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Candyman Never Lost Its Sting - Xenomania 77 · Xenomania

• 0:00
  Jon: This week on Xenomania, join us for a trip to Chicago and Cabrini-Green
• 0:06
  for an urban legend so horrific just the name should scare you.
• 0:12
  We have bees, a real-life connection, and lots of Tony Todd love.
• 0:18
  And it isn't possible that one of my co-hosts slashes another classic.
• 0:24
  Is it?
• 0:26
  Is it?
• 0:28
  Ryan Kearns?
• 0:32
  Anyway, say his name five times and he appears.
• 0:37
  We believe in Candyman.
• 0:40
  This is Xenomania
• 0:58
  Ryan: You know what grinds my gears is the fact that we have to keep
• 1:01
  doing remakes of beloved classics.
• 1:03
  Zack Snyder and Escape From New York.
• 1:07
  What, what are we doing here?
• 1:09
  Why are you
• 1:10
  Kearns: additional haircut
• 1:11
  Ryan: cult classic?
• 1:11
  Listen, I mean, I'm John Carpenter fan, love John Carpenter.
• 1:15
  Like, there's no reason to remake this film.
• 1:19
  There's no reason to have a sequel.
• 1:21
  There's like… And I know Escape From LA is John Carpenter, like no reason to have
• 1:26
  a sequel, there's no reason for a remake
• 1:31
  Jon: There's no reason for a remake.
• 1:32
  Ryan: What are you gonna change?
• 1:33
  What are you gonna make different and make
• 1:35
  Jon: You could make it look better perhaps.
• 1:41
  Ryan: Watch Lockout then.
• 1:43
  Jon: You're never gonna recreate the cast.
• 1:45
  You're never gonna recreate the magic of the cast
• 1:48
  Ryan: Real quick, have you seen Lockout with Guy Pearce?
• 1:51
  Jon: No, I don't think I have.
• 1:53
  Ryan: Lock- it, it's Escape From New York in space, on a space station.
• 1:56
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 1:57
  Ryan: Luke Besson already done it,
• 1:58
  Kearns: Ryan is fired up this week, everybody
• 2:00
  Ryan: Oh, they should not remake Escape From New York.
• 2:03
  Jon: Listen,
• 2:04
  Kearns: your Schneiders
• 2:06
  Jon: Ze
• 2:06
  Ryan: yeah, Snyder cut my ass
• 2:08
  Jon: Za- Zack Snyder is gonna ruin every movie I love eventually.
• 2:12
  I mean, he already, he, it… The, the Dawn, the Dawn remake is a travesty
• 2:20
  to the name of Dawn of the Dead.
• 2:22
  I don't, I don't
• 2:24
  Kearns: with Halloween III, it's a good movie, it's just not Dawn of the Dead
• 2:29
  Ryan: But it's like, okay, if you really look at it, he's created two
• 2:34
  good quality like originals, which is Army of the Dead and Army of Thieves.
• 2:39
  His like adaptation of 300 is excellent.
• 2:43
  His adaptation of Watchmen is a good adaptation for the
• 2:48
  theatrical run, I will say that, comparing it to the graphic novel.
• 2:52
  Man of Steel is a good film, I'll
• 2:54
  Kearns: Yeah, AirSteels are good
• 2:55
  Ryan: Unless you are a DC fanatic with Zack Snyder related, then you're fine.
• 3:01
  Other than that, he tried killing it
• 3:04
  Jon: I hated every moment of those DC movies.
• 3:07
  Every moment
• 3:08
  Kearns: Superman ones were okay, particularly Man of Steel.
• 3:12
  But the Justice Le- everything they did with the Justice
• 3:15
  League stuff was horrible.
• 3:16
  You're not a huge comic book movie guy anyway.
• 3:19
  Jon: No.
• 3:20
  Ryan: expect him to like, you to like Watchmen though,
• 3:23
  Jon: Nope
• 3:23
  Ryan: I think that's a
• 3:24
  Kearns: No, Watchmen, I actually didn't like Watchmen much either.
• 3:26
  I thought they could have done a much better job
• 3:29
  Jon: I haven't watched 300 in a really long time.
• 3:32
  I bet it doesn't hold up quite as w- well as, as you would think
• 3:36
  Kearns: Well, the, at the time it was the special effects that really
• 3:39
  Jon: Yeah.
• 3:39
  Kearns: Off, yeah
• 3:41
  Ryan: Like seeing it in a theater and it's like, you know, he kicks him into the
• 3:45
  well, and it's like the imagery and the buildup and the idea of the 300 Spartans
• 3:50
  Kearns: Yeah, it kind of all
• 3:51
  Ryan: it.
• 3:52
  Kearns: came together
• 3:52
  Ryan: like, it's awesome, but like that's like our nostalgia.
• 3:57
  For kids today they're like, "Oh, let's, let's throw in this old 2000 movie,"
• 4:00
  Kearns: Yeah, we were watching that back when we were crushing
• 4:03
  cases of Keystone Lights and stuff.
• 4:05
  Like, that was that era when we were like, "Whoa, man.
• 4:07
  It was great.
• 4:08
  You know what?
• 4:08
  I know everything about the Battle of Thermopylae, bro.
• 4:12
  You don't even understand what they did to those Persians." That's
• 4:15
  the way we watched that movie.
• 4:19
  Those are CGI abs.
• 4:21
  Gerard Butler didn't do a single sit-up.
• 4:26
  Ryan: That was every single sit-up, sir. But that's how you gotta
• 4:29
  watch every Zack Snyder film.
• 4:31
  Kearns: Let's get after it.
• 4:32
  Jon: Mm.
• 4:33
  Kearns: Light.
• 4:33
  Jon: Yeah, I mean, put it
• 4:35
  Kearns: specific spot in the country to get that
• 4:37
  Jon: But there, are very few beers that, are more appropriate for, a director
• 4:41
  than Keystone Light and Zack Snyder
• 4:44
  Kearns: That's a perfect comparison actually.
• 4:46
  I love it.
• 4:47
  Jon: It's still a beer.
• 4:49
  They're still movies.
• 4:52
  Kearns: Hmm.
• 4:53
  Ryan: Hmm.
• 4:54
  Kearns: Oh, we should do an episode where we
• 4:56
  Jon: You could definitely do better
• 4:57
  Kearns: movies.
• 4:59
  Jon: Mm
• 4:59
  Kearns: make a list of movies and match beers to them.
• 5:01
  I can't wait to figure out, like, what Milwaukee's best is.
• 5:06
  Pabst Blue Ribbon.
• 5:06
  We already plugged Pabst Blue Ribbon once.
• 5:08
  We're gonna do it again, baby
• 5:10
  Jon: Well,
• 5:11
  Ryan: mean
• 5:12
  Jon: Pabst Blue Ribbon probably has to be something like Hereditary
• 5:17
  Kearns: I don't know.
• 5:17
  Jon: The Babadook or s- so- something that's trendy because PBR kinda
• 5:22
  got that hipstery trendy thing
• 5:25
  Ryan: Yeah, I did.
• 5:26
  Kearns: They rode that lightning all the way to the bank.
• 5:29
  Went to a place in Red Hook, Brooklyn, where they're a dollar.
• 5:33
  But you have to go to Red Hook, Brooklyn, where the trains
• 5:36
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 5:37
  Kearns: You have
• 5:37
  Jon: Yeah
• 5:38
  Kearns: find your way out there.
• 5:39
  Ryan: It's okay.
• 5:40
  Kearns: You gotta walk pretty much.
• 5:43
  from the decent parts of Brooklyn to Red Hook
• 5:46
  Jon: mileage-wise, Brooklyn is what?
• 5:48
  Less than 50 miles away.
• 5:51
  Travel time, it's like 12 hours
• 5:54
  Kearns: Yeah, it takes forever to get there.
• 5:55
  You can go down the West Side Highway and hit the Battery, and
• 5:58
  that's probably your best way in.
• 5:59
  And just saying that out loud is like, that's the best way in?
• 6:03
  Yeah
• 6:04
  Ryan: do you consider worse to travel to Queens compared
• 6:08
  Jon: No, Queens is a lot easier.
• 6:10
  Queens you just…
• 6:11
  Kearns: the two bridges, yeah
• 6:12
  Ryan: I-- no, I like Queens.
• 6:14
  I don't like traveling to Queens,
• 6:15
  Jon: I don't like any of it.
• 6:16
  I don't like traveling to any of those places, man
• 6:19
  Kearns: Now I haven't been to the city in forever because of that,
• 6:22
  Jon: There are too many humans there
• 6:24
  Kearns: You know why, because I'm scared of all the urban legends.
• 6:28
  Jon: Ah.
• 6:30
  Kearns: Yeah, let's bring it
• 6:30
  Jon: It's interesting you bring up urban legends because the movie we're
• 6:35
  dealing with this week centers on them.
• 6:38
  Kearns: It is.
• 6:39
  Don't say it five times looking in the mirror, everybody.
• 6:41
  We're back to Candyman
• 6:44
  Jon: the 1992 original Candyman
• 6:48
  Ryan: That's two.
• 6:49
  Da- damn it, three.
• 6:50
  Kearns: I'm too
• 6:51
  Jon: Candyman, Candyman
• 6:52
  Kearns: I won't, I won't, like, mess with the, the black magic
• 6:56
  Ryan: you
• 6:56
  Jon: Candyman, Candyman, Candyman, Candyman, Candyman
• 7:00
  Ryan: I remember doing that in elementary school.
