Latest / Sid & Friends In The Morning / Joe Tacopina | Defense Attorney Offers Legal Insight Into Cornell University Sexual Assault Case

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Joe Tacopina | Defense Attorney Offers Legal Insight Into Cornell University Sexual Assault Case · Sid & Friends In The Morning

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The great Joseph Takapina, and a lot of my listeners
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have reached out to the show today, Joseph, to say
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: they can't wait to hear from you because you're an attorney.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: If you've not been listening, I made it very clear
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  Speaker 1: this morning. I'm not giving these boys at Cornell University
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the electric chair yet. I don't know enough. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know enough. But as a father of a daughter, you
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: are as well. You've got two beautiful grandsons in England, okay?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: If you're telling me by the second or the third
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  Speaker 1: or the fourth guy out of seven, didn't realize, especially
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  Speaker 1: if she couldn't move, if she was laying there like
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  Speaker 1: a dead body, they didn't realize what they were doing
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  Speaker 1: wasn't morally reprehensible. Then forget about the criminal aspect. And
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  Speaker 1: these guys really, really are sick people. So again, criminally,
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  Speaker 1: you'll talk about that. I won't. But as a father
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  Speaker 1: of a daughter and a son, my beautiful son, what
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  Speaker 1: those boys did, whether criminal or not, was disgusting.
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  Speaker 2: Are you going to argue that?
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  Speaker 1: Never.
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  Speaker 2: I'll argue that you're right. Never argue against that. It's
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  Speaker 2: their cowards. They're animals. I mean, anyone who could do that.
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  Speaker 2: to a young lady in a state of quasi-incapacitation, because
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  Speaker 2: there's no question, look, there's an issue, she consented to
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  Speaker 2: have sex with the first two guys, fine, whatever. That
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  Speaker 2: does not then say anyone else who wants to come
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  Speaker 2: on in and join, the free-for-all gets to come in.
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  Speaker 2: Each and every individual act after that, that is not
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  Speaker 2: consented to. And by the way, if she is so
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  Speaker 2: intoxicated or so inebriated, so unable to grant consent, They
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  Speaker 2: don't just need to say no. It is no. And therefore,
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  Speaker 2: you're committing a crime. So, look, the thing that bothers
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  Speaker 2: me is that this young woman should not need a
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  Speaker 2: national media campaign to get a thorough criminal investigation, right?
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  Speaker 2: The question is simple. What did you know, investigators? When
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  Speaker 2: did you know it? And what did you actually investigate?
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  Speaker 2: So it is, you know, and again, consent to one encounter, Sid,
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  Speaker 2: is not consent to everyone who walks in the room thereafter.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what it seems like you have here. And
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  Speaker 2: I base that on one thing, some irrefutable evidence, a
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  Speaker 2: group text message, right? The one that talked about, you know,
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  Speaker 2: free whatever.
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  Speaker 1: Free sex. Free sex, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Free sex. Let's put it that way. Free sex. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, is it still open? Yes. Come on in. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it's like. First of all, this is Cornell University.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think you and I would have gotten into
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  Speaker 2: Cornell University.
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  Speaker 1: No chance.
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  Speaker 2: It's an Ivy League school, right? You would think, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: they act like they're in community college, these idiots. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: how stupid do you have to be to memorialize something
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  Speaker 2: like that? Even just the level of raw stupidity, repulsive unintelligence, right?
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  Speaker 2: It's horrific. But we now have to do an investigation,
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  Speaker 2: a real investigation. Now, of course, the problem with doing
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  Speaker 2: a real investigation is I represent the President Trump, so
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  Speaker 2: I know Letitia James. I know firsthand that she has
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  Speaker 2: absolutely no credibility, especially when it comes to high-profile cases
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  Speaker 2: where she has a political agenda. Of all the people
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  Speaker 2: in the world that Governor Hochul needed to appoint, if
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  Speaker 2: she needed to appoint a special prosecutor, Why would it
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  Speaker 2: be Letitia James?
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  Speaker 1: Because they're great buddies. Because they're great friends. And Letitia's
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  Speaker 1: running against my friend Sir Ritter. That's why.
