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Stop Chasing New Donors - Borrow a Crowd with Daryl Hatton | Nonprofit411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

• Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Hello, welcome to Nonprofit 411, the podcast for nonprofit professionals who are passionate about helping and still figuring out the rest. Each episode brings in experts who worked in the sector, fundraisers, directors, and specialists for real conversations and real help you can use in your own work. I'm your host, Sarah Barton, the generosity strategist, and I'm joined today by Daryl Hatton, CEO of Connection Point. Welcome, Daryl. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Hey, Sarah, this is gonna be fun. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I'm super excited. So we actually just met not too long ago. and I am very aligned with you. I feel very aligned with the way that you see fundraising, the way that you see nonprofit work. And so I'm excited to have this conversation and just kind of learn a little bit more about you and the work that you're doing. And I it's gonna be fun. So so welcome. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Well, I you know, for everyone kind of watching, we've had the the benefit of having a couple of deep conversations where we get in and start to talk philosophy of what we're doing. And that ran and we ran with it, ran with like we gotta go now. Like we've got other things to do. So it was kind of funny to have that level of alignment show up so fast. And I I really appreciate you for that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Well, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's what I love about the nonprofit sector. I love the intersections that you find and the breadth of experience. So before we get too far into it, you want to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and the work that you're doing. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Sure, yeah. So I'm just as you said, I'm CEO of Connection Point. Connection Point is the name of our company and the name of what we call our collaborative commerce platform. Collaborative Commerce is about helping causes and corporations work with consumers to fund impact projects. So we take that to market under multiple brands. One of them is Fundraiser, F-U-N-D-R-A-Z-R, which is for or Z R if you're Canadian, it's for personal and professional charities. So it's like GoFundMe, GoFundMe Pro. But the kind of the key thing that we've we've done with that is really helped focus on the social fundraising aspects of it. We're not trying to be a CRM for everyone. We're trying to really focus on how do you use social fundraising to build a community of advocates and have them help you find new donors. So it's a slightly different approach to the whole thing. And to give everyone an idea of scale, we've helped raise about $400 million. For about two hundred thousand projects so far. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, so that that was the first the first introduction to you was related a fundraiser. And I have this experience. It was probably 2005, maybe. Glenn Doyle, who is an author and an advocate, she did a fundraiser through like a crowdsourcing mechanism, and you weren't allowed to donate more than five dollars. And in the first day they raised a million dollars. yes. So it was huge, right? And and so I am fascinated by the idea of using crowdsource fundraising, you know, for nonprofit work because I can see I've seen it work. I mean, and that was 20 years ago, you know, before we were as connected as we are now, and we have so many opportunities to be connected. And so I'm so excited. to just listen to you and find out, you know, kind of some of the things that you've learned, some of the w trials and errors that have come along, you know, in the process, what doesn't work, what does work, and and just have a great conversation about this. So so how'd you get into fundraising work? Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Well, one of the interesting kind of piece pieces of that is that in the beginning of where we got started, I got started because I was looking at the way people were starting to use Facebook. And specifically I got started because I was trying to to get my son's lacrosse team, I was coaching, trying to get them to attend practice. And I was emailing them and nothing was happening. So I posted a group on Facebook because I noticed they were all on Facebook. And everybody showed up for practice. And I kind of went, I wonder if I can get them to pay for their fees for playing like this. And so the first version of fundraiser was created to help do the fee collection for my lacrosse team. And we thought we'd do some donation processing on the side. Because, you know, we need to raise money for the team. And passing the the bucket around in the stands was just getting to be tedious. And the fee collection part kind of fell flat. But the donation stuff took off. And so like the unintended side effect Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: That's funny. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: of trying to do something. But in those early days of what we were doing, Facebook was still a new thing and it still had a positive vibe. People were quite happy to be doing it and they were experimenting with it. It it was so early that people said, You're using that thing where you know, like the kids use it for doing hot or not? Like you're gonna build a business on that? And the answer was yes, because it's gonna change the way we ch we communicate. So fast forward a little bit, early campaigns were really, really easy to get to go because it was new and exciting. And the fraud experience hadn't happened to some people yet. So the people were more willing to test it and try it. And, you know, now it's a lot harder to do. We don't trust it as much. The everyone's engagement on on social media in general is is down because of the some of the toxicity that's involved there. But there's still some really good things that are happening and and so our question is how can we make it work in a positive way, despite all the headwinds that are in that social fundraising market? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. One of the things I love about having a platform like that is that you know, you can share it, but you can also update within it because I always tell my nonprofits that I work with, you can put stuff on social media and you actually have no idea who sees it. Right? It it's so driven by individual algorithms now that you can't be sure that what you put out there is actually being seen by the people that want to see it even, right? Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Yeah, I you know, we subscribe to the stuff we want and then we're filled with everything that the platform is trying to sell us. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: it's one of the things that we think is really important in this is that to rise above the noise on social media really is about getting your existing donors and your community of supporters to be advocates for you. So when they will share, that's different when you share. Because Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: now it's more of a personal recommendation. And the algorithm still has to have some of that stuff, or else everyone just gives up on it. So we want, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: it will prioritize some of the personal things that your your group does. And but one of our kind of I guess our approaches to the whole thing is to say it should be an 80 20 rule about what you share. 80% of the time you should be talking about the results that you're generating. Sometimes in fundraising world, we're going, we're supposed to ask every time. We're going, no, no, no, don't do that. It's op it's the opposite. 80% of the time, share what's going on. 20% of the time you might ask for something. But you do an 80-20 on that 20 as well. So we're really breaking it way down. 80% of the time when you're asking, ask for advocacy. Ask for people to share and talk about it. And 20% of that time, so we're getting a really small amount here, you might ask for a contribution. And everybody goes, Well, I'll never get anything. And it's actually not true. The opposite is kind of true. The more you're sharing that impact, the more the donation becomes a side effect of communicating the results you're creating. It takes some faith to believe in that, like, you know, some trust that that's actually going happen, but that's what we're seeing really work. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. I use a very similar strategy in my work. it probably ends up being 7525 because I do 12 weeks and then every four weeks is like, you know, a a a smaller increment in that. And I love it. I love when people come back to me and they're like, my gosh, it happened, right? It really happened. but but you have to have that consistency to be able to see that it's even happening. And a lot of times organizations struggle with that consistency because, you know, maybe it's just one of them or two, two people working within the organization. And and I think this piece of advocacy is so key. I actually I talk to people about using their CRM or other platforms as a way to share the work too, right? Too often we have Board members who might have expertise in let's say marketing or they're great at social media. You know, it's one of the things they said they could offer when they came onto our board. And we don't have that avenue for them to be able to utilize ours and be another voice in our in our Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: ecosystem. And so I think that that's an important piece. And I think fundraiser allows you to do to do that, right? Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Very much. And that you know, like that's a really important thing. A lot of folks will come to us and say, I don't know how to get started in this social stuff. We don't have a crowd. Like how am I gonna do crowdfunding? I don't have a crowd. And so there's three techniques to getting a crowd. You build a crowd, which is where you're collecting email addresses and you're doing all the work in person, you're talking to somebody, you're starting to assemble your mailing list, and and you end up having a crowd that you can communicate by email. You can buy a crowd. You can go Google ads, or you can, you know, get on and try and attract people to your cause through ads. Tough thing, pretty expensive for most people, doesn't necessarily really work well for some certain types of causes. Or you can borrow a crowd. Now, the cool thing about a crowd is I can lend you my crowd and I'm not giving it away. I'm just sharing it with you. And so your board members have a crowd around them. They have friends, they might use LinkedIn, they might be willing to share it by email directly or messenger it to someone or things like that. You've got volunteers that are gonna do that. You've got your donors. If you think about every donor, they are going to have somewhere between a couple hundred and maybe a couple of thousand, younger donor, a couple thousand friends in social media. If you get them to share something out, even if it only gets seen by five percent of those, five percent of a thousand is still fifty people that you reached. So it's a way to get out to a crowd that you couldn't reach in any other way, cost effectively. And so we talk about how do you borrow a crowd from your borrow it from your board, borrow it from your volunteers. And here's one that a lot of people don't think about. Borrow it from your corporate sponsors. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, I was going to say it. It's like sitting right here. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: T so tell me about that. Tell me about how you would see that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Well, so you want to find a corporate partner who's aligned with what you're doing, and then they have a crowd that's already pre-segmented, right? They've already identified people who are interested in what you're doing. Let's say it is animal, you know, something related with animals. So if I'm doing maybe animal rescue. What are some corporations that I could reach out to and and even talk about this as our initial partnership? Like it's an easy, low-hanging partnership for a corporation. And I think Pet Smart, you know, any of your your pet stores, your rescue, other rescue places have crowds that they, you know, would that are interested in that? Maybe you have a specific niche and you know, they'll they're interested in expanding their reach. And so both your names go on it and all of a sudden now it adds clout and it adds legitimacy to what you're doing, also. Mm-hmm. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: It's an endorsement, right? So a one of the things that that comes of that, people from you can ask those corporate partners to do things like share to their supply chain partners. We've got groups that are in the that one of the companies does a cause for girls in East Africa. They do education work. That company talks to all their supply chain partners. They make shampoo and and cosmetic products. They talk to all their suppliers and get their suppliers involved. It's supporting the work that their charitable partner is doing because it helps the brand of the entire ecosystem. So there's Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm. Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: that part of it there. And one of the things that a lot of corporate partners will say is: look, I'd love to help you more. Tell me how I can help you without writing you a bigger check. Because they've got a marketing budget, that's the amount that they're a philanthropic budget, that's all they can do. This type of promotion is something they can do for free. And companies are actually kind of pretty good at marketing if you think about it. That's what they do all day long. So their ability to get the message out can be even better than your cause. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. I'll tell you another one that works really well for rural communities that I have utilized in my work over the years are your local media stations. You know, media stations, that's what they're in the business for. And for many media stations, they have they have a an opportunity for partnerships with nonprofits. And so I know in our local region, the media stations have, if you find a business partner and that business partner uses their media, they can give you minutes, like they can have they just give you minutes for your media. And sometimes it's not the same minutes that are in their bucket. So, you know, it's just beneficial. It's it's a way for us to create more partnerships between nonprofits and businesses. That's why the media stations do it. But I've done it in radio, I've done it in television. And neither of those medias are dead. You know, they're still really well utilized. And they know how to use some of the extended medias, like, you know, your iHeartRadio or your streaming platforms, they already have that infrastructure in place. And so you can get a big bang for your buck that way. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Well, and one of the things, your local community newspaper wants, like I've been told by the publisher of one that owns like 50 of the community newspapers around here, Matt said, Look, we want good content that shows what's going on in the community. So when you bring us a story about the impact that this cause is doing in the local community, we want to cover it. Now we don't have a lot of room to cover it. It costs us something to cover it. But he said, we're hungry for stories of that because it it's a positive thing that people want to know about. It feels connected to the community and the paper delivering it looks good to them. To them, they feel really good about being able to deliver that info. So you know, don't hold back on talking with your local community papers about, hey, is there a way we can give you st like don't say, can you help me? Because they'll think you're asking for money. Say can what kind of stories can we bring you that you would love to tell your community about? And get some guidance from them about the kind of structure that they want. Sometimes your community writer, you you can go right to the writer or the editor for that section and say, How can I help you get content for your stories? And they're going, please, thank you. I I have to come up with this stuff every week and I'm really, really over it. So there's that. The other thing is sorry, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, can go ahead. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: go ahead. