at what what have we learned from people who have died, you know, and in the last last days,
• 49:28
  you know, and and and and also what have we learned from the research around longevity. And also,
• 49:34
  I try to provide this so that people can make up their own mind and say, what is it that I care
• 49:41
  for? You know, because there are some philosophies that say, you want to be a good citizen, you want to
• 49:46
  do good for, you know, your community, you know, other spaces, you come to say, it's your journey
• 49:53
  of self-discovery, you know, it's not an endpoint, it's a journey, you know, so there's a lot of ways
• 49:59
  and you I think in the end should go on this journey yourself and figure out what is it that
• 50:05
  gives you joy and progress. If you're going to look at sort of your death, your your purpose,
• 50:12
  as it's evolved, as you've gotten more wise and you've and you've lived more and learned more,
• 50:17
  how is your how is your purpose changed over your life? Well, first of all, I don't think it's
• 50:22
  I think I have more than one purpose, you know, and because I think I have more than one rule,
• 50:29
  you know, I'm a husband, I'm a father, you know, and now even I have grandchildren, you know,
• 50:36
  so and I have certain purposes in that, that role and then today and I have my own businesses,
• 50:43
  you know, and also also mentoring CEOs, you know, so in each one, I follow a different, different
• 50:51
  purpose. I think the overarching thing is, I mean, I try to give give people learnings that
• 50:59
  hopefully make them happier and more successful life and that they don't have to make all the
• 51:06
  mistakes that I've made, you know, so so so I never learned learned from that, you know, I think
• 51:13
  that it's important that that purpose can evolve over time. I think that that and also purpose
• 51:18
  doesn't have to be just one thing at a time. I think that's very wise because I think that you're
• 51:21
  right, everyone is trying to figure out what they're put on this earth to do and it's it's confusing
• 51:27
  and it's difficult. You mentioned another thing too, which I want to understand the similarities
• 51:33
  and the differences. So you mentioned, you speak about values in the context of performance,
• 51:39
  but values to me sound very similar or they're adjacent to purpose. So how would you consider or how
• 51:47
  would you define values in purpose in terms of needing them to impact your performance as an
• 51:57
  individual? Can you perform without them or do you need to figure those first?
• 52:02
  Well, first of all, the word values doesn't say positive or negative values, but it's mostly
• 52:10
  meant as positive values, you know, so that's also how I use it in the book. There are people who
• 52:18
  say values are for the faint ones, you know, power is just about power and what really matters is
• 52:26
  that I get more power, you know, and they might see most of the things in life as a zero-sum game,
• 52:36
  you know, where I see it as, hey, it's about broadening, broadening the pie, and if we work together,
• 52:43
  we can all get a bigger piece than working against each other, you know, but that's not necessarily
• 52:49
  the common thought for everybody, I think you can't assume that, you know. So purpose is really
• 52:58
  something that either you want to directly go in that direction or you want to achieve, you know,
• 53:05
  so that does not necessarily mean that it is a positive thing, you know. So values is about what
• 53:11
  does that, if you achieve that, what does that stand for, you know. So if you, let's talk about
• 53:19
  wonderful Austrian fellow who happened to cause the world a lot of trouble, you know, who failed
• 53:27
  that his philosophy was a philosophy that he wanted to bring as a gift to the whole world and
• 53:33
  wanted to basically own it and cause a second world war because of that, you know. So his purpose
• 53:41
  was very clear, you know, he wanted domination, you know, for this, you know, but values wise,
• 53:47
  I think most people would agree with me that that was not, that was not typically what we would
• 53:52
  consider as the right values, you know. No, and values just broader, you know, as broader than that,
• 54:00
  broader than that. Purpose is about most cases about outcome or going into direction of outcomes,
• 54:05
  you know. And then the values is whether or not you're doing in the in the right way,
• 54:11
  yeah, whether in the moral way, in the right way, or it's just something when you achieve it,
• 54:15
  that makes the world a better place, you know. So, do you can have as a business leader,
• 54:20
  you can have a high performer that has a purpose, but their values do not align.
• 54:26
  And in fact, you have that more than you think. I just want to take a second and thank
• 54:30
  fresh books for supporting today's episode. Now, there are three numbers that you have to know.
• 54:33
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• 55:40
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• 55:51
  offer. What do you do with that person? I have believed and seen it many times that if you do not
• 55:58
  eliminate that person from your firm as quickly as possible, you know, you have a cancer.
