Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 379: Welcome to Gear Talk - MeatEater Network Debut

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Ep. 379: Welcome to Gear Talk - MeatEater Network Debut · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: All right, welcome to an episode of gear Talk where
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Jordan Bud and I be honest but tell us we're
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: gonna talk all things gear. We just started this. We're
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: both super excited about it. Um. We love talking gear
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and we want to help you understand and know and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: just feel more comfortable, uh talking about gear, Understanding gear,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: making good good gear, buying decisions when you're out there.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: It's a big world of hunting gear these days, and
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: uh hopefully this podcastle um help you make some of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: those decisions and get you out there in the right gear.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: But my I just want to give a little bit
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: on myself. We're gonna do a little host intro bio today.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I spent twelve years as a hunting and fishing guide,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: mostly down in Colorado, a little bit, uh little, did
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit of guiding in Old Mexico, but mostly Colorado.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Also did four years at the same time, I did
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: four years in retail, which was good. Um. I didn't
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: necessarily always like uh folding T shirts and sweaters, but
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I did get to sit through a lot of pre
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: technical gear what do they call that, phil when like
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: a rep comes to the store, and then clinic gear
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: clinic training. Yeah. Um, and just I enjoyed that part
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: about about selling retail. You know, it's cool to learn
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: all about the new, latest and greatest and stuff, and
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: it just it opened up my sort of my experience
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: with all the gear that's out there by just being
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: able to work with, you know, all different types of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: brands and products in the store, which was Starmaking Sports
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and Edwards Colorado. If you ever down in that neck
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of the woods, which is Eagle County, Colorado, go check
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: it out. It's a cool store. And then I've also
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: done ten years in outdoor TV production as many of
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you know, producing Meat Eater television and uh doing Me
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Eat podcast with Steve and now doing my own show
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: on the Hunt with the Honest Pitelis, which is available
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: on the Meat eat or YouTube channel. So, yeah, short
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: little bio on me Jordan's let me hear, let me
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: hear what your last twenty years have been all about? Yeah.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So started, uh originally from northwest Nebraska on a family ranch.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Was where I grew up and went high school and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. Um, So I started guiding there and
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: that's really how I started, I mean just getting into
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: hunting stuff. I started guiding and then I really like
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: cameras also when I was in high school and college,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: so picked up camera started filming just uh, you know,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: meeting people and making contacts. One thing led to the other,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and I started filming for an outdoor television show and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: that took me all over the place. And that's really
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: we're like the Western hunting bug I think came from.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I always wanted to go out west before
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: and do my own hunts. But then when I started filming, um,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you know, that obviously opened my eyes to a lot
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: of things. And I got a lot of experiences in
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of different places, on a lot of different hunts.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And that's I was able to try a ton of gear,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you know, doing that, a bunch of different gear and
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different situations and environments. And I just
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of a gear junkie anyways. And I don't
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: know really why other than I just like knowing what
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I take and more so the why behind why you're
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: taking it. And uh, that's one of the reasons I'm
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: super excited for this podcast is to you know, bring
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: all that so consumers can make a more educated purchase,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you know, going on some of these extreme hunts that
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: you only get to go once in a lifetime. On. Yeah,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: that's a a good point about like being a gear junkie,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and and then it kind of transitions right into how
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: much money you spend on gear. I felt like there
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: was years for sure where I was guiding Elk Counts
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: and I was spending as much money on the gear
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: to to go and guide as I was probably making
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: throughout the whole season, just because I was so into it,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: you know, trying different foots or backpacks or whatever. And uh,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I've never been known to be like a great real
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: frugal you know, with the with the cash, but uh,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I guess that's what's hopefully helped me in to give
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: me some experience so I can do this job better. Now, Um,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I wanna you didn't really hit on it too hard,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: but I want to ask you a question you've been on?
