Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Lucy McCaul about her choice of The Underwater Menace (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Lucy McCaul about her choice of The Underwater Menace (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
I'm so drunk. Welcome back to hamster with
0:44
blunt penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast Lucy, will
0:52
you indulge me? Okay, a quote, from the end of
0:58
this episode, It's going to happen sooner or later, isn't
1:02
it? Why don't we just do it now?
1:04
Yeah, go ahead. Now, I do it.
1:08
Now, when you do it, nothing in the world, will stop me now.
1:13
Obvious great line. Possibly the ultimate Doctor Who
1:20
cliffhanger Well, there is a no, but there is 4 Min villain
1:26
staring off the camera, you know, and making a declaration
1:29
about Linda Baron in Enlightenment.
1:31
Oh yeah. Edward peel when dragon fire.
1:35
Yeah. So, if I ever turn to
1:36
supervillain, the are Tyrone. But that, okay, we're here for
1:42
underwater - episode 3, I think, this is where a lot of the
1:49
criticism for this story comes from. because it is a very, very
1:54
silly this episode Yeah, but I love it because it's so silly.
2:00
I think that was kind of my question.
2:01
Do you mind Doctor Who being harshly Daft.
2:06
I think I might have resented it at some points, but now I don't,
2:13
I don't mind at all that. It's silly.
2:16
I like it when it does serious things well, which it does quite
2:21
often, but I also love the bunkers nice of it.
2:24
But in one of my favorite early, early episodes is the way.
2:27
Planet which is completely nuts. But I just love the commitment
2:32
of everybody involved and the idea that everything including
2:38
the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and let's just see what
2:42
happens. And that was what happened you
2:45
like similarly on board with sort of the pantomime nature
2:49
things like horns and I'm on time and the Rani stories are
2:53
that Yeah, I think so. I mean the horns of 91 I did
2:58
find. I don't like quite as much.
3:02
I think because I feel like it's sort of didn't exactly drag but
3:07
it just wait on Corridor wandering in that, isn't it?
3:10
Yeah and also the the anagrams were driving me crackers after
3:15
the first two or three but that's enough.
3:18
We know the ancient Greece get on with it.
3:21
Dry the point 0. Although you say you seen some
3:24
ballet ever seen any ballet dancers tiptoeing around not the
3:28
Neumann no. But in Follow you of Midsummer
3:32
Night's Dream, the actor, the dancer who plays bottom, the
3:36
Weaver turns into a donkey and actual turns, rather than just
3:41
the acetate he has Hooves, and he dances on point.
3:44
Wow, inspiration. I don't know if you guys know
3:50
this disco certainly. All right, well let's see if
3:54
this is as good stroke bad as everybody says, if your would
4:00
count as in okay, in 5 4 3 2 1 How would you categorize this
4:10
story? But you know you can categorize
4:12
that historical, modern-day science fiction, comedy drama.
4:19
I suppose it's a kind of fantasy in a way it does.
4:25
Have obviously science fiction elements because they talk about
4:29
nuclear power stations, drilling holes in the center of the world
4:32
that kind of thing. Then you've got the Lost sort of
4:36
the lost continent of Atlantis. Fantasies in it as well.
4:41
I don't, I don't know. Really, you know what?
4:43
I call it, I call it a B-movie, it's the old.
4:47
Yeah, oh yeah, the movie isn't it?
4:51
And I've got my shelf, you know. So I've got a form of watching
4:54
them. You can just see the extras.
4:57
It's like, oh God wetsuits again but better wearing that seaweed.
5:03
Yeah, this is true. But then the Army laughter and
5:06
yeah. So this is, this is the episode
5:09
where they try and take their of down in various ways that they
5:15
try. Yeah, he's helping him.
5:16
They try bringing him down, like politically by going to the
5:19
King, which hasn't worked. No.
5:22
Because he's just so fabulous, so phenomenal.
5:26
Nobody can take him down. Only the sinking of Atlantis.
