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IFH 829: The Secret to Marketing Your Movie Like a Pro with Brad Wilke · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: twenty nine, Cinema Should make You forget.
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  Speaker 3: You're sitting in a theater, Roman Polanski.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
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  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
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  Speaker 1: the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
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  Speaker 3: sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
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  Speaker 3: your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
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  Speaker 2: That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: host Dave Bullis So.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: For today on the podcast, we have Brad Wilkie. Brad
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: is a screenwriter of Campbell Spiders and Paracom I'm the
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Brad holds an MBA from the University of Washington's Foster
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: School of Business, as well as a Master of Communication
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Digital Media from the University of Washington's Department of Communication.
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  Speaker 5: Brand is also the co.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: Founder of swe House Creative, a company that designs and
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  Speaker 4: executes digital and social media strategies for films and filmmakers.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: We talked about how to build an ONIONCE for your project,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: how to network, and working with the legendary Roger Corman.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: Brad, how are you, sir? Oh? Not bad, Daved, thanks
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: a lot, great to be here.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, I you know, I thank you very much for
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: coming on, Brad. You know, Brad's a question I always
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: ask everyone to get started. Is you know, how did
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: you get started in the film business.
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know it was it was a pretty
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: winding path that I took. You know, I went to
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: West Point of all places, so it was in the
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: army for five years after I graduated in nineteen ninety eight.
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: So that's how I ended up out here in the
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: Pacific Northwest at Fort Lewis. And during my time at
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: Fort Lewis, I you know, would spend a lot of
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: nights and weekends up in Seattle just you know, this
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: was before social media and before a lot of you know,
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: so much like everything was on the web, so you know,
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: just going to a lot of like film screenings and help,
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: you know, like just connecting. Like I was interested in film,
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: but didn't really know that it was like a career
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: path necessarily, even though I made a lot of short
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: like VHS movies as a kid growing up with neighborhood friends.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: So you know, ended up making a short film here
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  Speaker 5: in Seattle. I shot it on sixteen millimeter and edited
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: it on a steambeck. So would you know, spend my
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: day down to Fort Lewis and the army and then
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: come up here at night and you know, edit old
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: school style and then drive back down to Fort Lewis.
• 3:45
  Speaker 5: So that kind of got you know, my feet went
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  Speaker 5: in the business. And you know, I really enjoyed that.
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  Speaker 5: And the short film you know, did okay on the
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  Speaker 5: festival circuit, and you know, led to another one and
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: then I made, you know, and then it just kind
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: of blossomed from there, Like I ended up doing some
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: pre screening for the Seattle International Film Festival, and then, uh,
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: you know, came on board as a programmer, which is
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  Speaker 5: not a full time job by any by any stretch.
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: Just FYI, anybody out there, Yes, you you can make
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: a living as a programmer, but it's you know, those
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: kind of jobs are few and far between, so you know,
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  Speaker 5: it's definitely a labor of love, and uh, you know,
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  Speaker 5: also had been you know, continuing to write screenplays and
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: and ended up working through just literally a cold email
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  Speaker 5: that I sent to Jim Onnorski early early one morning,
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: when I was like on the verge of giving up
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  Speaker 5: screenwriting for good. I was just, you know, it was
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: one of those like moments, you know, you're staring into
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: the abyss and you know, and it turned out, you know,
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: it was it was great and that's turned into a
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: really fruitful writing relationship with Jim, and you know, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: then smart House started because I got laid off, like
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: I I during all as all of that was happening,
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: I'd started a nonprofit when I got out of the Army,
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: which led me to business school, which is something I
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: never thought that I would be doing. And from there
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: I got a kind of a concurrent degree Masters of
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: Communication and Digital Media, which which really laid the groundwork
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  Speaker 5: for a lot of the work we do at smart House.
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  Speaker 5: And was working for a pretty large global health nonprofit
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  Speaker 5: here in Seattle as their digital engagement strategist and got
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: laid off at a round of budget cuts and that
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  Speaker 5: hit only the external relations, so they lost you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: forty percent of their web team and I was part
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: of that, and that's really where I, you know, was
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  Speaker 5: just sort of like wondering why I have two kids?
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  Speaker 5: What am I going to do now? And I, you know,
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: I was like, well, I love movies. I you know,
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  Speaker 5: have a fair amount of knowledge about business and digital
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  Speaker 5: strategy and you know that world, and I progre you know,
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  Speaker 5: like all these things, and so I just was like, well,
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  Speaker 5: how can I combine those? And that's kind of really
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: how how smart House got off the ground, along with
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: you know, my business partner Brian Davis, like she you know,
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: wasn't just like I had started my own smaller company
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: and then we decided to join forces because you know,
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  Speaker 5: she is a publicist and I'm not. So it was
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  Speaker 5: kind of like a match made in film marketing heavens.
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: So that that's kind of like, you know, in a
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: nutshell kind of how things progressed.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's amazing you went to West Point. I
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: actually used to help out a social media group that
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: was connected to West Point. Okadd Yeah, they were called
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: like the Delco Friends of West Point. They found me
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: some randomly on the Internet one day and they were like,
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  Speaker 4: can we meet with you to discuss a social media strategy?
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  Speaker 4: And they were just you know, I mean we went
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: over everything, you know, and they would show me videos
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  Speaker 4: of West Point and all this other stuff, and it
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: was actually, it was actual pretty fascinating. A lot of
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: the stuff went over. So it's actually, again like I
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: always say, through this interview, through all these podcasts, I
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: always say, it's such a small world.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it really is. And especially you know, it's
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: what's really interesting is, you know, just kind of on
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: the topic of West Point, there are very few West
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: Point graduates, I guess is I was thinking of like
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: I was like cadets, like what's forgot what the call
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: momentarily old grads as we're called, who are involved in
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: the film industry. So and I feel like I'm very
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: fortunate to know as far as I know, like almost
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: all of them who are doing stuff, and they're doing
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  Speaker 5: some great stuff. You know, Sean Mallin just wrote and
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: directed Amra and Sam which came out through Draft House,
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  Speaker 5: And you know, there's a couple other guys, one of
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: them was working on The Army Wives as a staff writer,
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: and you know, people are doing some really cool stuff.
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  Speaker 5: Another friend of mine that was actually my classmate, Nick
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  Speaker 5: Paul Oshano, he just directed after raising a pretty large
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: sum of money on Indiegogo, kind of like a zombie
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: thriller set I believe at a military base firing range
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  Speaker 5: with his company. It's called Ranger Up. So I'm actually
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: looking forward to to seeing that. But you know, it's
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: it can kind of count like alumni and former graduate
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: who are who are in the uh, you know, entertainment industry.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: So it's a it's even smaller world as you get
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: you know, lower and lower into the weeds there.
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  Speaker 4: You know, Ranger Up sounds pretty good because you know,
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  Speaker 4: one problem I've always had a zombie movies, Brad, is
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  Speaker 4: you know the zombie apocalypse. You know, it happens, there's
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  Speaker 4: an outbreak. There's a group of survivors you know that
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  Speaker 4: are protagonists. We follow them. Well, the first time they
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: pick up a gun, they're crack shots. They're hitting head
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  Speaker 4: shots like you know, from like you know, a thousand
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  Speaker 4: yards away. Oh you want that zombie bam. I'm like,
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: and I'm thinking to myself, I mean that is an
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: amazing shot for a top marksman. And this person is
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: just randomly you know, picking up you know, a shotgun
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  Speaker 4: and hitting you know, so uh, I imagine in Ranger Up,
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  Speaker 4: if they're actually good at shooting zombies in the head,
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  Speaker 4: there's a good reason for it, now.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, right, Like that's a that's a great point, you know,
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  Speaker 5: and military people are some of the most critical when
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: it comes to, you know, films that involve the military,
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: you know, especially with you know, one of the scripts
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: that I wrote for Roger Corman with Jim Norsky Camel Spiders.
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: You know, the protagonist is a captain in the army
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  Speaker 5: who's back from Afghanistan, and you know, everybody's like, you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: pointing out like problems with his uniform and all these things,
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: and you know, and blaming the screenwriter, you know, like
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: I should never like never go on IMDb message boards,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: you know, like it actually like it kind of got
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: gave me like a very various If my skin wasn't
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: thick enough being in the film industry to begin with,
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: it got a lot thicker real quick after that movie
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: came out, and you know, everything, like, ah, a screenwriter
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: probably has no idea what the you know, it's like.
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: And here I am, like an Army veteran, you know,
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: who went to West Point, and you know, I don't
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: have any control over that, like every you know, a
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: lot of times like the screenwriter gets to blame.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after word from our sponsor and
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: now back to the show.
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: When things aren't right, and never gets the credit when
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: when things are right. So, you know, screenwriting, anybody who's listening,
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: is sometimes a very thankless profession.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: Very true, Brad, very true. I mean I've had friends
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: who have worked on like martial arts movies as you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: look stunt coordinators for instance, or fight choreographers, and you know,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: when the movie comes out, you know, some of their
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: friends are like, wait a minute, you know what what
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: is going on here?
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: You know, why are they throwing? Why is this you know,
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: grappler wrestler guy throwing punches And he's like, look, you
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: know that's what the director wanted. You know, it's out
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: of my hands.
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. It's so true. It's so true.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: So, you know, brand I wanted to talk to you.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: You mentioned working with Roger Corman, you know on a project.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: You know, how did you end up, you know, getting
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: to work with Roger.