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  Speaker 1: How many sheep punts have you been on? Not for
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: your personal self but just all total? How many sheep
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: punts I'm pretty sure are I think it's sixteen now, oh,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: with this last Wyoming hunt that I filmed last year,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: and how many of those have been in Alaska? There
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: have been one in Alaska and that was mine. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so that was your first time up there. Sheep hunt
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: was when you went. Yeah. Everything else was desert big
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: horns in Mexico. Uh, I've done three, three or four
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: of those, and then um in Wyoming a bunch of
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: big horn sheep punts was most of it. Um one
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: stones in the Yukon, and then my dollar sheep in Alaska,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: so only only one in Alaska. What was the first
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: thing we wanted to hit on Jordan's I pulled a
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: listener question out um talking about what's a key item
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that you change in your pack from early to the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: mid season. So that would just be in my mind
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: considerations of the weather changing more so probably than anything,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: start getting snowstorms in that like late September, early October
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and then on through October, I suppose. Um, So yeah,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think one of the bigger things for
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: me is that temperature dropping and wanting to add in
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: my own compadre puffy pants into the mix to make
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the early mornings of glassing and later evenings a little
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: more comfortable. Yeah. Man, I love those pants, and a
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: lot of times with those pants I've come to not
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: packing even on the back country hunt, not packing long
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: underwear and just doing regular pants and the uncompagre of
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: puffy pants because I know that we have zip off
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Long John's now, but it's even easier, I think, to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: zip off those uncompagres, and those things are so much
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: warmer and so much thicker, and um, like you said,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: kind of seems like something you're gonna wear first thing
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and then last thing in the day, and so it's
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: really easy to zip them off, cram them into the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: bio of the pack, and not really pull them back
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: out until later. So I like them. Although it might
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: be a little bit heavier than going Long John's, like,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: it's definitely way way warmer. But yeah, that's a nice
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: piece of gear. Um I was gonna go with. I mean,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: obviously closed in general, you're just gonna be packing a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: little bit more because you're gonna have to just have
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: more installation, you know, to stay warm. But I would
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: say that one of my main like items of gear,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of a two part thing, but it's
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: like shelter and then like the sleeping system because early
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: season I'm always just trying to like push it and
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: go as light as possible with the lightest sleeping bag
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and the lightest shelter as possible, because you know, even
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: if you get a little wet or if something crappy
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: happens in early September, it's usually just not gonna last,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you know, and it's not gonna be enough to drive
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: me out of the mountains. But like if that happens
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: in October and you get kind of miserable, boy, it
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: is very easy for that to push and back back
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to the trailhead. So um, I'm gonna go to definitely
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: a zero degree bag. Like I like to sleep warm
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and like to be super comfy, and so if it
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: gets into October at all, I'm going zero degree bag
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: even late September sometimes, and I'm happily going to carry
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: that extra little bit of weight. And then there's gonna
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: be no more tarp shelters or like just like the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: super lightweight stuff, I want a more robust shelter that
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I can really count on to stand up to the wind.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna make sure that I got all my guidelines
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: set up. I got plenty of steaks, you know, to
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: handle a wind event or handle like a heavy snow event.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: And then if I know or if I think it's
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be on the colder side, Like I'll pack a
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: floorless shelter like a again depending on how many people
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: are gonna be in it, but like a seek outside
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Simmarron or Red Cliff, that I can have a stove
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: in and burn wood and be super comfy. Like I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: know a d for a fact that I've been in
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: a ton of just really good hunting conditions really because
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: you like it when it's cold and it's snowing and stuff.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It just keeps the animals on their feet more. But
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: if you can't stay comfortable in those conditions, you know
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: you're not going to be out there. But having that
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: shelter that you can come back to in the evenings
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: light of fire, warm up, dry out, some gear, sleep
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: super comfy and toasty, it keeps you out there and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: thus hopefully makes you more successful. Yeah, huge mental boost
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: being able to to come back after a long day
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and uh let the fire. It really changes your attitude
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: or it can um and make you a little more
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: excited about having to uh you know, get up early
