Latest / Chasing Tone - Guitar Podcast About Gear, Effects, Amps and Tone / 629 - Oh, it's just another Tube Screamer, and do vintage parts make a difference or do we just want to believe in magic?

Transcript

629 - Oh, it's just another Tube Screamer, and do vintage parts make a difference or do we just want to believe in magic? · Chasing Tone - Guitar Podcast About Gear, Effects, Amps and Tone

0:06
Blake: Welcome back to KWTSA the late on the front coming out of Martinsville, Indiana.
0:10
Blake: Yeah, it's looking like we're gonna have crunchy sound waves out there.
0:14
Blake: Oh yeah, watch it.
0:15
Blake: Oh no, we've got an overturned four by four on a actually like wait a minute, that's just a golf cart.
0:24
Richard: Never mind never mind.
0:25
Richard: And there appears to be a man crawling out of that golf cart with BW written on his cap.
0:33
Brian: Um a Bud Light in his left hand.
0:36
Brian: Weird.
0:36
Richard: With lamb.
0:37
Richard: Bri, I am wishing you a most luciferous afternoon today, uh which is a word you have just invented.
0:44
Brian: Luciferosity is uh a great, great place to be, you know.
0:47
Brian: It is.
0:48
Richard: Uh isn't an album by the red hot chili peppers, I think it might be.
0:54
Brian: Uh I mean, wait, I have to ask a question.
0:57
Brian: Does everyone not just make up words while they're talking just so they sound smart?
1:00
Brian: Is it just me?
1:01
Richard: I I've had this conversation with other people.
1:03
Richard: This is just condoliciousness.
1:06
Richard: Whoa then.
1:07
Richard: Yeah.
1:08
Richard: Uh that's uh that's a very, very dangerous path.
1:12
Richard: I've had this conversation before.
1:14
Richard: The point of words that are common and that we can understand each other when we speak.
1:18
Richard: If you start making them up, then no one can understand what you're saying.
1:22
Richard: And that is where the whole damn system breaks down, Bri.
1:26
Blake: You know, that must be what's going on with my email chain with this retailer.
1:30
Richard: Okay.
1:30
Richard: But you bring up a good point, Bri, because you mentioned the 808 in your opening intro.
1:36
Richard: I was looking at the schematic for the 808 tube screamer versus the boss SD1 the other day.
1:44
Richard: Oh wow.
1:45
Richard: There's a lot of similarities there, Bri.
1:48
Brian: Oh, yeah.
1:48
Brian: Same exact circuit, different part values.
1:51
Brian: That that is the magic of how part values in the same circuit can sound trap tra tragically, radically, radically different.
1:59
Richard: And of course, the original SD1 is a two-knob um no, OD1.
2:04
Richard: OD1, sorry, is a two-knob uh overdrive.
2:09
Richard: Overdrive.
2:10
Richard: That's why am I struggling with you you've cast your lucidity on me.
2:16
Brian: You're feeling luciferous as well, aren't you?
2:18
Richard: I am indeed in my 50s.
2:20
Richard: But like I there's some differences in the toe, but essentially, same engine driving both of those.
2:27
Richard: One has asymmetric clipping and one has um symmetrical.
2:31
Richard: Symmetrical.
2:32
Richard: Yeah.
2:33
Brian: And they're just EQ differently.
2:34
Richard: And and I was gonna say the EQ is different, but basically, same op amp, same sort of transistor stages almost.
2:42
Brian: So yeah, same skeleton completely.
2:44
Richard: Yeah, yeah.
2:45
Brian: And and that same as like a thousand other pedals.
2:48
Brian: I mean, it's crazy, but uh I'm hesitant to even name all them because I don't know if I could off the top of my head.
2:54
Richard: Uh half of Love Pedal Line has we've got an hour, off you go.
2:58
Richard: Yeah.
2:59
Brian: Like you can just make you can take any sort of skeleton like that, and everyone's so quick to say, oh, it's just another tube screamer.
3:06
Brian: But without understanding the magic of what filtering does to a signal, you can make it a fuzz, you can make it a distortion, you can make it everything, anything in the dirt realm.
3:17
Brian: You can make it a compressor if you wanted to.
3:20
Blake: I have taken DOD 250 clones and original ones that side by side and and just A-B'd them because that's what I do with my time.
3:29
Blake: Okay?
3:29
Blake: Leave me alone.
3:30
unknown: Right?
3:31
Blake: Nothing wrong with that.
3:31
Blake: There's a saying I know what that circuit is, it's almost nothing.
3:35
Blake: It's almost a data sheet.
3:36
Blake: There's not much there.
3:37
Blake: Yeah.
3:37
Blake: And when there's little differences in the parts, I maybe, maybe Brian, you can speak to this.
3:42
Blake: On a simpler circuit, does the the value matter even more on things?
3:47
Brian: No, it's not so much like a simpler circuit.
3:50
Brian: Like, for example, um, let's take a transistor boost.
3:53
Brian: You can get a full full freak frequency boost or turn it into like a a um kind of a top boost type of uh thing, you know, like a Brian May style boost.
4:04
Brian: Right.
4:04
Brian: Which are two completely different sounds, same skeleton, same basic transistor boost.
4:09
Brian: Yeah.
4:09
Blake: But it's it's weird because you have pedals that you know are the same same more or less schematic, right next to each other, and it's like, yeah, but they're clearly not the same.
4:18
Richard: Right.
4:18
Richard: But I I think there is kind of a little bit of logic to what you said there, Blake.
4:22
Richard: I think the less components they are, the more you alter one, the more radical the change will seem because it's a bigger constituent part of that overall circuit, right?
4:35
Brian: Maybe.
4:35
Brian: I mean, there's also a different view to look at it though.
4:39
Brian: Like, for example, let's say you have five different gain stages, and let's say you're doing, you know, cutting the base dramatically on one, raising the mids on another, lowering the highs on another, and then raising the highs at a different frequency on a yet another stage.
4:53
Brian: Even though they're basic stages, I mean, you can turn it ra into something that is completely, completely different in every way, in the way it feels, the way it sounds, the way it responds, all that stuff is due to what you're doing in between each stage.
5:09
Brian: So it's not just it's not just a schematic.
5:11
Richard: Sure.
5:12
Richard: And I'm looking at the Dodd uh 250 schematic right now.
5:17
Richard: And it's kind of similar to a tube screamer schematic.
5:21
Richard: It seems to be missing the kind of input um transistor stage.
5:25
Brian: So the OD250 is actually really similar to the MXR distortion plus.
5:30
Brian: But it looks similar to the tube screamer because they're both op amp based.
5:35
Brian: They're both non-inverting op amps.
5:37
Richard: Yeah.
5:38
Brian: Um with the OD250, it's much more simple where you just have that simple gain stage, uh, not even a tone control, just a little, it's like a set tone control, like a high like a low pass filter.
5:48
Brian: Yeah, some clipping and a volume control.
5:50
Brian: There's not much to it.
5:51
Brian: Exactly that.
5:52
Brian: And you could probably build one in like 10 minutes.
5:54
Brian: I'm gonna build one after this.
5:58
Richard: Although it's using an LM741 op amp, so I'm not sure how I I've probably not got one of those in my kit box.
6:05
Brian: 741?
6:06
Brian: Um, it's just a it's just a uh single op amp that takes it's an older one and it kind of takes off some highs.
6:15
Richard: So you could simulate that with uh like a filter stage before uh like 071?
6:21
Brian: You can, but it kind of responds a little differently.
6:23
Brian: You know how the rat has like a specific op amp, the LM308?
6:27
Brian: It's the same sort of thing where that op amp has kind of a sound due to its inefficiencies, yeah, especially when using it when driving it like a distortion.
6:36
Brian: And the 741 is kind of the same way.
6:39
Brian: It kind of, even though it is technically taken off highs, when you push it in distortion, it kind of goes uh and that's kind of a cool sound.
6:47
Brian: So you can use a different op amp, but it might sound a little bit differently.
6:51
Richard: I would pay for a guitar pedal that made exactly the sound you just made.
6:54
Richard: Yeah.
6:55
Blake: I mean, I listen to a lot of bands that sound like that.
6:58
Richard: Yeah, it's very on point.
7:00
Richard: Um I don't know if there's something in the water.
7:06
Richard: Uh there's certainly something in your lettuce.
7:08
Richard: We mentioned that before.
7:09
Richard: Avoid lettuce.
7:10
Richard: But uh guys, we're like nearly 10 minutes in, and all we've done is talk about pedals and pedal schematics.
7:16
Richard: Is everyone is everyone feeling okay today?
7:19
Brian: Are we on the right podcast?
7:20
Brian: Wait a minute.
7:20
Richard: Yeah, shut on.
7:21
Richard: Uh UFOs, British idiots.
7:24
Brian: There we go.
7:25
Brian: Sports ball, sports ball, movies.
7:27
Brian: That's over now.
7:28
Richard: That's all over now.
7:30
Richard: It's it's back to the business of making music.