5:29
Can take him down. Yeah, I do.
5:35
Do you imagine is another dogs who Villain with an ego as big
5:39
as professors are off. Davros may be on par, maybe I'm
5:48
Paul, are we? In terms of destructiveness,
5:52
whatever the cost And yet davros, despite that terrifying,
5:59
mask, its a little more under play.
6:02
Yes, but I mean, I don't get it like, zeref Went to went to
6:09
Atlantis and Just Right? Alright guys, I'm going to raise
6:14
up Atlantis. You know what you wanted to do?
6:18
He wanted to do his, whatever he was up to scientifically didn't
6:22
eat. And so he says they said, well,
6:24
what will Give us to let you do this.
6:26
And he said well how about I Rose Atlantis?
6:28
And why would they want that to happen?
6:31
Like they're in quite a nice position right now?
6:34
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe perhaps the air will run
6:36
out at some point. I'm sure how you feel about the
6:40
world right now is pretty terrifying place.
6:42
If I could go and underground own little environment, I'll be
6:48
quiet little kids there. Yeah.
6:51
It's quite a nice little touch. What is occurring here?
6:57
Oh it's a sacrifice. Yes.
7:00
The doctor the doctor and Rama are about to have their heads
7:03
cut off potentially. I can't help but notice there's
7:07
some pretty Fierce looking flavors in that set.
7:10
Yeah we will see fire Crews on standby.
7:15
This is so funny, this whole sequence, I think it's hilarious
7:20
with the voice cabooses. The voice of album do what he
7:27
says, put your heads down. Yes, don't look.
7:30
Don't look everyone, trout. It's like tiptoeing along.
7:33
Yes, we do that voice. He says quite audibly.
7:37
Yeah, it's great. Isn't it?
7:39
I mean, this is farce, isn't it? Now this Bees.
7:44
But on the other hand it's also like how they like Davis says
7:49
the in how they got into that position was that they were
7:55
weren't sort of Savvy enough to work out.
7:58
That Zaroff was nuts. Because he's Justin, he's they
8:05
were blinded by their. Adherence to the religion.
8:09
Oh, that's what he used. Wasn't it, that's right.
8:13
Yeah, I think they say that later on.
8:15
So, is there a moiled criticism of religion in this then
8:21
probably not? No, I mean, it could be sort of
8:24
slightly culturally uncomfortable, I suppose.
8:27
I mean, this is Takin a piss. I bet by suggesting, you know,
8:30
I'll put your heads down, they've gone.
8:32
Oh my God, great miracle, you know.
8:37
And that is a big guy lately. She says to him, doesn't it as
8:40
well when they're all laughing at him, he's gonna know.
8:41
It was a miracle, you know. I'm do spoke to us.
8:47
I don't know. I'm not sure there's that level
8:52
of socio-religious commentary. I don't think so.
8:56
I think it's supposed to be the relatively uncultivated
9:02
superstitious society and and the mad scientist but sorry.
9:09
I realize I'm trying to unpick serous mad through this.
9:14
Please help me. Does he know he's going to die
9:18
though because of the world like up.
9:20
He'll be dead as well. He doesn't care.
9:22
Oh okay because he'll be known. He's one of these people who
9:26
imagines that he imagines. I think that he will be that his
9:30
name will be known in history as the man who blew up the world,
9:34
but every know we'll have to ride that story.
9:35
This is true. But you know, whoever said mad
9:38
scientist will reasonable. Maybe some a boy out into space.
9:41
Just say it was me, professors are off.
9:46
Is it that's that's what crowning achievement to be the
9:50
scientist who's capable of exploding Planet Lucy.
9:54
I can't help but notice he's got a massive fish on his head
9:57
Lola's. He's this is true weird thing
10:01
about putting people in mother what guardian and the black
10:03
garden with a bunch of dead. Birds on their head, yet the
10:07
black Guardian. Do still managed to be deeply
10:10
frightening even though he had a burden.
