Latest / Secure & Simple — Podcast for Consultants and CISOs on Cybersecurity Governance and Compliance / Leveraging Online Courses for Consulting Success | Interview with Richea Perry

Transcript

Leveraging Online Courses for Consulting Success | Interview with Richea Perry · Secure & Simple — Podcast for Consultants and CISOs on Cybersecurity Governance and Compliance

• 0:00
  Dejan Kosutic: Welcome to Secure and Simple podcast. In this podcast, we demystify cybersecurity governance compliance with various standards and regulations and other topics that are of interest for consultants, CISOs and other cybersecurity professionals. I'm Dejan Kosutic and I'm the host of Secure and Simple podcast. Today, my guest is Richea Perry. He's an independent cybersecurity consultant and he's also the host of CyberJA podcast.
• 0:30
  Besides doing his regular consulting work, he is also very very active in providing online courses on Udemy. This is a platform for online courses. So in today's podcast you'll learn some best practices on how to build portfolio of online courses and how actually these courses can support your consulting practice. Welcome to the show, Richea.
• 0:56
  Richea Perry: Awesome. It's indeed is I'm grateful for this opportunity. So thank you very much for Mhmm. Having having me on your show and to be on the other side of the mic.
• 1:08
  Dejan Kosutic: Great. Nice to have you here. So, Richea how did you actually become a consultant? What has driven you to to go for an independent career?
• 1:20
  Richea Perry: That's that's a very awesome, also interesting question, I would say. Well, so all of this started way back in COVID. And I mean, not many of us like to to reflect or to remember about that period of time in history. However, that was the starting point of my my new journey as as it relates to my career development. So Mhmm.
• 1:48
  What happened is that at the start of COVID, lost my job. And then at that point in time, as it relates to the various opportunities that existed, I mean, many companies were downsizing for people who are being laid off.
• 2:06
  Dejan Kosutic: Yep.
• 2:06
  Richea Perry: So I had to pretty much do an assessment of my career path in terms of where I am now and where do I need to go. And very importantly, how do I pivot from state to move forward as a cybersecurity professional. And, of course, I mean, trying to apply for various job roles was not one of the easiest things. I mean, there are quite a number of challenges, which possibly might get into. But when I started to look at where I was coming from an IT background into system administration, all of these things.
• 2:45
  So I had to find a way to to pivot. So I decided that when I was introduced to GRC or to the nontechnical aspect of information technology, then that piqued my interest. And then I started to look at my skill set. What was I good at in terms of information security and those years of experience? And to see a matter of fact, if I should just to go back just a little bit, having acquired all of those skills, the various courses, the trainings that was being offered to me, I started applying to various jobs.
• 3:27
  And it was quite challenging. So I recognize that, look, I need to take a step back. What was I really got? How can I be valuable to the marketplace? How can I use my skills to offer and to meet the demands of what was really happening instead of seeking employment?
• 3:52
  There are skills people reaching out to me on LinkedIn on these various platforms, and then I say, let me start packaging my skills, packaging my experiences to offer back to the marketplace. And that was where my journey started in terms of consulting.
• 4:13
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. It's very interesting. And and did you find difficult actually to switch, let's say, this technical background into consulting background where you focus on governance? So was it difficult and and how did you, let's say, make this switch from, let's say, pure technical to, let's say, something that is more organizational?
• 4:34
  Richea Perry: I I would say it somewhat started with in my last job role, being an information security manager. At that point in time, I now had to be doing a mix of technical and nontechnical, meaning that I would I was now being involved in a lot of management meetings Mhmm. Board level meetings. So I recognize that speaking and rambling about servers and firewalls and all these things was not enough at that point in time. I had to take my save a little bit higher in terms of how do I build my save as a professional.
• 5:14
  So it was not what made it easy is the fact that I was no longer in an environment Mhmm. That I was dealing with these various devices, people, all of these things. I was at home. So being at home, not having access to all the fun stuff or the tools as they would say, it's made an easy transition to move from all of the tech stuff to more nontechnical aspect of things. And, of course, having that connection, that network with other professionals in the industry, starting to speak that language, having that inter interaction with others, then it made it more easier to make that switch bringing that technical experience and being able to apply those understanding to a more nontechnical level in terms of GRC risk management and the list goes on.