7:32
Richard: No, I'm I'm kind of getting getting a bit more DOY focused again, bro, because I've got to think of uh pedal number two for Oliver FX, which I'm I'm working on, and I've been playing around with various schematics.
7:46
Brian: How much fun is that though?
7:47
Brian: Like, how much fun is it to just look at schematics and then mess with the circuits and see how incredibly different you can change it?
7:53
Richard: Like that is that is more fun than anything else you can do with with penny components at all ever.
8:01
Richard: Like you can't do anything with pennies these days, but you can make an almost infinite array of different sounding pedals just by plugging in different parts and seeing what happens.
8:13
Brian: Uh and uh and it's crazy.
8:15
Brian: Like once you start once you learn how to breadboard, I still do this where I wonder how like a new pedal sounds, and so like if if has someone like uh reverse engineered this so I can look at the schematic.
8:26
Brian: And if they have, it's always uh quicker and cheaper for me to just breadboard it to see what it sounds like.
8:32
Richard: Yeah, you know?
8:36
Richard: I I I mean again, like once you get into really complex pedals with you know three three band EQs and stuff like that, then it's a little a little less easy to knock something out.
8:46
Richard: But when you're looking at these kind of simpler pedals, you can you can get a lot of fun.
8:50
Richard: There's a lot of fun to be had with a single knob.
8:53
Richard: That's what I've discovered.
8:54
Richard: Yeah, oh yeah.
8:55
Richard: I'm not sure that was a well-placed oh yeah or not.
9:00
Richard: Uh but okay, sure, we'll go for it.
9:03
Richard: Um, but again, it it it comes down to this whole vintage components versus modern components argument.
9:11
Richard: Because I I think I'll die on this hill.
9:14
Richard: I don't think there's any difference between any type of component if the input value and the output value are as per spec.
9:24
Richard: Like if if a resistor is resisting at a certain level, it doesn't matter when it was made.
9:30
Richard: That's just aesthetic, surely.
9:33
Brian: You know, everyone likes to believe in magic.
9:35
Brian: It's like anything else, you know, and so you get a lot of people like, oh well, these are vintage, you know, resistors from 1980.
9:43
Brian: You know, like, okay, great.
9:44
Brian: So they're out of spec and they're noisy.
9:45
Brian: Okay.
9:46
Brian: Right.
9:47
Richard: Right.
9:47
Richard: And well, I I think that when I see people using vintage capacitors, I'm like, maybe they ain't gonna last as long.
9:54
Richard: Maybe the reason they sound good is because they're not working properly.
9:57
Brian: And I mean, there is some, especially when you get higher voltages like amps.
10:01
Brian: I I think that stuff plays a much bigger part once you start getting into higher voltages.
10:05
Brian: Yeah, okay.
10:06
Brian: You know, because you're running, you know, several hundred volts into a lot of these um in a lot inside of a lot of tube amps.
10:13
Brian: So you know, the pedal is you it's running off nine volts, but it's really more like four and a half.
10:17
Brian: Yeah.
10:18
Brian: It kind of centers around four and a half volts.
10:19
Brian: So um it's just not a whole lot to be gained with with the overthinking part types.
10:26
Brian: Now there with that said, there are certain parts like some capacitors will tend to be more microphonic.
10:32
Brian: You have to know like that if you're building a thousand pedals.
10:36
Richard: Um thanks for letting me know before I started to build a thousand pedals bright, because you know, may maybe mine are microphonic.
10:44
Richard: Maybe they're not.
10:45
Richard: No, they're not.
10:46
Brian: I mean ask them.
10:48
Richard: Well, so here's my are you microphonic?
10:52
Richard: Here's my proposal though.
10:54
Richard: Surely it's better to have a pedal made out of really high quality components that are modern and meet a spec than it is to have one made out of average quality and probably lower quality vintage components.
11:09
Richard: I mean, I think that's probably one of those it depends things, right?
11:13
Brian: It's an it depends thing.
11:14
Richard: No, I guess I demand absolutes.
11:16
Brian: I will not move from this chair until I go in absolutes.
11:19
Brian: The absolute answer is sometimes.
11:22
Blake: Okay.
11:22
Blake: Thank you, Brian.
11:24
Blake: I am enlightened.
11:25
Blake: I mean, that's that's that's the classic Big Muff story, right?
11:27
Blake: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of vintage Big Muffs out there, and some of them don't sound very good.
11:33
Blake: Some of them sound amazing, and it's just like, yeah, I got the right um the right components in this one, and they held tolerance properly, and that's why.
11:42
Blake: Or they drifted to just the right spot.
11:44
Brian: I always my view was it that the taller there's there was such a wide range of tolerances that it just became a happy mistake.
11:52
Brian: You're just like, yeah, this one sounds great.
11:54
Richard: Yes, I think you're right.
11:56
Richard: I mean, I I maintain that so I had a vintage arbiter, I think it was a 69 fuzz face, which I sold for a ridiculously low sum of money 20 years ago.
12:05
Brian: You traded for a pack of smokes, didn't you?
12:07
Richard: Literally, it was like I'm just selling this so I can move house and I need more room for my lovely pod XT.
12:14
Richard: Um it's not even a joke, but I maintained that there was a fault with it because it just gave like it was the lightest gain stage ever.
12:25
Richard: I mean, it's had it okay if you put it into a dirty amp.
12:28
Richard: So it had a purpose, but it doesn't do what a fuzz face should do, which is give me a square, fuzzy wave.
12:35
Richard: So I think there was something seriously wrong with my fuzz face.
12:38
Richard: Um but also it could have been my ears.
12:42
Blake: I mean, yeah, that's the thing too.
12:44
Blake: I sometimes wonder there's things I'm like, oh that wasn't really for me.
12:47
Blake: And I'll go back and play it.
12:48
Blake: I'm like, well, I really like it now.
12:49
Blake: What changed?
12:50
Blake: Well, it wasn't the pedal.
12:52
Blake: It's pretty germanium?
12:54
Brian: If it's germanium, that's always explainable by like temperature and humidity.
12:58
Richard: Might have been though, Brian, you know, you never know.
13:00
Richard: It could have been.
13:01
Brian: It could have been.
13:01
Brian: Yeah.
13:02
Brian: I mean, but I also like on the fuzz face style circuits, or whether it's tone benders or whatever, they're the actual qualities of each transistor is really important to make it sound like quote unquote great.
13:16
Richard: Yep.
13:16
Brian: Um so it'll work with you know all different types of transistors, but it's like if you really want it to sound great, then you need to look for transistors with these qualities, and you need to use these resistor values, and you need to hold your head cocked to the right just a little bit.
13:29
Brian: And then it should be fine.
13:31
Brian: I presume.
13:32
Brian: But that's hard to duplicate when you that's very hard to duplicate making 5,000 of those.
13:36
Brian: Yes.
13:37
Brian: Even making 100.
13:38
Brian: Yeah.
13:39
Brian: I mean, that's why we don't do germanium fuzz faces.
13:41
Brian: It's just damn near impossible to replicate.
13:43
Brian: Right.
13:43
Richard: That's why we don't do them yet.
13:45
Brian: It could be a special release.
13:46
Richard: I mean, not until my new Germanium drive.
13:48
Richard: Who knows what it's gonna sound like?
13:50
Brian: Once my new germanium factor germanium transistor factory comes online.
13:55
Brian: I mean, that'd be a whole different ballgame.
13:56
Richard: Hey, that's a great investment.
13:58
Brian: Yes.
13:58
Richard: How's that going, Bri?
13:59
Richard: Is that is that is that up?
14:01
Richard: Have you have you got your way around the Venezuelan slave labor laws for children?
14:05
Richard: And is that okay?
14:06
Richard: Are all the children working hard?
14:08
Brian: No, we're just gonna make our own transistors here in my garage.
14:11
Brian: Yeah.
14:11
Richard: Okay, yeah.
14:12
Brian: Yeah, using his children.
14:13
Brian: Are you still using children for slave labor again?
14:16
Brian: I mean, that was always the plan.
14:17
Brian: I mean, that's what I've got grandkids now, so that's more help, you know?
14:21
Blake: Yeah, grandchildren labor.
14:22
Blake: You like to children labor.
14:24
Blake: Employees three and four.
14:28
Brian: Our newest staff members, yeah, exactly.
14:30
Richard: Okay.
14:31
Richard: That's right.
14:31
Richard: I I'm I'm not gonna say too much.
14:33
Richard: Brian is a model grandparent.
14:35
Richard: That's all I'm gonna say.
14:36
Richard: Well, that's because I take care of myself.
14:38
Richard: I try to eat right.
14:40
Brian: Oh, you don't mean I look like a model.
14:41
Brian: Oh, I'm sorry.
14:42
Richard: Well, you do look like a model, Bri, but it's a model of Cyclops from a Ray Harryhausen film.
14:49
Richard: Oh no, wait, that's Blake.
14:50
Richard: Hold on, I got that wrong.
14:52
Richard: No, you are an excellent grandparent.