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: Well, so I was not like I was working with
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: Jim Wnorsky for a project that was executive produced by
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: Roger Corman. So I got script notes and stuff. But
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: I live in Seattle, So this is an interesting kind
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: of scenario for screenwriters who don't live in you know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: Los Angeles or even New York City. So what happened
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: was I was watching you know, I've been a big
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: fan of B movies for my whole life, Like I
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: grew up watching some of Jim win Norsky's very films
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: like Dusk Stalker two and Chopping Mall and Not of
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: This Earth, you know, like fun you know, kind of
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: classic B movies. Right, And one night in like twenty
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: ten or maybe it was, No, it was two thousand
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: and nine, like the fall, like October of two thousand
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: and nine. So before I went to business school, and
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: I was kind of like at a low point, like
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: I was, you know, living with my current you know,
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: my wife now, but we were you know, not engaged.
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: Like it was kind of like what am I doing
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: with mine? Like I don't know what's going on? And
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: it was kind of in this like binge watching period
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: of horror films from Netflix and just whatever. Right, So
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: I got Chopping Mall one night, and I had seen
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: it before, so I was gonna watch it with the
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: I've seen it multiple times, but it's one of Jim's
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: you know, used to be called Killbots, and it's kind
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: of like a RoboCop in a mall.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, I've seen that movie. I have a not no,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I usually would have
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: like a bad movie marathon and shopping mall is one
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: of the films I always put in there, and some
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: people get it, and some other people are like, what
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: the hell is going on here there? They're security guard
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: robots or yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great.
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: And the backstory you know, behind that is you know,
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: I won't go into all of it, but you know,
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: Jim kind of made it, you know, in a very
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: short period of time in evenings, like they were shooting
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: in the you know, the mall that they shot fast times,
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: the Regemont High in when it was closed at night
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: and then they had to be out of there by
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: the morning. And you know, it was produced by Julie
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: Korman and Rogers didn't know that Jim was making it.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: Like it was just like really really funny story kind
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: of like the you know, like the golden age of
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: like the eighties kind of like anything goes filmmaking. But anyway,
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: so anyway, so I will listen to it with Jim's commentary,
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: and I was, I was like, man, you know, this
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: guy seems like a really smart, like seems like a
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: nice guy. Like I like wonder what he's doing now,
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: Like I, you know, I didn't know like he had
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: been like, you know, continuously working since like you know,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: nineteen eighty three or something like that, and you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: churning out a lot of you know, some some good
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: some you know, you know, the jury's out. I don't
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: want to say bad, but you know, like, uh, you know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: multiple films a year. So I looked him up on
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: IMDb Pro and I kind of had this idea in
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: my back of my mind. I was just like, I'm
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: just gonna write him an email. And I don't know
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: what I'm going to say, but I'm gonna write hi
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: an email. So anyway, so I did that, and sure enough,
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: on IMDb Pro, his contact information is right there, you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: on the on his like profile. And I was like, Okay,
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: I guess that's some sort of sign. I don't know
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: exactly what, and so, you know, and I and also
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: like I was not you know, drinking or high at
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: the time. This was all like, this was all done.
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: It was just really late and uh and uh, you know,
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: so I so I tapped out an email and then I,
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: you know, that morning, I kind of reread it and
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: just you know, kind of said like, I, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: been a fan of your films for a while, you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: and you know my actually screenwriter, and you know, I've
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: had some scripts that have placed in contests, but you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: I just nothing's ever really clicked with you know, I
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: can't remember exactly what I wrote, but you know, I said,
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: you know, if you need a second set of eyes
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: on something, or you know a project that needs, you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: to go from idea to you know, treatment or whatever,
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: you know, let me know. I'm you know, I'm I'm
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: your man. And uh, you know, I just had no
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: expect I'd never done it before either, so I had
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: no expectation of what the outcome would be. I was
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: just like, well, why not write nothing to lose? Like
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: I was, like I said, on the verge of like
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: just like throwing in the toll, because you know, if
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: you're writing without like an agent or a manager, it
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: can often feel like you're just kind of writing in
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: a vacuum and you know, your family might read something
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: or you know, but nobody really cares honestly. And U
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: you know, the next day, I think it was, got
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: an email back from him, you know, saying like hey,
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: thanks for the email, like, you know, seemed like a
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: smart guy, well written email. I'll give you a call
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: like well, you know, Like so, so we ended up talking,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: you know, either that later that day or the next day,
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: like very you know, in very short order, and had
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: a really good conversation. Like Jim's like, you know, no
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: matter what you would say about his films, like I've
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: never and I didn't even know the half of it,
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: but like, you know, he's he's just like a really
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: really smart like film person, Like he just knows how
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: movies work and he loves movies. And so we you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: kind of talked like I for a period after I
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: got out of the Army, I worked at Scarecrow Video
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: here in Seattle, which is like sort of like you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: like sort of a you know, pantheon of you know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: movie geeks. So I could kind of hold my own
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: with him, and He's like, all right, you know, so
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: here's what I'm gonna do. I don't know. You know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: I like you. It seems like, you know, he's smart
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: enough or whatever. And you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: send you the script. It needs a lot of work
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: to get a green light from Roger. You know how
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: he talks like, he's more like he's a lot of
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: work to get a green you know, he kind of
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: tie like really really gruff, and and he's like, so
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna send it to you. Give it a read,
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: and then I want you to rewrite the first ten pages.
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: And here's the stuff. I want you to concentrate, you know,
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: focus on this. You know this needs to be punched up.
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: This needs to you know. He's like, you know, take
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: your time because I only give you one chance. And
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: he's like, you know, send it back to me. And
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: if I like it, you know you can rewrite the
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: whole you know, you can basically you know, get it
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: into fighting shape and then you know, I'll give you
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: a you know credit, and you know, blah blah all
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: this stuff, right, and so okay, So so sends me
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: a script and it's Camel Spiders, and you know, I
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: read it and thought about it and spent like like
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: basically like a week like trying to like fix or
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: like improve the first ten pages. And then I did,
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: and I sent it back to him, and then you know,
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: pretty pretty shortly after that, he uh, you know, calls back,
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: and I didn't have his number in my phone at
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: this you know, so I just saw it like it
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: was the same not I was like, oh, we know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: home boy, this is it. I was like, here's the call, right,
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: you know, this could like you know, make or break
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: my you know, you know, fledgling career or whatever there
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: is of it right now, you know. And I was
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: so used to like rejection and everything that it was
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: such a shock when when he's like he's like Brad Wilkie,
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: Jim Wnorski love it, loved it, you know, like you
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: just like you like it was really just like he's
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: very blunt, like if he doesn't like something, I've heard
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: a lot of times from him and be like nope, nope,
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: hate it, hate it, fix it, change it, and you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: you just learn, you know, it's just like you don't
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: take it personally. You just really it's like a kind
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: of a professional you know, it's just like okay, let's
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: you know, just here, what we're gonna do. So anyway,
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: you know, he liked it, and you know, so he
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: you know, so I ended up you know, rewrite and
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: then you know, from that, you know, so I went
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: down to set and you know, I have a little
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: cameo in the film, and you know, got to you know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: kind of experience that that world of on the fly filmmaking.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: But even better, like even like I think more importantly,
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: it really taught me how to write to budget without
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: like losing any creativity. And you know, a lot of times, yeah,
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: people would love to have Like I just told this
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: story to somebody earlier today who you know, because I
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: don't usually bring this stuff up in conversation, you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: in conversation, but sometimes you know, people will know about
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: it and say like, well, how did you you know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: like you know, what's tell me about that? And so anyway,
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: I was just telling this very exact story earlier about
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: how there was a scene where it was like a
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: busload of tourists and attacked by the camel spiders and
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: you know, it was it wasn't essential to the story,
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: but it had a point, like there was a reason
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: it was there to move the story forward. And you know,
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: the first thing that Jim did. When you read that
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: that new scene was like, no, can't do it. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: got to get a bus. I got to get at
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: least twenty extras. I got to put him up for
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: a day. I got to feed all of them. I
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: got it. You know, He's like, do something else, like
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: take it out, figure out, you know. So it was
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: like it was kind of like this like boot camp
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: on you know, writing effective, low budget you know, genre pieces,
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: and you know from there, you know, then you know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: I pitched uh Parana Conda. So ended up doing like
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: three different treatments and they all got rejected, which was
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: really frustrating, and then came on to do some uncredited rewrites,
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: you know Jim wanted, you know. And I don't even
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: know if that was like cause my second child was
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: or my first child was being born at the time,
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: so like I was supposed to go out to set,
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: but you know, and I say this, like I don't
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: regret it at all, not going out to set, but
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: you know, so I don't know, like if you know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: so it was just like it was like such a
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: like I was kind of a bit of a letdown
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: in that sense, like I really wanted to like be
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: more involved in that project because you know, it was
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: my you know, and I you know, thankfully, because like
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: I feel like I've only ever had handshake deals with Jim.
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: You know, I did get you know, concept and you
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: know credit and you know all that, you know, like
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: the you know, like the credit for it, and.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: You know that that's great, but I wanted to do
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: more hands on writing. And then, you know, since then,
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: Jim and I have you know, co written probably at
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: least three other like full screenplays, none of which have
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: been produced, but all were like on the docket, were
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: going to happen, and then, for whatever reason, you know,
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: funding fell through on one something you know, something else
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: got you know, a slate got you know. It was
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: kind of like just the typical reasons movies never get made.