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the next day and go out and do it again.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: So that's one thing on my list as well, is uh,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: start thinking about when you you know you get snowstorms,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: especially that early October time frame. Seems like those snowstorms,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: just like late September, really wet and sloshy. They might
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: melt pretty quick, but also means they're pretty wet and
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: um being able to go light a stove and dry
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: all your stuff out again, it's just gonna let you
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: be more comfortable and stay out there longer. So that's
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: something certainly on my list. Oh yeah, it's a dent.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: The difference between miserable and like very content and happy. Yeah, yeah,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: it makes it makes a huge difference. A simple thing
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: called fire. Yeah, that's another thing that's definitely got to
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: be considered later too. I mean other things to go
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: right along with that, like fire starters one you've got
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to be thinking about. I think a little bit more,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: especially for the safety side of things. If you get
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: in a situation, you have to start one. So I
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: really like that pyro putty. Have you used that? I
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: haven't used actual pyro putty. I have something similar that's
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: called like a as a bit cube, which is actually
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: used for they make a whole there's a whole like
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: cooking system, stove system that uses these little cubes um,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: but it's basically like a small little cube. I don't
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: know how much it weighs. It might be like the
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: size of my thumb weighs the same as my thumb,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: but it'll it burns for ten minutes, one little cube.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's should give you ample time to
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you know, add on your kindling and whatever and get
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: yourself a ripper going yeah, yeah, I think a good
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: fire starter is good, like very flammable to give you
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: a good base to start with. And then I mean
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I usually take a tarp with me all the time anyways,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: but I would say, especially when the weather starts, to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: turn a tarp to block the wind and shelter you
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: from the elements if there's just a squall that comes
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: through something. So it's just like a small tarp, super
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: pacable something else that I always have with me. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: when we transition into those later months, like yip, I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: was gonna say that something that I change, but it's
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: not really a change because I like to carry an
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: arrow will net gator in the hotter part of this
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: season to keep the sun off me. But then I
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: usually always have a net gator too packed in for
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: when it gets colder. And man, I feel like it
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: is one of those pieces of gear that just can
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: really save my butt because I'll just have it. It's
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: weighs nothing. It's so small. I mean, it weighs like
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the amount of the same amount of like a handkerchief,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and I'll have it tucked way in a pocket. And
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: if I'm sitting somewhere and it's been a while, I
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: feel like myself I'm getting cold. Man, I hopefully I remember,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: but I put that sucker on and it just seems
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like that actual little tighter layer around my neck insulates
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: all that blood moving, you know, between my body and head,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and uh, just seems to make a world of difference.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: So net Gator, let's feel like it's one of those
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: pieces of gear that super lightweight, doesn't take up a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: lot of space. Alright. Next segment is ask the experts.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Matt Derosier's from First Light is here with us to
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: explain breathable laminates. And that's like that little thin layer
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: that's inside of your water proof raine jacket and inside
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: other jackets that basically keeps like the big heavy moisture
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: from the outside world from coming in. But yeah, it
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: lets the steam and the you know, sort of sweaty
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: environment that you've created on the inside to move out
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: through it. So MAT's gonna help us understand exactly what
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: those are, how they work, and um, what you should
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: expect of them. Um when you go and buy a
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: rain jacket or another jacket that has a breathable laminate
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: in it. Take it away, Matt, you want to give
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a little intro on what you do for first Light. Yeah, So,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: like Jordan's said, my name is Matthew Roger's. I'm the
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: senior category manager of Western Big Game product at first Light. UM,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and essentially the scope of my role is to kind of,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I guess like be the custodian of overseeing the total
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: business of of what we make and how that and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: how those products life cycles track in the market and
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: ensuring we're addressing the correct needs of the consumer in
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the market and building the correct gear. So it kind
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of spans responsibilities across the business scope, the creative scope,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the market, the scope of the market, and then working
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: with our design development teams to ensure that those needs
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I see, um, from both consumers in the market, etcetera,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: are being met correctly inappropriately. UM. So it's it's kind
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: of a left brain right brain role. I guess sometimes
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you're you're all numbers and sometimes you're creative. And I
