Latest / MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast / MC Fireside Chats - August 12th, 2026

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MC Fireside Chats - August 12th, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

• 0:45
  Brian Searl: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 0:48
  Brian Searl: My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground, and by the only plant I could find real quick, 'cause it's raining outside and I had to come inside and couldn't do the show in my normal outdoor hospitality
• 0:57
  Brian Searl: setting.
• 0:57
  Brian Searl: Uh, but we're here excited back, uh, for another episode with a couple of our recurring guests that are, uh, excited to have join us.
• 1:02
  Brian Searl: Zach Stoltenberg is here.
• 1:04
  Brian Searl: Uh, Tom Mason's a new recurring guest from IVEE for this week.
• 1:07
  Brian Searl: Welcome, Tom.
• 1:07
  Brian Searl: I'll have everybody introduce themselves in a second.
• 1:09
  Brian Searl: Scott Foos has been missing for, like, I don't know, a couple years.
• 1:12
  Brian Searl: Popped out, and, like, have you been...
• 1:13
  Brian Searl: What have you been doing, Scott?
• 1:15
  Brian Searl: Were you, like, in Asia or something, like, got your head down?
• 1:17
  Brian Searl: Are you s- been working, or what's been going on?
• 1:19
  Scott Foos: Working, uh, yes, working, traveling, two young kids on summer break.
• 1:25
  Scott Foos: Uh, it's, life's been busy, but I'm really glad to be here.
• 1:28
  Brian Searl: Well, we're excited to have you back too.
• 1:30
  Brian Searl: Uh, Jayne Cohen, recurring guest.
• 1:32
  Brian Searl: Chris Lambert from Streamside, uh, uh, Parks is, uh, one of our, uh, special guests this week.
• 1:36
  Brian Searl: Uh, and we've got Kaleigh, who's a, I think you're, you're a new recurring guest, too, right, Kaleigh?
• 1:40
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 1:41
  Brian Searl: Yeah, okay.
• 1:42
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:42
  Brian Searl: See, they don't tell me anything.
• 1:43
  Brian Searl: I just show up and I talk, and I, I can't even say I look pretty, 'cause I don't do that, obviously.
• 1:47
  Brian Searl: You're all looking at this.
• 1:48
  Brian Searl: Um, but okay, so let's go around and briefly introduce ourselves.
• 1:51
  Zach Stoltenberg: Zach, do you wanna start?
• 1:53
  Zach Stoltenberg: Sure.
• 1:54
  Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, Zach Stoltenberg.
• 1:55
  Zach Stoltenberg: I'm with LJA Engineering.
• 1:57
  Zach Stoltenberg: I'm an architect, and then we specialize in helping people design, plan, permit, and then title glamping and campground projects all over the country and, and in some other countries too.
• 2:11
  Brian Searl: Welcome, Zach.
• 2:12
  Brian Searl: Whoever wants to go next
• 2:16
  Tom Mason: I'll go next.
• 2:17
  Tom Mason: Uh, Tom Mason with IVEE Management, and, uh, we are a third-party management company, uh, operating parks all across the United States, and we've been doing it since 2017, and I head up the organization.
• 2:33
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Tom.
• 2:34
  Brian Searl: Scott?
• 2:36
  Scott Foos: Hey, yeah.
• 2:36
  Scott Foos: I'm Scott Foos.
• 2:37
  Scott Foos: I'm with Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.
• 2:39
  Scott Foos: We're a full service hospitality management firm and professional services, uh, provider for the outdoor hospitality industry.
• 2:48
  Scott Foos: We, uh, we work with, with, uh, with properties nationwide, and, um, have, have been, I've been in the industry since 2005, and, um, happy to, to, to be here.
• 3:01
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Scott, as always.
• 3:03
  Brian Searl: Uh, Kaleigh?
• 3:04
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 3:04
  Kaleigh Day: Hi, my name's Kaleigh Day.
• 3:06
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, my husband and I own and operate Surf Junction Campground out in Ucluelet, BC.
• 3:10
  Kaleigh Day: We bought it back in...
• 3:12
  Kaleigh Day: We bought it back in 2012 and have been running it ever since.
• 3:19
  Kaleigh Day: Um, and yeah, that's pretty much it.
• 3:21
  Kaleigh Day: We also have...
• 3:22
  Kaleigh Day: We also have a surf school as well.
• 3:25
  Brian Searl: Welcome.
• 3:25
  Brian Searl: Appreciate you being here.
• 3:27
  Brian Searl: Uh, Chris, you wanna go?
• 3:32
  Brian Searl: Release Chris?
• 3:35
  Brian Searl: I know it's frozen I think, I think Chris is frozen for me, so Jayne, are you there too?
• 3:41
  Jayne Cohen: I am here but I'm having problems with my camera.
• 3:44
  Jayne Cohen: But I'm Jayne Cohen from, I'm the CEO of Campground Consulting Group, and, uh, based out of the East Coast.
• 3:52
  Brian Searl: Welcome, Jayne.
• 3:53
  Brian Searl: I'm having problems with my camera too.
• 3:54
  Brian Searl: For whatever reason I look like this, so just kind of ignore that for this week.
• 3:59
  Brian Searl: Um, but okay.
• 4:00
  Brian Searl: So what, so typically what we do is we start this kind of episode, we'll turn to our recurring guests.
• 4:03
  Brian Searl: So, uh, Kaleigh and Tom are new.
• 4:05
  Brian Searl: Uh, you can contribute certainly too, Zach, Scott-
• 4:08
  Jayne Cohen: Hi
• 4:08
  Brian Searl: uh, and Jayne.
• 4:09
  Jayne Cohen: Hello.
• 4:10
  Brian Searl: Is there anything that's been, uh, coming across your desk in the last month since we've been together on this show that you guys think we should be talking about or discussing?
• 4:20
  Brian Searl: No?
• 4:20
  Brian Searl: Everybody's gonna be quiet at the same time?
• 4:22
  Kaleigh Day: No.
• 4:24
  Zach Stoltenberg: I always like to hear what other people are, are seeing before I pipe in
• 4:30
  Brian Searl: All right, Scott, what have you been seeing?
• 4:31
  Brian Searl: You've been missing for a couple months in action here.
• 4:33
  Brian Searl: What have you been seeing as you've traveled around and been managing client parks and-
• 4:37
  Scott Foos: Yeah
• 4:37
  Brian Searl: you can talk about your kids if you want, but I think the parks is probably more interesting to our audience.
• 4:42
  Scott Foos: Pr- pr- probably this audience, yeah.
• 4:44
  Scott Foos: Um, yeah.
• 4:45
  Scott Foos: Well, one of the things that, uh, that I've been, or that we've been noticing as, as a firm has been, um, you know, folks have obviously been talking about, um, the, uh, the fact that transient business is, is
• 4:59
  Scott Foos: down, extended stay business is, is strengthening.
• 5:03
  Scott Foos: You know, that's, I think, I think everybody here probably knows that has, has, has heard of that.
• 5:09
  Scott Foos: Um, but I think what's interesting to me is seeing that, uh, a lot of the underwriting that was done in the COVID boom, in the COVID years '21, '23, um, you know, hasn't materialized for, for many people that,
• 5:27
  Scott Foos: that were buyers in that timeframe.
• 5:29
  Scott Foos: And we're coming up on a lot of five-year hold patterns and, um, for investors.
• 5:35
  Scott Foos: And I think, I think it's interesting to see, um, folks that have been, uh, operators, um, that have been, uh, attempting to, to, to drive additional seasonal and extended stay business, um, and kinda the reversion back in many
• 5:51
  Scott Foos: ways to what the industry, um, was in terms of that split of demographics, uh, pre-COVID, and some of the ways that different operators, um, are, are attracting those guests.
• 6:06
  Scott Foos: And, and, um, and further to, to, I think the point that's interesting to me is seeing many people that are trying to do...
• 6:14
  Scott Foos: attract both types of, of guests at the same time, and not really having a lot of intention behind how they're attracting transient versus extended stay guests and, and I think leaving some guests feeling a bit, uh, underwhelmed on
• 6:29
  Scott Foos: both ends of the spectrum.
• 6:30
  Scott Foos: Um, so I know this is, uh, supposed to be a bit more, uh, guest experience, uh, focused, but I think that trend, um, is something that, that's, that's tracking now, and I'm curious if others in, in this space
• 6:44
  Scott Foos: that are in the...
• 6:45
  Scott Foos: uh, on this panel that are in the, the management or, or acquisition side are, are seeing some of that, that same thing.
• 6:53
  Tom Mason: Well, Scott, you and I are in the same, same world, so I agree with your, you know, what the trend has been, downward transient, upward extended stay, long-term stay.
• 7:07
  Tom Mason: Uh, and if you made that shift, you know, say last year, were able to make some of that shift last year, your pr- your benef- we're...
• 7:15
  Tom Mason: You can benefit because you're, you, you filled the park with more long-term stays.
• 7:20
  Tom Mason: Uh, and whatever transient's coming in, if you, in theory, kinda shrunk your park, you'd maybe be able to scrape away a few extra bucks- In ADR because you have fewer sites available for transient.
• 7:32
  Tom Mason: So that's, uh, that's a trend that I don't see changing too much in the near future.
• 7:38
  Tom Mason: Uh, but going back to your comment about, you know, during COVID and underwriting not meeting, uh, the requirements, that then takes you to the next phase, what happens to those parks?
• 7:52
  Tom Mason: And, uh, I'm starting to see some of that, um, pressure be placed on the owners who went through that process three, four years ago.
• 8:03
  Tom Mason: The banks are now beginning to ask questions.
• 8:07
  Brian Searl: I was, I was commenting on this to Scott Bahr this morning in a chat, and I just said kind of anecdotally, like, "I feel like I'm getting a whole lot more emails of parks that are for sale in
• 8:15
  Brian Searl: the last couple weeks."
• 8:16
  Brian Searl: So- And I don't know if we have a directly, direct correlation, but it must in some way, right?
• 8:23
  Kaleigh Day: So long-term overall, 'cause I'm kind of in a pretty, you know, uh, zoomed in space, right?
• 8:28
  Kaleigh Day: I have my bubble, and we have, like, the Vancouver Island tourism, which is, I think, a bit different from, like, the RV parks around the States for the most part.
• 8:38
  Kaleigh Day: So it sounds like long-term, uh, stays are down, are declining
• 8:45
  Brian Searl: I think long-term stays are stable mostly and transient is declining, right?
• 8:50
  Brian Searl: Is that fair?
• 8:50
  Scott Foos: Yeah.
