Latest / I Choose Me with Jennie Garth / I Choose...Letting People In with Karamo

Transcript

I Choose...Letting People In with Karamo · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

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Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
0:09
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
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Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. I
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Speaker 1: am so excited for my guests today. Not only do
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Speaker 1: they have a huge heart, but they are someone who
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Speaker 1: is putting so much good back out into the world
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Speaker 1: and spreading a message of love and positivity. And I'm
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Speaker 1: all about that. My guest today is known for being
0:34
Speaker 1: a part of the Fab Five on Netflix's Emmy winning
0:38
Speaker 1: Queer Eye. He's an author, an LGBTQIA plus activist, and
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Speaker 1: he is the host of his very own talk show.
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Speaker 1: Please welcome Caramo to the I Choose Me Podcast. I'm
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Speaker 1: very excited to talk to you, so thank you.
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Speaker 2: I'm very shcityed to talk to you.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember the last time we saw each other?
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Speaker 2: Of course, well a fortune, real.
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Speaker 1: Fortune, celebrity Wheel of Fortune.
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Speaker 2: Yes, of course you thought I would forget that. I
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Speaker 2: mean standing next first of all, standing next to one
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Speaker 2: of the most iconic and most beautiful women in the world.
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Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of you, but also like we
1:14
Speaker 2: were on there and I was like, what the fuck
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Speaker 2: is going on? Right now?
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Speaker 1: I can This was one of the most fun days
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Speaker 1: because you were struggling so hard and we were trying
1:23
Speaker 1: to send you like the answers struggling.
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Speaker 2: I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.
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Speaker 1: It was the pressure.
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Speaker 2: It was a pressure, that's what it was.
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I felt for you. But anybody who
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Speaker 1: hasn't seen that episode of us on Wheel of Fortune,
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Speaker 1: you have to check it out because it will make
1:39
Speaker 1: you laugh. Oh very well, very very well. Such an
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Speaker 1: exciting time in my life and yours.
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Speaker 2: Yes, tell me what's making your exciting? I want to hear.
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Speaker 2: I know it's about when you're interviewing me, but I'm
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Speaker 2: always like, yeah.
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Speaker 1: I just have a lot of really fun new things
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Speaker 1: happening at this age in the stage in my life
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Speaker 1: I never really saw coming, and it's just all happening
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Speaker 1: and I love it.
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Speaker 2: That's exciting. Yeah, that's really true.
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Speaker 1: I listened to your book over the weekend. I couldn't
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Speaker 1: read it. I had to listen to it, but I
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Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. I got to know so much about
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Speaker 1: not just you, but the culture that you grew up in.
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Speaker 1: And it was so personal and honest and candid, and
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Speaker 1: I know that was a few years ago now that
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Speaker 1: you did that book, right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it still all applies, yeah, change it was.
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Speaker 1: The journey to where you are today is so layered. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: for those of us that don't know, can we just
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Speaker 1: kind of like rewind to the beginning or talk about,
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Speaker 1: like you grew up in Houston. I did, and I
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Speaker 1: would just love to hear about your household and your
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Speaker 1: relationship with your parents a little bit.
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Speaker 2: Sure. So I grew up in Houston, Texas. I'm the
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Speaker 2: son of immigrants, so on first generation America, and my
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Speaker 2: parents are jamaking in Cuban. And it was a it
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Speaker 2: was a tough childhood because my father was not a
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Speaker 2: great father. So I grew up in a house where
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Speaker 2: my mother was abuse. He wasn't responsible with money, So
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Speaker 2: we moved constantly, constantly, constantly moved. I don't think I
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Speaker 2: ever stayed in a place longer than a year, honestly,
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Speaker 2: just moving, moving, moving. And then it got worse. We
3:23
Speaker 2: were in a hotel for a little bit, you know,
3:25
Speaker 2: just now I realized we were homeless. At the time,
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Speaker 2: I thought it was like a fun little like for
3:29
Speaker 2: an hotel. You know, we're all staying twin beds, you know,
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Speaker 2: it's so crazy with you how you process things as
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Speaker 2: a kid and then as an adult you're like, hmm,
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Speaker 2: that was a mess. But yeah, but there was, you know,
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Speaker 2: there was, it was, it was, it was. It was
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Speaker 2: difficult childhood because I had these intersections of my personality
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Speaker 2: that just never seemed to fit with anywhere I lived
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Speaker 2: or anywhere I was. So it was my father did
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Speaker 2: this thing that he thought he was doing the best,
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Speaker 2: where he always moved into an apartment complex that was
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Speaker 2: on the edge of whatever rich neighborhood that you know,
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Speaker 2: we could be near. And the reason it was because
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Speaker 2: he wanted us to be in the best school districts,
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Speaker 2: and so those school districts were predominantly white because of
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Speaker 2: the income. And so now here I am, We're in
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Speaker 2: the apartment complex next to the rich neighborhood. So I'm
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Speaker 2: going to the good school, but I don't have the
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Speaker 2: money they have. I also am a my name is Kamos.
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Speaker 2: That's completely different from everyone else, who is John Kevin,
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Speaker 2: Bill Jason. Then, like I tell people, like they would
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Speaker 2: bring lunches and they had peanut butter and jelly sandwiches,
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Speaker 2: and I'd be bringing Oxtella curry goat because it was
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Speaker 2: whatever we ate the night before. Like imagine a little
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Speaker 2: sixth grader bringing in food to Mike uwaid. It just
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Speaker 2: was all a train rack, you know. And now I
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Speaker 2: look back and I laugh and I think it's humorous,
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Speaker 2: But in the moment, it was like what in the hell.
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Speaker 2: So it just seemed like I never just fit. But
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Speaker 2: even with that happening, and always in having the hard
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Speaker 2: things at home, I just still felt like there's some
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Speaker 2: there's gonna be something better. I just always was optimistic.
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Speaker 2: I'm just an optimistic person. I just always have been that, like,
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Speaker 2: this can't be it. There has to be something more.
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Speaker 2: There has to be something more, There has to be
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Speaker 2: a better life. And that's sort of how I lived
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Speaker 2: my childhood into my adulthood.
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Speaker 1: And what's your relationship with your parents?
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Speaker 2: Like, now, oh, mom, my mother and I. So I'm
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Speaker 2: the youngest, I have all sisters, and mother and I
5:33
Speaker 2: are very close, so we hang all the time. I
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Speaker 2: actually just moved my mom to California a couple of
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Speaker 2: years ago, so I bought our house out And for
5:41
Speaker 2: anybody who's from California and Woodland Hills, which is nice
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Speaker 2: and it's just come out all the time. My father
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Speaker 2: and I have had a tumultuous relationship because at the
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Speaker 2: age of fifteen, I let him in. Regarding my sexuality.
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Speaker 2: Use the term coming out. It's actually a term that
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Speaker 2: I've been spending the last couple of years trying to destroy.
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Speaker 1: I love this, by the way, because I've never felt
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Speaker 1: comfortable saying coming out. That phrase just didn't feel right.
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Speaker 2: It's antiquated, and I think there was a time in
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Speaker 2: the LGBTQIA community where it was empowering. It's like, you're
6:21
Speaker 2: not going to force me to hide, I am going
6:23
Speaker 2: to be But now it's like we're forcing people to
6:28
Speaker 2: make these grand announcements to people who don't matter to
6:32
Speaker 2: them and don't have any any bearing on their lives.
6:37
Speaker 2: And we're also forcing people to say to someone you
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Speaker 2: now have the power to accept or deny me based
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Speaker 2: on me coming out to you, and that's actually not
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Speaker 2: the process. The process is I'm going to let you
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Speaker 2: in because I trust you and I love you. And
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Speaker 2: if I don't want to let you in, it doesn't
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Speaker 2: mean I'm ashamed of who I am. It doesn't mean
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Speaker 2: that I am not okay with me. It means that
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Speaker 2: the same way, I don't let everyone my front door.
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Speaker 2: I don't need to let you into my personal life
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Speaker 2: because you're not worthy of that space, or maybe you're
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Speaker 2: not emotionally or mentally intelligent enough to handle it. And again,
7:10
Speaker 2: your choice, it's my choice. It's my choice. You don't
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Speaker 2: get the power to accept or deny me because I
7:15
Speaker 2: have already accepted myself, right, And so I left my
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Speaker 2: family in my family when I was fifteen regarding my sexuality,
7:23
Speaker 2: and my father had an adverse reaction. He just couldn't
7:26
Speaker 2: reconcile his relationship with his son with his relationship with
7:29
Speaker 2: his religion, and it became abusive. He didn't you know,
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Speaker 2: he didn't have memory in high school. He would just
7:36
Speaker 2: walk past me for days and not talking too, and
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Speaker 2: you know, it was abusive. And then and then once I,
7:46
Speaker 2: you know, graduated high school, I was like, deuces, I
7:48
Speaker 2: don't need to do in my life. You know, I'm gone.
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Speaker 2: And we didn't speak for about I don't know, thirteen years, fourteen,
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Speaker 2: fifteen years. We didn't speak, no contact at all. And
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Speaker 2: during that time I forgave him, like I'm one of
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Speaker 2: these people who I don't hold on to grudges. I
8:04
Speaker 2: kind of like there's a nature in me that I
8:07
Speaker 2: don't know where it came from, but I'm just like,
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Speaker 2: I don't want to hold on to like your bs.