• 6:17
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that lots of people have this, I would say, problem of switching from from technical towards organizational. Now let's switch to this topic of of Udemy. So how did you actually select, I mean, in the first place, how did you decide to start with these online courses?
• 6:36
  What's kind of triggered you to go in this online courses work?
• 6:43
  Richea Perry: Well, that's also very interesting. The fun fact is that I thought possibly maybe prior to the pandemic, I was always an avid learner, always continuously learning, developing. And there was an an era within the Udemy platform that give one the opportunity to to create content, to create courses. And for some reason, I started a course. I don't remember what it was, and I left it there.
• 7:20
  And during that time of trying to get myself back into the job market, for sending out multiple applications, having various interviews, and, of course, having to go through the various terms and conditions of employment, and the list goes on. For some reason, I went back in to my Udemy environment just to continuously learn and to develop my skills. And I was saying, interesting. I started this course. I never finished.
• 7:53
  Let me experiment. It was all about experimentation. And one of my four first course of many was best practices for cybersecurity and GRC professionals. And this came up as a result of being on LinkedIn, being engaged in various podcasts, listening, reading various articles. During that time, there was a big emphasis on standards and best practices.
• 8:25
  And then I used to search through the various platforms, and I was saying, I I do not see anything as comprehensive as this. Why not develop? Why not put together something? And I started an experiment. And the experiment started where I created a YouTube channel at the time.
• 8:45
  And I started to each day, I mean, maybe not consistently, to create best practices videos on various domains and aspects of cybersecurity. And I recognized that people were actually engaging. People were actually asking questions. And I was saying, like, instead of send out applications, let me see how well I can actually use this to my advantage. And I did just a rough draft.
• 9:16
  So nothing was perfect. There was no perfect editing. There were no perfect recording. And I captured all of those daily video recordings, and I just put them together, and I published it on LinkedIn I'm sorry, on UW. And to my surprise, things begin to just keep ticking off like this from 10 students to 100 students to a thousand students, and the list goes on.
• 9:42
  And, also, the increments in revenues. And I was saying that now is the time for me to think of building a business from this in terms of delivering my value. So I started to I revamped the entire course professionally, structured everything, removed all of that content, and that was the starting point from one course to 19 courses of
• 10:11
  Dejan Kosutic: my courses, and I think you have what? More than 15,000 students already. Right?
• 10:17
  Richea Perry: Yes. That is what is actually published. But in my back end, it's nearly about 23,000, as it takes some time to update.
• 10:25
  Dejan Kosutic: Uh-huh. Great. Great. This is really a great success. So if I understood well, you started experimenting, but then you saw that the number of students actually started growing and then you started to do this do this more, I would say systematically.
• 10:40
  Right? Yes. Do you actually select the topics for the courses?
• 10:47
  Richea Perry: That's also very interesting. I was mentioning earlier that by being on LinkedIn on various platforms, in various forums, listening to various podcasts, and that that's also a very good aspect of being a consultant. Not listen to respond, but listen to understand. So I listen to understand what is it. I look at the the various posts that people are posting about, the various challenges that people are actually posting about.
• 11:22
  And when I look at the challenges, when I look at my experience, my knowledge, and what I was able to put forward as somewhat of a guideline or a resolution. For example, practical compliance management or practical for cybersecurity. They were all the people talking about not having experience in terms of conducting various assessment, what tools should I use, what challenges are we having. And based on my experience, based on using various tools, I said, let me based on this, then I developed my my my my course contents based on these various, I mean, topics. So each of these courses are not just topics that I grab out of tenure, as they would say.
• 12:08
  What is it is in response to the question, the challenges, the conversations that I hear and I see happening within the marketplace and what businesses are actually asking for from professionals, then I'm able to give up content that aligns with business. So by doing, for example, one of these courses, you should be able to get us some amount of skills that you can easily add to your resume or build experience by using these courses immediately to say that I am able to do x y z as a result of doing this.