• 8:51
  Scott Foos: Yeah, I think that's fair.
• 8:52
  Scott Foos: And, you know, I think you look back at, um, you know, w- uh, just my own personal, uh, uh, experience in this specific situation, and I think, you know, others would, would have similar paths.
• 9:04
  Scott Foos: But clients that were acquiring properties in 2020, '21, '22 with the thesis that transient demand is, is, is growing and booming and, um, uh, many properties had a high level of seasonal or extended stay, uh, occupants pre-COVID.
• 9:21
  Scott Foos: Yeah.
• 9:21
  Scott Foos: And, and that, you know, they, they were able to capitalize on that for a short period of time, but now we're, you know, certainly the last few years we've been reverting back.
• 9:33
  Scott Foos: And so then the entire investment thesis for the most part is, um, is out the window.
• 9:38
  Scott Foos: And so figuring out how to how to make it work in a, in a very different environment is, um, i- is I think something that one of the reasons, Brian, why you're seeing, we're seeing more properties coming onto
• 9:50
  Scott Foos: the market
• 9:52
  Brian Searl: Well, here's the, here's the, here's a question I have.
• 9:53
  Brian Searl: Are we actually reverting or are we just reverting in RV?
• 9:57
  Brian Searl: Because there's a whole lot of demand out there that I see for people going-
• 10:00
  Zach Stoltenberg: I would say-
• 10:01
  Brian Searl: camping and glamping and everything else, right?
• 10:03
  Scott Foos: So specifically I'm talking RV.
• 10:05
  Zach Stoltenberg: If I were to weigh in.
• 10:05
  Scott Foos: Yeah.
• 10:06
  Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah.
• 10:07
  Zach Stoltenberg: On, on my side, on the design side, um, I think we're seeing similar trends, but different decisions being made.
• 10:16
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, so y- as an example, we're working with an operator right now, uh, with a site down in Texas that made a decision, I don't know, four or five years ago, um, to put in RV sites.
• 10:30
  Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, wanting to take advantage of that push, uh, that high transient market.
• 10:37
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, they put in I think about 50 sites, uh, at, at one of the properties, and it never really materialized.
• 10:47
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, location is tough.
• 10:49
  Zach Stoltenberg: It's on a lake.
• 10:50
  Zach Stoltenberg: It's a beautiful property on a lake.
• 10:52
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, but, y- you know, the, the demand just wasn't there for RV.
• 10:58
  Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, they shared with me, they said really the only time the RV has paid off, uh, there was a new factory being built, uh, a few miles away from their location, and there was a whole bunch of workers.
• 11:08
  Zach Stoltenberg: They came in to build that, I think it was a, a automotive factory or something, or battery plant or something.
• 11:15
  Zach Stoltenberg: But, um, she said, "Yeah, we were full for about nine months.
• 11:18
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and then they finished construction and all the workers left."
• 11:21
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and so now we're working with them to revamp that section and we're looking at, uh, converting some of those to modular or park built, uh, park model cabins.
• 11:33
  Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, some of them we're just gonna scrap altogether and, and have a little more open space, a big communal area between several sites.
• 11:41
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and they are very interested in pushing into glamping and some alternative units, uh, because in their market, the, the demand drivers that they're seeing are people that wanna come to the lake, families, kids, uh, fishermen is a
• 11:56
  Zach Stoltenberg: big market for them.
• 11:57
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and so we're looking at more stick-built and modular cabins, some unique glamping structures.
• 12:04
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and then really the other thing that I'm, I'm seeing or we're seeing on our end, a, a push, a trend across outdoor hospitality right now is really to groups and families.
• 12:16
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, so larger units or, or, you know, larger homes that maybe you can accommodate 12 to 14, 16 people in.
• 12:25
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and ADRs for those can be really, really high because usually you're, you're splitting it amongst three or four families.
• 12:33
  Zach Stoltenberg: You know, if you looked at a 16-person unit, uh, $1,200 for a night, that's, you know, for four families, that's $200 a family.
• 12:42
  Zach Stoltenberg: You could stay in a regular hotel for that.
• 12:45
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and so that's, that's another trend that we're seeing is really chasing groups, uh, specifically families and kids and, and people pivoting away from that transient RV and converting those sites into something that maybe is a little more
• 12:59
  Zach Stoltenberg: stable, a little bit more in demand, or might have a higher ADR
• 13:06
  Scott Foos: Yeah, I, I, I think that, that really resonates and, and I think when we look at fr- uh, when we look at the different stay types between RV and lodging, and Brian you- You, you, you br- brought up
• 13:18
  Scott Foos: a great point, that lodging overall is continuing to perform well, outperforming this year specifically, but has been trending in that way for some time.
• 13:29
  Scott Foos: And I think, Zach, to your point, you know, we, we resonate with that, that a lot of folks that have stayed in, in traditional hotel, uh, offerings understand the unique benefits now that booking, you know, a pod of
• 13:43
  Scott Foos: cabins together with that communal space, but having shared, having separate s- shared but separate spaces as well, or the larger homes, it, it really resonates.
• 13:52
  Scott Foos: But then on the RV side too, I think maybe go back to what Kaleigh's doing with, with her us.
• 13:57
  Scott Foos: But I mean, those, those RV destinations that are very specific on experiences and destination markets, that are building experiences not just as a revenue line item, but to truly solve needs for their guests, are performing well.
• 14:13
  Scott Foos: I mean, I don't know Kaleigh's business, but I'm sure it's performing well because they're very intentional with where they are.
• 14:20
  Scott Foos: Kaleigh, does that, does that track with what you're seeing?
• 14:22
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 14:23
  Kaleigh Day: Our RV section's just full year round, but we're on this, um, RV rental, Europeans flying into Calgary, getting the RVs, doing the Rockies.
• 14:33
  Kaleigh Day: They kind of end where we are and then go to fly out of Vancouver.
• 14:37
  Kaleigh Day: So we have this stream of RV rentals, and so they book early.
• 14:42
  Kaleigh Day: They, um, they're great.
• 14:44
  Kaleigh Day: They're, we have a huge number of Europeans that come out here, um, and like Canada is a big hot ticket item for them.
• 14:51
  Kaleigh Day: And especially in the last couple of years, um, last like three or four it's really taken off again.
• 14:57
  Kaleigh Day: Um, 'cause obviously it dipped during COVID.
• 15:00
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, but yeah, so we haven't really seen that.
• 15:03
  Kaleigh Day: That's why it's like I'm so zoomed in.
• 15:05
  Kaleigh Day: It's like interesting hearing the trends, um, everywhere else, uh, because- Mm-hmm we're kind of just like a, a set.
• 15:12
  Kaleigh Day: Um, yeah.
• 15:14
  Kaleigh Day: We haven't really, we don't see those trends too, too much.
• 15:18
  Kaleigh Day: Um, but there is definitely a different-
• 15:18
  Brian Searl: Well, I don't think we've seen it in, in a large part of Canada overall, right, Kaleigh?
• 15:22
  Brian Searl: Like I, I mean I'm in Calgary, but like I, I talk to Cara all the time.
• 15:25
  Brian Searl: Cara Csizmadia's on the show once a month from the Canadian Camping and RV Council, and like I think we've benefited greatly from the Canadians staying home from going south for whatever reason they might be doing that.
• 15:36
  Kaleigh Day: Yes.
• 15:37
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 15:37
  Brian Searl: Uh, we won't get into that today, but like we've-
• 15:40
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 15:40
  Brian Searl: benefited from that.
• 15:40
  Brian Searl: And so I, I think there's maybe something coming that might be a little bit of a downturn for, let's just call it the macro level in Canada in the next-
• 15:47
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah
• 15:47
  Brian Searl: one or two years if the economy doesn't fix itself, but I think parks that are in your position may be insulated somewhat from that.
• 15:53
  Kaleigh Day: And, and we also, camping thrives, you know, when the cost of living goes up.
• 15:57
  Kaleigh Day: So, um- Mm-hmm that's like another thing right now.
• 16:00
  Kaleigh Day: It's like a lot of, more people are camping.
• 16:02
  Kaleigh Day: We're one of the more affordable, uh, accommodations in our area.
• 16:06
  Kaleigh Day: So right now tenting, a lot of family, it's their first time camping.
• 16:10
  Kaleigh Day: They'll borrow some gear and they come and camp with us, but they don't have any experience camping.
• 16:14
  Kaleigh Day: We aren't- Typical campers.
• 16:16
  Kaleigh Day: So it's been interesting, um, because, you know, hotels and everything, the costs are just starting to go up and up and up.
• 16:22
  Kaleigh Day: So, like, they typically would have rented the cabins or whatever, but now, um, so our shoulder season for camping is starting to get busier and busier is what we're finding.
• 16:33
  Kaleigh Day: Um-
• 16:34
  Brian Searl: But that, that goes back to the guest experience.
• 16:35
  Brian Searl: Like, I was talking to, I think it's Jamie Scott, who's the leader of the BC Provincial Association-
• 16:40
  Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm
• 16:41
  Brian Searl: a few weeks ago, and I think I mentioned it on this show, but he was talking about there was a, a campground on Vancouver Island that was trying to go for RVs, and they weren't really full, and he
• 16:49
  Brian Searl: talked them into converting to tents, and now they're just They can't, they have waiting lists that are so long because everybody is willing to come over from Vancouver.
• 16:57
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 16:57
  Brian Searl: Millions of people sitting right there that can cross the ferry, but didn't have an RV.
• 17:00
  Brian Searl: And so it's all goes back to this where the show is kind of about guest experience, right?
• 17:04
  Brian Searl: It's am I measuring what my guest wants versus what the demand is versus what they can afford versus all the intangibles, right?
• 17:10
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 17:10
  Brian Searl: And if you can figure out, then, like, on a macro level, I think there's a whole lot of success still to be had in our industry.
• 17:17
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah, I think so.
• 17:17
  Kaleigh Day: Especially with where, um, where we live, there's a ferry that goes from the mainland of, um, Canada out to the island, and that, the cost is starting to get, just go through the roof.
• 17:28
  Kaleigh Day: So now it's like, especially if you're in a trailer or RV.
• 17:32
  Kaleigh Day: So that's something that really impacts.
• 17:33
  Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm.
• 17:33
  Kaleigh Day: That's why the Europeans, for them, they're like a shoo-in 'cause it's their big vacation, right?
• 17:38
  Kaleigh Day: But a lot more local BC or wherever Canadians, if you will, are starting to forego their trailers and their motor homes 'cause the cost, the gas, ferry, and then the si- the RV sites are a lot more expensive
• 17:51
  Kaleigh Day: as well.