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  Speaker 2: Except here's the problem. Letitia James has never, never... prosecuted
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  Speaker 2: a criminal case before she was attorney general, and she's
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  Speaker 2: prosecuted a few. Attorney general's main job is not ever
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  Speaker 2: and rarely do you see AG's offices prosecuting criminal cases,
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  Speaker 2: especially of this magnitude. This belongs to a district attorney's office.
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  Speaker 2: I've never seen an AG prosecute rape charges, but yet
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  Speaker 2: she's now appointed special prosecutor. She has no experience to
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  Speaker 2: do these type of cases. And more importantly, she's a
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  Speaker 2: political hack. So, you know, Hochul says she wants to
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  Speaker 2: restore public confidence, right? So choosing a prosecutor whose impartiality
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  Speaker 2: so many people question is really a poor way to
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  Speaker 2: achieve it.
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  Speaker 1: Well said. Oh, that is a great job, Joe Takapina.
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  Speaker 1: So well said. So from your standpoint, again, being the
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  Speaker 1: best defense attorney in the world, these cases, like we
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  Speaker 1: know the Duke case, it turned out the guys were
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  Speaker 1: not guilty, Virginia. Yeah. Right. Do you think then that
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  Speaker 1: And let me say it again. Criminally, these kids may
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  Speaker 1: be innocent. Morally, they should be ashamed of themselves, every
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  Speaker 1: one of them, and their parents should kick their asses.
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  Speaker 1: But do you think, from an attorney standpoint, this specific case,
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  Speaker 1: it's easier to prove the defense or the prosecution?
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  Speaker 2: Well, here's what I think. Now that we have Letitia
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  Speaker 2: James involved... I can tell you right now that it's
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  Speaker 2: now more likely than not there'll be criminal charges, okay?
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  Speaker 2: You know, what she should do is judge the evidence
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  Speaker 2: as she gathers it, expand herself for investigation, the decisions
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  Speaker 2: she makes need to be consistent with the evidence and
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  Speaker 2: the law. You know, honestly, her public promises, that little
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  Speaker 2: statement she made, mean absolutely nothing to me. And it
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  Speaker 2: shouldn't mean anything to anyone because we've seen what she's done.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a woman who before she came
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  Speaker 2: into office as attorney general said she was going to
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  Speaker 2: prosecute Trump. And I ask the question again, how did
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  Speaker 2: she know? How did she know she was a prosecutor?
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  Speaker 2: She was a public citizen, a private citizen. She was
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  Speaker 2: not an attorney general. She didn't have access to subpoena
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  Speaker 2: power and all these records. But it didn't matter. She
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  Speaker 2: made the stupidest statement I've ever heard, which is the
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  Speaker 2: most revealing about her abilities, her character, and her lack
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  Speaker 2: of impartialness. I'm going to prosecute Trump before she was 18. So,
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  Speaker 2: you know, this woman deserves answers. She really does, this
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  Speaker 2: young woman. But also everyone accused deserves due process, right?
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  Speaker 2: And I just don't trust Hochul and James to keep
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  Speaker 2: politics out of that equation. And that's sad because this
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  Speaker 2: case really has to be investigated in a way that
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  Speaker 2: is free from pressure, free from media pressure, free from
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  Speaker 2: outside biases, and free from any political nonsense that we're
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  Speaker 2: going to have. And do you believe.
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  Speaker 1: Joseph, that this poor girl... They released her name? How
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  Speaker 1: does that happen?
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  Speaker 2: You know, that's a really, really good question, Sid, because
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  Speaker 2: the law says it's not supposed to happen. And, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I'd like to know who's responsible for that leak. But,
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  Speaker 2: you know, look, she filed a lawsuit, right? And, you know,
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  Speaker 2: she filed it on Jane Doe. But, you know, once
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  Speaker 2: you do that, once you go down that road, you
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  Speaker 2: do open up the door. I mean, look, So she
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  Speaker 2: should have gone to the police, which she did. She
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  Speaker 2: went to the university police. Right. Which, you know, investigated.
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  Speaker 2: Apparently there were some inconsistent statements. But one thing she said,
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  Speaker 2: according to that transcript that I've read, is that I
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  Speaker 2: was raped, period. So once someone says that, you're duty
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  Speaker 2: bound to investigate it. By the way, because she said it,
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  Speaker 2: it also doesn't mean it's true. Right. I mean, I've
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  Speaker 2: had a lot of cases where, you know. People on
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  Speaker 2: the other side, the accused, have been falsely accused.