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Speaker 2: I don't want to hold onto it like I'm able
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Speaker 2: to release it pretty easily.
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Speaker 1: That's lucky, good, Yes, it is.
8:17
Speaker 2: I help so many people who don't know how to
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Speaker 2: do that, and I'm always trying to give them the
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Speaker 2: tools too, And like, for some reason, my entire life,
8:24
Speaker 2: I've been able to. And so it wasn't until about
8:26
Speaker 2: maybe six years ago he came back around and he
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Speaker 2: wrote me a letter and said, I'm so sorry for
8:30
Speaker 2: the way I treated you. I'm so sorry for now
8:32
Speaker 2: loving you as a parent, and he asked for my forgiveness,
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Speaker 2: and I was like, I forgave you. I was like,
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Speaker 2: I forgave you years ago. You've been holding onto this.
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Speaker 2: I moved on, and so now we have somewhat of
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Speaker 2: a relationship. You know, it's it's growing. But yeah, that's
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Speaker 2: that's me and my parents and my family.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes me feel so good. I'm happy that
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Speaker 1: you that he came to that place.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, on his own journey, his own journey, and yeah,
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Speaker 2: you know, I think what I've learned from that that
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Speaker 2: I try to teach people is, you know, setting the
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Speaker 2: boundaries and being clear about you're not going to be
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Speaker 2: allowed to hurt me allowed him the space to make
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Speaker 2: a choice for the turpe of person he decided he
9:14
Speaker 2: should be, and allowed him to say because I realized
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Speaker 2: I don't want to force anybody to learn, right, It's
9:23
Speaker 2: not my job. I'm open to helping somebody grow, but
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Speaker 2: I can't help you learn about the person that you
9:30
Speaker 2: want to be. And I say that both professionally and
9:32
Speaker 2: just as a human being, I can't. You have to
9:35
Speaker 2: make the choice that you want to learn, and you know,
9:38
Speaker 2: like I can be blue in the face telling you
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Speaker 2: to read this book, learn about this, understand and until
9:44
Speaker 2: you make that choice, no, But once you make that choice,
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Speaker 2: I'm going to be there with open arms to help
9:49
Speaker 2: you to grow, to help you to understand how you
9:51
Speaker 2: can use that knowledge to be better and to be
9:53
Speaker 2: a better human being for yourself and other people. And
9:56
Speaker 2: because I let him go, he made the choice to learn,
10:00
Speaker 2: and then I was there to help him grow. And
10:02
Speaker 2: he's growing into a better man that he's ever been
10:05
Speaker 2: in his seventy five years. He's finally turning into the
10:09
Speaker 2: man that maybe he should have been when we were
10:10
Speaker 2: all younger.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I mean, thank god he's there now, but yeah,
10:16
Speaker 1: sorry for those stairs. Yeah god, you are a beautiful,
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Speaker 1: open gay man. And I think that maybe one of
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Speaker 1: the bravest, scariest liberating moments in any LGBTQ plus person's
10:30
Speaker 1: life is that I choose me moment when you choose
10:34
Speaker 1: to open up to the world or to your inner
10:36
Speaker 1: circle about your identity, and that you choose to let
10:39
Speaker 1: those people in, like we were talking about, and you
10:41
Speaker 1: did that when you were a teenager your set. You said,
10:44
Speaker 1: what was that like for you? And who was the
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Speaker 1: first person you let in?
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Speaker 2: I think it was just kind of a group in
10:51
Speaker 2: high school. See, I didn't have any choice. The reason
10:54
Speaker 2: I let people n I fifteen wasn't It was just
10:56
Speaker 2: because all my peers were dating and I wanted to date,
11:00
Speaker 2: and they were all talking about crushes. And I've always
11:04
Speaker 2: anyone who knows me personally knows how to have an
11:06
Speaker 2: honest filter, Like I mean, I like, I just am
11:10
Speaker 2: just like I can't. I just not able to hold
11:13
Speaker 2: it in. I'm able to And so I'm like, you
11:15
Speaker 2: all are talking about who you like I want to
11:17
Speaker 2: talk about who I like. And the guy that had
11:20
Speaker 2: a crush on was his name was John Brown, and
11:23
Speaker 2: he was just beautiful. And we sat next together because
11:26
Speaker 2: my name was Caramo Brown and he was like six '
11:28
Speaker 2: four and gorgeous, and I just thought he was the
11:31
Speaker 2: most gorgeous person. So I just spit it out. I
11:33
Speaker 2: was like, is anybody else obsessed with John Brown? Because
11:35
Speaker 2: I'm a Brown And so it just became that conversation.
11:40
Speaker 2: So it was like, you know, I just it was
11:43
Speaker 2: just out of that teen hormones running in that I
11:47
Speaker 2: was like, I cannot, I can't, I can't. I gotta
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Speaker 2: say it.
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I really wish that I grew up
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Speaker 1: with you. We would have been very good friends.
11:55
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you it would have been a good time.
12:00
Speaker 1: Have been trouble. I've been thinking about something, and I'm
12:06
Speaker 1: sure if I have questions about this subject, other people do,
12:10
Speaker 1: so maybe this will be useful to some people. I
12:13
Speaker 1: have someone in my life whom I love very much
12:15
Speaker 1: that is gay, but we've never really talked about it,
12:19
Speaker 1: not like really gotten deep and spoken about it. Yeah,
12:23
Speaker 1: And I don't know why it wasn't like it. Maybe
12:27
Speaker 1: there were times when I avoided the conversation and everybody knew,
12:31
Speaker 1: but nobody was talking about it. So I didn't want
12:33
Speaker 1: to be the one that talked about it. And I'm
12:36
Speaker 1: the baby of the family and it just didn't feel
12:38
Speaker 1: like my place. Yeah, but how I mean for anybody
12:42
Speaker 1: out there who might be struggling with the same thing, Like,
12:45
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for me to start that
12:48
Speaker 1: conversation and why should I start that conversation?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think the importance we starting that conversation is
12:55
Speaker 2: letting somebody know that your safe space. I think still
12:58
Speaker 2: even in twenty twenty four. Oh my god, look at
13:00
Speaker 2: your own dog. Hi, maybe what's her name?
13:04
Speaker 1: This is Sandy.
13:05
Speaker 2: I wish you could see my two at my feet
13:10
Speaker 2: right now. They're Leo, They're both. Isn't it crazy how
13:14
Speaker 2: they just stay right beside you.
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Speaker 1: I have three dogs in here right now.
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Speaker 2: No. But I think even in twenty twenty four, we
13:22
Speaker 2: forget that, like, this world is still unfortunately an unsafe
13:26
Speaker 2: space and in some places where Astqia people and I
13:31
Speaker 2: think the more people know that there's people in their
13:35
Speaker 2: life that want to be a safe space for them,
13:37
Speaker 2: that want to be there for them, want to make
13:39
Speaker 2: sure they're advocating for them being an ally. It is important.
13:43
Speaker 2: I think it's important for any one of us. And
13:45
Speaker 2: so when you ask that question of like why should
13:48
Speaker 2: I want to be curious, because it lets the other
13:50
Speaker 2: person know that I want to learn and I want
13:52
Speaker 2: to know that I can be there to support you,
13:56
Speaker 2: to make sure that you always feel seen. It's an
13:59
Speaker 2: important thing we all want that, you know. I equate
14:03
Speaker 2: it to kind of what I'm trying to do in
14:04
Speaker 2: this space in my life. I realized that I was
14:06
Speaker 2: one of these gay guys before that had a lot
14:09
Speaker 2: of girl I have tons of girlfriends, but I would
14:11
Speaker 2: always make comments about like lady parts, like oh, I
14:15
Speaker 2: don't want to see it, I don't whatever. And I
14:17
Speaker 2: realized one day I was like, this is so fucking
14:20
Speaker 2: excuse me for cussing, but I was like, this is
14:23
Speaker 2: so like deal with misogyny and like like the fact
14:27
Speaker 2: that I'm like ill to the female body and I'm
14:29
Speaker 2: like supposed to be an ally to women, and like
14:32
Speaker 2: when I'm having some straight men, I don't I don't
14:35
Speaker 2: know enough about the female body and I know about
14:38
Speaker 2: their feelings, but I don't know about like how to
14:39
Speaker 2: support them in conversations that I was like, I want
14:43
Speaker 2: to stop doing that. And so I've been in this
14:45
Speaker 2: space about learning about the female body, like you can't
14:46
Speaker 2: even know. I'm digressing a little bit. Oh my gosh,
14:49
Speaker 2: the rabbit holes and the books that I'm going down
14:51
Speaker 2: to learn. But I'm doing this because I need my
14:55
Speaker 2: girlfriends to know that when it comes to their health
14:59
Speaker 2: and the things there feel and how they're changing, that
15:02
Speaker 2: I'm a safe space that we don't have to just
15:04
Speaker 2: talk about boys, cocktails, going out, you know, like I mean,
15:10
Speaker 2: we do have deeper conversations, but I want them to
15:12
Speaker 2: know that when they're talking about what's important to them
15:14
Speaker 2: and how they feel, that I'm there and that I've
15:18
Speaker 2: taken the time to learn and read. And I think
15:20
Speaker 2: to your point in your conversation by saying I want
15:23
Speaker 2: to learn and I want you to know that I'm
15:25
Speaker 2: here for you, that there's something that's special about that.