• 12:43
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Great. So so if I understood well, one of the channels through which you got ideas is LinkedIn. Right? So did you what follow the discussions in in LinkedIn groups or or how did you actually get this information?
• 12:58
  Richea Perry: Well, not well, I'm I'm a part of many, I mean, LinkedIn groups, but I would not say any one particular it's just a matter of being active on the platform and looking at what people are posting about. One of the things I normally do is to provide feedback to the various posts or questions that people ask from time to time. And, also, many occasions, there are people who reach out to me, for example, my Discord server as well as to DM me on LinkedIn, talking about these various challenges and topics. So by looking at challenges that they are facing, the questions that they are asking, I'm able to use those and to turn them into research topics. So I use the topics and I build my research and I look at my skill set to see what value could I use this in terms of addressing in the markets as a professional and then develop my content.
• 14:04
  Yes.
• 14:05
  Dejan Kosutic: Okay. So you also have this Discord channel. So how does this work? Mean, how do you kind of connect the Discord channel with your consulting work with your, let's say, courses that you are developing? This interrelated?
• 14:23
  Richea Perry: Yes. They are interrelated. The thing about this card is that, for example, on LinkedIn, they might be possibly, say, do not want to be public. You just want to have that back end space where you are able to share lots of resource online on LinkedIn and not able to really push maybe material in a way that you want to or to have possibly close back in conversations and to relate to various professionals, then I'm able to use this to as well with the business to grow the business, especially with my students. I'm able to meet them there to conduct various discussions and to also to listen to what it is that they want.
• 15:06
  They also inspire the the topics that I also develop. Just, hey. We have this problem matter. Matter of fact, I can give you an instance. I developed a course called practical compliance management, and a student reached out to me to say that within our organization, they were able to pass and to prepare for the HIPAA compliance as a result of using this material.
• 15:33
  So Mhmm. That's the way I'm able to sit, have those conversations, and to create content accordingly to meet
• 15:39
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm.
• 15:40
  Richea Perry: Demands of the marketplace.
• 15:42
  Dejan Kosutic: So if I understood well, for your students on Udemy, you also provide this Discord channel where they can ask additional questions. Right?
• 15:50
  Richea Perry: Yes. They do have their their community as well. We are forming content creators to have these various discussions.
• 15:57
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Okay. Great. And you also use this channel to to get, let's say, to to some new ideas, which you then build into new new courses, these kind of things. Yes.
• 16:08
  Is this something are you using also this Discord channel for for your consulting practice? Is this also useful there?
• 16:16
  Richea Perry: Yes. I would say as well in terms of, I mean, having well, I I I really don't use it per se a lot in terms of one to one communication for consulting. Preferably, I use other platforms in terms of having those discussions. But at times, you might have people within the discord that might show interest or a company or someone from an organization to say, we're having this challenge. Let's connect.
• 16:41
  And then I would take it from there, from discord to a more private connection. So it does open that avenue for companies, organizations to to make connections with me in regards to a private offering.
• 16:58
  Dejan Kosutic: Okay. Now going back to Udemy. So once you actually decide which topic you would like to cover with, let's say, a new course, how do you then actually define the structure of the course, so basically the lessons that you want to present and how do you define what you want to say in these lessons? So do how do do you write the script? And if yes, how do you write the script?
• 17:24
  Richea Perry: Okay. Sure. Sure. Quite interesting. Possibly well, one of the best things is that I am from a teaching background.
• 17:36
  So I'm actually a trained educator or a teacher.
• 17:41
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm.
• 17:42
  Richea Perry: So that provides me with a level of structure in terms of being able to first look at a topic, then moving into a course outline. And the thing about this is that developing course contents gives me the ability to what they would say freestyle. There's no particular way I determine how the what's where of directing that particular course so that it actually meets the objectives of the the topic itself and more so ensuring that it fulfills the requirements or the needs of the learner and allows them to be able to take the skills into the marketplace, into the work environment. So that's that's one of my main guidelines. Taking the topic, developing a description, developing various topics, and then conducting research to see what actually makes sense.
• 18:45
  So it's all about brainstorming. There is no perfect script or strategy. At times, some of my recordings are actually spontaneous at the moment. I'm actually recording an idea comes, I freestyle right into
• 19:02
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm.