14:55
Richard: Uh and I like to learn from you.
14:58
Richard: Uh and uh Blake, you're an excellent grandparent to be.
15:01
Richard: It's just still about 15 years away, I hope.
15:04
Richard: I hope it's at least 15 years away.
15:06
Richard: Uh, speaking of 15 years, it was your birthday over the past weekend.
15:12
Richard: Or was it Monday?
15:13
Richard: No.
15:13
Richard: It was Monday, your birthday.
15:14
Richard: Yesterday, right?
15:15
Richard: Yesterday, yes.
15:16
Brian: I missed your birthday.
15:17
Brian: Well, oh my gosh, you're kidding me.
15:20
Brian: Well, no, because you're celebrating it now.
15:23
Brian: Yes.
15:23
Brian: No, happy birthday to you.
15:27
Brian: Happy birthday to you.
15:30
Brian: I didn't hear this.
15:31
Brian: Marilyn Monroe.
15:32
Brian: Did you come on this podcast?
15:34
Brian: I feel like it's not having the same effect.
15:39
Richard: No, it's actually having the opposite effect, I think.
15:42
Richard: Uh I think I now wish to become a monk and renounce all of my sexual desires forever.
15:49
Richard: Because Brian has just flipped a switch inside me.
15:53
Richard: No.
15:57
Brian: And that's when my libido went out the door.
15:59
Brian: That's right.
16:00
Richard: Uh no.
16:01
Richard: Happy birthday.
16:02
Richard: Uh how old is one this year?
16:04
Richard: Um, 38.
16:05
Richard: Correct.
16:06
Richard: 38.
16:07
Richard: Wow.
16:07
Brian: Damn, dude.
16:08
Brian: When we start, you must have been like 22 when we started doing this book.
16:12
Richard: I was 27.
16:13
Richard: Wow.
16:14
Richard: That's like 22, though, Bri to us, to be fair.
16:17
Brian: I have kids that are older than you.
16:18
Brian: That's crazy.
16:19
Brian: You have a 38-year-old kid.
16:22
Brian: Oh, sorry.
16:22
Brian: Sorry, kids that are older than you at that time.
16:25
Richard: I was gonna say it, but you would have been 13.
16:28
Brian: So uh I was a little bit older than I look when I was your age.
16:32
Brian: Oh, funny story.
16:34
Blake: I was 26 when I started doing online guitar stuff, and like I think it was 27 by the time we met and started doing this.
16:42
Blake: So that's been a while.
16:44
Blake: Yeah.
16:45
Brian: Well, let me tell you where that heads.
16:46
Brian: So, my one of my grandsons is with us this week, and uh, one of my other grandsons, and uh today I taught him how to bend over, hold his back, and say, Oh my god, Brasitis.
16:58
Brian: My job has been finished this week for being a grandfather.
17:03
Blake: That's that's that's a good move.
17:04
Blake: I like it.
17:05
Blake: I have a I have a funny birthday story that I'm probably gonna tell on a couple podcasts, but I think you guys will will appreciate this birthday story.
17:12
Richard: We're the best podcast that you're involved with, so sure.
17:14
Blake: Yeah, absolutely.
17:15
Blake: So, as you know, uh I talk about Scott all the time because I talk to Scott all the time.
17:20
Blake: I was on the phone with Scott.
17:21
Brian: Scott is Stringjoy, for those who wonder who he's talking about.
17:24
Blake: And uh, I'm on the phone with him leaving the house, and everybody else had already left the house.
17:28
Blake: And I opened the door and I'm like, oh, there's a package here I wasn't expecting.
17:32
Blake: What do we got?
17:32
Blake: And I pick it up, I'm like, oh, my my wife has ordered me a box from Katz Deli in New York City.
17:40
Blake: This is so great.
17:41
Blake: I got it this huge box of pastrami.
17:44
Blake: Nothing makes me happier than a box of smoked meat.
17:47
Blake: Um, and so I'm so stoked because Cats is a legendary restaurant.
17:50
Blake: For those that don't know, it's been in a lot of movies, um, and it's got very, very amazing meat.
17:56
Blake: And Scott's like, hey, I hey, I don't mean to spoiler this, but uh that's for me.
18:00
Blake: And I was like, Oh, thanks, buddy.
18:02
Blake: So that's great.
18:03
Blake: And so I take a picture of it and send it to my wife.
18:05
Blake: I'm like, oh yeah, look, look what I got.
18:07
Blake: And since I was on the phone, I didn't really say anything.
18:10
Blake: Um, and she responds with hey, that wasn't supposed to be here until next week.
18:16
Blake: So the that means I got two boxes of Casnelli.
18:22
Blake: So I am living high on the pastrami.
18:26
Blake: It is a good month for Blake.
18:28
Blake: It's a good month.
18:29
Blake: I was really, really excited.
18:31
Blake: I was like, yes, the two people who know me the best, and then you're probably the two that know me the next best, uh, sent me boxes of meat.
18:39
Blake: So I'd like when when are your boxes arriving?
18:42
Richard: Well, I'm just hold on, hold on a minute.
18:43
Richard: Let me just uh go to my Amazon order.
18:45
Richard: I just need to cancel the plant-based burger.
18:48
Richard: Right.
18:48
Brian: I was sending you a box of broccoli.
18:51
Blake: I probably should have that to counteract.
18:53
Richard: Um again, with the current uh food issues uh out of your country, broccoli is off the menu from now on.
19:00
Brian: Well, you steam that, so you're probably fine.
19:02
Richard: Yeah, it's probably all right.
19:03
Richard: Yeah, we'll steam that.
19:04
Richard: Yeah.
19:05
Richard: I very nearly bought myself the Scottish box for my birthday, which consists of like deep fried black pudding, square sausage, sliced haggis.
19:15
Richard: But I was like, I'm just gonna eat it all myself.
19:17
Richard: That's not good.
19:18
Richard: That's how I didn't do it.
19:19
Richard: But uh happy birthday.
19:21
Richard: And did you get yourself any gifts?
19:23
Richard: Uh I had a box of meat.
19:25
Richard: No, did you buy a guitar?
19:26
Richard: Is what I'm really asking you.
19:28
Blake: Or an amp or a pedal.
19:30
Blake: I did not.
19:31
Blake: I did not get any of those things, but that's okay, because I I'm I'm I'm not exactly you know, I'm not exactly hurting in the world.
19:40
Blake: You're not exactly short.
19:41
Blake: Not exactly sure we're at the end.
19:42
Blake: You got the Luciferous bug going.
19:45
Brian: You're getting a little bit lucur Luciferous as well.
19:48
Blake: Listen, guys, is I'm it was my birthday yesterday, and I'm still celebrating, if you can't tell.
19:53
Blake: Did you go out and eat?
19:55
Blake: Yes.
19:55
Blake: We went to Monty's Red Sauce, which is a great Italian American joint here, and they have an incredible uh cheese ravioli in vodka sauce.
20:07
Blake: Yeah.
20:07
Blake: I add Italian sausage to that, and then they put even more cheese over the top and bake the whole thing, and it is glorious.
20:16
Brian: You know what?
20:16
Brian: I can totally understand because last night I had a delicacy as well.
20:20
Brian: Similar to that, actually, Blake.
20:21
Brian: You'd appreciate it.
20:22
Brian: Yeah.
20:22
Brian: It was called chipato.
20:23
Brian: Chipato?
20:24
Brian: Yeah.
20:25
Brian: Is that sort of a German restaurant?
20:28
Brian: Uh it was it's actually kind of semi-Mexican a little bit.
20:32
Brian: Like the chicken bowls and like American, a Mexican fusion.
20:36
Brian: Sort of, yeah, but kind of like a fast food thing.
20:38
Brian: Really good.
20:38
Brian: Chipotle.
20:39
Brian: Highly.
20:41
Richard: Yes.
20:41
Richard: Okay.
20:41
Richard: Yeah.
20:42
Richard: I'll have that.
20:43
Richard: Uh next time I'm at one of your olive gardens, I guess.
20:47
Richard: Ah, the the olive garden.
20:51
Brian: Olive garden.
20:52
Richard: Their bread's good though.
20:53
Richard: I'm not gonna lie.
20:54
Richard: Their food is average, but their bread is really good.
20:56
Richard: Breadsticks are nice.
20:58
Blake: Yes.
20:58
Blake: Yeah.
20:58
Blake: You never I never met anybody who has a problem with an olive garden breadstick.
21:02
Brian: That's true.
21:03
Brian: You know, if they do, that says a lot more about them than anything else.
21:07
Richard: I think I agree.
21:08
Richard: I agree.
21:09
Richard: Did I tell you they're opening a uh a Popeyes?
21:12
Richard: I think I did.
21:13
Richard: You did tell us that.
21:14
Richard: Yeah.
21:14
Richard: Yeah.
21:15
Richard: I mean, I'm still excited about it.
21:17
Brian: Let's just let's just change the name of this from chasing tone to chasing food.
