Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 995: Top Hunt and Fish Conservation Issues to Watch in 2026 with Chris Borgatti and Devin O’Dea

Transcript

Ep. 995: Top Hunt and Fish Conservation Issues to Watch in 2026 with Chris Borgatti and Devin O’Dea · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: on the show, we are discussing the top conservation issues
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: relevant to hunters and anglers to keep an eye on
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, and I'm joined by Devin Od
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: and Chris Burgotti of backcountry Hunters and Anglers. All right,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, and welcome to.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: The new year.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: It should be January first, I believe, or right around
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: that when this.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Podcast first drops.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: So happy new year, Welcome to twenty twenty six, and
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: today's conversation is going to be all about looking forward
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: into this new year and some of the key issues,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: challenges and opportunities that we should be aware of and
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: keeping an eye on related to hunting and fishing and
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: wildlife and wild places, the things that we need to
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: keep doing, the things that we love. What do we
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: need to keep tabs on, what do we need to
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: be engaging in? There was so much going on in
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, there were so many headlines, there were
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: so many social media posts and podcasts and on and
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: on and on. Right, you were inundated by it. I
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: was inundated by it. What's the new year going to
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: look like? That's what I want to discuss today and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: kind of do it in a little bit more of
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: a general way. Our two guests today come from back
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: country hunters and anglers. They are the Western Policy and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Conservation Manager and the Eastern Policy and Conservation Manager for
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: back country hunters and anglers. On the western end is
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Devin Ode. On the eastern side is Chris Borgotti. And
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: you know, rather than working in Washington, d C. They are,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: prayer primarily working at the local level, on the state level,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: working with fishing game commissions and agencies and state houses.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: And legislatures and all that kind of stuff.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And then of course with the grassroots membership spread out
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: across the nation.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: And so I've reached out to them and just asked
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: them to come.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: To the table today with with some high level sets
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: of kind of issues or or key focus areas when
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: it comes to what might be in store for twenty
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: twenty six, what we as hunters and anglers can influence
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six. So we're not going to be
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: talking about like some specific mine or some specific piece
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of legislation that we need to fight against or support.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: This is a little bit more general we speak about.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of stealing a little bit of the thunder here,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: but I'm going to tell you what the four main
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: categories are that we're going to get into. We're going
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: to discuss key things to understand about conservation funding in
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, key things to understand about public land management,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: key things on the access to lands and waters, and
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: then finally some interesting things going on related to wildlife crossings,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: fish crossings, connecting wildlife habitat of all types. Those are
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the four kind of overarching categories that we're going to discuss.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Chris and Devin help us do that.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And a really important thing that I think we discuss here,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and that's I think hopefully going to be continued to
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: address throughout this entire year and year after year after year,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: is not just what's going on there, but really what
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: can we do? How do we, as an average everyday
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: American hunter and angler actually influence change?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: How do we impact things?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: How do we make sure we are educated enough to
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: take action and know what to do that leads to
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: healthy wildlife populations, healthy fish populations, access to healthy accessible
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: public lands or quality private lands, having the opportunities to
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: go out there and do these things that we love
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: so much. That's a big part of what we discussed too,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: is how do you actually influence change?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: How do you.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Actually engage with your state agency, or your senator's office,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: or your state representative, your national forest planning committee, whatever
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: it is. We discussed that. I think it's really important.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I think it will be useful, and that is how
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I want us to kick off this new year, is
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: thinking about how we can make things better.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Because we all have that opportunity.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: We all can make a difference, but it does take
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: us choosing to do so and then putting in that
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: work to make it happen. So I'm very excited that
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six is here, that we get to kick
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: things off in this kind of way. I'm excited that
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: you are here with us. I appreciate it. So without
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: any further ado, let's get to my chat with Chris
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Borgatti and Devin Ode from backcountry Hunters and Anglers.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: All right with me.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Now on the line is Devin od and Chris Borgatti
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: of BHA.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, gentlemen, Thanks for.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Having us appreciate it.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. I'm excited because when
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: this episode drops, it will be the new year. It
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: will be twenty twenty six, the first day of the
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: new year is the scheduled date for this to go live.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And we've just come off of a pretty crazy twelve months,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: pretty tumultuous, pretty headline grabbing year. When it comes to
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the things that the three of us care about, I
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: think most of our listeners too, wildlife, wild places, hunting
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: and fishing opportunities and access public lands, all the above.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: How are you guys personally feeling coming off of a
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: year like this? You know, maybe you can kick us off, Chris.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I gotta believe that working in the conservation sector, working
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: in this line of business has been a wild ride.
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: It definitely has to be. If it wasn't for the
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: fact that the hunting season eventually did come around, I
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: would be completely spent and exhausted because I was pretty
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: much there when when September hit. So to get back
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: in the woods, to get up in a tree to
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: get you know, the duck boat situated. All of those
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: things was the sort of you know, hey, this is
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: what this is why you do this, this is why
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: we've been going at a frenetic pace since January. And
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: you know it came at the right time. I'll say
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: it that way.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what about you devon?
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: You know, I think an important disclaimer here is Chris
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: and I just both got off of our back country
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: weeks last week. So BHA is a policy where you
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: get an extra week of PTO as long as you
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: use it for hunting fishing five days in a row.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: So that's pretty great.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: We both, you know, are coming off that one. So
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: i'd say with riding high, you know, also spending some
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: time in a tree shooting some ducks. And you know,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: if it wasn't for that, if you'd asked me a
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: week prior, I probably would have, you know, not had
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: the same bright outlook or or been as cheery after
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: getting revamped from public lands. But yeays, it was quite
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: you know, I would say tumultuous, just overwhelming of times.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: But you know, I think when you get a chance
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: to get back out and realize why you're doing it,
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: and the importance of it all. It kind of quickly
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: fades away and gets you recharge and reset for another year.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Thank goodness for the outside.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: It is the ultimate rejuvenator, no doubt about that. So
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: when you look forward to twenty twenty six, do you
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: have a sense do you have any kind of prediction
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: is this going to be a repeat of twenty twenty
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: five with all the things we've just discussed, or do
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: you sense that maybe things will settle down and that
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: you guys will be able to get some sleep again
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and the rest of us can kick back and get
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: bat and sassy again. What are you What do you
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: think on that front?
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Devin?
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's possible to repeat this year, you know.
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: I think it's it's gonna look a lot different next year.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: You know, I think things will will settle in a
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: little bit politically, you know, at the state level, it's
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: always it's always kind of a crapshoot that that stuff
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: seems to just kind of pop up all over the place,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: and there's just so many different bills to wade through.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: But you know, I would say we're gonna we're gonna
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: likely see some of the same themes but maybe some
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: of those themes sort of evolving understanding, you know how
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: things like you know, the big elephant in the room,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: the public land sales from this summer, and BHA is
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: you know, united, we stand campaign United, we stand for
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: public lands. I think we're gonna see BHA is definitely
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: going to keep moving that forward. We're gonna double down there.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: But I don't think we're going to see another senator
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: ly attempt to sell three million acres during budget reconciliation.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: That being said, I think that will evolve, and it'll
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: be popping up in different areas in different ways potentially
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: with you know, looking at land transfers or looking at
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: smaller parcels, you know, the resource management planning process. And
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: I think we're gonna we're gonna see maybe not on
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: the same type of broad scale, but similar threats and
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: really important areas for hunters and anglers to stay engaged
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: in in the political process.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, And what about you, Chris, on your on your
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: side there, what are you sense coming down the line?
