Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / John Balsdon on World Records and Crossing Africa

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John Balsdon on World Records and Crossing Africa · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I am here with a
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: very special guest. This is a recent world record holder.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We've got John Ball's done from Always Look twice and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: he just completed an incredible journey across Africa, going from
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Nord Cap in Norway all the way to Cape Agullis
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: in the South of Africa. John, thank you so much
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  Speaker 1: for being on the podcast today.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Scott, I'm delighted to be here, you know, personally and professionally,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I'm very please.
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  Speaker 1: Well, what you've done is incredible. I mean we were
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  Speaker 1: just chatting a few minutes ago. You know, I completed
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  Speaker 1: my journey similar to that down the west coast of
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  Speaker 1: Africa in December, and I was I was so grateful
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: for the opportunity to interact with you throughout that process.
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  Speaker 1: And man, I was really rooting for you, you know,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I just having been through that gone it myself, and
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  Speaker 1: for you to have done it in let's see here,
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  Speaker 1: it would be about forty percent of the time that
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I did it in, maybe even thirty five percent of
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  Speaker 1: the time. I can't imagine that. Before we dig into
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  Speaker 1: the before we dig into the record I would love
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  Speaker 1: to know a little bit about what inspired you early
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: in life to get into the idea of not only
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: experiencing the natural world, but for you to document it
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: at the level of quality and impact that you've had
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: as a photographer as well.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: It's all started, thank you very much, Scott. It all
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: really started when I was probably twelve or thirteen years old.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: My mother was a professional photographer, and cool you start
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: looking at things in a different way. And then after
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I finished university, I went to America. I worked in
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Boston as a bartender, which in my early tweets with
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: this accent, I had a great time, and I bet
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: you did, I really did, so it was great, and
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  Speaker 2: that gave me enough money to then go home, put
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: back on my back and disappear into India for three
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: and a half months, and then go through Southeast Asia
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: and then back through Egypt. And I spent a lot
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  Speaker 2: of time photographing then, and it just sort of followed
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: me through for the rest of my adult life till
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I finally came out the other side after a career
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  Speaker 2: and my kids and I then decided that I wanted
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to do something serious, so at that stage I went
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  Speaker 2: off to Kenya, went up to the Riff Valley. I
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  Speaker 2: had a Phase one camera and I rented a helicopter
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: for the very first time, and I went up there.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: And after I had come back and I realized what
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: it was, that was it for me. I was hooked.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And so I've gone back to Kenya, Botswana, Namibia, Australia.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Now we're doing this. It just drives me. I love
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: seeing the shapes, the patterns, the people, the environments. It
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: just takes you out of what we live in. And
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: that's what's driven me up to now. And that's as
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: far as I'm so, that's it now for the rest
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  Speaker 2: of it, as long as I can, as long as
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  Speaker 2: I can walk and talk, I'm going to keep doing
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  Speaker 2: this because it's just too much fun and I just
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  Speaker 2: love it.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 2: In my career, I worked in fifty four countries. I
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: lived in Russia for a decade from nine two thousand
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  Speaker 2: and six. Wow, I traveled enormously. So it's all part
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: of it, all molds together. So that's the reason why.
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  Speaker 1: You know, let's let's dig back into the comment you
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: made about your mom being a professional photographer. I find
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: that even for myself, my dad being an outdoorsman was
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: so important to my development as a youth. What did
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: you learn from your mom? What were the things that
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: you learned from your mom as a photographer, or how
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: did she help develop that interest and that skill for you?
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  Speaker 2: She was it was the attention to detail really and framing.
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  Speaker 2: That's what she helped me with. And then after that
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  Speaker 2: she just said you crack on. And my school was
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  Speaker 2: lucky enough. I went to a state school. I didn't
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: go to private school, but somehow or other, in a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: state school they had a dark room and my mum
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  Speaker 2: permitted me to go in there for what I felt
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  Speaker 2: like it was ten minutes and it was four or
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: five hours sure, and you know, developing everything from film.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And she would just look at things and say, that's
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  Speaker 2: really really good. Just keep doing it, keep doing it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: The most important thing is to keep practicing. Don't be
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: scared of your failures. It's fine, there's always another photograph.
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  Speaker 2: So that's really how she encouraged me. And because she
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  Speaker 2: went to Singapore when she was very young. She got
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  Speaker 2: married at eighteen somehow they've done a photographic career before
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  Speaker 2: then in England, and then got married to my dad
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  Speaker 2: at eighteen, had me when she was eighteen. But she
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: went to Singapore in nineteen sixty five, can you imagine,
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  Speaker 2: so she very adventures. She said it took her four
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: or five plane trips to get there, So probably that
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  Speaker 2: inspired me a little bit too.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've talked about it in the podcast before, but
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's just so important how parents support those
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: glimmers of creativity and their children. And the fact that
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I had parents that were so encouraging of me to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: explore the world, you know, even though they felt worried
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: about my safety, of course, but they never told me
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  Speaker 1: not to or that I couldn't do it. So having
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: a mom that encouraged you so early in life, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it seems like it really sets you up for success.
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  Speaker 2: It definitely helped, and she never stopped me. You know,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: when I look back on going to India, I just
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: put a backpack, I made some dollars in America, had
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  Speaker 2: a great time, and then I just went to India
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  Speaker 2: and there was no internet, there was no phones, the
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  Speaker 2: any way I could communicate. You probably don't even remember this.
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  Speaker 2: She used to write on these blue hair male envelopes.
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  Speaker 2: Used to write on the inside and then fold them
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: over and then you would send them off and she'd
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: get them a month later, and then you have to
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: go to a PO box in a major city to
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: get a letter from her. So as far as she
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: was concerned, and my family was because I was off gride,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: no chance of any communication, and my god, that was liberating.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: It was Yeah. I mean, do you ever miss that?
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, you just traveled with starlink and I do
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that all the time. Do you ever miss that experience
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  Speaker 1: that you had as a youth traveling where you there
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  Speaker 1: just wasn't a way to communicate.