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: So but each time I learned something, you know, it
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: was it's yeah, it was a really great experience. And
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: you know, the movies are low budget creature features, but
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: I feel like from a writing perspective, you know, they
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: were invaluable experiences and I really you know, to this day,
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm sure like you know, Jim probably will
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: never even listen to the screen or this podcast. But
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: even if I send it to him, I say listen,
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: you know, I probably like won't get around to it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: So I'm saying this, like, you know, just as an
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: actual fact, Like you know, I feel like I've learned
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: so much from him and like his like you know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: just like taking a chance on like some random person
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: who emailed him was you know, unbelievable, and you know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: like I just feel like, you know, there's people that
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: I know that I'll email and like won't get back
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: to me. You know. I mean, like it's so so
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: it's you know, I think, you know, there's so much
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: luck involved in the film industry and so like so
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: I would never sit here and say like, oh, yeah,
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: it was because I was such a good writer, you know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: you know, anybody who succeed, you know, I feel like
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: it's easy for people to kind of like, you know,
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: after having like some sort of not even like success,
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: but like just something happens that's good or you know,
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: you move forward, that you can create this sort of
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: narrative saying like well it was because of this and
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: this and kind of piece together random things and say
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: that's why, but you know, in reality, it's just like
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: a bunch of random things that happened. And yes, I
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: was prepared and I was ready and all those kind
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: of things, but you know, it's you know, I think
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: you know, for any again, like anybody who's listening who's like,
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: you know, trying to like get a script made or
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: get like, it's it's probably not your fault that you know,
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: like that the screenplay is not you know, going into
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: production like it's you know, and that's I think that's
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: hard though to accept. And but I but I also
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: think like once you do accept it and you know
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: kind of understand, like have like sort of like a
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: semi like kind of like zen demeanor about it all,
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: I think it makes the whole process that much more
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: enjoyable and actually, you know, maybe even more fruitful.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: So you know, you're right about people not getting back
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: to you on emails. Like I have friends that I've
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: known for like ten years won't respond to an email,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: you know. And I'll email somebody, you know, I found
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: their website just ask my question or maybe you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: talk to me about coming on the podcast right away.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: They'll respond in a heartbeat and I'm and I'm always like, what,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: you know, what the hell is that?
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: You know what yeah, yeah, you know it's hard to
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: and I feel like, but what that did is you know,
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: like I feel like I've always been like relatively generous
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: with my time, but I feel like, you know, because
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: of well, like I just I just feel like I
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: always use that as an example of like I'm never
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: like too important or too good or too busy or
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: too whatever to like respond back, like I'm like even
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: if I can't help the person or like, it's not
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: a thing like you know, like that I'm in a
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: position to you know, like it is like a random
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: like somebody just you know, like I always try to,
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: like and if not like always do it, like always
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: at least try to like give some sort of response,
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: no matter how short it might be, because that's like not
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: the norm. And you know, it's just it's just frustrating
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: to me to think, like of how many like people
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: just stop like because that's the other thing I mean
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: is I'm sure you know, you know and anybody you know,
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: like people like who like are interested in this world.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: That it's just like it takes so much persistence and
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: so much like just like you know, it's not even
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: about like not taking no for an answer or not,
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: like it's like it's like just like not just being
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: completely like like debilitatingly like defeated by rejection and just
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: like indifference that's the problem. Like I would rather deal
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: with rejection honestly than indifference or you know, somebody just
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: being like oh, I don't know, you know, like just
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: like whatever, Like I'm not going to respond to that.
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: Like I'd rather if somebody say, like, no, this is
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: a terrible screenplay, You're stupid, then just like not just
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: kind of be like, hey, what's going And I feel
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: like that happens more often it is like nobody wants
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: to like say no, or nobody wants to like take
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: a position because then you know they have to they're accountable,
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: and you know that's tough. Like I see that a
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: lot in programming film programming for myself, Like you know,
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: I have to like tell filmmakers that I have a
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: relationship with every year. You know, there there's a handful
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: where it's where I you know, it's I have to
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: make a phone call. That's not a positive phone call.
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: It's saying we can't you know, I can and find
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: a spot for your film in the program this year.
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: But I feel like, out of respect for that person,
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: I respect for that relationship, you know, like you got
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: to kind of like own up to it and say, yeah,
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: like here, here's you know, here's the feedback I have.
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: Like here, you know, I wish it, you know, I
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: wish it could have been different. But you know, I
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: feel like a lot of times like people aren't willing
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: to sort of like take that responsibility, and I think
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: that creates sort of an environment where it's okay to
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: like just ignore stuff or kick stuff down the line
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: to somebody else take care of it. And you know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I'm not saying I'm a saint for
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: doing it, but it's just like that's that's how I
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: want to be treated, you know. So I feel like
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: the least I can do is try to like put
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: that out in sort of a pay it forward style.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, when House of a Thousand Corpses came out,
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Sid Hague, who was in the movie, actually said what
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: we wanted was either people to love it or hate it.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: So at the advanced screenings of it, he said, you know,
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: they gave out those feedback forms and he said anytime
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: they had somebody love it or hate it, they're like,
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: that's great what they hated to see. Though, with somebody
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: giving it like a five out of ten, it's just like,
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: you know, this movie wasn't good or bad. I didn't feel,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: you know, one way or the other. He said, I
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: want to get you out of that indifference and push
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: you to one one extreme or the other.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, totally, and I totally agree with that. It's like
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: you just want a reaction. I think so much about
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: film and art and you know anything, really most things
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: I guess is you know that you want somebody to
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: like just like be engaged or aware or marketing too.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: It's like you want to make an impression, you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: ideally like a positive impression. But you know, yeah, I
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: think you could kind of apply that across the board.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, very true. You know I've seen that too in
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: screenplays that you know, I've been asking have feedback on.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: I'm always you know, trying to you know, there was
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: a saying one time a screen writing teacher. Wentz told me,
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: I believe it was a maximum, maximum value, maximum entertainment,
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: and he said that maximum entertainment ends up taking you
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: to these extremes.
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: Then so be it.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: You know, like you've seen I mean, for instance, the
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Hatchet films. I don't know if you've seen the Hatchet films,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: but they're sort of like a splotter House type film.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of gore, a lot of bloodshed.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: Some people just don't get those, you know, movies, but
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: you know, guys like me, I'm like, hey, this is
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: this is freaking hilarious.
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh I love I mean, I love genre films,
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: like I feel like those like I mean, I would
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: much rather watch a bad genre film than a mediocre
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: you know, kind of narrative like drama, you know that
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: like might have more prestige or might have a name
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: actor or something like that. And believe me, like I
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: watch a lot of movies that don't get you know,
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: like a release, you know, like you know, because I
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: pre screened for Sundance, I programmed for Seattle, and then
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: also like you know, there's a couple of other film
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: festivals that like I'm like a friend of the you know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: like kind of like hey this might look or what
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: do you think you know, like get a question like
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: what do you think of this movie? Or what you know,
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: like that kind of thing. Plus you know, on Twitter,
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: like I get people that send me Vimeo links all
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: the time, which I highly encourage. Like I feel like,
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: you know, like to take advantage of all those sort
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: of like network effects that might exist and channels that
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: you might have access to. And I feel like Twitter
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: is like a really great way to like build community
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: and and get to know people and kind of like
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: just be part of you know, no matter what place
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: you're in, even around the world, you know, part of
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: like the conversation around you know, indie film and what's happening,
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: and you know, it's just yeah, I feel like there's
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: like you got to it's about like participating in the process. Yeah.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: I've always said that Twitter is with one of the
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: best or if not the best networking tools ever seen.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: I've met so many people because of Twitter and just
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: you know, keeping that social part of social media, because
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, if I want to talk to somebody,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: I'll follow them. I will make sure to send them
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: a tweet, you know, talk about you know, something off
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: their bio. I hate when people follow me and either
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: don't say anything or they immediately try to get me
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: to do something for them. Like, Hey, Dave, check out
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: my social media link, my craft funding link.
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: Can you retweet this?
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, I'm like, I don't even know who
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: you are, Like it's just ludicrous.
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it really is. And I think that's a great
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: point that you know, so many people especially you know,
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: and this is this is kind of like about you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: indie film marketing or crowdfunding or you know, anything that
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: involves like kind of like a transactional relationship. Is that
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: you know, people want to go from like zero to
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: sixty immediately. That like as soon as like somebody connects
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: with something or fans something or likes or whatever. You know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: the you know sort of like the metric is or
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: the you know, the standard is on whatever platform.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Right, we'll be right back after a word from our
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: sponsor and now back to the show.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Like they immediately are like, hey, do this thing, or
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: do that thing, or now that I've got your attention,
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: you know, sign up for these five newsletters that I
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: have or or and it's just overwhelming because you know
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: a lot of people are doing that, and you know,
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: everybody doesn't have to be a pundant, you know, and
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: everybody doesn't have to be you know, like I think
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: it's great to have opinions about stuff, but you know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: sometimes it's good to listen sometimes. Like I feel like
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: that's sort of like the key. Like if I just say, like,
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: if is there a key to like social media engagement,
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: I would say it's being a good listener. It's not
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: being a good tweeter. It's not being a good like
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: you know, meme maker or gift creator or like any
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: of that stuff. Yeah, that helps, right, But it's like
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: if you're not listening to like the tone and sort
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: of like the scale or like the you know, sort
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: of like where the conversation's going, you're gonna just like
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: come in. You're going to be that person at a
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: party that like, you know, like barges in. It's like, hey,
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: every you know, it's like you're wearing a toga and
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: it's a you know, it's a wake or something right,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: and nobody you know. Like I always like use like
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: sort of an analogy of like Twitter and social media
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: in general just kind of being like an extension of
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: a cocktail party. And you know, sometimes you talk to
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: one person, sometimes you talk to a group of people.