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Well, there are some things that aren't settled yet that
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: we really you know, had some serious call to actions
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: on last year that you know, the administration will be
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: sort of finalizing their position after sorting through public comment
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: and things like that. So we're going to be dealing
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: with some of that stuff again. So that's not completely
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: settled for sure. But I will say that the silver lining,
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: at least at the state level often that we've seen
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: in a bunch of different places is that state legislatures
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: and state officials they kind of want to push back
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: a little bit on some of the the more sort
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: of things we've kind of lost, or at least the
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: feeling of having lost control of certain things. So that said,
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: I think there's a willingness to sort of tackle tough
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: issues at the at the local level, and we saw
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: some of that last year, and I think we'll continue
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: to see that, uh in this in this new year
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: as well, So that in that respect, I think we're
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: gonna have some good opportunities to to to make some
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: really positive impacts at the at the state level.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's encouraging, and maybe that's a perfect place for
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: us to to kind of jump to next, which is,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: you know, some specifics. What I really wanted to hopefully
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: cover here is is specific either threats coming in the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: next year or opportunities coming the next year that hunters
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: and anglers should be watching for, should be paying attention to,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: should be ready to take action on, because I think
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: one of the most important, well one of the greatest
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: overarching I think threats or challenges that we face is
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: is just people who care about wildlife and wild places
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: and these opportunities and these resources. Is the perpetual looming
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: cloud of bad stuff going on and we as individuals
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: feeling like we don't have any power or any influence
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: over them. Right, There's that There's always this threat of
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: that kind of feeling of apathy or helplessness to seep in.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: But the antidote to that, I think is always action.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: It's like, what can I do? How can I somehow
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: be involved? How can I do a little bit today
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: or next month or or anything like that. That seems
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: to be like this little bit of magic that if
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: you can access that it can change, you know, not
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: only change things on the ground, but just change things
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: like in your head. At least personally, I found that
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: to be the case. So what I'm really hoping we
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: can achieve here is is to understand what's coming, but
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: then also understand now what, like what does that mean
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: for me listening, how do I do something about one
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: of these things or four of these things or whatever
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it is, So to kind of preview where I'm hoping
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: we can go. That's kind of how I want to
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: approach all this. So when I say all that, Chris,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and maybe we can kind of go back and forth.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I might just kind of pitch it to you, Chris
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: and the new Devin, and we can kind of go
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: back and forth and each of you can share with
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: me in us a handful of those top issues or
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: opportunities coming down the line that are top of mind
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: for you, and then that should be top of mind
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: for just hunters and anglers across the nation. So, Chris,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: what's the first thing that you would say that we
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: need to be ready for, watching for and paying attention to.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: I think one that really provides is sort of a
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: something we have to pay attention to, but it's also
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: a real opportunity is related to conservation funding. And I
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: say that's a pretty high level. So I'm talking about
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: conservation funding at sort of the just overall state level
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: in terms of what might be used for land management
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: or land acquisition, but also for state fishing game agencies.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: A lot of state fishing game agencies are really in
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: a tight spot in terms of budgeting and there's a
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: lot of opportunities there that you know, we as hunters
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: and anglers, as the main constituents for these for these agencies,
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: have to really kind of step up and be a
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: constructive voice around. Sometimes it comes in the form of
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: changes and license fees. There's a lot of there's a
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: lot of state agencies that haven't reckoned with that change
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: in many many years. Others are trying to find new
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: and different avenues to create new funding streams. The one
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: thing we have to keep in mind is, I think,
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: is the fact that just operating costs have steadily increased
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: for state agencies. Pensions or health insurance, all of these
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: things that they have to provide for their employees, like
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: those have increased dramatically over the years. And that's just
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: that's just the like keep the doors open kind of costs, right,
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: that's not even like money on the ground putting people
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: where they need to be, managing wildlife habitat all of
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: these things. So I think that is a really big
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: issue from the agency level to the state level, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: there are some connectivity. There is some connectivity to federal
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: funding and and and I think a lot of the
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: states are just trying to find ways to be to
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: sort of ride any future inconsistencies and funding streams. So
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: it's a good opportunity there. And there are some creative
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: ways that are being proposed, some kind of controversial, like
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: for the you know, like in the for instance, having
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: like access fees paid for uh, non hunting and angling
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: members of the community to access state lands, for instance,
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: Whereas there are other sort of less controversial ones where uh,
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: we've got these data centers, for instance, popping up all
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: over the country. Could there be a nexus found in
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: terms of conservation and like a small tax leviedon energy
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: use or land area use that that could be generated
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: from these for these data center operators. And there's a
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: there's a couple efforts around the country to do just that.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: So there are opportunities, but again it's going to take
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: our community being engaged in understanding the challenges the state
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: state agencies are are facing.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: If you guess heard, if either one of you heard,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: if there's any movement on recovering America's Wildlife Act, if
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: that's something that's going to get reintroduced and I've heard
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: rumors of it, I've heard talk that they want to,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: but do we have any sense of where that actually
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: stands right now? And for folks that aren't familiar, could
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: could one of you explain what that is and what
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that could do if it ever passed.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: I'm I want to say that a couple of months ago.
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: I kind of a colleague or a partner mentioned that
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: they thought RABA Recovering America's Wild went Back still had
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: you know, a really strong chance and was something that
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: you know, they really wanted to put resources into, and
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: that was something that gave me optimism.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: You know that there is there is very much hope
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: there for that particular legislation. You know, Chris and I
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: both work more on the state level, so we're not
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: you know, we're one step removed from what's happening, you know,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: in DC, and and you know kind of where where
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: a lot of those conversations are on reintroduction and how
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: people are sort of posturing there. But you know, I'd
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: say we're definitely optimistic. It's a really critical bill that
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: you know, directs a significant amount of funding to state
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: and tribes, state agencies tribes to basically keep endangered species
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: kind of out of the emergency room, and so you've
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: got you know, threatening endangered species and that is a
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: big part of that funding. But there are so many
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: layers there to conservation benefits in rawa that impact fish
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: and game species that we all pursue that are just
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: critical and so you know, making sure that we're allocating
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: those resources and the right way to promote habitat and
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: can serve you know, just kind of like these broader ecosystems.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: We understands as hunters that that's you know, critical for
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: maintaining those game populations that we rely on.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if if if the agencies have to sync
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: money into endangered species work, that's those are dollars that
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: are not going towards you know, fishing game maybe that
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: we would hope they're spending more active time restoring for
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: the for the things we're particularly interested in too. So uh, yeah,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: it seems like if that could ever pass, that would
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: be a massive funding boost for these agencies to do
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: important stuff that helps. You know, whether you like butterflies
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: or big whitetail bucks, it's gonna it's gonna be a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: good thing.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Chris.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: To your point, though, one thing I'm curious, like when
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: it comes to state budgets and the funding that you
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: know that Michigan gets or Massachusetts gets, you know, where
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: does where do we come in? What's the opportunity you
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: mentioned there's a little bit of an opportunity there. I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: honestly don't really know how how.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Would I do that?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: How might I be able to to to influence that
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: side of things in my home state?