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  Speaker 2: Really, I really miss it because it very much. I
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: was reflecting on my experience recently, and what I really
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: liked was, although I did have Starling and I did
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: have a Ridiom, I was disconnected in large measure for
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: most of the time, and it enabled me to really
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: reflect on a whole bunch of things. So I am
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: so grateful for that period because I was able to, literally,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: in my early twenties, just disappear and find myself. Yeah,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: and I think it's quite sad. My daughter is currently
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: in Thailand running around and she's still texting me every day,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and don't text me, don't do any just go and
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  Speaker 2: do it then tell me all about it when you
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: get back.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. How do you feel like, I mean,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: spending that amount of time in India so young, what
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: were some of the things that you found you that
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  Speaker 1: really changed about you being in Asia and being in
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: such a culture unique to your own. I mean, although
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: of course the UK had big impacts on India through
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: through the decades, But how did you find traveling in
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  Speaker 1: that country was for you?
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  Speaker 2: It changed me a India I'm assuming you've been. India
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  Speaker 2: is just this multi How can you really describe it.
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  Speaker 2: It's like life constantly in k but across every sense.
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  Speaker 2: So your nose is assaulted with the smells, your ears
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  Speaker 2: are assaulted with different things that are going on, from
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: modernity to extreme antiquity. Your taste buds are on fire
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  Speaker 2: a lot of the time, and you just have these
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  Speaker 2: extreme situations. I mean, the one that always struck me.
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  Speaker 2: I went to a place called Mysore and Mysaw there
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  Speaker 2: I went to the train station and there's this little
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  Speaker 2: girl who clearly her parents and it's a practice that
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: goes on to this present day. It said they're very poor,
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  Speaker 2: they'll actually break the limbs of their children so they
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: can beg more effectively, and they said litle girl sort
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  Speaker 2: of came across like a crab. To me. It nearly
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: broke my heart. I was just like, this is just terrible.
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  Speaker 2: So I gave her a bit of money. But I
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: spoke to her and she spoke a bit of English back,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and I smiled at her. So I was really desolate
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  Speaker 2: about this situation because I knew what had happened to her.
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  Speaker 2: And then she said, where are you going? And I said, well,
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  Speaker 2: I'm I'm going down to Madras, but I don't know
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  Speaker 2: where to go. And she reached her she grabbed me
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  Speaker 2: by the hat and she took me all through the
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  Speaker 2: train station and put me onto the right train. So
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: from the depths of absolutely oh this is awful, to
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  Speaker 2: my god, you know, humanity can be truly wonderful, and
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  Speaker 2: it made me feel very grateful and humility and all
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: of that in the space of ten minutes. And that
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  Speaker 2: was my experience of India. It took me. I went
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: back after being out there for about three and a
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  Speaker 2: half months, and I went back to my studies and
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  Speaker 2: I felt like I'd been taken from a world of
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  Speaker 2: eight K color into black and white, tiny little television
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: screen because everything in England was quite everything was very
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: muted after that experience, and it took me quite a
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: long time to get settled into that act, back into it,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and it made me realize whenever I could, I was
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: getting out there again because it just expanded my horizons.
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  Speaker 2: Generally in general, I find decent and you get to
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  Speaker 2: learn something, and so that made me hunger for more.
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  Speaker 2: If that makes sense.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: It does, and I think about that a lot myself,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: where I'll have these profound experiences and then I come
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: back to the day to day, just a regular office environment,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: and how do I keep a lot of those things
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that have changed about me alive?
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  Speaker 3: How do you do that?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: John? Now that you've had time, spent time traveling so
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: much around the world, you spent time in Russia and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: in Nigeria and obviously many journeys as a photographer, But
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  Speaker 1: how do you keep that alive when you come back
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to London? How do you how do you keep that
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: part of you going? Do you have any tricks or
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: tips that you can give to the audience to help
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: keep that going?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the first thing is plan the next one
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  Speaker 2: that always helps. But in terms of for those who
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: aren't able to plan the next one quickly. For me,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I like to journal and write down how I felt.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: It's why I'm doing stuff on LinkedIn at the moment,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: because and I'm going to write a book, but anything
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: that you can just remind yourself how lucky you are
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: and try and jot it down or dictate it and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: just remember how you felt, and it just I find
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that it makes you calm in situations which previously would
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: probably have quite irritated you. But that's how I do.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I just keep reflecting on how lucky I've been to
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: see these things, and I try to remember it in
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: vivid words. And if I can do that, every time
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  Speaker 2: I think what was it? Like, why was I doing that,
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  Speaker 2: you go back to it. I don't want to be
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: in a situation where the only time I'm living is
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: when I'm out there, because that's a real waste of life,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I think, because you're just living a different life. It's
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: just a I think when you're out there, because there
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: are only so many variables. I don't know about you,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: but I certainly find that a day doing something like that,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: even though it's very intense, seems to take up about
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: a week of my memory being in England, and I
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: certainly feel like a day there lasts so much longer.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it's the not Maybe it's the novel nature
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: of what we're experiencing traveling. And it's why I why
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I'm asking you the question because I realize, even for myself,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I was just in this twenty year at very intense
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: travel cycle, and now I'm trying to learn how to,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you know, enjoy just going to the grocery store things
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: like that. I mean, obviously trips are coming up, but
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn a little bit more about that.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And I know people are deeply affected by their travels
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and it changes them, so as maybe as travelers we
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: can help each other better reintegrate a little bit.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, the first observation
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I have that you're saying, why does it feels if
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: it takes longer, And it's because they've done some studies
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: on it. It's like when Christmas. Do you remember when
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: you were a kid, Christmas, the five days or seven
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: days before Christmas because it was new and novel, seemed
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: to last forever. When you're out there and it's novel
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: and it's new, I think it's sort of kicks into
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: that or clicks into that mentality, which is the brain
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: suddenly becomes very elastic and really begins to take things
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: in and that slows life down. And that's why it's important.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: But I think it's also important for fellow travelers to
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: realize normal life is not like that, and so you
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: just need to be kind to yourself and people around
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: you that just understand life travels. It sounds a bit
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a bit, I guess, but you're just going at a
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: different pace because if you're in a place where you
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: are used to doing things, you're by definition going to
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: go faster. And so just enjoy it for what it is.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And for example, you'll know what the border crossings are
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: like in Western Africa. They are legendarily bureaucratic and slow.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I flew into Heathrow recently. Heathrow used to annoy the
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: hell out of me because it takes forever. What's going on.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I was in and through in fifteen minutes, and suddenly
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I thought, this is this is heaven perspective.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Perspective, respective perspective. Scott having those maybe having those micro
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: adventures locally or with your family, or like you're having
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: this experience vicariously with your daughter. What a net thing
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: for you as her dad to just be so excit
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I did for all these new things that she's going
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: to experience exactly.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And I am because she's gone back to the places
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I went to in nineteen ninety after I went to India.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So she's in Changmi, chang Rai Pi, and I'm seeing
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: what she's doing, and I'm so excited for her because
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I can see in her eyes it's all so new.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And I think for all of us talking about reintegrating
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: back into society, I think sometimes you have to explain
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: these things to other people to make them understand as
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: best you can why it may be a little bit
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: difficult for us to reintegrate. I certainly have found the
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: last two weeks quite hard because I was explaining to
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: people about things that happened on that journey and they
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: looked at me with horror, as if I'd gone into
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: a war zone. And it was like, well, that's just normal.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: But it was normal for me because I was there.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: It's not normal for them at all.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they're filling in all the gaps and the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: experience with things that seem very scary and at times
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: it does feel you know, you feel a little bit
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of anxiety or you feel a little bit of worry
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: about the next border or whatever.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: But the next thing, you know, you're through it.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that I found
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: fascinating about your story, John, and I'd love to I'd
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: love to dig into it a little bit more is
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you've not just been a traveler, but you've actually lived
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: abroad for.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Huge chunks of time.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: And that's something that's actually quite unique in the guests
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: that I've had on the podcast. So, like, tell me
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: how you you've experienced life abroad differently than travel abroad.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So you said, how long did you live in Russia?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Ten years? Yeah, that's that's incredible.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Where did you live? Where did you live in Yeah?