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  Speaker 1: Of course.
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  Speaker 2: Of course.
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  Speaker 1: We had it with Duke.
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  Speaker 2: It's horrific, right?
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  Speaker 1: We had it with Duke, with the Duke lacrosse team.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Of course.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So how about the one, what's the cop that Thornton
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  Speaker 2: was involved in? Remember that, Tawana Broly?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: You know, that was a woman who absolutely just made
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  Speaker 2: up and destroyed the life of a police officer completely
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  Speaker 2: by making up a false allegation. So you have to
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  Speaker 2: be careful with these type of cases. And it just
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  Speaker 2: demands a prosecutor's independence inspires trust. And this is the
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  Speaker 2: one that Kathy Hochul picked. I mean, she's been indicted
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  Speaker 2: as prosecutor. She's been accused of playing all sorts of
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  Speaker 2: political games. She seems to be highly incompetent, especially in
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  Speaker 2: the criminal arena. And she's someone with a political agenda.
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  Speaker 2: That's the wrong person.
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  Speaker 1: Wrong person.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: A hundred percent. Oh, shot. Yeah. So now, but the defense, look,
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  Speaker 1: let's make it as simple as possible because it gets
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  Speaker 1: very detailed. These cases, you know, if she was incapacitated, okay.
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  Speaker 1: She claims she was forced to do drugs, forced to drink.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. I, I went to rehab twice. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not proud of it, but forced to do drugs and
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  Speaker 1: forced to drink sounds like a bit much, but either way,
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  Speaker 1: When she ends up in a state where she really
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  Speaker 1: can't fight back or defend herself or even think properly,
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  Speaker 1: if the defense is able to prove that she was
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  Speaker 1: incapacitated at that point, in my opinion, that makes it
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  Speaker 1: a very long day for the prosecution, no?
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  Speaker 2: No. To the contrary, actually said legally, that's that's to
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  Speaker 2: the contrary. Wow. The defense would never want to prove
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  Speaker 2: she's incapacitated because once someone is incapacitated, they are no
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  Speaker 2: longer legally able to give consent. OK, so if you're incapacitated,
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  Speaker 2: you blacked out or you and you can't give consent,
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  Speaker 2: you can if someone then has sex with you, it's
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  Speaker 2: called rape.
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  Speaker 1: No, right. I actually mixed up defense and prosecution. Right,
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  Speaker 1: I'm saying that the girls' attorneys, if they can prove
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  Speaker 1: she was incapacitated, and what's the word I'm looking for here?
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  Speaker 2: Incapacitated.
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  Speaker 1: Then, right, then their case is strong.
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  Speaker 2: Very strong. I mean, that's where this is going to
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  Speaker 2: fall on, right? I mean, I don't think this is not,
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  Speaker 2: I don't see an allegation where someone dragged her in
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  Speaker 2: a closet and forced her to have sex, right? This
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  Speaker 2: is about, she started out, she was a little banged
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  Speaker 2: up to begin with, started out with a consensual, you know,
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  Speaker 2: encounter with one or two guys, maybe. And then, you know,
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  Speaker 2: those guys thought it would be really funny to let
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  Speaker 2: everybody in the fraternity, you know, come inside and have fun.
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  Speaker 2: That's One, you're right, it's morally reprehensible. I mean, those
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  Speaker 2: parents should be disgustingly ashamed, and those kids should have
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  Speaker 2: their teeth knocked out. Putting that aside, putting that aside,
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  Speaker 2: if you see that someone is now becoming out of it,
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  Speaker 2: either physically, mentally exhausted, and can't really articulate, or is drunk,
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  Speaker 2: or is passing out, you need to run away. Tell
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  Speaker 2: that to all your listeners' sons. If anyone exhibits any
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  Speaker 2: sign of intoxication, The safe route here, guys, is bye-bye.
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  Speaker 2: Just leave.
