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Rise Literary's Kristen McGuiness & Hollywood Producer Joy Gorman x Main Chapter · Main Chapter

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, my butterflies, and welcome to this week's episode of the Meaning Chapter Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't already, please be sure to like and subscribe.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have a mini golden subscribers, and I would love to achieve that now.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing something a little different.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that's the beginning of publishing house in Los Angeles.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was honestly a little intimidated.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: But they were so surprised.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's super exciting.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you love stuff about Hollywood production and adaptation, how things come to life.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you have your post notifications on for Hollywood reporters, writing deadline, this is for you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you aren't into that and just into watching adaptations casually, we talk about those as well.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about heater rivalry, we mention people you met on vacation, we mentioned off campus that's coming out very soon.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great podcast episode that I encourage you all to listen to.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go ahead and get started with the interview.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So my first question is for you, Kristen.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So Rise Literary is already a standout because it's based in Los Angeles when a lot of publishing houses are in New York City.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So what made you choose the West Coast and what do you think its biggest advantage is?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think we're here seeing the biggest advantage, which is actually the proximity to the entertainment industry.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: But um many years ago, I basically had to make a choice: did I want to stay in book publishing or did I want to stay in Los Angeles?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so yeah, I was up for actually a big job at Simon and Schuster.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I remembered I was like, I was actually at all places at the Chateau Marmont with the editor talking about the job.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this like real moment of like, I mean, I love LA, even though I don't live in the city anymore.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love LA so much.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's such a beautiful, dynamic city, and I was just like, I don't want to leave here.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I stayed behind, and for many years I didn't work in book publishing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: I had to sacrifice that dream, which I think, like a lot of people, when you sacrifice a dream, I just had to build it myself then, which is what we've done.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and and also we could stay here in beautiful, sunny California.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that you get the best of both worlds.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many people who say they want to go work in publishing, but they don't want to make that move to NYC for various reasons.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's amazing to see you kind of building this dream for yourself, especially what adaptations, which leads my next question to you, Kristen.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I hear that you are, or I'm sorry, joy an adaptation expert, and you worked on so many projects like 13 Reasons Why, which I remember watching in high school and it was such a big part of my adolescence.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was wondering, working with the traditional model, what did you find the biggest opportunities and challenges to be?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, meaning the traditional model of adapting books to screen.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, you know, it really, it really depends on the material.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: But for instance, with 13 Reasons Why the Whole Book Took Place in One Night, right?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So what Yorkie and Brian Yorkie, the creator and um and our team really had to figure out was how do we flesh out this story into a several season television series?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and in doing so, you really have to kind of dig into the characters who in the book were more archetypes, you know, like they were sort of who any of you could be in high school.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the reasons it was published in 40 countries and languages and was so beloved for so many years before we made the show was because there was someone for each kid to relate to.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we basically took those archetypes and subverted them and made them more modern and more fleshed out and um and just a lot more complicated.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, like Tony being gay, but not having him come out, or, you know, um, and so I think books are just such an incredible um gift and jumping off point for cinematic storytelling.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And some of them are too perfect in their original form to be adapted.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And some of them um we can make the wrong choices about how to adapt them.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh, but I think you have to really sit with the author and understand the essence of the book.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: What was the purpose?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: What was what did you write this for?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: What did you want to bring to the world?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as we are preserving that in the film and television adaptation, then I think whatever structure we end up imposing upon it is going to still sing.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's gonna, and you always want to please the fans of the book, but invite a new audience who would not have read the book to love it in the same way.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really interesting, everything that you said.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you're talking about this new model.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen all the news articles and press releases.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: From my understanding, this new model that you're both working on is working on the book in the earlier stages to get it more ready for adaptation.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, how does this differ from the traditional model and how much more collaborative is it?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I can say, I mean, having worked in book publishing for a really long time, um and with a lot of big houses and on books that ultimately, in many cases, were adapted.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I was part of the Dirt, the Motley Crew memoir.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And even with such a big project like that, there was no producer on board when that book was being written.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: There was no producer on board when that book was being edited.