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And I mean I remember when I crossed Russia, you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: on the Road of Bones and everything. I really enjoyed
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Saint Petersburg, but Moscow felt like it felt very foreign
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: to me. It felt very different, you know, just the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: energy of the place felt very very unusual. How did
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you find that you adapted to that? What were some
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of the things that you loved about living in Russia?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So many things Russian culture, and Russian literature is beautiful, truly.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Their architecture, I mean Pushkin is up there with Shakespeare,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: no question. Their architecture is beautiful. Russian people can be
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: very very warm.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once you get to know them a little bit.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Once, once you get to know them, the sense of
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: history is palpable. They do things in a very unusual way.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean I quite like it. Because you'll go to
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a door and it looks very boring and there's nothing
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: very interesting, and you open the door and suddenly it's
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: like the wild it's nightcad. But you've ever seen in
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: your life or you know, it's almost like a Russian
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: doll of life. You find different layers and different layers
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and different layers. Their music, their classical music, it's extraordinary.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I remember going to Saint Petersburg and going to watch
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the valley and listening to this beautiful music. It sort
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of brought tears to my eyes. I love their winters.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe that's not so unusual for you, but
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: you know as a brit having minus thirty, and also
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: how practical they are. You know, some of the things
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I saw were crazy. In ninety seven, I came out
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and there was a Juiguli, which was a little car
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: if you know what it was that it was like
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: the old feats of the fifties.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that one.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you come out and the engine
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: block clearly was not it was frozen. It's minus thirty
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: six and they had they had lit a fire underneath
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the engine to wait, which yes, exactly, And it gets
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: into your soul. Russia. There's the Russian word is Lusha
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: is sold in Russia. And I described Russia as like
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: the hotel California. You could check out any time you like,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: but you could never leave. And unfortunately I have left
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: because of because of the war with Ukraine. But it
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: was never I have never been so happy to go
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: to any country in my life as when I flew
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: into Russia. And I've never been so happy to leave
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: any country. There is that interesting. There is that conflict
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: between a love of something and yet there's problems there,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and yet there's beauty there, and then when you leave, it's, oh,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: thank God for that. But then then the minute you're home,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: you're wanting to go again. So I suppose that's quite
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: a long winded explanation of my life.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I know, I wanted it. I want Yeah, I wanted
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: to understand that. I mean, and how long you spend
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of time in Nigeria as well, which I
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: believe was very helpful for your trip. But yeah, did
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you did you live there as well for long chunks
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: of time traveling in and out.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I was traveling in and out. I mean I must
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: have been there at least thirty thirty five times. I'd
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: also been to Ghana twenty times, so I mean both
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: of those definitely helped. And I have a lot of
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Nigerian friends, so yes.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: It's quite a contrast. I mean, even though Ghana and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Nigeria are fairly close to each other, like just geographically,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: they are very different cultures. I really I did enjoy Nigeria.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I had everyone that I met there was wonderful. It
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: just you know, there's a there's a a like a
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: self imposed chaos that exists in their country, you know
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: where you know, like they're if they're far more chaotic
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: than they need to be. I think that there's a
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: frenetic energy or it comes across as as part you know,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurial but also part sadist, like their traffic in particular.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: But gone is.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Totally the opposite of that. I mean, it's very very
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: clean and efficient, and the driving is totally different and genteel.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: People are quite polite. Yes, I think the Nigerian bit
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: is there's like two hundred million people, but yeah, one
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: hundred and ninety nine million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: nine hundred nine Yeah, which just creates this frenetic energy
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: and willingness to get ahead, whereas the Conan's despite only
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: having Togo and benin between them, Yep, I'm much more gentle.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: They really are.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Approach yeah, exactly.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's what a beautiful country. I mean just
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and so I mean Nigeria as well. I did enjoy it.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: It was fun driving in that country and it was
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: so different than what I expected, as most of these
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: places are. If you dare watch the news to determine
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: where you should travel in the world, we'd never leave.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: You'd be afraid to go to London and I'd be
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: afraid to go to Phoenix. I mean, it's just it's
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: definitely not it's not honest.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: The news is not honest of the experience you feel
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: on the ground.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: What two hundred million people can't be wrong, right, Nigeria.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of people living there and living
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: a normal life, and I agree with you. There is
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: a warmth and sense of humor in Nigeria which I
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: found wonderful, And there was a gentleness and intelligence, not
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: saying that Nigeriagnas is super intelligent. In Ghana and both
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: of those countries I really enjoy, really enjoy spending time in.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Although what I was doing on this it was like,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: let's go particularly across the Niger Delta. We were not
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: hanging around there.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Right, No, it was the same for us, And maybe
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: let's touch a little bit on that, because the one
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: thing I want to make sure that those that are
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: listening deeply understand is that you have traveled around the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: world for large swaths of your life, and you've done
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: it at times at very slow paces. You've done it
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: at times where you were very disconnected, where you were
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: taking a very artistic view of a place. So you
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: happen to have a love for motorsports as well, which
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: is what prompted this idea of breaking a record. So
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: you're not in the business of doing automotive stunts, you're
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: in the business of seeing the world. This just happened
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to be a really interesting challenge. So let's talk about
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: what inspired you to this idea of breaking a world record.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: It's a really deep question, Scott. I mean, on one level, yeah,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: on one level, is that that British daring do of
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: why not? You know, Richard Papp did it? I mean,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: how many years ago was it? Now is nineteen fifty six,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: so you've got a seventy eighty year period, and I thought,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: why not? But why did I really want to do it?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to do it because I think I
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: thought I'd learned something about myself. I thought it would
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: be an antidote to this the world of relentless doom
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: scrolling that we all live in. And I wanted to
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: see what it would be like to follow someone as
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: inspiring as Richard instead and being his footstep. And also
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I've got this funny relationship with Grenadiere. I used to
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: do a lot of work for Ineos, and I thought