• 19:03
  Richea Perry: The actual recording. But pretty much, I would go through all of my topics. For example, if I'm using PowerPoint, and I would write that script per Yes. Slide in terms of what it is that I want. And Okay.
• 19:17
  Take it from here.
• 19:18
  Dejan Kosutic: So so are you writing scripts, full scripts for your lessons, or or are you just presenting out of your head? So what is typically the the best approach in your in your your opinion?
• 19:31
  Richea Perry: I I I do write a lot of scripts just for structure, consistency, clarity, content, just to ensure that I'm actually on point in terms of meeting objectives. Because the thing is that if you are not skilled enough and you try to go freestyle, you might go off tangent and missing the overall overall gist or focus of the course. So you never ever want to do that. If you are teaching x, if you're trying to bring across x, try to be on point so that the learner is captivated. They feel that they are getting something for value, and they understand what it is that you're trying to bring across.
• 20:15
  So that's very important.
• 20:17
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Mhmm. And do you find ChatGPT as a good tool to help you write the script or or actually come up with the structure of the course?
• 20:27
  Richea Perry: It has immensely improved on where I'm coming from. Mhmm. I can tell you it's one of the the best things that has really been helping me so far. I mean, I've actually tried a number of various AI platforms that has given me ideas and made my life, I would say, much easier in terms of developing content.
• 20:54
  Dejan Kosutic: Yep. Yeah. I also found it I I am also developing some courses for our company and and yes, mean, lately since I started using the I I'm much faster. I'm like at least five times faster, you know, when comparing to to the, times before Chajjupiti. Of course, I'm always the one that has to give instructions on what I want and to review the whole text and make corrections, but it's much faster.
• 21:23
  Richea Perry: Yes. It is.
• 21:24
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. It's it's very good. And, do you think that, by using AI, you're kind of losing your personality or your personal touch, in these courses?
• 21:37
  Richea Perry: No. I would not say that, to be honest, because I always try to meet my presence known. That's the most important thing. Mhmm. Because the thing is I am doing this as from a consultant perspective.
• 21:52
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm.
• 21:52
  Richea Perry: So people need to know who I am. They need to know what I'm capable of capable of. They need to know what skill set I have and what it is that I'm actually bringing as value. So as important and as good as AI is in terms of assisting me, I do not allow AI or, for example, AI generated videos, all of these things to really take away from Mhmm. The actual content.
• 22:25
  I try to make my course be created in such a way that you feel as if you're actually in my presence in a classroom or in a office having a conversation. Right? So Mhmm. Regardless of the the AI, I try not to allow AI to to take over Yeah. The content.
• 22:44
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. Yeah. For example, what I'm doing in in this regard is that I upload to Che Gpti the scripts that I have written previously before I started using Che Gpti, and I basically say, look. This is my style. I want to you, I mean, the AI to mimic my style.
• 23:01
  Yes. You know, simply in this way. So basically, it's it's and again, of course, I I do editing after the after Che Gipity does its thing. So, you know, beside I mean, of course, it's partially AI created text, but still it has lots of my personality in it. Exactly.
• 23:23
  Okay, good. And then once you start recording, many people think that recording of these courses is a huge problem, it's very hard, so on. So what's your take on this? How do you record so many courses in, let's say, a shorter amount of time?
• 23:38
  Richea Perry: Well, I must say that I want people to understand that, well, I do this as a as a business and also from passion as well. So I take it very seriously in terms of delivering quality. I mean, at the get go, it was not as quality as serious as as as it was in comparison to now. So I I I I actually lost my chain of thoughts. I mean, can you repeat that question for me?
• 24:12
  Sorry about that.
• 24:13
  Dejan Kosutic: How do you record? I mean, do you, like, sit in front of your computer and simply turn the camera on, or do you have some kind of a studio, or or what do
• 24:20
  Richea Perry: you do? Sure. So all of my recordings are actually done. There's no I mean, just as all you and I have in this conversation, you're you're I have no particular student. I have no advanced equipment, although I wish I had at times in terms of certain features that I would love, but I I really don't allow that to take away from what I am doing.