21:20
Richard: Hey, Brian, we've had plenty of pedal talk already, and we're gonna have more.
21:25
Richard: So it's it's Blake's birthday.
21:27
Richard: We're celebrating.
21:27
Richard: Did you have any uh uh appetizers at the uh at Monty's Red Source?
21:32
Blake: Oh no, I went just straight for the the big bowl, and then I I I took a cannoli home, so I'm gonna be eating that today.
21:38
Blake: I've never eaten a cannoli.
21:40
Blake: Oh, I love a cannoli.
21:41
Brian: Yeah, they're not big in this country.
21:43
Brian: Oh wait, that's canary.
21:46
Brian: Never mind.
21:48
Richard: I've never eaten a canary either for full disclosure reasons.
21:51
Richard: Uh I can't imagine they would taste very good.
21:54
Richard: Um, but yeah.
21:55
Richard: Not a lot of meat on a canary.
21:57
Richard: Not a lot of meat on a canary, but suddenly I have the ability.
21:59
Richard: To detect gas in a coal mine.
22:02
Richard: So that's good news.
22:03
Richard: So there's quite a lot of stuff going on in the music world.
22:08
Richard: Yeah, there is a lot.
22:09
Richard: Firstly, I feel duty bound to just return to the D uh oh, how was it that Steve?
22:16
Brian: DOD OD215?
22:18
Richard: No, the Dario.
22:21
Richard: Diodario.
22:22
Richard: Yeah, the D the Diadario AI um thing.
22:26
Richard: So yes.
22:27
Richard: Turns out it wasn't AI generated music, but they used some AI tools to compose the music.
22:36
Richard: I thought it was to mix it or master it.
22:38
Richard: Yes.
22:40
Richard: Maybe to master it, maybe to master some parts of it, maybe to help write some parts of it.
22:44
Brian: Because there's a lot of plugins now that just like you it basically does all the mixing and mastering for you now.
22:49
Brian: Yeah.
22:49
Brian: Which could explain a lot.
22:51
Brian: Like this is oh, nice and see why it sounds like AI now.
22:54
Brian: That makes sense.
22:55
Blake: A lot of people are blaming the fact that it drifts.
23:00
unknown: Yes.
23:01
Blake: They're saying that is an indicator that it's AI.
23:04
Blake: And I gotta tell you why that makes me sad.
23:06
Blake: Because now we're saying if your music isn't perfectly to a click, that's an indicator that it's AI.
23:14
Blake: And I'm like, wait a minute.
23:15
Richard: Which is insane, because they need to listen to the stuff I write.
23:19
Blake: Right.
23:19
Blake: Well, I'm like, what about Led Zeppelin?
23:24
Brian: It's not perfectly to a click.
23:25
Brian: And he banned before 1986, basically.
23:28
Blake: Literally that, right?
23:29
Blake: Exactly.
23:29
Blake: No, I don't like that.
23:32
Blake: No, I don't like I don't like that as uh the canary in the coal mine to use an earlier reference.
23:37
Blake: I don't think that's a very good canary.
23:39
Blake: I don't think it is.
23:41
Brian: I mean, I I see as a bigger problem, I talked about this a few weeks ago, which is like tones drifting or drum, like drum sounds drifting.
23:47
Brian: Like that kind of stuff drives me crazy about AI music among everything else.
23:52
Richard: But you start off with the sound of a beautiful Ludwig black beauty snare, and by the end of it, it's Lars already snare.
24:03
Blake: It is a weird thing that it does that, right?
24:05
Richard: Because you're like, well, you nailed it here, and now it's you must have seen those kind of like we gave this picture of the rock to Chat GPT and asked it to duplicate it 20 times, and by the end of it, it's derp rock.
24:18
Richard: It's it's just not quite right.
24:21
Richard: And I think that's happening a bit.
24:22
Richard: I'm doing the proc jump.
24:27
Richard: But I've got to say this, right?
24:29
Richard: If I create a loop and then I cut and paste that loop into my song, that's a perfect It doesn't matter what you did.
24:36
Richard: That's a rock reference, sorry.
24:38
Richard: Again with the non-English references, how am I supposed to keep up?
24:43
Richard: Um but if I take a loop and I paste it into a track, how is that any different than me getting AI to generate a loop and then me paste it into a track multiple times?
24:55
Blake: It's not.
24:56
Blake: Thank you for the silence.
24:57
Blake: Yeah.
24:58
Blake: I mean, I've figured it's so I think well I'm thinking about, and I don't think this is a perfect analogy, though some people try to make it.
25:06
Blake: Like, some people are like, oh, they said the same thing about drum machines, they said the same thing about sampling.
25:11
Blake: I'm like, uh, yes and no, there's still a lot of human involvement in those things.
25:17
Richard: But they did, they did literally say those things about drum machines and sampling.
25:21
Richard: Like in the 90s, when sampling really kind of took off, like everyone was like, this isn't real music, you're just taking someone else's music and you're absolutely just ripping off.
25:34
Richard: And a really good example, I don't think either of you are going to be that familiar with the music of Fat Boy Slim.
25:42
Richard: Um, just enough to know I'm not a big fan, but I do Norman Cook.
25:47
Richard: Um, he had a big hit, the Funk Soul Brother.
25:51
Richard: I remember that's right.
25:52
Richard: If you actually listen to how many songs he sampled to make that song and to make that loop, it's insane.
25:59
Richard: There's even a little bit of David Bowie in there, I think, and a really obscure David Bowie.
26:03
Richard: And it's like the creativity that goes into seeing all of that and pushing it into a few bars of music is is actually it's it's a different skill.
26:13
Richard: And it's why I think AI will create its own new skill set and people will use it as a tool.
26:20
Richard: That said, the Diodario thing shows one thing, which is the minute you publicly say AI is used in any part of a creative output, you immediately draw yourself to the lowest common denominator and everyone says AI slop.
26:37
Richard: That's basically where we are now.
26:39
Richard: If you admit to using AI in any form at all, in music specifically, but definitely also in visual arts, people will just call you out as being AI slop without even considering how you've used it.
26:51
Brian: Apparently, meta-ads too.
26:54
Richard: Really?
26:54
Brian: Meta-ad images, yeah.
26:56
Richard: Well, the ones created by a certain guitar pedal course.
27:00
Brian: Maybe, yeah, yeah.
27:01
Brian: Whenever there's like little resistors that look like little men in different situations.
27:05
Brian: I mean, that was based on a real photo.
27:08
Brian: That was the one that was the one ad set that I had did not have.
27:13
Brian: I think I only had one person that called out AI.
27:16
Richard: Every other time you would call it AI.
27:18
Richard: I hope it was advertising the LED-driven MIDI course.
27:28
Brian: It definitely was.
27:28
Brian: But I mean, this so this goes back to what you just said a minute ago, which it's like two schools of thought with AI, right?
27:34
Brian: It's I can use it as a tool to do what I'm trying to do quicker, or I can outsource my thinking and it creates AI slot.
27:41
Brian: That's how I look at it anyway.
27:42
Brian: It's like uh I I'll use it as a tool, but I'm never gonna say, I don't know what to do here.
27:47
Brian: What should I do?
27:49
Richard: No, I don't know.
27:50
Richard: Well, I don't know, if it maybe if there's a nice girl that liked you and you were shy, bride.
27:54
Richard: That is true.
27:56
Brian: That is true.
27:57
Brian: I Amanda wouldn't appreciate that, but yeah, I get it.
28:00
Blake: Well, then there's the other side of the coin, and I've talked about this quite a bit, is you take the time to do something yourself, and it's not AI generated, and you, the person in front of the camera, are not AI generated.
28:13
Blake: There's no AI involved, really.
28:16
Blake: And yet still, people will be like, this is AI slop.
28:18
Blake: This is AI slop.
28:19
Blake: And for every person who really liked my like metal tracks I did on our Mark Mark Morton ad campaign, there was other people being like, this is just garbage AI music.
28:29
Blake: And I'm like, it's it's literally not.
28:31
Blake: You literally used a fuzz pedal into a tube amp to make this.
28:34
Blake: Like, I I don't know what to tell you.
28:36
Blake: You can believe it if you want, or you cannot believe it, but for a thousand dollars and come over and I'll show you how I did it.
28:44
Brian: That's right.
28:45
Brian: Come on up.
28:46
Richard: I like the way you're thinking about it.
28:47
Richard: Now, I'm not a um psychoanalyst, but I have coined a term for everybody on the internet, which is the internet brings out what I like to refer to as the snark reflex.
29:01
Richard: People like to punch down when they get a chance to.
29:06
Richard: So if someone thinks AI is is is being used, their snark reflex is immediately invoked, and they're like, You're using AI, you're worse than me.
29:15
Brian: And it it is just seen in everything.
29:18
Brian: Is this just really putting a magnifying glass on who some people really are deep down though?
29:23
Brian: Almost certainly.
29:24
Brian: I mean, I'm I just people I know, like you don't go on Facebook or whatever and try to find things to be starky about.