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: Sure, so every state has a slightly different budget process, UH,
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: but typically the governor is going to have their sort
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: of version of the budget and that's oftentimes a place
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: where you know, the public can engage. So like for instance,
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: like let me, I'll give you a local situation example,
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: there is an instance where UH state agency might give licenses,
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: free licenses to senior citizens or to people with certain
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: physical handicaps or something along those lines. When they give
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: those free licenses, those are of course coming out of
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: the budget of the state agency. They can't count on
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: those the money that would be generated from those licenses.
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: So there are some efforts in some states to go
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: to the state legislature or to go to the governor
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: and ask hey, can we get compensated for these licenses?
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: It's going to be maybe up to upwards of a
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: million dollars depending on the population, maybe even even more.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: And so having having sort of pressure from the hunting
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: and fishing community to sort of say, hey, can you
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: governor can you reimburse these licenses or fully fund this
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: land acquisition fund or set aside a budget like is
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: the case in a situation in Ohio right now set
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: aside a certain chunk of money to allow for a
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: very large land acquisition that is on the table right now,
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: so the public can engage in that process and pressure,
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: you know, pressure the governor's office, pressure state lawmakers to
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: to sort of prioritize issues that are important to us.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: And yeah, it's not as it's not as sexy or
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: it might not be as like motivational in terms of
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: like the charge to take action as like a threatening
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: issue or piece of ledge that might take away certain opportunities,
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: for instance, but it's an important step in the process.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So one thing that I've always been kind of, i
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: don't know, surprised by or disappointed and has been. And
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: maybe this is just what I see in my lone
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: little world. So maybe this isn't the case everywhere, but
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: it seems like any time I see Michigan any talk
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: in my state or some of the other states have
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: spent time, and when they start talking about raising license costs,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: people just throw an absolute fit and get so upset
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: and say, how dare you raise my license from ten
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: dollars to fifteen dollars or twenty bucks to twenty three
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: bucks or whatever it might be. And I've always thought, like, gosh,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: like this is it's a bargain as it is, whether
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: you're paying ten bucks for a hunting license or fifty
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: bucks for a hunting license or one hundred and fifty
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: bucks for a hunting license. What we get to do
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: out there, the protein we get to bring home, the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: experience we get to have. I mean, I would pay
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of money for that, and then it goes
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to such an amazing cause, it goes to perpetuating these
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: things that we care so much about. Again, I would
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: donate a lot of money to make sure that's the case.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And I know there's a lot of other people who
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: love these things just as much as we do. Why
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: do people get in such a hissy fit about a
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: ten dollars fee increase or thirty dollars fee increase or
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: whatever it is. Is that Am I just seeing that
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: uniquely or is that like every state everyone kind of
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: has that loud. I don't know if it's a minority
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: or majority or whatever it is. But is that changing?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Is that going to have to change to deal with
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: these budget issues?
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Chris?
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: Is not that it's not a unique situation. We hear
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: and feel and experience that everywhere, and I think in
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: part it is something that a lot of state agencies
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: have sort of showed that reality, unfortunately, and they did
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: that because of the separation between the state agency, or
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: at least more importantly, the people who work there and
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: the constituents. We've talked about that you and I have
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: talked about this before. You know you're working for Wildlife
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: Tour created this opportunity where a bunch of people got
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: to meet a large number of state employees who came
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: out on their day off, some of them were on
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: the clock and work side by side, And just the
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: humanization that occurred in that moment was huge because just
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: built relationships and when you recognize that these people are dedicated,
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: the vast majority of the people are dedicated civil servants
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: who aren't just serving the people of the state or
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: the commonwealth. But they're also serving the wildlife like professionally
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: and in many cases at a pretty significant sacrifice. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: when I think it's important and as I've come to
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: do this job and just work in so many different
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: states and meet so many different people, is so the
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: vast majority we have some great uh state employees. And
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: I think if people listened and understood and had that
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: better connection with their state agencies and what they're trying
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: to accomplish and the challenges that they face managing budgets,
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: managing the politics at the state house, I think they'd
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: have a they'd be a bit more understanding to the
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: need of of you know, of increases in small increases
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: or incremental increases and license fees, because to your point,
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: like we do have a we do get some pretty great,
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: like life altering experiences out of these opportunities.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I'd love to take a look at what the average
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: American spends a year on coffee or something like that,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: like would you be willing and maybe not coffee because
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: people need their coffee, but food or whatever. The amount
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: of money we spent on something trivial, it really doesn't
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: matter all that much. I'm sure, it outweighs what we
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: spent on hunting licenses by leaps and bounds, so we
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: could we can spend that money. If we can spend
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: that money on a Starbucks, we can certainly spend that
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: money on a deer hunting license or whatever it is
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: that the helps, you know, the thing we love more
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: than anything else continue. I don't know, Devin, do you
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: feel I'm sure you're feeling some of that out West too.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But I will say, you know, in New Mexico,
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: we had SP five last year moved through the state legislature,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: and that was a big bill that had a few
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: different angles to it, but one of them was a
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: significant increase in fees kind of across the board. It
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: had been over twenty years and the agency was really
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: like desperate at this point, you know, it had kind
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: of reached critical point where they had to do something.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: So this fee increase was I would say it's pretty
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: well received generally. I mean, I think you're always going
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: to have that contingent that is going to resist any
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: type of fee increase. But I think hunters recognize, like, Okay,
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: it's it's been the same for a very long time.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: There's no you know, staggering increase with inflation. Everything else
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: is going up, but my hunting fees have been the same.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: And so that bill was actually coupled with a commission
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: reform bill, and that's just like a whole another cant
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: worms quagmire. I think that, you know, we will probably
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: see more of next year general efforts to reform game commissions.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: But you know, I was, I was enthusiastic and optimistic
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: at the response in New Mexico regarding fees, and I
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: think we've seen I've seen in a couple instances there,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe a slightly more willingness to just understanding that, like,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: you know, this has got to happen one way or another,
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: and hunters just kind of with pride shouldering that burden.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: But it's certainly not everyone marching in that same direction.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: So I think there's a lot of education that that
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: comes in there as well.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, So so keeping the ball in your court, Devin,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: what might be the first issue or challenge or opportunity
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: that you'd like to bring up?
