Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Be Kind to Yourself | a conversation with Sarah Bragg

Transcript

Be Kind to Yourself | a conversation with Sarah Bragg · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Amy Wicks, and I'm your host as well as our good friend Ashley Pittman.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you are new here, we are so glad you joined us.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Here at Simply Wholehearted, we are sharing our journey as we discover how to better love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: We hope to inspire you by inviting friends to share their ideas of how they live, unplugged, purposeful, and intentional in their everyday.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, have you heard Inner the Worship Circle's newest single?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Still We Dream of Flying?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Their music is what you hear in the background, so be sure and check out their latest releases at entertheworshipcircle.com and all things social.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Before I introduce this week's guest, I wanted to take a minute to thank you all for your kind comments, emails, and direct messages about last week's podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the subject hit home with many of you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Your encouragement, understanding, and even going out and buying Christine's book means the world to me.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really a gift to have affirmation like that and to know that the Lord is using this podcast to share his love and truth to others.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't listen to last week, be sure and check it out.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if the conversation blessed you, would you pass it along?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You might be surprised how many will be encouraged by the message of waiting forward.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing that has really blessed me is getting to connect with mom's groups around the city, sharing about how to create a Simply Summer.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are anything like the rest of us, you might be feeling a little bit of dread when you think about your kids' constant request to be on all things electronic.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe you're cringing when you think about the boredom wine every day of summer.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or perhaps you feel a slight panic about all the projects you need to work on and you have no idea how you can do it with the kids' home.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would love to help you because with a little bit of inspiration and some helpful planning, you can have a season of meaningful minutes with your kids.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you get to spend all day long with them or just a short few hours after work, make the most of every opportunity with the help of Simply Wholehearted's online workshop.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you can get 50 free boredombusters today and get on our wait list for when the course opens at SupersummerChallenge.com.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Today's conversation was Sarah Bragg.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, it is not as emotional as last week, but it's just as important to a lot of us women.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because we talk about a lot of things, but mostly about our self-worth.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: What do you really believe about yourself?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: What are the messages you tell yourself?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Women so often swing from one extreme of being mastered and controlled by our eating habits to the other side of addiction.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And while that's a whole conversation in itself, the root is what do we really believe about our body?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it good?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And were we truly made in his image?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: We do hope you'll grab your favorite beverage as you listen along.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe you'll feel happily distracted while pounding away on the treadmill as you listen to our conversation with Sarah Bragg.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll have to tell Ashley, I've given you probably Ashley a little bit of background to who you are.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we've obviously listened to your podcast and we follow you on all the socials.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I think a lot of your background was really interesting, um, including a book and your time with Orange and all of that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So have just kind of share a little bit more.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I you know, it's funny that we even mentioned like our dream jobs when we were younger.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And isn't it funny that like I don't know, you just don't have any idea of what could happen.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think my my box was so small of what I could do.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even being like a teenager or you know, I grew up in a Christian family and grew up in church, but even in like the church that I went to, you didn't really have an opportunity to serve or to lead anywhere until you graduated high school.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was like you could go on like a choir mission trip, and that was about the extent of it.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I feel like I always had this desire.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's probably because I watched my parents, they led, you know, Bible studies and Sunday school classes is what they call them.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And um and so I watched them lead, and I think that was the same, like stirred in me as well.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And but again, I never had the opportunity until I graduated high school, went to college, and then um from there started leading like small groups of like middle school girls, which that's a whole thing, you know.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, trying to have a conversation.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um which by the way, my internet keeps saying you're unstable.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if that's saying that I am personally unstable or my internet's kind of rude.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm very self-conscious.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Leave it to the internet.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's about the stability of my mind.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're talking and recalling about, you know, working with junior high students, there's some instability that might flare up.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably it was probably like checking my heart rate.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, that was oh, it's so funny.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was like I would have like four seconds of their attention and then they would jump to the next subject.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't know how we're ever gonna talk about anything meaningful.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hard it is so hard.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but um, and then I would leave, I would work the summers as a camp intern at these camps that would happen at the beach, and just fell in love.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Fell in love with ministry, really, like being able to um speak into the lives of other people.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was leading those small groups, and then by the time I was a senior in college, I was the chaplain of my sorority, and then you know, I led like three, I feel like there was one year out of school that I led like three different small groups, and I just loved it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was like an adult women and uh you know, middle school and uh in college, and I could just eat it up.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just loved the idea of investing in other people, encouraging other people, teaching other people.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so and what Enneagram number are you?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I got I'm a three.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I'm a three.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many people, and I'll read people's.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just read one this morning from from uh a friend here, and she was talking about something.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Oh, I bet she is a three.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can recognize it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, like later she said she was a three.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yep, I feel your because I felt the pain that she was talking about.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I so empathize with that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so but but back to that feeling like a small box, like I didn't know that being a woman that you could do ministry as like a job.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that just that just wasn't, I don't know, it was never talked about.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't, you know, and even going to a church where you weren't I didn't see women on stage.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, I I saw you know women-led uh Sunday school classes, but I didn't again, I had to be a certain age before I was even deemed, you know, like oh well, maybe you can like work with the middle school students, you know.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um or married to the right person because I another friend and I we talked about this.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: She's going to theological seminary right now, and that was her mindset.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: She had to either marry someone who was going to go in the ministry or get her husband so she could, you know, like do ministry.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So she tried to get her husband into ministry for years, and he was like, No, that's that's not the deal here.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: You do it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is not happening.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because that would be her validation.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like that would be worthy, deemed worthy enough to lead.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, so naturally, since I didn't think that was an option, I I decided to do, I wanted to work in baseball.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think I just really wanted to marry a baseball player if I was really honest at that time.