15:31
Speaker 2: But I think the way to approach that conversation the
15:33
Speaker 2: second part of your question is is this letting the
15:37
Speaker 2: people in your life know that I'm so willing you know,
15:40
Speaker 2: you don't even have to bring up sexuality, your gender
15:43
Speaker 2: or you know, in the gender if you don't want to.
15:45
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know where that relationship is, but privately
15:49
Speaker 2: being around them and saying I'm I'm so open to talking.
15:52
Speaker 2: I'm so open to being here for you. I'm so
15:54
Speaker 2: open to just being a place that you can talk to.
15:57
Speaker 2: They're going to get the clue that you want to
15:59
Speaker 2: be there have conversations, and that allows you to organically
16:02
Speaker 2: find it. But I think just the desire and what
16:05
Speaker 2: you're asking is such an important thing, because what you're
16:08
Speaker 2: essentially saying is I want to be the best ally
16:10
Speaker 2: and support for people who already have right.
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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I'm very in tune with keeping the conversation
16:20
Speaker 1: present and open, you know, and being accepting of I've
16:24
Speaker 1: just I'm always been accepting. There's no question for me,
16:28
Speaker 1: like yeah, and so I have always just accepted it.
16:32
Speaker 1: But I do think that verbalizing that and just clarifying
16:37
Speaker 1: what you're talking about that I do care enough about
16:39
Speaker 1: you to want you to know that it's safe to
16:42
Speaker 1: talk to me about anything.
16:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, about anything exact.
16:46
Speaker 1: I like that. Over here at our house, my family
16:55
Speaker 1: and I are fans of your shows. We're just basically
16:59
Speaker 1: Coroma fans over here. Yeah, no denying it. You've just
17:05
Speaker 1: finished the filming the upcoming season of Queer Eye, which
17:09
Speaker 1: is season nine, right.
17:10
Speaker 2: Season nine, Yes, in Vegas, and oh boy, for people
17:14
Speaker 2: to see.
17:14
Speaker 1: This, that's gotta be a good season.
17:17
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you it's a good season because Vegas
17:22
Speaker 2: is one of those places that you realize outside of
17:26
Speaker 2: the strip, there is so much heart and unfortunately there's
17:30
Speaker 2: so much hurt because this transient city. People come and
17:35
Speaker 2: they so one of the people. We're not gonna talk
17:37
Speaker 2: about this, yeah, but I can share a little bit.
17:40
Speaker 2: There's a person that we're helping who worked at her
17:44
Speaker 2: job for twenty five years and then that job just
17:48
Speaker 2: told her they were closing randomly.
17:50
Speaker 1: And twenty five years. Wow.
17:53
Speaker 2: And this is this is that her whole life changed
17:56
Speaker 2: literally a week before we were going to help her. Wow.
18:00
Speaker 2: Perfect timing, perfect timing, perfect timing.
18:03
Speaker 1: I mean for her to grow with you, wow.
18:05
Speaker 2: Yes, everything, for her to be able to grieve the
18:08
Speaker 2: change in her life, understand how she's going to have
18:11
Speaker 2: to move forward believing in herself again. Also just financially
18:15
Speaker 2: like for us to be able to come in and say,
18:17
Speaker 2: here is some support as you're about to go through
18:20
Speaker 2: this new change. We just I just fell in love
18:24
Speaker 2: with the people who live outside of the Strip of Vegas,
18:28
Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, this town is more than
18:32
Speaker 2: we give it credit for, and so I'm so excited
18:35
Speaker 2: to see it. We also have a new cast member, Jared.
18:37
Speaker 1: Yes, and what happened Bobby left the show? You and
18:42
Speaker 1: Bobby are close? We're close? Are you still close?
18:45
Speaker 2: Yeah? Me and Bobby are like best friends. He lived out,
18:47
Speaker 2: so we see each other all the time.
18:48
Speaker 1: Oh perfect. I love that I've had that happen where
18:52
Speaker 1: you're on a long running show and then someone that
18:55
Speaker 1: you love, your friend, your castmate, leaves, and I know
19:00
Speaker 1: that can be difficult ground and like, how did you
19:03
Speaker 1: navigate that friendship with someone when you're working relationship ends?
19:08
Speaker 1: Because I think a lot of people can relate to that,
19:10
Speaker 1: no matter what their career is.
19:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, like, I believe that any friendship. So
19:16
Speaker 2: I have people who I work with that I'm friends
19:18
Speaker 2: with at work, and I have friends and this is
19:19
Speaker 2: not on Queerie. Queer as one of the shows I
19:21
Speaker 2: get along with everyone, So I'm friends. I'm friends with everyone,
19:25
Speaker 2: I say to say in other spaces, I've had friends
19:28
Speaker 2: who work friends and I have friends that I know
19:29
Speaker 2: that I want to build a relationship with, and I
19:31
Speaker 2: think sometimes people don't have that clear distinction, and so
19:35
Speaker 2: things happen, and transitions happen. It becomes muddy and weird
19:39
Speaker 2: because some people don't know where they stand. Yeah, we've
19:42
Speaker 2: never had a real transparent conversation because it's hard because
19:46
Speaker 2: the assumption is, because we've spent eight hours a day
19:49
Speaker 2: together for four years, five years, twenty years, that we
19:52
Speaker 2: know each other. And sometimes you realize you don't. You
19:55
Speaker 2: know a version of me that's at work. You know
19:58
Speaker 2: this part of me, but I've never let you into
20:00
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. And so for me, maintaining
20:04
Speaker 2: the relationship was more so about being an empathetic listener.
20:09
Speaker 2: You know, I tell people all the time. My granny
20:10
Speaker 2: used to tell me I have two ears and one mouth,
20:12
Speaker 2: which means he's supposed to be doing one of those
20:14
Speaker 2: things double time. And the thing that you're doing double
20:16
Speaker 2: time is listening. And so during this transition, I realized
20:21
Speaker 2: my job was not to run my mouth. It was
20:23
Speaker 2: to listen to how everyone is feeling, Like, tell me
20:26
Speaker 2: how you're feeling, and know that I'm space that is
20:30
Speaker 2: not trying to solve it, not trying to be a solution,
20:32
Speaker 2: but just wants you to know that you're being heard,
20:35
Speaker 2: because I think that sometimes in transition, people don't feel heard,
20:40
Speaker 2: and we don't feel heard, that's when the feelings of anxiety,
20:45
Speaker 2: of loneliness, of isolation pop up, because you feel like
20:49
Speaker 2: I'm on this island by myself. And so what helped
20:53
Speaker 2: my transition with Bobby is that he always knows he's heard.
20:57
Speaker 2: He's always felt hurt, and he knows that I'm listening
21:01
Speaker 2: and that I'm not here to judge his choices or
21:04
Speaker 2: anyone else's choices. I'm here just to listen and let
21:07
Speaker 2: him know that I'm here for him. And you know,
21:10
Speaker 2: one of the things that I love about what Bobby
21:12
Speaker 2: does is like like he gives me a call, like
21:14
Speaker 2: when we were shooting, and he's like, I hope it's
21:15
Speaker 2: going great. I hope the season's awesome. I hope this
21:19
Speaker 2: is happening, and I'm like that just shows the character
21:22
Speaker 2: of you know, He's like, I hope the guys are
21:24
Speaker 2: having a good time, and it just shows that for
21:27
Speaker 2: each of us, you know, like no matter what, we
21:30
Speaker 2: understand that there's a bigger piece, which was helping people
21:33
Speaker 2: and you just still want that to be good. Yeah,
21:37
Speaker 2: I appreciate, right.
21:38
Speaker 1: How is it working with your new castmate, Jeremiah.
21:41
Speaker 2: Jeremiah is one of the most Have you ever met
21:44
Speaker 2: Jeremiah or Nate?
21:45
Speaker 1: I've met Nate, I don't know about I think I
21:48
Speaker 1: met Jeremiah on a plane once.
21:50
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my gosh, you're very love He's he's one
21:54
Speaker 2: of the sweetest, most honest people ever, dear kind at all.
22:00
Speaker 2: So what he brought to this season, and if I
22:02
Speaker 2: can be really transparent with you, is that you know
22:04
Speaker 2: this from working on a long running show. After a while,
22:08
Speaker 2: it becomes a routine. You know, everyone knows what they're doing,
22:12
Speaker 2: and everyone knows what their role, and it becomes very
22:17
Speaker 2: Having Jeremiah there made me see this show like how
22:21
Speaker 2: I saw season one.
22:23
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so good.
22:25
Speaker 2: Because I had someone there who from the first day.
22:30
Speaker 2: I remember we walked into a house. On the very
22:32
Speaker 2: first episode of season nine, we walked to the house
22:35
Speaker 2: and Jeremiah, as we were walking out and we were
22:37
Speaker 2: all deciding what we were going to do, started crying
22:41
Speaker 2: and he was so tearful, and I was like, I
22:45
Speaker 2: turned him and I was like, baby, what's wrong? And
22:47
Speaker 2: he was like, this is so thoughtful. Y'all are being
22:50
Speaker 2: so thoughtful about what you're about to do for this person,
22:53
Speaker 2: because a lot of people don't realize, like we really
22:55
Speaker 2: are thoughtful. We really think about it, you know this,
22:57
Speaker 2: We really figure out what we're going to do to
22:59
Speaker 2: help them, and we tell the producers, and the producers
23:01
Speaker 2: then support what we've said how we're going to help them.