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  Speaker 1: Go the other way.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly right. Because you then could later be accused of
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  Speaker 2: not getting consent because consent is not capable of being
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  Speaker 2: given by someone who's incapacitated. Really? That simple? So if
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  Speaker 2: they can prove that, it's over.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there are videos. And also, you mentioned the
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  Speaker 1: Snapchat conversation where the guys were pretty much saying that
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  Speaker 1: Free sex, go in there, do your thing. So it
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  Speaker 1: does seem to be, I don't know how much of
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  Speaker 1: that stuff is admissible. You know better than me.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, no, it's completely admissible. I mean, that stuff is admissible.
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  Speaker 2: Here's what's going to, you know, be really the factor
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  Speaker 2: that that turns on. It's going to turn on who
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  Speaker 2: got it. who read it, who acted on it, what
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  Speaker 2: they actually did. So, you know, you have to authenticate it.
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  Speaker 2: You have to establish who sent it. You have to
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  Speaker 2: establish who received it and who responded to it and
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  Speaker 2: what each person did afterwards. You have to follow the
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  Speaker 2: evidence individually against each one of these guys. That's what
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  Speaker 2: you do with that. First of all, let's make sure
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  Speaker 2: it's real, right? You have to authenticate it. And so,
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  Speaker 2: you know, an independent prosecutor needs the full recordings, the
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  Speaker 2: full transcripts, all these messages and witness accounts, not just
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  Speaker 2: a summary, not just a summary of what's out there.
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  Speaker 2: And again, you know, when I heard Letitia James, my
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  Speaker 2: heart dropped a little bit from both sides because I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: don't know really the truth at bottom. I just don't.
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  Speaker 2: I don't like those messages. It's disgusting. Okay. And like
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  Speaker 2: you said, forget criminality, morally reprehensible, but putting that aside
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  Speaker 2: and I don't know, you know, we weren't there. So
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: we have to let the investigation run its course. Of course.
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  Speaker 2: A fact finder who hears all the evidence, that's called
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  Speaker 2: a jury normally, you know, make a determination as to
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  Speaker 2: what happened. You know, until then, it's hard to say,
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  Speaker 2: but it's just, some of the stuff was really, really bad. Gross.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's bad, I suppose. Chat was gross.
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  Speaker 2: A girl that clearly would be raped, by the way.
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  Speaker 2: If someone just walked in a room and whipped it
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  Speaker 2: out and had sex with someone who was there lying there,
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  Speaker 2: that's rape.
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  Speaker 1: That's rape, bottom line.
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  Speaker 2: Right. There's no consent. That's it. Period.
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  Speaker 1: That's rape. I do want to ask you one thing
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  Speaker 1: about Lindsay Clancy, Tack. Her attorneys made a motion for acquittal. Shocker, shocker,
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  Speaker 1: it was denied, but they tried it. I guess you
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: got to try everything, right?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. I mean, well, let's try everything within reason.
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  Speaker 2: You don't want to look like a fool or an idiot,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and you don't want to do something that's not going
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: to only be successful but could actually hurt your cause
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and your credibility, right? I mean, a motion for a
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: new trial is standard. That's not something that, you know,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: we as lawyers, when we make it, we don't make
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: it thinking this is going to be it, we're going
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: to win, you know, it's going to be. No, of
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  Speaker 2: course not. But, you know, the judge yesterday, Judge Sullivan,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: denied the defense's request for a not guilty finding, you know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: ruling that prosecutors presented sufficient evidence. for a jury to
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: decide guilt and criminal responsibility. So, you know, the murder
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: charge should remain pending. That's not a surprise. What would
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: have been a shock is if the judge actually granted
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: the motion, said yes. You know, I mean, clearly, that's
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: not the case. It never happens that way. A judge
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: doesn't take it out of the hands of the jury.
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  Speaker 2: This is a motion that you have to make to
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: protect the record for appeal. That's all that was.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And finally, the biggest story of all, I think you'll
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: agree with this, Joseph, for the first time ever, In
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the history, the long history of the New York Hockey Rangers,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the goalie scored a goal.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: The greatest goalie of all time finally scored a goal.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I get a text from Takapina. First of all, this
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: guy Takapina is the real deal, okay? Not only is
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: he the best defense attorney in the world, he is
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: a true patriot.