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to myself, if someone's got the guts to go and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: build a four by four from scratch, then that merits
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: another brick getting in a car and seeing what it
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: can do. And that those all things came together and
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: it didn't disappoint on any level. I learned more about
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: myself than in that twenty eight day period than I
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: thought possible. The car, I call it a self healing car,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: which is somehow the dashboard is telling me everything is
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: going on, but nothing really is ha ha. And I
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: found out a huge amounts about the continent and how
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: different all of the places are, and it's made me
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: want to go back to a whole bunch of them.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: And in fact, I'm going back to Namibia in three
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: weeks to go and finish off filming for my film
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: of this and to go and take some artistic shots.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: So it's ticked every box. And I the world record
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: was the icing on the cake. When I reflect back
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: on it, was the world record the most important thing. No,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: it's the experience that was the most important thing. But
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: my god, it's good to have got it. It's good
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: to have done it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And I think at times we need a goal post
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: in our life, something to pursue. I've done that in
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: my own travels, but it was actually all of the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: steps along the way that changed me more so than
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: you know, getting to the to that goal post, because
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: then life goalposts do move, don't they even yeah, they.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Did, even if you get even and if you get
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: the record.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: But you know, one of the things that I've noticed
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: about your journey is like you just chose to do
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: something very difficult, and I think human beings it's challenging
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six to do things that are difficult
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: because you don't have to. You have a lot of
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: comfort and modernity, and like you said, you can be
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: on your phone being you know, marginally entertained for hours
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: at a time. So it's actually becoming more and more
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: rare for a human being like yourself to say I'm
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: going to do something not only very difficult, but very risky,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: and I'm putting my reputation on the line and putting
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of finances on the line to do something
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: really hard. Have you found that in your life? Have
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you gone from a series like I'm going to try
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: something really difficult, and how has those actions changed you
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: throughout your life.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I've chosen on a number of occasions to do difficult things,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: opting as a young, callow British person to get on
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: a plane and go to America work behind a bar. Yeah,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: that's very difficult, But then to take all of the
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: money that I'd say, and then just head off to
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: India with a backpack on my back and a bunch
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: of travelers checks in my That was not easy mentally
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: going to Russia. I went to Russia to do a
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: three week firefighting stint in a law firm and I
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: stayed for ten and a half years. Wow, that was difficult. Moved.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I moved twice in major law firms, and you know,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I lived in big law and each of those was
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: a really difficult thing to do, you know. And the
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: last one was Lathan Watkins, which, if you know what
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: that is, a is a US law firm, that's a
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: that's a powerhouse of a place. Challenging myself in that way,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: taking on the photographic challenges that I've taken on and
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: selling and that has been very difficult, But I learned
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: why do I do it? I mean some some some
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: day it's got a look at myself. I said, you're
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: an idiot, Go and sit down and have a cup
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: of tea. But I learn more and I value it more.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: If I do difficult things and I'm drawing it, I
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: because I just feel you live more. I mean the
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: phrase I used at the end of this when I
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: looked at myself in the mirror and I said, John,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: you you trusted yourself and you prove to be worthy.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: And that sounds quite sort of maybe a bit traumatic,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: quite pithy, but you know what I mean, You.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Know what that's right? Absolutely, yeah, no, it's it's honest.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: You know. We I have found that I need to
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: test myself on a regular basis, and it feels good
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: to do that. It feels good to remind ourselves that
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: we can do difficult things.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sixty, right, So this is as I
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: joked to my wife, I'm in the final quarter. So
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I'm determined. Maybe I'm not, Maybe I am, but I
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: had made up my mind that there is no way
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I'm doing anything other than going down fighting rage, rage,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: against the dying of the light. And I I want
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: to do these things because they you find out such
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: a lot about yourself and your friends and your family.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Inherently rewarding to do difficult anything worth worthy in life,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: And I don't think winning the lottery is worthy. Doing
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: something hard at the end of it, I think has
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: real merit. You find out a lot about yourself.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been some great studies on lottery winners. It's
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: something I wouldn't want to sign up for. You also,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: look at even the studies around trust fund kids, of
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: a significant portion of them struggle with acute depression and
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: everything because they means, but they haven't earned them as much.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: And that isn't to say that trust some trust kids
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: haven't figured that all out, but a small percentage of
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: them have figured it out. So it's much more suite
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: of a experience when you've earned it, when you've worked
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: really hard to get there.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you? You know, I mean, you know,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I know this is the podcast where you were Internet me.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I'm interested about you, Scott. I mean, this was the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: hardest thing I've done in probably twenty years. I think,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: what about you? What's the hardest thing you've done and
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: what did you learn from? I mean, I'm sure your
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: viewers know that I'm interested.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Not a week goes by that someone doesn't reach out
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: to ask how they can help support the podcast. We
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: are supported entirely by Overland Journal the magazine. So when
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal print magazine,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you get this beautiful book that comes in five times
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: a year. It also gives you access to our digital
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: archive and it's well over one hundred pages of gorgeous
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: images and detailed testing and adventures from around the globe.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: So if you go to Overland Journal dot com and
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you subscribe to the magazine, use the code overland podcast
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and that'll get you twenty percent off. It's only available
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: to our podcast listeners. We don't advertise it anywhere else,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: and then you help us to maintain that independent, employee
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: owned journalism that we have been famous for, so it
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: allows us to conduct those tests without any advertorial Another
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: way you can help out, I produced a book last
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: year with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding one oh one.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: You could find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: or even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: of travel around the world, all my mistakes and failures,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and the lessons that I've learned in traveling around the globe.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Many of those that you hear on the podcast have