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I know.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I worked for a minor league baseball team, and I I look back and like they paid me, like it might as well have been peanuts, but it was great.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I just like had a great time.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was crazy, it was wild.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was as minor league baseball teams, you have to do everything.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was a front office staff member in marketing, yet I was having to do the chicken dance on the dugout during the seventh innings.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's you know, you're I know the chicken dance really well, I know the YMCA dance really well.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So after that first season, though, I was like, why did I pick baseball?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's 10 million games and we have to be all of them.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but but but really it was just that stirring in me of going, I just don't think this is it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like as much as I I still I'm today is opening day for the Atlanta Braves, and I'm so excited.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're going so like we were so excited about the Braves back in town.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I don't want to work for like I don't want to like that, which wasn't like my end all.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I just started going back to the drawing board and which is funny, which I think a lot of women, these young women who are just graduated college, that first year or two out of school is so hard.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you are just you genuinely are like a middle schooler again, asking, like, who am I?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what am I supposed to do?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I here on this earth?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all those things.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not in a serious relationship, yes, because it feels so much more vulnerable.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like you really have to figure this out.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's like I just went four or five years to school, and this is not what I want to do.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is not what I'm supposed to do.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of went back to what is it that I loved doing?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was ministry.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's really what kept popping up.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I took an administrative assistant job, which I am terrible at.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: I could like answer phones wonderfully because I was so friendly and so happy.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: But Excel and all that, like I feel so bad for the people that hired me.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, but it was a it was a nonprofit, and they had all these nonprofits in their building, and they're still like, why don't you just come work for us?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll kind of, I don't know, it's a place to get to meet all these ministries, and maybe you'll find that you know the right next step.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I was it was there that I was in that season of just seeking and saying, what you know, surely there was something more for me that you wanted.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like this, you know, obviously it's not baseball, it's not administrative assistant work.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like the Lord, I just remember having this day in the car, driving to work, and it was like he started, I just started seeing pictures in my mind of like the past.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where was I the most fulfilled?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: When did I what I just loved the most?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, you know, sitting in those small groups with those middle school girls and leading my sorority and doing all these things that all was ministry.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was all pouring into other women.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and so it was there that I was like, okay, I think this is I really need to lean into actual ministry, not even just like a nonprofit at the time.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I just want to be working with girls specifically because I knew at that point I had written like a little purpose statement, and who knew that this purpose would still be like living out 20 years later, but that that I wanted to inspire, encourage um, and teach women for the glory of God.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I wanted to do as a 19, 20, 21-year-old.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was there I got connected with, I met um this, he was a student pastor at the time at Saddleback Church, Rick Horns Church.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so he was in our offices for a meeting and we met and he said, I have the plan for your life.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to move to California and work for me.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, done.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'll go.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my goodness.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I was, I guess, like 22, and I packed up my little Honda Accord and drove to California.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really, and that was my first church ministry job.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first time I saw, and there they had so many women on staff, and so many women were leading and doing this ministry, and thought, oh, this is amazing.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like this, this is possible.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: You can, you know, work in ministry for a living.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like somebody will pay you to do this.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that was there where I really just got to discover what ministry looked like.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I started seminary while I was there.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um what a good place to grow and learn.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like I was like, I was really spoiled starting there.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Cause then you go to any other church, you're like, oh wait, what is not this like mega?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have all the things, you know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was very spoiled working there.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but it was there like we had an an and so kind of you know, I feel like I'm talking your ears off, but I guess that's great, yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Conversation.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I just kind of wondered what your parents thought in all of this because you you know, you refer to them as like strong, you know, godly people leaders in their church.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did they help counsel you through this?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And were they a hundred percent, you know, you packing up the car and driving all the way to California?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that because um I think it helped that saddleback was saddleback, like it was like this is just like it wasn't like I was just like running off to you know LA.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and snow and and they were and the church was so great.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like they put me, I lived with a family while I was there because I I interned for two years, so it was like no payment.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my parents as well.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So my parents supported me still, you know, which I think, you know, oh goodness, like you think you're gonna be done with your kid when they graduate from college, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: They're still on your bill.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I lived with a family there, which was that was just an amazing, they are still dear to me today.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that my parents drove out with me.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: We took, you know, a week to drive out there.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and I, you know, I keep thinking, I wonder if that was a strange feeling for me to drop them off at the airport for them to hop on a plane to leave me.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, but they were very supportive.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that again, I think it helped that it was this established church that they had heard of.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was like, oh, well, you're gonna go there.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: That can't be bad.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um so we had a my uh the guy that was over all the interns one day.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: We would meet, you know, on a weekly basis or whatever, and he said, you know, what do you want to be like five years from now?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want to be doing?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, I want to be a writer and a speaker.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Well, maybe you need to write something.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was like, Oh, that's a novel idea.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: If I want to write, I should write.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great point.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not gonna happen, like if I snap my fingers.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I knew that I wanted to be, I I said, that's when I was like, I kind of want to do what Beth Moore is doing for this like younger generation.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to be this voice that makes it relevant and makes it interesting and makes it um you know applicable to this younger generation.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so that's when I just started, I started, I was, you know, started right.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote a book that never got published.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yes.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And probably a few of the best writers have those.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it, you know, I had an agent at the time of someone who believed in me.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she heard me speak and she read my stuff and she's like, I think I believe in you.