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: find it very fun because every day is a little
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: bit different. But um, you kind of get to put
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: your hands on everything in terms of bringing new products
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to life. Awesome. Let's just go to like breathable lamb
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: in it one oh one and just really like not
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: even looking at it from a first light perspective, but
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: just sort of, you know, explain when someone's like talking
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: breathable lambinates are looking at breathable lamb and it's like,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: what exactly is that and what does it do? Yeah,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So there's a tremendous amount of science and engineering and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: work that goes into these laminates that essentially are hidden
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: in your garments. Um. They're they're usually sandwich between you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the outer layer and the inner layer of a garment. Um.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: So you have your lining facing your skin or your
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: base layer and your outer layering in between. There you
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: have these very thin, flexible layers of material. And there's
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: two types. There's usually have either a microporous laminate or
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like a monolithic laminate. Microporous is there's teeny teeny holes
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: in it. That won't let it drop. Their too small
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: out a microscopic low will for a drop of water
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to pass through it, but they're large enough that condensing
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: moisture vapor from your body like sweat, can pass through
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: it and escape the garment, So they're they're repelling any
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: moisture that's getting to them. A droplet of rain, for instance,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: can't get through it, but your moisture vapor when you're
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: sweating as it's condensing, is leaving the garment due to
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the tiny holes and those layers, those microporous layers are
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: usually what's considered a hydrophobic layer. And it's sounds very technical,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: but like it's it's a phobic. It's it's like a phobias.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So the layer actually repulses. It's like, for lack of
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a better word, scared. It has a phobia of water
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: and pushes water away from itself. And that's kind of
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the really traditional type laminate you'll see in most garments.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: You know. That's where like that's kind of like where
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: you're to use a household name like gortex uses a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: traditional microporous laminate that's hydrophobic, and that's kind of like
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: where you're your o g laminate science starts. Who's condensing
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: it or how is it actually condensing? Like it's like
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the moisture is leaving my body and it's in the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: space between me and the jacket. Where does the condensing happen? Oh,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: your body heat is gonna is what's condensing as it's drying.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It's it's becoming gaseous within the jacket from the heat
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: within the jacket, from the heat with your body. So
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: it's as it's drying, it's returning to a vapor of vapors,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a state of vapor, and that's what can actually be
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: pushed down. Now that's not to say every droplet of
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: sweat that's coming out of your body is gonna, you know,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: be pushed out of the jacket and returned to a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: gas to state. But like that clammy feeling when you're
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: sweating and it's getting humid in a in a jacket
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: under high exertion, that's water vapor. That's sweat in a
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: gas to state, and that's what you want to push
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: out because it's actually you don't want that vapor to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: actually condensed inside the jacket because then you have a
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: bunch of water droplets forming inside the jacket and getting
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you wet a second time. So you want it to
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: condense itself out of the jacket. Does that make sense?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: You're staying like condensed once it's outside of the jacket.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: You want it to you want it to leave the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: jacket before it's condensed back to a liquid. It's almost
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: like a greenhouse, you know, like your greenhouse gets humid
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and has water vapor in the air because of the
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: humidity being trapped in there, and what you want the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: jacket to do is be releasing as much of that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: as possible, you know. I mean most of the time,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: what people are looking at breathability ratings, they want the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: highest breathability rating of the highest ret rating. That's saying
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: that when you have that humid gas in the air
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: inside the jacket, it's getting pushed out of the jacket
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: before it becomes liquid again and absorbs into your insulation
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: or your base layer, et ceteras. You really want it
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: out of the jacket before it becomes water again. Okay.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: And like the simplest form, it's literally like a very
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: when you say very thin layer, like how thin is it? Like?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Is it even like if you if you're just holding
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: up a piece of a breathe able laminate, Like, can
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I see through it? Is it that thin? Usually not,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: you can't see through it. It's usually like a you know,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: they're usually like grays and silver's um. If it was
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: if it was like more of a a knit, you'd
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: probably see through it, but then it would let a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: lot of water through it. But I mean to actually
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: hold one a layer of that laminate, they're so thin,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: it's like it's like cellophane thin. It's you'd almost be like,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I can't believe this stops water. They're so ultra thin um.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And it's really just the chemistry that goes into them