• 17:52
  Kaleigh Day: So a lot more people here where we are are starting to go back to camping, or tenting, sorry.
• 17:59
  Brian Searl: Chris, do we have you back now?
• 18:01
  Chris Lambert: Yes, I apologize.
• 18:02
  Chris Lambert: I don't know why my WiFi went out.
• 18:03
  Chris Lambert: Um, Chris Lambert-
• 18:04
  Brian Searl: That's okay
• 18:05
  Chris Lambert: CEO of, uh, Streamside Parks.
• 18:07
  Chris Lambert: Happy to be here.
• 18:08
  Chris Lambert: Um, been in the industry about three years now, so I'm the newbie.
• 18:11
  Chris Lambert: Uh, excited to learn and, uh, and connect with everybody on the call, so.
• 18:14
  Brian Searl: So well, newbie, tell us about Streamside Parks now that we have you back, just in case
• 18:18
  Chris Lambert: we have to get rid of you again.
• 18:19
  Chris Lambert: Yeah, we've grown fast.
• 18:20
  Chris Lambert: I've been with them three years, and when I started we had seven parks, and now we're, uh, pushing 40.
• 18:26
  Chris Lambert: So-
• 18:27
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, wow
• 18:27
  Chris Lambert: we've expanded pretty quickly.
• 18:30
  Chris Lambert: Um, but I, I think it's, it's a, I have a big, um, hospitality background in restaurant management specifically, so it's all people business.
• 18:37
  Chris Lambert: We're just, uh, in the lodging and, uh, RV business instead of putting pasta on a plate and making people smile.
• 18:44
  Chris Lambert: So, um, there's a lot of related things there.
• 18:49
  Brian Searl: So as you listen to the conversations that we've been having in the first few minutes of the show, you are still a net acquirer of parks, as you just said.
• 18:56
  Brian Searl: What, what kinda goes through your head when you're hearing all these conversations?
• 18:59
  Chris Lambert: Yeah, I, I, I think it's specialization and, and understanding nuance.
• 19:03
  Chris Lambert: I think, you know, there's, were some, some trends we could ride previously, but now I think we have to really dig and look at each park level, regional level, as it relates to what the guest experience and what
• 19:13
  Chris Lambert: the, the, you know, the market can give us.
• 19:16
  Chris Lambert: But then also on the, on the macro level, what can we do fundamentally, you know, as a portfolio, some key deliverables that we can focus on to, uh, to m- make your a, gu- guest, great guest experience.
• 19:28
  Chris Lambert: Um, and then so, you know, that's, that's where, uh, that's what I enjoy is, is kinda getting under the hood on developing our team and finding great people and great leaders, uh, kind of building a culture, um, of
• 19:41
  Chris Lambert: people first.
• 19:42
  Chris Lambert: And, um, and, uh, it's been really well received and I've just really embraced, uh, the RV industry as well, so.
• 19:51
  Brian Searl: So what makes Streamside a little bit different?
• 19:53
  Brian Searl: What are you guys trying to accomplish for those that don't know you?
• 19:55
  Chris Lambert: Um, I, I think, um, for us we're, you know, we're a house of brands, not a branded house approach.
• 20:01
  Chris Lambert: So, you know, where we want to make sure the park level dynamic is first and then Streamside is second.
• 20:08
  Chris Lambert: So we're not pushing down this corporate...
• 20:10
  Chris Lambert: We're not a McDonald's, we're not a franchise model.
• 20:13
  Chris Lambert: We're looking at what makes that park specifically unique, what's the history, what's the legacy, what's the, the local interactions, and, and build and add support to that.
• 20:23
  Chris Lambert: So I think that's, that's part of it.
• 20:25
  Chris Lambert: And, and also for me being the operational leader, it's about people.
• 20:29
  Chris Lambert: Um, you know, that, that's what makes these ticks, you know?
• 20:32
  Chris Lambert: Um, you, you can, you can live and die by that sword, but, um, but I think a lot of it is just having the right people at the right place doing the right things.
• 20:41
  Brian Searl: So how do you end up as COO at Streamside?
• 20:43
  Brian Searl: What's your story?
• 20:45
  Chris Lambert: So started with, uh, restaurants when I was 15 and didn't leave them.
• 20:50
  Chris Lambert: Um, and so, you know, as kids were getting older, I wanted more of a, a different change.
• 20:55
  Chris Lambert: Um, met John, the, the founder and CEO, um, and, uh, we, we really had a really good relationship and, um, was able to...
• 21:04
  Chris Lambert: So again, you know, he kind of told me to hold on, but, uh, didn't realize we were gonna grow as fast as we, we have.
• 21:09
  Chris Lambert: But, um, but it's not about, I think, number of parks as much as quality of parks and, and, uh, and really understanding the challenges, the nuances of each one.
• 21:19
  Chris Lambert: Um, so, you know, that's a little bit about my background.
• 21:23
  Chris Lambert: A, a, a lot...
• 21:23
  Chris Lambert: I'm a tent camper, so it's glad to hear the tents coming back.
• 21:26
  Chris Lambert: Uh, um, hopefully I'll be coming around that trend.
• 21:30
  Chris Lambert: Um, but, you know, I think a lot of it is I love the outdoors, I love people, I love solving problems, taking care of people.
• 21:36
  Chris Lambert: So that's what makes me happy.
• 21:41
  Brian Searl: You're, you're gonna make me ask all the questions?
• 21:43
  Brian Searl: Nobody has anything else to say?
• 21:45
  Brian Searl: Yeah, it's quiet.
• 21:46
  Tom Mason: Well, welcome to our world, uh-
• 21:48
  Chris Lambert: It's your show
• 21:48
  Tom Mason: Chris.
• 21:50
  Tom Mason: Chris, welcome to our world, and if you ever need, I don't know, Scott and I and you are kind of doing a lot of the same things, so feel free to reach out if you have questions.
• 22:00
  Chris Lambert: Yep will do
• 22:01
  Tom Mason: I would feel the same
• 22:05
  Brian Searl: All right, what else is going on in the world?
• 22:06
  Brian Searl: We're talking about guest experience on the show today.
• 22:08
  Brian Searl: What else is, uh- What else is new?
• 22:10
  Brian Searl: Because I, because I think, like, as we have this conversation, as we talk about some of the things that on a macro level, obviously there are micro successes, on a macro level, transient RV specifically might be having a,
• 22:23
  Brian Searl: a temporary issue that, I don't know, who, who knows how long that's gonna go on, right?
• 22:27
  Brian Searl: I'm of a provincial mindset.
• 22:28
  Brian Searl: I don't think we're ever gonna sell as many RVs as we did in 2019 ever again.
• 22:33
  Brian Searl: But I, I don't know if I'm right or wrong.
• 22:35
  Brian Searl: I still think there's a very bright future for outdoor hospitality.
• 22:37
  Brian Searl: But I think it all goes down to that guest experience.
• 22:39
  Brian Searl: I think there's been a, and again, I'm saying this on a macro level, right?
• 22:43
  Brian Searl: Uh, there are certainly tons of micro example successes that we could talk about.
• 22:47
  Brian Searl: I think on a macro level, many people who have run RV parks in the last 60 years have had to do very little thinking about the guest experience.
• 22:55
  Brian Searl: And Scott, you've been in, in the industry for a long time.
• 22:57
  Brian Searl: You can maybe talk to that too, but, but what I mean by that is not that you don't care about your guests.
• 23:02
  Brian Searl: They do.
• 23:03
  Brian Searl: But that most people who have been your typical RV park guest for the last 60 years have wanted the same thing.
• 23:09
  Brian Searl: They've wanted the parking lot with the miniature golf course and maybe the swimming pool and a little camp store where they can buy some goods and take their grandkids for the weekend or whatever else, and the expectation hasn't
• 23:18
  Brian Searl: changed, so they haven't had to diagnose the guest experience.
• 23:21
  Brian Searl: Is that fair, Scott, or am I way off base?
• 23:24
  Scott Foos: No, I, I, I think that's, I think that's absolutely fair.
• 23:28
  Scott Foos: I think that, you know, um, the industry and expectations have been, uh, evolving and those demands have been, uh, evolving, uh, you know, for some time.
• 23:40
  Scott Foos: But I certainly think that, uh, in today's economy, um, and post-COVID, and with the emerging, um, you know, Gen Z and millennial becoming, uh, demographic becoming even more of a going concern in our industry, uh, like all things,
• 23:59
  Scott Foos: that, that has to shift and evolve.
• 24:01
  Scott Foos: And, and I think what we see is properties, are properties trying to, to be both things without doing either of them really well.
• 24:14
  Scott Foos: Mm.
• 24:14
  Scott Foos: And it's not so much knowing your guest.
• 24:16
  Scott Foos: I mean, of course it's important to know your, know your guest.
• 24:20
  Scott Foos: Um, but it's, it's really in, in, in understanding how to double down and offer the right amenities and the right experience, the right programming for each of, each of your demographic types.
• 24:37
  Scott Foos: And sp- if we keep it kinda macro right now and, and focus on RV, transient versus extended stay, um, you know, I think that they require very different, very different approaches.
• 24:50
  Scott Foos: And we're seeing properties that had been acquired with the goal of acqui- of, of paring down seasonal and growing transient with operators that haven't been in the space, um, or you know, uh, just don't have a lot of
• 25:07
  Scott Foos: experience at all in hospitality, not just in RV, um, try to, try to successfully now rebuild a program that was maybe there before, um, is they're having a difficult time without really knowing what the guests are looking for.
• 25:22
  Scott Foos: And it's, it, it's, it's more structural in how the investment thesis was underwritten and how that property can be supported financially and with enough patience on the capital side to be able to achieve those goals.
• 25:38
  Scott Foos: And I think, not to go back to the point about the five-year hold, but many investors acquire properties with five, seven-year holds.
• 25:46
  Scott Foos: We're coming up against that, and so patience is, is running out.
• 25:50
  Scott Foos: And, um, I think there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for folks that can understand how to double down on those experiences for those different types of guests moving forward to, uh, to potentially acquire properties to really get
• 26:06
  Scott Foos: more specific about the actual experience they're trying to, to build.
• 26:12
  Brian Searl: Does the math work on all of these parks that were acquired, though?
• 26:15
  Brian Searl: 'Cause I remember reading a, I was reading a, uh, I can't remember.
• 26:18
  Brian Searl: It was a Facebook post in a, in one of, maybe it was Kep's group, either this morning or yesterday.