• 7:02
  Like first, second grade, we'd go in the classroom because I think, was it
• 7:06
  '95, '96, the second one was coming out, and we were all talking about
• 7:11
  that and like go up to the window and like the whole Bloody Mary thing.
• 7:14
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 7:15
  Ryan: That was like the '90s generation w- and the '80s was like that, or late '80s
• 7:19
  I should say, was starting to get into that urban legend and mythology of it.
• 7:23
  But it was just like Candyman was just a different beast.
• 7:26
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 7:27
  Ryan: it, I've seen it multiple times.
• 7:30
  Watching it again, it still hits me.
• 7:32
  The music, you know, the tone,
• 7:35
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 7:37
  The…
• 7:38
  Ryan: this woman just, Helen, just break down.
• 7:40
  Jon: Yeah
• 7:41
  Ryan: question is, is it really him doing And you brought up a good point,
• 7:45
  with our outline and stuff that I never thought is she was doing the entire time,
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  'cause I never thought of it like that.
• 7:51
  I always thought he was, but
• 7:54
  Jon: Well,
• 7:54
  Ryan: ball you put
• 7:55
  Jon: I, I mean,
• 7:56
  Kearns: mom
• 7:57
  Jon: I believe that Candyman is My bigger question is how many of
• 8:01
  them are… is she culpable for?
• 8:06
  Kearns: How many is she culpable for unaliving?
• 8:09
  Jon: How many of those Candyman events are really Helen's responsibility?
• 8:16
  'Cause one for sure is.
• 8:18
  The psychiatrist is 100%
• 8:22
  Ryan: This, I think Bernadette's a definite.
• 8:25
  Jon: Mean, Bernard- Bernadette.
• 8:26
  Ryan: The knife.
• 8:27
  She, and I feel like the hook going into the back of her
• 8:31
  head is Candyman transferring himself to her and controlling
• 8:34
  Jon: Yeah, I mean,
• 8:35
  Ryan: the
• 8:35
  Jon: I mean, it's possible they're playing on what they'll get to in the
• 8:39
  Nia DaCosta one that, you know, Candyman is, can be multiple people, is multiple
• 8:46
  people a- across time, you know.
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  But I, I think Candyman is really doing the offings or the
• 8:53
  whatever we, we wanna call them to, to, to the, the events are…
• 9:02
  But she, like, the psychiatrist, definitely her fault.
• 9:05
  She didn't have to do that.
• 9:07
  Bernadette, kind of as much Bernadette's fault because she was lockstep in this
• 9:12
  whole thing for, you know, the whole time.
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  She, she willingly did the Candyman in the mirror too.
• 9:19
  Like, she…
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  Ryan: She stopped though.
• 9:22
  Jon: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:23
  I mean, she chickens out, but she was along for the ride for, you know, not
• 9:28
  completely willingly, but not unwilling.
• 9:32
  Ryan: Fair.
• 9:33
  Agreed on that
• 9:34
  Jon: Bernadette is iffy, but the psychiatrist is definitely Helen's fault
• 9:38
  Ryan: Psychologist is definitely…
• 9:40
  Jon: well, y-
• 9:41
  Ryan: forgot the dog scene was in that.
• 9:42
  Jon: the dog scene is the roughest scene in this movie for me
• 9:46
  Kearns: Easily.
• 9:47
  Jon: Like by a lot.
• 9:48
  You can do, you can do anything to a human being and I'll, I'll
• 9:51
  just like maybe blink, but no, th- that, that dog part was, is rough
• 9:59
  Kearns: What did he ever do to Camry, man?
• 10:00
  What racist dogs exist?
• 10:02
  Geez
• 10:04
  Ryan: I was gonna say on a, on an even level we all enjoy Candyman,
• 10:08
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 10:08
  Oh
• 10:09
  Ryan: So
• 10:09
  Kearns: had a hard time watching it as a kid
• 10:12
  Ryan: Well, yeah, I mean the whole idea of the urban legend, the,
• 10:14
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 10:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:15
  Ryan: the enticement of wanting to say it five times, but it leads to my
• 10:21
  idea that don't you notice, like, any good movie opens up with that TriStar
• 10:26
  Productions opening with the horse running to you, or the unicorn, or
• 10:31
  Kearns: I think it's a
• 10:31
  Jon: Yeah.
• 10:32
  Kearns: yeah
• 10:32
  Ryan: a
• 10:32
  Jon: Yeah
• 10:33
  Ryan: Even if a movie is, quote unquote, "bad", I feel like anything with a
• 10:37
  TriStar gives you like a fuzzy feeling.
• 10:40
  I think it's like our nostalgia nowadays.
• 10:42
  Kearns: Oh, yeah
• 10:43
  Ryan: this is gonna be a good movie
• 10:45
  Jon: Yeah, there, there's a few of those that, that are generally, you see,
• 10:50
  you see that label and you know you're gonna, you're gonna have a good time.
• 10:54
  Dimension was like that for a long time
• 10:57
  Ryan: to mention.
• 10:58
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 10:59
  Ryan: like the late 80s, early 90s one, which was like the first, like
• 11:03
  really in-depth color with the clay.
• 11:05
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 11:05
  Kearns: used to slap too
• 11:06
  Jon: the thing with 20th Century Fox is I'd see that and I'd automatically
• 11:10
  default to specific movies.
• 11:12
  Be like, "Oh, this is gonna be this.
• 11:14
  It's all… " Oh, it's not that
• 11:16
  Kearns: it's not that.
• 11:18
  Jon: So there was always a bit of letdown built in with that
• 11:23
  Ryan: Well, also it was cool, I said it, 'cause I get excited about this little,
• 11:26
  like, these tidbits is, like, if you watch Alien, like, at the end of the intro
• 11:31
  for 20th Century Fox, you start hearing, like, the music incorporated into the
• 11:35
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 11:35
  Ryan: Fox theme,
• 11:36
  Kearns: Yeah
• 11:37
  Ryan: And that was very different for that time, 'cause usually you
• 11:40
  just get the studio to promote what
• 11:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm
• 11:42
  Ryan: producing.
• 11:43
  But
• 11:43
  Kearns: trademarked transitions
• 11:45
  Ryan: yeah,
• 11:46
  Jon: Remember how simple those all were though too?
• 11:49
  Like, you'd get the drums, you know, MGM you'd get the lion roar
• 11:53
  Kearns: terminator too.
• 11:54
  Like
• 11:54
  Jon: but now,
• 11:55
  Kearns: too
• 11:55
  Jon: now, now they're like all like mini movies almost.
• 12:00
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 12:00
  Jon: You have the Pixar and the, like all that, that stuff.
• 12:03
  It's like this is like a two-minute just this is our production company's movie
• 12:09
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 12:10
  Ryan: doesn't hit any longer.
• 12:12
  Like, you see the whole castle and, the 3D projection, which is
• 12:16
  Jon: Yeah, it just
• 12:17
  Ryan: I need is the blue background with the white castle, the star going
• 12:21
  Jon: Yeah, yeah, and Tinker Bell flied through with her little magic dust,
• 12:24
  Ryan: Yeah, that's like we don't need
• 12:26
  Jon: Eh, it's enough.
• 12:27
  So
• 12:28
  Kearns: all you need
• 12:29
  Jon: back to Candyman and the urban legend element of it, that's where we jump off.
• 12:35
  Bernadette and Helen are doing a, the, I guess a master's thesis
• 12:39
  on urban legends, and they've stumbled upon the Candyman legend.
• 12:44
  for me, one of the things that I, I… rabbit holes I started to go down a little
• 12:48
  bit with this is urban legends themselves.
• 12:51
  Do you know how recent that phrase is?
• 12:55
  Kearns: Gotta be the 70s or 80s, right?
• 12:57
  Jon: '80s, yeah.
• 12:58
  Ryan: ages
• 12:58
  Jon: 1980s.
• 12:59
  It's, believed to be first used in a collection published
• 13:03
  by Jan Harold Brunvand.
• 13:06
  Kearns: Oh
• 13:07
  Jon: But like, you know, the, the urban legends themselves, minus
• 13:10
  the name, go back centuries.
• 13:12
  Like every culture has had them.
• 13:14
  The original intention is really, like, make sense of a world you don't understand
• 13:19
  and, it's then the dangers, you know?
• 13:21
  Yeah.
• 13:23
  Ryan: Yep.
• 13:24
  Jon: Yeah.
• 13:24
  Kearns: Don't make
• 13:25
  Jon: you know, y-
• 13:25
  Kearns: your cutie pie up at the, at but Make Out Point
• 13:29
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 13:30
  Kearns: you're gonna get it,
• 13:31
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 13:32
  Kearns: get pregnant."
• 13:33
  Jon: Yeah.
• 13:34
  Kearns: Pregnant."
• 13:34
  Jon: And
• 13:36
  Kearns: unalived."
• 13:37
  Jon: And you, you've, you know, you have the ones that are harmless, you know,
• 13:41
  the ones that are centered on, like, famous people, like the Marilyn Manson
• 13:45
  ones that we all knew without an internet
• 13:49
  Kearns: Yeah,
• 13:50
  Jon: maybe didn't even…
• 13:51
  Kearns: things about our generation right there.
• 13:53
  Ryan: know
• 13:53
  Jon: Yeah
• 13:54
  Ryan: about it?
• 13:55
  It's from my era and all that when we heard that rumor, it went from high
• 13:59
  school down to the middle school to us being like, "Did you hear what the
• 14:02
  middle school kids were talking about?"