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and how they react with you know, when they come
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: into contact with both varying states of liquid that makes
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: them waterproof and allows them to breathe at the same time.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: It's it's really incredible if you think about it, it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: something so thin does that. And and that's I think
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: that's another good point, you honest, is that's why it's
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: so imperative to have like a good lining in a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: jacket and protect those laminates, because once they become contaminated
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: or take over exposure that you know, they start to fail.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: So having like a lining in a jacket is imperative
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: that keeps the oils from your skin out of it.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: It keeps dirt, it keeps blood when you process an animal.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: It keeps all those like external factors from getting into
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: the laminate and very quickly ruining it. And that's kind
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: of where you see the separation in terms of quality
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: of gears. It's like, well, this is constructed in a
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: in a sense that after a season or after a
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: hard hunt, it's not going to fall apart. It's going
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: to the lambin. It's not going to be flaking off
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: or coming apart. It's protected and you're gonna get years
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: of use out of this versus a cheaper jacket where
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: that laminate gets contaminated quickly and it's it's a one
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: season type deal. Okay, you were saying there's another kind
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of laminate though, that this one that you explained. It's
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: like gortex is a you called it microporous, yep. And
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: then what's the other kind. So there's monolithic laminates, which
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I guess kind of subject to the word
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: a monolith is a is a singular, never interrupted sheet.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So you'll have these don't have holes in them. It's
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: almost literally like similar. I guess to just create a
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: like a layman's term to understand it. It's almost just
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: like a sheet of cellophane. It doesn't look like cellophane,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: it doesn't act like cellophane. But there's no holes. It's
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: it's an uninterrupted continuous sheet of laminate that can be
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: laminated in a bi component way, which you can have
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: a microporous and a monolithic stack together. Um, those don't
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: have holes. What those do usually when you see a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: monolithic laminate is there what's called hydrophilic. Now, remember the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: microporous was hydrophobic and pushed it away. Hydrophilic is actually
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: going to attract moisture that it finds into itself and
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: then work to overtime condense it out of itself. So
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: having a monolithic layer, it can attract both sweat in
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a garment or water that's made it through let's say
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: a microporous layer or through a seam. It can attract
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: that into itself and trap it and then over time
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: work to push it out of the jacket again and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: condense it out of the rain layer. So that's where
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: you kind of see like bi component laminates, you get
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a microporous and a monolithic layer, one hydrophobic, one hydrophilic,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: but they're working in tandem together two stop any precipitation
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: from actually making it to you internally while also moving
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: your sweat that those condensed vapors out of the jacket
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: to keep you comfortable and dry internally. Okay, Jordan, any
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: questions on breathable laminates. I think the only thing I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: had was you talked about like a rating system. Is
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that something that like the consumer sees that in some
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: marketing with some garments of like, hey it's X breathability.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: mean a lot of times you'll see UM, historically you've
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: seen m v TR rates, which is moisture vapor transfer rates. UM.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: You see those in a lot of places, and that
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: actually comes from that actually comes from other industry, is
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: outside of textile industries, which I mean you can get
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: into a whole theoretical discussion about that, UM, but those
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: are essentially looking at how many grahams squared of moisture
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: vapor over a twenty four hour period can be pushed
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: out of the jacket, so in a gaseous state, which
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: if you think about it, is like in a twenty
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: four hour period doesn't really help you at the moment
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: in a hunt. It might be relevant to and over
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to drawing overnight, but I mean, I I work with
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: this stuff, and I don't you know, to look at
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: how much area a gash a gasso is uh condensed
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: liquid spreads over the inside of a jacket and moves
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: at how many millimeters over twenty four hours, that's a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: lot of work to figure out of how breathable this
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: jacket is. UM. What we've looked at is actually called
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: r E T testing a rhet a rent level, and
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that's kind of a more direct test that was developed
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: to look at under exertion. UM. It's actually people like
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: on a treadmill at certain ten picture ranges, what is
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the comfort level and what is and that's based on
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: looking at like what the temperature level is, how long
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: it takes to sweat. There's very there's a bunch of