• 24:44
  So I I pretty much use, I mean, simple applications, whether it be PowerPoints. I mean, trying to have a good microphone for sure. The key things on LinkedIn or for any course has to do with your audio. Clarity. In many cases, people really don't need to really see your face.
• 25:06
  Right? So what I normally do in many instances is to for example, at the start of my course, I might do a visual recording of me. At a particular midway in the course, might show or I create just a snippet at a section where I'm actually speaking and demonstrating. But ensuring that you have good clarity, good audio, even to speak at a slower pace or speed, knowing that not everyone speaks English, so you try to be as clear as possible. So there are no advanced, I mean, equipment as as people might think.
• 25:44
  Dejan Kosutic: So Yeah. Yeah. No. That's actually very good. I mean, because you can really, you know, start with this business on the technical end without a big investment.
• 25:53
  You know, you use basically what you're using for a regular, I don't know, Zoom or Teams call. Right?
• 25:58
  Richea Perry: Yeah. That yeah. That's the thing. That's that's very important. Always try to start, I mean, with what you have before you try to get advanced.
• 26:08
  Mhmm.
• 26:09
  Dejan Kosutic: Okay. And how do you then edit these videos? I mean, do do you have to edit them in some specific way to be I don't know. They're appropriate for Udemy, or how does this work?
• 26:23
  Richea Perry: Well, as it relates to editing, for sure, there are certain standards in terms of your resolutions, your definitions. They
• 26:31
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm.
• 26:31
  Richea Perry: Use a lot of high definitions. So, I mean, Canva is a go to. Right? And this is not just about any promotional. Right?
• 26:40
  That's just me that's telling you the things that I use. That's one of my go to tools in terms of once I do my recordings, then all the additional features, I mean, converting my videos by definition if I want certain, I mean, graphic or topics or anything that I need to kind of create some amount of energy to my courses then all will be placed there. But I am not so much, at this point, focused so much on anything that is adequate quality if I'm trying to have it already. So I am more about delivering the content and ensuring that you get the value for money and being able to use that skill applicably in the real world. That's my main focus.
• 27:35
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Well, and from my experience, I mean, these editing tools for videos are really easy to use. I I'm not a graphical designer Marcel, but I learned it in, I don't know, half an hour or an hour how to use it. And it's really not expensive. I'm not using the same tool, I'm using a different one, but it's, what, a couple of maybe $20.30 dollars per month.
• 27:54
  So it's obviously not, such a big issue for, you know, for for starting with this kind of Yes. Yes. Course creation. Yeah.
• 28:03
  Richea Perry: It's far more Then I mean, far more, affordable. No. Than previously. Yes.
• 28:08
  Dejan Kosutic: Yep. Yep. And then okay. And then once you start, the the once you publish these courses on on Udemy, how do you actually promote them? So how do you get customers?
• 28:18
  How how do you get students?
• 28:20
  Richea Perry: Wow. Interesting. Now this goes back to my groundwork. And when I say groundwork, I mean, before I even started creating content, our courses per se, Building your reputation, building your brand as they would say. Ensuring that you establish yourself to be someone of value.
• 28:52
  Taking that time to especially with my podcasting. Right? That's an open doors to so many people in terms of my networking. So I've been created my my my presence, my footprint on the Internet, I mean, via my YouTube channel, the the podcast, always publishing helpful content, responding to so many people. I mean, at times, it was quite cons time consuming.
• 29:21
  I felt burnt out many times, but this allowed me to amass so many people in my network. So when I started doing these courses, as soon as I create a content, I would freely give away these courses to my immediate groups that I'm a part of for them to enjoy, to provide feedback, to share, to bring to their organizations. And by doing this, I'm able to create the level of traction because these are the people that actually share this content back with their network and their network and the list goes on. So Uh-huh. Constantly providing daily content and then pointing people to for example, if I do a particular post and you want to advance your skills in that gaining more knowledge, then you could think of taking one of these courses.
• 30:21
  So that's pretty much how I go about doing it.
• 30:25
  Dejan Kosutic: And what do you feel? What was the what is let's say, the best channel of of promoting these, courses? Is this word-of-mouth, from these, students, initial students, or or is this, I don't know, LinkedIn or YouTube? What do you feel actually brings you the most of for the students?