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: been distilled down into print form with great lists and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: beautiful imagery, so you can find that at your local bookstore.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Overlanding one oh one, And thank you all for listening
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and for supporting us so much throughout these years.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I've really talked about that much
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. I mean, bureaucratically, West Africa was the
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: most challenging, but I would I would say running, you know,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: running my business and doing everything that I could to
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: take care of my employees and to maintain our reputation
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of editorial integrity was over twenty something years. That was
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: probably the most difficult thing because everything in the world
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: is fighting against you accomplishing any one of those things.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: But I sacrificed a lot to achieve that too. So
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: I've sacrificed relationships and sacrificed my health in many in
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: many cases, and certainly never took much time off. So
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm not asking for, certainly of the listener or
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you of any sympathy, because those were all things that
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I chose to do. But you know, I think that
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: that doing that was probably the most difficult thing. I
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: would say the thing that took the most determination was
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: crossing all seven continents that you know, it took twenty
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: years of my life to complete that. Yeah, hard things
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: have been a part of my life, and it started
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: in the military, and I still try to do it today.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Well, done. I'm very pleased to hear it.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, John. Let's let's dig in a little
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: bit into the trip, so I think it'll be fun
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to chat about that. So, first of all, you answered
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the question around why Grenadier. I drove Grenadier up Africa,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: up the east coast, east side, and you drove two Grenadier's,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: one a Quartermaster, the other one a wagon down the
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: west coast. Other than it being a British Maide or
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: a British design engineered owned company, what were some of
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: the reasons you chose that vehicle over anything else.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I love the BMW engine. I really liked the suspension
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: on it. It was also very easy to modify, so
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: we had freezers and trays and powerpoints, which meant from
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: a photographic perspective, it was going to be easy to
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: It's going to be very easy to keep everything charged up.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: The Quartermaster I chose so that I could get I
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: had two fuel tanks in the back, so I had
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a two hundred liter and a one hundred liter fuel tank,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: which meant that when we went through places like Guinea,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: we were able to just rely on the good field
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: that we picked up in Dakar. Right, the Quartermaster was
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: extremely utilitarian and useful in that regard. But I just
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: wanted to I mean, I wanted to take a stock
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: car stock cars. I wanted to basically just say it
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: was a relatively modern stock car that I liked the
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: ethos behind it, and I put a few bits on it,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: so I didn't sort of super tune it. I didn't
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: do anything to it apart from put the bash Place
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Magile off road underneath, and I put the long range
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: fuel tanks, and I did do things with Victron, and
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to see if you could do it
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: in a stock car. That's what really attracted me to it.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Is not no really big choices over other people. I
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: just wanted to see if this car, which was I
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: mean the station Wagon was one of the first ones
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: delivered in London. I just wanted to see if a
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: normal bloke could do it in.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: A normal car. That's that's cool, And that was the
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: same motivation. There was the same motivation for me. It's
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: why I reached out to them years ago and say, hey,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you know, I need to finish this last continent and
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I'd love to do it in this brand new car
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that's made for us, made.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: For you and me, John, I mean yes, exactly and
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: clear clearly for Sir Radcliffe as well. I mean, you know,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: he he made a car.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: That he wanted to drive, and I was just curious
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: if it could do it, if it could actually achieve
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: it in stock form, and my modifications were much like yours.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: I cared a little bit more fuel.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I had a rack on top and a way to
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: charge stuff and a way to keep the drinks cold.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: But other than that, it was stock tires, stock everything.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The only thing I did I did get KO three's.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I got sponsored by Bee of Goodridge, and when I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: was up in the North Cap, I did ask and
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Knockian presided tires because it was in March or end
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: of February. That was sheet ice. Yeah, so you studying tires,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: but I didn't consider that really upgrading anything. The only
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: other thing I did upgrade was the rear shocks on
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: the I still use the same brand as they have
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: on the Grenadier, but it was slightly heavier because the
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: three hundred liters of fuel. It was really beginning to
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: hit on the bump stop. Sure, but I didn't really
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: do much else because it goes back to the same
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: thing I think a normal person if people say that
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: these are cars that can go to these places, let's
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: go test.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: It, yeah, and they see if they do it, and
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: they do it. Yeah, it was I mean I drove
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: that whole East Africa route and I never had a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: single failure with the Granadeer. It's not to say that
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: they can't have problems or mechanical device, you know, just
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: like like like any other But oh, that's that's cool
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to know kind of what motivated you because so many
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: people would take you know, they would take a land
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: cruiser or something like that. I think it's kind of
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: fun to try something new different.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the second one did break down sixteen
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: sixty kilometers from the cape. It was just unlucky. And
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: we then because we wanted to create three records. I
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: don't know if you know that one of them is
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the fastest. The second is it's the first time, to
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: my knowledge at least, it's been done with a trailer
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: on the back. So we took a brooder at the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: XP trailer four all the way through, and we wanted
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: to do it in a convoy to do two cars,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: because I don't think two cars have been done before.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: The quartermaster gave up simply the radiator got split. Could
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: happen to anyone, Yeah, sure, And so we got it
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: repaired and then I took it back, so I still
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: did that. The only other thing that really failed the wagon,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: the air conditioning failed in Nigeria before Nigeria.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Before Equatorial Africa.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And we went through Guinea at plus forty eight with
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: no air conditioning in one car. But that was our
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: stupid choice we chose not It was a very simple fix.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: We just thought we'd be fine, and we got it
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: fixed in Lagos. But you know, that could happen to anyone.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I don't you know. I don't have a problem admitting
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: that there were a couple of errors, but ultimately it
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: didn't stop us doing what we wanted to do. And
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: that was the car that made it all the way.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And it was one of the first gens, so it
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: was the first one delivered in Chiswick in London. So
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the one that people said there were lots of problems
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah blah blah, it made it.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Do you know which which unit number it is?
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: The wagon? You know?