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: factors that go into that lab testing, but it's actually
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a direct um reciprocation of how comfortable you would remain
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: at what levels of activity in those garments. So it's like, okay,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: we're trying to build a tank of a system right
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: now where you know, let's say you're you're in Prince
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of Wales Island and it's thirty four degrees thirty five
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: degrees and dumping rain. So the priorities for this to
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: be absolutely shut down to water passing through it, and
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you're already in cold tempts. But then you might say, hey,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: the r T test on a new lighter weight, packable
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: rain system where you might be in the inner mountain
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: rockies and you're in a rainstorm, but you're still expending
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of energy. It's still let's say fifty five degrees,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: it's forty five degrees, it's warmer. How long do you
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: stay comfortable in that system and that type of climate
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: versus is a system at thirty eight degrees that you're
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: not moving in. So it's more of a I think
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the REET testing is something that's that's more applicable when
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: we look at these because it gives you a more
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: real world benchmark of how the user is gonna feel
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: and how it's going to perform as compared to just
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you know, a a volumetric measurement over twenty four hours
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of a gas moving through a textile got it. So
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: how do you get a jacket tested for rent. We
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: work I mean we work with you know our mills
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: UM that then have we have like third party testing.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: It's really cool. UM they have literally like weather chambers
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: UM which we do all the different testing on. And
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: then they have like mannequins who are in the simulated
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: situations and they have sensors tracking that, and then they'll
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: it'll even go to a point where we'll have people
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: going the weather chambers and where the garments through like
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: her simulated hurricane conditions, light rain conditions, and will you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: look at what came out of the testing on paper,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and then look at you know, the photos and videos
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: of how the guy comes out of the chamber or
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the cal whoever's wearing it, and like, oh, well he's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you know, And that can also be beneficial as you
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: might be like, hey, this thing's this textile superwaterproof, but
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: he just came out of the chamber and hey the
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: hood opening is too big because the top of his
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: his T shirt is soaking wet. So you know, it
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: helps in a lot of ways to identify not only
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of just like those benchmark rhet testing and m b
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: TR and waterproof rating stuff like that, it also measures
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: it also kind of helps you see where there could
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: be inherent design flaws in places for improvement. It helps
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: you look at durability so that we use labs um
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: kind of all over the world to do that, depending
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: on how and where we're producing this, and um, it's
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: actually very interesting to look at dang. Yeah, well, should
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: we get into uh, the like why there's four and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: a half layers in the OMEN? Then Jordan's yeah, I
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, So to bring it full circle, so
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the OMEN is four and a half layers, and that's
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I think. I mean, I think that number can be
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: a little misleading at times because you hear four and
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: a half layers and you're like, oh, oh god, um,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: but not all those layers are actually layers. So on
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the on the furthest outer layer, you obviously have your
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: face fabric that you see that's where your cameras printed
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: or your your color way. Like what's facing the rain.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Let's say, um, that is a full polyester plane weave.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And that's while that sounds just kind of not exciting,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the important thing there is the plane we've reduces geometry
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: or structure on the face of that fabric. Because you
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: also have your d W R, which I'll speak to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: in a second. But d w R will always inevitably
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: reach a point of saturation and start to fail. And
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: that's why you need That's why you need the laminates
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and the membranes in the jacket, the waterproof breathables. But
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: that plane we've being so flat and plainly woven, there's
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: a structure, there's no geometry like you know, there's no
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: ridges like in your genes, let's say, because once that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: dw ARE fails, the isotopes get crushed and start allowing
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: water through. Any geometry is gonna absorb water and make
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: it easier for water to start getting in the face.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: So having that plane weave is critical, and it also
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: reduces any opportunity for snags and tears. You know, it's
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's easier for a BlackBerry sticker to brush off
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: a plane weave than something that has structure to it
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: that a thorn can grab into. So it also protects
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: the jacket um. And then we also used C zero chemistry,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: which is a non polyfluorinated dwr UM. That's a big word,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: but I think people, I mean, we've seen in response
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to it, a lot of people ask questions about polyfluorinated.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: So I think I think the outdoor community is very