• 26:21
  Brian Searl: They were talking about a 30, 40-site RV park and how that may not be mathematically possible to run and with today's interest rates and today's expenses and today's inflation with the staff that you need and all the, and
• 26:31
  Brian Searl: all the things.
• 26:32
  Brian Searl: Jayne, what do you think of it?
• 26:33
  Brian Searl: Does that make ma- mathematically sense with the types of properties that are trying to succeed in 2026?
• 26:39
  Jayne Cohen: Yes.
• 26:40
  Jayne Cohen: I, I, I think that, uh, unless, um, you're gonna be a true, like, mom-and-pop type of operation, which there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, um, you gotta get into that, like, 200, 250 site number to really, uh, make
• 27:01
  Jayne Cohen: the numbers make sense.
• 27:03
  Jayne Cohen: And it's really a very simple calculation, uh, you know, if you're gonna acquire a park or you're gonna build a park, just back of the envelope kinda numbers is looking at, you know, what can a site, what does
• 27:22
  Jayne Cohen: a site gross, right?
• 27:24
  Jayne Cohen: What's the gross of, of, uh, if you're buying a campground and you're gonna build a campground and you do your comps, what is the, what do you think each site can gross?
• 27:35
  Jayne Cohen: And if you just simply say, "Well, if I'm grossing, let's make it easy, if I can gross 10,000 a year, but I'm paying 100,000 a site," right?
• 27:47
  Jayne Cohen: Or, "It's gonna cost me 100 grand a site to build, but I, my gross is 10," then I've gotta sit there for 10 years.
• 27:55
  Jayne Cohen: And, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of what Scott just said, you know?
• 28:00
  Jayne Cohen: You, you've gotta prepare to, to hold that asset.
• 28:05
  Jayne Cohen: And, um, what's happened now is with interest rates staying high, right?
• 28:13
  Jayne Cohen: And maybe even getting higher, I, I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball, um, a lot of people when they get to the five-year mark, their note is about to adjust.
• 28:25
  Jayne Cohen: So if they had a lower interest rate, or it has adjusted, but if they have a low interest rate or a lower interest rate and they're adjusting now, chances are their interest rates are gonna go up, and that,
• 28:40
  Jayne Cohen: that really hurts.
• 28:43
  Jayne Cohen: Uh, and, and that's...
• 28:46
  Jayne Cohen: We're starting to see that.
• 28:48
  Jayne Cohen: Uh, I don't know if anyone else is starting to see that, but we're starting to see those interest rates now being called and going up, and some are having to put some capital in.
• 29:00
  Jayne Cohen: Um, some of the syndicated models are, you know, asking investors for more capital, that type of thing.
• 29:09
  Jayne Cohen: So not, not, you know, doom and gloom, it's just financial...
• 29:13
  Jayne Cohen: This is just financials You know, operationally the park might be performing, but the interest rates and the outs- outside of that is, is difficult.
• 29:24
  Jayne Cohen: Is a difficult scenario.
• 29:27
  Tom Mason: Jayne, in addition to that, your insurance cost in ma- in almost every park has-
• 29:32
  Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm
• 29:33
  Tom Mason: doubled, tripled, uh, you know, in, in, in a lot of markets.
• 29:38
  Tom Mason: So between the interest rate increases, the revenue not materializing- Mm-hmm as the underwritten, underwriting indicated, and then other pressures.
• 29:48
  Tom Mason: You can even use property tax.
• 29:50
  Tom Mason: Property taxes have increased as well.
• 29:52
  Tom Mason: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Tom Mason: And insurance, that's added additional pressure on operators to find savings while labor continues to go up-
• 30:01
  Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm and our rate, you know, rates are soggy and, you know, they're not just...
• 30:07
  Jayne Cohen: You know, we're going extended stay, which, you know, doesn't- Which lowers your ADR
• 30:12
  Tom Mason: maybe over the course of a year.
• 30:14
  Tom Mason: Yeah, but over a course of a year, maybe you generate more revenue, but, you know, it's a, it's a pressure that, uh, exists at, at many parks across the US I think now.
• 30:25
  Jayne Cohen: You're right, Tom, and it's not...
• 30:27
  Jayne Cohen: To be honest, it's not just insurance that's going up.
• 30:30
  Jayne Cohen: We're actually starting to see a little leveling in insurance, but it's still very high.
• 30:34
  Jayne Cohen: It's like everything's going up, right?
• 30:38
  Jayne Cohen: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Jayne Cohen: Electricity's going up.
• 30:39
  Jayne Cohen: Um, cost of labor is going up.
• 30:42
  Jayne Cohen: Even trying to- Yeah find labor is difficult, and when you do find them, it's going up even more because you're, you know, you're inflating it just to get that person so they won't work at McDonald's, right?
• 30:55
  Jayne Cohen: I mean-
• 30:55
  Tom Mason: Right.
• 30:56
  Tom Mason: Right
• 30:56
  Jayne Cohen: it's, it's, it's crazy and, um, and a lot of parks are, they're at their rate height.
• 31:07
  Jayne Cohen: Do you know what I mean?
• 31:08
  Jayne Cohen: They can't...
• 31:09
  Jayne Cohen: Their, their rates are high, and they can't push the rate anymore because we are seeing campers having rate resistance, right?
• 31:21
  Jayne Cohen: We came off of COVID, and you could kinda do whatever you wanted in COVID.
• 31:25
  Jayne Cohen: Push your rates high, but now people are reacting to rates is what I'm finding.
• 31:32
  Jayne Cohen: Um, and so those- Mm-hmm of us that are yielding, which I'm a big believer in dynamic pricing or yielding, it's, uh, it's really a science.
• 31:42
  Jayne Cohen: Like, you've gotta be aware of it.
• 31:45
  Tom Mason: But, uh, you know, listen to that-
• 31:46
  Zach Stoltenberg: So I have a question
• 31:47
  Tom Mason: I wanna bring back just real quick, um, the, the idea, and I think, uh, Chris brought it up, and, uh, you know, Scott and I believe in it.
• 31:54
  Tom Mason: It's about the people, and if you hire the right people, you can create the right culture at the park, and the experience is the customer will enjoy it, and that will help that park, um, immensely, you know?
• 32:09
  Tom Mason: And you're al- we're always looking for the individual that has the skillsets on the HR side, customer relations, employee relations to create that environment that employees wanna be there, the guests wanna be there.
• 32:23
  Tom Mason: It's a, it's a good environment.
• 32:25
  Tom Mason: All the other factors, you know, are ownership issues.
• 32:28
  Tom Mason: Those are the things we deal with, you know, managing that, that process.
• 32:32
  Tom Mason: Mm-hmm.
• 32:32
  Tom Mason: So, but I, I kinda wanna bring it back.
• 32:34
  Tom Mason: It's, it's really finding the right individual or individuals at a park that can, uh, make it an experience that the customer loves.
• 32:44
  Kaleigh Day: I think, uh-
• 32:44
  Brian Searl: I wanna go to in a-
• 32:46
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, sorry
• 32:46
  Brian Searl: or Kaleigh in a second, but just, uh, I thought Zach was gonna say something too before.
• 32:49
  Brian Searl: But Tom-
• 32:49
  Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah
• 32:50
  Brian Searl: my question is, is, like, is, is the staff member enough in 2026?
• 32:53
  Brian Searl: Is it enough to just have an excellent staff member, or do you need something else?
• 32:57
  Tom Mason: No, no.
• 32:58
  Tom Mason: Yeah, but that's, if you don't have that, everything else- Right, that's, you know,
• 33:01
  Brian Searl: that's fair
• 33:01
  Tom Mason: doesn't even matter.
• 33:01
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 33:02
  Tom Mason: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Jayne Cohen: This is a people business.
• 33:04
  Jayne Cohen: Well- This is a people business.
• 33:05
  Jayne Cohen: This is a hospitality business.
• 33:08
  Jayne Cohen: I've been in this business since, for 51 years, and I recognized that when we first bought our first park, and it is, it is people centric.
• 33:21
  Jayne Cohen: I mean, that's the focus, and the real focus, the successful operators are the ones that can increase their repeat and referral business.
• 33:32
  Jayne Cohen: That's the win game.
• 33:34
  Jayne Cohen: Because if you always have to find a new guest, that's the tough thing to do.
• 33:40
  Jayne Cohen: So I always tell my staff, or used to tell my staff, "Shame on us."
• 33:46
  Jayne Cohen: If we, if we get them to our door or get them to ring our phone or get them to our website and we blow it at that point, shame on us.
• 33:57
  Jayne Cohen: Because the hardest thing we had to do was get that first contact with them.
• 34:02
  Jayne Cohen: After that, we got, we gotta do a good enough job to keep them in our web.
• 34:08
  Jayne Cohen: Um, and that's the name of the game.
• 34:11
  Jayne Cohen: I think that's the winning recipe in this business.
• 34:15
  Brian Searl: All right, Zach and then Kaleigh.
• 34:18
  Zach Stoltenberg: So I've got a question that's kind of related to a, a lot of these different things.
• 34:23
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, you know, one thing, yeah, I mean, thinking about these issues now that are, are very real, um, a, a lot of these don't seem to have been issues during COVID or even pre-COVID.
• 34:39
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and I think one of the big changes that's happened industry-wide was a movement away from a lot of these smaller mom-and-pop operations, independent operators, um, you know, family operations, multi-generational, to, you know, during, during COVID, we saw
• 34:57
  Zach Stoltenberg: this huge infusion of capital from institutional groups, um, and moving to these, you know, these larger sort of conglomerates of, you know, owners of 30, 40, 50 parks, 200 parks, things like that.
• 35:12
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and, and from a guest experience perspective, I think some of those things that we've talked about, like that staff connection, you know, who, who your site manager is, making, you know, having that, that forward-facing, that person that's
• 35:28
  Zach Stoltenberg: there.
• 35:29
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, and I think, you know, some operators and, and certainly some third-party management companies do a very good job of, of maintaining that kind of site manager, that forward-facing.
• 35:39
  Zach Stoltenberg: But I think it becomes a little bit harder to cultivate at the institutional level.
• 35:45
  Zach Stoltenberg: I think also, you know, some of the performance metrics, right?
• 35:48
  Zach Stoltenberg: Like independent operators, mom-and-pop, they might feel a crunch one year or another.
• 35:54
  Zach Stoltenberg: They might try some new things, um, you know, to pivot because, hey, this is a down year for this.
• 36:01
  Zach Stoltenberg: Whereas I think changes at, at an institutional level are a little more difficult to implement, um, and adequately fund.