• 14:04
  Jon: Ev- everybody knew.
• 14:05
  Like everybody knew like, oh, he's the kid from The Wonder Years, or he had a, a rib
• 14:12
  removed so he could do things to himself.
• 14:15
  Like,
• 14:15
  Ryan: was the one,
• 14:15
  Jon: those were the two.
• 14:16
  Like, the, everybody knew him.
• 14:19
  And locally, don't know if this was one that got to you guys, I
• 14:22
  won't go into specifics because it's particularly disgusting and
• 14:27
  weird, but the Richard Gere one too.
• 14:29
  I don't know if that one got to you.
• 14:31
  Kearns: Oh,
• 14:31
  Jon: I don't know if that…
• 14:32
  Kearns: everybody knew the Richard Gere one
• 14:33
  Jon: I, but I don't know how widespread that one was because…
• 14:37
  Ryan: Enquirer
• 14:38
  Kearns: John?
• 14:39
  Jon: Well, I mean, at least that, right?
• 14:42
  Kearns: Are we talking a hamster?
• 14:43
  What are we on now?
• 14:44
  Jon: yeah.
• 14:45
  Like that, that, that was like local, so like did that transcend into
• 14:53
  like other parts of the country, or was that just like, "Yeah,
• 14:56
  my, my friend worked in the…
• 14:59
  Yeah, my friend worked in the ER when he came in that way." Like you,
• 15:03
  Kearns: Oh,
• 15:03
  Jon: everybody knew a guy who knew a guy, and that's sort of
• 15:06
  how the urban legends all work.
• 15:08
  And then, you know, you…
• 15:11
  Ryan: sequel?
• 15:11
  Jon: Yeah.
• 15:12
  Ryan: Rodent?
• 15:13
  Jon: Yeah.
• 15:15
  You, you always, you've always had these s- these sort of scary ones too.
• 15:20
  You know, you had Bloody Mary.
• 15:22
  Like that goes back who knows how long.
• 15:25
  But that's always been there.
• 15:26
  And like you get the elements, like you could say Bigfoot is kind of urban legend.
• 15:31
  You can say all of that.
• 15:32
  Like, but now like you have like d- an invention of a whole new subset of
• 15:37
  them that are way more dangerous, not necessarily scary, but more dangerous
• 15:44
  because now you have, you know, you have these things living on in
• 15:47
  things like creepypastas and Slender Man, which then inspires two teenage
• 15:55
  girls to try to eliminate another teenage girl to appease Slender Man.
• 16:03
  Kearns: In
• 16:03
  Jon: you know,
• 16:04
  Kearns: John is talking
• 16:05
  Jon: you… Th- this is, yeah, this,
• 16:06
  Kearns: in
• 16:06
  Jon: You know, you range from the goofy, the funny to Slender Man to fictionally
• 16:14
  Candyman, who and Candyman is like pretty obviously a take on the Bloody Mary.
• 16:20
  You know, you say the name X number of times into the mirror, and it appears.
• 16:24
  But not e- even not every Bloody Mary myth I've found is violent.
• 16:31
  You know, sometimes it's just she comes and kinda helps you
• 16:35
  and comforts you and like…
• 16:37
  Ryan: I
• 16:37
  Jon: But
• 16:37
  Ryan: that
• 16:37
  Jon: yeah, no, I s- I stumbled on that.
• 16:40
  Like I always, I always thought that that was just like she's gonna
• 16:42
  show up and like it's on, but it,
• 16:45
  Ryan: Yep.
• 16:46
  Jon: Yeah, but it's not.
• 16:47
  Like it's not, it, it's not always been that way.
• 16:51
  Kearns: Borden, thing.
• 16:52
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 16:52
  Kearns: I wonder if
• 16:53
  Jon: Yeah.
• 16:54
  Kearns: something to do with Bloody Mary,
• 16:55
  Jon: I'm sure that plays into it as well
• 16:58
  Ryan: Lizzie Borden and Bloody Mary are connected, but like if
• 17:01
  you read some of like the urban legends, they are separated nowadays.
• 17:06
  Lizzie Borden with the ax, Bloody Mary with the ax,
• 17:08
  Kearns: Well, Lizzie Borden's not an urban legend though.
• 17:10
  Like Li- Lizzie Borden,
• 17:12
  Jon: Yeah.
• 17:13
  Kearns: been to her house.
• 17:14
  Jon: Yeah
• 17:15
  Kearns: Yeah, when they do the whole tour and they're like, "Well, allegedly when
• 17:18
  she came in." I'm like, "She's not around.
• 17:20
  You can just say it now.
• 17:21
  Jon: Yeah, she's not gonna sue you.
• 17:23
  Kearns: Yeah
• 17:24
  Jon: So, you know, from these urban legends, you get Helen and
• 17:28
  Bernadette now full-on investigating.
• 17:33
  Like, you know, at first it's just with the incoming freshmen and
• 17:37
  getting like, "Oh yeah, we've heard the Candyman story. A friend of
• 17:41
  a friend or my friend's cousin."
• 17:43
  And then, you know, you get to the point where one night Helen's working
• 17:46
  on it, and the cleaning lady hears the story and she says, "Oh yeah, my
• 17:49
  friend who's working down the hall knows about Candyman." And then that friend
• 17:53
  comes in and tells her the story of Ruthie May and gives it a location too.
• 18:01
  So it's now more than just like a bunch of freshmen are telling me this story
• 18:05
  about people who knew people who did this.
• 18:08
  Now it's, "Well, yeah, I knew of a person who did this, and here's
• 18:12
  where it happened," which gives them a, place to investigate.
• 18:17
  And there's two ways we can go with this because the story of Cabrini-Green
• 18:21
  is kind of like, you know, typical modern American failed city planning.
• 18:27
  And then the story of Ruthie May McCoy, who is the inspiration for the Ruthie May
• 18:34
  story in Candyman i- is really something to go into because it's, it's really…
• 18:41
  Kearns: yeah, it's a little spooky,
• 18:43
  Jon: It's, yeah.
• 18:45
  Kearns: One of those
• 18:45
  Jon: g-
• 18:46
  Kearns: call stories that you n- you kinda, if you were a cop, you
• 18:49
  don't wanna ever get that call
• 18:51
  Jon: Yeah, you don't wanna respond the way they responded.
• 18:56
  So it, it's a Chicago story, and it's in public housing.
• 19:00
  Ruthie Mae McCoy is a 52-year-old woman who was known to be paranoid, eccentric.
• 19:08
  You know, she dressed strange.
• 19:10
  She yelled at people in the, in the projects.
• 19:13
  Like, she was kind of an odd person to begin with.
• 19:16
  S- but that's doesn't seem to have been something that was known by police.
• 19:20
  It was just sort of locally known.
• 19:23
  So, April 22nd, I believe, of 1987, I couldn't find the year, at about 8:45,
• 19:29
  Ruthie Mae calls 911, and she tells the 911 operator that she can hear sounds
• 19:39
  that make it seem like the neighbors are tearing the place down, and then that
• 19:45
  the neighbors are trying to enter her apartment through the bathroom medicine
• 19:49
  cabinet, which we then see in Candyman, and is apparently something that was
• 19:55
  built into some of these buildings, these passages behind the apartments.
• 20:01
  Ryan: It's
• 20:01
  Jon: yeah.
• 20:01
  Kearns: The tenement corridors are so spooky
• 20:04
  Jon: yeah, I mean, that, that, and it, that m- that re- it really kinda
• 20:08
  surprises me that something like Candyman didn't exist before the Clive Barker
• 20:12
  story because the whole setup is there.
• 20:16
  You have everything you need to have that kind of scary story in these neighborhoods
• 20:21
  with hallways behind medicine cabinets.
• 20:25
  So she calls the 911 dispatcher, sends the police, but not as an
• 20:30
  attempted breaking and entering, but as a, you know, a disturbance call.
• 20:34
  So it's immediately less important to them.
• 20:38
  It's in the projects to begin with, so, you know, they're not super eager
• 20:43
  to go there because it's not safe.
• 20:45
  Kearns: Right
• 20:47
  Jon: He's, you know, and then it's not an urgent call.
• 20:50
  So within 20 minutes they get two more 911 calls.
• 20:55
  This time that, you know, there's shots fired in the neighbor's apartment.
• 21:01
  So that ups the call.
• 21:02
  Now you get a response.
• 21:04
  You get multiple cops on the scene.
• 21:06
  You get, you know, management from the building and they, the cops get a key.
• 21:14
  Key doesn't open the door.
• 21:15
  You know, they knock, no response.
• 21:17
  Key doesn't work.
• 21:18
  They knock again, no response.
• 21:20
  So now they're left with the decision, should we enter?
• 21:25
  We have reports of gunshots.
• 21:27
  We're not getting a response from inside.
• 21:29
  Somehow between the police officers on the scene and the building management, they
• 21:34
  become concerned that if they break down this person's door, they're gonna get sued
• 21:40
  Kearns: Amazing.
• 21:41
  This is the best
• 21:42
  Ryan: But this is like, this is an emergency though
• 21:44
  Jon: So they don't break down the door
• 21:50
  Over the next couple of days, there are more calls.
• 21:54
  There's more calls to 911 and to the police that, "Hey, we're worried
• 21:59
  because we haven't seen this person in a day," and then two days.
• 22:04
  So finally, the police are convinced to come back with
• 22:08
  management and a key that works.