• 30:42
  Richea Perry: I would say most of the track well, apart from the marketing, that is done by the platform itself. Because, I mean, there are multiple platforms that these courses are offered on. I would say that Udemy has has garnered the greatest sorry. The LinkedIn platform has garnered the greatest, I mean, traffic in terms of funneling into this based on my relation, based on my interaction with so many people and various networks that are there.
• 31:13
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. That's interesting. So on LinkedIn, are you primarily using your posts on your profile, or are you using direct messages, or or what do you find the most effective?
• 31:24
  Richea Perry: I would say post. Mhmm. So it's a combination of direct messaging, but my posting. I have here as for example, my CyberJA group. I have here articles that I I published, I mean, consistently producing these contents.
• 31:43
  So that's that's my main platform that I use.
• 31:48
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Okay. Great. Great. And how do you actually make business out of this?
• 31:57
  So I noticed that these courses on on Udemy are what? $10.20 dollars or so, you know, for for students. So how do you actually is the main business actually out of these fees that you get directly from Udemy, or is there some connection, let's say, to your consulting business? So where is the business model there?
• 32:21
  Richea Perry: Well, that that that that's the interesting thing. The business model is that by doing these courses, and that's a very interesting question that each of these courses pretty much represents my skill, my year of specialization. So when organizations look and they say, oh, this guy is good at compliance management or this guy because, I mean, I have a I've had many people, companies reach out to me to develop various content or to work on various areas of project as a result of seeing these content. Each of these content or each of these course is like an arm of my skill set.
• 33:08
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm.
• 33:09
  Richea Perry: It's for example, let's say that I am the business, and each of my arm is represented by one of these courses in terms of my capabilities. Mhmm. Mhmm. Students that take these courses are also employees. Employees work organizations.
• 33:27
  Where do you got this particular skill set? How were you able to do this thing? Cyber j. Oh, let me refer you to this guy. He knows how to do x y z.
• 33:38
  So that is the principle. That's the business model. Create a course. The course represents who I am, my skill set that I'm able to do, and it filters right back to me on a one on one basis with people from organizations reaching out to me to say we need you to do this based on the fact that you are able to demonstrate it in this course and to provide people resources to do and to work within organizations. So that's the my, I will say, model of business.
• 34:10
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Mhmm. This is very interesting. So, basically, you're you're using Udemy as a promotional channel. It's not, if I understood well, as much as about getting these fees from these courses as basically, it's it's about building your personal brand, personal, let's say, expert you're showing your expertise to a potential customers and since this is how you convert them, right?
• 34:33
  Richea Perry: Yes, it is.
• 34:36
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah, it's very, very interesting. Very interesting. Okay, and by the way, how did you go for Udemy? I mean, are other platforms like Coursera, like Khan Academy, you know, many others. So why Udemy?
• 34:53
  Richea Perry: Well, I as I've mentioned earlier, I I had a an account with Udemy at the very get go, and it had that feature, that capability to create content. So I was not really, like, signed up with any other platforms at that point in time. Matter of fact, it's at the point of COVID, during COVID, that I started deep diving into studying from various platforms. So as a result so it was as a in terms of just selecting this. Right?
• 35:30
  But it was as a result of actually having an account with Udemy. They have that platform for doing this. And by doing this, I was then contacted by so many other content developers and content providers to say, look. We love your content. We enjoy what you are doing.
• 35:51
  We see the work. Can you host your your courses? So that gives me gives me more leverage in terms of my footprint in the marketplace.
• 36:02
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. So did you try some other platforms, or or you stick only to Udemy for now?
• 36:07
  Richea Perry: Yes. I've tried quite a number of platforms, I mean, that are actually in the market.
• 36:13
  Dejan Kosutic: Uh-huh. And which one turns out to to be the best? Is it Udemy or or something else?
• 36:19
  Richea Perry: Udemy always is at the top of the list.
• 36:22
  Dejan Kosutic: Oh, okay. In terms
• 36:24
  Richea Perry: of your your your affiliations, in terms of your their footprint in the market, and yes.