• 36:09
  Zach Stoltenberg: And, and you've got, you know, that board of investors, the, the people they, behind all that capital that are sitting there going, "We don't care if it's a down year.
• 36:17
  Zach Stoltenberg: Where's our payment?"
• 36:19
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, you've got banks saying, "We don't care if you had a bad year.
• 36:22
  Zach Stoltenberg: Like, your interest rates go up because this is your five."
• 36:26
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, how much of these issues do, do we think are, are related to that sort of institutional model that's, that's started to replace some of the independent operators and the mom-and-pops, and, and are they insulated from it?
• 36:49
  Jayne Cohen: Well, Brian, who do you want to answer that?
• 36:54
  Brian Searl: Whoever wants to answer it.
• 36:54
  Brian Searl: You guys are all e- much smarter than I am.
• 36:56
  Brian Searl: Don't look at me.
• 36:56
  Jayne Cohen: I, I'll take, I'll take a stab at it.
• 37:00
  Jayne Cohen: Yeah.
• 37:01
  Jayne Cohen: Um, I think...
• 37:02
  Jayne Cohen: So I think it's always been a people business, and I think if you look, if you look at parks across the country and you look at the mom-and-pops that became big mom-and-pops, you know, sophisticated mom-and-pops, I was one
• 37:17
  Jayne Cohen: of them, um, family businesses that, uh, did well in this industry, they knew that the focus was on their guests, and they knew that the focus was, was taking care of that guest and building repeat and referral business,
• 37:35
  Jayne Cohen: and they did a very, very good job of it.You know?
• 37:39
  Jayne Cohen: And Chris, I, I love the fact that when you came on, and, and by the way, I had not heard of your company, which is surprising 'cause I think I've almost heard of everyone being around for as long
• 37:50
  Jayne Cohen: as I have.
• 37:51
  Jayne Cohen: But it's...
• 37:52
  Jayne Cohen: I, I, I like that you're keeping...
• 37:55
  Jayne Cohen: I, I took it that you're keeping the individual identities of the parks.
• 37:59
  Jayne Cohen: Like, you're becoming a corporate institutional operator, but you're recognizing that the identity of those parks is a valuable asset.
• 38:12
  Jayne Cohen: Is...
• 38:13
  Jayne Cohen: Did I-
• 38:13
  Chris Lambert: 100%
• 38:13
  Jayne Cohen: did I interpret it right?
• 38:15
  Chris Lambert: Yes, absolutely, and it's as you said, I mean, it's about guests, and it's about team.
• 38:20
  Chris Lambert: It's about people.
• 38:21
  Jayne Cohen: Right.
• 38:21
  Jayne Cohen: And we can't, we can't distill that out from a, from a corporate setting, so.
• 38:27
  Jayne Cohen: And I think that's-
• 38:28
  Brian Searl: Well, talk a little bit about-
• 38:29
  Jayne Cohen: super important
• 38:29
  Brian Searl: sorry.
• 38:30
  Brian Searl: Go ahead, Jayne, and then I want to ask Chris a question.
• 38:32
  Jayne Cohen: Go ahead.
• 38:33
  Jayne Cohen: No, go.
• 38:33
  Jayne Cohen: Brian, it's your show.
• 38:35
  Brian Searl: Well, I, okay.
• 38:36
  Brian Searl: So I was just...
• 38:37
  Brian Searl: Chris, I was just gonna ask you, with guest experience, then, is there le- is there learnings that you've taken from your years in restaurants that you think apply to parks?
• 38:49
  Brian Searl: Oh, we lost you.
• 38:49
  Brian Searl: I can't hear you
• 38:53
  Chris Lambert: Okay.
• 38:53
  Chris Lambert: Can you hear me now?
• 38:54
  Brian Searl: Yep.
• 38:56
  Chris Lambert: Um, yeah, there's, there's quite a few things.
• 38:58
  Chris Lambert: Um, you know, stuff that we're, we're constantly teaching, but it's this concept of connection versus checklist, and whether that's rules and regulations, whether that's, you know, SO- SOPs or, you know, processes.
• 39:12
  Chris Lambert: But Really ask the why.
• 39:14
  Chris Lambert: Why do we have those processes in place?
• 39:16
  Chris Lambert: It's really to meet a guest need, to meet a team need, and meet an investor need or, or a business need.
• 39:22
  Chris Lambert: So, you know, it's really encouraging our, our teams at all different levels, um, to really think through that mindset of let's build connections with people.
• 39:30
  Chris Lambert: People can understand when you're just hiding behind a policy or hiding behind a procedure, but they also can understand when you're really genuinely trying to be of service, which is what hospitality is built on.
• 39:40
  Chris Lambert: So, you know, that, that's one thing.
• 39:43
  Chris Lambert: Um, I think another thing is personalization, and I think that was...
• 39:47
  Chris Lambert: We've heard that a couple times today, um, throughout, and I think there's a bigger need, demand for personalization.
• 39:54
  Chris Lambert: We can't just expect people, um, to come in and, "Yep, got the amenities I need, got the price I want, and, and business transaction settled," right?
• 40:02
  Chris Lambert: So, um, so I think those two principles are kind of at a high level what we, we try to, um, to instill and enforce.
• 40:10
  Chris Lambert: Um, and then always with, with just, again, always learning, always teaching.
• 40:15
  Chris Lambert: It, it doesn't matter how long, I was in restaurants longer than I want to share.
• 40:18
  Chris Lambert: Um, but, you know, it- it's all about learning more things.
• 40:22
  Chris Lambert: You can always learn every day and grow, and, and I think that's what, um, you know, if, if, if you have that in your team and that grit, um, and do the right thing and thinking about through the
• 40:31
  Chris Lambert: guest.
• 40:31
  Chris Lambert: And it's not just writing blank checks.
• 40:33
  Chris Lambert: There's got to be a business component.
• 40:34
  Chris Lambert: There's got to be a team dynamic of what we can, uh, achieve and not achieve.
• 40:38
  Chris Lambert: But, but I think it, it starts with people.
• 40:42
  Kaleigh Day: Um, yeah, I...
• 40:43
  Kaleigh Day: What I was gonna say earlier, and touching back on, like, what, um, a lot of people are saying, I'm kind of surprised with, like, bringing it back to, like, the customer experience and stuff, even just follow-up emails and
• 40:55
  Kaleigh Day: asking your guests what, if they have any recommendations for the campgrounds.
• 41:00
  Kaleigh Day: Um, we started doing that a while back, and the ideas and, like, some of them are such simple, easy fixes, and it's enabled us to really, like, our campers, like, just little things, right?
• 41:12
  Kaleigh Day: It's like a, like, uh, put a dishwashing sink here in this section too or, like, you know, whatever, like, small asks on our part that we can do that really just makes it...
• 41:22
  Kaleigh Day: And then they come back for another stay.
• 41:24
  Kaleigh Day: They see we've, like, heard their, you know, listened to their input, and then we, like, um, implemented it, so things like that.
• 41:32
  Kaleigh Day: And I'm kind of shocked also talking to other owners and people that, um, like, run other campgrounds and how they, the follow-up, follow-up emails and questions, and having your staff at checkout, you know, go through, "Oh, did you
• 41:44
  Kaleigh Day: have a good stay?
• 41:45
  Kaleigh Day: Do you have any recommendations for us?"
• 41:46
  Kaleigh Day: Like, we have all of our staff asking that, just that simple question, and people will, like, beam.
• 41:52
  Kaleigh Day: Or if they were not satisfied with something, it gives you the opportunity to hear it, refund them if, like, you have that ability to or whatever or make it right, you know?
• 42:02
  Kaleigh Day: And, um, even just those questions I find go so far, um, for, you know, happy campers.
• 42:10
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, people just wanna be heard a lot of the time, and that's how they, they end up at your Google review when they aren't heard.
• 42:16
  Brian Searl: When they send an email that doesn't get answered, or they, they pick up the phone and call and nobody listens, or they can't reach the manager or whatever else.
• 42:22
  Brian Searl: So that's a, yeah, a great thing.
• 42:24
  Tom Mason: Um, one, one other thing.
• 42:26
  Tom Mason: I, Kaleigh, I think you're right.
• 42:27
  Tom Mason: I mean, it's basic blocking and tackling techniques that work well.
• 42:32
  Tom Mason: Um, the having someone...
• 42:36
  Tom Mason: We're trying to, uh, work at many of our parks with knowledge of the area.
• 42:41
  Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm.
• 42:42
  Tom Mason: Uh, people are coming there from other parts of the, you know, further away, so we wanna be knowledgeable of what's going on in the market around us and make those suggestions to them at the front desk or while,
• 42:54
  Tom Mason: you know, while we're walking around the park.
• 42:57
  Tom Mason: We- we're tr- we're- we've focused on that and have gotten good results and good feedback from people about having kind of carnal knowledge of what, what events are going on in the market and around us, and they've taken
• 43:09
  Tom Mason: advantage of that and enjoyed themselves.
• 43:12
  Scott Foos: Mm-hmm.
• 43:13
  Scott Foos: One thing to, to add to that, Tom, that we've, uh, we've experimented at with one property so far this season and hope to roll it out further is hosting these planning sessions together over coffee, uh, on Saturday morning
• 43:29
  Scott Foos: or over, uh, often over a happy hour wine bar, um, Fri- Friday afternoon, Thursday afternoon as well.
• 43:37
  Scott Foos: But we have our general manager sit down at a large table with guests and we talk abou- they talk about things to do in the area.
• 43:46
  Scott Foos: And not only is it just then the, the manager sharing local knowledge or the staff sharing local knowledge, but then you're building some community with the different guests and they're sharing ideas too between themselves.
• 44:00
  Scott Foos: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Scott Foos: Um, uh, it's not just one for one, it's, i-i-it's, it's this, it's this group kind of discussion.
• 44:07
  Scott Foos: Um, so yeah, I, I think, I, I think that being able to, to really double down on, uh, you know, Chris, you, you brought this up, you know, the, the, um, the individual brand and, and, and knowledge of
• 44:21
  Scott Foos: the pro- or ex- excuse me, local experience of the property and what makes it unique is, is so critical.
• 44:27
  Scott Foos: And, um, you know, I think that as we look back, Brian, I think back to what your comment was about how the industry's continued to evolve, I think it's really worth noting and remembering that this industry is a
• 44:44
  Scott Foos: lot of things to a lot of different people.
• 44:46
  Scott Foos: It's so varied.
• 44:48
  Scott Foos: It's institutional, it's mom and pop, it's RV, it's transient, extended stay, seasonal, and even those have various different categories.
• 44:57
  Scott Foos: And then there's the lodging and glamping component.