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: Sometimes you talk to everyone that's in your your room,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: but you know, it's you have to know appropriate like
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: times to like when to do those like when to
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: have the bullhorn out and when to just you know,
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: you know, or when to direct message like it's yeah,
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: and and I think it is, Like I absolutely agree
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: with you about Twitter being such a great tool, especially
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: for people in you know, kind of like freelance or
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: creative kind of roles or content creators or whatever that
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: you know, kind of those kind of groups look like
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: or you know, I think Twitter is so much better
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: than LinkedIn or even Facebook, that it's such a professional.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: Like the way I kind of set it up is like,
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: you know, Facebook is kind of like my broad you know,
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: like sometimes I'll share family stuff, sometimes I'll share you know,
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: but like actually even don't spend that much time like
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: other than for clients, like for my personal Facebook, whereas
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: I spend a lot of time on Twitter, like reading
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: news and fallowing, you know, like interacting with people and
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: sharing stuff about other people's projects or local like Pacific
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: Northwest filmmaker stuff. You know. LinkedIn again like kind of
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: same with Facebook, but it's like even less personal. It's
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: more business y. And Instagram it's just like pictures of
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: my kids, you know, and I think like each of
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: those channels have different content styles and they have different
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: tones and you know, so like all of those things
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: like that, it's hard to teach, Like you can't really
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: necessarily learn what works and what doesn't work from like
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: an article that's like top five ways to become a
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: you know, top engager on Twitter or something like. You
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: just have to like be part of the conversation and
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: be part of the community. And if you're not willing
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: to take the time to do that, then you can't expect,
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: you know, the community to embrace you when you have
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: an ask for them or a need or you know,
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: because then it will seem like you're just you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: just coming in and you know, just with your handout,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: and you know that's never good. That's you know, interpersonally
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: or you know. I mean, yeah, I could go on
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: and on about like you know, sort of like the
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: like my thinking on sort of like what underlies good
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: social media engagement and like community and communication. But you know,
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: it's really not that difficult. It's like, would you you know,
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: what you would do in real life, like in the
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: real world, you know, it's not that much different.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: I was reading a very good book by Gary Vannerchuk.
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know a jab jab jab bread hook, which
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: is you know, give, give, give, ask. And one of
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: the things that Gary was always talking about was, you know,
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: social listening and stop always using it as like a bullhorn,
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: but actually ask you know, hey, you know what's your
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: biggest problem in business?
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: Hey? What?
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: You know what what could be better in this? And
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: then you know, once he would you know, give solutions
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: or give this, then he would ask something of them,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: so it would be about an eighty twenty ratio of
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: you know, asking to giving. I'm sorry, giving to asking,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: so you know, give out giving eight percent of time, asking,
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: you know, twenty percent of the time. And he you know,
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: that's what he's been using. And you know, I mean
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: it's just when I see things like that, you know
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: immediately like people just you know, Joran meet and Jordian like,
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: hey click this link or hey, you know follow me
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: or this or that. I just tuned it out on
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: One thing I just got into recently was Instagram. I
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: have gotten so big in Instagram and I never really
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: thought about it that much, and I finally figured out
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: how to use it the way I want to use it,
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: and now now it's almost become like it's pushing out
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: Twitter as my favorite social media platform. So now I'm
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: just like I'm on Twitter and Instagram right now.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, and I think like Instagram is just going
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: to keep growing, and I think you're going to see
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: a lot of you know, uh activity on Snapchat and
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: things are just gonna get more and more visual and
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: you know and shorter and emojis and like all the
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: like you know, it's and it's like you can either say, like,
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm thirty, I gotta be forty years old January.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: And you know, I'm not a digital native. I'm not
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: a millennial. But I'm also you know, like a lifelong learner,
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: I guess I would describe myself. And so I feel
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: like there's a lot of people who are kind of like, ah,
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: you know, social media that's you know, for kids, or
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: that's for this or that, or it's you know, not relevant,
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: or I don't need to be on social media, and yeah,
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: maybe somebody doesn't who's like like Wes Anderson, like it's
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: not gonna, you know, the film director is not going
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: to help him necessarily to be on social media or
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: Sophia Coppola. You know, like somebody like already established kind
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: of in you know, like in that last kind of
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: like golden period of you know, the three picture deal
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: and you know kind of like you know, having your
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: your way paid by studios and mini majors, whereas like now,
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: you know, I feel like if you're again like a
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: creative like freelancer or filmmaker, content creator whatever again like
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: any of those kind of groups, you know, I think
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: it's essential to at least have a presence there and
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: be part of the community. And you know, I think
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: your instincts are right on the money as far as
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: like you know, like Instagram and you know, like Snapchat,
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: and you know, I have to learn, like I every day,
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: Like I ask our intern. Not every day, not every day,
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: you know, I don't want because because it's a big ask,
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: but like at least once a week, I can say
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: that honestly, Like I ask our intern who's twenty four
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: years old, to tell me like something new about Snapchat,
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: Like what do I not know about Snapchat? Or what
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: do I need to like what's a new thing on
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: Instagram that I need to be aware of? Or you know,
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: because I don't know all of that, and it's hard
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: to like keep track of all that stuff. You know,
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: you're not going to get it, you know, just by
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: getting a couple of news letters from you know, social
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: media business you know, like or whatever. Right, It's like
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: I feel like it comes like, you know, it's like
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: face to face kind of like tell me what I
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: don't know. And I feel like that, you know, applies
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: to anything. You know. I think it's just the right
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: way to to learn and stay in the mix. Yeah,
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: very true.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: You know, because when I see social media strategies for
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: for filmmakers, you know, usually what they try to do
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: is they just say listen, you know, we'll you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: they'll do it themselves. They'll crowd you know, when they're crowdfunding,
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: they try to do that themselves. And you're like, yeah,
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: you know, I'll answer as it comes in. And you know,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: one of the things that I've always said is, you know,
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: you need to have a better plan than that.
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: It's sort of like, oh yeah, it's sort of.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: Like if you know, hey, if something bit happens, you
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: know in production, uh, you know, we'll we'll figure out
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: a way. Who forget planning, forget all that that pre
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: planning stuff who needs it?
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and that's just a recipe for disaster.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, you know, and that's very true. And you know,
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: you know, as we're talking about you know, social strategies,
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: you know, you've worked with a lot of you know,
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: really great companies if you work with HBO, and you've
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: also worked with one of my favorites, which which is
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Draft House Films. Oh yeah, and you know, so you know,
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: how did you end up you know, meeting with some
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: of these companies and getting to work with them.
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: So you know, in in HBO's case, it was just
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: a referral word of mouth. Like we haven't really you know,
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: Smart House Creative hasn't really done any advertising yet other
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: than like some promoted posts on Facebook and some you know,
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: like some Facebook ads, but not more than I think
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: like two hundred and fifty dollars total over you know, recently.
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: And we're that's changing in January, like we're sponsoring a
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: party at Sundance and like I mean like January and
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: like twenty sixteen forward is more like you know, we're
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: gonna take a more like as far as like marketing
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: goes for us, we had been more focusing on content marketing.
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: We still will be, but you know, we're going to
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: do a little bit more traditional kind of marketing as well.
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: So you know, but up until then, it was just
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: uh word of mouth. So you know, just the HBO
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: was doing a big premiere for one of their their shows,
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: Looking here in Seattle, and one of our clients is
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: Three Dollars Bill Cinema, which is the LGBTQ film nonprofit
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: film organization that they they produced the Seattle Lesbian and
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: Gay Film Festival. So we've been working them with them
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: for two years and uh, you know, we're like their
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: agency of record now and so it was like, hey,
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: we're going to do this. We're going to do something
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: with three dollars Bill. Like how do we pull this off?
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: And it was just like, okay, you guys got to
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: work with Smart House. And so we did like a
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: kind of a live tweet tour with one of the
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: stars from Looking all over Capitol Hill, going to like
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: gay friendly businesses and.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: Just you know, just like just being in the community.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: It was a lot of fun and that was a
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: you know, a great, great experience and then with Draft
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: House that relationship developed because uh we had been I
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: had been doing uh the social media and and kind
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: of like broad general you know, kind of digital strategy
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: for Amira and Sam which I mentioned earlier, uh director
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: Sean Mullen West Point Grad. So uh, you know that
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: was just like a really nice fit. It was like,
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna help these guys out on their film. It's
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: and then that was before they even got distribution from
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: Draft Hoss. Like that was still like as they were
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: kind of like on the festival circuit, and then when
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: that happened, it became like a you know, now it's
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: like let's rally the you know circle awagas how are
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: we gonna So it was really great working with Draft Out,
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: who had a you know, many more resources and a
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: lot of people in the mix. And you know, there
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: was a you know, some like controversy about some of
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: the costumes in the film, like with the h job
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: and how it was worn with a mirror's character and
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: you know, so there was like some like you know,
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: sort of like pr style crisis control and like it
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: was it was really interesting. There was a lot, like
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: I learned a lot from that whole you know, because
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: they were you know, doing some tug screenings and doing
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: some h you know. One of the actors in the
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: film in a supporting role is Paul Wesley who's in
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: The Vampire Diaries. And you know, I wasn't aware really
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: of how big of a star he was on you know,
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: in general, but especially on social media. But his Twitter
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: following is like it's you know, probably close to four
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: million people by now. I think it was like three
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: point six million or something at the time. So anytime
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: we would tweet something that he would either retweet, you know,
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: like that he interacted with somehow, it would just like
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: just drive engagement through the roof and people like if
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: you were to retweet a tweet about like signing up
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: for AMRA and Sam's news letter, people would be retweeting
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: and favoring that tweet, like you know, I would say,
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: like at least probably a month after it was originally
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: sent out. So you know, it's just it's just crazy.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: And that really, to me like demonstrates, you know, kind
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: of the power of social media and you know, kind
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: of thinking about, you you know, how that integrates into
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: your casting strategy because I think in the past, you know,
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: It used to be about, you know, sort of the
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: what is the international sales or the bankability of a
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: star overseas, So it's like can this star make money
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: for us? And when we you know, pre sales overseas
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: or something. And I think that's still you know, part
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: of the equation. But I think now if you had
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: two actors and they were both you know, to to
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: like lead female role, right, and they're they're both great,
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: and you know, everything else is equal, but one of
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: them has two million Twitter followers and one has like
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: isn't on Twitter as like one hundred or you know,
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: just doesn't focus on social media. And I said, like
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: everything else is equal, like there's not like a difference
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: in talent or anything. I absolutely would hire the one
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: with two million Twitter followers because that is going to
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: come and you know, into play when the film is
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: on the festival circuit, when it's in release, and it's
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: going to make a difference. So you know, I think
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: all that stuff is now you know, we're starting to
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: see that built into some of the strategies. But that's
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: kind of like how that you know, that whole part
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: of that you know, came together.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was talking about crowdfunding before with
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: some podcast guests, and one of the you know crowdfunding
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: you know specialists actually said that's one of the things
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: he always looks at was, you know, he talks to
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: the directors, talks to the producers and says, you know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: whoever you have cast it in this film, I would
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: like to see their social media platform as well, because
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: you know, there's some people who say, no, I'm not
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: on social media at all, and then there's others who,
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: you know, some actors and actresses who take it upon
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: themselves and like, look, we got to promote ourselves. So
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: they have the Instagram, they have the Twitter, they have
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: the Facebook, and they have a pretty good, you know,
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: a pretty good following, and you're just just to go
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: back to Gary Vanderchuk, you know, one thing again. He
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: one thing he also said was with versus depth, and
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: he said, you know, likes and comments and you know,
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: retweets are all with and he said, the depth is
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: where you come in where you have like that engagement
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: and then you have that conversion rate of them signing
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: up for newsletters and everything else. And one thing I
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: took away from it is he said, go one inch
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: wide and a mile deep.