23:03
Speaker 2: And so he was like crying. He was like, Wow,
23:08
Speaker 2: this is not just something where you know, you get
23:11
Speaker 2: on camera and then you walk away. Y'all are really
23:13
Speaker 2: huddled up talking about what's going to be best for
23:16
Speaker 2: this person to have the best life. And I was like, yeah, baby,
23:18
Speaker 2: we do. And it just it just gives you this
23:21
Speaker 2: sort of like reinvigorating like and so and he works
23:25
Speaker 2: so hard this season. Sorry, I'm laboring on Jeremiah so much,
23:28
Speaker 2: but he worked so hard that it made us even
23:33
Speaker 2: work even harder because he was fresh and we wanted
23:37
Speaker 2: to match him and like his excitement and so our
23:41
Speaker 2: excitement all went up too. Not saying we weren't excited,
23:45
Speaker 2: but like it can lose.
23:47
Speaker 1: Its vigor after a while.
23:48
Speaker 2: When it comes, and so we're used to it. We
23:51
Speaker 2: know formulas being the maggot. We've seen the formula, we've
23:55
Speaker 2: seen the magic we know, and with him there, every
23:59
Speaker 2: episode in season nine felt like every episode in season one.
24:03
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, those fresh eyes. Fresh eye aspired that.
24:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, every moment and which was beautiful and so ever
24:11
Speaker 2: people to see this because I'm like, I'm like, we
24:15
Speaker 2: haven't been like this, patting my own stuff on the
24:18
Speaker 2: back like this since one or two, like where you're
24:22
Speaker 2: just in it like everyone over hours, hours and hours
24:28
Speaker 2: over like when we did like season one and two
24:30
Speaker 2: and three where we're like I would be sitting there
24:33
Speaker 2: like really digging and having conversations for hours and putting
24:35
Speaker 2: hours and now coming back and we just did that,
24:39
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, we're thanks, Jeremiah, thank you.
24:43
Speaker 1: Oh good. Fresh energy is always good always for anything, anything, right, Yeah,
24:55
Speaker 1: talk about fresh energy. You had your father too, incredible, Yes,
25:00
Speaker 1: and then your journey to fatherhood happened in kind of
25:04
Speaker 1: a surprising, somewhat shocking a little shocking. How did you
25:10
Speaker 1: find out you were Jason's father and then Christian came
25:13
Speaker 1: into your life?
25:14
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, yes, so I have only had where everyone's
25:19
Speaker 2: adult here had sex with one girl he was my
25:22
Speaker 2: best friend. You're best friend since we were in seventh grade.
25:26
Speaker 2: Eighth was beginning ending in seventh grade, and she had
25:29
Speaker 2: a boyfriend in ninth grade who was a senior and
25:33
Speaker 2: she was going to lose his virginity to him, and
25:36
Speaker 2: she didn't want to be bad, and so she asked
25:38
Speaker 2: me if we could practice. She knew itay, yeah, I
25:42
Speaker 2: was like, I was like, okay, yeah, sure, this makes sense.
25:45
Speaker 2: We're fifteenth for out of practice. And I mean, she
25:49
Speaker 2: knew I was gay, but it was like I was safe.
25:51
Speaker 1: You were safe. Yeah, I was.
25:52
Speaker 2: I was a guy she could be weird with and
25:55
Speaker 2: vulnerable with, and she wasn't. She couldn't be that with
25:57
Speaker 2: her boyfriend, but she could me. So we slipped school
26:01
Speaker 2: and we tried. It lasted no joke six seconds at
26:10
Speaker 2: and I literally sat on the side of the bed
26:14
Speaker 2: and I apologize to her now for this, and we
26:17
Speaker 2: have a good joke, but at the moment, I was
26:18
Speaker 2: like on the mat of your bed, like, no, I
26:20
Speaker 2: don't want to do that ever again. No, I don't
26:21
Speaker 2: want to.
26:24
Speaker 1: It was probably a little hard for her to her
26:27
Speaker 1: and like.
26:27
Speaker 2: That's why I apologize and we laughed about it. Now
26:29
Speaker 2: but I was like, I took your first moment away,
26:31
Speaker 2: Like you would have had a better shot with him
26:33
Speaker 2: where a special and he would have held you and
26:35
Speaker 2: he was your boyfriend.
26:37
Speaker 1: Like who's to know?
26:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to know, but I'm like, you definitely
26:40
Speaker 2: didn't have a good good It wasn't good with the
26:42
Speaker 2: gay guy. We definitely know, me on the side of
26:45
Speaker 2: the bed rocking holding myself a blanket was not the
26:49
Speaker 2: first good look for it. And so she, you know,
26:54
Speaker 2: we laughed about it. We stayed friends. And then at
26:56
Speaker 2: the end of that school year, she moved away. And
26:59
Speaker 2: this is you know, I'm forty three about it, forty four,
27:01
Speaker 2: So this is nineteen ninety five. There was no cell
27:05
Speaker 2: phones like there are today. There was no Instagram or
27:08
Speaker 2: social media. So when someone moved, if you didn't have
27:11
Speaker 2: their home phone number or mailing address, you know, like
27:16
Speaker 2: they were gone. Yeah, And I went on my life.
27:19
Speaker 2: I went on with high school and I just she
27:22
Speaker 2: I thought about her, but she was, you know, she
27:25
Speaker 2: just was a kid that moved away. And then when
27:27
Speaker 2: I was twenty five years old, I got a stack
27:30
Speaker 2: of paper for back child support. I was living in
27:32
Speaker 2: California at this point. For this kid. I didn't know.
27:35
Speaker 2: And if I can be honest with you, I thought
27:38
Speaker 2: I was being punked because I was on MTV's Real
27:40
Speaker 2: World when I was after undergrad. I was twenty three
27:43
Speaker 2: years old, and I thought that MTV was doing like
27:46
Speaker 2: some pumped of the gay guy, like, let's punk the
27:49
Speaker 2: gay guy that he has a kid. And so when
27:51
Speaker 2: I saw these papers on my doorstep, I thought that
27:53
Speaker 2: Ashton Kutcher was in my house.
27:55
Speaker 1: You thought he was just gonna pop out?
27:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was like I thought like someone
27:58
Speaker 2: was pranking me. Why why would I ever think that
28:03
Speaker 2: was the last time I'd ever saw a girl or like,
28:05
Speaker 2: didn't put a girl like and this is years now,
28:08
Speaker 2: a decade. I'm like, there's no way that I have
28:11
Speaker 2: a kid. So Ashon Coutcher's in my house, I read
28:15
Speaker 2: a plank me. I literally went down to my car
28:17
Speaker 2: and changed clothes into a new outfit because I wanted, Yeah,
28:22
Speaker 2: I want to look good for oh. I was like,
28:26
Speaker 2: I got to and I walked in the house and
28:28
Speaker 2: if you would have saw the performance I had when
28:30
Speaker 2: I walk in that house, like I would and nobody
28:34
Speaker 2: was there to see it because the house's empty, And
28:36
Speaker 2: so I thought that the papers were for my neighbor,
28:40
Speaker 2: who is this straight bachelor, And I was like, oh,
28:42
Speaker 2: they're putting the wrong doorstep. I'll give you to him tomorrow.
28:45
Speaker 2: I literally threw the papers out, and later that night
28:48
Speaker 2: is when I opened them and I saw her name
28:51
Speaker 2: them my name, and it was my first time seeing
28:53
Speaker 2: her name since I was fifteen, my son's name, and
28:57
Speaker 2: it blew my mind, and I immediately went back to
29:00
Speaker 2: Texas to confirm paternity. That took about two weeks. They
29:05
Speaker 2: confirmed the fraternity and they gave me her address and
29:08
Speaker 2: I went to her house and I showed up on
29:10
Speaker 2: her doorstep same way the paper showed up on mind.
29:14
Speaker 2: And when I opened the door, she was shocked because
29:17
Speaker 2: she didn't come after me for back child support. She
29:20
Speaker 2: had applied for benefits for her other children she had had.
29:23
Speaker 2: She had five children total, and she had applied for
29:26
Speaker 2: food stamps, and because she had put me on the
29:28
Speaker 2: birth certificate, the state came after me. Wow the benefit
29:32
Speaker 2: she was receiving. So when I showed up on her doorstep,
29:35
Speaker 2: she was shocked.
29:36
Speaker 1: Everybody was shocked.
29:37
Speaker 2: Everyone was shocked, and in that moment realizing she was shocked,
29:43
Speaker 2: any anger that I had went away because I realized
29:48
Speaker 2: she wasn't being malicious. She was just a fifteen year
29:50
Speaker 2: old who was trying to make the right, best decisions.
29:53
Speaker 2: And the first that was I knew one of us
29:57
Speaker 2: had a chance of having a good life, and I
29:59
Speaker 2: wanted to be you because you were always so kind
30:01
Speaker 2: to me. And that's sort of why she didn't tell me.
30:06
Speaker 2: And when you hear that, you knowing the life she had,
30:08
Speaker 2: which was abusive family, I just I forgave her and
30:12
Speaker 2: we became best friends immediately. And then like later that day,
30:17
Speaker 2: she was like, you want to meet your son. He's
30:18
Speaker 2: going to be home to school in three hours.