10:12
This is Valentine dial that thing where you came. sleeping
10:17
look pretty and he's like prey to add though that you're right.
10:29
It's the thing is, he's used the religion but now he's finding
10:33
that it's getting away from him and what's fabulous is lowland?
10:37
Clearly despises? Yes.
10:40
Doesn't it is that? It is always space, guys?
10:43
Yeah, Denise. He's saying that.
10:46
So the professor used used the religion as Was it is useful to
10:54
him but now somebody saying oh it's a miracle and he's going
10:56
know, they've got way know. It's a miracle.
10:58
You so like you know he's a smart.
11:03
Okay. He's darker but it's not because
11:05
he's using the politics with the key.
11:07
Oh yeah. Using the religion with one of
11:09
them you know. He's got the scientists on side.
11:13
Yeah. So I'm wondering if he was
11:15
always. Yeah.
11:16
Wonder if he came in a bit Charming, you know, and a bit
11:19
less? Yes.
11:22
I bet there's saw Brian blessed. Start off with lover.
11:27
Fantastic turn in Doctor Who. And that may be, where I blessed
11:30
is with all the one tourney Doctor Who there's a bit more
11:32
over the top of this. Well, Brian blessed Union in
11:35
almost anything Always wonderful.
11:40
I think it's a nice visual as well.
11:42
Troughton Polly been? And Jamie, it's just a lot of
11:46
pretty people really aren't. So by all accounts, has he done.
11:49
Travel was very Charming. I think he had two wives, you
11:52
know into families. Yeah, ya did.
11:54
I'm free? Sure.
11:57
Yeah. I mean he had a yes complicated
12:01
offstage relationship but you can't because he's because he's
12:05
the doctor in this when he wasn't being the doctor he was
12:09
very very Very good looking. Yeah.
12:12
But he's turned himself sort of with the haircut and from the
12:16
ins because he acts from the inside out, he's turned himself
12:18
into this sort of impish little German enemy of the whale.
12:22
When he's talking about his hair over, he's in a tight sweater.
12:26
Yes. Ice is a little darker.
12:28
It's different bloke. Yeah, what he is because he's
12:32
that good. He turned, he changes his
12:34
character from the inside out. We've got to talk about this
12:37
Marketplace. I mean, one of our smokes
12:43
Sanaya, I love the fact that they put in this tiny little
12:48
spring spitting out this pathetic jet of water.
12:52
Just yeah, impression there on the water.
12:59
It's trout. Supposed to be like a gypsy
13:00
there. I think he's meant to be a, he's
13:03
got dark glasses on, so, potentially he could be sort of
13:06
a blind blinded, visually impaired.
13:12
Sailor Boom who can't work down the mines and he's there for
13:16
begging or busking. Kind of say that Paul wasn't
13:19
behind. What is she wearing?
13:21
I thought rethinking her life. Choice is like John toothbrush.
13:29
It's very old but you laughing me.
13:32
Shall dresses are quite Yeah, it's like shells at the top and
13:38
seaweed at the bottom for the school.
13:42
I saw an episode of Tower with the other day, don't judge me,
13:45
but they went to a like a pool party and a couple people
13:47
dressed up a bit like this, right?
13:50
The Fashions are still around today.
13:54
I do Wonder though with this, I'll actually is quite an
13:57
impressive. Joe what coming out to be fair,
14:01
it's not the space. Is there to make this thriving
14:04
Marketplace know? It's a bit kind of, you don't
14:07
get the sense of there being space of but you can't because
14:12
they're quite close in. You can't get away from you.
14:14
Can't sort of not like the temple that feels bigger because
14:17
you feel like you're further back it with this you feel like
14:20
you're right close to it and that there is much before.