• 45:00
  Scott Foos: Um, you know, it's, it's really difficult to make, I think, high level, um, uh, uh- topics or discussion points, I guess, or, or edicts maybe, um, around this industry when it is so nuanced and it does impact so
• 45:16
  Scott Foos: many people.
• 45:17
  Scott Foos: But I think remembering that these properties often are enough in themselves if you are creating that culture and creating that experience and playing into what makes that property unique, um, is, is, is really important and, and, and beneficial.
• 45:35
  Scott Foos: And then last thing along this line that I, I wanted to, to talk about was, um, you know, as you look at as a, as an investor or someone that's bought into this industry in the last five years
• 45:47
  Scott Foos: And you're looking at, at how you can grow your revenue if your rental revenue base isn't hitting the thesis, um, that, that you'd expected.
• 45:57
  Scott Foos: Um, you know, we've, we've had success in not having top-down or initiatives that look good on paper, new amenities, new programming offerings that look good on paper that are generated by our team.
• 46:11
  Scott Foos: We're having more luck talking to the managers at the properties and saying, you know, "What is it that What are the friction points we're trying to solve for, and how do we solve for friction points in the guest
• 46:23
  Scott Foos: experience that can then translate into its own specific business case, its own ancillary revenue stream, its own P&L?"
• 46:32
  Scott Foos: Uh, an example of that is, um, at a property in Colorado it's, that we manage, it's very remote and, um, there, there's really no place for people to get a drink in the evening or to have, uh, food.
• 46:46
  Scott Foos: Um, there's no food offering and it's too small to offer a food and beverage service.
• 46:50
  Scott Foos: It wouldn't make sense.
• 46:52
  Scott Foos: Um, but we've solved that by, uh, opening Color- what we call Colorado's smallest bar.
• 46:59
  Scott Foos: Um, and, uh, I don't know if I'm proud of that, but I, it's, it's kinda cool to say.
• 47:04
  Scott Foos: Um, and, uh, you know, we, we have that open every night of the week, and then we also partnered with a, um, a, a really high-end, um, ran- rancher and meat operation, um, in, in the local area that
• 47:18
  Scott Foos: has developed custom kits that now we can offer.
• 47:21
  Scott Foos: So ne- neither of those things are new, that's not the point, but it's solving a specific need that's then allowing guests to book that extra night because they know that they can solve for food and beverage without, without,
• 47:34
  Scott Foos: uh, burdening the operation.
• 47:37
  Scott Foos: Um, and it's also driving additional ancillary revenue too.
• 47:40
  Brian Searl: But see, I think that all goes back to nuance, right?
• 47:43
  Scott Foos: Yep.
• 47:43
  Scott Foos: Exactly.
• 47:43
  Brian Searl: Like it all goes back to what you were saying, is like I, I think we have some nuance in this industry, like you're, you're right.
• 47:48
  Brian Searl: But I also think there's a lot Well, there's 1000X opportunity to have more nuance.
• 47:52
  Brian Searl: I think we should get more fragmented and more guest experience focused on that nuance, like you're talking about the smallest bar or the other little things you're doing at those properties.
• 48:01
  Brian Searl: Because then I think you can take to Jane's example, then I can think you could take a 10,000 d- a $10,000 a year site that you had to pay $100,000 a year, a year to build, and you figure
• 48:09
  Brian Searl: out how to charge 15 or $20,000, or get, or get 15, $20,000 a year for that, and then your payout, your payout is lower Instead of just building a typical RV site.
• 48:19
  Scott Foos: Yeah.
• 48:20
  Scott Foos: No, that's, that's absolutely right.
• 48:22
  Scott Foos: And there's always g- I mean, there is a case for, um, you know, I, I, I think, a- absolutely, and there's a case for standard- standardization and, you know, big brands to be in this space, and they do,
• 48:34
  Scott Foos: you know, some, you know, some of those brand- I mean, all the brands, the big brands, big franchisers do a great job in this space.
• 48:40
  Scott Foos: Um, but you know, you look to, like, the Jellystone model as, as an example, um, and Jayne, you know, you know that world better than me.
• 48:48
  Scott Foos: Um, you know, there, there is room still to not have to be so niche to the, to be able to help drive additional ancillary revenues by, by still creating the experience though.
• 49:00
  Scott Foos: It's not just slapping a brand on and calling it, um, you know, calling it this property and expecting revenue to come.
• 49:06
  Scott Foos: It's still dou- It's, it's even more of an edict to double down on guest experience.
• 49:11
  Scott Foos: But, you know, there, there are ways to do that at a, I guess, at a higher level or a standardized level that doesn't have to be so niche too.
• 49:18
  Scott Foos: So I think both, both ends can still work.
• 49:21
  Zach Stoltenberg: I think you brought up a really good point there, Scott, too, that I think a lot of operators look at some of those challenges, right, of solving for FnB or amenities or experiences, and they say, "You know, we
• 49:35
  Zach Stoltenberg: know we want to deliver a better guest experience, but how do we do that without investing a ton of capital?
• 49:42
  Zach Stoltenberg: How do we do that without hiring somebody else?"
• 49:44
  Zach Stoltenberg: And, you know, that approach of, of partnering with somebody else, some other local operator, like, you know, feed your guests to them.
• 49:54
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, they're already doing that.
• 49:56
  Zach Stoltenberg: And, you know, take a, take a 10% finder's fee.
• 50:00
  Zach Stoltenberg: Take a booking fee.
• 50:01
  Zach Stoltenberg: Take...
• 50:01
  Zach Stoltenberg: You know, there are ways that you can improve guest experience through those partnerships, and I've, we, we preach that a lot.
• 50:10
  Zach Stoltenberg: We talk with people a lot, especially when we go out to evaluate a site.
• 50:13
  Zach Stoltenberg: Part of the reason we always do a site visit is just that.
• 50:16
  Zach Stoltenberg: We're looking at not just the property, but what is in the area.
• 50:19
  Zach Stoltenberg: You know, if, if from that campground it's a 30-minute drive to the nearest Dollar General, then w- we need some onsite FnB.
• 50:27
  Zach Stoltenberg: We need a little store, a camp store.
• 50:28
  Zach Stoltenberg: We need to keep some, you know, sundries, some, just the basics, right, like eggs, milk, bread.
• 50:34
  Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, we don't need a full grocery bu- but we need to have some stuff there on site because if we ignore that, if we don't do it, now that becomes detrimental to that guest experience.
• 50:44
  Zach Stoltenberg: So- Mm-hmm I think that's, that's a really good approach, and I think a lot of operators miss that, that you don't have to do everything.
• 50:51
  Zach Stoltenberg: Just partner with somebody who's in your area that's already doing it.
• 50:55
  Brian Searl: All right, let's spend the last...
• 50:58
  Brian Searl: Go ahead, sorry.
• 51:00
  Brian Searl: Please.
• 51:00
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, no.
• 51:00
  Kaleigh Day: You go for it.
• 51:01
  Brian Searl: No, I...
• 51:02
  Brian Searl: Say your comment and then we're gonna end there.
• 51:03
  Brian Searl: No problem.
• 51:04
  Brian Searl: We're just gonna, uh, spend the last few minutes just to having everybody else ask questions to the other guests instead of me being out.
• 51:08
  Brian Searl: So go ahead, please.
• 51:09
  Brian Searl: And then-
• 51:09
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, yeah.
• 51:09
  Kaleigh Day: I was gonna say, yeah, like things like, um, like food trucks or bike rentals are really successful at the other campgrounds in the area.
• 51:16
  Kaleigh Day: Um, like I know some people source out their...
• 51:19
  Kaleigh Day: For where we are, surf lessons and surf rentals, we do our own.
• 51:22
  Kaleigh Day: Um, but I know they also, um, contract out or, um, whatever with other companies, local companies.
• 51:29
  Kaleigh Day: So it's a great...
• 51:31
  Kaleigh Day: It keeps campers happy.
• 51:32
  Kaleigh Day: You're not worrying, you don't have to worry about staffing it, dealing with it, 'cause, you know, especially out where we are.
• 51:38
  Kaleigh Day: Um, yeah, that's just my little comment.
• 51:39
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 51:39
  Brian Searl: Well, let's start with you Kaleigh, since we're ending already.
• 51:44
  Brian Searl: So we typically end the show, we'll spend the last few minutes just with everybody asking each other questions.
• 51:47
  Brian Searl: So Kaleigh, do you have any questions for any of our other guests?
• 51:50
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, gosh.
• 51:51
  Brian Searl: Any questions for them?
• 51:52
  Kaleigh Day: Just putting me on the spot, hey?
• 51:53
  Kaleigh Day: Um-
• 51:54
  Brian Searl: Anything you wanna know.
• 51:55
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 51:55
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, does any of you guys that are running or like overseeing multiple campgrounds, do you...
• 52:00
  Kaleigh Day: Are they all RV parks or do you guys have like a blend of some tent camping or, um...
• 52:07
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah, does anyone else deal with tent campers?
• 52:11
  Tom Mason: Yeah.
• 52:11
  Tom Mason: Well, well it's kind of a mix, Kaleigh, for our portfolio.
• 52:14
  Tom Mason: We have tent sites at many of our parks, but not all.
• 52:18
  Tom Mason: We have accommodations at many of our parks, but not all.
• 52:21
  Tom Mason: All of our campground, all of our parks that we manage have RV sites.
• 52:26
  Tom Mason: Yeah.
• 52:27
  Tom Mason: So I think that's...
• 52:29
  Scott Foos: And I'm similar to, to Tom, uh, but we do have a property that is exclusively glamping, uh, lodging only.
• 52:38
  Scott Foos: Um, and then another that's, uh, almost exclusively glamping and, and lodging.
• 52:44
  Chris Lambert: Yeah, Kaleigh, same.
• 52:45
  Chris Lambert: We have kind of a, a mix of parks that have multiple different ways to stay.
• 52:50
  Chris Lambert: Um, but uh, our, our best performing park is one outside of Glacier and there's a, I mean, a tent...
• 52:56
  Chris Lambert: I, I can book the, the, a site there, uh, whenever I want to.
• 53:00
  Chris Lambert: So, um-
• 53:01
  Kaleigh Day: I would love to-
• 53:01
  Chris Lambert: That's always soft to my heart.
• 53:03
  Chris Lambert: I'm a backpacker by trade.
• 53:04
  Chris Lambert: I'm a minimalist.
• 53:05
  Chris Lambert: Yeah.
• 53:05
  Chris Lambert: So, uh, you know, have a, have a respect for the tent campers for sure.