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: aware of how bad polyfluorinated dw rs and chemicals are. Um.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: They basically get on you, they get an environment. Um.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And if they're they're not good, they're they're horrible stuff.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: So um, Europe's already outlawed it. So I think, just
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: in a responsible fashion, both for the environment and for ourselves,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and just in staying compliant with different governments in different worlds,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: polyfluorinateds are going. UM. So we used to see zero
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: d w R, which performed actually better than past polyfluorinated
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: dwrs in our testing that we spoke to. UM. But
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and it's not nearly it's not as nasty of a
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: chemistry to be coding. So it performed better and it
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: was greener, is the simplest way I can say it
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: does the dw R account as one of the layers. No, sorry,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we count that as part of the face layer. When
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: we say four and a half it, um, so that's
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: your first layer, that's your face. And I mean I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: said a lot there, but that's all I think extremely
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: relevant to how the garment actually works. Yeah, it mean
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: it sounds to me like if you if you looked
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: at it under a microscope, that first layer we'll just
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: look very smooth and instead of bumpy, which you know,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: if you pour the water on a smooth surface, it's
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: going to roll off easier than if you put it
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: on a bumpy surface, right, I mean hit it on
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the head. That's like exactly. So that's your first layer.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Your second layer is a microporous polyurethane lambing it like
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I spoke to. Your third layer is a monolithic polyurethane
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: layer like I had spoken to. And then we have
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: a half layer that is actually screen printed onto that
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: monolithic layer. And what it is is we always talk
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: about thirty seven five active particles here at First Light,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: and we've actually put those particles it's an active carbon
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: particle into a screen print and printed it and you
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: can see it in like a pattern. When you look
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: inside the omen jacket underneath the lining fabric, you can
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: still see this repeating pattern. And that's that. And what
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: those active carbon molecules are doing are attracting. They're helping
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to attract that water vapor, that condensed water vapor as
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: you're sweating into themselves and into that monolithic layer and
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: they're heating up and they're attracting your infrared heat. So
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: as they heat up and attract that water, that condensation,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: they continue pushing it and keeping it as a vapor
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: because they're moving so fast with your infrared heat and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: pushing that sweat and humidity inside the garment into the
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: laminates and then out of the jacket. So that's kind
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: of where we've had feedback that you know, OMEN doesn't
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: get clammy, it doesn't get that humid feeling, and that's
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: because the thirty seven five, those carbon molecules are working
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: to keep moving that condensation actively out of the jacket
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: with the laminate. And then after the that the jackets
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: finished with a lining um which is just black on
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the OMEN and it doesn't Again, it's kind of like
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the face fabric. You wouldn't really think it's something real
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: sexy to talk about. But back to what I said before,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: is having that lining there is keeping the oils and
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the dirt, blood, anything else in the environment and from
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: your body from contamin aiding those laminates and ultimately giving
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you a garment that doesn't fail and start leaking after
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: a season or two season. It's giving you a garment
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: that can resist contamination and actively let the laminates continue
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to do their job for year after year. And that's
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: the four and a half layers. So you have face
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: fabric one, two laminates, a half layer of the third
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: we consider we say the thirty seven five screen prints
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: a half layer. I mean, if you really chopped it
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: up in all terms of layers, it's like a point
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: one percent of a layer, but we just kind of
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: call it out that way. And then you're that final layer.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Is that lining protecting the laminates. Yeah, it does sound
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: like a lot of layers because I think most of us,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I mean that remember usually it was like a three
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: layer rain jacket is kind of most common, right, ye yep,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: And that's that's usually you know, face fabric, a microporous layer,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and then a lining layer. So they're they're they're losing
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: that by component, they're losing that second monolithic layer are there,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and they're not having that half layer thirty seven five
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: we use. And I mean the intention of OMEN was
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: always to build like, you know, a severe weather storm
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: shelter and kind of lead the charge as a new
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: era of inclement weather gear follow weather gear for first light.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of just been like, hey, let's let's
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: build this for the absolute worst of the worst, Like
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I said, like thirty five on Prince of Wales and
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: in raining all day while you're glassing. That was that