• 36:34
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. Okay. And how do you see actually this market for online courses, online training in, let's say, next five to ten years? So what do you think? In in which direction will this this whole, let's say, industry develop?
• 36:50
  Richea Perry: I would say that that that that there will always be a need for training, for teaching, for delivering content. But the fact is that despite the advancement of AI, AI needs to get data from somewhere to train. Someone has to train AI models, whether they are, well, autonomous or whatever they want to say in terms of agentless. There has to be something to feed into. There has to be somewhere that these models actually get information from, which was brought down to the human element.
• 37:25
  So there's always that need for one to one or people being able to put together their skill sets, their experience. Right? Experience is not something that you can actually go into a marketplace and to say, sell me some experience. So you always have a unique skill set, unique unique experiences that needs to be showcased or to be marketed or to be demonstrated in any particular way possible. So this will all there will always be a market for content creation.
• 38:01
  Dejan Kosutic: Mhmm. So you don't think that AI will replace course instructors?
• 38:09
  Richea Perry: I it might reduce it might reduce the the the physical element in courses in that people can easily put a few scripts in it, and AI and AI will just turn that into whatever you want to deliver that content. But at the end of the day, you need somebody. I have tested quite a number of AI platforms. You need that element to structure the courses the way that you want it. Because AI will always design something based on the parameters that exist.
• 38:41
  But the way that you want it, how you want it to be delivered, and what the value that you want end user to get, AI can never assume that. That's an emotional experience that AI can never achieve in terms of giving back.
• 38:58
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. But only emotional. I I think it's also about the insight that you have as as an expert that AI simply doesn't have because, you know, AI is, trained on publicly available data. Right? So it doesn't have all the expert insights that you have.
• 39:13
  And then when you add this expert insight into the whole thing, then you basically this is something that AI cannot simply copy.
• 39:25
  Richea Perry: Definitely not. I I've actually tried a number of experiments that at times it's like you want to use your keyboard to, like you could physically hold on to AI and and use a keyboard to give it a few slaps here and there. Just to show you the fact that, I mean, AI will never be able to be and to do as humans do the way we want to. Yeah.
• 39:52
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. And there is also another aspect that I I think that humans will actually have an advantage over AI in terms of training. And this is really in in, you know, presenting yourself as an instructor. Because, you know, if if there is a student that needs to, let's say, go through the course of, I don't know, a couple of days, so let's say ten, twenty, fifty hours, it's natural to watch another person presenting the course material. If this was some kind of an AI generated character or something that is obviously not a human, then it would be much harder for students to follow this kind of course.
• 40:37
  So I I think yeah humans from this insight point of view but also from the simply being a human it's easier to learn from another human rather than virtual let's say character or something.
• 40:54
  Richea Perry: Sure.
• 40:55
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. Okay. Good. So from basically, if we we can just switch a little bit the topic towards skill sets. So what what do you think What what kind of skill sets do you think are necessary, for being a successful consultant?
• 41:13
  So if you want to be a successful consultant, what do you need to learn?
• 41:20
  Richea Perry: Wow. That's that's also also very, I mean, interesting. A very interesting question. What do you need to learn? It's it depends on your passion, your drive, your your background, where you come from, and where do you want to go in terms of the niche that you're looking for.
• 41:42
  So depending on where it is that you want to go in the market, I mean, cybersecurity space is so wide. There are so many domains. Depending on where you want to go, then I would say align your skills there. Acquire the knowledge accordingly. Connect with people actually.
• 42:01
  Have those levels of experience. Try to learn as much as you can, whether via certifications, whether via free material, whatever you can actually get your hands on. Keep learning. I mean, just to develop your your your ability to be a subject matter expert in those areas to be able to identify your niche. So, I mean, developing your skills is all about consistent learning.
• 42:32
  I mean, keeping up to date with the various trends in your niche, and that's that's how I go about doing it in terms of try to have that tunnel vision, at the same time being abreast, being aware of all that is happening, but trying to focus on what it is that I really want to give back, and I build my skill sets in that area. So there's no specific or, I would say, magic bullet method. It's a risk acquired insight.