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: But I don't know I could find out, but I
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: know it's one.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Of the just for curiosity, because I think mine was
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: number three hundred and seventy two off the line very early,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: so these are very early cars. But yeah, I mean
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: they just they do a good job of it. You know,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: they're safe to drive, they got plenty of power. I mean,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: for those that are listening to help fill in the
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: gap on why you had to carry extra fuel, there
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: are parts of Africa where you can't get ultralosal for diesel,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: or you can't get high quality diesel. And you had
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: two diesel cars, so you needed to have a lot
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: more fuel to get through those regions where good fuel
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: wasn't available.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Correct, I mean there was. I think we we thought
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: that we had up to one thousand kilometers each car
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: with that amount fuel, which meant that we could look
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: out for total yeah, or whatever else it might be
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: station that goes through, particularly through frankfone Africa, to avoid
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: those places where it's like jelly.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, it's not much fun.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I that that was the reason why we
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: went with three hundred liters plus. We had another three
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Jerry cans for twenty leads, so we had three hundred
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: and sixty plus the ninety in each car, so you
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: work it out for yourself.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Fine, the Toyotas that we drove down West Africa, we
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: had about six hundred and six hundred to seven hundred
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: kilometers of range in each car and it was enough.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: It was, I mean in Guinea it was a real
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: problem because there was there just wasn't fuel in a
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: lot of the stations. So the fact that you had
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: so much on board was a good car.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: But you went to see the film and see the
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: bump stops us going through Guinea because it was full
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: and we were going through. We didn't do the same
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: road as you. We went on. I think it was
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: a much rougher road which is took and we scraped
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: up all the bottom of the underguard. But you could
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: see the car was on the bump stops going up
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: through these moguls.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Man, those those roads were rough.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: They were definitely the roughest roads in all of West Africa.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I mean it was. And to see that, you know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of course we're in you know, four drives with all
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: the right gear and everything else, and then you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: here's somebody comes along in a front wheel drive car
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: with three hundred pounds strap to the roof and then
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: here comes a semi and they're all trying to do
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: the same road we are. It's insane, insanity.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we're seeing those most cyclists, right, yeah, I mean,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: how on earth they don't, But I presume they must
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: have so many accidents. But this goes back to my inspiration.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Richard pap did this on a two wheel drive twenty
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: five horse crower family saloon, amazing okay, with no air conditioning,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: and he did it crossing the Sahara in August, and
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: he nearly died because he he what he was taking.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: You know, Ben's a dream to keep himself awake. And
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I think it got too much because he was a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: decorated war hero. He won the Military Cross, which is
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: it's not there, it's not your Medal of Valor, but
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: but it's sort of like the one below our Victoria Cross.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: So and he just drove off into the desert twenty miles,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: came out bapsed. He put one of his wing mirrors
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: on the top of the sand dune in the hope
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: that someone would see the reflection, and they did. You know,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: people look at me and go crumbs. You drove across Africa,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and I thought, hang on, I went in a nice
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: modern four by four. Richard Papp did it in a
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: twenty five horse bad two wheel drive family saloon with
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: no garment, no starlink, no satellite phone, large portions of
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: it on his own. They're the real heroes.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Like you said, perspective. So it's important and we also
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: we can't feel bad about the fact that we live
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenties. Just is what it is. But we
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: get to have our own version of that adventure, which
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you certainly completed. So you drove from the UK up
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: to nord cap which is and is that when the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: official start happens? And how does that How does that
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: get recorded? Do you call someone or is there like
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: a FaceTime or how there is they recorded?
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: There isn't really a recording because it's not done through
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: the Guinness Book of Records. Because there are so many
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: different ways of doing it, and if you look at
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: the way people have done it, Richard went almost straight down. Yeah,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: if you try to do that now you go through MARLEI. Yeah,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: that's that's a big no.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: No. Yeah.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: The others that have done it have gone round the
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: East coast because it's quicker, and they went through some
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: of them went through the Middle.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: East, Yeah, through Saudi and everything.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Sure, and some of those they took flights over the
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: bits that were a bit difficult. Okay, sure, I mean
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: there are there are ones we've done it in ten days,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: but they flew over somewhere, so it's not quite the
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: same thing. But I've got huge amount admiration. But I
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: don't think anyone has ever done our particular route, which
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: is really hugging the coast in West Africa to go down.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: And how did I record it. I had a film
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: crew recording it. I had it done on Garmin. I
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: also had it done on another form of GPX, and
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: so I know I can show exactly what I did
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and how I did it, and I know that time
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: is quicker than the other time, so we're in the
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: process of verification. But I don't see that as a
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: problem because I had a film crew at the end,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I had a film crew at the beginning, and I've
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: got Garmin all the way through, so I know it's
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: twenty eight days, seven hours and a few minutes.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Well, and you had a whole group of people, so
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: there's there's you know, many witnesses to the accomplishment. So yeah,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: met with yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: And you've seen some of the stuff on Instagram as well.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: You can't make up some of the stuff you're.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Seeing well, and you and you and I were communicating
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the entire time. I mean, yeah, you know, this is
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: kind of a fun part of the story. But Sam
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: from Enios reached out to me months and months ago
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, these guys are planning this amazing trip.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: We know you just completed East and West Africa. Could
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you just see if they need any help? So we hopped.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: We did quite a few phone calls together.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: We did, we.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Did, and they were all incredibly helpful, and you shared
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: some of your roots, which helped me plan what we
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: were going to do and in particular informed me of
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: our strategy on fuel. So it was really really helpful
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: that we I find this community incredibly generous. People don't
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: seem to have in the large measure, there are some,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: but in large measure people are very generous and they
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: just say go you and I would do the same.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Someone came up to me and said, how would you
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: do I would definitely have a view if I were
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: to do this again. I know that I could me
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: do this in a way where I could improve, but
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: those board across things man.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, well, I mean and for me, every time
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: we got to chat or I got to send you
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: some information or like even helping with the insurance stuff
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: or whatever else.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, for me, it was a total joy.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like, I know what these guys are
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: about to do, and any way that I can help
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: them is just is just it's just helping a fellow adventure.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: No exactly, but it was very much appreciated, it really
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: really was. And it just made it easier. But nothing
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: made the board across is easier.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: No, no, But I loved the fact that we got
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: to we got to, you know, on WhatsApp, we're you know,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: go pinging back and forth and you know, giving each
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: other some updates and giving you some encouragement along the way.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was really it was really neat for
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: me to be able to follow along and to be
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: able to witness you working through those challenges and and
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: all of that. So let's talk about what was the
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: high point of the trip other than the end. I mean,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: of course the end is always a high point, but
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: what was what was that emotional high point along the journey?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I think the start because the Nord Cap for those
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: who've not been to Norway, is very raw and wild.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: But we started on a day where there wasn't a
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: cloud in the sky, wow, bright blue. It snowed lightly overnight,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: so everything was covered in this beautiful soft snow and
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: the sense of it, you know, you're completely pumped up.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Everyone was aline, no one was tired, and it's just
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: like this is going to be the adventure of a lifetime.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: So that that really is up there in terms of
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: being on the trip itself. Guinea was very It has
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: a very special place in my heart because it's so
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: remote and you go up those endless it feels like
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: those hills you're just going down and up and down,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: and you're you're sort of snaking backwards and forwards, and
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: going into those villages is where the people clearly had
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: not seen anything like this, and that sense of wonder
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: and smiling.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: That's interesting that you had that experience because that was
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: the same that we experienced in our team. Was just
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: the warmth. Yeah, the Guineaan people, I mean we camped
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: out near this mesa, I mean this little village. They
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: all came out and like we had an extra soccer
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: ball and just to see. Like we actually handed it
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to the to the chief of the village because it's
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: that's a good that's a good person to give it to.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: His eyes and his smile lit up like he was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: seven years old again. And it was. It's a very
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: special country, very poor, very poor infrastructure. But it was
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: one of the highlights of the trip for me too.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think anyone who is interested should go
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: there soon because I don't know if you saw it,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: but the roads are being developed, I think largely by
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: the Chinese. Yes, and you'll get it. You're starting to
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: see these huge roads being built. And because the mineral
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: resources iron, there's so much red in the soil and
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: it's so green. It's like these vivid gashes going through
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: the jungle. And you know, because there's a Cymandu project,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: which is enormous iron ore project. I know in three
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: to five years time, what we experienced will be very
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: difficult to.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Find even in the Congo. Wasn't that I mean that road?