29:34
Brian: I try to do the opposite, doesn't always work, but I try to do the opposite but people do like I don't try to find them, but I find them.
29:41
Richard: They find me.
29:42
Richard: They find me.
29:43
Richard: But no, like so you know, I I I've been involved recently with uh launching an online course for Six String Alliance, and uh I'm looking at some of the video comments straight away, and straight away there's always one guy going, Why have you done this?
29:59
Richard: Why haven't you done that?
30:00
Richard: It's like, why are you telling me your opinion?
30:02
Richard: I don't need I can live another day without your opinion, and it just hardens us all.
30:08
Brian: Wait, give give it six months when you've been selling some pedals online.
30:12
Brian: You're about to see, you're about to see that get exaggerated.
30:15
Brian: I'm ready for that.
30:17
Richard: I mean, you know, it's hard to make a demo video, as proved by me having now made exactly one.
30:24
Brian: And just in comments, people, a lot of folks are like, you know, you should have done X or you should make a pedal that does Y.
30:31
Brian: Yeah.
30:32
Brian: Like, well, I'm not gonna make a pedal that makes fart sounds.
30:35
Brian: That's already been done.
30:36
Blake: It's already been done.
30:37
Blake: You can get it.
30:38
Blake: That's right.
30:39
Blake: I think they might have a version two out now by now.
30:42
Richard: I would like a pedal with a built-in air conditioning unit because we're in like month three of the British heat wave.
30:50
Richard: Like, no joke, this country is officially in a drought for like 50 or 60 percent of the country.
30:56
Richard: Wow.
30:57
Richard: It's insane.
30:58
Richard: Sounds like you are now live in the desert.
31:01
Richard: Well, essentially.
31:02
Richard: What's worse is my daughter does have air conditioning now.
31:05
Richard: She splashed out on a fancy portable unit and plumbed into her house.
31:10
Richard: The fancy portable unit, I know they're not that fancy or a jerk.
31:13
Richard: Oh no, no, she she went for a very fancy model.
31:16
Richard: Hers was made by Bosch, which is the kind of German premium.
31:21
Richard: Yeah, we're not gonna be able to do that.
31:22
Brian: So, what you're saying is you now live with your daughter.
31:24
Richard: Yeah, I've kicked them out of their house and we're moving in.
31:27
Blake: This is repayment for all the years you were freeloading.
31:30
Richard: Oh, she she has not gotten an account big enough for that, trust me.
31:34
Richard: Uh, but yeah, um, but it it is interesting.
31:37
Richard: Like I say, the snark response is strong at the moment.
31:40
Richard: So again, best avoid the internet.
31:42
Richard: Um but it's it sucks.
31:44
Richard: Fair play to Di A Dario, though.
31:47
Blake: Yeah.
31:47
Blake: I I I think we kind of said this when it first came around.
31:50
Blake: I was like, I don't know for a fact that they deserve what they're getting.
31:55
Richard: No, and let's face it, if I wouldn't be the one hating on Di Dario.
31:58
Richard: I was gonna say if there was one person who wanted to make DiA Dario feel bad, it would be Blake.
32:03
Blake: So yes, but but but I'm just trying to be honest, I'm like, oh when it first came out, I was like, I don't that sounds like modern metal production in a lot of ways.
32:11
Blake: And now, well, that's not necessarily my favorite thing.
32:14
Blake: It certainly is a sound I've heard before.
32:17
Blake: So uh and I and they have no I was like thinking about it, like they have no reason to want to do that.
32:26
Blake: That's not what they do.
32:27
Blake: They don't they don't have a reason to want to use generated stuff.
32:32
Blake: No, they don't have the resources to not use generated stuff.
32:36
Richard: So it's no guitar company has ever wanted to destroy their entire customer base in a series of weeks.
32:43
Richard: Correct, Fender?
32:45
Richard: Um I gotta just very quickly say uh a good friend of the podcast has recently become a Stringjoy convert, uh Munro Quinn, who did a little bit of a demo work on the purple ohm fuzz.
32:59
Richard: Um thank you.
33:00
Richard: He's bought some crazy beautiful jazz guitar and he's gone for Stringjoy 13s on it.
33:06
Richard: Oh, very yeeha! I like it.
33:11
Richard: He's playing some serious mellow jazz with that.
33:14
Richard: That's very cool.
33:15
Richard: Thank you, Munro.
33:16
Richard: So either that or he's a trained assassin and he's using them as piano wire.
33:22
Brian: And what you do with them is your business.
33:23
Brian: Right.
33:24
Brian: He might also enjoy his tendonitis in about 10 years, but that's okay.
33:28
Richard: Tendonitus I've got 11 tinnitus.
33:32
Richard: Uh right, another news story that we can't.
33:35
Brian: Yeah, let's get to the big one, man.
33:36
Brian: Come on, stop holding out.
33:38
Richard: Uh holding out.
33:39
Richard: Well, the big one is police have arrested a 61-year-old guitarist after a decade of noise complaint from his neighbors, and they've confiscated his guitars.
33:49
Richard: Sir, you are living the dream.
33:51
Richard: Well, no, I think his dream was to keep playing guitar.
33:54
Richard: Right.
33:54
Richard: Yeah.
33:55
Blake: No, I think the big story this week has to be the Japan, right?
34:00
Blake: That is out of Japan, yeah.
34:01
Blake: Well, sir, I hope you get your guitars back and you move into a more uh accepting neighborhood.
34:08
Richard: That's I hope he becomes your neighbor and plays nothing other than what's that one song?
34:13
Richard: Um Nickelback?
34:15
Richard: Free bird.
34:16
Richard: That's it.
34:17
Blake: Oh, Freebird?
34:18
Blake: I heard Freebird was playing.
34:20
Blake: Oh.
34:22
Brian: Good lord.
34:23
Brian: I thought we'd escape this.
34:26
Brian: This mayhem, but no.
34:29
Brian: Here we go.
34:30
Brian: Richard has to just poop trying to make sure gets Blake on the Freebird camp.
34:38
Brian: All right.
34:39
Richard: I mean You know what?
34:40
Richard: I like Freebird.
34:42
Richard: Blake can't have a birthday without singing to us as two Brian.
34:45
Richard: That's that's traditional.
34:47
Richard: I think we're supposed to sing to him.
34:49
Richard: No, no, no.
34:49
Richard: You've got it the wrong way around.
34:52
Richard: So let's hope we get these guitars back.
34:54
Richard: Let's talk about Nam.
34:55
Richard: Well, started in the late 50s.
34:57
Richard: It was a kind of byproduct of the fallout from World War II.
35:01
Richard: Oh, oh, not Vietnam.
35:03
Brian: Not Vietnam.
35:04
Richard: Oh no, no, no, no, no.
35:06
Blake: So we, I mean, you are, again, one of it takes place in Anaheim, California, typically.
35:12
Brian: Wrong Nam.
35:13
Blake: Oh.
35:13
Blake: That's the only one I know.
35:15
Brian: Let's talk about AI NAM.
35:17
Blake: What?
35:18
Richard: AI NAM.
35:19
Brian: AI NAM.
35:20
Richard: AI NAM Neuralamp modeling.
35:21
Richard: There's another joke in here somewhere.
35:23
Richard: Um again, you are one of the like guiding lights here.
35:28
Richard: You discovered N A M Nam a little early.
35:31
Richard: Neural am pretty much anyone I knew, you know.
35:35
Brian: Very early days, yeah.
35:36
Brian: And and became quick friends with Steve, the guy who created it.
35:39
Brian: Fantastic dude.
35:40
Brian: Yeah.
35:41
Richard: And kind of you know, we've thought about making some products and we've looked at what's involved, and suddenly it's everywhere.
35:50
Richard: Like we we drop the ball for a minute and look at some tube-based things, and suddenly everyone's going nam crazy.
35:57
Richard: And this week, I think it's been added to the headrush modeler.
36:02
Richard: I forget which model it is.
36:04
Brian: I'm sure by clicking on this link I've put uh it is the Tone3000.
36:12
Brian: Nope, nope, Tone 3000.
36:14
Brian: I that's a website, isn't it?
36:16
Richard: Oh, yes.
36:17
Richard: Okay.
36:17
Richard: Yeah, Tone 3000.
36:19
Brian: Yeah, okay.
36:19
Brian: Because there's now a website where you can buy NAM models.
36:22
Brian: Um, in fact, if you make NAM models, I I think this is the website, you can upload it to them.
36:26
Brian: They pay you a portion of profits.
36:28
Brian: It's a cool thing, actually.
36:29
Brian: It's a really cool thing.
36:31
Brian: It's kind of like reverb for people who make their own digital models.
36:34
Blake: STL Tones is doing something like that too.
36:37
Brian: Which is the am I confusing?
36:38
Blake: Uh you're very confusing.
36:40
Brian: There's a there's a free one and then there's a couple free ones, and then there's the paid one.
36:44
Blake: Yeah, STL has uh like a whole platform for that where you can.
36:50
Brian: I'm confused.
36:50
Brian: So I'm I'm I take that back.