14:24
What I Appreciate is that they have gone to the effort to do
14:27
all these different sets. And in a bit, we get that vast
14:30
space where, you know, the fish people have a little bougie
14:35
underwater So the I like the lots of the different locations
14:41
makes you feel like it is? Yeah, that's what they're aiming
14:46
for. We presume these to give a sense
14:49
of a, an actual Community, but you've watched enough Doctor
14:53
Who, you know, things like time. Flight time lash are though,
14:57
they don't go to as much effort there.
14:59
No. And there's also with this with
15:01
this sort of marketplace in. You've got kids running around,
15:04
there's older people, there's presumably sort of semi fish.
15:08
In the, in the seats, you can see the zipper up the back.
15:10
I love this bit between Ben and the doctor.
15:15
Oh, doesn't he say, he says back that coat baggy.
15:18
Trousers bowtie. Exactly.
15:19
No. As a matter of fact, I haven't
15:24
crazies laughing. Yeah, I'll figure out some
15:27
pretty active spilling into the TV show, you know, I think so.
15:31
I think I wouldn't be at all surprised if he made some of
15:33
that up you remember the resolution to that Cliffhanger
15:36
in? Sees the deaf where trout and
15:39
comes through the door and he's covered in bubbles.
15:41
Wendy pepper, laughter it off. She just can't stop herself.
15:45
You father, this is a great straight away.
15:48
Boom goes for but the doctor will yank normal, isn't he?
15:51
No, and the dog. We'll have to see.
15:56
Sneaky Power Station. What?
15:57
In those trousers, he goes, well done Ben.
16:02
I'm not sure about the date normal bit though.
16:07
So yeah I do think that about all Doctor Who as well is even
16:11
if the story is a bit loud, there's always like Charming
16:14
moments, yeah. I mean, it's a bit in this
16:17
episode where they're off those. I need to be in the order of
16:23
your goodness. You know?
16:25
And then ends up strangling, this pork like today?
16:28
Yeah, well you deserve it being so naive, right?
16:36
There's a couple of times you remarkable Rowdy when when the
16:39
Ronnie starts choking and then they knock Perry out.
16:45
Well, there you go. He's just puffed.
16:48
Zaroff with his pipe. Jets are off shouting
16:54
indistinctly. Right.
16:58
Okay yes. What's happening now then.
17:02
Ok. So Sean and Jaco have been sent
17:07
by the doctor to persuade the fish people to not gather food
17:13
for the human inhabitants of humanoid inhabitants of
17:18
Atlantis, but only for themselves because the food
17:22
can't be stored because they're off hasn't invented the fridge.
17:26
So if the food isn't storable, they will the people will get
17:31
hungry very quickly because it doesn't keep Yeah, which does
17:36
have an effect slightly because later on there's he gets in
17:44
touch with one of the power stations and they say
17:47
everybody's gone to look for food.
17:49
That's right. Yeah do it.
17:51
Does it does have a slightly flexible?
17:54
You can write an academic paper on the okay.
18:00
Yeah. Okay.
18:01
Thank you for that. And as a All the fish people fly
18:06
about Under the Sea. Going with gesturing
18:10
emphatically, don't work something like that.
18:14
Yes, communication takes place and are you much of a fan of
18:19
classical music? Yes.
18:22
How would you rate the kazoo music of the dance of the fish
18:25
people? I like it.
18:27
I think it's nuts because I assume it's synthesized.
18:31
Kazoos are not actual presumes, I don't know.
18:34
Electronic. Isn't it?
18:35
Yeah, but it's supposed to be. I suppose, it's meant to be
18:38
like, I don't know, dolphin clicks or something like that
18:41
when they talking to each other like you could mock this.
18:46
Yeah. So obviously the fish people are
18:48
flying about now and this is expensive, why?
18:53
Our work is not cheap. These vast sets in Ealing on
18:56
cheap and they've done something.
18:58
You see the bubbles there? Mmm.
19:00
How they done that? I don't know, I was asking a lot
19:04
and he was saying maybe they put like a screen in from could be
19:09
so and that was like a TV screen in front to show in the bubbles.
19:12
I lost. I don't know.
