Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #92: The Lord's Prayer: Who is this Father to Whom We Pray?

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#92: The Lord's Prayer: Who is this Father to Whom We Pray? · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friends,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Tim Wright here,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: along with John Burgess and Terry Summers,
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: the Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: And today we are doing a deep dive...
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're starting a deep dive into the Lord's Prayer.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: We actually sort of teased this out in our last episode.
• 0:32
  Today,
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  we're going to look at the first part of the prayer,
• 0:35
  the Father to whom we pray.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: What is this Father like?
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  And before we kind of dive in off air,
• 0:41
  I learned something very interesting.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: John's got some friends who are listening,
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: and they listen only because Terry Summers is a famous actress.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So John and I are just kind of like, you know, like, why are you here?
• 0:59
  Yeah,
• 1:00
  we're happy and happy to be just happy,
• 1:03
  grateful to be along for the ride.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: So here's what we're going to do.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Terry, take away.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's your podcast.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: We're just going to sit back now and watch your magic.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: And all our listeners are like, finally.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: The thing you've been praying for all along has happened.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: See, prayer does work.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Your prayers have come to fruition this day.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28
  You guys need to be there when I'm checking out at Trader Joe's
• 1:31
  because the grumpy
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: one that's there just doesn't.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say, do you know, have you heard the podcast?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Have you heard who I am?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because really, it's only said here.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's make that clear.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm laughing with the guffaw that I have.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: And on our clever merch.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Someday we'll get some merch.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Once we get up to over 10 listeners, we'll get some merch.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: How's that?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: The three of us don't count.
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  SPEAKER_02: So today we're going to dive into the Lord's Prayer.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I said last week that in many ways,
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  SPEAKER_02: the Lord's Prayer is really a picture of the character of God.
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  because this is a prayer that is based on God's character and
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  how it is that God
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  SPEAKER_02: works in our lives.
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  And we're going to start today by looking just at the very
• 2:31
  first part of the prayer.
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  SPEAKER_02: And as we do that,
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  SPEAKER_02: I want you to just sort of think in your mind,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: when you hear the word Father,
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  SPEAKER_02: when you hear the word Father,
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  SPEAKER_02: what comes to mind for you?
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  SPEAKER_02: And we're going to talk about how sometimes...
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: metaphors for God,
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  SPEAKER_02: titles for God can be a little tricky,
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  SPEAKER_02: but that Jesus is trying to say something really,
• 2:57
  really important by explicitly saying we are to approach God
• 3:01
  and call God Father.
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  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I want you to be thinking about as Terry,
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  SPEAKER_02: Arizona Actress of the Year,
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  SPEAKER_02: and the reason why people listen to the podcast,
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  SPEAKER_02: is going to read for us from Matthew chapter 6.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is a part of the Sermon on the Mount.
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  Matthew where Matthew has Jesus set up really like a Moses
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  figure up on the
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  mountain and he is sharing with us insights into who God is in
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  Matthew 5 6 and 7
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  and right in the heart of it comes this excerpt about prayer
• 3:36
  when you pray
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  SPEAKER_01: Don't babble on and on as the Gentiles do.
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  They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their
• 3:45
  words again and again.
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  SPEAKER_01: Don't be like them.
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  SPEAKER_01: For your father knows exactly what you need, even before you ask him.
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  SPEAKER_01: Pray like this.
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  SPEAKER_01: Our father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.
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  SPEAKER_02: All right.
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  SPEAKER_02: Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.
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  SPEAKER_02: That's what we're going to focus on today.
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  SPEAKER_02: So the question, maybe for both of you, and I can chime in.
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  SPEAKER_02: When you hear the word Father, what character qualities come to mind?
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  SPEAKER_02: What memories, what thoughts come to mind for you?
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_03: I certainly remember my father.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, certainly.
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  SPEAKER_03: My father passed away due to cancer.
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  SPEAKER_03: And when I hear our father,
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  I immediately think of the best qualities of my earthly father
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  and none of the not
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  SPEAKER_03: so good qualities of my earthly father.
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  SPEAKER_03: I, for some reason, there seems to be kind of a meld there.
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  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm thinking, you know, my, my dad had a, um,
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  SPEAKER_03: a really kind of brutal relationship with alcohol.