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So getting to have Joy's feedback in that process as we're crafting books, and then in the even in the editorial process.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: But Joy and I are working on a new project now where she's actually going to be seeing pages as they're like being, you know, we're kind of doing like a page one rewrite on this book.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And Joy gets to be part of like, what does the structure look like?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I think for some authors, obviously there's a lot of development that takes place afterwards, and I think 13 Reasons Why is such a great example of like how do you take one version of a story and then create, though it's the same story, a very different structure in order to make it work in TV and film.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also such a beautiful collaboration that takes place when we're already thinking about that while writing the book.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, though we're staying true to the story and true to the author's vision, because like Joy, I feel the same way as an editor, when I'm working with an author, I want that book to ultimately be what they really want to have to say in this world, you know?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, what is the promise that they're offering their readers through the story that they have to tell?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And ultimately, you want to see that reflected in whatever iteration takes place after the book.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, already beginning to think about like, hey, how does this become attractive to talent?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who are these characters?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, a lot of those pieces that every author struggles with, like getting that kind of collaborative support in the writing process is just amazing.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and does not happen.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's just not even a thing that exists in traditional publishing at any level.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that sounds so exciting, and I'm excited to see the books that come as a result of it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: From my understanding, you have your first project coming out in May, the revenge party.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what has that collaboration been like?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's really interesting because this one I came in on later, and the one that we're starting together, I'm coming, I, you know, I met with the author, and she had sort of rough drafted pages.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Kristen and I are gonna dig in from the beginning on something for the first time, which is really exciting.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the Revenge Party was almost was completely almost fully baked when um Kristen shared it with me.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I read it and I said, you know, this thing is given away a little early.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: This thing, you know, and I loved the book and I loved the characters, and Emily Paulson is just brilliant and has a fan base and um and has such a special point of view.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I have to think of this as I want to bring this to some of the people that I um worked with before who are brilliant, like show it to Carrie Washington, show it to Rebecca who's creating Little House on the Prairie, you know.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I read the book thinking about who those people are that would make this the best adaptation.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I sort of try to put myself in their shoes when I'm working with Kristen and say, Do you think we should push this a little later?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you think that if we like gave this character a little bit, like just tiny tweaks just to make that first uh read for anyone feel a little bit more undeniable, you know?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then we shape a pitch deck together of, you know, kind of how we want to reframe someone's read when they're reading it as a potential adaptation.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's you're you're in a different headspace when you're on the beach, you know, flipping pages and and diving into a summer read than when you're looking at it about, hmm, do I want to spend the next several years of my life turning this into the next big little lies?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to make sure that when we are presenting it to potential partners, buyers, actors, writers, that we have it in the most sort of polished and undeniable presentation for them to have them in the right headspace when they're when they're looking at it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I that was really interesting how you talked about mindset because I'm someone who reads about 40 to 50 books a year and sometimes it's on the beach and sometimes it's for work and all these other places.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on where I am and what my goal is, I do view the book differently.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I can see how that impacts the industry as well.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's amazing.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about Carrie Washington and all these household names.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that's really exciting for the authors as well.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're looking at these stories and all these narratives, what in particular makes a story adaptable to both of you?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll let Joy go first on that.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think she's the she's the queen of being that vision.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, it's character, character, character.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I can't speak to a filmmaker or an actress and say, I know you want to make this character come alive because, you know, it's depth of character, you know, like of course it's twists and turns and mystery and thriller, or it's laughs, and it's all those things, but those things don't land if the character is two-dimensional, or the character is a cliche, or the character is somebody you've seen a thousand times before.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also like my Achilles heel is that like I'm not an easy target.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't love every thriller mystery about a white lady getting murdered.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't, like, that is not my taste, you know?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's almost like that, it's it's almost a good thing that I have I have to be sold on some of the stuff that sells in giant bidding wars.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm trying to think about the audience who doesn't immediately go to, you know what I mean, like to that genre and say, ooh, how do we get the people that wouldn't initially love, you know, a thriller in a cool town?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know what I'm saying?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we how do we capture and and it's always character?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's can you see yourself in this person?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always look at every story as sort of a pastiche of class, you know, um age, you know, like what demos are we covering in something?