• 53:09
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Brian Searl: All right, Chris, do you have a question for any of our other guests?
• 53:13
  Zach Stoltenberg: You know, in our business it's probably about, I used to say a 60/40 split.
• 53:17
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, I mean, obviously we help people reposition existing assets or, or do new ground up.
• 53:23
  Zach Stoltenberg: On the RV side, there has not been a lot of new ground up, um, just because of all those challenges and the financing model is, is very difficult to get those projects, uh, funded right now.
• 53:34
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, but I'd, I'd say we're, we're seeing a, a big pivot on those existing assets repositioning.
• 53:41
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, but probably 60% of what we do is, is glamping and boutique hotels, and that seems to be staying very, very strong.
• 53:49
  Zach Stoltenberg: We're, we're still very busy in those markets
• 53:53
  Brian Searl: Chris, do you have a question for one of the guests?
• 53:55
  Chris Lambert: Um, yeah, I, I, I think, you know, kind of going back to just customer service across a diverse portfolio, more of me asking for help, but not that we need it, but just for those that have been in
• 54:07
  Chris Lambert: the industry long term, I mean, this, it's been a big shift as I can imagine as I've talked to Scott and others.
• 54:12
  Chris Lambert: Um, what is your approach to, to make sure that we're applying level standardization but also flexibility into that, that framework?
• 54:19
  Chris Lambert: 'Cause I think that's the hardest solve, right?
• 54:22
  Chris Lambert: Is when, when to build connection versus going through the checklist.
• 54:29
  Brian Searl: Directed to anybody specific or you just naming them?
• 54:31
  Chris Lambert: Uh, Jayne or Scott or
• 54:35
  Jayne Cohen: So I think- Uh,
• 54:36
  Scott Foos: well, I-- Go ahead, Jayne.
• 54:37
  Jayne Cohen: Oh, go ahead, Scott.
• 54:38
  Jayne Cohen: No, go ahead.
• 54:39
  Scott Foos: No, no, please.
• 54:41
  Scott Foos: Uh- I
• 54:41
  Jayne Cohen: I think- I,
• 54:41
  Scott Foos: I was just gonna, uh, just hi- high, very high level.
• 54:45
  Scott Foos: We, we, um, we, we have a, a s- a standard operating playbook with parameters that we ask our, our, our team members to, to stay within, but part of that is also in training them in how to be
• 55:01
  Scott Foos: flexible and how to meet the guest where they are in those, in those difficult situations.
• 55:07
  Scott Foos: Um, or if they need to go above and beyond or want to go above and beyond for a guest, what does that budget look like for, for those surprises, delights as well?
• 55:16
  Scott Foos: Um, so it's not-- I mean, you-- I think you know that, uh, j- you know, better than anybody, I think, from the restaurant world, too.
• 55:23
  Scott Foos: I mean, it's not a science.
• 55:25
  Scott Foos: Uh, it's definitely an art, and it can be hard at scale.
• 55:30
  Brian Searl: Jayne?
• 55:33
  Jayne Cohen: Um, I f- I feel like the campground industry business is never gonna be like we make a widget business, right?
• 55:42
  Jayne Cohen: It's, it's really difficult to standardize.
• 55:46
  Jayne Cohen: I know when I had, like, 13 of my own parks, there are certain things that I did standardize, like my reservation policies or my cancellation policies.
• 55:58
  Jayne Cohen: So there were certain things that were easy to do, and they a- it actually helped to do it because then I had the same policies at all the parks, right?
• 56:08
  Jayne Cohen: Um, but there's other things that were just very specific to that property, and I always felt like it's all about the staff and, and either enabling the staff to interpret your goals, right, and your, your SOPs or your
• 56:30
  Jayne Cohen: roles, or you disable them, right?
• 56:33
  Jayne Cohen: And, um, I always felt like there's really nothing that any of them could do that would really hurt us.
• 56:42
  Jayne Cohen: So in other words, if someone gave money back when, you know, the cancellation policy was clear they shouldn't have given money back, okay, who cares?
• 56:51
  Jayne Cohen: It's not gonna, it's not gonna kill us.
• 56:53
  Jayne Cohen: Uh, if it's some- if, if it was something that was correctable, I took that person aside, corrected, you know, or had the manager correct them, right?
• 57:01
  Jayne Cohen: But I tried to always have a philosophy throughout the parks that, yeah, these are our standards, these are our guidelines, but you know what?
• 57:11
  Jayne Cohen: You guys gotta add some common sense in what's happening right there, right then, now, and think.
• 57:17
  Jayne Cohen: Use your brain, 'cause that's why I hired you, and make a decision.
• 57:21
  Jayne Cohen: And so again, it was about enabling them because, you know, you're asking...
• 57:28
  Jayne Cohen: Uh, I remember so many times people asked me, "How, how do you find campground help?"
• 57:34
  Jayne Cohen: And I looked into, like, people who had restaurant experience because they were m- easier and more common, frankly, than people with campground experience, right?
• 57:46
  Jayne Cohen: But people in restaurant experience, they deal with a lot of the same things, and they deal with a lot of the long hours, and the weekends, and the nights, and that type of stuff, so they, they're used to
• 57:57
  Jayne Cohen: that.
• 57:58
  Jayne Cohen: So I, I, I think coming from the restaurant business is a, is very, the experience is very applicable to a campground, running a campground, especially from the guest services perspective
• 58:14
  Tom Mason: Yeah.
• 58:14
  Tom Mason: On our, on our side, Chris, um, there are policies and procedures, all that kind of, you know, word speak, more on the accounting side.
• 58:24
  Tom Mason: We wanna make sure we're doing the accounting properly through all our parks, um, especially for ownership groups that have multiple parks.
• 58:33
  Tom Mason: We wanna be reporting in the same fashion at all our parks for their groups, things like that.
• 58:38
  Tom Mason: But on the, on the customer service side, it's really, you know, to Jayne and Scott's point, it's empowerment.
• 58:44
  Tom Mason: We're not there.
• 58:46
  Tom Mason: We, you know, Ja-
• 58:50
  Brian Searl: Oh, did we lose Tom?
• 58:52
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, no.
• 58:52
  Jayne Cohen: Hmm.
• 58:54
  Brian Searl: Maybe we lost Tom.
• 58:55
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 58:55
  Brian Searl: Um, Scott, you haven't been here in a while.
• 58:57
  Brian Searl: Ask- oh, he's back.
• 58:57
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 58:58
  Brian Searl: Never mind.
• 58:59
  Brian Searl: Go ahead, Tom.
• 59:00
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 59:00
  Brian Searl: You cut out for a minute.
• 59:01
  Tom Mason: No, uh, just that we pay you to make decisions, and you're right there, so...
• 59:05
  Tom Mason: And to Jayne's point, they really can't do too much damage to whatever they give away, so...
• 59:11
  Brian Searl: Scott, I was gonna say, do you have a, do you have a question next for anybody?
• 59:14
  Scott Foos: I, I think if, if I can direct it at, at one individual person, just because I have not heard the story, and not to put you on the spot, Kaleigh, how did you get into the business?
• 59:24
  Scott Foos: How, how did you, how did you land here?
• 59:27
  Kaleigh Day: Oh, yeah.
• 59:27
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, we were honeymooning on Vancouver Island, and, uh, we happened to go and stay at Surf Junction Campground, and we found out it was for sale, and this was in 2011, so it was right before...
• 59:41
  Kaleigh Day: The area had been starting to get really busy, 'cause Tofin- I don't know if you guys have heard of Tofino-
• 59:46
  Scott Foos: Mm-hmm.
• 59:47
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah as, like, a destination place.
• 59:49
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, so we stayed at the campground, and we saw the little, "Uh, calm that you can live there," and we're like, "Whoa, this is, like, nice," you know?
• 59:56
  Kaleigh Day: But it was...
• 59:57
  Kaleigh Day: You know, we were young.
• 59:58
  Kaleigh Day: And, um, anyways, we, uh, decided to go for it, so we bought it, and then we've since repurchased the land behind.
• 1:00:05
  Kaleigh Day: We've expanded, added amenities, and we've, you know, and then here we are, like, 14 years later.
• 1:00:12
  Scott Foos: Awesome.
• 1:00:13
  Kaleigh Day: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  Scott Foos: That's awesome.
• 1:00:14
  Scott Foos: Thank you.
• 1:00:14
  Brian Searl: Zach, do you have any questions?
• 1:00:20
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um.
• 1:00:25
  Zach Stoltenberg: Let me think about it.
• 1:00:28
  Zach Stoltenberg: I know we're trying to wrap up.
• 1:00:30
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um-
• 1:00:31
  Brian Searl: Tom, you go, and then Zach we’ll come back to you.
• 1:00:33
  Brian Searl: And then if anybody needs to drop off, I know we're a minute or two late, so please feel free to drop off and go to other commitments.
• 1:00:37
  Tom Mason: Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  Tom Mason: I, I'll ask Jayne a question.
• 1:00:39
  Tom Mason: What's your, uh...
• 1:00:40
  Tom Mason: What do you see going forward on the development side?
• 1:00:43
  Tom Mason: How's, how's your pipeline?
• 1:00:44
  Tom Mason: Not to give away trade secrets, but what, how's the activity there?
• 1:00:51
  Jayne Cohen: Um, development is really tough, right?
• 1:00:54
  Jayne Cohen: Right now development is tough.
• 1:00:57
  Jayne Cohen: Um, I have just recently saw our feasibility studies slow down.
• 1:01:04
  Jayne Cohen: Um, but, but going, uh, and I mean, like, recently, like the past, like, couple of weeks, we've been really busy still with folks wanting to do feasibility studies and wanting, uh, to study it.
• 1:01:19
  Jayne Cohen: But, but development is just super tough.
• 1:01:23
  Jayne Cohen: When folks come to me and wanna develop their first campground, uh, one of the first questions I ask them, Tom, is, "Have you considered an acquisition?"
• 1:01:33
  Jayne Cohen: Because, you know, you got...
• 1:01:37
  Jayne Cohen: I always say, and I don't even know if it's politically correct anymore, but I always say, "Development is not for sissies."
• 1:01:43
  Jayne Cohen: I mean, there is just one hurdle, one challenge after the other.
• 1:01:49
  Jayne Cohen: It doesn't end, and, um, getting to that finish line is tough.
• 1:01:55
  Jayne Cohen: And when you do get to that finish line, you don't have any customers.
• 1:01:58
  Jayne Cohen: You don't have a cash flow.