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I told you I was trying
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: to give you a little bit of a little bit
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: of hope, but I told you I think that you
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: could write a skateboard down it which is close to
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the truth. It's close.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I think there's a bit of an
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: artistic license, Scott.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: But I couldn't I couldn't believe that road across the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Congo and it was all to extract those giant logs,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: those hardwood logs.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, but you know, people need to get
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: out there to see it and document it as it
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: is now. And I'm not against development. You know, it
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: will probably improved the lives of a lot of people.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: You know, they are very very poor, some of those people,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: but I'm not sure that we will get the same
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: warm for the children in particular, they're just lovely in Guinea.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, will probably make it'll probably make them more healthy,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: they will have more opportunity. I don't know that it
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: will make them any happier. I've certainly like in Malawi.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I just remember in some of those villages, very poor.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: But I've never seen happier people in my life. So
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that's the challenge with all of that. Let's talk about
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: the low point for you. What was I mean, I
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: know you had some real challenges with the DRC and
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: you were like faced with are you going to make
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: it or not? What was what was that real low
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: point for you.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: The real low point was in a place called Lebango.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Up to then, I had steadfastly refused to acknowledge there's
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: even any possibility that we wouldn't succeed. But we'd driven
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: all day to get to this place in Angola. We
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: only had three days left. As we drove into leave Ango,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: there was a policeman surrounded by young men on a
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: motorcycle and suddenly the policeman pulled out of pistols started
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: shooting it in the air. And that was real to
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: get these people off in and it was really quite
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: a rough entry, you know, there's a little bit of
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: it was a bit sketchy. And we found a hotel
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: and I realized we had four thousand pounds to do
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: in about three days, and I just reflected on what
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: the roads were like and my team. The team were
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: really really tired and quite fed up. You know, three
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: days out, you can imagine we've been on the road
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: for twenty six days. Driving at night was not seen
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: as something that people half the team wanted to do,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: but we were doing it. We were skipping meals, so
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: people were hungry, they were tired. I think they were
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: a little bit scared, maybe not scared, but nervous. And
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: I went to bed that night. I pulled in, I
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: made the decision that we should get into bed at
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: half past nine, that we found a hotel and I
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: just I dictated, because dictated something every night, and I
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: can just remember thinking, just no way. I mean, it's
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: just too hard. We've still got to get through the
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Angolan border, which for a country that's quite advanced in
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: some ways, getting into Angola was really hard. I don't
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: know if it was for you, but it was really challenging,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I thought, But it gets right, Yeah, exactly three four hours,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: get out of that, get into Namibia, get out of
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Namibia into South Africa and then dry four thousand quometers
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm just doing the math right, three days, seventy
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: two hours probably that was of that would be nearly
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: ten hours of border crossings. That sixty two hours. How
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: are we going to do that? And we're just about
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: to sleep for six hours, so you know, I just thought,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: there's no way we're going to make it. And there's
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: that famous scene in Lord of the Rings when I
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: think it's was Samwai says, the darkest moment is always
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: before the dawn, and that was my moment where I thought,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: we have spent so much time, effort and money on
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: a challenge and I just don't think we're going to
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: make it. And I think I texted you around that time. Yeah,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I remember, Yeah, I really didn't think it'd make it.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And yet somehow from then on in it felt like
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: we were going downhill. And we drove straight from there
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: forty odd hours and we made it for five hours
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: to spare. But that was my worst moment, without question.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Fortunately the roads get so much better towards the end,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: and the border crossings get to be, you know, fifteen
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: to twenty minutes.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, South Africa, Yeah, exactly, exactly. That was my
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: worst moment. And another one was the team getting them
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: to move. Some of the team members were in Lagos.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: We had to have a conversation because it just worked
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: out there was no way that we could do this
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: unless we did some night driving, and I appreciate my
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: driving was not optimal, so we had to have quite
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: a hard conversation there about that, which was exacerbated by
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: the fact that as I crossed the ben into Nigeria border,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I had lost my passport, so I didn't even know
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: whether or not I was going to continue, whether or
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: not I'd refused my second passport by to the DRC
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: or fly to somewhere else and then join them a
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: bit later, right, which would have meant that probably my
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: my record or my partner, it was not going to work.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: So having those conversations with people who are understandable, I mean,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: driving at night is not a lot fun in Africa
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: at times.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that will think it's they think it's about
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: like the Bandidos or whatever, and it's not. It's it's
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: just the animals on the road. You know, people get
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: drunk and driving on the road, the road conditions, the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: chance of an accident, you know, it is quite dangerous
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: to drive at night.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and people just there are lots of people that
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: are just wandering down the side of the road. But
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: my philosophy was drive to the road conditions. Even if
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you're doingly doing forty promises and now that's still forty
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: cromsters more than you were doing just sleep yeap. So
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: they're my two they are my two lowest moments, which
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: I don't mind.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: How did you how did you overcome the passport problem?