36:52
Brian: Let me let me just back up a little bit.
36:53
Brian: Tone 3000 is the free one.
36:56
Brian: STL Tones is the is the expensive premium.
37:00
Brian: So this is I don't know.
37:01
Brian: I don't know if you guys have downloaded a lot of models.
37:04
Brian: Some like Tone 3000, for example, it's a great site, but it's you might go through a hundred different profiles to find a really good one.
37:13
Richard: And look, let's face it, there's there's only so many times you can hear somebody else's brown sound profile without actually producing your own brown sound.
37:19
Richard: Exactly.
37:20
Brian: Like it's it's like it's worse than trying to figure out which impulse response you want to use.
37:26
Richard: And I've got to tell you, before I get on it, so on the um on the uh headrush thing, it's actually a firmware update.
37:32
Richard: So it's on the Prime Core and Flex uh floorboard modelers if you update it.
37:37
Richard: So that's nice that you know existing users will get some new functionality.
37:41
Richard: Before I go back to it, I'm thinking about my um my new band's um kind of sound setup.
37:50
Richard: Quite honestly, Briar, I think it's it it's possibly just gonna be a gearbox and a catacombs.
37:55
Richard: I I don't think I need any more than those two things.
37:58
Brian: Well, you would just wait just a few months there, buddy.
38:01
Brian: Uh we got this little device coming.
38:03
Brian: It's called pedal head or pedal cage.
38:06
Brian: Head head head or something.
38:09
Brian: Head what do we call that thing?
38:12
Richard: Head heed! The pedal heed in the Scottish version.
38:18
Brian: Yeah, so um it's actually turning even better.
38:22
Brian: Like I keep talking about how we're changing that thing.
38:24
Brian: I'm not not to turn this into Wobbler product thing, but um You're allowed to.
38:29
Brian: It's uh I just was on a phone call meeting this morning about this, and it's even has even better and more options.
38:36
Brian: Yeah, not I'm not even gonna not even talk about it in the public form yet, but oh it's getting even better.
38:42
Brian: So it makes muffins.
38:44
Brian: Um Steve Stevens actually just used it.
38:46
Brian: You should, in fact, when this goes out, you should see a post about this on Instagram.
38:50
Brian: Um, he loved it, absolutely loved it.
38:54
unknown: Nice.
38:54
Richard: I'm immediately going to Instagram to follow Steve Stevens.
38:57
Brian: I don't know if he's done it yet, but that was a word I heard this morning.
39:00
Brian: So maybe I wasn't supposed to say anything about that yet.
39:03
Brian: I don't know.
39:03
Brian: But if I wasn't, oops, my bad.
39:06
Richard: And if you were, well, it comes out tomorrow, so it's fine.
39:08
Richard: Right.
39:09
Brian: Uh maybe.
39:10
Brian: So yeah, I mean, and actually we have several other well-known guitar players that are trying it out for us on the road and loving it.
39:18
Brian: In fact, one of them that you would definitely know could not believe it wasn't tubes.
39:23
Brian: We did a blind A-B test.
39:25
Brian: He picked ours over a tube-based one, and then we told him which one it was.
39:32
Blake: Yeah, so was I.
39:33
Blake: I mean, I was thinking we need to change its name.
39:36
Richard: I can't believe it's not an M.
39:38
Brian: Here's where the you know musicians love magic thing comes in.
39:40
Brian: Once he learned that it was the completely digital product, he then said, All right, let's do the test again, but this time I want to know which one's which.
39:48
Brian: Yeah, I want to know which one I don't like.
39:50
Brian: I think I'm gonna stick with the two when he says so.
39:52
Brian: Yeah, yeah.
39:52
Brian: That's fair enough.
39:53
Brian: After after he figured, you know, after we told him.
39:55
Brian: Yeah, we made it a little bit more than that.
39:57
Blake: And then that's a thing, then your tri your brain's tricking itself and you're like, that and that's a real thing.
40:02
Blake: Like, yeah, he does really like that one better because that's what he likes better.
40:07
Blake: But I you know, on the blind test, you're not you don't have that influence.
40:11
Blake: Right.
40:11
Blake: Yeah.
40:13
unknown: Yeah.
40:13
Blake: So again, if I pick up a guitar that I think is beautiful and I really love it, I'm gonna like it better than one that sounds exactly the same, but I think looks like a butt.
40:23
Blake: Like it's just I might like the one that looks like a butt more.
40:27
Brian: I like to take whenever I change strings, I like to take multiple string companies and combine them together.
40:32
Brian: Yeah.
40:32
Brian: And just, you know, that way I don't really know what string I'm using.
40:37
Richard: Yeah.
40:37
Brian: You know?
40:38
Richard: But to be fair, Bri, that's my new idea.
40:41
Richard: Random string packs.
40:43
Richard: I'm gonna send you six strings, all of different gauges, all of different manufacturers.
40:49
Richard: And like one out of 100 combinations will be genius.
40:53
Richard: 99 of them will be terrible.
40:55
Richard: These are all 42 gauge strings.
40:58
Blake: That's right.
40:59
Blake: That's what Ryan Burke has done some uh all the same gauge uh tests on his video.
41:04
Richard: Yeah, like all oops, all nines as I said, one of the greatest riffs ever in science fiction-based prog rock music was made by tuning every string to the same pitch, some with obviously different octaves, and just playing that one note riff around with a slide.
41:25
Richard: That's that's how you do this stuff.
41:26
Richard: So yeah, I love it.
41:28
Richard: My apologies for derailing the conversation completely off of uh it was valid because there's a lot of excitement about the uh pedal uh oh, what's it called?
41:37
Brian: This we're talking about pedal the head rush using NAM integration now.
41:42
Richard: Yeah, but I'm saying that there is a lot of excitement about that um that one product that you've mentioned, pedal.
41:49
Richard: That's the one pedal.
41:50
Richard: Uh not pedal cap.
41:51
Richard: That was my April Fool's joke, and you must remember that before you go telling people about it.
41:55
Brian: You never know if that's gonna be a real thing, though.
41:57
Richard: You don't, it might.
41:58
Richard: Uh I I I'm quite excited though about the idea of a universally accepted open source or architecture for most of the.
42:07
Brian: I love it, man.
42:08
Brian: I I and especially again, I'm I keep talking over you guys.
42:11
Brian: I'm sorry.
42:12
Brian: No, you carry on, Big Brian.
42:14
Brian: For example, I'm building the software that is going to use NAM files in order to create circuits.
42:21
Brian: We can make a circuit and play it through a NAM file.
42:24
Brian: Uh and for designing stuff, it's great because I I'd just make a model of my AMP, and that way I can always have that in the software.
42:32
Brian: I don't have to hook anything up.
42:34
Brian: So it's it's super handy to have to be able to model my entire chain, stick it into my software, and um make things go much quicker when designing stuff.
42:45
Blake: Bob's your uncle, I'm I think.
42:47
Brian: Bob is my apple, actually.
42:48
Richard: I keep I I I keep forgetting to do this.
42:50
Richard: There's a brand new advert over here, Blake.
42:53
Richard: And are you familiar with the actor Richard E.
42:55
Richard: Grant?
42:56
Richard: Probably with Nail and I.
42:59
Richard: Like he's a classic South African but British sounding actor.
43:04
Richard: Anyway, he's doing this posh advert for a food company.
43:07
Richard: At the end of it, he goes, Pour on some uh olive oil, and jobs are good.
43:12
Richard: And I'm like, I need to record this and send it to Blake.
43:15
Richard: So he knows I'm not making up.
43:18
Richard: Yeah, that guy.
43:19
Blake: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:20
Richard: We've been in a few films.
43:21
Richard: This guy.
43:22
Richard: Yeah.
43:22
Richard: I don't know why you're showing it to me.
43:23
Richard: I've seen it.
43:24
Richard: Yeah, yeah.
43:25
Richard: Jobs are good.
43:26
Richard: Jobs are good, and I'm gonna record it and send it to you.
43:29
Richard: But again, Bright, I I'm quite excited by just the idea, like from a software point of view, having a universal platform removes a lot of unnecessary shit for the user, basically.
43:42
Richard: Um, because like all modelers are much of a muchness these days.
43:47
Richard: You buy a Black Star or you buy a Helix or you buy a fractal.
43:52
Richard: Yes, the more you pay, the more highly tuned your model will be.
43:58
Richard: But it's the law of diminishing.
43:59
Richard: Finishing returns.
44:00
Richard: And I know this because I bought a $250 Black Star floor unit and was flawed by it.
44:07
Richard: It's it's so usable.
44:08
Richard: I was flawed by the floor unit.
44:11
Richard: If it sat on your desk, you'd be desked by it.
44:13
Richard: I do put it on my desk quite often, and that freaks me out, by the way.
44:19
Blake: That's what desk just does over here.
44:20
Blake: Freaked out.
44:21
Blake: Yeah, okay.
44:21
Blake: All right.
44:22
Blake: It's a new Gen Z slang.