30:21
Speaker 1: And wow, that must have blown your mind.
30:24
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, girl, I was like twenty five and
30:27
Speaker 2: a ten year old's a nine year old's walking home.
30:29
Speaker 2: I'm like, what am I about to do right now
30:31
Speaker 2: with this?
30:31
Speaker 1: Like no, yeah, I mean, but I know I can
30:38
Speaker 1: tell for you that being a dad has just given
30:41
Speaker 1: you such purpose and meanings in your life.
30:46
Speaker 2: Having finding out my son, and then within six months
30:50
Speaker 2: I petitioned for full custody with her support because she
30:54
Speaker 2: had five kids twenty five years old, you know, she
30:57
Speaker 2: was struggling. She did grat her in high school, so
31:01
Speaker 2: you know, she had to drop off because she was
31:02
Speaker 2: a team mom, and so it was my way of saying,
31:05
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, I'm done with college. My family's doing well.
31:07
Speaker 2: Now like let me support. And then within that time period,
31:14
Speaker 2: her other son was being molested and the state was
31:18
Speaker 2: going to remove the kids out of the house, and
31:20
Speaker 2: so I said, well, I was a safe placement because
31:24
Speaker 2: I was licen in the state of Texas, and so
31:27
Speaker 2: he was going to stay with me for six weeks.
31:28
Speaker 2: Why they did investigation. Six weeks started to six months,
31:31
Speaker 2: six months to return to a year. And then one
31:33
Speaker 2: day he walked in the room and he called me Dad,
31:35
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, I realized that I was
31:36
Speaker 2: a father of too, and he was doing great. So
31:39
Speaker 2: I asked her for if I could take custody of him.
31:44
Speaker 2: She said yes. And and when I tell you, she
31:47
Speaker 2: said yes, this was with This wasn't an easy yes
31:50
Speaker 2: for her. I say that now in like hindsight, but
31:53
Speaker 2: in the moment, she's rappling, like, am I being a
31:54
Speaker 2: bad mom? Right? She knew that I would keep them close.
31:58
Speaker 2: She knew that I would keep them safe, and so
32:01
Speaker 2: I became his father of two by twenty six, like
32:05
Speaker 2: a ten year old and a seven year old, and
32:07
Speaker 2: it was like the weirdest thing.
32:09
Speaker 1: With just no gradual build up to where they were.
32:13
Speaker 1: It was thrown in.
32:14
Speaker 2: Alright deep, which I think, I like that in my life,
32:17
Speaker 2: and so I, yeah, they saved my life because I
32:23
Speaker 2: was I was dealing with my own issues from my father,
32:26
Speaker 2: like I told you about of him being abusive to
32:28
Speaker 2: my mother and him being abusive to me that I
32:30
Speaker 2: had never processed. I had forgiven him, but I had
32:33
Speaker 2: never processed the pain. And having kids it made me
32:38
Speaker 2: realize that I, first of all, I wanted to break
32:39
Speaker 2: that generational curse. I wanted to break that cycle of abuse.
32:43
Speaker 2: It was so important to me. But breaking that cycle
32:45
Speaker 2: of abuse made me focus on the things that happened
32:48
Speaker 2: to me, like when I wouldn't react to the same
32:49
Speaker 2: way to my kids that my father reacted to me.
32:52
Speaker 2: It made me them processed. But why did he react
32:54
Speaker 2: to me that way? And I need a clarity? And
32:56
Speaker 2: it made me start digging and healing myself in a way.
33:00
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't have done if I wasn't a parent
33:02
Speaker 2: making better decisions.
33:04
Speaker 1: Right, did you instinctually parent the way you were parented
33:09
Speaker 1: like in the beginning, no I.
33:12
Speaker 2: Knew because it was so chaotic my childhood that I
33:14
Speaker 2: knew I had to do the opposite. So everything was
33:18
Speaker 2: the opposite of what happened in my childhood. So for instance,
33:20
Speaker 2: like the minute I got them, when we moved into
33:23
Speaker 2: a place and we were in that the same place,
33:24
Speaker 2: I was like, you're not moving around. You're going to
33:26
Speaker 2: be in the same home, and this is going to
33:28
Speaker 2: be your bedroom, and you're going to put It's going
33:31
Speaker 2: to sound like the smallest things, but I was like,
33:33
Speaker 2: you get to put posters on the wall because for me,
33:37
Speaker 2: no wall ever had anything on it because I didn't
33:39
Speaker 2: know how long I was going to be there. So
33:41
Speaker 2: it was important that they knew that that was their room.
33:46
Speaker 2: It just I you know, I didn't I got hit
33:50
Speaker 2: because we you know, we were spanked and beat and
33:52
Speaker 2: so for them, I was like, there's I'm never going
33:55
Speaker 2: to there's always going to be a conversation, you know,
33:57
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't gentle parenting, so I wasn't like why
34:00
Speaker 2: do you feel this way? It was still stern. I
34:02
Speaker 2: was still stern dad, but it was like I'm going
34:05
Speaker 2: to talk to you, you know, you're you're eleven years old,
34:08
Speaker 2: so I can have a conversation with you. Do you
34:10
Speaker 2: understand the impact of the decision. Do you understand what's
34:12
Speaker 2: going on? And now do you understand there's a consequence.
34:14
Speaker 2: The consequence is I'm taking this. You're going to be
34:16
Speaker 2: in your room, You're not going anywhere, and these are
34:18
Speaker 2: things are going to happen. And so and now, like
34:22
Speaker 2: I with my kids, like they're not fearful of me
34:25
Speaker 2: because they never got hit by me. They never they
34:28
Speaker 2: were never screamed at in that way, you know what
34:30
Speaker 2: I mean? Like it, So I just did the opposite
34:33
Speaker 2: of what I had how I was treated, and it
34:37
Speaker 2: healed them while also helping me to understand how to heal.
34:40
Speaker 1: So interesting how your journey taught you so much about
34:43
Speaker 1: how you didn't want to be I think a lot
34:46
Speaker 1: of people have that you provided them with that structure
34:49
Speaker 1: and that discipline that's so vital to being a parent,
34:52
Speaker 1: but also the acceptance and the love and the communication
34:56
Speaker 1: and encouragement. Yeah, that's a really important balance. It's because
35:01
Speaker 1: you don't want to lean too hard on either direction. Yeah,
35:04
Speaker 1: you want to incorporate both of those, all of those things.
35:07
Speaker 2: Agreed Yeah, having them feel safe enough to talk to
35:10
Speaker 2: me was like the was paramount because I never felt
35:13
Speaker 2: safe enough, Yeah, talk to my parents and my childhood,
35:17
Speaker 2: like I could never open up to them about anything
35:19
Speaker 2: I was feeling or going through it.
35:22
Speaker 1: I saw the episode where you and Jason talked on
35:26
Speaker 1: your show about overcoming his struggle with addiction, and that
35:30
Speaker 1: traumatic experience that you went through finding him and learning
35:34
Speaker 1: about his addiction probably the one time when you didn't
35:38
Speaker 1: he wasn't communicative with you about what was going on
35:40
Speaker 1: with him.
35:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that was hard. So during the pandemic, I
35:45
Speaker 2: found my son overdosed, and I guess, so this is
35:49
Speaker 2: what the problem is that I've talked about this for
35:51
Speaker 2: I put my child in a box because he was
35:55
Speaker 2: the good child that I never had to worry about.
35:57
Speaker 2: Jason has always been the responsible child. He's always been.
36:01
Speaker 2: I could count on him to be where he said
36:03
Speaker 2: he was going to be at the time he said
36:04
Speaker 2: he was going to be. When he was in high school.
36:07
Speaker 2: He could stay out a little later because I knew
36:09
Speaker 2: that he wasn't doing anything like he's always been that.
36:12
Speaker 2: And his brother Chris was always the one that I
36:14
Speaker 2: had to pay a little bit more attention to it,
36:16
Speaker 2: like who I had to focus on a little bit more.
36:19
Speaker 2: And because I put Jason in that box, it didn't
36:23
Speaker 2: allow me to see any signs of him having an addiction,
36:28
Speaker 2: because you know, when he slept in a little bit later,
36:32
Speaker 2: I was like, well, it's just because he's working hard.
36:34
Speaker 2: I would fill in the blank for him because I
36:36
Speaker 2: put him in a box. And I realized how harmful
36:39
Speaker 2: that was, not allowing my child, or period for human beings,
36:44
Speaker 2: not allowing human beings to be holistic that you put
36:47
Speaker 2: them in a box of like, this is who you are,
36:50
Speaker 2: and now anything you do, I'm going to fill in
36:52
Speaker 2: the blank because I've already made my decision that this
36:54
Speaker 2: is who you are. And that's why I think a
36:56
Speaker 2: lot of us miss signs of when someone is hurting, depress,
37:01
Speaker 2: maybe having suicidal ideations, is because we've already put them
37:05
Speaker 2: in a box said, oh, oh that's my strong friend,
37:07
Speaker 2: they can handle everything. Oh that's the friend who always
37:10
Speaker 2: shows up for you always. You put them in their
37:12
Speaker 2: box and now you're not going to see anything but that.