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want everybody watching something to see a little bit of themselves, and so um it's like, you know, empathy, you know, it's like what makes you feel something?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if something doesn't make me cry or laugh or go in a really genuine way, I won't be able to help get it made.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And reading and media, whether it's TV or movies, it's escapism so much for people.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like if the characters, if they aren't real or have a point of humanity to them, it doesn't always resonate with people.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I know people really love mean characters, you know, like they really do love an evil, terrible person.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I personally don't, and I'd probably be a lot more successful if I liked that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do think that it's it's when those characters have motivations that are so clear, like succession's a perfect example of like, God, this is a terrible group of people, you know.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but Jesse's characterization of these people and the brilliant actors and directors that, you know, and brought that to life, um, they're so layered, they're so nuanced that you understand where their darkness and their misbehavior comes from.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from this generational, like crazy culture they live in, you know?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so when a book or a TV show just like makes it undeniable that they're showing you this world and the psychology and sociology of this world, that's what becomes addictive, you know?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And something I'm really curious about when you're reading these stories, are there any components you look for where you're like, oh, this story would be really good for TV versus this one would be really good for a movie or film?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because one example that comes to mind for me is people we met on vacation that came out on Netflix earlier this year from Emily Henry.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love the movie.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I read the book, but I know a lot of people thought it would have been better served as a television show just because of the back and forth timeline it showcases.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So is that something you both look out for when you're reading your books?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think we definitely do.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's I mean, I think it's obviously there's a structure question, but for us, it's also like what kind of book is this?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: What is its audience?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is it like we have a book that's coming out in September that's a beautiful book?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Joy and I were talking about it, it will likely be a director-driven, independent feature, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's it's very like high literary fiction, it's a more nuanced story.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, does it have the kind of driving plot that could give it three seasons?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is it something that actually feels like it could be this like really beautiful two-hour experience of a story that, you know, that, you know, has that really kind of literary creative aesthetic, you know, that I think is best fit sometimes for screen, also in terms of budget is a good fit for screen.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that um, you know, it's not just a question of genre, but tone that ends up coming into play and and who we think would be interested in being a part of it too, and what kind of goals they have in terms of what they want to make.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this next question is going to sound a little cliche, but I feel like we can't talk about adaptations without bringing up heated rivalry because it really took over the world.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even today, I saw that to show his creative creator Jacob Tierney is writing a book about it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think of the show's success?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And is there a formula that can be learned from it?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that what is so beautiful about heated rivalry, and I um gushed over uh Connor at a CAA party a few weeks ago.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think that what is so beautiful about heated rivalry is that there was an undeniable vision for this thing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was really courageous, you know, and it was low budget and everyone was an unknown.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could tell that, and the acting was really fantastic for a bunch of unknowns.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that Russian accent is crazy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't believe how, you know, I just I think that the formula, if you will, was that they kept it really low budget and they were really true to a vision that um spoke to people and gave them something that nobody else was courageous enough to give them.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think there's a lot of fantastic shows that get made that have big stars in them and break through because of that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the business is really um, since the contraction, since Peak TV is over and the streaming wars have are over and they're all eating each other, I think that the market needs more than ever the kind of authenticity that people are getting from their social media, like their parasocial relationships with social media influencers and stuff.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think people want a level of connection and truth that maybe the big glamorous kind of high-end Netflix show isn't all isn't going alone, can't deliver.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people saw themselves in heated rivalry.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people have had just been star crossed lovers, have been, you know, had a crush where they, you know, it it didn't, it didn't have to be gay or straight.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the fact that this was a gorgeous gay romance was so culture-changing and beautiful and just not, you know, um, but I think forbidden love has always been since Romeo and Juliet, something that people relate to and love and they love the yearning.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think what Jacob did in sort of sucking people in with the salaciousness to get you to episode five and six that are such beautifully crafted um love story character studies, you know, was just not something I've seen before.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it was really when when something is something you haven't seen before, I mean, adolescence that Plan B made last year, you know, is also brilliant.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think when you can make something that no one's seen before, I think people like really stand up and cheer for it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I loved how you talked about its authenticity.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you that episodes five and six were so, so beautiful.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: I really loved episodes three, two of Scott and Kip.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: That was such a great part for me.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I know they have their own book as well.