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so, which is hard to, you know, some that whole publishing world is a whole interesting thing.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is, you know, it's like some people won't look at you if you don't have an agent, but then an agent won't look if you've not haven't published anything and you're like, Oh, what do I need?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, teach wrestle.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so, so anyway, so there, but there was a publisher that um read that book and and they needed a book on body image.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they say, Can you take this one chapter that you've written in this book about body image and just turn it into a whole book?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, so that's what I did.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I that I guess I was about 25 at the time, um, maybe 26.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was it fully published when I was 27.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I took that and um wrote a book, and it was it's called Body Beauty Boys, The Truth About Girls and How We See Ourselves.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really just my story of you know, discovering that truth.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how in the world can I learn to see myself the way that God sees me?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and so, so yeah, so that's so from there I got published and um was traveling and speaking, and um I moved to uh to Atlanta and worked for a church, and that's where my husband, he was also at this church, so that's you know when we met and um finally finished seminary like seven years later.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like I should get a doctor at this point.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a reasonable that's awesome.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um finished seminary and started working for Orange after a few years of of uh being at that church, and they wanted to launch a student curriculum, they didn't have one at the time, and so they brought me on to help them create that and what what that would look like and architect that and um and so so yeah, so I have been with Orange in some capacity for I guess like 11 years.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I've I've launched like four curriculums for them.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a I'm like finally going, I think I'm a launcher, I think I'm this idea person, let's make this happen.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then which is a total three, you know, now that I'm like understanding those things, I'm like, oh that makes sense why I'm yeah, that's awesome.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do you still I mean, tell me, okay, so you that book probably came out what 10 years ago now, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I have your age, well about 13 years ago.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm turning 40.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're turning 40 years.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, this year.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, exciting.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I told my husband I want to go somewhere, yeah, like take a trip, you know.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I want to celebrate.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't need like an extravagant party, but like celebrate and on the bummer is schools here.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's this way for you, but schools start like the day after my birthday.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: My birthday's August 1st.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, so then like I feel like I feel like every year my birthday gets like overshadowed by the first day of my share my glory with my children.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's true.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And spoken like a three.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I want somebody to see me.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So mine's two days after Christmas.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Totally get it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally the same way.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's done celebrating, but I have a daughter um two days before Christmas or three days, and then my husband's is two days.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they Okay, so this is us too.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: My daughter is on August the 12th, and his birthday is the 14th.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 18:25
  unknown: How crazy!
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I need my own month.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, is what I want.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally, I agree.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so Spencer just turned 40 last December, and that was his thing too.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But he's he's a nine, so he used to as a kid cry when people sang him happy birthday.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so he was like, Yeah, you better not do a party, and we need to go somewhere.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we did do a a five-day um getaway, which was amazing.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so great.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I would highly recommend like, yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if not right at the start of school, it out a little bit.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ways of celebration.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I like that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I thought my sister did a I have a uh my youngest sister turned 30 last year and she did like 30 days of fun, which I thought was really great.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, some people do 30 days of serving, but I'm not for that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 30 days 40 days of fun.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always like, I appreciate people who can like, they're like, I'm giving something away every day.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I want to get like give me something, celebrate, do something.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's where my three wing only shows up.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's birthday.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because you feel the same way.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a four, yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have much three wing, but maybe that's where the three comes in on that side.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't want to touch it on my birthday.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't ask for it.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not bold enough to say it out loud.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So this time we we sat in our friend's van with our portable recorder and chocolate and some adult beverage, and we sure we recorded an episode.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of fun.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: In my driveway.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was awesome.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was so fun.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was a good way to yeah, it was very thoughtful too.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: They had they were very thoughtful and brought me some little gifts, and it was so she tried to downplay the actual birthday.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we at least got to have our kid.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was fun, it was good that does sound perfect.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: But that sounds like a four, even like kind of downplay.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: But see, and that's when I have a four wing, and so that's where like I feel like the four is always like prosecuting me.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, it's intense, it's attention.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's yes, right.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of tension with that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and you probably tap into that for all the creativity that comes along with the writing and the publishing process and and all of that, which is so so cool.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we totally hijacked, and I want to back up.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the fun of this.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I love like talking to people that I don't I really didn't think of any questions ahead of time.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like we're just gonna chat.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it was so fun.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I will never like you just sometimes have those meetings in your life, and you meet someone, you're like, that was totally divine, and there's just something really beautiful that came out of it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you go, if I lived closer to that person, I would really enjoy so anyway.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was actually meeting you.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank goodness for Boxer and this.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly for sure.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so 10, oh yeah, so so 13 years ago the book comes out.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say differently, or how how much do you like take some of those lessons that you spoke in the book and wrote in the book and apply them to your life now?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then now that you have daughters of your own, because I think I told you just the other day I was at the gym and and these ladies, you know, we were all working out together, and one of them just was really bashing herself.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I finally I mean, like I knew she was doing it for laughs and kicks and kills, but I finally was like, because I knew there was an element of truth.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Would you just say that to your daughter?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or would you say that to your friend?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And she just like looked at me and I'm like, Uh oh.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean how many of other stuff?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna back up.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't say anything.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought, like, how true?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I have to point the finger right back to myself.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but boys, body image, all of that stuff, that's like continually relevant.