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to kind of devetail off of what
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: Chris said, and you know, I think the big one
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: that we're always looking at that I think when you
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: look at really what impacts hunting and fishing at a
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: grand scale, it's always you know, the encroaching development, industrialization, sprawl,
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: like these are these big broad themes, but you know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: when we're talking about how that impacts us, I think
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: just looking at you know, maybe a subset of that
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: conservation funding is related to connectivity and how that plays out.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: You know, there are there is funding at the federal level,
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: but you know, it kind of remains to be seen
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: what happens next year if we're going to have you know,
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: the Wildlife Crossings Pilot Program get you know, reauthorized, or
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: if we're going to get more funding for like fish
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: Passage and you know projects of that nature through like
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: Noah or Fish and Wildlife Service. And so I think
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: there's these federal big buckets of funding that we're going
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: to need to stay engaged and really be advocating kind
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: of across the board, across the nation for getting these
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: projects funded because they're just very easy wins that everyone
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: could should be able to agree on. I mean particular,
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: when we're talking about wildlife crossing projects, there's a great
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: public safety component. You can really relate this to people
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: that are not in the traditional hunting and fishing space,
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: and I think you can build super you know, really
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: large broad tents to accomplish these shared objectives. And you know,
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: I have worked on a wildlife crossing project in southern California,
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: the Eye eight Penins are Bighorn sheet crossing project, and
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: I will tell you there it is just a tremendous
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: amount of legwork to stand these things up, and it
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: starts at the state level. And so when we're talking
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: about that funding, we need to be making sure that
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: we're advocating for those budgets for these state agencies to
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: be able to do the on the groundwork, the callers,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: the data collection, because that is what informs these projects
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: and that those are like the major impediments to getting
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: these broader connectivity efforts funded. So just building on Chris's
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: point there, you know, when we're making those cases, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: I think the way we can make those cases is
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: just by building that relationship with your you know, representative
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: in your district, right because then they're going to take
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: that when it comes time to vote on the governor's budget,
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: they're going to hopefully be you know, sharing what they're
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: hearing from constituents, and so you know, how you engage
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: is at that ground level, making sure that you do
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: you have a relationship with your representative at the state
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: level and of course the federal level as well, but
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: making those you know, priorities clear from the beginning and
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: then emphasizing them throughout the process. Stopping on the phone,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: Hey just want you to know, and I really care
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: about hunting, fishing, land access, connectivity, really want you to
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: prioritize this when it comes time to appropriate funds at
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: the at the legislature. And so I think, you know,
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: if we can bolster some of that funding at the
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: state level and keep some of these connectivity and wild
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: life crossing projects and fish project fish fish passage projects coming,
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: I think we're gonna be able to weather the storm
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: whether or not at the federal level. You know, if
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: funding ends up getting it cut, hopefully we can make
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: it back up at the state level, or you know,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: we can double down and really just communicate the importance
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: of that at the federal level as well.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So I sense that the whole idea of why life
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: crossing projects and things like that maybe gets talked about
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit more out west, But I wonder if
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: the folks on the east part of the eastern side
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: of the country maybe just aren't quite as familiar.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: With what why this is needed or what this looks like.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Can you expand a little bit on that, Devin just explaining,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know, what are these projects actually tackling, What are
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: they actually doing on the ground, Why is this actually important?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I think when people understand it, it's like, oh, yeah,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: this makes a ton of sense. But I'm not sure
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: all that many people truly understand what's happening.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so I think to break it down
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: for a lot of particularly for big game species you
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: know out west, is there's just a lot of seasonal
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: migrations and movement required to access that habitat. I mean
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: a lot of it's related to water, but it's also
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: you know, winter range and making sure that you have
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: that forage available across kind of like broader slots of land.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: And that's going through public private and you've got you know,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: may youre eight lane interstates that have been put up
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: in between you know, where traditional migration routes were, and so,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: you know, part of it is just trying to address
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: you know, declining deers and the number of big game,
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: animals that are just hit that are hitting cars you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: every year is astounding and so you know, that seems
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: like a very easy win for one for motorists because
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: you have fatalities all the time. You've got a huge
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: cost to society just to deal with collisions relating to
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: wildlife and a risk to to just the general people
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: on the on the roads. But also when we're looking
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: at making sure that wildlife can adapt to changing pressures,
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: so whether that's development, whether that's you know, related to
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: changing conditions on the ground with forage, with invasive species,
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: availability of water. Having connective between these various landscapes public land,
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: private land is really critical for those species to be
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: able to adapt. And I think to distribute pressure, even
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: from a hunting perspective, you know, to make sure that
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: animals are not just going to pull up on private
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: land in some of these areas where you have higher pressure.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: And so you know, the one example I'll give you
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: in sort of the microcosm there for the big one
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: sheep crossing project that we're working on, is you've got
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: sheep that come in and they actually have their lambs
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: in between two lanes of freeway and they come back
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: and forth all the time because we've built from major
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: major thoroughfare through this you know, long standing route, movement
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: route where the sheep moved to kind of access water
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: and forage at different times of the year, and so
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: you just have a bunch of sheep that are getting hit.
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: All the time.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Use lambs rams and this is something that we have
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: the color data. So since all that infrastructure was done,
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: now you know, we've been able to secure planning at
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: the state level for the planning and design, which there's
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: a huge amount that goes into permitting and designing these
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: structures and that's where a lot of the costs comes from.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: And then hopefully you know, you move into implementation soon.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: But you use directional fencing to funnel wildlife over a
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: crossing structure so that they're you know, moving and crossing
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: over free. We had a safe point and you know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: we're not having those collisions anymore.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: That I was just gonna say that work is taking
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: place in the East as well. How it looks is
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: a lot different. We might not have the big dramatic
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: overpasses or wildlife overpasses. It can be achieved through directional
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: fences culverts. It's amazing what a white tail will tolerate
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: in terms of going through a tiny little place and
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: other critters for short. So we've we've done a lot
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: of work in the Mid Atlantic the North East related
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: to wildlife crossings, habitat connectivity, and we we've been trying
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: to take a holistic, kind of a holistic approach. I mean,
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: obviously big game animals are are are something that naturally
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: is interesting to to our our membership, but but also
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: you know, uh, fish passages, uh, amphibians and and uh
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: you know, other other types of of of wildlife. So
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: there is an appetite for here in the East, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: we're trying to find those and support not just legislation
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: that makes sense, but we've also been trying to support
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: research and research funding for that type of to try
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: to figure out where the best places are.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's fascinating stuff. And you know, as
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: you alluded to, Devin, increasingly important given the sprawl, given
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: the development never wear, habitat is is getting increasingly fragmented,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: broken up into smaller and smaller pieces. Movements are blocked.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: This stuff's it's so important and fascinating. If anyone is
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: interested in learning more there's a great book called Crossings
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: by Ben Goldfarb. Highly recommend it, all about this stuff.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Another really neat thing. And you guys can tell me
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: if if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: that my sense is accurate, which is that you know,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: funding and work and effort behind these wildlife crossing projects,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: whether it's research or actual you know, building these structures.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: It's got pretty bipartisan support. This is something that's not
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: just supported by you know, traditional grainy environmental groups. This
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: is something that Republicans are getting behind, and you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: rural landowners are getting behind, and you know, farming families,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: different folks like that. This is a win for a
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: lot of different people. Like you said, there's the whole
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: thing with just cars, and say, right, this is just
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: an issue that impacts everyday people too.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: So there's a pretty big.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Tent that can get behind this when so many things
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: seem fractured by partisanship, whether it be on the state
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: level or federal level. In a in a kind of
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: world right now where it seems like a lot of
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: this stuff's getting smoked on funding, this might be one
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: of those unique places where we can get support from
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: both sides of the aisle from all sorts of different
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: types of folks, right.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I absolutely agree, And I think one piece
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: that I like to point to is Secretarial Order three
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: three six two, which came out during the first Trump administration,
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: which you know prioritizes big game migration corridors and winter
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: range and that has helped, I think, particularly with the
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: partnership at the state level and state Wildlife Action Plans
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: and those two kind of prioritizing the importance of understanding
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: where we need to make these investments. So three three
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: six two has helped to channel like huge amount of
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: funding and work into you know, on the ground projects,
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: whether it's fence removals or bitter brush plantings, and like
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: that's the other piece of that connectivity puzzle that I always,
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: you know, want to make sure that we don't forget
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: and that we advocate for and that is a huge
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: part of BHA's work is making sure that there is
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: that funding to do the work on the ground. That
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: is critical to making sure, you know, we can have
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: a lot of that crossing structure and we can have
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: public land, but if it's all cheat gas and all
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: the valuable forge and everything is burned out and been replaced,
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: then you know it's really not serving that function. And
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: so so three three sixty is helped to funnel a
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: huge amount of funding into that type of work that
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: you know, BHA and our partner organizations have you done,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: and a huge amount of volunteers been able to participate
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: in as well.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I might be getting a little bit ahead of ourselves,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: or at least in my initial thought of how this
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: might all go. But both of you have talked about
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: the importance of advocating at the state level for some
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: of this funding and some of these projects, and we
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: spend a pretty decent amount of time, We have spent
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a decent amount of time over past years and podcasts
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: talking about advocating at a federal level. Me and Cale
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: just had a great conversation earlier this year all about that,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: how to become a more effective citizen advocate, you know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: developing relationships with your senators or your representative, or doing
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: these different things on the federal level. But is there
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: anything unique to operating at the state level. I'll be honest,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I've not done a good job of being in touch
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: with my state representative.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: I'm in touch with my federal but like on.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: The state side, or you know, having a relationship with
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: your game commission or anything like that.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: What are some of the unique things we should be
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: thinking about when trying to operate there?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And I know you spoke a little bit to this, Chris,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: but I'd love it a little bit more more tactically
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: if either one of you could expand on the unique
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: pressure points or leverage opportunities, or the unique sides of
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: developing influence within the state structure, whether it be on
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the fishing game side or state funding, et cetera. You know, Chris,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: do you want to tackle that first?