37:15
Speaker 2: And that's what I did with Jason, So he had
37:19
Speaker 2: was not dealing with the pandemic at all. He wasn't
37:22
Speaker 2: dealing with it. He felt isolated, felt alone, even though
37:25
Speaker 2: like we talked every day and everything else, and he
37:27
Speaker 2: was living with his girlfriend. I still put him in
37:30
Speaker 2: a box where I was like he could handle this,
37:34
Speaker 2: Like he's handling this, he's going great. And it just
37:37
Speaker 2: got worse and worse. And the only reason I found
37:39
Speaker 2: out is because he was supposed to catch a flight
37:41
Speaker 2: to his mother's back to Houston to be with his mom,
37:44
Speaker 2: and he missed the flight. The driver was in front
37:47
Speaker 2: of his apartment and they couldn't find he didn't come out,
37:50
Speaker 2: and I went over there upset.
37:53
Speaker 1: Because he thought he was just sleeping.
37:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, I was like, Okay, now this
37:57
Speaker 2: is being irresponsible. I know it's a pandemic, but like,
38:00
Speaker 2: there's a flight that's been paid for, car service has
38:02
Speaker 2: been paid for. You said you wanted to go to
38:04
Speaker 2: your mom, like, So I went over there like angry
38:08
Speaker 2: and then walked in and saw the door a jarred
38:11
Speaker 2: and like him fased down in his cat's cat litter,
38:15
Speaker 2: and just was I mean, it was devastating. It was
38:19
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things that I ever saw in
38:21
Speaker 2: my life.
38:21
Speaker 1: I bet that just turned your world upside down, side down,
38:25
Speaker 1: especially because you thought she was the one that could
38:29
Speaker 1: handle it and was handling it.
38:31
Speaker 2: I know, not anymore, not anymore Like I. After that moment,
38:35
Speaker 2: I did a reevaluation of every person in my life
38:37
Speaker 2: who I put in a box, and that goes from
38:40
Speaker 2: sisters to coworkers who I was like, I mean everyone.
38:44
Speaker 2: I just I realized there were so many people that
38:47
Speaker 2: unconsciously I had already fined who they were, and I
38:52
Speaker 2: erased all those definitions and said, no more defining you.
38:55
Speaker 2: I'm going to allow you to be yourself without any definition,
38:58
Speaker 2: which is going to allow me to truly see you
39:01
Speaker 2: and again hear you, really hear you, and be there
39:05
Speaker 2: for you.
39:06
Speaker 1: I think that that is such a great message that
39:09
Speaker 1: you sort of took stock and reassessed your friendships and
39:13
Speaker 1: your relationships, but even just people on the street. You know,
39:17
Speaker 1: we put people in boxes all day long, every day. Yeah,
39:20
Speaker 1: and nobody knows what anybody's really dealing.
39:24
Speaker 2: With exactly exactly, And so if you want to get
39:27
Speaker 2: to know what they're dealing with, you know, first don't
39:30
Speaker 2: put them in that box. Secondly, let them know, like
39:33
Speaker 2: we talked about earlier, that your space to be there
39:36
Speaker 2: to really hear them and be there for them and
39:38
Speaker 2: listen and then do like I said before, you have
39:42
Speaker 2: two ears, listen more than you're talking. That has helped
39:47
Speaker 2: my relationships tremendously in my life because now I'm getting
39:51
Speaker 2: to see people and be there for people in ways
39:54
Speaker 2: that I wasn't before because they were they were this
39:57
Speaker 2: or that.
39:58
Speaker 1: I mean, I can you being an expert when it
40:02
Speaker 1: comes to providing guidance in these areas for other people.
40:05
Speaker 1: And then to have this happen in your own life,
40:08
Speaker 1: I can imagine all of the emotions that you must
40:10
Speaker 1: have been going through.
40:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the thing was the biggest emotion was
40:17
Speaker 2: that came through the first thought is that when I
40:18
Speaker 2: got Jason, I promised his mom that I would keep
40:22
Speaker 2: him safe. That was my biggest promise. I said, I'll
40:25
Speaker 2: keep him safe. Don't worry, I'll keep because you know,
40:26
Speaker 2: like I said again, like, it was a big decision
40:28
Speaker 2: for her for her to hand over her son. Yeah,
40:31
Speaker 2: and inadvertently I was a stranger. Even though we were
40:34
Speaker 2: kids as friends, I mean friends as kids, I was
40:37
Speaker 2: a stranger. It was ten years later and it was
40:40
Speaker 2: a big decision and so I was like don't worry.
40:42
Speaker 2: That's why I stay close. And so that parent guilt
40:45
Speaker 2: of like I didn't keep him safe. I didn't. I
40:48
Speaker 2: didn't keep him safe. I didn't give him the tools.
40:51
Speaker 2: I didn't give him something. And I think that rap
40:54
Speaker 2: that that that rattled me for a long time, like
40:58
Speaker 2: I didn't do it. I didn't have make ship runs
41:01
Speaker 2: of my family. Like my father was an addict in
41:03
Speaker 2: my twenties, I was an addict. I I loved drinking
41:06
Speaker 2: and I love cocaine. And when I was in my
41:08
Speaker 2: twenties and so and I thought that I had broken
41:10
Speaker 2: that cycle because we had such transparent conversations about drugs.
41:15
Speaker 2: And what I didn't realize is that I talked to
41:18
Speaker 2: him about how bad the drugs were, but I didn't
41:22
Speaker 2: talk to him about how easy they can come into
41:24
Speaker 2: your life. And that was a conversation I realized, Like
41:28
Speaker 2: the conversation was always like it was so bad, I
41:29
Speaker 2: was in a dark space. But I didn't realize I
41:32
Speaker 2: didn't tell him that when I started drugs, I wasn't
41:34
Speaker 2: in a dark space. I was in a happy space.
41:38
Speaker 2: I was with friends. Like the first time I drank
41:41
Speaker 2: and did cocaine, I wasn't in a dark space. I
41:45
Speaker 2: wasn't like depressed. On some corner, I was at a
41:47
Speaker 2: nightclub looking really cute and some friend was like, do
41:51
Speaker 2: you want to bump girl? And I was like, I've
41:53
Speaker 2: never done it, but sure, Like I was in a
41:55
Speaker 2: happy place, and I didn't explain that to him. Is
41:59
Speaker 2: that these vices can come into your life at some
42:04
Speaker 2: of your happiest moments because your guard is down and
42:07
Speaker 2: because you feel invincible. And then what happens is that
42:10
Speaker 2: once you've let it in, now the darkness inside of
42:14
Speaker 2: you that you might be keeping out of bay is
42:17
Speaker 2: now going to start growing because you're feeding it with
42:19
Speaker 2: these vices. And that's what happened to him. It's the
42:23
Speaker 2: beginning of the pandemic. He's having fun with his girlfriend
42:25
Speaker 2: and his friends and he's like, we've got this, but
42:28
Speaker 2: wasn't processing the emotions that he was feeling. And now
42:31
Speaker 2: I've tried a drug because we're we're twenty and we're
42:35
Speaker 2: having fun, and now it's turned into another and now
42:38
Speaker 2: I'm depressed, and now it's getting darker and darker, and
42:42
Speaker 2: I'm doing more to try to find that first feeling
42:45
Speaker 2: that I had on that first day. And one of
42:48
Speaker 2: the things that I've now learned is I'm having conversations
42:51
Speaker 2: to help people to understand the dangers of drugs. I
42:54
Speaker 2: talk more about like that first day, it's probably you're happy. Yeah,
43:00
Speaker 2: that's the time that you have to be most aware
43:03
Speaker 2: is when you're happy and when right.
43:05
Speaker 1: I wouldn't people don't think that. People what you think
43:08
Speaker 1: of someone starts an addiction or drug addiction or drinking addiction,
43:12
Speaker 1: that they're in a low place and there don't know
43:16
Speaker 1: where to turn.
43:17
Speaker 2: Every story is different, obviously, but mijority of people I
43:19
Speaker 2: have talked to or I have helped or I have counseled.
43:22
Speaker 2: They are with friends, they are in a club, at
43:25
Speaker 2: a party, they are feeling good, they are it was exciting.
43:31
Speaker 2: It wasn't some dark alley moment you know, it gets
43:34
Speaker 2: can get there for people. It's always something fun and
43:37
Speaker 2: like new and like, oh my gosh, are we trying this?
43:39
Speaker 2: Are we going to do this? Are we having a shot?
43:41
Speaker 2: Are we're having this drug? And that's when you have
43:44
Speaker 2: to be more aware. And so what I try to
43:46
Speaker 2: tell younger people now especially is like when you're the
43:49
Speaker 2: most happiest and those endorphins are running in you, is
43:52
Speaker 2: when you have to then be really conscious of like,
43:55
Speaker 2: this is the moment I have to say no, because
43:57
Speaker 2: there's something that might be darker laying underneath that hapiness
44:00
Speaker 2: that you haven't focused on, that those drugs are going
44:02
Speaker 2: to trigger. And so this is where you really have
44:05
Speaker 2: to be paying attention. And this is where friend groups
44:07
Speaker 2: have to say to each other. When we're our happiest
44:09
Speaker 2: is when we really have to protect each other. That
44:12
Speaker 2: protecting your happiness statement takes a bigger like takes on
44:16
Speaker 2: a new way when you're like in our happiest, we
44:19
Speaker 2: really have to protect each other because that's when we're
44:21
Speaker 2: most vulnerable to getting the shitty man that comes in
44:23
Speaker 2: our life. Most happy is when we're most susceptible to
44:28
Speaker 2: that drug coming in that Like, like every shitty relationship
44:31
Speaker 2: I've ever had, I was in the happy.