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  SPEAKER_03: And that,
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  SPEAKER_03: that doesn't,
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  SPEAKER_03: that's left out of like,
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  SPEAKER_03: when I'm trying to envision this,
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  SPEAKER_03: this heavenly father looking upon me,
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  SPEAKER_03: I do think of my father's joy.
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  I think of the way he like had this lens that he looked at the
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  world through
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  SPEAKER_03: goodness and positivity and optimism.
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  SPEAKER_03: And I,
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  SPEAKER_03: those are things that I attach to my,
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  SPEAKER_03: my heavenly father and some of the other stuff I don't.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Good.
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  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Terry.
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  SPEAKER_01: I am really just thinking about this for the very first time,
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  SPEAKER_01: like this clarity,
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  SPEAKER_01: because I think that when in growing up and hearing it,
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  SPEAKER_01: there was like this sort of vague,
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  SPEAKER_01: foggy,
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  SPEAKER_01: throne-ish image in my head.
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  SPEAKER_01: like not in any real definition,
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  SPEAKER_01: not to be disrespectful,
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  SPEAKER_01: but a little bit wizard of Oz like,
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  SPEAKER_01: but different,
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  SPEAKER_01: a different look.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then over the years I've thought about those generalities,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I don't think like John,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm like listening to you.
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've made an attachment necessarily to my,
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  my thoughts on my father,
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  maybe like,
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  I'm not even sure I get my mind around that.
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  I,
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  I am trying to look and change that narrative,
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  um,
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  in a lot of different ways,
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  but yeah,
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  Specifically,
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  the images that I get are not very specific,
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  but good and bad there.
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  SPEAKER_01: They don't go.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I had a I had a I loved my dad.
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  SPEAKER_01: My dad had a great sense of humor.
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  SPEAKER_01: He was a big cheerleader for me.
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  He was handsome,
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  strong,
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  athletic,
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  never knew a stranger,
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  but he also had a wicked temper.
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  and um so there was lots of conflict in my feelings about him
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  the good always won
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  out but i i i've never really associated the father in heaven
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  and maybe it's the in
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  heaven part that also keeps me from thinking on a human level
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  of father so i gotta
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  SPEAKER_01: be honest the word father doesn't really feel
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  like what we would think of in a father on earth to me it feels
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  neither yeah so i
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  agree you you both offer really interesting perspectives um on
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  what can sometimes
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  be the challenge with this language that jesus uses
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  intentionally let's remember
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  it's intentional uh when i was in seminary uh we were
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  encouraged to be somewhat
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  SPEAKER_02: sensitive
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  SPEAKER_02: about our use of especially male language around God,
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  SPEAKER_02: because not everybody has a great relationship with their father.
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  SPEAKER_02: When they hear our father,
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  SPEAKER_02: their father was maybe abusive or in John's case,
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  SPEAKER_02: an alcoholic,
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  SPEAKER_02: right?
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  SPEAKER_02: And the concern was, understandably so,
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  That if we aren't sensitive to the different experiences people
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  have had with
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  SPEAKER_02: fathers,
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  SPEAKER_02: or maybe not even had a relationship with a father at all,
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  SPEAKER_02: how that can impact then the way they see their heavenly father.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
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  SPEAKER_02: So that's one side of it, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: Sort of if my dad was abusive,
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  then it's not a big leap to think that this father above would
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  be abusive,
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  SPEAKER_02: especially because we get so many abusive pictures of God.
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  SPEAKER_02: from certain parts of Christianity.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  Then you have people like Terry who haven't really thought of
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  the father in terms
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  SPEAKER_02: of like an earthly model,
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  SPEAKER_02: but kind of this force out there somewhere like the wizard of Oz.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's, it doesn't really have a personal sense about it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
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  So where I am is I always think it's really important to dig
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  into what Jesus is
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  SPEAKER_02: saying about this particular father.
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  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus understood that there were abusive dads.
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  SPEAKER_02: Jesus understood that there were dads who didn't show up.
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  Jesus was aware that people had all kinds of different
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  understandings of what that
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  SPEAKER_02: word Father could mean,
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  but he used it intentionally because he wants to say something
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  to us about the
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  SPEAKER_02: Creator.
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  He could have just said,
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  when you pray,
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  pray like this,
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  God above,
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  or King,
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  Lord.
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  SPEAKER_02: But he decided to use a very personal word.
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  SPEAKER_02: designation, title, name for God by calling him Father.
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  SPEAKER_02: And many of our listeners may know this,
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  SPEAKER_02: but when Jesus uses the word Father,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's not just Father.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's very intimate.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's the word Abba, which means Daddy.