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: Sure?
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: I mean I was. The first step is to understand
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: whether what type of cycle your state operates on how
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: the state legislature works. Is it a short term, you know,
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: a few months session that most of the business gets
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: stuff taking care of that short window of time. Is
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: it a two year cycle like some states have. Once
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: you sort of can identify that, then you know the
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: timetable your your state electeds are going to be working on,
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: and from there you can kind of find out when
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: the best time you might or how how you might
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: want to approach that that lawmaker to find, you know,
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: to open up the lines of communication. So I think
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: that's an important step just to sort of get a
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: sense of all right, like I've got a short window
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: of time, I need to get their attention, and that
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: might change your tactics. If you've got a little bit
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: longer period of time to work with, then you can
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: do a little bit more kind of relationship building and
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: take a more tactful approach to maybe thank that person
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: for some work they did on an issue that you
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: know that was important to you in another session, and
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: use that as an opportunity to start a dialogue on
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: you know, what's important to you in this next or
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: in the current session. I think those types of things
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: building that relationship is so critical. And the states in
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: which we are most effective as a Grasters organization is
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: one where we have a steady presence not just around
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: like the key issues or like the real sort of
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: important issues, but all a lot of different issues, just
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: so we can establish a relationship or rapport with with
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: state officials, lawmakers. I think that that is really really important.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: We have a couple I'm thinking of a few people,
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: a few members that that make an annual appointment. They
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: just sometimes that takes place at a local coffee shop
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: because they're members of the community. Sometimes it's a trip
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: down to the state House, and sometimes it's just a
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: conversation with an aid or an assistant, but it's something
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: they do on an annual basis and that pays dividends
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: UH for US as an organization, for them as a constituent,
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: and at the same time, you know, it's it's good
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: for the for the elected official as well because they
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: get a get a sense of what's happening out there
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: that you know, they wouldn't otherwise get because the reality
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: is they are dealing with probably a lot of different issues,
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: a lot of different constituents, a lot of different bills,
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: and you know, a state like Michigan, a state like Massachusetts,
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: a state like California, there are a lot of bills
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: and there's a lot of passion behind those behind those bills.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: So we're going to keep that in mind and recognize
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: that we're fighting for time and we have to be
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: respectful of that and you know, be constructive when we
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: we have that as those opportunities.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, would you add anything, Devion, I think I.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: Think that was really well put. The only thing I'd
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: add is just these legislators are far more accessible than
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: you would imagine, and they're not. They don't often hear
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: from their constituents, and so just don't you know, undervalue
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: your voice there. And I think reaching out and developing
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: that relationship you can have a conversation that can help
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: to influence their perspective. And hearing from three, four or
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: five constituents on an issue, in many cases and in
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: many states, is significant. So, you know, I think, particularly
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: at the state level, like your voice can really carry Yeah,
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: maybe even a little bit farther.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: I mean we've probably all been in hearings. I mean
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: I've been in public hearings, whether they be a you know,
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: a state, a state commission on a particular series they're
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: handling a series of bills, or like a regulatory hearing,
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: a you know, fish and Wildlife board or something. I've
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: been in the room where I've seen a single voice
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: completely shift the outcome of you know, of a of
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: a decision, and I always, like, I always try to
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: impress that that reality to people, like your voice can
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: and will make a difference so often.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I think an important thing to remember is that
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: in the case of most of these people, making these decisions,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: placing these votes. They don't have a firsthand understanding of
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: that any of this. They're simply taking some you know,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: talking points from somebody else, who got them from somebody else,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: who got them from somebody else and said, hey, just
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: just say this or just make this vote because it
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: fits this narrative or it's it's the thing. They don't
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: have any kind of real firsthand perspective and or thoughts
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: for a different point of view. So if you can
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: be that, if you can simply be a real resource,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: you can really help these people, especially if you start,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: you know, weeks or months or years ahead of a
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: key inflection point, and then when there is a major
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: issue and they are faced with an important decision, they
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: now know, oh, you know Chris from down the road,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: or Chris that stops in once a year to talk
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: about hunting and fishing issues, he's actually someone who probably
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: has a perspective that could help me at make this
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: decision and be a little bit more informed.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: That's a huge thing.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: That's that's a huge thing. So I think we need
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: to remember that. To your point, Devin, we can make
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: a difference. There's they're accessible and probably in many cases
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: open to other ideas. So continuing down the line, Chris,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: what's your next big one?
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: Another big one I think would be public land management,
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: just again kind of keeping it to the state level,
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: so state forest wildlife management areas. We've seen a lot
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: of new voices coming into the conversation when it comes
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: to the management of these lands. There's in a lot
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: of Eastern states, for instance, that there's been a push
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: to establish these things that are oftentimes referred to as
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: old growth reserves, essentially creating stands of wildlife management areas
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: or state forests that do not get touched in terms
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: of habitat management or wildlife management for wildlife management purposes.
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: UH.
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: And in many cases they go so far as to
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: trying to uh take management control, soul management control away
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: from the state agency and create new commissions and boards
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: to manage these areas. And if this was to come
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: to pass, those types of initiatives, especially as they relate
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: to lands that are that are were intentionally purchase purchased
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: for the purpose of hunting, fishing, and wildlife habitat, is
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: definitely concerning to us. And they have evolved their messaging
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: for these things to to include things like biodiversity and
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: climate change and carbon sequestration and uh and so to
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: it just to we were just talking about. You know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: these are things that might be on the radar for
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: some of these state officials. They might not have full
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: grasp of all the concepts and how it all sort
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: of plays out and what the management charge of these
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: lands are. So it requires a very deliberate approach when
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: it comes to sort of educating lawmakers around these subjects.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: And we have to be very clear and make the
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: distinction of why these lands and the work that the
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: state agencies are doing in order totain certain types of habitat,
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: whether it be early successional or sure types of forest.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Whatever it might be.