44:23
Blake: Oh, you're being serious?
44:25
Blake: De desk maxing.
44:26
Blake: No way.
44:27
Blake: Blake, you're giving.
44:29
Blake: I'm giving, look, I'm giving dad maxing right now.
44:33
Blake: Okay.
44:34
Richard: Ironically, Max Desking is your uh non-diplum for another industry, but we'll we'll talk about that another time.
44:42
Richard: Yeah.
44:43
Blake: Anyways, NAM files.
44:44
Richard: My name's Max Desking.
44:46
Richard: It's quite a good name, Max Desking.
44:49
Richard: I might take that one up.
44:50
Richard: What about uh what about these NAM files?
44:52
Richard: Uh I'm interested in them.
44:54
Richard: But it's a matter of time before you're able to just like uh essentially have super cheap, super accurate mini modelers.
45:03
Richard: Mm-hmm.
45:04
Blake: I mean, IK did this recently, right?
45:07
Blake: I mean the Tonex was not.
45:09
Blake: The new Tonex mini module.
45:11
Blake: When it came out, part of the big selling point of it was like, hey, same exact idea, a lot cheaper and really good.
45:17
Richard: And it is really good.
45:18
Richard: And did you guys see the leaked Tonex, whatever it is, board with the little grab rail handles on it?
45:24
Richard: No, but I like grab rail handles.
45:26
Richard: Yeah, it's got grab rail handles on it and about three more switches, and it's basically a tonex and it looks really good.
45:31
Richard: But whenever anyone posted a picture of it, it got taken down by men in black.
45:36
Richard: What the hell was that?
45:39
Richard: It's men in black swooping in.
45:41
Blake: Okay, fair enough.
45:42
Brian: You just got flashed, buddy.
45:43
Blake: Yeah.
45:44
Brian: You lost your memory.
45:45
Richard: Trust me, last time I got flashed, it did not end well.
45:48
Richard: You didn't lose your memory of it either, unfortunately.
45:51
Richard: Well, that's what you think.
45:52
Richard: Um, yeah, so would you consider uh revisiting NAM, do you think, bro?
45:58
Richard: I know you're using it for experimental toolology, but I I I think it's a great tool.
46:04
Brian: I mean I don't how do I say this?
46:08
Brian: I don't think that modelers are bad.
46:10
Brian: It's just if you put me in a room and say you can either play through this Marshall or this, you know, model of it, I'd prefer the Marshall.
46:19
Brian: I like it more.
46:20
Richard: And again, I think we're back to our vinyl CD thing.
46:23
Richard: Like objectively, CDs are an amazing format, but there's just something special about a vinyl that we can all hear once our ears are progressed to the level where we admit dark side of the room is the best album.
46:37
Brian: Because usually when people are uh have a really good vinyl setup, that they have a really good amp setup, they have really good speakers, etc.
46:42
Brian: etc.
46:43
Brian: Right.
46:43
Brian: Well, you don't really see that with people that play CDs, you know.
46:46
Brian: It's like I bought this.
46:47
Richard: Oh no, no, you do, Brian.
46:49
Richard: I've got a I have it.
46:50
Brian: I don't see that.
46:51
Richard: So I I have like an 800-pound CD player.
46:55
Richard: Okay.
46:56
Brian: And honestly, are a bigger nerd than me.
46:58
Richard: Well, okay, but also it's amazing.
47:01
Richard: Like when you listen to music on it, it does bring out a clarity in the I and again, really, a CD is made of two things, right?
47:09
Richard: It's made of the transport, the disc player, and the DAC.
47:13
Richard: Yeah, digital conversion from LR conversion circuit, right?
47:17
Richard: And there's something special about a certain type of DAC that's in high-end CD players that it just brings out a little bit more clarity and has its own sound.
47:29
Richard: It's not the same as vinyl, though.
47:31
Richard: Vinyl, you're definitely hearing stuff that isn't in the digital, but with the digital, you're hearing a frequency beyond vinyl.
47:42
Brian: Here's my question, though.
47:43
Brian: And uh honest question, I'm not leading you anywhere.
47:46
Brian: If we put as much effort into the sound systems around a uh CD setup, could we make it as good as vinyl?
47:55
Blake: It's always gonna sound different.
47:57
Blake: Yeah.
47:58
Brian: But like I mean, with neuromodeling, could we do that?
48:01
Blake: It's always gonna sound different because vinyl doesn't have the frequency range that digital does, like right, Richard was saying.
48:07
Brian: So what you're saying is we could take a neural model and make that solid that that's well.
48:16
Richard: Obviously, the way a record is pressed, you're getting you're not getting 44,000 samples per you know cycle.
48:24
Richard: You're you're getting continual sampling and a very kind of simple ramping up and down.
48:31
Richard: If you were to add some kind of technology to add that into CDs, that would be like upscaling a 1080p video to 4K.
48:42
Richard: Technically, it's 4K, and technically the details would be better, but it's not the same.
48:48
Richard: And I'm watching an upscaled thing on uh on YouTube at the moment because it's not available on the channels.
48:55
Richard: And let me tell you, those actors did not appear with that many wrinkles on the screen in the original because the upscaling has added its own bits, as it were.
49:04
Brian: I think I think I'm asking something that's backwards from that though, which is if you have a CD system, can you not use neural modeling in order to make it sound like the No, that's exactly what I'm saying.
49:17
Richard: You could, but it would need to artificially fill in information that isn't in the CD because the CD is a number of ones and zeros.
49:24
Richard: So in order to fill in that information, it's like upscaling video because it's adding information that isn't there to interpolate between the points.
49:32
Richard: And although it'll do a good job, I don't think it can ever be exactly as good.
49:37
Richard: But isn't that roughly what neural modeling could do, though?
49:41
Richard: I'm not an expert enough on neural modeling uh audio technologies, but that's never stopped me from casting an opinion before.
49:51
Brian: So I mean, like if you take your guitar signal and you put it through a neural modeler, it's modeling all of the harmonics and all of the inconsistencies and nonlinear behaviors of a tube amper or whatever, or a transformer, or like everything all together.
50:05
Brian: That's why I'm saying, like, there surely is a way to use neuromodeling technology to put it on your CD vine your CD system and make it sound like a vinyl system.
50:17
Richard: I mean, there definitely is.
50:18
Richard: I mean, there's obviously record simulators that you can buy as plugins where you can literally add the noise of a record player.
50:26
Brian: But it's not just the noise, though, is it?
50:28
Brian: No, there's no diamonds.
50:32
Richard: Yeah, on a record.
50:33
Richard: And I, you know, again, I'm I'm not clever enough to tell you why it just is Brian, and you've got to listen to me.
50:38
Richard: It just isn't.
50:39
Blake: I can tell you why the bass is different on a record, actually.
50:42
Blake: So when you're mixing a record, you cannot put as much low-end information.
50:47
Blake: Usually it's on the master, if in my experience, but you literally have to make the mix different if you're gonna press it to vinyl.
50:54
Blake: You mix it because it will ultra vinyl.
50:55
Blake: It will physically skip out if it's got too much low-end information.
51:00
Blake: And so a record's actually gonna have less low end than a digital file, typically speaking.
51:05
Blake: Um as somebody who had put a ton of low end into his mixes, uh, and I am always fighting with my tendency to do that.
51:15
Blake: Like we had to take that into account when pressing the vinyl.
51:19
Blake: So I guess it it's that, but then also what you're saying, Richard, it's truly continuous on a record.
51:25
Blake: There's no gap.
51:26
Blake: Yeah.
51:26
Blake: Whereas even though we we don't perceive it, digital samples are always just down to resolution.
51:33
Richard: Right.
51:33
Richard: And I think the perception thing is really important.
51:36
Richard: Have you ever seen a 60 frames per second video versus a 30 frames per second video?
51:41
Brian: Or even 120 frames, yeah.
51:42
Brian: Right.
51:43
Richard: And can you see a difference in those higher frame rates?
51:46
Brian: If you're playing video games, you can't.
51:47
Brian: Well, hold on.
51:48
Brian: 60, yes.
51:49
Brian: But once you get so high, I don't think you really see it much unless you're like playing video games or something.
51:54
Richard: Received wisdom is there should be no real difference between around 24 and 30 frames per second, right?
51:59
Richard: Anything above that you shouldn't see.
52:01
Richard: But there is like smearing and stuff, yeah.
52:04
Richard: You can definitely see a difference.
52:07
Richard: And for me, a 60 frames a second video or video game feels like it moves sharper and more naturally than uh you know, uh a lower frame rate, which is which is jerky.
52:18
Blake: I prefer the lower frame rate for like creative stuff, like for sure.
52:22
Blake: It has a feel to it, it makes it look more like what you're used to seeing, in my opinion.
52:28
Richard: How do you know what I'm used to seeing?
52:30
Richard: Just saying.
52:33
Richard: I don't even know if you're a real person.
52:34
Richard: I mean I'm gonna say, Blake, out of everybody on this podcast, you're probably the least qualified to know what I'm used to seeing.