• 22:12
  And they enter, and Ruthie Mae is no longer alive on the floor of
• 22:17
  her apartment, shot multiple times.
• 22:20
  Now, the coroner's report, she probably wouldn't have survived
• 22:28
  even with prompt attention.
• 22:30
  The pulmonary vein had been severed, it's not gonna do anybody any
• 22:34
  good, like, if she just bled out.
• 22:37
  Kearns: for Ruthie Mae though.
• 22:38
  Nobody
• 22:38
  Jon: No, no, no.
• 22:40
  Kearns: over her
• 22:41
  Jon: no one, nobody was really gonna sue for Ruthie Mae either.
• 22:44
  I mean,
• 22:45
  Kearns: That was probably the building owner who was gonna sue them
• 22:48
  Jon: Yeah.
• 22:49
  That was probably… way m- way more l- way more likely, and at that
• 22:53
  point it was still city controlled.
• 22:55
  Eventually, all, in, in reading about Cabrini-Green, in particular, was
• 23:01
  eventually taken over by the federal government because it had just become
• 23:06
  unmanageable for the city of Chicago.
• 23:08
  Kearns: Right.
• 23:10
  Jon: That's an extended story for another time, and maybe we need
• 23:13
  to lighten things up a little bit
• 23:14
  Kearns: a- Hey, I think it might be time for a game there, fellas.
• 23:17
  Jon: I think it is time for a game.
• 23:19
  Ryan: Or
• 23:19
  Kearns: Do you wanna play
• 23:20
  Jon: it is Stash or Slash, and we're gonna go back to the three movies to guess.
• 23:25
  If you guess it correct, you're gonna get a bonus stash.
• 23:29
  If you guessed it incorrect, you're gonna lose one, and this
• 23:32
  might be one you don't wanna lose
• 23:34
  Kearns: Ah, of course it is.
• 23:36
  Ryan: Let's see
• 23:37
  Kearns: Oh
• 23:37
  Jon: I am, I'm a pretty big fan of the, the list of movies I have, and I
• 23:43
  don't think it's super easy to guess.
• 23:46
  But let's see.
• 23:47
  Movie number one is
• 23:50
  Kearns: I remember this movie, and I know already what I think it is, but hold on
• 23:54
  Jon: Are we stashing or slashing colors?
• 23:58
  Kearns: I'm gonna slash Colors 'cause Robert Duvall trying
• 24:02
  to, like, connect with urban youth in this movie is so funny.
• 24:07
  Ryan: It's great
• 24:07
  Kearns: I think people should watch this film.
• 24:10
  Is it, like, the best movie in the world?
• 24:13
  No.
• 24:15
  it's not.
• 24:15
  It's not, like, super wonderful.
• 24:17
  Ryan: It's
• 24:18
  Kearns: You get the same thing out of Training Day largely.
• 24:20
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 24:21
  Kearns: in train- well, I guess it is cops in Training Day,
• 24:23
  Jon: Yeah,
• 24:24
  Ryan: I'm gonna slash it, but I'm trying to think of the theme.
• 24:28
  I'm going with something, but
• 24:29
  Kearns: Yeah, we're both probably on the same thing, but I'm thinking it's a decoy.
• 24:32
  Might be decoyed out
• 24:34
  Ryan: that's why I need to
• 24:35
  Jon: Oh, all right.
• 24:36
  Well, I'll give you a second film.
• 24:39
  We are going to the 1990 Night of the Living Dead, the Tom
• 24:44
  Savini Night of the Living Dead
• 24:46
  Kearns: Heart is important
• 24:48
  Jon: It's very important
• 24:52
  Kearns: That takes place in a city?
• 24:55
  Jon: It does not.
• 24:56
  Kearns: Okay
• 24:58
  Ryan: Are
• 24:58
  Jon: It…
• 24:58
  Ryan: with Tony Todd in them?
• 25:00
  Jon: They are Tony Todd movies
• 25:03
  Kearns: Nice, nicely done, dude
• 25:05
  Jon: There you go
• 25:06
  Ryan: I was thinking about it 'cause I was like Colors, but Night of the Living
• 25:09
  Dead, you actually gave a hint and you said it's the most important thing.
• 25:13
  And I said, "What's the one connection these
• 25:15
  Kearns: 'Cause like I, for one, I don't see color, so maybe I
• 25:18
  should get an extra stash too.
• 25:21
  W- and by the way, it's not we call people anymore, Ryan.
• 25:25
  It's not that time.
• 25:31
  Jon: Oh boy, before we get canceled, are we keeping Night of Living Dead 1990 or
• 25:36
  Kearns: am stashing that living dead
• 25:39
  Ryan: I'm stashing it as one of my four.
• 25:42
  Kearns: Four.
• 25:43
  Ryan: my
• 25:43
  Kearns: I knew I'd get you tonight, Ryan, and I did.
• 25:46
  gotcha
• 25:48
  Ryan: Oh.
• 25:49
  Jon: Great.
• 25:49
  So movie three.
• 25:51
  Ryan: wait till bring her back
• 25:53
  Kearns: ever happening.
• 25:55
  Jon: Movie number three
• 25:57
  Kearns: it.
• 25:57
  We'll do everything.
• 25:58
  I'm just never going to release the episode.
• 26:00
  Hatchet?
• 26:02
  Jon: That's it.
• 26:02
  Ryan: Ha- yeah, he's the, the
• 26:03
  Jon: Yep.
• 26:03
  Ryan: guy.
• 26:04
  Kearns: So much character in that hatchet too.
• 26:07
  Look at the chip in it and everything
• 26:08
  Ryan: You
• 26:09
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 26:09
  Ryan: Final Destination on here
• 26:11
  Kearns: Yeah, it most certainly does.
• 26:12
  Ryan: I was gonna
• 26:13
  Kearns: I'm not
• 26:13
  Ryan: the
• 26:13
  Kearns: a huge fan of Final Destination though.
• 26:16
  Ryan: The first one?
• 26:17
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 26:18
  First one was
• 26:19
  Jon: It, the, the first one is okay.
• 26:21
  After that, I'm not, I don't know.
• 26:23
  I can take or leave Final Destination
• 26:25
  Ryan: a
• 26:25
  Kearns: As a franchise?
• 26:27
  Ryan: No, one or two.
• 26:31
  Three's pushing
• 26:31
  Kearns: Not in love with it
• 26:33
  Ryan: I'm stashing Hatchet, by the way.
• 26:34
  I do like Hatchet
• 26:35
  Kearns: This is good, but I think I'm gonna slash it.
• 26:38
  Or maybe I'll chop it.
• 26:40
  Jon: Oh
• 26:41
  Kearns: Scopped
• 26:43
  Jon: Ah, chop it.
• 26:46
  Kearns: out
• 26:47
  Jon: All right.
• 26:48
  Movie, number four.
• 26:51
  Kearns: Oh, Ryan.
• 26:55
  Ryan: stash,
• 26:56
  Kearns: this is your last da-
• 26:57
  Jon: No, he's got one extra
• 26:58
  Ryan: have an extra.
• 26:59
  Kearns: I will also be stashing this movie.
• 27:03
  rain all the time, guys
• 27:05
  Jon: Oh boy, you're bo- you're both down to one.
• 27:08
  I know what's left.
• 27:10
  I know what's left
• 27:11
  Ryan: something?
• 27:12
  Jon: All right, so two s-
• 27:13
  Ryan: of the Living Dead.
• 27:14
  Kearns: This one
• 27:14
  Jon: two s-
• 27:15
  Kearns: the urban legend aspect too
• 27:16
  Jon: Yeah, it does.
• 27:17
  It does.
• 27:18
  Kearns: 'Cause Brandon Lee was fired upon with the incorrect projectile.
• 27:22
  Jon: Yeah
• 27:23
  Kearns: for making us censor things
• 27:26
  Ryan: It just,
• 27:26
  Kearns: for no reason
• 27:28
  Jon: It's so infantilizing
• 27:30
  Kearns: It is.
• 27:32
  Jon: Don't mind being creative, but, I am also not like… I have ways that I
• 27:37
  talk, and I have to change the ways I talk
• 27:40
  Ryan: It like makes us not fumble,
• 27:42
  Kearns: too late for me to, like, self-censor all the time.
• 27:45
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 27:45
  Kearns: we record these after a long work week on a Friday, everybody, so we're
• 27:48
  always, like, kinda barely clinging on.
• 27:51
  Jon: Yep.
• 27:52
  Kearns: All right
• 27:53
  Jon: Number five, Platoon
• 27:56
  Kearns: bro.
• 27:58
  Ryan: All right, I'm,
• 27:59
  Kearns: Bro.
• 28:00
  Ryan: I'm done.
• 28:00
  Stash
• 28:01
  Kearns: You are done
• 28:01
  Jon: Oh.
• 28:03
  Ryan: Stash Platoon.
• 28:04
  Kearns: do love Platoon.
• 28:05
  Ryan: I do love Platoon.
• 28:07
  Kearns: Willem Dafoe, Charlie Sheen's answer to Apocalypse Now, tiger blood
• 28:12
  Jon: Oh,
• 28:13
  Kearns: his veins
• 28:13
  Jon: We're gonna have some decisions to make with Ryan soon.
• 28:17
  Kearns: Oh, really?
• 28:17
  He's done.
• 28:18
  That was his last one
• 28:19
  Ryan: Oh, no,
• 28:19
  Jon: No,
• 28:20
  Ryan: I messed up
• 28:20
  Jon: We have, we're gonna have some decisions to make with, with Ryan.