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: So it really creates these really challenging situations because even
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: in some of these situations they've called for the exclusion
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: of hunters and anglers not just from the conversation and
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: the management, but from potentially from the actual areas themselves.
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: So and that's just one example of like a land
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: management type of scenario. You know, there's all also issues
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: with the management as it relates to other forms of
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: recreation and whether that might be trail building or you know,
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: things along those lines and These all have impacts on wildlife,
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: they all have impacts on opportunity, They could have impact
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: on access. So land management issues at the state level
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: is something that we definitely are watching. And the challenges
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: and the situations really change from state to state, so
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: you know, again it's one of those hyper local type
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: of issues sometimes.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so there's there's state level public land type management processes,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: and then there's the federal kind of corollary, which would
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: be like resource manage plans or national forest management plans,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: whatever it might be. How should citizens engage on those
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: what's the you know, I would imagine it's an agency
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: by agency program, But can you talk to us a
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: little bit about what how we might be able to
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: figure out the right times to engage on those things?
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: How to engage on those things? You know, Like you said, Chris,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff's complicated. It's really easy to say
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: don't sell public lands. That's a very simple, easy to
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: understand narrative. Easy to call someone and say, don't sell
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: my public lands. It's much harder to have a clear,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: nuanced understanding of something like, hey, how do we manage
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: these things best? Like even the example you brought up
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: is complicated and complex, right, It's like, well, yeah, we
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: we need to have actively managed forests in some places,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: but maybe there are some places that should be in
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: a more mature state, and maybe there are some places
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: there should be logging, and maybe there are some places
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: that shouldn't have logging, and maybe they're there are some
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: places that should be protected in X way, and there's
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: other places that should be in why way. Right, this
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: is like there's a lot of gray areas when it
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: comes to management and priorities and all of that.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: So how do you go about influencing any of that.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: Well, there's public hearings around the management of properties or
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: the establishment of a management plan that's going to be
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: used to manage the next say decade or whatever, like
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: it might not be you know, it's not it's not
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: like an issue like selling off of public plans like
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: you mentioned. It's an issue that is going to have
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: that he's going to have a long term impact, but
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: it might not draw the same attention. And so it's
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: just a matter of really kind of plugging in to
• 52:51
  Speaker 5: the state agencies, plugging in to organization like PHA who's
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: watching and engaged in these things, or other NGO and
• 53:00
  Speaker 5: and so that when there is a call to action,
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: when there is a public hearing, when there is a
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: need to sort of reach out and make a connection
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: to in a two a decision maker, that those voices
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: can can come out. This is you know, it's it's
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: the thing we always kind of come back to, is
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: that there's sort of there is a responsibility as for
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: us as hunters and anglers to sort of stay abreast
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: of all this information, to learn, to continue to learn.
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: I think it also helps us when when we're in
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: the field and doing what we love most. But it
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: also makes us just a more rounded, a more rounded conservationist.
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: And so it's it's just a matter of sort of
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: stay in touch with these things, raising your voice when
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: when needed. You know, this is not something that typically
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: happens on an annual basis in terms of management plans. However,
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: there are there is legislation sometimes that can uh usert
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: the management plans, like the like the forest reserve type
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: of scenario that I just laid out. So it's you know,
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: it is a lot to sort of stay at stay
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: on top of, and uh, you know that's why I think,
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: you know, it's sort of self serving a little bit
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: to sort of mention it, but to plug into two
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: other con plug into a conservation organizations, just so you
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: know someone else is also keeping an eye on this
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: kind of stuff.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got to believe, you know, for some
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: people this is going to be a case by case basis.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: But there's some people especially I think national forests or
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: big state forest is easier to to think about when you,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: you know, might live somewhere where, Hey, like, my entirety
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: of my outdoor access and my public access is dependent
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: on the Hiawatha National Forest or the yeah, the whatever
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Traverse City state for a store, the national you know,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: gallut And National Forest in Montana, whatever it is. Like,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: if if there's a place that's near and dear to
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: your heart into your activities, it probably doesn't make sense
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: to to start to understand when do these resource management
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: plans or forest management plans start, you know, get when
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: do they start being debated, discussed, work done? Who do
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I who do you need to know to be you know,
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: heard on those things? You know, what's what's the line?
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: If you're not at the table, you're on the menu.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I think this is that's true for everything we're talking
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: about but it's definitely true when it comes to these
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: management plans, right.
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'll say too, there's a bit of responsibility
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: that that does fall on the state agencies or the
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: the land management organization, whether it's like this your state
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: force entity or you know, conservation department. However it works
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: for your particular state, Well, they're mandated to sort of
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: say that they're gonna like their management plan is up
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: for for for conversation, for public comment. They also have
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: to be better about explaining the why the why they're
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: doing things. And because so oftentimes, let's take for an instance,
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: where there might be a WMA that at one point
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: in time in the history of this say forest, it
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: might have been like a pine barrens type of habitat,
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: and so the state might go and take effort, maybe
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: do a controlled burn and do some different habitat work
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: to restore that pine barrens. But if they don't articulate
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: sort of the why, the process, what they're doing, other
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: members of the community when they visit these locations that
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: are important to many people, not just hunters and anglers,
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: they might not be ready for what isn't what they
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: see the trucks, the saws, the fire, the smoke, all
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: that sort of stuff, because sometimes these projects take a
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: long time, and if they don't articulate what they're trying
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: to achieve and the steps that are require to get
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: to that objective, then you know, we're left kind of
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: having to sort of, you know, have a little bit
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: tougher uphill battle, if you will. So I think it's
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: important to sort of, you know, ask our state agencies
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: to sort of explain better and to do a little
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: bit more outward work publicly as to what they're trying
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: to achieve and how they plan on too.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with with public land being such a massive part
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: of the landscape out west, Devin, I got to imagine
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: this whole management side of things is a big part
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: of your world. Would you would you have anything to add?