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  SPEAKER_02: So Jesus is getting extremely personal here, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: Almost intimate.
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  SPEAKER_02: To say,
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  SPEAKER_02: I want you,
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  SPEAKER_02: when you talk to God,
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  SPEAKER_02: I want you to see God as your daddy,
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  SPEAKER_02: your papa,
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  SPEAKER_02: your dad,
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  SPEAKER_02: your father,
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  SPEAKER_02: whatever language you use that was intimate with your dad.
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  I know for me,
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  just the other day,
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  it was Mike's,
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  my son's birthday,
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  43 years ago.
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  SPEAKER_02: Our baby is 43 years old.
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  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I just sent him a little funny story.
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  happy birthday thing and he wrote back ha ha ha thanks dad and
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  just to hear your
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  son call you dad and all that that means in the good sense of
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  the word and the
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  feelings that I have and you know to call my dad dad when my
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  dad was alive this is
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  where Jesus wants to take us we're not all there for a lot of
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  reasons but this is
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  SPEAKER_02: where he wants to take us he is
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  pouring a new understanding of God into our souls by using this
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  word intentionally.
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  Let me make a couple other comments,
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  and then we can kind of talk about this.
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  Because as I said before,
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  the Lord's Prayer is really about the character of God.
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  SPEAKER_02: Who is this Father to whom we pray?
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  SPEAKER_02: And why did Jesus ask us to call God Father?
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  SPEAKER_02: Because we know God's neither male nor female.
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  SPEAKER_03: Hey,
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  SPEAKER_03: Tim,
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  SPEAKER_03: I just got to add,
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  SPEAKER_03: I like the,
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  I just want to let it breathe for a little second on what
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  happens in your heart
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  SPEAKER_03: when a child refers to you as dad or dad.
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  SPEAKER_03: So both of my girls,
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  SPEAKER_03: um,
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  SPEAKER_03: probably the oldest one more will occasionally say,
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  SPEAKER_03: even in a text,
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  SPEAKER_03: call me daddy.
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  SPEAKER_03: And it always causes me to skip a beat every time.
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  SPEAKER_03: And, um,
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  And for those people who are parents out there,
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  I think we all probably feel the same.
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  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
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  there's just something special about the relationship that that
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  one little Y on the
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  SPEAKER_03: end or D-Y on the end of that word means.
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  And so I just want to give that a little bit of space because
• 12:53
  that's really true.
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  SPEAKER_02: And we'll come back to how that moves the heart of God as well, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: But the other thing that I think is interesting here...
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  is that moms and dads have a very different relationship with
• 13:13
  their children.
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  SPEAKER_02: That child is really physically a part of the mom, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's no question as to who the mom is when you're pregnant.
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  SPEAKER_02: There can be questions about who the dad is.
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  SPEAKER_02: But there's no question about who the mom is.
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  SPEAKER_02: And that baby is a physical extension of the mother.
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  SPEAKER_02: It comes out of her.
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  SPEAKER_02: A father comes to a child from the outside.
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  SPEAKER_02: And in reality, a father chooses to be the father of that child.
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  SPEAKER_02: in a way that's different from the mother.
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  SPEAKER_02: A dad can walk away, and we know that that happens all the time.
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  SPEAKER_02: He planted his seed, he can leave.
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  But for a man to choose to be a father is a different kind of
• 14:20
  relationship than
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: what the mother has.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so Jesus, I think, in saying, God, Father...
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  SPEAKER_02: is talking,
• 14:29
  is trying to help us understand that this is a father who
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  chooses to love on us,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: who comes to us somewhat from the outside,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: And just says, you are mine.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: I am adopting you.
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  SPEAKER_02: I am choosing you to be my son, to be my daughter.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it has a little different flavor than if we were to say,
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  SPEAKER_02: God,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: my mother or our mother,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: hallowed be thy name.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because the relationship is just a bit different.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: We came out of mother, but dad comes to us from the outside.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very, very pregnant word that Jesus uses.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 15:08
  and I wonder if it's like in our minds and in our hearts if we
• 15:14
  can just say our dad
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: who art in heaven.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if it's that close, that much, that intimate.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is.
• 15:22
  So basically what Jesus is saying is when you start praying,
• 15:25
  I want you to say,
• 15:26
  hey,
• 15:27
  daddy.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I can't do it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's not in my head.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: It just sounds too...