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I did an interview. At eleven pm the day before
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: we were supposed to leave. I was pretty down in
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: the mouth, as we say in England, and suddenly got
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: a phone call from the security at Rendeva, which is
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: the place where I was staying at Laro City, just
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: outside Legos, and they said, we found it. Wow, we
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: found it. And I went what And he sent me
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: a photo on his phone and some kind hearted citizen
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: it had dropped on the road and had handed it
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: to the police. Oh my gosh, complete luck that. And
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: I was due to leave at five a m. The
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: following morning. On the team were and I was going
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: to have to just stay there, and I you know,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: you could imagine. We'd had the cars cleaned, we sorted
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: out the air conditioning, they loaded us up with food.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: We were ready to go, and I knew I couldn't
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: join them, And it meant that also I could not
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: be I could not claim to be part of the
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: team that broke the record because I would have not
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: been part of.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: This, right man, What a moment.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: That's incredible, That is so incredible.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it comes back to you know the kindness of others.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, because you know they could have just kept it
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: or just thrown it away, but they took the time
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: and the effort on the Benning, Nigeria border to pick
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: up my passport give it to the authorities. And the
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: authorities knew the security people are a Lara City and
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: they called me. And then it was still really hard
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: for them because Alara City is still quite a long
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: way from the Benning, Nigeria border, so they had to
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: get in a car, a level high tail it to
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: the border, pick it up and then get it back
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: to me five am. And they made it by about
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: You know, kindness of people in Nigeria that they adopted
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: this record as rendeavor, and the people at Lara City
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: they adopted it as if it was their own. And
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: from there on in they were texting me all the
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: time every country. How are you geting on? Just reinforces
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: your belief that in generally, human nature is really really good.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: It's incredible.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's the governments that are screwed up, no
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: question about that.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Governments and politicians.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people are general people are generally good. What an
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: incredible accomplishment, John, I'm so proud of you and the team.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Let's talk through your team members a little bit. Let's
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: let's who is along the journey with you.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Toby, who is one of the co owners of Bruder.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, spend your time with him.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah that he is the most irritating man in the world.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: And yeah, because how can you be six 't seven?
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Bren Williams handsome, incredibly capable and just so nice. Really
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: totally every time I see you, I just feel inadequate
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: on every level.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he's Yeah, he is definitely a handsome guy.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: And what a neat what a neat human being, and
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: what a neat product too. I mean, the Brewder trailers
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: are really awesome. And it looked like it survived the
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: trip just fine.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: It was had no issues at all despite doing all
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: of that through all of those temperatures, apart from one
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: thing on the breaks which we break line which we fixed,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: so that was really good. We had Dave from Maker.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: If you know what Maker is, they're specialists in doing
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: land rovers. Daintily is the owner of Maker, and I
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: know the reason why I know him is because I've
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: had a land rover with him being developed for a
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: long time. And Dave is an extwell marine. He mechanic
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: spent time in Afghanistan. But what a great bloke. He
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: is a lot. Yeah, he's super really really good. And
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: then we had Matt who is the security and logistics guy.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: He also comes from the Armed Services.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I interacted with him a little bit, Yeah for.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah exactly. And then Phil Keating, who is medic
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: extremely experienced in relation to particularly very traffic accidents, did
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: great training for us and taught us a lot. He
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: was really good. And then our cameraman who was actually
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: recommended by Innios because he lives in Botswana, Charlie Summers. Okay,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: yeah exactly, and we thought he should come along because
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: of his experience of Africa and he's a very very good,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: very competent camera That was That was the Band of six. No.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: I love that. That's that's so great. And let's talk
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit about what can people expect. So it
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: sounds like that there's a film coming together. Obviously, we're
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: so grateful that you spent the time to be on
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: the podcast with us today. When can people find out
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: more information or when can they see the film?
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Well, you can go on Instagram right now and see
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: the journey which is on always dot look dot twice
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: or you can follow me on LinkedIn. Albeit at the
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: moment LinkedIn is not is not telling you the full
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: story because I'm still doing it. But the film will
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: come out in the autumn.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: I think we've still got to do the Namibia part.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: So Toby is flying back in and I'm going back
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: out with the cars with a guide and my wife,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: and we're going to go through the Skeleton Coast and
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to show people how I take my photos,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: so with a helicopter and maybe a plane and also
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: a bit more artistic. But once we get that in
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: the can, the idea is to get this out in
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: the autumn. There'll be regular updates on my website twice
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: dock and hopefully you and I can have a chat
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: about it then, because I hope it's supposed to be
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: fatial length, ninety minutes talking about the prep, the journey,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: the artistic merit and then how you mix all that up,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: so it should be really quite good. And it's been
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: shot on kfilm, so it should be really high definition.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure it'll be incredible. Hopefully, when you get
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: to the Skeleton Coast you can get that permit to
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: get up to the Edward Booleen that ship that is
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: kind of in the sand dunes. It was. That was
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: one of the most surreal and stunning experiences in all
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: of my travels.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I have a photo of that which
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: I took. It's on the website. I was actually on
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: a plane coming in from the sea and it looks
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: like there's a wake of sand at the back. I
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: agree with you that you know that it's two hundred
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: meters inland, as you know, right, and yet there's you
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: can still define the shape of the ship even though
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: it is. Wasn't it shipwrecked around the time of the
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: First World War?
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like early nineteen hundreds.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, exactly. So I'm hoping we'll get up to
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: that and pass it in the cars and you'll have
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: the grenadiers going past and hopefully, well that's so great.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: It'll be fun. It'll be fun, but we'll have a
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: good laugh with it.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a wonderful journey. John, Thank you again
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: for all of the time and the inspiration you're getting
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: out and you're doing the adventure that inspires others to
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: go see the world. Your photographs are absolutely beautiful, so
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: please everyone that's listening. Go check out always loook twice
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: dot com, see that John's images, follow him on Instagram,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: and learn more about his journey and his story. But again,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: thanks for being on the podcast.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: And lastly, thank you Scott for inspiring me to get
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: out there. And I have to tell you the darkest
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: moment before the dawn, you texted me and you picked
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: me up when I was literally on the floor. So
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I am very very grateful. So thank you.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're most welcome, my friend, and we thank you
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: all for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.