• 20:02
  unknown: Exactly.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: I always said the minute I was the minute we met Skip's dad as a character, I was like, oh, we are watching something different here.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: I am very much, I it's my first fandom.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been a fan.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: I always say, like, I didn't even make sourdough during the pandemic.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Not good at joining cultural trends.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm always like, what are people doing?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but somehow I ended up in the heat of heated rivalry fandom.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I say, like, Connor and Hudson are far too young for me, but I totally have a crush on Jacob tyranny because I think it's like a writer and a creative, like, what was so special about that show is like the passion behind it.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you can just see when somebody puts so much heart into making something, and I felt the same way actually about 13 Reasons Why.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's funny.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think like you can just tell when the people involved are showing up every day with that, like, we are doing something special here, and everybody like you can almost feel the passion from behind the set on screen.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you just saw that you saw that it's like these are creators and creatives who are all coming together and knowing they are doing something really unique and and that it's going to stand out.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: And though they didn't obviously expect this level of success, like that energy is just in the work and it's in the DNA.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that as creatives, it is that reminder of like do the thing you're passionate about because that's what people are gonna feel, you know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mean I absolutely agree with like Forbidden Love, you know, but the way that that was portrayed and the and just the zing we all got off of it, it wasn't about the eroticism, but I think it was about like Eros, that like real creative space, that like that's how we connect, you know, when we're writing and we're telling stories.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a big adaptation.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to see what they do in season two.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Something that I've seen in book talk and online community.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: A lot is that a lot of people are actually getting fatigued from the idea of their favorite books being adapted.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, I don't want to see this book being adapted, keep the magic to the books.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Wendy City series from Liz Tom Forti was announced as an adaptation a few weeks ago.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember seeing a lot of backlash towards it.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I was wondering, in your space, do you ever get worried about adaptation fatigue, or does this new model kind of put those uh those fears aside?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that like what I'm still too old to totally crack is how much the chatter and the negativity online matters and how much it actually helps.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I actually we just dropped the trailer for Little House on the Prairie.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's one of the most famous book series in American literary history, and we're only being compared to the original series, you know, like it's just people are like, bring Michael Landon back.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And like I sobbed, I sobbed the day that Michael Landon died.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I would bring Michael Landon back if I could, but we are doing the books written by Laura Ingalls that were based on her actual life in the 1800s in America.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love book talk because it helps me with what I also love to do, you know, is look at older material and see how we can bring it into the zeitgeist and preserve some of these, you know, some of the literary canon.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing Beljar, I'm doing Little House on the Prairie.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when I can go to book talk and see that like 17-year-olds are still talking about Sylvia Plath and you know, women of all ages are still talking about Little House on the Prairie and love it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we do put that group of people together that are so passionate, like Kristen is saying that you can just see the love and the you could see the commitment in everybody on Heated Rivalry.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just know that the actress who plays Rose is like loving that she has this ability to give him the like the peace about being gay.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like you just you see it in the in the performances.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when we put when I put a crew together and when I pick the people to adapt these projects and to, you know, be the village, you know, when I when I'm part of that, the first thing I make sure of is that they are obsessive about this material.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the people on book talk really help us see like who is obsessive about what, you know, and so I um and if some of them don't want us to adapt it, I love their passion for their favorite book.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then they also just don't have to turn on the TV, and that's a choice too, which is great.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I know we're starting to run low on time.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have two questions left, maybe three, if we can squeeze it in.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you were just talking about creating this village and book talk, which kind of leads me to another question about another adaptation is there's off campus coming out from Amazon next month.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I that was another series I read.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I personally think the actors are quite talented, but I know a lot of people were upset with the casting because it did not impact, it did not match up with their perceived image or their fan casting, which I think is a very toxic part of book talk.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I was wondering now, when you're making these books, do you the idea of people's potential perceived image or stars they already want to see in these books impact who you pull together or when you're writing the piece or editing it?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, absolutely when it comes to casting, you know, it's like sometimes the best actress and the only one who's available just does not have blonde hair and blue eyes, and everybody's gonna be mad that you got a brown-haired, brown-eyed person to play an iconic character.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to make decisions that are based on, I mean, we have to in Little House, we have to age the girls up.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're five and six when this part of their lives happened.