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, to build on those great points Chris made, you know,
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: I think, and trying to look ahead a little bit
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: about you know, into the crystal ball and what we're
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: potentially going to be seeing. You know, I think there
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: are some big common opportunities, you know, besides trying to
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: track and understand what's happening, you know, with the resource
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: management planning process in your particular area, you know, there's
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: some big national initiatives that that we're grappling with, one
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: of those being, you know, the repeal of the roadless Rule.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: Another one just kind of broader again in that same
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: sort of vein, is looking at you know, travel management
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: and how we might see some big changes and movement
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: there on on how we manage you know, motorized use
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: in national forests and and these are you know, pretty
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: unwieldy when you try to think about it the grand
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: scale for the nation and for an individual kind of
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: as you ask Mark like, so, how do you weigh
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: in here? What's your voice? What's your role? You know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: what we have been doing is is soliciting stories from
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: our membership and our constituents in these particular areas. So
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: we've overlaid some GIS resources, you know, where what's a
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: roadless area and trying to break down some of that
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: just to you know, so when you're doing you're scouting,
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: or when you're you know, looking at where you typically hunt,
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: you can say, I have a personal story here, and
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: I think that is is the lane that we're really
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: encouraging folks to try and lean into. Is the power
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: of like your own story, your own pictures, your own videos,
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: run these inventory roadless areas, your stories being out there walking,
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: you know, five miles into the back country whatever it is,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: and having some dude on his z bike zip by
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: in a you know, non motorized area and e bikes
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: is a whole separate one. You know, we can give
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: you a thousand things to look at, but I'll try
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: not to go down too many rabbit holes. I just
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: think that, you know, it's going to be really important
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: for for folks to one be be tracking those timelines,
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: so like paying attention to your conservation organizations that are
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: that are tracking these things. Roadless we're probably going to
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: see a comment opportunity sometime around March or in the springtime,
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: and travel management might be a little bit later in
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: the year, maybe around August. But you know, weighing in
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: with with your personal connection to the land, the big
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: bull that you killed, or you know, whatever it is
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: that you like to do out on those public lands,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: those are the narratives that I think will have the
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: most weight. And being in this constituency of hunters and anglers,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: we are uniquely positioned right now to be able to
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: influence policy by just telling it how it is and
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: saying this is this is where I go hunt and fish.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: This is the value that I see in these lands.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: This is why I want to be providing this context
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: for legislators so that they understand when they're making these
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: big decisions, that they can connect it to the ground,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: to the uses. And so I think that's the strategy there, right,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: That's how you can kind of make your voice carry
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: a little bit further and influence some of these bigger, burlier,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: unwieldy land management type decisions.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned the Travel Management Plan situation. I think
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of folks now understand what the roadless Rule
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: is is and what's going on with that. I don't
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: think as many people know about the Travel Management Plan
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: possible update or roll back, whatever that's going to be.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Can you can you give folks a quick rundown of
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: what that might mean, what that could lead to, why
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: that's worth paying attention to.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so this one is kind of developing. We've seen
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: some comments from the administration that they're going to be
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: looking to basically modify or roll back the two thousand
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: and five Travel Management Rule. And so what this basically is,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: to break it down, is, you know, you have various
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: areas in your forests, in public lands that are designated
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: as you know, motorized non motorized. You've got specific regulations
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: on trails and and what uses are allowed and what aren't.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: You know, I think that this has helped to balance
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: some of those multiple uses, right BJA. And you know,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: most many concerts organizations we work with have a nuanced
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: perspective there. Right, there's a you know, a time and
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: place for motorized access and and that's fantastic, and we
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: use that time and place for for ohvs and and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: those are are fun to get on. But there's also
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: the importance and the significance of those backcountry areas that
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: do require a little bit more respect and work to
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: get to and to appreciate. And so what we're we're
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: seeing as indication that, like we're there's going to be
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: some shifts there and uh you know, potentially some expansion
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: of motorized access into some of these previously non motorized areas.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: And the reason why that's significant is one, I mean,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: back country wouldn't be back country, but we just drive
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: in there and park. Uh So just core to the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: ethos of what BHA is is about finding that solace
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: and getting out there and and really like putting the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: work in. But the other impact there is, you know,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: when we increase pressure and access us and make it
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: easier to access some of these more remote areas, we're
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: likely to see increased negative impacts on our game species
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: and that and you know, just punching roads into the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: back country there are, and increasing motorized access in the
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: back country. There are all sorts of you know, trickle
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: down impacts there for uh that have been well documented
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: for you know, migration for the health of different herds
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: of al kadeer, and then also sedimentation into streams for
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: you know, fisheries and risk of fires as people are driving.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: You know, fires are more likely to start in your road.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: So there's all these different angles there. And again I
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: think the well, we'll see what comes of this, but
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: I think the opportunity is there to work with a
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: broad variety of stakeholders. There's a number of you know,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: kind of motorized recreation groups that have come out opposed
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: to that because there is a good balance right now
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: and they they're all our gains and conversations that have
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: been made that are you know, getting people together in
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: a room and understanding, Okay, well, where does motorized recreation
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: make sense and where we want to limit that? And
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: I think we don't want to throw all that hard
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: work and all those conversations out, and certainly there's probably
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: an opportunity to improve that. Well, you know, stick our
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: heads in the sand there, but I want to make
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: sure that that that we're not throwing it all away
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: and then we're working to improve and have those you know,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: broad stakeholders driven conversations to make that happen.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So I feel like we have time for
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: one last big picture issue or opportunity, and I think
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: that that opportunity goes to you, Devin, You've got one
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: more if you have another one you want to talk about.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Do we have any final issue or opportunity you want
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: to want to wrap this up with.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, we got We could go on for days,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: so we'll keep it to your time time limit here,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: you know, I think the one that I'll try to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: to a bit of a broad brush here and then
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: we can zero in a bit. But just looking at access, right,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: we can't hunt fish if we can't get there and
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: we don't have access, and so I'll give you kind
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: of like the land and the water components of that
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: that I think we're likely to see a lot of
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: movement uh next year in legislatures, particularly at the state level,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: and that is looking at navigable waters access, stream access,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: and also corner crossing. So you know, I think corner
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: crossing being more of a Western issue. You know, I'll
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: just kind of mentioned briefly that we're we're already hearing
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: about potential you know, bills, draft legislation and various states
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: that are following on the heels of the Tenth Circuit
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: decision and the decision by the Supreme Court to you know,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: basically affirm that Tenth Circuit decision. And so now we
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: have great clarity in those six states covered by the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: Tenth Circuit, but really a huge part portion of the
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: rest of the West and the Ninth is you know,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: kind of remains to be determined. There's a bit of
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: a legal gray area there, and so I think we've
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: seen movement in Montana coming out from the fish and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: Wildlife and parks saying it's illegal, we're going to prosecute it,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: which is a bit of a departure from previous statements
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: We've seen some statements from Colorado inside the tenth talking
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: about you know how it's great, it's legal, but you
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: can't do it on state lands. Wyoming has a bill
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: looking at criminal trespass oregons looking out a bill, and
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: so just flagging that one that it would be a
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: great issue to stay on top of. It's gonna be
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: something that BHA is heavily engaged in, and we're going
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: to continue to work with landowners, with you know, this
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: broad community to ensure that we have access to our
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: public lands and respect for private property. I think this
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: is a common sense one that we really can all
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: agree on and provide some clarity there. And then the
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: water side, you're gonna mention, yeah, and then on the
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: water side, you know, just over the last couple of years,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: there's been a lot of movement on navigable waters, you know,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: in stream access. So New Mexico had some some big
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: gains on stream access. California past navigable waters flooded Waters
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: bill that was really like important and and pro hunting.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: Oregon just passed a great bill to help streamline the
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: process for determining navigal waters. Uh, and I think that
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: we're likely to see some big movement in Colorado and
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: Utah this year as well, where stream access and navigable
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: waters access is not as uh as open and it's
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: it's actually really restrictive in Colorado where there are a
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: number of rivers that you can't float even so not
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: even talking about touching the streambed, you can't even float
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: through uh these private property areas where you know, these
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: are clear big rivers that have been used for a
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: long time by people to hunt and fish, and they're
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: critical for our access, you know, I think in a
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: number of different states, and so I expect us to
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: to be engaging heavily on this as we have in
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: the past. But to see a number of bills and
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: you know, the the right to float through these, you know,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: major thoroughfares and to be able to fish and hunt
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: them is really critical to the whole public trust doctrine
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: to you know what, I would believe, you know, just
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: similar to public lands, that these are essential to kind
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: of our heritage and and what it means to be
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: an American is to have access to these lands and waters.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: And so every state's a little different. We'll see what
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: happens in Colorado and Utah. And I know, Chris, I
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: think there may be you know, movement as well in
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: the East on this one. So it's one of those
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: issues that that does kind of span span the nation
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot to digest there and to to this
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: is what's one of those deals where maybe all of
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: this I do feel like the homogenization or the nationalization
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: of everything these days leads to us sometimes thinking about
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: conservation at this very federal, national level, right, I mean,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: like the politics of Michigan versus Florida sometimes don't feel
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: that different when all you're hearing about is what's on
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: you know, Fox News or CNN, and all they're talking
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: about is the national stuff. And you know, we're all
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: like virtual neighbors now, so it's easy sometimes to forget
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: about how important some of the state level stuff is
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: that is far reaching and that does have major implications
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: like this water access, like you know, corner crossings that
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: are all you know, while it might be a federal
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: debate on many of these things were be handled in
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court or federal course farther farther down, Uh,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: the state is where a lot of this stuff ends
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: up being decided in practice, and and that's where we
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: actually can have more impact, maybe because it's it's slightly
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: less noisy.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: There so really really good reminders on that front for us.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Wrapping things up, I guess a little bit of a
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: rapid fire, quick set of questions that I would be
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: curious to just get the first things that come off
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: the top of your mind. This could be something that
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: we've already talked about. These might be things that are
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: that are new that have been to be brought up yet.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: But I'd like to with each of you ask you
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: three fast questions, and then we're going to tie this
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: all up and get you guys out and back to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: your very important jobs. I'll start with you, Devin, since
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: you've got some momentum if you've been talking here a second.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: First thing, what today gives you the most cause for
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: concern about the future of hunting, fishing, wildlife and wild places.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: What's the first thing that that's causing you concern that
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: that worries you the most. If there's anything that we're
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: going to be keeping you up at night, and this
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: could be state level, federal anything, what's that one thing?