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's too intimate for me, but that's what Jesus is trying to do.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think in some ways he's trying to make us a little bit uncomfortable.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:47
  The internet is messing around with Tim a little bit as he's
• 15:49
  making this point.
• 15:50
  So I just want to make sure that Terry and I maybe talk about
• 15:53
  it a little bit and
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: we'll see if the internet will allow Tim to come back.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Terry, do you feel like...
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: See,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: for me,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: when I pray this,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: we talked about this last episode,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: but when I pray this,
• 16:06
  it's a little bit like sometimes I don't have any words or
• 16:09
  energy to pray,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: but I know this is a good one.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to babble as you read.
• 16:15
  So I want to make sure it has whatever the appropriate meaning
• 16:18
  is that it should have.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I don't know that I ever say our daddy who art in heaven.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I don't.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then what just came to me, like, and not that...
• 16:31
  that we wouldn't have affections for our father that would be
• 16:35
  equivalent to daddy.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But even as we mature, you know what I mean?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: As adults,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's just an,
• 16:41
  a thing there about being a mature adult that doesn't make an
• 16:45
  easy bridge to say
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: daddy.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I don't want to make any enemies out there.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 16:53
  but I have been in rooms where I've heard someone pray daddy
• 16:58
  and it makes the hair
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: on the back of my neck go off.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not meaning that because obviously Tim,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: you're telling us that's what Jesus is trying to say.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: But for some reason, maybe it's the, uh,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: the respect or the, I'm not sure.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm missing something.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I'm dummying down a concept.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I've just totally been transparent there.
• 17:24
  Don't send Tim hate mail with my name addressed because I'm
• 17:28
  just speaking off the
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: top of my mind,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: which is dangerous.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's just Terry's podcast.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: We're all on for the ride.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, thanks.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think this was about the time to make that clear.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that was good.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So Tim helped me a little bit with that is so,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: because I'm really tracking this,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: like the different,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is so,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: so,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: so cool that Jesus is helping differentiate people.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because we do know that God is both male and female.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a really good reason behind that.
• 18:05
  And I don't think I've ever heard that explanation before about
• 18:09
  why he might not be
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: referred to in a mother sense.
• 18:13
  Because father's choosing to be a father and love on you from
• 18:17
  that perspective.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Help me out with the daddy part.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think the...
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: What Jesus wants us to understand here,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: this is about the character of God,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: is he's saying something really profound about who God is.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: That God is a God who comes to us as a loving, caring parent, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't want to diminish mothers here at this point,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: but he's using the word father intentionally.
• 18:48
  He comes to us as this loving parent,
• 18:50
  as a father,
• 18:50
  and really does dote on us
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like dads and moms dote on their children.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that God wants that kind of close, intimate relationship.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: To your point, Terry, God is not some Wizard of Oz behind a curtain.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: God's not sitting up on a throne somewhere far, far away.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: God comes to us as Father, as a loving, caring parent.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't necessarily have to say in our prayers,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Daddy,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: our Daddy who art in heaven.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think what Jesus wants us to understand is just this powerful,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: profound,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: yet simple concept that we are children of the Heavenly Father.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 19:53
  Like little children who run to their parents with anything and
• 19:58
  everything.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: No agenda.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 20:01
  They just want to be with mom and dad and babble on about what
• 20:05
  they did in the day
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: or maybe ask for something or can you help me?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or when they're crying, they come to you.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's the picture Jesus wants to create in us.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: that we are children who are loved by our Father,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: who delights in calling us children,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: who delights in hearing us call God,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Father,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Daddy,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Dad,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: whatever language we want to use,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: that this is a very personal relationship,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: but done in the context of community.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus doesn't tell us to pray, My Father,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Give me this day my daily bread, although that's certainly implied.
• 20:46
  But this is done in community because the Father is a Father of
• 20:50
  all of us.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just me and Jesus.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's us and Jesus.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: to try to work away,
• 20:59
  that doesn't mean we don't come with our own requests and the
• 21:02
  things that we're
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: concerned about.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what it means.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it does mean that prayer is not only individual,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: but it's corporate,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: that we're part of a family.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: We have siblings.
• 21:14
  Yeah,
• 21:14
  and Tim,
• 21:15
  that's one thing that you and I talked about off air a little
• 21:17
  bit.