• 43:05
  Dejan Kosutic: Okay. But is it enough really for a consultant to to, let's say, train him or herself only in re with regards to cybersecurity, or or or are there also some other skills, like communication skills, marketing skills, you know, technical skills? So what do you need? I mean, what do you think? You In in which kind of areas, should consultants, get education, about?
• 43:34
  Richea Perry: Well, that that's that's that's also a very good one. So definitely, for sure, at this point then, as I've done a quite a number of articles and, I mean, podcast speaking about communication, building relationships, those are fundamental principles. The communication on taking time to understand organizations. Mhmm. Organizational management operations.
• 44:03
  The business aspect of things is very important in terms of the economics, the finance. Right? Everything that you do from this point forward has to be about business continuity, business alignment. Is no longer just about cybersecurity risk, and we want to implement a particular tool. Whatever you do must be in line with how can I help this particular business or organization operate securely, consistently, be resilient in what they do in line with their business objectives?
• 44:42
  So whatever, regardless of what you're doing, you know how to start communicating and putting forward things from a a business aspect. So that's that's a very important skill set that you have to have, that balance between speaking the technical and having that business acumen as a professional. So if you never had that before, I strongly recommend that you connect with people. You learn in terms of business aspect.
• 45:14
  Dejan Kosutic: Yep. Okay. Great. Great. So let's let's go towards the end of the interview.
• 45:21
  So last question. So what would you give kind of recommendation for for other consultants if they want to build these courses on whatever platform and if they want to kind of build their own personal brand, what are kind of the key things really to focus on?
• 45:43
  Richea Perry: Well, very important at least to know what you're about first. You will need to identify what it is that you want to offer, and then you try your your your best to represent that as a professional. So make yourself known. That's very important. You must make yourself known in the marketplace.
• 46:08
  If people do not know who you are, what you are about, do not expect people to come running to you, right, as a business. And at times, people try to create fancy businesses. They go, they create the the most fancy websites, and they do all these various things, but there's no presence. No one knows who they are, what they do, I mean, what value. So one of the key key things is that do not focus on revenue or creating just for the sake of monetary gain.
• 46:44
  One of my main focus and skills are values. Our advice I would give is always try to think of what value can I provide? Who can I help with the skills that I have? Try to have people interest at heart. Right?
• 47:02
  So once we recognize that you are truly someone who is not just a I mean, I've come up this I mean, this podcast is not enough for me to really share some experiences of people who are just in this. All they need is for you just to sell you something. That's all they want. There's no interest about who what what you are doing, how do you survive, how do you operate. So you have to have passion for what you do and to really have that that that zeal for for for people in terms of services that you offer as a professional.
• 47:42
  Dejan Kosutic: Okay, great. So I think this is a great kind of conclusion for today's podcast. So I think this was very, very insightful, great, I mean, way to to really build these courses and build your consulting profile. So thanks again for this insight, Richie. It it's been a pleasure talking to
• 48:06
  Richea Perry: Sure. I do, I mean, to enjoy the conversation, and thanks for having me on on your show, and I wish you all the success.
• 48:16
  Dejan Kosutic: Yeah. Thanks again for joining us, And thanks everyone for listening or watching this podcast and see you again in two weeks time in our new episode of Secure and Simple podcast. Thanks for making it this far in today's episode of Secure and Simple podcast. Here's some useful info for consultants and other professionals who do cybersecurity governance and compliance for a living. On Advisera website, you can check out various tools that can help your business.
• 48:46
  For example Conformio software enables you to streamline and scale ISO 27,001 implementation and maintenance for your clients. The white label documentation toolkits for NIS 2 DORA, ISO 27,001 and other ISO standards enable you to create all the required documents for your clients. Accredited Lead auditor and Lead implementer courses for various standards and frameworks enable you to show your expertise to potential clients. And a learning management system called Company Training Academy with numerous videos for NIS2, DORA, ISO 27,001 and other frameworks enable you to organize training and awareness programs for your clients workforce. Check out the links in the description below for more information.
• 49:34
  If you like this podcast, please give it a thumbs up, it helps us with better ranking and I would also appreciate if you share it with your colleagues. That's it for today, stay safe!