• 56:04
  You have a cancer and you will not be able to have an environment for high performer. High
• 56:11
  performers for a long time. So it works for if somebody just optimizes short-term performance,
• 56:17
  it works. That's not an issue. Short-term can even be a few years. And if it's about a
• 56:22
  repetitive business, if it's some business where you don't need intelligence and you don't need
• 56:26
  people, you can do it as long as you want. So it's kind of comes close to slavery, modern
• 56:31
  version of slavery. But if you want, if you are in a business where the most of the businesses
• 56:38
  these days, I mean, I would say 80% of the wisdom's worldwide need the skills of the individuals as
• 56:44
  the most important competitive advantage, because the world is so much changing and people
• 56:48
  have to immediately adopt, you know, and this is the ingenuity of humankind that shows us that.
• 56:54
  So there you have to be attractive for top-notch performers and you have to be able to make them
• 56:58
  work together. So people who are just in it for themselves and screw over others or kiss up and
• 57:05
  kick down, that's not what you want. How, I mean, when you obviously, when you're when you're
• 57:10
  just starting out, it's a little bit easier to figure out if these people have these values,
• 57:16
  systems that don't align. But talk to somebody who's running a large organization, because there's
• 57:21
  people in this in this audience who do run large businesses. And I'm sure they know they have
• 57:27
  a cancer in their company, but it's very hard to find out where it is. When you scale to a certain
• 57:32
  point, what would be your strategy? When you have thousands of employees? What's the frame?
• 57:37
  I think that your premise might not be right. And I think that a good leader very often has
• 57:43
  enough indicators to figure out that that person is not really somebody who works with the team,
• 57:50
  but it's rather, as I said, kissing up and kicking down, you know, I think the harder thing for
• 57:56
  most leaders is if this is a top-notch performer, and that performance matters for their performance
• 58:02
  as a leader, to then say, I'm going to kick that person out, because very often this is the
• 58:06
  biggest performer. And that makes your bonus, you know, a part of your bonus. The biggest issue is,
• 58:12
  do I take the leap of faith and kick that person out, even though I know I cannot immediately replace
• 58:18
  the person with an individual that has the same performance? I've seen that being the most
• 58:23
  problematic thing, you know. But I also address the first one, how do we find out, you know, as a
• 58:29
  good leader, you should have your ear on the ground and see very carefully watch. You know, there
• 58:35
  are methods like Net Promoter Score that you can use as employee engagement, but even there I've
• 58:40
  seen that leaders like this have a mechanism, you know, to challenge the employees to say it
• 58:48
  mildly so that the Net Promoter Score looks well. But there are ways. I think for a decent
• 58:55
  experienced leader, it's not difficult. They sometimes probably have a good self-defense mechanism
• 59:02
  to feel that they are not sure, and therefore they can't take action, you know, maybe out of their
• 59:08
  own self-defense to continue to have that acidic performer still there. What would be, I mean,
• 59:14
  you've ran companies that are in the multi-billions of dollars of revenue. What would be one piece of
• 59:20
  advice that is applicable when you're running a company that size, that is still applicable to
• 59:27
  when you're just starting out? There's a ton of those things, you know, but the one thing, let me
• 59:33
  focus on one that's often probably forgotten or misunderstood. In the end, also, it's not only
• 59:40
  the strategy that's important. The strategy is very important, but you also have to have the skills
• 59:45
  of drilling down. And I think this combination of, on the one hand, being able to see where the
• 59:52
  outside world going and what tendencies are there, what could work, what could not work, looking
• 59:57
  around the corner, that's extremely important. That is, at the same time, extremely important,
• 1:00:03
  to also, if necessary, drill down to the very bottom level, go down to what is really going on
• 1:00:09
  there. Because if you only stay on this top level, you might find yourself in an ivory tower
• 1:00:14
  isolated and non-understanding that you think that that's the ship that you run and reality,
• 1:00:19
  and you think is a pretty nice cruiser, and in reality, the machine looks pretty ugly and they
• 1:00:24
  are cranking the engine and the oil is already spilling. And you did that, even, or any other
• 1:00:30
  company. Always done that. That's my, that has to be my second nature. I think, you know, and also,
• 1:00:37
  because I don't think you have to be an expert in this, you know, I think what people,
• 1:00:43
  that's another thing that you learn is, it's not the answers that lead you. It's the questions
• 1:00:48
  that you ask. How many times, I mean, people, you can learn a lot through questions, so don't be shy,
• 1:00:54
  if you, I mean, one of the, the, the, the red lights that go on for me is if somebody tells me,
• 1:01:01
  after I've asked three times, Clouds, this is complicated and we won't have the time. And I say,
• 1:01:05
  look, wait a second, I have all the time, I just want to understand what's the issue here, you know,
• 1:01:11
  then the person goes in, starts to explain to me, and I still can't understand it. After the third
• 1:01:15
  time, I say, look, do you realize that you are talking mumble, jumble to me and language that I
• 1:01:20
  don't understand? And I don't understand it, you know, so then the person says, yeah, you know,
• 1:01:25
  it's complicated, that we were there before. It's complicated, right? So, so, so, and then it comes
• 1:01:31
  to the point where I say, look, just to make it crystal clear, who has a problem with this
• 1:01:35
  conversation? You know, me who do not understand that what you're saying, or you who cannot explain it
• 1:01:42
  to me, and to be very clear, you know, I am your boss. So, you have the problem, you know, I think
• 1:01:49
  it also show, I was going to say, I think it also shows their level of competence, if they can,
• 1:01:53
  if they can find a way to simplify it. To be honest, you know, I have the, the privilege to also be
• 1:01:58
  an honorary senator, they call it, the Nobel laureates meeting in Lindo. And when you talk to
• 1:02:03
  these individuals, highly accomplished and feels that I have foggy side years, but when you ask them,
• 1:02:09
  what exactly are you doing? Almost all of them can explain it to you in a language that you say,
• 1:02:15
  get it, I get it, I might not get all the details, but I get it. Amazing. I want to, I want to just
• 1:02:23
  give a shout out. So, the book leading to thrive, it's available everywhere you want to get book.