• 22:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's what I remember when the book came out, um a 70-year-old woman read it and she said, That was applicable to me.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know you wrote it for like middle school, high school girls, but that was applicable to me.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because, you know, it's it's my story, but it's the it's it's weaving in God's truth, and God's truth is always going to be applicable to you.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And no matter what age.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I for sure, it's so funny.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like and I don't know if this is being a three.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is partly why it's such an issue for me or has been.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: But those same kind of core things about searching for acceptance and love and value and a sense of identity and belonging, all of those things in that season really manifested itself in um body image.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: It really manifested itself in how I looked.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's interesting being 40.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I still struggle with those in a sense, I'm except I'm not starving myself every day.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a much more like understanding of like, you know, uh the mindset, but yes, that's behind it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I can still apply those in the same ways of like my accomplishments and what I'm doing in life.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's interesting how a lot of those things, the core things, can carry through from you know, middle school and high school, and now they look this way as a 40 near 40-year-old.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's those same truths are still very applicable of what I learned.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I find myself coaching myself a lot, like still, and even though it might be, oh, because I'm struggling with, you know, not being valued in this work area now or something like that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: It might not be because I'm, you know, I'm thinking I'm overweight or something.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: But but it's those same truths of like, you know, you are already accepted, you are already chosen, you are already loved.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So start your day from that point.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Don't don't do this one thing hoping to find acceptance.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do it from a place of acceptance.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so those are things that just for me, I'm still coaching myself on.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember doing a radio interview when the book came out, and they said this radio, this was radio.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is like our radio moment.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and they said, Oh, do you still struggle with this?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they thought I was gonna say no.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, of course.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I've learned how to um practice contentment.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's not I don't think I'm ever gonna just be content.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's in my makeup, it is not who I am.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I uh there's some discontent that pushes me for good, and there's discontent that pushes me for bad.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I've learned how to be content and it's a practice, it's a daily practice.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm gonna choose to be content or I'm gonna choose to not be, am I gonna choose to believe truth or am I gonna choose to believe how I feel?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it is, it's just this constant practice.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and and one of the things that I see raising girls, because that's obviously like you know, kind of a blaring thing, especially because my oldest is about to be 10.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she's at the exact age that I was when it started for me.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm very aware and just kind of watching what is it, like is something about to happen that's gonna, you know, put her on a trajectory, good or bad?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm always aware of that.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things that I I did this is not in the book, um, but it's similar.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: But it I started um saying I started in January 2017 of just saying the phrase, be kind to yourself.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was one of those things that for me, like I would look in the mirror and I go, Ugh, like I still like you know, and then I would have to say, be kind to yourself.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, be kind to yourself.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you've had two kids, you you are work all these things, you just need to be kind to yourself.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've started saying that to my girls.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would start, and I'm the kind of I don't like failing, which failing then makes me feel like I'm not accepted or I'm not valued, yeah, all the things.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a snowball effect.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and so I would say that about to myself, even messing up.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's times I don't know if you guys have had this happen to you, but like you release a podcast episode or a blog post in as small as like a misspelled like word.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I would be on the floor, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that I can't believe I put that out there.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe I did it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Such a failure, blah, blah, blah, you know, and have to go, be kind to yourself.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we all make mistakes, yeah, be kind to yourself.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started just kind of preaching that to my girls when I had the moment when one of them was so upset because they made a mistake or they didn't handle something right and they're mad at themselves.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say, be kind to yourself, be kind to yourself.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: We all make mistakes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was one of those I just say it over and over.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And one day I was cooking dinner, and I am not a great cook.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be so badly, like I want to enjoy it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I try to like picture my mind, what can I do to make me enjoy this?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I have a glass of wine and John Mayer playing something, I'm like, maybe then, and I still fail for a minute.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: But and so it was one of those moments where like I burned the whole thing and like threw it in the track, and you know, or I burn and and I was so mad at myself, and I was just like, oh and my youngest um, who was seven at the time or six, and she walked in and she said, It's okay, mommy, be kind to yourself.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: We all make mistakes.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I was like, That's it, like she gets it, and hopefully that will she'll remember, you know, there's a a great chance that she'll forget all the things I've ever said for a season of life.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's that, okay, this is how I want to preach this to my girls of like saying these kind of phrases so that you know we begin to to believe what we what what we hear.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you know, and every kid is different.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: I have one who like I can say those things all day long, and because she doesn't feel it, she doesn't believe it.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: She's gonna have a harder time and uh of getting over those because feelings are screaming louder than than any sense of logic or truth.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it is is I'm very aware of those of those things, and and this was the f Christmas was the first time I told my oldest um oh that someone called me fat.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: That I haven't talked about that because I'm very guarded about like I don't want to draw attention to um fat or skinny.