• 28:25
  All right.
• 28:26
  Kerns, where are you?
• 28:27
  Kearns: I'm gonna slash Platoon just 'cause I have a feeling a
• 28:31
  movie I love more is coming up, so
• 28:34
  Jon: I mean, I think that's entirely possible.
• 28:37
  Next, The Rock
• 28:40
  Ryan: Oh, that's…
• 28:41
  Kearns: Carla was the prom queen.
• 28:44
  Let's just do one one-liner from each of these movies now
• 28:48
  Ryan: The supposed sequel to the James Bond
• 28:50
  Kearns: It's you.
• 28:52
  You're the rocket man.
• 28:56
  Jon: Well, we know what Ryan's doing here
• 28:59
  Ryan: Oh yeah, I'm slashing it.
• 29:00
  Jon: Oh yeah, 'cause you don't have a choice.
• 29:02
  Kearns: dude.
• 29:02
  This is a trap, John.
• 29:04
  This is a trap
• 29:05
  Jon: Oh, this is a big trap
• 29:07
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 29:08
  I love this movie too.
• 29:09
  I watched this movie, like, 100 times growing up.
• 29:11
  I love the lore too, that it's a continuation of James Bond.
• 29:16
  It's a pretty sweet little s- like, urban legend.
• 29:19
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 29:19
  Kearns: I love this movie so much.
• 29:21
  Why couldn't I have a million?
• 29:23
  Tony Todd was in so many good movies
• 29:25
  Jon: Yeah, it was.
• 29:26
  Ryan: Yeah, it was
• 29:27
  Jon: And it, the, these are, these are just the ones that I
• 29:30
  figured that you guys had seen.
• 29:32
  There's so many good, like Bee and Colt ones too.
• 29:36
  All right.
• 29:37
  There it is, Ryan.
• 29:38
  Sorry
• 29:40
  Kearns: Is this our last one?
• 29:42
  Jon: We have one left.
• 29:43
  Ryan: Oh, there's one.
• 29:44
  Oh, that,
• 29:45
  Kearns: I'm gonna
• 29:45
  Jon: is seven
• 29:47
  Kearns: too.
• 29:48
  Ryan: that's fine.
• 29:49
  You know what?
• 29:49
  It's one of those things where, if it didn't exist, I'd be fine.
• 29:52
  Kearns: I'd be happier
• 29:53
  Ryan: It, it, it existing, like, it kinda, it… I mean, in my
• 29:58
  universe it's gone, but in everyone else's universe where it exists,
• 30:02
  Kearns: The only thing,
• 30:03
  Ryan: one of those…
• 30:03
  it, it hits 'cause it's different, the
• 30:05
  Kearns: the only thing this really did to help the world was give
• 30:08
  us a little bit more Allie Larter
• 30:10
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 30:12
  Kearns: I can say
• 30:12
  Jon: I,
• 30:13
  Kearns: for Friday Night
• 30:14
  Jon: I love the first
• 30:16
  Kearns: There's a
• 30:17
  Jon: 10 or 15 minutes.
• 30:19
  Ryan: The plane
• 30:20
  Jon: The plane, I love that scene and those moments, and then after that it
• 30:25
  just… Like, there are parts throughout the franchise that live up to that.
• 30:29
  You know, the logs, and, like, there's some good stuff throughout, but it's
• 30:34
  just not a complete franchise for me
• 30:37
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 30:42
  Ryan: people unaliving and all that.
• 30:44
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 30:45
  Ryan: It just becomes redundant.
• 30:47
  Like it's cool, like the first time they do it.
• 30:50
  And the second time, okay, we up the ante.
• 30:52
  But then by the third one, we got tanning beds and a roller
• 30:55
  coaster that goes off the rails.
• 30:57
  Jon: Yep.
• 30:57
  Kearns: At the front man on this poster for a second and just see
• 31:02
  the sign of the times that that is
• 31:05
  Ryan: Oh,
• 31:05
  Jon: I out
• 31:06
  Ryan: Yep.
• 31:07
  Kearns: in the back.
• 31:08
  Jon: Yeah, no,
• 31:09
  Kearns: back.
• 31:09
  Jon: that's Devin,
• 31:10
  Kearns: in the
• 31:10
  Jon: Devin Sawa right in the front with the frosted tips
• 31:14
  Kearns: The way he's posed
• 31:16
  Jon: Yeah.
• 31:17
  Everything screams
• 31:19
  Ryan: I had frosted
• 31:20
  Kearns: Everything screams we're making money off of Scream,
• 31:23
  Jon: Yep.
• 31:24
  Kearns: We go
• 31:25
  Jon: All right, last movie.
• 31:27
  Fortunately, one of you can stash this.
• 31:31
  It's tonight's topic, Candyman
• 31:33
  Kearns: a, you've done that to us a few times now.
• 31:35
  Brutal.
• 31:36
  I will stash Candy Man.
• 31:38
  I would've had trouble putting this up against maybe… No.
• 31:43
  Actually, no.
• 31:43
  Ryan: you,
• 31:43
  Kearns: I could live with this instead of, like, The Rock and stuff
• 31:46
  Ryan: If you'd allow a trade, I'd trade
• 31:48
  Jon: Nope.
• 31:49
  your involvement in tonight's episode has come to an end
• 31:53
  Ryan: He, kicked
• 31:54
  Kearns: That's the consequence?
• 31:55
  He gets,
• 31:55
  Jon: Yeah, I mean, remember I said weeks ago, if you slash a movie, it's gone.
• 32:02
  It doesn't exist to you anymore, Ryan.
• 32:04
  Kearns: Can you imagine if that was true?
• 32:05
  Jon: I don't know what you're gonna talk about the rest of the night
• 32:08
  'cause you-- we're talking about a movie that doesn't exist in your world
• 32:12
  Kearns: There's no more of that
• 32:14
  Ryan: I still saw it yesterday, so it existed yesterday.
• 32:18
  Jon: Yeah,
• 32:18
  Ryan: It did
• 32:19
  Jon: but not today.
• 32:21
  But not today, sir
• 32:23
  Ryan: still, I still have a memory.
• 32:26
  Kearns: Gentlemen.
• 32:27
  Ryan: John.
• 32:28
  Jon: I mean, you can have a memory, but it's like the Mandela effect
• 32:33
  Ryan: Listen,
• 32:33
  Kearns: We never slashed Pan's Labyrinth, did we?
• 32:35
  I know I slashed The Thing, which I still don't forgive myself for
• 32:38
  Jon: No, Panz has always been saved
• 32:41
  Kearns: Yes, and ev- ever it shall be.
• 32:43
  You redeemed yourself too, for having watched that in a reasonable amount
• 32:46
  of time after we mo- we ridiculed you.
• 32:49
  We mock you.
• 32:51
  Ryan: No, I
• 32:51
  Kearns: I have to bring it up every five episodes to keep it
• 32:53
  in the Google SEO so we can be
• 32:55
  Jon: Yep.
• 32:56
  Kearns: with Pan's Lab.
• 32:57
  Jon: Yep
• 32:57
  Ryan: do you think I keep bringing back about bring her back?
• 33:00
  Kearns: Lord.
• 33:00
  'Cause you want us to be
• 33:03
  Ryan: If
• 33:03
  Kearns: associated with
• 33:04
  Ryan: hundred
• 33:05
  Kearns: movies?
• 33:07
  Ryan: us,
• 33:07
  Kearns: Horrible
• 33:08
  Ryan: likes, audience members, and we'll watch Bring Her Back soon
• 33:11
  Kearns: Good luck with that, Scooter.
• 33:14
  They're gonna have to dig through this for 36 minutes, and then they're gonna
• 33:17
  have to hear that, and then there's gonna have to be enough of them.
• 33:20
  I like my odds.
• 33:23
  Ryan: Clip in it.
• 33:24
  Kearns: It's like when they, the Make-A-Wish, people, like, t- sh-
• 33:27
  they tag Shaq or something, and then you, you stumble upon the
• 33:32
  tweet and Shaq never responded.
• 33:35
  That's how you're gonna feel.
• 33:37
  Like, "Come on, Shaq." "I'm in, I'm in Greece.
• 33:40
  I'll be back in a little while." It, it, but he doesn't have a lot of time.
• 33:43
  All right, let's move on.
• 33:45
  Jon: Hit the move button
• 33:46
  Ryan: this movie, was almost NC-17 when the NC-17 rating was very popular at that
• 33:53
  Kearns: When we were growing up, that was always like basically
• 33:55
  we thought that was a porn,
• 33:56
  Jon: Yeah.
• 33:57
  Kearns: Didn't
• 33:57
  Jon: yeah
• 33:58
  Kearns: back then that it could be like horrible depictions of violence
• 34:00
  and such, kinda like Bring Her
• 34:02
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 34:02
  It was still kind of a kiss of death though
• 34:05
  Kearns: Yeah, because it destroyed your box
• 34:07
  Jon: Like it, it, it wasn't the kiss of death that the X was.
• 34:12
  'Cause if you got an X, you weren't getting shown anywhere.
• 34:15
  Ryan: No.
• 34:16
  Kearns: nobody
• 34:16
  Jon: But the,
• 34:17
  Kearns: movie
• 34:18
  Jon: the NC-17 movies all really struggled too
• 34:22
  Ryan: They used to play, a couple of them at our local mall back in the day,
• 34:27
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 34:28
  Ryan: Like, doing a couple.