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can't get a show made with a five and six year old at the center.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's no, you only would get three or four hours in a day with them because of the unions.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: You just can't.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So people online just don't understand what it takes to put together a TV show and raise the millions of dollars that you need to make a TV show or make a movie.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we always want to be as true as possible to um the fans and to the original vision, um, which is why oftentimes we really keep, if they are alive, unlike Laura Engels, but we keep the authors or the families of the authors involved in the creative at Joy Coalition and Rise because we want to make sure that we are, you know, again holding on to that essence of what the author really wanted.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I always say the spirit of the actor is more important than the looks.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that your perspective kind of brings that to light.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we're in April right now, but I was wondering what can you tease for the rest of 2026 for Rise Literary?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we've got we've got a lot of books coming this year and exciting ones too that I know Joy and I are already talking about.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: We have some books that are nonfiction that, you know, some, and obviously there's some books that, you know, don't make sense for adaptation, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've got a great book coming out in July called Blow Up Your Life: The Wild Art of Wanting More, which I mean, maybe it can be adapted.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's about a woman who, you know, divorces her husband and goes on like a wild sexual pleasure journey of like rediscovery.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's not to say, I mean, many things can be, but we also have other books that are coming in the fall that um that obviously have more of an adaptation lens or potential.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have a fantastic literary novel that's coming out in September called Restoration by Carol Davis.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I just got in the pages today.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Dave Eggers has already agreed to give a blurb for it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: It is a gorgeous novel set in the 1980s.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of has this like really unique period piece, and it toggles between San Francisco and rural England.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it just that's the one that has this real like tone to it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can already feel it.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can already feel like a great 1984 day, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's got that.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we have a gorgeous memoir that's coming out in November called This Walk Will Change You by an author, Lauren Duke, which is the story.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: So excited for this story.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which is the story of a woman who went on the Camino in Spain and took her entire, frankly, insane family.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think they're pretty fine to be labeled that because they are.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, her mother was drinking vodka out of a water bottle on the entire track.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, her sister was just newly through a divorce.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Her brother was sort of like the stud of the group who like works as a boat captain, is trying to find himself.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and there are all these sort of adventures on this path.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: But as Lauren realized, Lauren actually has like a scientific background in in movement and in long-distance walking.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and what she said is through long-distance walking, she began to realize that we can't change the people, but we can change the pattern.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really about how we can heal as families, and um, and also it's very funny, and there's like crazy, you know, they end up getting into like a salami fight at one point, like, you know, like throw salamis at each other from across a restaurant.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it has like all the makings of like great TV or film, but also has this really important story about how it's really easy sometimes to run from our families, especially when there's been a lot of trauma.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: But there's actually something so important about staying and figuring out how to heal, even when it's with other, even when it's with unhealed people.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um, it's a gorgeous book.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're super excited about it, and uh, and we're hoping for it to be our first uh New York Times bestseller.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not afraid to say that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is our goal on that book because it's got such good, such uh the authors really has a huge community, and it's just such a beautiful book.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So well, my fingers are crossed for you.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Those all sound so great.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna add them all to my TBR.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to follow everything that Rise does for the rest of the year.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so insightful and so fun for me.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly, truly appreciate it.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for having us, Brianna.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're so lovely.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I am so jealous that you can read 50 books.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm so jealous that you get to talk to everybody about heated rivalry on the podcast.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I mean, I'll just show up for that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a common topic.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: You are welcome anytime to come, especially if I have a hockey romance podcast.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will, I will email you.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to keep up with Rise Literary.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: All their projects sound so, so exciting.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like my TBR grew so much just from that one conversation.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't believe that my next episode is my 10th episode.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: It truly means a lot to me that I've been able to continue to grow and expand over the last couple of months.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And with butterflies, whether you like, subscribe, or just casually watch the episode, it truly does mean the world to me.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you all have a great week, and I'll see you next time.