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I was gonna just say, just along that lines, I have had I've worked for many nonprofits. I've had stuff be on the front page because there wasn't a lot of news that day. The other thing that you can do if you're a nonprofit approaching media and you're providing them stories is if you tell them that it's not time sensitive, like it's not a time sensitive thing, they'll save it for a day when they really need something. And so you'll get a much bigger splash. if you aren't fussy about when it goes out. So if you ha think about those stories that are kind of timeless, it's just a nice little tip to be able to Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: It's it and we've spent some time on it, but I just want to add one more thing before we're done. A lot of people say Giving Tuesday, it's getting complicated, it's getting tired, it's getting, you know, is is this really gonna work anymore? And how do we, especially for small causes, how do we stand out on Giving Tuesday? One of the things you can say to your corporate partners is say, Giving Tuesday is coming up. You support us all year long. Please, in your thing, today is Giving Tuesday. How about supporting the cause we care about, which is so-and-so? And then, you know, if you're looking for a place to give today, give to the cause we support. Here's the link. And they can get you visibility that goes way beyond because their in initial channels can can get you like a hundred times, a thousand times the distribution you might get. And it gets out into the community, and everybody goes, it's that endorsement thing. Hey, somebody's saying that this is a safe place to give. If somebody's trying to, you know, I need to check the box that's giving to so I need to give something. If you just made it easy for them because their brand that they like said go here, don't go there. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The ease. So the ease of giving is such a huge thing, you know, that we sometimes put time and effort into thinking about, but sometimes we don't think about like, you know, how important it is to make it easy. And I always tell people you want to make it so easy that whenever they're inspired, it's easy to give because you can't predict when they're going to be inspired. Like what it can be these mo the most ha you've probably experienced this. And if you have a great story that comes to mind, you know, but the most random update that produces a large gift, you know, it it could be shocking. You'll be like, What? Why? And so it it just was that they were sitting on it and you know, that that thing just hit at the right time and all of a sudden they were inspired to give. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Well, and it can it can even be smaller gifts. And this is the the funny thing is we preached the idea that you should do updates on your campaigns pretty regularly. Like tell people the results. And we had one cause which was called Harvest Project here in in North Vancouver. They're they're kind of a hand up, not a handout type charity. They do co counseling for people to get them out of poverty. and they were publishing their campaign and I'm going, Philippe, Philippe, you gotta go do an update. He's going, well, you know, like it just seems so much work. It's like it's like a blog post, dude. You go in, you type out a small thing about what's going on, it automatically delivers out to the donors that have come through this project project. And one of the things we do is we try and get people to break things up into smaller projects because a donor feels like they're making a bigger impact when the goal is smaller. So we, you know, they said, just post on that one the update of some of the news that had happened. And he posted and he came back the next day and he said, We got a thousand dollars or two thousand dollars worth of donations from donors we've never even heard of before. And it's like, yeah, like I haven't Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: been lying to you the whole time. We're really trying to get you to do good things for you. And, you know, that kind of epiphany that wait, if I say the good news, people will automatically share that to other people. Or, you know, like it's not perfect. It's some people will share a little bit of it. But if you reach a new donor from that and they go, my friend donated here, I'll donate too. New donor, now you got somebody you can continue to communicate with. Hopefully they become an advocate and they help you bring in somebody new. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. And raising that awareness, you this is really interesting because I do a lot of strategic fundraising, strategic planning with nonprofits. And so we look at nine different areas of generosity and do they have the engines built kind of underneath it? And I found very consistently that organizations don't really think about the donor journey. Like what happens? How are we getting people to learn about us? And then what do we do once they learn about us? How do we kind of move them along in the process? I think that one of the nice things about doing it by project is it naturally moves a person further and further into the work. And then you can have the success story, you know, the finished project at the end. And that's a nice move to be able to kind of attract people into the organization and you know, new people who you might not have seen or met in the past. and a way to process them into something deeper with your organization. And I n yeah, I say process. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Very much and like Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: It's the I know they're people, but we're moving them along. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: We're moving them through a process to try and help them become part of our movement. Like it's not just a they're not a donor, they're not there for a cashectomy or an ATM that we can draw on all the time. They're there because we want their energy to support us. Some of that energy be financial, some of it be advocacy, some of them might be volunteerism. So there's different ways that they can do it. But it it really is the nice thing about having small projects. You know, we say sometimes But break it up into micro projects, really tiny projects, is you get credibility every time you finish something. A lot of funding Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: no. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: on your website, your donor page is the your long tail, infinite. We're here forever. We're always going to need money. Please give us money. When you're doing a project, you can say, We got it done. Now, by the way, we have another project which you'd be interested in, but you've built the credibility, you delivered a result. And that the communication about that is one of the Best things you can do for donor retention. We lose so many people along the way every year. We're having to fight to replace them all the time. And a lot of that's because we don't we fall into what they call the forgettable zone in marketing. If you're only talking to them once every year or once every six months, they've forgotten who you are. And so if we Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yep. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: can remind them on a regular basis that we're doing good work with their money, they're more likely to stick around and give another gift. And that retention factor is I think really underrated in under underfunded kind of thing in in the work that Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: a lot of groups do. We focus on trying to go to get an another big new donor as opposed to cultivating and keeping the ones we've got, where by the way they might all of a sudden become a bigger donor because they now go, I trust you. You keep delivering results, I'll give you more. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I want to share with you like just a piece of information I learned recently. And then I wanna the retention stuff. You know, I worked in higher education, and every student represents a dollar amount that in our budget, right? And so in when we were looking at retention, every loss of a student reprim represented additional funds that had to be identified elsewhere, you know. And so I think in higher education, I learned that so well because. It's so it's very fluid. Like there is and I worked with a guy. I was actually thinking about him. I was thinking about doing a post about how good he was on retention. He could tell me down within usually three students how many what our number would be when I was registrar. And I mean, he was good. He he if he didn't know, guess what he did? He just went to them and he's like, Okay, where are you? Do you think you're coming back? Usually the three that he was unsure of. It was completely based on some financial need, you know, financial aid need or something like that. But he knew and that is so helpful. If we considered that more when we're looking at our fundraising and when we look at our list of donors and supporters and we think, okay, like, you know, if Daryl's not coming back this year, well, he gave a thousand dollars last year. That's a thousand dollars that we need to find someplace else. or replaced with addition with new donors. Like, do we have a strategy for that? Do we have a plan for that? So yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Yeah, yeah, very much. And you know, this is why we talk about the difference between what we're doing, which is trying to work on that group of maintaining those digital donors. It's it's really interesting that with the new donors that are coming on, where their advocacy is sometimes bigger than their budget that they they can support you, they may be only give able to give you twenty dollars. But if they get out there and they they kind of stump for you all the time because you're telling them that their $20 was worth it, they might inspire a few thousand dollars worth of giving. Some of the best advocates we've seen could only afford 20 bucks and they brought in 10,000. You Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: should be inviting them to your gala because these Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: are the people that care about you so much. They give to the amount that they can afford, and then they still give through their energy. That's we we tend to focus on wealth as opposed to activism and activity. And Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. That actually brings me to the piece of data that I told you about that I was going to give you. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Yeah, yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: it's it was a meta research project. I learned about it from Daniel Priestley. And they looked at so what they did was they would put stuff in front of people and then at the end of the month they would measure like which one of these do you remember, right? And they found out that you need to be seen at least 11 times in 90 days in order to be remembered. Okay. So So a lot of times, you know, nonprofit strategies for communicating out might be what once a month or, you know, maybe twice a month. So if if you're only communicating out twice a month, that means there's nine other times someone is gonna have to see your name in a month to remember you. it's Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: why I really advocate for, you know, every nonprofit should be emailing out. In a year, it should be at least 65 emails. That's once a week plus a couple of extra, right? Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Plus a couple of specials, yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And I think when it comes to like what you're talking about, we can do this at least weekly. You know, at least weekly we can say, hey, this is what happened. I know I used to have to do a report. I worked remotely, had to do a report every week about what I did. Guess what? Every week I had stuff that I'd done. I know. So yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Yeah, yeah, amazing. And this is where we we think a platform like fundraiser can really help because the emailing out to everybody, when we have to write an email, we go and get formal, we're trying to figure out who we're gonna do, dear so and so trying to figure it out. The nice thing about the social fundraising side is you make a blog post kind of thing. Hey, we're here. It can be more casual, it can be more conversational. And as a result, the communications can be feel way more friendly. And if you get one of those every week and the focus of it is telling you the good work that was done with your money, you're gonna open it, you're gonna look at it, you're gonna and so that that memorable zone, like the forgettable zone, is a really big problem for nonprofits, especially when we're told that we don't have the resources to go communicate all the time. I don't have the time for that. Mm-mm. You don't have the time for not that. Because that's why you've got a revenue problem that's causing all the rest of the problems is we're focusing on, you know, kind of some some of the wrong parts of the of the solution. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I mean really, and I, you know, think about it. It takes five minutes to write an update. It I mean, okay, if we're maybe it takes 20. 20 minutes out of your entire week, you have 40 hours. You're saying 20 minutes a week you're gonna spend on a communication out. That investment, that singular investment of 20 minutes a week is going to pay off in dividends over and over and over. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Over and over. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Because one of the things about having the updates on the campaign is that it's there's an activity feed with the the project. And so those updates are now a history. You get a new donor who comes to it and they can browse through the things that have happened already. And you might think that's not a big deal. They're going, these people deliver on what they promised. Because if it's all focused about that, the confidence level grows up and up and up because they can They can browse the feed if they want. They don't have to. We're not forcing them to read every output out update that was out there. But if you sharing a little photo or something like that, a snapped on the f on your phone. It doesn't have to be, it shouldn't be polished. It shouldn't be polished. Be human. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, I agree. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Be real. Be casual. Be your friend. Share it with a friend. That's all you're doing. And that Typing of content engages so much better than other types. And you know, we we could have we'll have to have a whole discussion about AI content and the part where people will feel abused if you're doing it, if you're overdoing it. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I say it's great to shape your own words, not necessarily to create any words for you. So and sometimes I'm guilty too. But you know, but we gotta have that balance where we're like consistently going back and trying to fix it, fix it, fix it, fix it. Yeah, me too. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Well I I try and ask it, did I make sense? I did this and yeah, what was the thing that you took out of what I said? because there's that that place of I want my voice to come through and I don't want it to be blanded out, but I also want to know that I'm communicating effectively. And that's Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: sometimes I I might ramble a little, but no ramble or pontificate. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yep, I know. Well, we're already at 30 minutes for this conversation. So like I can't ever these go so fast. They are not long enough. I but I I don't quite have time in me yet to do the long form three-hour conversations like Joe Rogan, you know. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Those yeah, and if I don't have the time to listen to them, so that you know, like I'm I get it. But we can always talk again. And I think next time we'll there's some other topics that we'll probably tackle along the way Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: 'cause we're both on the journey of learning more about this as we go. And we've only been doing it, you know, like what is it, sixteen years now. I mean sometime Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: soon we're gonna get good at it. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, that's right. So well, thanks for joining us, Cyril. You want to let our listeners know where they can find you? Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Yeah, sure. so look for fundraiser, f u n d r z R dot com is where you can learn about the platform. Connectionpoint.com and you can learn more about the company. And if you look for me on LinkedIn, Daryl Hatton, it's just my name. DM me if you've got some questions or or you know, reach out and connect and happy to help out. We do a fair bit of advocacy work and and you know kind of free consulting about what crowdfunding strategy is all about, because when we make our community stronger like this, we eventually benefit. We know that. So how can we help out? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, the sum is greater than the whole. So or the the sum is Daryl Hatton | ConnectionPoint: Absolutely. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: greater than the part. So yeah, that's perfect. Well, thank you. Thank you all for listening. That's it for today's episode of Nonprofit 411. Thank you, Daryl, for being here and sharing what you've worked and you know what what you're working on. I refer people to you often, so I hope that we can continue to have tons of conversations. For my listeners, if this Is something if this conversation was useful, do me a favor, subscribe wherever you're listing right now so the next episode shows up automatically in your feed. And if you want more between episodes, come find me on LinkedIn. I'm always there. I'm Sarah Barton, and I post their most days about building fundraising that lasts. I'll see you soon.