• 1:02:00
  Jayne Cohen: So an acquisition is a little bit easier, and I always sa- say to the new developer, I say, "Maybe try an acquisition first, and, uh, work on a development next."
• 1:02:13
  Jayne Cohen: But I think development is, I don't think it's dead, but I, I only f- I think it's very slow, and it's only for some people.
• 1:02:23
  Tom Mason: Okay.
• 1:02:24
  Tom Mason: Thanks.
• 1:02:25
  Jayne Cohen: What do you think?
• 1:02:27
  Tom Mason: Oh, well, yeah.
• 1:02:28
  Tom Mason: I, that sounds about what I would have expected.
• 1:02:31
  Tom Mason: I have to jump off, Brian.
• 1:02:32
  Tom Mason: I got a call waiting.
• 1:02:34
  Brian Searl: All right, Tom- So
• 1:02:34
  Tom Mason: thank you
• 1:02:35
  Brian Searl: before you go real quick-
• 1:02:35
  Tom Mason: I'll see you next one
• 1:02:36
  Brian Searl: tell them where they can, tell them where they can find out more about IVEE Group before you go.
• 1:02:40
  Tom Mason: I will.
• 1:02:40
  Tom Mason: Thank you.
• 1:02:42
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 1:02:42
  Brian Searl: Don't do that then.
• 1:02:43
  Brian Searl: All right, I was gonna say, give out your website if you want.
• 1:02:47
  Tom Mason: Oh, uh, ivee.com.
• 1:02:49
  Tom Mason: So-
• 1:02:49
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 1:02:50
  Brian Searl: Perfect.
• 1:02:50
  Brian Searl: Thanks, Tom.
• 1:02:51
  Tom Mason: Thank you.
• 1:02:51
  Brian Searl: I appreciate it.
• 1:02:52
  Brian Searl: Zach, do you have a one final question for us?
• 1:02:55
  Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, this may be for Chris and for Scott.
• 1:02:57
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, so recently, uh, we bid working on a project, and this would be our third project within about a, I'm gonna say a 20-mile radius of one location.
• 1:03:15
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, w- what are your thoughts on, like, market saturation?
• 1:03:21
  Zach Stoltenberg: I mean, obviously there's, you know, some parts of the country that do better and, uh, you know, if you'd asked me three years ago, I would've said, "Yeah, the rising tide gathers all ships.
• 1:03:29
  Zach Stoltenberg: The more we have in an area, the better they all do."
• 1:03:32
  Zach Stoltenberg: Um, w- what are your thoughts today on, like, that market saturation?
• 1:03:38
  Zach Stoltenberg: Like, how, how many campgrounds, resorts can one area support, and, and what are, what are some of the challenges that come up on the management side when you have like two, three parks that are all in the same
• 1:03:52
  Zach Stoltenberg: market?
• 1:03:54
  Scott Foos: Chris, you wanna take that?
• 1:03:57
  Chris Lambert: Yeah, I can.
• 1:03:57
  Chris Lambert: I mean, we have some, some experience in that.
• 1:03:59
  Chris Lambert: I, I think it goes back to...
• 1:04:01
  Chris Lambert: and I know this is a softball answer, but you have to understand what the target guest is.
• 1:04:06
  Chris Lambert: 'Cause what...
• 1:04:07
  Chris Lambert: You know, if you have two guests or, or two parks that are very similar, like highly transient particular, but if, if they're pretty much the same park, well, then you might be cannibalizing sales, right?
• 1:04:16
  Chris Lambert: But if you have- Right where we've found some success is where we have maybe a, a more transient park and then one m- more extended stay that would kind of, you know...
• 1:04:24
  Chris Lambert: Or, or different seasons or different amenities, um, with different price points.
• 1:04:29
  Chris Lambert: So, I, you know, what I would just say what...
• 1:04:32
  Chris Lambert: 'Cause we've, we've passed on a few where it was like, "Okay, this is very similar to our park that's 50 miles away, and we're, we're gonna be, um, tugging at both ends of the string there," so.
• 1:04:43
  Scott Foos: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:44
  Scott Foos: Yeah.
• 1:04:44
  Scott Foos: I would, I would, I would echo, uh, what, what Chris said.
• 1:04:48
  Scott Foos: And then I think, um, you know, looking, uh, you know, Chris, as, as you guys are acquiring properties, you know, I think people are looking to develop properties, too.
• 1:04:58
  Scott Foos: Um, Zach, to your, I think maybe to your point about the feasibility side.
• 1:05:02
  Scott Foos: Um, you know, I, I, I think you, you can't ignore the national trends.
• 1:05:06
  Scott Foos: And you can't, you can't look and s- and say that demand overall is, is, uh, trend the transient side is, is weakening.
• 1:05:16
  Scott Foos: And there's also, you know, multiple new developments happening.
• 1:05:20
  Scott Foos: How unique and differentiated can each one be?
• 1:05:23
  Scott Foos: Even on the glamping side, on, on a lodging side.
• 1:05:26
  Scott Foos: Um, you know, of course the unit mix and on- the onsite experience will be different, but you're still drawing to the, to the same area.
• 1:05:34
  Scott Foos: And so I, I think oversaturation in, in many markets, uh, is, is a, is a top concern that, that people should be thinking about and should've been thinking about maybe for the last few years.
• 1:05:46
  Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm.
• 1:05:46
  Chris Lambert: Yeah.
• 1:05:47
  Chris Lambert: And one last thing.
• 1:05:48
  Jayne Cohen: You know what's an exam- Whoops.
• 1:05:50
  Jayne Cohen: Go ahead,
• 1:05:50
  Chris Lambert: Chris.
• 1:05:50
  Chris Lambert: I gotta finish one thought.
• 1:05:51
  Chris Lambert: Um, there is some efficiencies of scale.
• 1:05:54
  Chris Lambert: Um, so we've seen success-
• 1:05:55
  Scott Foos: Sure.
• 1:05:55
  Scott Foos: Yeah
• 1:05:55
  Chris Lambert: of having shared staff, which is, you know, one of your biggest fixed cost business and a high fixed cost, uh, industry.
• 1:06:01
  Chris Lambert: So, you know, that is one thing to consider.
• 1:06:04
  Chris Lambert: But, um, but yeah, I was just gonna make that mention of, of there's, there's some shared services that you could do.
• 1:06:09
  Chris Lambert: And, and, and Scott's exactly right.
• 1:06:11
  Chris Lambert: There could be, you know, whether it's a data center, the area that moved in, and you have two parks right there, and you're gonna...
• 1:06:16
  Chris Lambert: That's not gonna be as, uh...
• 1:06:17
  Chris Lambert: It's gonna be more insulated than what the, the, the macro level demand may be across, across the United States.
• 1:06:23
  Chris Lambert: Sorry, Jayne.
• 1:06:26
  Jayne Cohen: No, I was just gonna say, like, you know, a lot of people made this mistake in Houston, right?
• 1:06:31
  Jayne Cohen: Houston, Texas.
• 1:06:32
  Scott Foos: That's the best market example.
• 1:06:34
  Jayne Cohen: Um, it's the best.
• 1:06:35
  Jayne Cohen: I mean, that's a...
• 1:06:36
  Jayne Cohen: That, right?
• 1:06:37
  Scott Foos: Yep.
• 1:06:37
  Jayne Cohen: That's a saturation, right?
• 1:06:39
  Jayne Cohen: There's this huge market, right?
• 1:06:42
  Jayne Cohen: Huge number of people, campers, people with or without, and all these parks came into the market, and then they all battled it out and, and many of them are having a, are still having a very tough time.
• 1:06:56
  Jayne Cohen: And people are like, "But it's Houston."
• 1:07:00
  Jayne Cohen: Well, yeah, it is Houston, but it's...
• 1:07:04
  Jayne Cohen: So I think that's just a cautionary tale, frankly, right?
• 1:07:09
  Jayne Cohen: That it's really important to, to look at, you know, how many people are in the market, but who is, who is chewing up that market, and what is there?
• 1:07:24
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:07:24
  Brian Searl: Well, thank you, guys, for another good show.
• 1:07:25
  Brian Searl: Let's wrap it up.
• 1:07:26
  Brian Searl: A final thought, Zach, and then we're gonna learn more about what you got going on.
• 1:07:31
  Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Insta, all the typical socials, um, or you can check us out at lja.com.
• 1:07:41
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Zach.
• 1:07:42
  Brian Searl: Scott, final thoughts and where can they learn more about Horizon?
• 1:07:46
  Scott Foos: Yeah, um, well, uh, at risk of running over I'll just share, or even more, I'll share, uh, just contact information for, for now.
• 1:07:54
  Scott Foos: But, um, you can find me on, sometimes find me on LinkedIn, um, always find us at horizonoutdoors.com.
• 1:08:02
  Brian Searl: Chris, where can they learn more about Streamside, and if you have any final thoughts?
• 1:08:05
  Chris Lambert: Sure.
• 1:08:05
  Chris Lambert: Well, I just appreciate the, the invite to the podcast.
• 1:08:08
  Chris Lambert: I've really learned a lot and, and happy to be more, uh, of a discussion.
• 1:08:11
  Chris Lambert: Um, streamsideparks.com, also steadystays, um, .com is some of our more extended stay g- uh, park properties that we have.
• 1:08:19
  Chris Lambert: Uh, you can find us on social as well.
• 1:08:22
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Chris.
• 1:08:23
  Brian Searl: Kaleigh?
• 1:08:24
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, yeah, you can see me in person at Surf Junction Campground.
• 1:08:28
  Kaleigh Day: Uh, but also our website is surfjunction.com.
• 1:08:33
  Brian Searl: Jayne.
• 1:08:34
  Brian Searl: Final thoughts, and where can they please learn more about, uh, Cairn Consulting Group?
• 1:08:43
  Jayne Cohen: Uh, campgroundconsultinggroup.com.
• 1:08:44
  Jayne Cohen: I'm not, uh, I don't really answer my LinkedIn or anything like that, but either get me that at, at, uh, at the website or my cell, 603-455-1884.
• 1:08:56
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:08:57
  Brian Searl: Well thank you everybody for being here today.
• 1:08:58
  Brian Searl: Uh, join us next week for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 1:09:01
  Brian Searl: I appreciate you watching it.
• 1:09:02
  Brian Searl: Uh, we don't have Outwired today.
• 1:09:03
  Brian Searl: Scott and I are taking the week off, so take care guys.
• 1:09:05
  Brian Searl: See you later, and we'll appreciate y'all being here.
• 1:09:07
  Scott Foos: Thanks Brian.
• 1:09:08
  Scott Foos: Thanks everybody.