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: It's the hollowing out of our federal agencies, the lack
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: of funding for those federal agencies, and the real kind
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: of resurgence of the sagebrush rebellion type notion that we
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: should be transferring our federal lands to the states, centralizing
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: you know, fire management, and taking the role of the
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: federal government that we currently have to manage our public
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: lands to keep them the public hands according to the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: multiple use mandate and that balance. I think that's the
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: one that's giving me up, and that we're basically siloing
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: these things out and hauling them out and bringing in
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: more kind of private industry and some of these shared
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: stewardship agreements to really you know, kind of just reduce
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: the role that the federal government and also the public
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: has and being able to comment and manage those lands.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: We should probably take another thirty minutes to unbox that
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: some more. But but but but yes, lots a lot there.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: A quick pivot. What's one thing that gives you hope?
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: What's the one thing that encourages you despite all of that.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: I think that gives me hope is this, you know,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: seeing the amount of people and the bipartisan nature of
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: this issued, the amount of people that came out over
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: the summer opposing the sale of lands and the kind
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: of the public lands being front and center for a
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: number of different communities and constituencies that maybe didn't previously
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: weigh in there. And I think it's it's one of
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: the really it should be and has been one of
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: the few bipartisan issues that we can really lean into.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: And so I think I continue to hope that public
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: lands and hunting access and angling assets, all those you know,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: things that fit into the umbrella public lands continue to
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: be something that is not a part of an issue
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: that we can build big tents and move forward and
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: keep those public plans and publicans all right.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: And the one single action that you would ask of
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: our listeners over the next twelve months, what's the single
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: most important thing they can do as hunters and anglers
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: and advocates for these things.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: The single most important thing would be to develop a
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: relationship with your state and federal members of Congress and
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 4: members of the state legislature and tell your stories from
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: those lands that you have, like, provide your personal, authentic,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: honest accounts of why these places are important to you,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: and utilize the tools that BHAs provided and partner organizations
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: have for you know, framing and particular issues and the
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: wants and details and data. But to be honest, just
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: tell your story and that is going to go a
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: lot further than parroting any talking points.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Chris, you're up to bat. Single greatest
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: point of concern.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna this one's gonna come from from the East,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: and that's relevancy. Our relevancy is hunters and anglers is
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 5: something that concerns me. Across most of the country, resident
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: license sales are declining, and that decline is most dramatic
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: in the East and some of the more populated states.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: And we need to be able to articulate and what
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: our value is to society and why what we do
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: is important not to us, but to society as a whole.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 5: I think that is I think there aren't as many
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: people who are able to share those experiences in a
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: in a in a manner that is gonna to help
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 5: the greater hunting and fishing communities. I think we all
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 5: have to be better at at doing doing that.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, greatest cause for hope.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 5: Connection. You know, when when you know DEVI and I
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: have the opportunity to to travel around a little bit
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 5: to meet our members of the hunting and fishing community,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 5: especially within like the b h A community, and to
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 5: see the the passion and this like the just the
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 5: broad sets of experiences and and and and the and
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: the passionates out there Like that gives me hope that
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: like all of the challenges that we are facing, can
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 5: can can be met and and surpassed. Like I mean,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 5: you've been to Rendezvous, You've been to some of the
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: other events, like those things I think are so critical.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 5: We have to we have to connect face to face
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: more often.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and what's your call to action?
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna I gotta say exactly what what what Devin said?
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: Make a connection to your elected officials and also just
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: I said it earlier. Uh, let that also include your
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: your state Fish and Wildlife Board or your state agency.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 5: You know, develop relationship more than just sending in your
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 5: sixty five dollars or whatever it is your for your
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 5: annual license. Uh, make that connection, show up at an event,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: you know, support the agency or just learn learn from
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: the agency. And I think that's gonna help out everybody.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so true. Well, Christian's you're the last one on
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: the line here. You're stuck giving the plug too.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Can you tell folks where they can connect with backcountry
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: hunters and anglers, how they can do so anything else
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: on that front.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 5: Sure, So of course we're on all the social platforms.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 5: Our website backcountry hunters dot org. You can find all
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 5: the stuff that we work on. At the state level.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 5: We have a monthly sort of column on the website.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: It also is sort of streamlined for a social media
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 5: post called the Policy Spotder State Policy Spoder, where we
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 5: kind of focus just highlight a handful of state issues
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: that we're working on on a monthly basis, like look
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 5: for those types of things. Become a member, support the
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 5: work that we're doing, Attend at event, habitat Stewardship Project,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 5: Pine Night, whatever it is. You know, take that opportunity
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 5: to to sort of have a face to face conversation
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 5: with someone and you know, you're welcome to be part
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 5: of this community and to work for public lands, waters
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 5: and wildlife.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good time too. We've all experienced that,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: and so was this. So thank you Devin, thank you, Chris,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: really appreciate you guys time.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing all us, Thank you, thank you. All right,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: and that's going to do it. For us today. Thanks
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: for being here.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: I appreciate your time, I appreciate you being a part
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: of this community, and I am wishing you an incredible
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. Lots of fun times have had and
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: plenty more hours on the podcast. Here the two of
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: us talking about these wild things we enjoy so much.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: So until next time, thanks for being here, and stay
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: wired to Hunt.