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  Speaker 2: He is.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: He often comes on, talks about the Army, talks about
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the generals, talks about Iran. This guy can shoot a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: gun like Like nobody you've ever seen. This guy, he's
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: a sniper. I mean, this guy, you're unbelievable. So I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: get all these amazing pictures. And I got to say,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I'm very, very proud of you. Very proud of you.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And then you go on to tell me that Shosturkin
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: is the best goalie in the world. So you lose
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: all credibility at that point. But I know you were
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: excited that he scored a goal, weren't you?
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It was nice. So.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: with two of the greatest shooters in our country, Dan
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Horner and Delta Force sniper Seth Grace. And we were
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: doing stuff so I didn't get to see the game.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: But I saw that highlight and I let out a yelp.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: That was so incredible. And I think they thought I
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: shot myself in the foot or something.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: A little Plexiglas situation.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. It was unbelievable. And by the way,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: we could save this for another day. But, you know,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: last year, You know, there was only one goalie in
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the NHL who had the highest save percentage in hockey.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Do you know who that was?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with Shostakovich.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: You got it. That's it. So even though he doesn't
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: have the one-eighth thing because Chris Drury builds teams to lose,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: that's not his fault. He's the greatest goalie. It's like saying,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know, who's the best? Ernie Banks. One of
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: the greatest shortstops ever. Never won anything. Give me another player.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Dan Marino. One of the greatest quarterbacks ever. Never won anything.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: That's not Dan Marino's fault. No, no, no.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys like that. Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of guys that were great enough to win championships.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: But like you said, it's not a one-man sport. It's
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: not tennis or golf. So they build a bad team
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: around them. I think Shusterkin is great. I really do.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: But I reserve the all-time greats. for the guys that
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: can win. His team could have won two years ago.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: He wasn't great in those playoffs. He wasn't terrible, but
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: he wasn't great. I've seen Patrick Waugh, even John Van Biesbroek,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: stand on their head. There were a couple of Carolina
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: goals a couple years ago. You don't give those goals up.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm still reserving judgment.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: That's all.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair. I mean, we beat Carolina a couple
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: years ago, just so you know. You're talking about Florida,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the Panthers, because we lost to the Panthers.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. We beat them because Chris Kreider had
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: one sick period, but we never should have gotten to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: a game seven.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Very good.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. At any rate, he is great, but I got
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: to tell you seriously, those pictures, man, I wish everybody
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: can see. how much you love this country.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: What you're referring to, Sid, is the pictures yesterday when
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I was shooting with these Delta Force guys and with
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Dan Warner, who's the number one marksman in the world,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: by the way, just won a national competition. Wow. And
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: is like a brother to me. He's the greatest guy.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: They have this facility down in South Carolina where we're
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: doing marksmanship drills and marksmanship competitions. That's called sniping. And, yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I was hitting some 800-foot shots. I sent you videos
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: of it. Jeez, I saw. It was unbelievable. But I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: have the best teachers in the world, so let me not,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Know the teachers are great, but you've got to be–
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you're a talented guy on top.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Of that, please. We had some fun last night. They
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: were like, when did you become a professional sniper? I
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: worked on it hard, and these guys are amazing. But
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: they're the best of the best. I mean, Dan Horner, oh,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: my God. That guy could shoot with his eyes closed
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: and hit something a mile away. Seth Grace, another Delta
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Force sniper. I mean, it's just– it's amazing to be
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: able to– it's an honor to be able to be
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: around these guys and shoot with them.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm honored to talk to you. I love you
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: so much. Friends for 49 years, but man, you are
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: great at everything. Joseph Takapina, another amazing, amazing appearance. Willie,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the Cornell stop was A +. All of it was.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, pal. We'll do it again very soon.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, my brother.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I love you. Joseph Takapina right there. What a tremendous appearance.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to Sid and Friends in the Morning.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: You can hear Sid and Friends in the Morning weekday
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: mornings at 6. If you like the podcast, share it
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: with your friends and listen anytime at wabcradio.com and download
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: the WABC Radio app. Hit that subscribe button on all
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: major podcast platforms. Plus, follow WABC on social, on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: and X. See you next time for.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: A new episode so you never have to wonder. What
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the heck is going on here?