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: was the intention, and also an environment I guess Prince
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of Whale is still a good example where you can't
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: rip the thing. You know, you got flown in, you
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: have flown in on a super cub and you have
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: one set of gear. You don't want to go radio
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: out there. Hey we've got to leave because I slash
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: my jacket on a you know, the hunts over because
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I don't have a rain layer anymore. It's I kind
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: of wanted to be something that's just out of your
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: mind and not a concern, and that was that was
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: the point of omen for me, and that's why we
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: ended up with a four and a half layer. Yeah,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I've personally been purposefully, personally, purposefully been busting brush in
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: that jacket, just trying to put some holes in it,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and uh, yet to succeeds. So if it's one thing,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: it's tough really well, I know, I mean we've we've
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: talked in depth about this for a long time, so
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: it's good to hear that it's not busting open on you. Yep.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I haven't done a full season and yet, but soon
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: enough I'll be able to report back to you about that.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: What about you, Jordan, I used it? Yeah, you had
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: it up in Alaska on your sheep hunt quite a bit. Yeah,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I had it in Alaska on the sheep hunt. And
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: then when we got back, he took it to Wyoming
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: on a sheep hunt and you know, on and offul
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: horse on that hunt, and courses are hard on things,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and it was it seemed to be. It was fine.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And then later later season when it snowed, I was
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: wearing the pants to keep my regular pants dry. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I mean really no complaints on it. I really like it. Awesome, awesome, Hey,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: real quick, I was gonna ask what, uh it's I was.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm always hoping that we can sort of
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: educate the uh you know, the listener is to be
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: like a better consumer. So if they're out shopping jackets
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that have breathable laminates in there, what's like a takeaway
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: that you can give them? They're like, yeah, next time
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: you're out looking at it, you know, some outerwear and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: you're thinking about breathable laminates and what they're gonna do
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: for you. It's like a simple way that they can
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: apply what they learned today to what they might buy.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: That's a great question, UM. And you know, each each
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: company in our industry speaks to ratings differently. UM builds
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: different systems for different purposes. I mean some some companies
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: only gonna build one set of rain gear for all.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Some are gonna do kind of what we're doing and say, hey,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: we have like a the worst possible case scenario system,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: we have an intermediate system, and we have like maybe
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: once a year in archery season, you pull this jacket
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: out for fifteen minutes. I guess I think owing and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: being realistic with what you really expect to encounter and
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: what you expect to do is to me the benchmark
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: of where to start shopping. I guess. I mean the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: ratings just aren't published like one through ten. It's not
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: like you have a one rating and a ten rating.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It's it's a lot different and a lot of companies
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: withhold that. I mean a lot of mills and labs
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and stuff who build these laminates they do withhold it.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: It's not published information for a lot of reasons. You know,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: they're protecting proprietary information. They're protecting intellectual property. And I
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: think sometimes ratings can be misleading because I guess here
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: this might answer be honest this previous questions, Like people
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: can get so hung up on a rating and a
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: number um that they failed to buy what conditions they
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: actually needed for So they're so hung up on saying, hey,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: this has a this has a twenty five thousand breatheability. Well,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: all it takes to be better is a thousand and
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: one breatheability. Now, technically that's better, But is that true
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that that garments better? Um? I don't think so. So
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I think ray things published can be a little misleading,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: and most people aren't trained to really understand what the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: ratings mean or even know how those tests are actually done. UM.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Testing can be manipulated in labs, and we all know.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think Greg said it in one of
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the original white Tail videos is he's never killed a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: buck in a lab before. You know, like, just because
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: something does very well in a laboratory, it's a great start,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: But then really understanding the field conditions and how that's
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: going to perform for you in the field is more important.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: So I think I think ratings are a great thing
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: to be taken into account, but that's not the end all,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: be all, always of how something is gonna work for you.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks Matt, Yeah, absolutely, thank you. All right, well, um,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: you have to sign off for both of us. I
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: hate doing alectros. I'm gonna put it on you. Okay,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: we are going to sign off and let's see everybody
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: on the next episode. Bye to the house, Steve, does it?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: See everybody? M