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: I like that. Yeah, I've heard similar. Yeah, I mean
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: I couldn't agree more with that, you know, sort of
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: general philosophy about you know, like really finding I mean
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: it speaks. I don't know if it was Fannerchuk who
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: who said this or or who this was maybe with
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: Seth Godin or somebody like that, but like the idea
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: of true fans, like finding those true fans that are
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: out there, your ambassadors, like you're like with the movie
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: that's Smart House just acquired called Chatty Caddies, Like I
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: feel like there are people out there that love love,
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: love this movie and they're gonna be great ambassadors for
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: the film. And there are people that love love, love
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: love cats obviously, and when those two kind of ven
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: diagrams overlap, I feel like there's the potential at least
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: for you know, that sort of like al come you know,
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: alchemy that happens sometimes with social media where it becomes
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: like people start sharing stuff and talking about stuff, and
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: I think it's going to be you know, potentially divisive film.
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: Like you know, it won the Jury Prize at SIF
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: and sold out its screenings and but some people were
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: still like, oh that movie, Like I talking cats like
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: I just don't you know, so people didn't like it
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: at all, whereas other people thought it was the best
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: thing they ever And that to me is like a
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: really good sign. And that speaks to what we just
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: talked about earlier in the podcast, you know, when you
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: said about like forget uh sid Hey, you know, you
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: either want people to love something or hate something. You
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: don't want them to be indifferent or ambivalent, and I
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: think that is really key, especially when it comes to distribution.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: So, you know, Brad, one of the other questions you know,
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: I had for you was, you know, how do filmmakers,
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: you know, approach smarthouse creative? You know, do you sort
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: of find them or do they find you? Or is
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: it like a mixture of both.
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: Well, I think because we're so new in the space
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: that it's more us finding them, because like I said,
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: I see a lot of movies sort of in the
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: you know, the film equivalent of galleys for publishing, and
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: you know these are picture lock or rough cuts, and
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: you know, you get a good like it's a you know,
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: you can evaluate. You know, I feel like feel pretty
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: good like it with my gut instinct about being able
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: like once a film has its picture locked, you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: I don't care if it's missing, you know, doesn't have
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: color correction, doesn't have finished sound, it's got a tempt score,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: all these other things like you know, that doesn't matter
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: because the story is there, and if the story is
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: not going to change, you know, I feel pretty confident
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: saying I can evaluate you know, the film on its merits,
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: those most important merits the story. So you know, up
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: until now, you know, it's been like there's just like
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: a you know, sort of like a wealth of films.
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: But I think like once Chatty Caddies gets out, and
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: I think once you know that that other film that
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: we produced in house called Thirteen Chambers, which is a
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: genre kind of supernatural anthology directed by thirteen different female
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: filmmakers from the Seattle area, which I'm super excited about.
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: I've seen some early rough cuts of those films and
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: they're just blowing my mind, Like I so so excited
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: to see that, like a see the rest of them.
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: But it's it's kind of a great. Yeah, it's great.
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: It's like Christmas Christmas morning. Every time like a new
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: filmmaker brings in the computer with the rough cut ands
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: like all right here. Here's what I got so far,
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: and it's like, oh my gosh, show me more. I
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: can't wait to see the rest, you know, so like
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: we'll be releasing that one ourselves as well. And you
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: know it's it's like once you I think understand sort
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: of like the infrastructure, have you know, some some trusted
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: guides in place to help navigate that landscape, because you know,
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: it's sort of like the wild West right now with
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: film distribution. So you know, what what I would like
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: is for Smart House to you know, sort of develop
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: into you know, what might be considered like the filmmakers distributor.
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: And you know, I kind of see you know, like
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: the deal that we worked out with Chatty Caddies. You know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: we we have an ownership stake in the film Smart
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: House does, so you know, there's no agency problem. It's
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: not like we're just like you know, licensing it and
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: we're gonna you know, distribute it and as soon as
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: it you know, like it becomes part of our cattle.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: Like it's like we're in it for the long haul
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: and we're working very closely with the filmmakers. And you
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: know the quote that Pablo Valencia, who's the co writer
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: and director of the film you know gave for the
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: Indie Wire article. Like you know, when I when he
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: first sent that to me, I was like blushing because
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: I was like, oh my gosh, like I you know,
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: it was it was like really like that's but that's
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: exactly like what I wanted, you know, to convey to
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: film is like this is a home for filmmakers because
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: as a filmmaker myself, you know, or producer like in
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: that kind of space, I know how difficult it is
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: that I know how unfair a lot of you know,
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: the the deals are that are offered to a lot
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: of filmmakers, which is what drives them honestly, like and
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: and truthfully into a di y release or into like
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: a kind of like a hastily cobbled together.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show, you.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: Know, sort of like let's just get this out there.
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: And you know, it's like they're kind of left hanging,
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: and so you know, I think eventually, like you know,
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: I'm like, you know, as far as like how to
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: you know, I would love for filmmakers to send us there.
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: You know, there they are films that you know, the
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: picture lock stage and you know, we can evaluate it,
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: but I think we're going to be very very you know,
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: we're still sort of like chatty caddies. I think is
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: a really interesting, you know, sort of a model template
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: for what a smart house film looks like. And Ryan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: my business partner, and I, you know, talk at length
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: about what does a smart house film look like? And
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: it's one of those things where it's like, well, well,
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: no when we see it, but also you know, it's
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: it's not something that you could It's not like a
• 50:59
  Speaker 5: carbon copy or an imitation of what's playing at the multiplex,
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: because then you know, people like there's not like a
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: moral imperative necessarily to go see an independent film. It's
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: not like that's like a marketing hook for anyone, you know. Unfortunately,
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: you know, for you know, I don't mean to burst
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: in anyone's bubbles, but I'm just saying, like, you know,
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: my parents in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, like don't give a care
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: if it's an independent film or not. They don't care
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: how it was made. They just care if it's a
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: good movie that they want to see. So, you know,
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: by trying to find movies that you know, are comparable
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: to you know, it's an indie. You know, it's an
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: indie taken three or you know, it's an indie you
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: know insert you know aloha or something right like that
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: doesn't I mean, that doesn't do any good. And I
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: feel like it just kind of sets you up for failure.
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: So it's like that's why, like a movie like Chatty
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: Caddy's which is so like just you know, aclectic and
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: risky in my in my opinion, but you know, like
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: I said, it still managed to sell out tos and
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: win the jury prize at a major film festival that
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: was its world premiere. You know, I feel like, you know,
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: that's like a really that's like a risk worth taking
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: in my book, And I feel like that's the whole
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: reason to get into film distribution or filmmaking is to
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: take those kind of risks, because you know, you don't
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: want to just like throw your you know, like kind
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: of just be like another voice among like a you know,
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: chattering crowd of thousands of people doing the same thing.
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: It's like, you know, ideally like you want to stand
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: out in a positive way and you know kind of
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: be like a beacon in a sense of for like
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: what's possible even if it's not per you know, like
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: you know, there's never going to be that perfect film
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: or there's never going to be you know that sort
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: of like perfect strategy or whatever. But you know, again,
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: it's all about learning and it's about like, you know,
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: continual incremental improvement is kind of how I like to
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: look at it.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: So that's and you're right about the online distribution because
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: you know, a lot of filmmakers. On the previous episode
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: that I had on, two filmmakers from Canada and they
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: released their film through VHX. They actually spent you know years,
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: they actually finished the film in twenty twelve, and they
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: then spent years going to these distributors and asking, hey,
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: you know, what do you have for us? And their
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: answer was, well, oh, it's a comedy, Okay, who's in it?
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: We don't know any of these people forget it and
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: he and you know, one of the guys, I think,
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: Bob Wooseley, he actually said, you know, one of the
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: things he learned was if you're going to do a comedy,
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: an indie comedy, you have to have some kind of name,
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: whether it's like a Patent Oswald or you know, a
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: Bill Murray, you know, but if you do horror, horror
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: is a lot easier to sell.