• 21:18
  It just really struck me lately that the Lord's Prayer is much
• 21:21
  more corporate than
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: sort of the entire rest of my prayer life.
• 21:25
  In other words,
• 21:26
  there's a lot more us's than there are me's in the Lord's
• 21:30
  Prayer.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying that you,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: I agree,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that you can't go to God with your personal,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: and I think God wants that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: He wants your personal,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: day, your personal desires, your personal gratefulness.
• 21:43
  But it's just amazing to me that this is all about us as we
• 21:47
  work through it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So though in this passage,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: just a little bit above where I started,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: it talked about going into a closet by yourself.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what is the significance then or the energy behind
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: the value of the corporate praying when I'm praying by myself?
• 22:12
  Well,
• 22:12
  I think it's,
• 22:13
  it's to remind us that we are,
• 22:18
  we are a part of a family.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: This, this father cares for me as an individual.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: But he also cares about me as a part of the family.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a reminder to pray, you know, not just for myself, but,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: for my neighbors.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, love your neighbors, you love yourself.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's a reminder that my relationship with God,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: though very personal parent to child,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: is also about being involved in the world that God loves.
• 22:57
  And being a part of not just praying the prayer,
• 23:00
  but being a part of the answer to prayer.
• 23:03
  When we talk next time,
• 23:05
  not just to pray,
• 23:06
  but to be a part of the answer to prayer.
• 23:08
  So we'll talk about this a little bit,
• 23:10
  you know,
• 23:10
  give us this day our daily bread.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we can be the answer to that prayer for people.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I gotcha.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: there's a corporate sense of the prayer that,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: that,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: that it doesn't mean we don't go private and personal,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: but it does mean it keeps us anchored in the fact that it's,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: it's not just Tim,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: his belly button and Jesus.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's Tim, his belly button, Jesus, and the world around Tim.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that helps keep us anchored.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, John.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I've got two things.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: we're working backwards,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: but Terry reminded us of verse six,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: which is,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: but when you pray,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: go away by yourself,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: shut the door behind you and pray to your father in private.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Then your father who sees everything will reward you.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: That same verse in the message is,
• 24:05
  Find a quiet,
• 24:06
  secluded place so you won't be tempted to role play before God.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage.
• 24:14
  The focus will shift from you to God and you will begin to
• 24:17
  sense his grace,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: which I think is beautiful.
• 24:19
  And then the second thing that's occurring to me is for those
• 24:24
  of us who have been
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: around church for a while,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: these two verses are probably our father who art in heaven,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: hallowed be thy name.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of like what's in the scripture better,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: which is our Father in heaven,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: may your name be kept holy.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Which seems to make more sense to me.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: What is my part in making sure the name is being kept holy?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: How am I supposed to look at that?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: So let me just give just a quick reminder again,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: that when Jesus is teaching the Sermon on the Mount,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: his reference is the Old Testament.
• 25:03
  And we've talked over and over again on this podcast how people
• 25:07
  misunderstand the
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Old Testament and they walk away with this judgmental God.
• 25:11
  And yet Jesus,
• 25:12
  based on the Old Testament view of God,
• 25:15
  says when you pray,
• 25:15
  call God Father.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a Father you can trust.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is a Father who loves you.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: So Jesus is seeing stuff in the Old Testament we keep missing.
• 25:26
  But part of the ethic of the Old Testament,
• 25:28
  of course,
• 25:29
  is the Ten Commandments.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And God reminds,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: when God gives the Ten Commandments,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: God reminds the people of Israel,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: I am the God who rescued you from Egypt.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Essentially saying, I'm the God who cares about you.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a God who chose you.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a God who protects you.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Therefore, you shall have no other gods before you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I want my name to be honored.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And this isn't because God...
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: God is protective of God's name.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: What he's saying is, I want you to live as people representing who I am.
• 26:09
  So to make God's name holy is to live like a loved child of God
• 26:13
  and to love the way
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: that God loves.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we make God's name holy.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we bring honor to God.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: To live like a loved child of God and then to love...
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: God's children the way that God loves them.
• 26:32
  So love the Lord your God with heart,
• 26:33
  soul,
• 26:33
  mind,
• 26:34
  and strength and love your neighbors yourself.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we make God's name holy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do it by criticizing people.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do it by calling them to repent of their sins.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do it by saying you're going to heaven and you're going to hell.