19:13
But it looks it looks like they're on the water.
19:16
That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. well, I have you seen Tom
19:22
Lash but when he's down the time lash and it yeah, tinsel
19:25
snorting hexagons, that sounded like he's in a crunch on Time
19:29
Tunnel, does it you That woman sitting there on the ocean bed
19:36
sturdy. She's like fanning herself.
19:39
Yeah, I don't know. You can occasionally see the
19:43
wires? Yes, that's a shame.
19:47
It is but then you know, you know, there there anyway.
19:50
So why would you need to find yourself under water?
19:57
I've, no idea. I mean, we live in an age where
20:01
a sponge cooked burgers and lives in a pineapple.
20:04
So, what under the seat? That's absolutely the world.
20:07
I want to live in, you know, SquarePants world, did you?
20:12
Right? When she went down there then
20:13
and said stop working. Yeah, that woman just
20:16
immediately went to sleep. She put her head down and show.
20:19
If someone came to my work and said Joe with not working today,
20:22
that's exactly what I would do. So it's very rich and you have
20:27
you noticed how that look, they've got like foliage
20:29
drifting. Yes, Why people think I'm mad
20:37
examining like how visually Sumptuous that?
20:40
It's but I really think it looks good.
20:43
Hmm. Without, you know, I'm not
20:45
taking the piss. Okay.
20:50
So off is convinced now that his plan is going to work with a
20:54
salute. Lee is there?
20:55
This will matter for any of us. So hang on the doctor goes off.
21:03
Now they just need to speak 2002.
21:06
No, no, that's already happened. I'm getting it.
21:10
But what does Doctor goes off in a second?
21:12
Why is that? I remember Because he's left
21:17
with Polly and the priest isn't he?
21:19
Yes, he is. Who's his ruse?
21:23
Yeah. How is it to get medical help?
21:26
Yes, it might be just because Jamie says he's putting it on
21:29
and actually, he is okay. Of course, yes.
21:33
Yeah. Inside that laboratory know
21:36
they're going to the been and they go to the lab so they can
21:43
make sure that he hasn't thought he was lying because he says the
21:47
process is already started. It will it will go on without me
21:51
and the doctor knows that he's Because his ego so big.
21:55
He won't start it. He'll want to start it himself
21:58
but they going to make sure that he wasn't that he wasn't telling
22:02
the drink. I've got the measure of him
22:03
because they're absolutely right.
22:04
There's no one else going to push that button but so
22:06
absolutely not. But the doctors just wants to be
22:09
wants to be careful that it takes some effort, but even when
22:12
you're slumped against the wall you'll still delivering this
22:15
amount of ham. Yes, unconscious hand.
22:22
I bet first copy. Script.
22:24
Right? I was like, oh yes, you know,
22:26
I've been playing these all these scientific henchmen have
22:29
borne rolls. Its much arms is always great.
22:35
I can't believe this ruse Lucy, allow me to be close to your
22:39
aura. Come close to me.
22:47
Okay, I'm gonna, because he's in episode 3.
22:50
And like I said, I think episode 3 is, Perhaps justifiably the
22:55
episode that people can't tolerate.
22:58
Do you think there's that's Justified that reaction is
23:02
justified by saying actually tell what this is just absurd.
23:05
Like, I, it does go a bit weird, doesn't it?
23:09
I mean, weirder in terms of sort of plot definition, because yes,
23:15
we've got Zaroff feigning Illness.
23:18
But then we've got Jamie and Ben, and the doctor all, go off
23:22
together. And then, You've got zero off
23:24
with Polly and Jamie chasing them and and so it seems to kind
23:28
of it all. It's almost like even though
23:31
it's it's very tense and there's a lot happening somehow, it
23:36
feels like there isn't You see what I mean?
23:39
It's just kind of it feels like, oh, he's going off there and
23:43
they're going off there and then it all kind of almost as if it's
23:47
sags pit. This is like potentially one of
23:49
the greatest threats we've faced so far because this is the
23:52
destruction of the entire Earth. And we haven't a lot this point.