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to be like, you know, you're just a person, and this is all the things that make up who you are, and these are all the things that make you beautiful.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so, but because I firmly believe we should tell our daughters that they're beautiful because they're they are created to want to hear that.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't say it to them, they are gonna seek it from somebody else.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and so um, but anyways, we she was rejected by a friend.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: A friend made fun of her, and she was and I and I told her, I was like, listen, I had this similar thing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fourth grade, girl called me fat, and I said, you know what, I had to still go to school with that girl until I graduated high school.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and I had to figure out how to not let her ruin me.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and she did ruin me for a long time.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I let her do that, yeah.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: But how to be able to not let that and so we had a big conversation about feelings and truth and identity and belonging and all of that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that really is all those things are starting to to really come out with this age.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's it's uh that's like the big topic, uh, you know, with a 10 and 11 year old girls.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we got a boy down there, but he thankfully he's he's into entered a fairly simple phase, which is so great.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and really grateful for that space.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, all of that, and this is their first year to go to a five-day school.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's actually technically four and a half.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they've been homeschooled or you know, done co-ops and that sort of thing before.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that dynamic too of the day in and day out, and when things happen and when boys say things that are, you know, as boys do at this age, and girls are you know can be so mean, um, no matter the environment.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It it happens at this stage.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's really I mean, even was happening ironically.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, before we went to this school, there was a girl at church that one of my girls was just struggling with, and ironically, this girl went to that school where we ended up going that wasn't planned or anything like that, but we had to like work through that because it was just a comment that for her it felt like truth.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for my daughter, it hurt.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, we've just been having those conversations too, because we probably all as women have those stories.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, and just too, and just impart truth of what we see, but also you know, just that point too of like, okay, what can I take them to in the word of God?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, and he sees us and he you know formed us and and specially and designed us, you know, exactly for a purpose.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um but all of that is just especially because like you said, we still have to we're not just cured, it's like fear or a couple of the big things like they will keep coming up, and no matter how healed we are, there's still scars or sometimes open wounds, and then we have to when our kids are dealing with them, then we get to do it all over again.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I tell moms all the time, I just talked, I went and spoke at a conference a few weeks ago, two moms of teenagers about talking about these topics, and I was like, you gotta just keep saying the thing, just keep beating the drum because they will forget it or they will not, or maybe they'll not hear it for a season.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I know that the things that my mom was saying to me eventually did come back up.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were there, they were built into me.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and the other thing is you know, allow your girls to have um be influenced by another trusted adult, whether that's a young adult or an adult, because I was able to hear it from another woman to help me process through that that I couldn't hear from my mom.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, and that's just the nature of adolescents and girls and all of that, and so to not be afraid to let someone else come alongside your girl and be the same truth that you would say.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but she might be able to hear it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we used to always look for those people.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have a I have an 11-year-old girl, and then I also have a 20-year-old.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so with the 20-year-old, you know, when she was younger, we just specifically looked around and encouraged those relationships with maybe there were college-age girls or whatever who were really solid and willing to pour into to younger girls.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was invaluable to have another voice because I knew we had hit a point where my words just weren't, they just didn't matter as much.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they matter, but but she just needed the influence of somebody that was a little bit closer to her age and a little more detached.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um to be able to hear it.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think they're gonna be looking for it somewhere, whether it's magazines, TV, friends, um, you know, just culture.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we might as well do what we can to try to like influence what those voices are gonna be because they do need it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and right now while they're in your home, yeah, like what better opportunity do you have when they are seeing because it they are gonna see all those things?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is not you cannot protect their eyes from all those things and their ears from all those things.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but while they are still in your home and you can have this like conversation about it, yeah, um, that's the best time to start having this conversation when they're right there.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: So when they do get to be 20 and they go to college or they leave, you know, at least you've had you've already established that conversation, you've established those things.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's powerful because they they will have it like some of that play back in their mind, or they they know they can come to you or that other trusted person they developed a relationship with.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm having a problem here, help me.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so powerful.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's probably a book that um I mean, you could just um it it was great for you know who it spoke, but we could write it to every stage of life.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was thinking about the way you shared that, you know, when the radio guy, whoever, asked you if you still struggled, and you said, Yeah, but it, you know, it looks different now.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about how there's this, you know, the current movement in the culture, there is, I mean, girls still struggle with body image, but there's also the this big push to say, no, I'm more than a body.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's almost the opposite, there's this opposite drive to prove their worth in something outside of their body, which is valid because we are more than bodies and we have gifts and we have things to offer, but in the same regard, it can go the other way, and then they're pushed towards performance.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And look how amazing I am over here, but it's still the same need.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And whether you're a three or you're not, if you're trying to prove that you're not, you know, just something to be looked at or whatever, then you're still kind of over there trying to prove you're worth in another thing.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the message is good, it's it's necessary no matter what your drive is, because just having a daughter that's this age and a college age, I'm just trying paying attention kind of what's happening in that, you know, that age group, and it's it can be both.