52:42
Richard: Just throwing that random insult out there.
52:45
Richard: That is hurtful.
52:47
Richard: That is hurtful.
52:49
Blake: My dad has me reading stuff for him all the time, and I'm like, yay, I'm the one with one eye here.
52:55
Richard: Yeah, but it's one good eye, one beautiful good eye.
52:59
Richard: Um, it's pretty good.
53:00
Richard: It is a pretty good eyeball.
53:01
Richard: I wish I had the other one.
53:03
Richard: Uh well, again, it's not gonna be long.
53:06
Richard: Like, for sure, medical science is going to get to the point where one of two things will happen.
53:12
Richard: Either you can have a camera implanted into an eyeball-sized machine that sends stuff to your brain, or you can't.
53:20
Richard: They're the two things that are gonna happen.
53:22
Richard: You'd be up for that, right?
53:26
Richard: Uh depends on a lot of factors.
53:30
Richard: Because I got you booked in next Tuesday for the uh the the B Wompler Institute of Ocular Razor Surgery.
53:38
Blake: Is this what my those plane tickets to Turkey were for?
53:41
Blake: That's it.
53:42
Richard: Oh uh have you eaten all of the pastrami yet?
53:45
Blake: Yes.
53:45
Blake: Good.
53:46
Richard: Working on the corned beef now.
53:47
Richard: Some of it was laced.
53:49
Richard: Um, hey, which reminds me, I've got to tell you a story about the uh filming of the film Titanic in the uh in the Patreon.
53:56
Blake: Oh, all right.
53:56
Richard: Yeah, it involves PCP.
53:58
Richard: I basically just told you the story, but uh no, I'm really interested in it.
54:03
Richard: Look before we uh disappear, I did see something on Instagram that I've never seen before but have often thought about, which is a guitar with pickups on rails.
54:13
Richard: Yes, so you can move them between neck and bridge and have like a quad humbucker or you know, split them.
54:20
Richard: I've seen this before.
54:21
Richard: There are more people doing this like again with my thing about like there should be a standard for amp modeling, there should be a standard for pickup connection because everyone's I'll tell you why they're not doing it because it's been tried many, many times in different formats and combinations, and the market never really latches on to it.
54:40
Blake: The Gibson grabbers did this back in the 70s, and I think there was things that did similar things before that, even nobody they never really latch on, nobody really the market doesn't seem to actually want this.
54:53
Richard: Hmm.
54:54
unknown: Yeah.
54:54
Richard: What about a modular pit guard?
54:56
Richard: Where you can just go, I want to add a tone knob here, and it lets you like plug in.
55:00
Blake: Tower did something similar to that back uh several years ago, I believe, with their Titan series.
55:05
Blake: They had like one guitar model and it looked really cool, and you could buy different pit guards for it.
55:10
Blake: The strat's kind of that way anyway.
55:12
Blake: Kind of.
55:14
Richard: Because of a certain Mr.
55:15
Richard: Jamie Humphreys who's touring playing David Gilmore music and getting paid for it, which is like the dream for me.
55:22
Richard: I am very convinced I'm gonna buy one of those EMG loaded Gilmore um pickup sets.
55:28
Richard: They look really, really amazing.
55:31
Blake: I mean, I think that's an interesting thing you brought up, Richard.
55:33
Blake: Like, why hasn't this been adopted?
55:35
Blake: It's like because guitar players want more guitars, they don't want to have less guitars.
55:40
Blake: They don't like it, right?
55:43
Blake: This guitar can do all the sounds.
55:44
Blake: Good.
55:45
Blake: I don't care.
55:46
Blake: I want multiple guitars.
55:48
Blake: I don't want a Variax.
55:50
Richard: Why hasn't anyone made a color-changing guitar?
55:52
Blake: They have.
55:53
Blake: How did it work?
55:54
Blake: I don't remember, but I saw it in him.
55:56
Blake: I'm gonna say probably LEDs.
55:58
unknown: Right.
55:58
Richard: I was gonna say, like, uh surely now with I don't know what the latest kind of pixel technology is, but surely you could wrap a guitar with some sort of OLED technology and just have whatever you want as the There's gotta be.
56:13
Richard: I'm sure there is.
56:14
Brian: Yeah.
56:14
Brian: There's probably just not a huge demand for it because musicians still buy vintage strats.
56:20
Richard: I I gotta I I've just invented a low-rent solution.
56:24
Richard: The body is hollow, it's made out of see-through plastic, and there is a filler tube, and you just put a funnel in and fill it with the paint colour of your choice.
56:34
Richard: Oh, yeah, that's great.
56:36
Richard: It's a genius idea.
56:38
Richard: Yeah, and you can just empty it out and change it, and it won't at all go brown and muddy when everyone's playing a sort of off-brown purple guitar eventually.
56:49
Blake: No, no, that that that'll never happen.
56:51
Blake: It'll be totally fine.
56:54
Richard: I'm gonna go and patent this right now.
56:56
Richard: You should do that.
56:57
Richard: You should definitely do that.
56:59
Richard: I'm doing it.
57:00
Brian: Try and stop me.
57:01
Brian: Hey, speaking of stopping you.
57:03
Brian: Oh.
57:03
Brian: It's time to end this episode.
57:06
Brian: It's time to end this damn episode, right?
57:09
Richard: Oh uh well, I should probably say a big shout out to our wandiferous uh executive.
57:17
Brian: Luciferous.
57:19
Richard: Our Luciferous and Wandiferous executive producer are yes.
57:23
Richard: Uh so that would be Bill Bays, Andrew Adkins, David Tyndall, Dave Trombetty, Eric Wilson, V Dar Frostad, Michael Freer, Sean Arbo of Gunspeak Wiring, Rick Calhoun of Honey Picks.
57:36
Richard: Oh, they've got some nice new picks, by the way.
57:38
Richard: Patrice Fournays, Dylan Talkstone, Missouri Electrical Box Company, Kevin Harrington, Barry from Grez Guitars.
57:44
Richard: He's got some amazing guitars.
57:45
Richard: Tom Kelly, Jake Young of the Man the Helm Podcast, uh Pigsy, John O'Neill, Robert Carr, Hunter Hudson, Rob Stokes, Nick Spain O Sasha, Sir, Jay Stratton, Harry Post, Grumpy Mike, Harvey Pedals, Alison Carroll, Bum Laser, Anthony Stevens, after players guitar, Philip Carter of the 40Watt.
58:02
Richard: Easy, easy.
58:06
Brian: They're hard-earned money here.
58:08
Richard: Okay, I'll go back.
58:09
Richard: Bum laser.
58:10
Richard: Anthony Stevens.
58:11
Richard: There you go.
58:12
Richard: At a play's guitar, Philip Carter of the 40W podcast.
58:15
Richard: Christopher Logan, Jason Engelhart, Dylan Lewis of Leeward Sound, Josh, James Thompson, Colin Littlejohn, Machete of Odin, Derek Lyons, Darth Bagel, Dustin Romero, The Wizard of Woz, Crappy Tom, Bud Cole, Sentient Ponytail, DJ Farnes, Carl Viana, Robert Hahn, John Hill, Nick Cole, Kyle Ray, Your Face, Dave Evangelista of the Guitar Dads Podcast, Roxy Gwyn, Derek Howe, Churchill from Cam Girls Plus, Ross Edwards, and William Price.
58:53
Richard: Thank you so much.
58:54
Richard: You're wonderful.
58:55
Brian: I'd like to add two more on there this week.
58:57
Brian: Two more on?
58:58
Brian: What?
58:59
Brian: Two more on two onto the executive producers.
59:02
Brian: I'd like to add Blake Wyland and Richard Oliver.
59:07
Brian: I'll invoice you for that.
59:09
Brian: Okay.
59:10
Brian: You just fired us.
59:12
Brian: We're just being fired on air again.
59:14
Brian: I think so.
59:16
Brian: Hey, we'll talk to everyone later.
59:18
Brian: See ya.
59:19
Brian: Bye.
59:20
Brian: Thanks for listening to the Chasing Tone Podcast.
59:22
Brian: If you have any comments, questions, or concerns, shoot me an email at podcast at womplerpedals.com and I'll personally get your email.
59:28
Brian: You can reach Blake at infotonemob.com.
59:31
Brian: Richard is Richard at WamperPedals.com.
59:33
Brian: If you want to support the show, the easiest and free way is just to share this episode with a friend, leave a rating and review wherever you listen.
59:40
Brian: Helps more than you know.
59:41
Brian: Be sure to check out Blake's other podcast called the Tone Mob for even more guitar talking.
59:46
Brian: If you love pedals, of course, check out wamperpedals.com.
59:48
Brian: If you're curious about designing and building your own guitar pedals, head over to guitarpedal course.com for step by step courses.
59:55
Brian: And for bonus content, behind the scene discussions, and extra fun, join us on patreon.com slash chastingtone podcast.
1:00:03
Brian: Thanks again.
1:00:03
Brian: We'll talk to you next week.