• 34:29
  Not me
• 34:29
  Jon: you'd,
• 34:30
  Ryan: but they'd advertise
• 34:31
  Jon: you'd get them at the independent theaters and stuff, but you'd almost
• 34:34
  never get them in like a Regal or a, a, you know, something like that
• 34:39
  Kearns: you gotta consider how much that space was to rent, and then how
• 34:43
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 34:43
  Kearns: each one of the theater's real time was worth.
• 34:47
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 34:48
  Kearns: a movie where you can't pack the theater with bodies, tickets,
• 34:52
  Jon: N-yeah.
• 34:53
  Kearns: with people who bought tickets, then you're really wasting…
• 34:56
  Jon: Yeah
• 34:56
  Kearns: now we see how they make up the difference.
• 34:58
  They charge $47 for a bucket of popcorn
• 35:01
  Jon: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:03
  And it was always, you know, sort of, to me also an issue of enforcement.
• 35:09
  Kearns: Hmm.
• 35:09
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 35:10
  Jon: how do you keep under 17… You can't, you- they couldn't
• 35:13
  keep them out of R movies.
• 35:15
  How are you gonna keep them out of an NC-17 any better?
• 35:18
  Kearns: door at our theater.
• 35:19
  Jon: Yeah.
• 35:20
  Kearns: to the same theater growing up, and we used to prop
• 35:22
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 35:22
  Kearns: people
• 35:23
  Jon: Absolutely.
• 35:24
  Kearns: kids come in the
• 35:25
  Jon: Absolutely
• 35:26
  Kearns: snitched back then.
• 35:26
  There would be adults in the theater watching you
• 35:28
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 35:31
  Kearns: Oh."
• 35:32
  Jon: As long as you came in and were reasonably respectful watching the movie,
• 35:37
  Kearns: Yep
• 35:37
  Jon: complained how you got in.
• 35:40
  You just couldn't get caught
• 35:42
  Kearns: We put, were $5.50, and we're not talking a matinee.
• 35:45
  It was $5.50 for a movie ticket back then,
• 35:49
  Ryan: Yep
• 35:49
  Kearns: we would have bought the ticket at 14, but we
• 35:52
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 35:53
  Kearns: an R-rated movie ticket.
• 35:54
  Jon: Yeah.
• 35:55
  Kearns: So we had
• 35:55
  Jon: Yeah.
• 35:56
  Kearns: the movie instead
• 35:58
  Jon: Yeah.
• 36:00
  Absolutely.
• 36:00
  He, he snuck into everything
• 36:03
  Kearns: Either
• 36:05
  Jon: One kid would buy a ticket if they could, or you'd buy the ticket to
• 36:10
  something else and you'd sneak into the other theater and let everybody else in
• 36:14
  Kearns: That was how we did it.
• 36:14
  We would get a ticket to something else, prop the door in the theater we wanted,
• 36:17
  and then boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, everybody would pile in
• 36:20
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 36:21
  Ryan: that's what, you told us the story when you went to see, Mystic River
• 36:25
  Kearns: Yep.
• 36:25
  Well, that was different.
• 36:26
  That was, at college, and We just walked into the other theater 'cause we knew
• 36:30
  the showtime was starting, like, minutes before the end of the other movie.
• 36:36
  Scary Movie 3 or whatever.
• 36:38
  We're not… Yeah, Scary Movie 3 I think we saw.
• 36:40
  we just went, whoop, right back in.
• 36:42
  Well, I, I told you, and I'll, I'll repeat it on this show.
• 36:44
  I loved Mystic R- It's a work of art.
• 36:47
  So I went out and I paid for the ticket.
• 36:50
  I just bought one for a different showtime, that's all.
• 36:53
  'Cause nobody… There was no reserved seats or anything back then.
• 36:56
  Just make sure that I gave my money to Sean Penn before he came and found me
• 37:01
  Ryan: Which, you know, the whole reserved seating, like get it.
• 37:07
  Just go find your seat and enjoy the movie.
• 37:09
  But no, you did the right thing with Mr. Grover.
• 37:12
  I actually, mentioned that, a few days ago, and a few people haven't
• 37:15
  seen that film, and I was like, "Oh, shocking." Yeah, and these,
• 37:20
  these people are very, like film and
• 37:24
  Kearns: Emmy Rossum
• 37:24
  Ryan: in film
• 37:25
  Kearns: film debut, or like at least close to it, I think.
• 37:28
  Emmy Rossum from Shameless is the daughter.
• 37:31
  And then she, I think immediately afterward did Phantom of
• 37:33
  the Opera or something.
• 37:35
  Then she did Shameless, but
• 37:37
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 37:37
  Kearns: works
• 37:39
  Ryan: I… She went on that deep end.
• 37:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 37:42
  Kearns: just I,
• 37:43
  Ryan: In Chicago
• 37:44
  Kearns: appreciated, I mean, this is way too far into this tangent for me, but,
• 37:48
  they, she said, I can never remember it.
• 37:51
  William H., What's his name?
• 37:52
  Macy?
• 37:53
  Jon: yeah
• 37:54
  Kearns: he was getting paid a ludicrous- because he's William H. Macy.
• 37:57
  Academy Award-winning William H. Macy?
• 37:59
  Am I correct with that or no?
• 38:01
  Just legend maybe?
• 38:03
  Yeah, we might have to look that up.
• 38:04
  He was getting paid
• 38:05
  Jon: I'm gonna
• 38:06
  Kearns: amount of money per season, and she was not, and she was
• 38:08
  carrying the show for the most part.
• 38:11
  She was, like, the main character.
• 38:13
  And she fought for, pay, and he backed her up, and he was like, "You have to pay
• 38:17
  her what, what she deserves." she ended up getting paid a ton more for the last
• 38:22
  three or four seasons, which was great.
• 38:25
  Ryan: Two Emmys
• 38:26
  Kearns: Did he win for, like, Fargo or something?
• 38:28
  Two Emmys
• 38:29
  Ryan: Emmys, four Screen Actor Guild Awards, been nominated for five Golden
• 38:33
  Globes and a Drama Critics Circle Award
• 38:36
  Kearns: But never an Academy Award nod
• 38:38
  Jon: He's been nominated he was nominated for supporting in Fargo
• 38:43
  Ryan: Okay.
• 38:44
  Kearns: did he lose to that year?
• 38:45
  John would know that.
• 38:46
  I…
• 38:46
  Jon: I'd have to look that up
• 38:48
  Ryan: going down that rabbit hole right now
• 38:53
  'Cause I'm kinda curious too.
• 38:55
  I was gonna say Joe Pesci, but that was 1990.
• 38:57
  Kearns: 'Cause that was a big year.
• 38:58
  I'm sure Fargo cleaned up.
• 39:00
  G- oh, dude, Cuba Gooding Jr., bro, in Jerry Maguire.
• 39:04
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 39:05
  Kearns: not winning that year, bro.
• 39:07
  Jon: Ah, I don't know
• 39:10
  Ryan: on,
• 39:10
  Kearns: should he have won
• 39:12
  Jon: Mm-mm.
• 39:13
  The,
• 39:13
  Ryan: He,
• 39:14
  Kearns: But
• 39:14
  Jon: the Cuba Gooding Jr. Yeah.
• 39:17
  Yeah
• 39:18
  Ryan: up.
• 39:18
  We got Edward Norton
• 39:20
  in
• 39:21
  Kearns: Add me at hello
• 39:22
  Ryan: Stampler.
• 39:23
  Like, that's… No, John?
• 39:25
  Jon: was good, but the movie wasn't, didn't hold up enough for him to win
• 39:30
  an award for it, I think is the problem
• 39:33
  Ryan: You wanna
• 39:33
  Kearns: There's that Richard Gere rumor.
• 39:34
  That's what did it
• 39:37
  Ryan: James Woods?
• 39:39
  It's Richard Gere
• 39:40
  Kearns: That's it, we got him.
• 39:42
  All right.
• 39:43
  Back to Candyman, everybody.
• 39:44
  So one of the things I like the best about this movie is the, way that they
• 39:51
  turn the villain into a tragic character.
• 39:54
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 39:54
  Kearns: That's not something every movie can pull off too well.
• 39:57
  I'm actually trying to think of an example of another movie where they turned
• 40:01
  him into a tragic character like this.
• 40:04
  Like Denzel Washington in Training Day
• 40:07
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 40:08
  Kearns: No, John's trying to rationalize it and he's like, "No, I was trying
• 40:11
  to turn it into a joke, but I couldn't figure out how to land it."
• 40:15
  Ryan: was, he was a good cop
• 40:16
  Kearns: Well, the thing is, is that he used to be King Kong who
• 40:21
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 40:21
  Kearns: Skull Island, right?
• 40:23
  But then Godzilla shows up and…
• 40:25
  Jon: but King Kong had nothing on him
• 40:27
  Kearns: There you go.
• 40:28
  Ain't got nothing- Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 40:30
  He didn't say, "I'm King Kong." He said, "King Kong's got nothing on me." So
• 40:33
  the whole thing falls flat, everybody.
• 40:35
  Good job.
• 40:35
  And we're leaving that in the episode just to show how stupid I am
• 40:38
  Ryan: the reason why Candyman is so tragic is as it opens, like, you
• 40:43
  get the urban legend and it's, like, this feared figure of Cabrini-Green.
• 40:48
  It's like their god in a way.
• 40:50
  Like, they fear their god.