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well that's you know, that's in no small part
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: why like if we were going to produce a film,
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: our first film, which we did, thirteen Chambers, aligns with
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: the horror genre. Like, you know, that wasn't an accident,
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: and I totally agree with that. And I feel like,
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: you know, you can't compromise artistic integrity, but at the
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: same time, you also want to be completely and fully
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: aware of the realities of the marketplace. And I think
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: that's like what often happens is you either have one
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: or the other. You've got a producer who just cares
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: about product and you know, so they create something that's
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: kind of a cookie cutter thing. Maybe it'll make money,
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: which is good, but it's not really adding anything to
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: the artistic conversation. And then on the other hand, you've got,
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: you know, a filmmaker that is just only cares about,
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: you know, his or her vision and doesn't necessarily take
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: into account that film exists in a commercial marketplace. You know,
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: it's it's not like an art museum or you know,
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: unless you're making like a twelve hour experimental you know
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: kind of perform you know, visual art thing, which is fine,
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: go ahead and do it if you can find somebody
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: to pay, you know, like I'm trying to remember the
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: Maybe it's Christian Barclay. I don't remember the exact name
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: of the person, but the artist who made that twenty
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: four hour film The Clock, you know, I think like
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: that that consists of just like you know, images of
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: time in film, like that's fat. I would love to
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: see that, and people pay huge amounts of money to
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: have it screened and to own a print of it,
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: and it's kind of a one of a kind thing.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: But you know, outside of those like examples or like
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: a Matthew Barney, you know, sort of like hybrid experimental
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: slash just weirdo experiment, those opportunities don't exist for most
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: independent if not all, independent filmmakers. So you've got to
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: find that balance point. You have to find that sweet spot.
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: And it's tough. You know, I'm not saying that I
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: or Smart House or you know, anybody that I know
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: has like the solution or the perfect solution or it's
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: like I feel like we're all learning, but I feel
• 55:59
  Speaker 5: like the more that we're able to share through you know,
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: through channels like social media or being on a podcast
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: like this, or you know, connecting at a film festival
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: or something like that, you know, kind of share what
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: we've learned in the experiences. Like I feel like that's
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: going to help, you know, the next project that somebody
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: makes or two projects down the road. You know, I
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: think you're going to see that sort of cumulative positive impact.
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: But that's what you know, that's what I hope for
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: at least. But you know, it's tough independent filmmaking like
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: anything right now. Is it's like just like a tough,
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: tough world. Like it's just you know, it just is
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: it just you got to be a real scrapper. You
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: got to be a real hustler, I guess, you know,
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: in a positive you know, like not like where you're
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: like scamming somebody, but where you're just like always like
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: trying to like make an improvement somewhere. Yeah.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: I concur I also, you know, Brett, I have a
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: feeling that the next coming years, I think everything's going
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: to come back on the upswing. I just have this feeling.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: I can just see the economy approving here and there,
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: you know, I think it's it's going to come back,
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: and I think the people are going to have a
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: lot more disposable income, and you know, hopefully some of
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: this stuff will will you know, be eased up, so
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: you know, but at least that's my hope.
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that'd be great.
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: So you know, Brad, I I know, you know, we've
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: been talking for almost an hour and I know you're busy.
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: I had one fan question come in that I really
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: wanted to make sure to ask you particularly.
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: This is actually from Bob Woosley, who I just was
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: mentioning about who was on the podcast, said before you
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: and he said sorry. His question is, with so many
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: platforms out there, where do you start when I'm planning
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: a social media strategy?
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, that is a great question, and so
• 57:54
  Speaker 5: so here's like that's so I want to like actually
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: like give a legitimate response to this that somebody could
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: actually you know, take action on in a practical kind
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: of way. So I think the first thing you have
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: to figure out is, like the first response is it
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: depends and it really does, and it depends on your project.
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: It depends on your audience. And I feel like you
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: have to really know your project very very well. So
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: if you're the filmmaker, the producer, it's like that should
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: you should, So that's good, You've got that information already.
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: And then based on like what you learn from your
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: crowdfunding campaign if you did one, or what you've learned
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: from you know, sort of like work in progress screenings
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: if you've done any of those, which I you know,
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: find to be like very helpful, you know, not like
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: we have to have like a formal audience feedback surveying
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: kind of thing, but it's more like you know, friends
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: and family or trusted advisors you know, or you know,
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: kind of confident kind of thing, and you know, it's
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: like you're figuring out like what your audience looks like
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: and and who they are, you know, or like what
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: who they might align with, you know, out in the
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: world right like maybe developing some personas and you know,
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: then I then I think it really comes down to
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: how much capacity you have to manage each of these channels,
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: because you know, each of the channels, Like the worst
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: thing you could do is, you know, set it up
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: so that whatever you post on Facebook also gets automatically tweeted,
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: which also you know, you know, you take a picture
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: and post it on Instagram, and then you also just
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: like say, like you know, hit all those buttons that
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: say like post a Facebook and post to Twitter and
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: post it to like It's like that's like the absolute
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: wrong way to do it, and that's a good indicator
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: that you're like stretch too thin and you want to
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: like really focus on you know, one or two channels.
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: And before I go into more about that, and I
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: want to make this like a huge like you know,
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: mini class or something like that, but you know, I
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: think you can get a lot of traction out of
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: a hashtag.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: So for instance, like I'll say, like I'll kind of
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: like give like a case study style example here with
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: our film thirteen Chambers. So in that case, like you know,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: it would be real easy to say, like, oh, we're
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: gonna you know, we're gonna make a Facebook page for
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: this movie, and then we're going to make a Twitter
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: account for this movie because people are going to want
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: to follow it. We're going to make an Instagram account
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: because you know, we have to have a presence on
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: all these different places. Right well, you know, if you
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: already have an established, you know, like the filmmaker has
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: an established presence, or the actors do, or you know,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: the company who produced it does, like if all those
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: things are already in place. And one of the things
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: that we talk about a lot at Smart House is
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: this kind of idea of filmmaker first, So you know,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: so like in Bob's case, it's more about positioning him
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: as a filmmaker who has multiple projects you know in
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: the pipeline. He's got this one that he's working on
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: right now, but you know there's two more coming down
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: the pike, and it's really you know, neck and neck
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: which one's going to get made. But you know it's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: filmmaker first because those projects have a limited shelf life,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: whereas you know, Bob's career is going to hopefully, you know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: be you know, much longer lasting than any one single project.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: So you know, based on that, you know, you know,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: I would say, like you know, for for thirteen Chambers,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: like we're doing most of our engagement via the hashtag.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: So anytime like I personally tweet anything, or smart House does,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: or one of the filmmakers or whatever, we just make
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: sure we include the hashtag and then you could go
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: onto apps or you know, platforms like tag board or
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 5: hash at it. There's there's like a whole bunch if
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: you search like hashtag like search engines, and what they'll
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: do is you can embed this then in your website
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: or you know, you know, because I think every film
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: should definitely have website, Like you need to have a website,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: so like you know, and you know, that's like sort
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: of like because eventually you're gonna want to embed your
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: vod you know, kind of Vimeo on Demand or VHX
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: or gum Road or if you do it through quiver,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: Like I mean, there's all these options, right, but you
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: want to have your like you want to have like
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: an anchor, and I think, you know, the film's website
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: should be the anchor. Now if that is the filmmaker,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: and like then it could be like you know, Bob
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: Woolsey dot com backslash film title right, Like it doesn't
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: like you don't have to create brand new things for
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: every single project that you do. You should try to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: like integrate them. And this is where the digital strategy
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: comes into play. Integrate them as well as well as
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: you can and as smartly as you can. So again
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: it's like so for thirteen Chambers, Right, We're gonna have
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: a website thirteen Chambers Movie, and then the film eventually
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: like after you know, we'll try to do a theatric
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 5: release to whatever extent that we are able to, you know,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: through independent film theaters and everything, and then once that
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: revenue stream has diminished to a certain point, then will
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: make it available through our website, through the filmmakers' websites,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: you know, everywhere you can inbed because I found actually
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: that like one of the key like the leading indicators
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: I think for like all the data that you can
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: get through Vimeo on demand is the number of times
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: that the embedded player, like the trailer gets loaded. Is
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: seems to be at least indicative of a higher Like
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: I'm not so you know, I'm not a statistician, but
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: I do understand statistics. So I'm not saying, you know
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: that this correlation means causation, right, Like it's you got
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: to take it all with a grain of salt. But
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: the more times that the embedded player gets loaded, you know,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: like the when when those are the highest, those numbers
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: are the highest. It's also you know, correlates to a
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: higher number of sales or rentals. So so I think
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: the more places you could have the trailer embedded through
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: the Vimeo you know sort of embedded, you know that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: the code that you can get that that's like a
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: really strong tactic when it comes to like your your
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: online kind of sales strategy. So but beyond that though,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: all the other social channels that we've already established, my