44:32
Speaker 1: Space when it started.
44:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like I was like, oh my gosh,
44:36
Speaker 2: he is so amazing. I love Like he's so right now,
44:40
Speaker 2: it's so exciting we're meeting up. Everyone is that. And
44:43
Speaker 2: so like what I'm learning now is that protecting your
44:46
Speaker 2: happiness is more of a job than we actually tell people. Like,
44:50
Speaker 2: in those moments of happiness is you have to really
44:52
Speaker 2: say hold on. I know this is exciting right now,
44:56
Speaker 2: but what if and this is not Debbie Downer, but
44:59
Speaker 2: what if how are we going to protect your happiness
45:02
Speaker 2: and how are you going to still spot the red
45:04
Speaker 2: flags the things that are dangerous in the happiness because
45:07
Speaker 2: those thedorphins are going to make you not see it right.
45:11
Speaker 2: And that's it. That's my soapbox about happiness. Sorry.
45:14
Speaker 1: Well, it's an interesting perspective and something I think people
45:18
Speaker 1: should think about. So it's good that you're bringing awareness
45:22
Speaker 1: to that. I just commend how you and your son
45:31
Speaker 1: have been so open about this. These struggles in your
45:35
Speaker 1: own personal struggles that I heard about in your memoir
45:39
Speaker 1: has sobriety you think brought you and your son closer
45:43
Speaker 1: or formed a new and different kind of bond that
45:46
Speaker 1: you never would have had.
45:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, sure, like we were. I mean,
45:51
Speaker 2: our communication has always been open, but now like there's
45:53
Speaker 2: nothing left to hide, you know, there's nothing left to hide,
45:57
Speaker 2: There's nothing that because now we've made it through the dark,
46:00
Speaker 2: there's nothing he could do or say that he knows
46:03
Speaker 2: that I would ever leave him or abandon him, and
46:05
Speaker 2: so part of his fear of not telling me was
46:08
Speaker 2: that he thought how I would react, And now he
46:11
Speaker 2: knows that I will always react in love. And I
46:13
Speaker 2: think that has allowed us to get closer because now
46:16
Speaker 2: he's not afraid to tell me if something happens, because
46:19
Speaker 2: I think most children don't share because they're afraid that
46:23
Speaker 2: they're not going to get a reaction of love. And
46:26
Speaker 2: now Wow knows no matter what, when I find out
46:29
Speaker 2: you're doing something that I don't approve of, I reacted
46:32
Speaker 2: with love. I love you through this. I'm going to
46:34
Speaker 2: love you. We're going to support you. It's all love.
46:37
Speaker 2: Ever a scolding, never a bad moment.
46:42
Speaker 1: I mean that's so hard as a parent though, in
46:44
Speaker 1: the moment when something happens and you see your kid
46:48
Speaker 1: making a bad decision, is it's really really hard to
46:52
Speaker 1: take a beat and just remember that you want to
46:55
Speaker 1: lead with love and understanding. Yeah, so you don't sever
46:59
Speaker 1: that relationship.
47:01
Speaker 2: You know what comes in my mind? I always sing
47:04
Speaker 2: this in myself all the time. You know that song
47:06
Speaker 2: I'm my young soul. I came to this strange We're
47:10
Speaker 2: hoping you remember that song from back in the day.
47:13
Speaker 1: No, not at all.
47:14
Speaker 2: I'm saying I'm not a good singer. It's okay, but
47:19
Speaker 2: it's about like being a new soul coming into this world.
47:24
Speaker 1: Can you hear it in your head?
47:26
Speaker 2: I have to find this now because I want you
47:28
Speaker 2: to hear this. This is the song. The sound familiar
47:34
Speaker 2: to all, so I can't do this strange.
47:40
Speaker 1: Yes, I completely recognize it.
47:46
Speaker 2: So in this song, she just talks about being a
47:49
Speaker 2: young soul. And now since I came here, I'd just
47:51
Speaker 2: been making every mistake possible, and I just wish that
47:55
Speaker 2: everyone could remember that I'm just a young soul. And
47:58
Speaker 2: I keep I sing that to myself while I'm always like, well,
48:01
Speaker 2: you're young soul this strange world.
48:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to remember that because they don't know.
48:09
Speaker 2: They don't know, and so that's my little thing. Thanks
48:11
Speaker 2: for letting me find that.
48:13
Speaker 1: Stupid of course, I wanted you to finish that moment
48:17
Speaker 1: for yourself. But I know the song now, so thank you.
48:22
Speaker 1: I do love that song. Yeah, you and your son
48:32
Speaker 1: co wrote children's books together.
48:36
Speaker 2: Yes, we have two. One it's called I'm Perfectly Designed,
48:39
Speaker 2: which just reminds people that you're perfectly designed, no matter
48:43
Speaker 2: how you look, where you're from, you're perfectly designed and
48:46
Speaker 2: to embrace and love yourself. And then the second one
48:48
Speaker 2: is I'm okay to feel, which is important to like
48:52
Speaker 2: tell young boys that it's okay to feel your feelings.
48:54
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, and so I'm proud of like
48:57
Speaker 2: to have written two books with my boy. It's like amazing.
49:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just embarked on a business with my middle daughter,
49:04
Speaker 1: and there's something so rewarding, like you share that time together,
49:10
Speaker 1: but you also see them developing these skills and just
49:14
Speaker 1: like blossoming.
49:15
Speaker 2: It's wild. That's the same feeling. I'm like, this is
49:18
Speaker 2: just amazing. Like we also, he and I have just
49:21
Speaker 2: been the process. We just sold our first television show
49:25
Speaker 2: to a network together. Yeah, I'm so excited. I mean, like,
49:29
Speaker 2: you know this there's a process, so you know, not
49:31
Speaker 2: easy when it will make it to air, that whole thing,
49:34
Speaker 2: you know. So I haven't talked about it, but watching
49:37
Speaker 2: him write and become he's turning into this brilliant writer,
49:42
Speaker 2: which is like he was already a great writer growing
49:44
Speaker 2: up in high school and everything else, but to see
49:45
Speaker 2: it like turning into like books and now a show,
49:49
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're like, you're
49:53
Speaker 2: like brilliant. I read his words and I'm like, I
49:55
Speaker 2: was on a call the other day and he was
49:57
Speaker 2: sitting on the couch over there and and he heard
50:00
Speaker 2: me struggling to find the words to say, and he
50:04
Speaker 2: just said it out loud, and I was like, oh
50:06
Speaker 2: my gosh, this is our relationship now, Like my son
50:09
Speaker 2: is this brilliant wordsmith and now he just knows how
50:13
Speaker 2: to give dad the word. And I was like, I'm
50:15
Speaker 2: just I couldn't believe it.
50:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm getting like emotional because you didn't know
50:20
Speaker 1: you were a dad and now your dad, and you're
50:22
Speaker 1: an amazing dad and you strive to be even better
50:25
Speaker 1: and you really recognize the glory in it and the
50:28
Speaker 1: struggles in it, and you share all of that so openly.
50:33
Speaker 1: If that's what it's all about. We learn from you
50:36
Speaker 1: because of you. Yep, Yeah, amazing. You talk a lot
50:41
Speaker 1: about boundaries, and I know that that's not easy for
50:44
Speaker 1: a lot of people setting boundaries and keeping boundaries. What
50:49
Speaker 1: would you say, just really quickly, what are some good
50:53
Speaker 1: steps to creating boundaries in your life? Like what do
50:56
Speaker 1: you need to tell yourself in order to make those boundaries?
51:00
Speaker 2: Well, First of all, most people are unclear on what
51:02
Speaker 2: they want in their life. So before you start setting
51:04
Speaker 2: boundaries that you're not going to actually keep or enforce,
51:09
Speaker 2: you need to write down what it is you want
51:11
Speaker 2: out of life and what do you deserve, What do
51:13
Speaker 2: you want and what do you deserve? And this is
51:15
Speaker 2: a practice I've been doing forever, and I try to
51:17
Speaker 2: tell people consistently, like, don't have it up here rattling around.
51:22
Speaker 2: Write it down where you can see it and reread it,
51:25
Speaker 2: because it's important for you to understand. The reason this
51:29
Speaker 2: boundary is important is because I want this for my
51:31
Speaker 2: life and I deserve this for my life. And when
51:35
Speaker 2: you have those in front of you and you are
51:37
Speaker 2: aware of them, it's harder for somebody to break that boundary,
51:42
Speaker 2: overstep that boundary because you're not going to allow them.
51:45
Speaker 2: When I know that I deserve a paycheck at the
51:49
Speaker 2: end of two weeks because I've done this amount of work,
51:53
Speaker 2: your boss comes to you and says, oh, I can't
51:54
Speaker 2: pay for another week, you don't just say okay. You
51:58
Speaker 2: say no, no, no, no, no, I worked, I did this.