23:55
No, but there's such an a reverence for this story that I
23:59
see what you're saying. Yeah.
24:00
It's like it's hard to take it, seriously.
24:02
It's not, it's sort of how they kidnapped him and then It's yeah
24:09
it's sort of odd things happening one after another.
24:13
And there's like just saying there was two moments where next
24:17
together, they're very jarring, he stabbed the high priest with
24:21
yes. Yeah.
24:22
Which you see kind of? Yeah.
24:24
Shaking. So you know, that's inside him.
24:27
Yeah. Wobbling like that.
24:29
And then it cuts to the scene with them coming up with a fist
24:31
Mark fish most on beyond the yeah straight from horror to
24:34
Comedy. Which is a cam worked but I
24:41
don't think it works there. Yeah.
24:43
I think it just gives us it sort of feels a bit as if there's
24:47
almost as if there's bits missing which there aren't.
24:50
But almost as if there should be a bit more products are off
24:53
should have been kidnapped, should have been captive for a
24:56
little bit longer or just I feel like with a Bond film which they
25:03
are frequently absurd until Daniel, Craig comes along and
25:07
then there's Timmy tee, don't very seriously sorry would you
25:10
say Timothy don't? Oh yeah okay all right I'll give
25:15
you that but there's a tone to Bond films and it's totally
25:20
consistent is quite there. Tony's kind of silly and you
25:25
lean into it. This has moments where you know
25:27
Polly has been threatened with a hypodermic might need or think
25:30
that, you know, it's It's a weird mix.
25:35
Mmm. And yet It's oddly in chanting.
25:38
Yes. What's the current?
25:46
So Damon is telling is telling the king that the fish people
25:51
have revolted. And and the King saying, okay,
25:55
well, I'll listen to their grievances.
25:58
Did you ever hear the story of the kind of Baker told when he
26:01
played the character in Don Quick?
26:04
Did you ever hear about that? No.
26:06
Okay, so it was one of his very first rolls.
26:07
It was no cheap, old science fiction, show called Done Quick,
26:10
and he was was on a planet where people were currency, right?
26:15
So you paid for these With people, and he was one of the
26:18
slaves of was currency and they revolt.
26:22
And he had one line where he just went, we are revolting and
26:26
he was like, can I say, we are rebelling.
26:31
The director said to her. No solace in the script.
26:35
My lord. The Peasants are revolting.
26:36
Yes, it's a great story though. Oh no.
26:43
Takes are off to the temple. Whoops, you signed your death
26:46
warrant now. Yep, house.
26:49
What can I do it? My fool.
26:52
You are a fool. I should send you back to your
26:55
beloved. God, I'm do you demand your
26:59
demands? So sorry, people being very
27:04
indulgent. What is it says, it'll be
27:08
fitting that the great vows offers himself as a sacrifice.
27:11
No, I shall offer him. Bang, bang, ready, 3 2, 1.
27:26
Nothing in the world. Can stop it.
27:38
Oh, I love that line. You know, I I like how these
27:42
credits, scroll, nice and gently as well.
27:45
Let's see everybody's names, yes, which is how fast I go
27:49
these days, I know, right. And then they get squashed in
27:51
the corner of the screen because there's a trailer for something
27:54
else. You never knows in, what do ya?
27:56
Hmm. Well, there wasn't this
27:58
actually, like a thing that went round.
28:00
Probably. Yes, please.
28:02
Back in the day, only see that was a delightful episode.
28:07
I've got to say that it does not deserve its reputation in the
28:09
gutter. But the last episode, we're
28:14
turning a corner, it's all very different genre, we're heading
28:18
down, mythmakers Route into tragedy.
28:20
Hmm. Do you imagine anyone in
28:22
Atlantis is going to get our live.
28:25
I hope so me too. We should we find out.
28:30
Yes.