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: personal Twitter, smart House's Twitter, smart House's Facebook page, my
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: personal Facebook page, smart House's Instagram, my personal Instagram, smart
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: House Snapchat. That that's where we're going to be promoting
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: and pushing the film via the hashtag thirteen Chambers and
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: then kind of aggregating all of that content that's out
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: there to see you know, what kind of traction we
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: get and using tools like tweet Reach and topsy and
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: you know, there's a couple other free ones that are
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: out there that will allow you to kind of see
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: kind of like who's like, who's talking about the film
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: via this hashtag and who to follow up with and
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: what kind of insights you can glean from that. So,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: you know, as far as it comes to like picking
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: a you know, a platform, like what I what I
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: would say is like go with what you already have
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: established and excuse me, work the hashtag into it. And
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: if you don't have anything established, then I would say
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: start with your own personal channels first. So establish yourself
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: on Twitter first, establish yourself on Instagram first, and then
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: you know, work the film into that, because that's going
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: to be the sustainable way to do it. And I
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: think a lot of people want to jump in right
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: away and be like, well, we got to We've got
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: to create a Twitter handle for this film, and it's
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: got to be you know, thirteen Chambers movie, you know,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: for Twitter. But what that means then is that you
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 5: also have to like provide relevant content on that channel
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: for the audience, because if you encourage somebody to follow
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: your thirteen Chambers Twitter handle or Instagram account or whatever,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 5: then that audience is going to expect something beyond just
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 5: hey everyone, here's our trailer, here's our poster, here's our
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: you know, here's where we're playing next on the festival circuit.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: Hey guess what we're available for vod Because those are
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: all things that you can say on any channel, doesn't matter.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: You can do promoted posts and you know, ads on
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: any channel. It doesn't have to be a specific film channel.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: So you know, I think eventually it gets to a
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 5: point where you no longer have anything relevant to share
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: about that film that's not redundant and not like just
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: like purely promotional, and then people will like, you'll lose
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: that part of your audience. Right. Whereas if you set
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 5: it up that you are the hub and not the
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: film as the hub, but you as the filmmaker or
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: the hub, and you each of your projects are spokes
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: and those spokes look like hashtags and actual accounts, then
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: I think what you start doing is you start developing
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: a sustainable framework for you know, sort of this you know,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: sort of new UH you know, digital first and and
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 5: you know, sort of like new landscape that we're that
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: it's very fragmented, it's very fractured, and it's it's it's
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: ever changing, so you know, and this is all part
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: of like UH a presentation I gave at the Portland
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: Film Festival in UH September this past this couple of
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: months ago, and that we're also giving at the Wild
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: and Scenic Film Festival in January, and it's it's called
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: basically bridging the Indie Gap, and the idea is it's
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 5: a practical guide for UH you know, independent filmmakers and artists.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: You don't necessarily have to be a filmmaker. That could
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: apply for a musician or a you know, a visual
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: artist or whatever whatever that person's doing really practical steps
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: kind of like what I'm talking about here, So it's
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: not like a you know, it's not like a loss
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: leader or content marketing thing. You know, it's going to
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: be you know, it's going to end up eventually as
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: an ebook that you know, I'll sell you know through
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: you know, smart House will sell for like three ninety
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: nine or something and you know, three dollars in ninety
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: nine cents, by the way, and it's something that like
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 5: if you know, you're a filmmaker in Nebraska who has
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: no connections and you're just like, what do I do now?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: You know, maybe you can't afford to hire somebody like
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: smart House, but you could buy this ebook for three
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: ninety nine that will have like all these templates and
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 5: all these things that if you take the time to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: implement them, like, it'll at least put you in the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: ballpark for being successful with what you're trying to do,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 5: and you know, lay the groundwork for that that sort
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: of eventual success because there is no overnight sort of
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: like social media success for like ninety nine percent of
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: the people. So so never think of yourself as the outlier.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 5: You should always think of yourself as like the average case,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: and like that will I think, you know, help you
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: succeed and prepare you for the realities of what that
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: might look like, you know, much better than if you
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: think that you're going to be the person who finances
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: their independent film on their credit card and then sells
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: it at sundance to Harvey Weinstein.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: You know, just to sort of put a period at
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: the end of that too. You know, some people I
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: know have actually bought followers on social media. So what
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: they'll do is, you know, they'll set it up on
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: like a Sunday, and all of a sudden, you know,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: the next week they've got ten thousand followers.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: And at first I was like, how did you do this?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: And they said, oh, you know, we did a little
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: bit of this and that. And then finally, finally, you know,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: I asked them and they admitted, okay, we paid for
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: somebody on fiver to you know follow us with a
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: you know, a thousand or ten thousand bought accounts that
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: are just you know they're not real, there's nothing behind them.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: They're just they're a photo, a generated username, and the
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: photo was found by a program which just finds photos
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: plops it in there, and none of this is a
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: real engagement.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: So now you know, whatever they do, whatever they send out,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: nobody even sees it. It's just it's literally like putting
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: it up there for a bunch of automated bots to see.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, exactly. And I think that's a great example
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 5: of quality versus quantity. And I'm always amazed by like
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: when I see like, you know, accounts with like lots
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: and lots of followers. You know, like if you ever
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: look at this, isn't every account with a lot of followers,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: but you know, just like do like a little you know,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: anecdotal kind of survey. You know, you see somebody who's
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: got like ten thousand followers or this or that, like
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: and then you like you look at their tweets and
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: like there's no interaction or engagement at all on any
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: of their tweets, Like nobody's even liking something, much less responding,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: replying or retweeting or whatever, right, And you know, I
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 5: think it's foolish, like we alway tell our clients like
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: when you're looking at social media metrics and that's you know,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 5: something else that I think is really important is it's
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: not just about you know, good content or you know,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: community engagement in the sense of like community management, like
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: where you're like, hey, I'm just like a fun person
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 5: and I'm you know, I'm good on social media. Like
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: you really have to see like what are the metrics
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 5: and what are the goals that you're trying to achieve
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 5: through this engagement and through this content, and you know
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: what kind of tactics that you're trying. And you know,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 5: you never want to look at gross numbers without somehow
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 5: filtering them. And I feel like you always want to
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: look at rates and you always want to look at
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: per capita kind of interactions. And you'll find that like
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: organizations or brands or people that have huge followers almost
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 5: always have like really really poultry rates of engagement because
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 5: there just isn't you know, people follow like I don't
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: know why I would follow, Like I don't mean to
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 5: pick on Pepsi, but like why I would follow Pepsi?
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: Or Walmart or like why I would follow like a
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: major brand. I don't. I don't know what the incentive
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 5: is really, you know, even if there's like a chance
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: for quote unquote good deals or you know whatever. Right,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: It's like, so these brands have these huge like and
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 5: I guarantee you like I know as a fact, like
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: most huge brands on Facebook, and like they're constantly promoting
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: every single post, like paying to boost the posts and
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 5: paying for ads. Like like you know, organic engagement on
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: Facebook especially is really really low and it's hard to
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 5: come by, and you know, you got to have a
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: really focused audience to do it and to make it work.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: So yeah, so I think you know, anybody who looks
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: at kind of like you know, the I've got a
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 5: great you know, I guess like your example is perfect, like,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 5: but I feel like there's you know a number of
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: examples like that where you know, people get hung up
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: on the number, the volume, and they forget about sort
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: of the the whole reason, like the goal that they
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 5: should be aiming at, and that's to get people actually
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 5: care about whatever it is that they're working on or
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: doing and not saying like you know, it's like the
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: person who has one hundred followers, but fifty of them
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: are engaged, compared to a person who has ten thousand
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 5: followers and twenty five of them are engaged. You know,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 5: most people would say, oh, well, this person with ten
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 5: thousand followers, they're obviously doing something right. I have to like,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: you know, listen to their wise counsel or listen to
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 5: you know, give them my money or do whatever. Right,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: I have to follow them right. Whereas the person with
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: one hundred followers with fifty engaged, you know, that's the
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: one that's going to slip through the cracks. But that's
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: where the real engagement is happening, and that's you know,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: maybe one of those followers is a you know, maybe
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: ten of those followers are studio executatives, and you know,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: whatever that person tweets becomes, you know, ends up in
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: the Hollywood Reporter next week, or you know. Like so
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 5: there's all sorts of different influence, you know, levels and
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 5: types of influence on online. So yeah, I think what
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: you described as a great example of, like, you know,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: be cautious and be skeptical about you know, social media.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: And I remember when I when I a couple of
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: years ago, when I was getting into crowdfunding. A person
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: I was talking to actually said, you know, there was
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: a case called the Soldier Boy case, which was Soldier
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: Boy is a rapper and he had like three four
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: million followers so on Twitter and when his you know,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: new CD was coming out, They're like, well, this thing's
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: going to obviously be number one because you know, he's
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: tweeting about it constantly. It came out the album and
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: it didn't do anywhere near what they thought. And they said,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: wait a minute, how does this guy with four million followers,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: how does he not have you know, the number one album?