• 40:52
  And it's tragic because you find out the backstory that he was just a
• 40:56
  painter, and he's, he was a slave, and
• 41:02
  Jon: He was high society for,
• 41:03
  Ryan: sorry.
• 41:04
  He wasn't
• 41:04
  Jon: for an African American in that time period.
• 41:06
  He was educated.
• 41:08
  He was cultured.
• 41:10
  You know, like he was a
• 41:12
  Kearns: May have been why he was probably helped for him being killed,
• 41:16
  Ryan: He
• 41:16
  Jon: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:17
  Ryan: Right?
• 41:17
  Jon: No, in the movie he's in Chicago.
• 41:21
  Ryan: He was in Chicago, which is
• 41:22
  Jon: Yes.
• 41:23
  Ryan: that…
• 41:23
  Jon: Yes
• 41:24
  Ryan: Well, I mean, fair Chicago, pretty open with that
• 41:27
  Jon: I mean, he,
• 41:28
  Kearns: in
• 41:28
  Jon: Yeah,
• 41:28
  Kearns: North, and then
• 41:29
  Jon: yeah.
• 41:30
  Kearns: in the North who
• 41:31
  Jon: Yeah, and he, and he's a free man who is educated, cultured
• 41:35
  in the North, and, obviously comfortable being around white women
• 41:41
  Ryan: 不 好
• 41:41
  Jon: to the point where he, you know, falls in love and impregnates a
• 41:44
  white woman, which leads to his end.
• 41:50
  You know, they, he is, he's, you know, he's lynched because of a relationship
• 41:58
  with a white woman, which, you know, plays into, you know, a pretty common racist
• 42:04
  fear of the time pe- at that time period.
• 42:08
  You know, the African American… They, they took our jobs, now
• 42:13
  they're taking our women, you know?
• 42:16
  It's
• 42:18
  Ryan: But you forget too that he gets eaten alive by the
• 42:20
  bees as he's getting lynched.
• 42:22
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 42:23
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 42:23
  So that,
• 42:25
  Jon: I know we've definitely talked about the clause in Tony Todd's
• 42:29
  contract in a previous episode, but, we should probably have it in,
• 42:34
  Ryan: absolutely
• 42:35
  Jon: in the Candyman episode that, you know, he, Virginia Madsen did
• 42:40
  not have the bees in her mouth.
• 42:41
  That's, you know, that's movie magic.
• 42:45
  Tony Todd did.
• 42:47
  Tony Todd did, and Tony Todd negotiated $1,000 per bee sting
• 42:54
  Ryan: I w-
• 42:54
  Kearns: Who do you think counted them?
• 42:56
  Ryan: Yeah, I was gonna say
• 42:57
  Kearns: Person who went into that mouth and was like,
• 42:59
  Jon: I would imagine, I would imagine you have it as somebody who's independent.
• 43:03
  I mean, if I'm Tony Todd, I'm like, "Yeah, so I got stung here, here,
• 43:06
  here, and like 60 times I think I got stung." He got stung 22 times officially
• 43:12
  Kearns: Officially 22.
• 43:13
  Ryan: That's, those are the times he remembered
• 43:15
  Kearns: a hard one, 22 grand.
• 43:17
  I
• 43:17
  Jon: we
• 43:17
  Kearns: grand right now.
• 43:18
  I don't know if I would take 22 bee stings in the mouth for it, though
• 43:22
  Jon: I'd be dead, so it wouldn't be worth it.
• 43:25
  Ryan: How
• 43:25
  Kearns: can we get
• 43:26
  Jon: I would be unalive
• 43:27
  Ryan: bees
• 43:28
  Kearns: is okay.
• 43:29
  I think it's the K word that's not okay
• 43:33
  Ryan: I'd still be safe with that.
• 43:35
  I think unalive, extinction,
• 43:38
  Jon: That's a lot of bee stings though.
• 43:40
  Like, even if you're not allergic, I think at some point you're allergic.
• 43:45
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 43:46
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 43:46
  Jon: That's a lot
• 43:46
  Ryan: would force you to be allergic.
• 43:48
  How many bees you think were in his mouth?
• 43:51
  it looked like a whole…
• 43:52
  Jon: A lot.
• 43:53
  Ryan: a whole nest
• 43:56
  Jon: Like they just, he just stuck the whole hive in his mouth
• 44:01
  Kearns: Yeah, it's spooky.
• 44:03
  Ryan: that
• 44:04
  Kearns: No other way.
• 44:05
  Ugh.
• 44:05
  Jon: Yeah.
• 44:06
  Ryan: But I feel like when you watch the scene, you can also see him react
• 44:10
  in a way as he's closing his eyes.
• 44:13
  Jon: Well, I mean, it kinda works because the, you know, he's
• 44:16
  a tortured, pained character,
• 44:18
  Kearns: That's
• 44:19
  Jon: and now, now you're getting that tortured, pained
• 44:22
  expression without acting it.
• 44:25
  He's getting his mouth stung by bees.
• 44:27
  You're gonna emote
• 44:29
  Kearns: That's true.
• 44:29
  That's method right there.
• 44:31
  Definitely method.
• 44:32
  But he's tragic, and it makes you side with him, which in
• 44:37
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 44:41
  Kearns: the
• 44:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 44:43
  Kearns: But is he the most tragic character in the movie?
• 44:47
  Jon: I mean, Helen's pretty up there.
• 44:50
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 44:50
  Kearns: what
• 44:51
  Jon: Helen's p-
• 44:51
  Kearns: a bigger villain
• 44:53
  Jon: I could argue Trevor.
• 44:55
  Kearns: You think
• 44:56
  Jon: I could argue,
• 44:56
  Kearns: a bigger
• 44:57
  Jon: I could, I mean, Ca- Candyman is kinda doing what Candyman does
• 45:01
  at that point, and, you know, he's… it's a vengeance thing.
• 45:04
  you're gonna F around and find out by saying his name in the mirror.
• 45:09
  You're asking for what Candyman brings to you.
• 45:13
  Trevor, I mean, right from the first time you meet Trevor, he's doing shady stuff.
• 45:18
  Like, he promised Helen he's not gonna do the urban legends myth that semester.
• 45:24
  He's gonna wait so that she can talk to the freshmen without them, you know,
• 45:29
  sort of being let in on these urban legends and it affecting their stories.
• 45:35
  He did it anyway.
• 45:36
  He's openly flirting with the coeds after his class.
• 45:42
  He's, like, not around, you know.
• 45:44
  Like, he comes, shows up late.
• 45:46
  It's like, you know, the middle of the night and he comes home from somewhere.
• 45:52
  And then as Helen needs him, he's becoming more absent until finally he's her
• 46:01
  phone call from jail, and he's not home.
• 46:05
  And
• 46:05
  Ryan: o'clock in the
• 46:06
  Jon: y- you can pretty much figure out where he is at that point, and then it's
• 46:12
  confirmed that within a month of her being hospitalized, he's moving in with, you
• 46:17
  know, a, a young, attractive blonde girl
• 46:22
  Ryan: That is definitely a villain role right there.
• 46:25
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 46:25
  Ryan: that's like the start of a villain arc,
• 46:27
  Kearns: If you're on the Hallmark Channel especially,
• 46:30
  Jon: Now, now I will say this, and spoilers, Trevor
• 46:34
  does sort of redeem himself.
• 46:37
  Like, at the end, he's really upset about what happens with Helen at the end
• 46:44
  Ryan: Yeah, I mean, he should.
• 46:45
  He should feel guilty for
• 46:47
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 46:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:47
  Ryan: Instead of helping her, he kinda let her go through her own demise in,
• 46:53
  Kearns: Yeah
• 46:53
  Ryan: own
• 46:54
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 46:55
  Ryan: her own urban
• 46:56
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 46:56
  Ryan: reaping the benefit
• 46:58
  Jon: They really hammer that point home at her funeral when the people
• 47:03
  of Cabrini-Green show up to put the hook in her, in her grave.
• 47:07
  I like that scene a lot
• 47:10
  Ryan: There's a lot of imagery in this film, and it goes with the
• 47:14
  painting, but it's the culture.
• 47:15
  And it's letting viewers of one culture, but many cultures into that world.
• 47:23
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 47:24
  Ryan: like you get a little history on it, and I feel
• 47:26
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 47:27
  Ryan: we were talking about it before the podcast, like the whole idea of like
• 47:30
  a lot of slashers during this time are either set in Chicago or New York City,
• 47:34
  which is like two epicenter of culture.
• 47:38
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 47:39
  Ryan: Like Candyman could be a defense of like the idea of social class too.
• 47:43
  with the idea of like Cabrini K- Green, the ghetto, the projects,
• 47:47
  compared to Helen and Trevor's life of being, you know, I would think,
• 47:52
  is she a s- she's a graduate student?
• 47:54
  I was thinking she's a teacher as well.
• 47:56
  Jon: I, th- they don't really
• 47:58
  Kearns: in
• 47:58
  Jon: establish a lot.
• 48:00
  Kearns: So there's a thing with, pre-doc candidates and stuff like that.
• 48:04
  They give lectures to college students, but they're not
• 48:07
  technically professors themselves.
• 48:09
  It's like part of this, you know, the
• 48:12
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 48:12
  Kearns: So that might be the thing.
• 48:14
  Jon: you know, the building she and Trevor live in is also
• 48:17
  a converted project building.