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: What the message they're hearing from the culture surrounding them.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's it's it's all about externals at that point.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, whether it's the way that you look or the way that you behave or um the way that you perform, and those are what we hear all the time that determines um that you're worth something.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: It determines so so then we think something externally has to be done to us.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have to improve the view of ourselves, we have to have more people around us, accomplish more things, do more things.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all of that, and we think, oh, if I do all those things, then I will be worth something.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: When when you know, as a Christian, we believe that you know our worth comes from an internal transformation.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Our our worth also comes just for the fact that we were created by God in his image.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like we were the only image bearers out there.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: Cows didn't get it, birds didn't get it, you know, yeah, whales didn't get it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we got it.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: We have the unique ability to represent and to represent God and to reflect his image.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so that alone gives us worth.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then you say what Jesus did for us and that he calls us chosen and holy and beloved, those are all those are internal things, those have nothing to do externally about ourselves.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I wish that it was just so easy to get that in their hearts because I know that that would be the transformational piece, and I know that only life can teach them that, and they have to believe it for themselves, you know, and all things with faith.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And at 43, I'm still trying to figure that out.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: To go, it's all internal.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if I could get the internal in line and go, okay, I'm at rest, I'm loved, I'm valuable, just as I am without any anything, with doing nothing, sitting, you know, laying in bed under the covers, not moving.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's I'm valued in love.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then from that place get up and go use my gifts.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And just do it in a way that's, you know, in confidence.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I always think I I tell and I told these moms at this event too, I said, God is writing a story on your girl's life.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Just like he's writing a story on you yours.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look back at your life, the things that you know propelled your faith forward, the things that shaped who you are, most of them are the hard things.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: The things that I had to walk through because I didn't believe it and I had to figure it out myself, or whatever reason, or someone did this thing to me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, those were all the things that God used to make me who I am today.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have to remember that God is gonna do the exact same thing with our kids.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Cannot protect them from that.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: We don't, and nor should we want to protect them from walking through hard things because those at the end of the day are the things that He is gonna use in great ways to shape who they are and to shape their story.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just so hard sometimes.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to you have to really just know your kids and know at what point, you know, there may be a point you need to step in, but it uh up until that point, you just kind of have to let them deal with it, work it out.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and just it helps me when I when I remember my when I remember my own story.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: It helps me to draw back the like crazy, like I'm about to jump off a bridge.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is yes, and I'm like, okay, okay, okay, think about your own life.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: How would this have looked when you were this is how you know I have to put myself back in that that time frame and that perspective.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the Lord redeemed it no matter what.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all have our stuff that we go, well, that was not the best, but the Lord still redeemed it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we gotta talk about the boy part, um, as far as because that's part of the title, and I know I mean um some girls for some reason they start being boy crazy at four.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And for some, it takes them till they're out of high school.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So just kind of give a brief overview of like how you incorporate that in your story and how you've spoken to young adults and a little of your story too, because your voice story is kind of fun.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I feel like it for me, it it was coming back down to the why question.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why did I want this attention?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why did I want this?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was a loved kid.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like my parents loved me, my grandparents loved me.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like I was never told you were loved or you're beautiful or anything.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I still had this like drive in me, thinking that that was what was gonna finally affirm that I am worth something.
• 39:41
  unknown: Right.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really was all it for me, it's still all tied down to those fundamental identity questions and those, um, and so for me it helps to understand why, you know, why do you want a boyfriend all the time?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why do like asking that question, um, you know, why why do you want to have sex?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you want like you're you're yes, obviously we're made to do that, but but why?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: What is the motivation behind what you're doing?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I just felt like the motivation was still just trying to find value and worth and that affirmation.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was, and I felt like I just wasn't worth something because I didn't date a lot.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was always that girl that I was friends with everyone, everyone viewed me as like a sister or a friend, and so it just perpetuated this.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what's wrong with me?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Why doesn't you want to date me?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's really where I feel like it came down to was once I really started understanding my identity, it even helped with that boy department because it was going, okay, like it'll be okay.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is not gonna all of a sudden make me worth something.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the core of all of this.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so when you said you met your husband at um now you were back home um uh in Atlanta, I'm assuming, or was this Tennessee?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh Tennessee was home, and so I moved to Atlanta um from California.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I heard a little bit of your story from I think it was a podcast and you're talking to someone.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to hear it because it just made me, I don't know.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I really liked it.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: So tell a little bit of that story.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny, so I moved to this.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: My husband, well, I guess we'll say this first, is that I'm six years older than him.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when I moved so when I moved to Atlanta, he had just graduated high school.