• 26:49
  We make God's name holy when we live out the love that we see
• 26:53
  through the death and
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: resurrection of Jesus.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And when people see in us,
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: not perfection,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: but a sense that we know,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: no matter what we've done,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: that God loves us.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: We are children of God, and so are you.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: You are loved by God.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to make sure,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: because this is how I'm wired,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: that I love the words that you said,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: and I wrote it down.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Live like a loved child of God and love others like God loves them.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you said?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: If that's what you wrote down, that's what I said.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now you mess my head up.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: the love the Lord your God with heart,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: soul,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: mind,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: and strength,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: and love your neighbors yourself,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: that comes from the Old Testament.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:53
  and I know we'll spend a lot more time on that Old Testament
• 27:56
  stuff because we get
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: so tripped up by it,
• 27:58
  but the God of the Old Testament is the father that we pray to
• 28:03
  and call daddy.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Same God.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Same love.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus is...
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think in some ways what Jesus is doing,
• 28:14
  he's sort of blowing thousands of years of dust off of
• 28:20
  misunderstandings of the Old
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Testament.
• 28:21
  I remember an old story once about Michelangelo's painting in
• 28:25
  the Vatican and how
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: beautiful it is.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then one day they decided,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: it's time to restore it,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: so to speak,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: to take all the dust and grime off.
• 28:35
  And when they were done,
• 28:37
  they thought,
• 28:38
  it's even more beautiful than we realized.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: There was just all of that stuff,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: and that stuff sort of gets in your way,
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: and you think that stuff is a part of the story.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so Jesus comes along.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: He says,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: the God of the Old Testament,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: and he wouldn't have called it Old Testament,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: the God of our scriptures is this kind of God.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this God is a father who loves you passionately.
• 29:05
  And who will take care of you and provide for you as the rest
• 29:07
  of the prayer will remind us.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the God to whom we pray is a loving,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: caring,
• 29:15
  passionate father who sees us as his children and takes
• 29:19
  absolute delight every time
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: he hears our voice.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that voice is crying or laughing or anything in between.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: We're almost at a half hour.
• 29:37
  Anything else that we need to talk about on this particular
• 29:39
  part of the prayer?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, I can't wait for the next one.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Let's clarify one thing, by the way.
• 29:50
  Terry read for us,
• 29:51
  and we talked about this last week,
• 29:53
  but it's good to remind ourselves.
• 29:55
  Terry read for us,
• 29:55
  Jesus said,
• 29:56
  don't just babble on and on,
• 29:58
  repeating words over and over again.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then Jesus seems to give us a prayer to repeat over and over again.
• 30:04
  yeah yeah so so the difference is uh john pointed it out one of
• 30:09
  the definitions or
• 30:10
  one of the translations is that these people would go out on
• 30:14
  the street corners and
• 30:15
  they would just pray publicly to show look at how spiritual and
• 30:19
  religious i am and
• 30:22
  then some people and this is still true to this day will use uh
• 30:27
  and and i'm i'm
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not 100% sure I'm interpreting this correctly, but we'll go for it.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: There are some people who think that if you use certain magic words,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: you're going to get God to act.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like what?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's not unlike...
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Can you give Terry and I a list just out of curiosity?
• 30:48
  It's not unlike the theology that says if you give a certain
• 30:53
  amount of money,
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: you're going to get money back.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you act a certain way, God's going to love you more.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: If you pray certain words, then God's going to respond more favorably.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what Jesus is doing here,
• 31:06
  he's not giving us a prayer just to say by rote without
• 31:09
  thinking about it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: He's using this prayer as a model for how to pray.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: But more than that,
• 31:16
  he wants to say something about the character of God so that
• 31:19
  when we're praying,
• 31:20
  we're focusing on the character of God and allowing the
• 31:25
  character of God to shape
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: the way that we bring our prayer requests to God.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And again, you know, as little children, they just come.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: They just come.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, sometimes they'll ask for things and we'll say no.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we'll say yes.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we'll just listen.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they don't want to ask for anything at all.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times they just want to hang out.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a father who wants to do all of that.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because he loves you.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because God loves you.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: So next week we will move on.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: The prayer starts out.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Our Father who art in heaven, let your name be holy.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Your kingdom come.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: What does the kingdom coming mean?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: What does God's will on earth and heaven mean?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Terry's going to take us through all of it.
• 32:19
  Next time,
• 32:20
  the deep grace diving podcast with Terry Summers and a couple
• 32:25
  other guys.