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: And they thought was a piracy? Well not really, they looked,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: you know, they they didn't think it was that they did.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: They ended up deciding that it was they're more interested
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: in hearing about like his thoughts about rat beefs and
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: other lyrics and this and that than they are about
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: his new album.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, right, And so all of that.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: Was you know, sort of for naught. Uh And you know,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: and there are you know, people that are obsessed with
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: his vanity analytics. There's vanity metrics.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, I've got you know, twenty thousand Twitter followers. You know,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: I actually did a crowdfunding webinar. I used to do
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: it more regularly, but we haven't done it in a while.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: We actually did a crowdfunding webinar.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: It was furry.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: It was on a Google hangout and somebody actually said, hey,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: you know, we have the star that we've signed. She's
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: an actress and you know, she's got a huge social
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: media social media following. But she but but we don't
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: get a lot of conversions. And we and we looked
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: at her photos and basically it's a lot of you know,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: modeling Laingerie's type stuff that you know, guys follow her
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: to see that so they can hit like or to
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: you know, retweet or tell her how hot she is.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: They're not there to sort of you know, invest in
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: any of her projects or buy any of her other stuff.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: They just want to you know, be there clicking on
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: that stuff.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, yep. Yeah. And I think that's you know,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 5: sort of again like sort of that like you know,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: the the fallacy of you know, social media, like the
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: silver bullet of social media. It's it's not going to
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: solve all your problems. Like I think you got to
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: use it effectively, and I think there are great ways
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: to use it effectively and I think, I actually think
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 5: Facebook ads are like a really effective way, especially if
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: you know, like you are able to target them and
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: you can get your you know your uh you know,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: like your click rates, like as far as like how
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 5: much you're paying for clicks you know down like and
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 5: always like driving you know people like so it's not
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: like you're paying for impressions, but you're actually like driving
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 5: to an actual goal and putting a pixel on the sites,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: you know, when you're converting like all these things which
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 5: like are like actually like take like some thought process
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 5: and you know that's where the real value can be
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 5: had and the real value can be added. But so
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 5: many people aren't willing really to take or even to
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: like think about the need for that or like why
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: you have to connect all those dots for like a
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: proper social media strategy or an overall digital strategy, like
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 5: how all those pieces fit together. So it's not rocket science,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 5: but I feel like it definitely requires somebody on your team.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be a paid consultant, but it
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: had like somebody should like really think about it. Usually
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 5: producer in most cases, but you know that doesn't usually happen,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 5: so then it you know when a film gets its
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 5: first festival acceptance, or you know, they're going to try
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 5: a DIY release, or they've got a distributor that's like
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 5: going to quote unquote distribute them, but they're not going
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 5: to put any money or effort toward you know, marketing
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 5: or promoting that. And it's you know, it's really up
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 5: to the filmmakers, So you know, what are you going
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: to do? Then? Like you like, these are all questions
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: that will eventually come to like you know, bear like,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 5: they will eventually like have an impact on you, So
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: you might as well think about them and figure them
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 5: out in the beginning and then realize, well, we don't
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 5: need this, we need this, We got to put more
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 5: money in toward this. We don't have enough for this.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: Put it in your budget instead of like being at
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: the end when you toss the finish line because you've
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 5: completed your film, when you realize that it's just like
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 5: the first lap that you're like all of a sudden, like, oh,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: we have three more laps that we have to run
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: with this film, and we have no money left and
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: everybody had burned out and we've called in all our favors.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: Then who's going to see your movie. And that's just
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: the reality because there's so much content being produced and
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 5: the means of production are so like the bar is
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 5: solow for people to get something made, and you know,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 5: it's just a lot of bad stuff out there. And
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: you know, if you've got a good movie, people should
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 5: be able to see it. And that's you know, it's
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 5: not you know, on an audience because you can't expect
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 5: them to search everything out. Like if you just put
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: your movie on VHX or on vimeo on man and
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 5: be like all right there, it is like I've leveled
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 5: the playing field. Well that's like the first step. Like
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: you've got to show people, like you've got to lead
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: people to that content, and you've got to encourage them.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: You've got to convert them, and you've got to turn
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 5: them into fans, and you've got to you know, bring
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: them along for your next project and you know, show
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 5: them some value and give you know, provide you know,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 5: a you know, community value and you know all that stuff.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 5: So it's you know, if you think about it too much,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: it can seem overwhelming. But you know that's kind of
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 5: like what these conversations are about is to you know,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 5: hopefully try to like break it down. So somebody's like, Okay,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 5: if I approach it from you know, this logical, step
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 5: by step kind of thing, it's like, it's not as
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 5: overwhelming or as crazy as it sounds.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: It actually can be done by somebody who's just getting
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 5: you know. But maybe that's not the filmmaker, but maybe
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 5: it's you know, as a student intern, or maybe it's
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 5: your you know, uncles, you know, your cousin or whatever.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: It's like, who's you know, twenty three years old and
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: knows everything about Snapchat and that's where you're going to
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: find your biggest audience. So anyway, you know, we could
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 5: probably go on and on.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 4: You know, we could go on and on, because you know,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 4: I was just going to say, you know, one of
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: the things that I realized from crowdfunding my last film
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: was I would definitely and for the next time I
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 4: plan a crowdfund, I have a team in mind. And
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: one of the things is, you know, obviously I'll sort
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: of be like, you know, the dictator, but but you know,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: you've got to have, you know, a person who's in
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 4: charge of the crowdfunding campaign. You also have to have
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: a person who's in charge of the social media and
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: then from that person, I would put like one person's
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: in charge of Twitter, I have a person charge of Facebook,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: have a person in charge of Instagram. And if you can't,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: let's just say you can't build that dream team. You
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: can't pay everybody. You know, that's excellent advice. You had
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: just find somebody you know who maybe will work for free,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: or who's a relative, a friend, you know, somebody had
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 4: bumped it on the street and maybe they can help
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: you out in some way you may and maybe you
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: can offer them something on you know, however, you want
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: to compensate them, you know, I mean, you know it's
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: it's it takes a village to raise a child, right Brad, Oh.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's for sure. Yep, Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 5: All all that stuff you just said, and it's like, yeah,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 5: it's never going to be your perfect team. It's never
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: you know, your you know, your plan's never going to
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 5: be perfect. And once you implement it and you start
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 5: executing it, half of it's going to go out the
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: window because something changes, or somebody gets sick or what
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: you know, just kind of just be like prepared and
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 5: just move on and you know, just make it work somehow,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 5: and if it doesn't work, then you know, set that
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 5: project aside and focus on the next one. Like like
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: I have a very like sort of like, you know,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: just I'm not too precious about any one project or
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 5: anyone sort of thing, because I know that so many
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: things influence the success or failure of those projects that
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: you know, you just have to focus on the things
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: that you can control, hope for some good luck on
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: the things that you can't, and then just really, you know,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 5: without sounding too pollyannish about it, but like just try
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: to stay positive about it through the whole through the
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 5: whole process, and you know, and you'll find like even
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 5: if the project doesn't succeed or like something gets goes
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 5: wrong midway or whatever, like, you may find that some
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 5: of your collaborators that you brought on board end up
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: being you know, key team members in the next project
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: or you help. You know, it's like you just never know.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 5: And I think that's kind of like one of the
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 5: really cool things about a lot of this randomness that
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 5: we kind of discussed is that you just never know.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 5: So you should always be open to those possibilities.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: Some of those struggles could maybe lead to a better
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 4: opportunity or lead to a better discovery. There was a
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: book I was actually just reading. I have to finish
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: reading it called The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holliday,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: and that was very interesting. Yeah, and that's what it's
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: all about. The the New England Patriots actually distributed that
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: to all their players this year and to teach them
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: all about you know, adversity and everything else. And you
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: know that they do pretty well in football.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah right, you know, Brad.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: Sometimes you know, I hopefully we can sit down again.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 4: I can have you back on the show if it
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 4: be able to come back.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 5: Oh for sure. I'm actually I feel like I'm losing
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 5: my voice right now, so like to find me. I'd
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 5: love to come back. That'd be great.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: Oh excellent. So Brad, where do you find your online.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 5: So you can find you know, smart house is at
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: smart Housecreative dot com all one word because it's you know,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: spelled normally. I'm on Twitter at JB W I l
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 5: K e H. Smart Houses on Twitter and Instagram at
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 5: teams smart house, and I'm also on Instagram at JB
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 5: Will keep that's another you know, just one more little
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 5: piece of advice is if you can can can standardize
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 5: all of your handles so that like people don't have
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 5: to like remember three different handles across your Twitter, Instagram,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 5: you know, whatever else you might have, like try to
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 5: like if you can make them the same thing, so
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 5: it's not like it takes a lot of the guest
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 5: work out of the whole process of somebody is trying
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 5: to tag you at a conference or at a Q
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 5: and A or whatever. So you know, and then you know,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: smart House is on Facebook and you know you can
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 5: you can find us. We have a blog to where
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 5: we do a lot of you know, guest posts from
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 5: people like filmmakers talk about their experiences and you know,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: so anyway, that's you know, we're out there. Like I'm
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 5: usually not like I'm a good promoter, but sometimes like
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: I'm just like, you know, if you're interested, like you'll
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 5: be able to find us just team smart House, smart
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 5: House Creative JB. Wilkie. But yeah, I encourage like and
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 5: it would actually welcome anybody to tweet questions at me
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 5: on you know, on Twitter or to you know email. Brad,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean that's you know another great way,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: Brad b r a d at smart House Creative dot
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 5: com is my email address. So you know, if anybody
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 5: who's listening, as you know, questions that I might be
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 5: able to answer, like in an email or by you know,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: sharing a link to something, you know, please get in touch.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 5: You know, like I feel like I'm always like trying
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: to you know, broaden that community, and you know, and
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 5: and do you know, help out if I can, and
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: you know those like really minor kind of ways, but
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 5: you know, so yeah, tweet me your questions, email your questions,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 5: and you know, I'll really do my best to get
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: you some some actual, like practical answers.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: So, Brad, I want to say thank you very much
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: for coming on. This has been a fantastic episode for
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: all those people who were you know, confused about social
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: media and all that other you know, the digital the
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 4: digital media. I hopefully you know, they listen to this,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: and I hope they gained a lot, you know, from this,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: you know, or listen to it again everybody, if you're
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: still you know, if you're still not quite sure, because
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: Brad set a lot of key points in this interview
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: that I can't I can't stress enough of how to
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: build that digital market.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, glad glad to and I'm you know,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 5: I really, like I said, like trying to be as
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 5: practical and as like, you know, straightforward and clear as possible.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 5: So because I feel like there's a lot of like
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 5: you know, anyway, we'll say that for the next episode.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: I have a great night, buddy, and I wish you
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: the best. All right, thanks a lot, Deve anytime, buddy,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: take care right.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any filmuscle dot
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: com forwards Lash eight twenty nine, and if you have
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: it already, please head over to filmmaking podcast dot com.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: so much for listening to guys. As always, keep that
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe out there,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 1:27:18
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• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: dot com,