• 41:37
  unknown: Wow.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: He was never in my ministry.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: That was important.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: It would have had a different element.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: That would have been a different story.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so so I was, you know, I didn't give him the time of day because he was 19 years old.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not, you know, whatever.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um totally and and so it and it's funny because I uh you know being a speaker and being a writer, you know, I I would speak every week, I guess, to girls.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um I guess at this point when he was involved, it it was we weren't dating, but he was like the tech guy.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: So he was having to be at every you know, function of student ministry.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: He was running a sound and video and all that.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: So he would hear me tell all these stories on myself, he would hear me talk to these girls about dating and all that kind of stuff, and so he heard everything about me.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's hilarious to me.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and I and I feel like in the time period of before we started dating, you know, it's it's just funny who, and this is probably a three in me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I felt like I had to date someone with a lot of clout.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know, I I never started ministry too.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, nobody that I dated, like I didn't call them by name to friends or anyone.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, oh, he's the rock star or he's the surfer or he's the you know, I would fill in the blank with who he is, not his actual right.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because it was again, I think it was like, oh, I'll be worth something more if I'm dating this like well-known associated with so so anyway.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt like God did a whole lot of work in me by the time because Scott was he he was a nobody.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was just a normal, like he didn't have a fill in the blank.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't want a fill in a sound guy, right?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I don't want to be on stage, I don't want to be known, I don't want you know it was very different than someone who I had um pictured in mind, and so but it we were just great friends, like we were um our best friends were a married couple, so we just hung out all the time and um, but I mean, like never even had hugged.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was like great friends, but not like even like, oh I'm like, yeah, I know you, like whatever.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and it was generally like one day I woke up and realized I found myself like flirting with him when I saw him.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like I mean I was I was probably twenty six and he was twenty and And so I remember we had a very right, we had a very middle school moment where we realized um that we liked each other.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it was um I like I am not a a make your move on a guy kind of girl.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And he we were sitting, we for once we sat beside each other watching a movie.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to make the move to like hold his hand.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's so middle school.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, we're like your hands kind of touching and you were like, are you gonna make the move?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Are you not gonna make the move?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, and so finally after after when we left, he said, What are you doing?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I will not be one of your boy toys.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so he just called me out on it.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't know.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, but this feels different.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it feels like he's like, okay, he's like, well, you know.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so anyways, we fast tracked it.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: We we I think we were only together about six months before we got married.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Which my parents were fine with me moving to California, but they were not fine with me marrying a you know, just turned 21 year old and that you've been dating for six months.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, what?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is not like you.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I just think it's fun that he's six years younger than you.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: I do, because we again like the box that we always put ourselves in is just how the lore.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're so here though.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: When I tell I I I tell girls, I I was leading a group of college girls a few years ago, like two or three years ago, and I was like, it's okay.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know you're stressed about who you're gonna marry, but your husband may just be in middle school right now.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: And they would all laugh.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, genuinely, when I was in college working for those summer camps, he was attending those camps.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know him, he knew who I was because he would see me on stage.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: But um he was the middle schooler at those camps when I was in college.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that weird?
• 45:46
  unknown: I love it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it was crazy, just great, especially let's you know, let's think about this in the future.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: When you're in your 70s and he's in your 60s, naturally, right?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be younger.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, like come across as younger and be able to have your age way better.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I don't like that I can't like this is the last like few months of saying, Oh, we're just in our 30s.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: True, true.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're about to hit a different age bracket for a while.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: So is he still the sound guy for you?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Does he uh help you with all the tech?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because he has been editing my podcast this whole time until this week, and he finally I just you know, I've just been like trying to be a good wife and let him work within his giftedness.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right, okay.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he taught me how to edit on Sunday.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I'm I'm launching a new podcast next week.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Um, you need to edit this.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not editing all of these episodes too.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I had to learn.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what new ever like what new podcast series are you doing?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um there's some counselors out of Nashville that I've gotten to be good friends with, um, Sissy Goff and David Thomas.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they've been on my show a few times.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: With them too, right?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to Nashville to record for this new podcast.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I went to them, I said, let's, I said, you know, I have this idea.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I have ideas all the time.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, Yes, exactly.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: All the time.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: They wrote a book called Are My Kids on Track.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such a good book.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's trap, it looks at the 12 emotional, social, and spiritual milestones that your child needs to reach.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's real, and it covers really, you know, I mean, all ages, and they break it down by gender.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: And is this book out already?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I need to do it.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is out already.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's so good, and it's practical.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's, I mean, there's like so many like you know, just practical tips to try to incorporate some of these um things that we need to develop in our kids, you know, empathy, um, aware, social awareness, all these things.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many milestones that even me, like there's times where I'm like, oh, I'm falling behind on that milestone.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I need to flex that muscle a little bit.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we recorded uh a short podcast episode, like a 30-minute episode, to go with each chapter of the book.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then we've written small group questions to go along with it so that it would be easy to unpack it and understand.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I clearly love podcasts.