• 1:02:27
  So, Amazon and, and all the, all the regular bookstores. I have a couple just rapid fire to close
• 1:02:33
  it up, but before we finish this out, where else do people connect with you? Where, where do you,
• 1:02:38
  where are you most available on social or website, all of that? There's a website leading to thrive,
• 1:02:45
  and that is probably the easiest way you can, there's a way to connect, to connect with me.
• 1:02:51
  The, the biggest, yes, so that's the way you should, you should, you should leave a message there
• 1:02:56
  and, and say, hey, you know, this, this is what I, what I want, you know, yes, I know, I'll put
• 1:03:02
  that all in the, I'll put that all in the show notes as well. Do you have any socials that you
• 1:03:06
  still keep writing or is it the one that I, the one that I really do myself is linked in, you know,
• 1:03:12
  and the others, because I, I mean, it's, it's a professional environment. I mean, I'm not talking to
• 1:03:16
  the general audience, I'm talking to people who are leaders, I want to be leaders, you want to
• 1:03:20
  learn about leadership, you know, so LinkedIn is the right, is the right medium for that.
• 1:03:25
  Just to close this out. First of all, I just want to say thank you for coming on, and I appreciate
• 1:03:29
  your time. Was there anything that, you think is an important piece of wisdom to leave the audience
• 1:03:36
  with a question that I, maybe I didn't ask you or something that we didn't go into?
• 1:03:40
  No, I don't think so. I think we, we touched most of the points and I mean, I would just say,
• 1:03:45
  take a look, you know, try some of the things out, I try to keep it as practically as possible,
• 1:03:51
  you know, also language wise, you know, I mean, I'm a practitioner, I speak to a practitioner,
• 1:03:57
  so it's not that I can't speak to you radically, but I don't think it's interesting to be honest,
• 1:04:02
  you know, so I hope, I hope it's enjoyable, it's enjoyable. No, I think we touched on most of the
• 1:04:08
  try it out. I mean, in the end, you know, there's a number of things, not everything works for
• 1:04:12
  everyone, you know, so take a step, you know, and as it has, you know, the first step is always
• 1:04:21
  the most difficult, but in this case, always the most rewarding, you know, I think that's great.
• 1:04:26
  I mean, listen, the lessons that you've learned over your career, you don't want somebody to feel
• 1:04:31
  like they're drinking from the fire hose, trying to take in ex years of experience and wisdom
• 1:04:37
  and applying it into their startup tomorrow, but if they take one idea and they run with it,
• 1:04:41
  and it improves their lives by a measurable amount, that's a, that's a win, and then you take the
• 1:04:46
  next one. Exactly, exactly, exactly. The last question I always like to ask, because again,
• 1:04:51
  you've had a great career, multiple seasons of your life and of what you've built.
• 1:04:57
  If you could give one last lesson to not even your younger self, but say you wanted to impart
• 1:05:04
  some words of wisdom with your children, what would be some wisdom that you would want to leave
• 1:05:09
  them with? Spend some time with yourself to learn who you are and who you want to be,
• 1:05:16
  because that's the most difficult thing. Most people very often get carried along, you know,
• 1:05:22
  and the path of life brings them somewhere, and then in late point in time they realize that
• 1:05:30
  that was not really what they wanted, and don't have fear, you know, don't be fearful, you know,
• 1:05:41
  my definition of fear is false expectation that appears real, false expectation appearing real,
• 1:05:47
  you know, and that's very often the case, you know, and have the courage, have the courage,
• 1:05:52
  and follow the path of love it, change it or leave it, you know, and then I think the
• 1:06:02
  scenarios much more likely that you will have a happy, happy, joyful life.