52:02
Speaker 2: I want my money. And it's because you're clear that
52:05
Speaker 2: working hard, doing your skills, you deserve this money. And
52:10
Speaker 2: the same thing goes for like your emotional state, your
52:14
Speaker 2: mental state. When you know what you want and you deserve,
52:17
Speaker 2: no one cannot give you your money, or give you
52:20
Speaker 2: the respect, or give you the love, or give you
52:22
Speaker 2: what you deserve because you're aware of it. And so
52:25
Speaker 2: that's the first part. As I say, I think a
52:27
Speaker 2: lot of people don't take that time to really be clear.
52:29
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's an amazing message for our listeners.
52:32
Speaker 2: And then the second thing I would say, once you're clear,
52:35
Speaker 2: I would say, before you can start setting boundaries, I
52:37
Speaker 2: tell people, get your boundary bodies. And this is important
52:40
Speaker 2: things because if you never set boundaries before, it's very
52:43
Speaker 2: easy for narcissists manipulators in your life to learn how
52:47
Speaker 2: to go around your boundaries. And so when I say
52:50
Speaker 2: get your boundary bodies, it's those people who understand equally
52:54
Speaker 2: what you want and what you deserve, who when if
52:56
Speaker 2: you have a moment where you feel weak, or you
52:58
Speaker 2: feel or you get sucked back into whatever pattern, these
53:02
Speaker 2: people are there to remind you of what you want
53:04
Speaker 2: and deserve because they've read that sheet too. And I
53:07
Speaker 2: think when you have those two things compounded, it's easy
53:11
Speaker 2: for you to set boundaries with the people in your
53:13
Speaker 2: life and it allows you to stick with it. And
53:18
Speaker 2: boundaries who can save your life and chance?
53:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, they can. So write down what you want and
53:24
Speaker 1: what you deserve.
53:25
Speaker 2: Yes.
53:26
Speaker 1: I did a similar thing with in my therapy, which
53:29
Speaker 1: was I wrote down my non negotiables.
53:31
Speaker 2: Yep.
53:32
Speaker 1: It's very similar.
53:33
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then get to.
53:35
Speaker 1: Define it yep. Get your boundary buddies, bbeses. I don't
53:41
Speaker 1: want to not talk about your talk show. I know
53:43
Speaker 1: we're running over a little bit, but let's just briefly
53:46
Speaker 1: talk about this new season of Coromo, premiering September sixteenth, right, Yes, yeah,
53:53
Speaker 1: is this season two or three?
53:55
Speaker 2: Season three?
53:56
Speaker 1: Three?
53:56
Speaker 2: Yes? Wow, it's been exciting. I shoot, so the syndication
54:01
Speaker 2: game is I shoot six to eight episodes a day,
54:04
Speaker 2: so it's it's it's a grind. My ship is different
54:08
Speaker 2: because I don't have celebrities on, so I help everyday people.
54:12
Speaker 2: And the thing about the genre that I'm in is
54:16
Speaker 2: that it's unfortunately, over the past couple of years, has
54:18
Speaker 2: got a bit of a bad rap because people have
54:21
Speaker 2: been screaming, running off, acting crazy. And one of the
54:26
Speaker 2: things that I'm most proud of is that, like I
54:29
Speaker 2: give out therapy on my show, like anybody who comes
54:32
Speaker 2: and opens themselves up. I pay for therapy. I you know,
54:35
Speaker 2: make the network pay for therapy, which they've never done.
54:38
Speaker 2: You know. I always make sure that we bring it
54:40
Speaker 2: back down to real conversations, real emotions. We're getting through it,
54:44
Speaker 2: like there's real healing, and it's it's, it's it's. It's
54:48
Speaker 2: been a journey of like rebranding this job and helping
54:52
Speaker 2: people to see like I'm not here for the solution.
54:56
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you that you can be in
54:59
Speaker 2: a better relationship with your mother, your father, your sister,
55:01
Speaker 2: your brother, or your boyfriend and your husband and your wife.
55:04
Speaker 2: And it's been great because the audience is receiving it,
55:09
Speaker 2: which I'm just wanted. They're like please, yes, So it's
55:15
Speaker 2: been a great thing. So yeah, we're going to season three,
55:18
Speaker 2: and I just know that, like this is a long game.
55:22
Speaker 2: Like you know, I think about like I think about
55:24
Speaker 2: some of the people I look up to, like Oprah.
55:26
Speaker 2: Her first seven seasons was not what we know about
55:28
Speaker 2: Oprah right now. Right people look back at early season Oprah,
55:32
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, that's that's not the show that we
55:36
Speaker 2: ended up loving in the end. You know, you know,
55:40
Speaker 2: like there was moments where Oprah used to wheel out
55:42
Speaker 2: wagons of fat and have you know baby Mama's fighting
55:47
Speaker 2: on her show. And then you know, gradually she allowed
55:51
Speaker 2: people to see her heart. And so I'm just excited
55:54
Speaker 2: for the continued growth and for people to continue seeing
55:56
Speaker 2: me infuse me and what my whole life is about,
56:00
Speaker 2: which is helping people into this show.
56:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a perfect place for you. I'm very excited
56:06
Speaker 1: for you. You've shared your life, You've shared your ups
56:08
Speaker 1: or downs, the lessons that you've learned and challenges that
56:12
Speaker 1: you've faced, and you use that.
56:14
Speaker 2: To reach people trying that's the goal.
56:18
Speaker 1: And help them through those big life moments.
56:21
Speaker 2: That's the goal. That is the goal.
56:23
Speaker 1: Sister, Share, Share, Share What a gift you are?
56:27
Speaker 2: Your gift?
56:29
Speaker 1: Okay, two last questions. When it all ends, what do
56:32
Speaker 1: you hope the world remembers about Coromo.
56:36
Speaker 2: That I hope that they just know that my only
56:40
Speaker 2: job on hair is to help people feel seen. That's
56:42
Speaker 2: all I want. That's the only thing. Like if I
56:44
Speaker 2: die tomorrow, I feel pretty good that people know that,
56:47
Speaker 2: Like I've been on this world to help you feel seen,
56:49
Speaker 2: because I don't believe this life is for me. I
56:51
Speaker 2: believe that all these experiences I've been through is for
56:52
Speaker 2: me to help other people, because my life is an
56:55
Speaker 2: up and down road culture that I'm like, I'm like,
56:57
Speaker 2: God gave me this to help other people to be
57:00
Speaker 2: for a reason. There's there's no reason that the gay
57:03
Speaker 2: guy became a dad this way unless it was to help.
57:05
Speaker 1: People and ended up on the platforms that you're.
57:08
Speaker 2: That you're able to reach this for someone else.
57:11
Speaker 1: It was all meant to be. Yeah, But before I
57:14
Speaker 1: let you go, Caromo, what was your last I choose
57:17
Speaker 1: me moment?
57:18
Speaker 2: Ooh. I had a really important relationship in my life
57:22
Speaker 2: and because that person could not be a partner to
57:26
Speaker 2: me in a way that I needed them to be
57:28
Speaker 2: a partner. And I chose me because I decided that
57:33
Speaker 2: what I want and hope for in this in relationships,
57:36
Speaker 2: going forward, business, personal, is for someone to be able
57:40
Speaker 2: to show up equally. And so I said, if it's
57:43
Speaker 2: not equal, I'm not doing it, And so I chose me,
57:47
Speaker 2: which was beautiful.
57:49
Speaker 1: It is so beautiful. You are beautiful. Thank you for
57:54
Speaker 1: I love you.
57:55
Speaker 2: Love.
57:56
Speaker 1: I'll see you around, yes, you will.
57:58
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for everything.
58:00
Speaker 1: Thank you. Wow. Okay, Caromo is so incredible. I just
58:07
Speaker 1: I love him. I just walked away from that conversation
58:10
Speaker 1: feeling so empowered to revisit some boundaries in my life
58:16
Speaker 1: and to just live an organic, authentic, open life like him.
58:21
Speaker 1: Thank you Karamo for coming on. You are so amazing.
58:25
Speaker 1: I cannot wait for the new season of his talk
58:27
Speaker 1: show and the new season of Queer Eye. Such great
58:31
Speaker 1: work he's doing. As we continue to choose ourselves. Each week,
58:36
Speaker 1: I want you to think about boundaries. We talk a
58:40
Speaker 1: lot about that in this conversation, and I want you
58:43
Speaker 1: to really ask yourself. Are you having healthy boundaries with
58:48
Speaker 1: the people in your life? Are you having to set
58:50
Speaker 1: boundaries when it comes to your work life? After you
58:53
Speaker 1: think on that, if you feel unbalanced, I want to
58:56
Speaker 1: challenge you and empower you to start following some of
58:59
Speaker 1: those instructions that Karamo gave us today. What do you want?
59:03
Speaker 1: Be clear? What do you deserve? Setting boundaries helps make
59:08
Speaker 1: sure that your needs are met and that you can
59:11
Speaker 1: show up the way you want to show up. Without
59:13
Speaker 1: them in place, it can be very hard to be
59:15
Speaker 1: the best version of ourselves, and I know it might
59:19
Speaker 1: not be easy, but this week I want you to
59:22
Speaker 1: try and define and set one boundary with that intention.
59:28
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to I Choose Me. You can check
59:31
Speaker 1: out all our social links. In our show notes, you
59:34
Speaker 1: can learn all about Karamo. You can rate us, review us,
59:38
Speaker 1: and be sure to use the hashtag I Choose Me.
59:41
Speaker 1: I will be right here next week. I hope you
59:43
Speaker 1: will choose to be here too,