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, if you know, if someone could just listen as they go and hear a conversation about empathy and what that looks like, what the stumbling blocks are for a boy or a girl and what building blocks we could put in place for that.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that's what we did.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's launching next week.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: So oh my goodness.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so great.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um very excited.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: By the time this podcast releases, we'll have links to where you can find.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, Surviving Sarah.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Surviving Sarah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, I'm having speaking issues.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's this new podcast gonna be called?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna be called Are My Kids on Track.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it'll be and it's just a and it's a just a companion study.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not gonna necessarily add any more episodes to it.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll release all 13 episodes at once.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: And perfect.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's awesome.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm seeing that more and more.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, Ashley and I were talking about because I have an online workshop um that is video and PDF format.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, you know, for me, I'd really prefer if you could create an audio uh format for it, just audio.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you could be more on the go.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, which is really good.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that's kind of one of my other, you know, millions of projects, millions of ideas.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can't do that.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I have those, those long list of things that should have happened a year ago, but I'm like, I just can't get to all of them.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, we can't get to all of them.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so obviously you you did get to do a book, you've got your podcast, you're working with amazing people, you're sharing stories, you're doing ministry, you're speaking.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what are just some of those other big things?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: That do you feel like I want to do this very thing for the next 30 years, or is this you know, for the next five until the next dream?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I do feel like there's gonna always be a next dream.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's probably just the nature of who I am.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I do love I I have fallen in love with hosting and realized how much which it goes back to what you know, our very initial conversation and talking about what we dreamed of ourselves doing and me wanting to be co-host with Regis, like that was what this was was having conversation and and I love speaking, I love I I love the stage.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I love like being able to to do all that and to teach women and um, but I also just love hosting.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love being a part of cheering for other people and um making people laugh and have a good time and forget about their problems for a minute or help them solve their problems for a minute.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I don't know, I don't know, like right now, like the podcast is great.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: We're you know over two years in, and um who knows if what that will if that'll morph into something, or if I just am having the best time having conversations, and so I hope to publish again.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like I'm finally getting, you know, for me, like having kids at 30, I feel like just like killed me.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, yeah, it was like I was so like accomplished and all talking about worth, and then all of a sudden you enter into motherhood where no one is affirming your worth at all.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like in fact, you feel like you are not great because you aren't achieving every day, right?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're failing every day, their behavior is awful, and you're like, Well, I can't even, you know.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so, so I remember like my publisher after I published that first book kept me like, I would like in that like I'm like, I just can't, I have no words, I have no words, I can't say anything.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm learning and so I'm an embargoing.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: So like I feel like I'm at a mental place again to write again and to um and so I would love to just do more, you know, with women, like whether that's hosting or speaking or writing another book, or you know, and if Regis comes out of retirement and wants to coach something, I would yeah.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: That would be awesome.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'd love to see.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: I could totally see like you and Melanie maybe doing some women's events together, things like that where you like you incorporate all of that where it's your book, exactly your hosting and all of that, or maybe with a couple other women.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll certainly raise my hand and go, I'll come.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have to do so, we'll do some reciprocal things because I think I think that's where our heart goes.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I just love talking to other three sometimes and going, Yes, this is so nice.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only one.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the dust.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only crazy.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just because you do.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it probably no matter who you are, you feel you have your own sense of crazy, and it's just nice to know that you're not the only one.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love this.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah, thank you so much for your time and just sharing your story and some of your dreams, and just also just such a good word that I think women in general just need to hear again and again of just our worth and value in Christ alone and resting in that and um and then being able to give from that place to our kids and speak from that place of truth, even if we have to tell ourselves that every single day.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and even if you're not believing it in the moment, you're still saying it because you know it's true.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly for sure.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, I am gonna box you later because I had a few more questions.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know we were boxing back and forth about a couple steps, so I will finish up that conversation.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: We'll continue the conversation over there.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Sarah.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have a wonderful day.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know, thank you.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, bye.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you just like her?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: I sure do.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: And indeed, I wish we lived a little closer.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: But thank goodness for Foxer.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be sure to put all the ways to find Sarah, her book, and her podcast in our show notes.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks again for all the new reviews and emails from our podcast VIPs.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know they get a special note not published anywhere else?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's a behind-the-scenes story or a personal note from me and a heads up about our special giveaways.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you aren't a podcast VIP yet, we'd sure love to have you join our community.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: It means a lot to get feedback from y'all, and we are so grateful we get to share these inspiring messages.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I am beginning to wonder lately about my emotional stability, especially after last week's episode.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm beginning to think that has something to do with my Aneagram coaching journey.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm loving learning about each type and I'm diving in to all the things that hold us back.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: But there's nothing like someone reading your mail, which is exactly what I think the Enneagram does.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such a good thing.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: But now I'm beginning to realize how often I resort to unhealthy patterns.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm grateful for the insight the Enneagram is giving me.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you will too, once you get started on your own Aneagram journey.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: So until we can begin a wait list for coaching, be sure and check out all that Beth McCord offers at your calm.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you can find a discount for her introductory programs in the show notes.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, until next week, we hope you'll be joining us as we discover more ways to live a simply wholehearted life and pledged, purposeful, and intentional.