• 48:19
  Like it's, it was originally designed as a public housing building also,
• 48:24
  which was kind of gentrified, y- you know, c- before, really before we,
• 48:30
  I think we as a society understood gentrification in any way, shape, or form
• 48:36
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 48:37
  Ryan: Yeah
• 48:40
  Jon: but yeah,
• 48:41
  Kearns: Ab- absolutely.
• 48:42
  I don't know, one of the things I get into with this movie is just that
• 48:46
  it's, it was my introduction to Tony Todd being, like, a major star as
• 48:53
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 48:57
  Kearns: but this is the Tony Todd movie that put him on my map.
• 49:01
  Jon: Yes
• 49:02
  Ryan: Yep.
• 49:02
  Kearns: I don't know if he gets his flowers enough in the acting
• 49:05
  world, but he certainly does from us
• 49:08
  Jon: Tony Todd is one of those legendary horror people that, you
• 49:13
  know, those, outside of horror, you've maybe seen him in stuff.
• 49:17
  You've seen him in The Rock, you've seen him in The Crow.
• 49:20
  But like, he's, he's, he's kind of like in those movies, "Oh yeah, that guy."
• 49:25
  You know, he's the guy you recognize from stuff, not the legend
• 49:30
  Kearns: There wasn't really a big surge of that, like knowing
• 49:33
  who, let's see, Stanley Tucci is
• 49:37
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 49:37
  Kearns: or J.K. Simmons until somewhat more recently.
• 49:40
  And Tony Todd
• 49:41
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 49:41
  Kearns: into that category
• 49:42
  Jon: Yeah,
• 49:43
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 49:43
  Jon: definitely
• 49:45
  Kearns: Big supporting guy
• 49:46
  Ryan: it,
• 49:46
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 49:47
  Ryan: get a main role though, 'cause technically he is
• 49:50
  the, the titular character
• 49:53
  Kearns: No, you did not, sir. That was perfect.
• 49:56
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 49:57
  Kearns: tit
• 49:57
  Jon: Really?
• 49:59
  Ryan: Word.
• 49:59
  But like, he's really like, even though he's like in name the main character,
• 50:04
  and he is the main character in the film, he does have that supporting role
• 50:07
  though still, because it's more of Helen
• 50:10
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 50:11
  Ryan: journey.
• 50:11
  And it's very similar to, I don't know if you guys read the short
• 50:15
  story by Clive Barker, The Forbidden.
• 50:18
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 50:19
  Ryan: Yeah, it's very similar, besides like adding a few more elements to
• 50:24
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 50:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 50:27
  Ryan: England and Clive Barker being from England.
• 50:29
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 50:30
  Ryan: level.
• 50:31
  Kearns: I see that.
• 50:32
  Ryan: it though.
• 50:33
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 50:34
  And, just to sort of put a bow on this and to connect it to a prior episode
• 50:39
  when we talked about the 2021 version of Candyman, the baby that Helen rescues from
• 50:49
  the fire at the end is Anthony, who goes on to be the main character in the 2021
• 50:56
  version, who morphs into Candyman himself.
• 51:00
  Ryan: Yep
• 51:01
  Kearns: bum,
• 51:01
  Jon: And,
• 51:03
  Kearns: The legend
• 51:03
  Jon: know, you get, you get back to Cabrini-Green in the 2021 version,
• 51:09
  but there's no more towers because the towers were gone by that point.
• 51:13
  They tore the towers down over the course of the '90s and early
• 51:17
  2000s, and they left the row houses which you see in the 2021 film
• 51:26
  Kearns: I didn't know that.
• 51:26
  That's cool.
• 51:28
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 51:28
  Kearns: bit of trivia right there
• 51:29
  Jon: Yeah, so they, they sort of do tie that all in
• 51:33
  Kearns: And it's kinda nice too that they did that for Tony Todd as well,
• 51:37
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 51:37
  Kearns: live on through the remake
• 51:39
  Jon: Yep.
• 51:39
  Kearns: I felt,
• 51:40
  Jon: Yep.
• 51:40
  Kearns: that they were honoring him.
• 51:43
  Ryan: It's a recall
• 51:44
  Kearns: A requel, yeah.
• 51:45
  Not remake.
• 51:45
  Good call.
• 51:47
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Kearns: I feel like they were honoring him a bit, which is
• 51:49
  nice, and he deserved it too
• 51:51
  Ryan: that's… 100,
• 51:51
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 51:52
  Ryan: honoring him.
• 51:53
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 51:57
  Ryan: him
• 51:58
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 51:58
  Ryan: for the films that they were doing just because of, like, his
• 52:01
  influence, I guess, on certain actors and, directors, writers.
• 52:06
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 52:07
  Ryan: But, like, it's like he can do anything, and it can't be no wrong.
• 52:11
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 52:12
  Ryan: horror, like a Lance Henriksen.
• 52:14
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 52:15
  Ryan: even though he was, like, a big lead in The Wire, he steals the show.
• 52:18
  And, like, when he passed away, like Tony Todd, it's like it hits you in the gut
• 52:23
  Jon: I think Tony Todd deserves his flowers, and I th- I think, you know,
• 52:28
  I sort of expressed some displeasure with the Final Destination series.
• 52:35
  but one thing they did really well was his farewell in the most recent one,
• 52:40
  Kearns: Yes
• 52:41
  Jon: that scene is beautiful and powerful in a movie that
• 52:46
  really doesn't deserve that.
• 52:48
  But
• 52:49
  Kearns: It's the best part of the movie
• 52:50
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 52:50
  Jon: absolutely,
• 52:51
  Kearns: And
• 52:52
  Jon: And,
• 52:52
  Kearns: of a nice way to wrap up our episode on
• 52:54
  Jon: well, one other, little bit of trivia from this too that
• 52:57
  I wanted to bring up earlier.
• 52:59
  So the couple at the beginning, the first couple that, you know, the younger
• 53:03
  couple, the guy and the blonde girl who, you know, Candyman in the mirror.
• 53:08
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 53:08
  Ryan: Ted Raimi.
• 53:10
  Jon: Ted Raimi.
• 53:10
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Kearns: Did not know that.
• 53:12
  Cool.
• 53:13
  Jon: Yep.
• 53:13
  Kearns: Pretty cool
• 53:14
  Jon: The very recognizable Ted Raimi
• 53:18
  Ryan: I'm trying to remember his name from Hercules.
• 53:20
  He was the soldier
• 53:22
  Jon: Yeah.
• 53:23
  Ryan: all
• 53:23
  Jon: Well, I mean, he pops up in anything his brother did, in anything
• 53:27
  Bruce Campbell did, and then in a bunch of other stuff here and there.
• 53:31
  if either of them are involved, he's in it
• 53:34
  Kearns: Pretty sweet
• 53:34
  Ryan: s- I don't think Sam Raimi was involved in The Candyman,
• 53:37
  Jon: Yeah.
• 53:38
  He got a few, he got a few on his own.
• 53:41
  Ryan: I like Ted Raimi.
• 53:41
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 53:42
  Ryan: actor, very
• 53:43
  Jon: I mean, he is what he is.
• 53:44
  You know, he's never gonna be a leading man.
• 53:46
  but he's good
• 53:48
  Ryan: It's not
• 53:48
  Kearns: Stop.
• 53:50
  Jon: No
• 53:50
  Kearns: Ain't nobody ready
• 53:52
  Jon: Before we tell y- you guys what we think of Candyman, do you wanna
• 53:57
  hear what some other people think?
• 53:59
  Kearns: I almost forgot about the reviews
• 54:01
  Jon: All right.
• 54:02
  So Rotten Tomatoes, we have a 79% critic score, but only a 64% audience
• 54:09
  score, which kind of surprises me.
• 54:11
  And I noticed, you know, going through reviews, a lot of the bad
• 54:14
  reviews are people who just couldn't discern between 1992 and 2021.
• 54:21
  So you got some people complaining about the wrong movie in, in these reviews
• 54:26
  Kearns: Interesting
• 54:26
  Ryan: need to, they should watch the first one be- before watching the prequel.
• 54:30
  Jon: another thing I saw a lot that I don't believe I included in the
• 54:33
  ones we're gonna… a little bit.
• 54:35
  a lot of pe- a lot of the negative reviews claim racism, and we
• 54:40
  didn't go into it in this episode.
• 54:42
  I think when we do a Patreon we will.
• 54:46
  And we, you know, we'll sort of revisit Candyman to, to touch on heavier subjects.
• 54:50
  But anyway, five stars.
• 54:53
  This movie is an absolute classic.
• 54:56
  Tony Todd is excellent a- as Candyman, and Virginia Madsen as Helen is amazing.
• 55:03
  You want to root for her.
• 55:05
  The story is captivating, and some things throughout the film are
• 55:08
  bone-chilling, whether that be their death scenes and the consequences,
• 55:14
  or just the words that Candyman says.
• 55:17
  The writing is excellent, and all the messages they are trying to
• 55:22
  convey are done exceptionally well
• 55:26
  Ryan: That was well written.
• 55:28
  Jon: Yeah, it's a…
• 55:28
  Kearns: Corn's very well right
• 55:30
  Jon: I like that one.
• 55:31
  Kearns: the opposite point of view,
• 55:33
  Jon: All right.
• 55:34
  Kearns: exists
• 55:35
  Jon: no, it does.
• 55:36
  One star, and, this is one I'm not 100% sure they reviewed the right one.
• 55:42
  "Candyman is predictable, lengthy," it's an hour and a half, "and not very scary.
• 55:50
  On top of that, it delivers a rather racist worldview towards people of color.
• 55:56
  Boring,
• 55:57
  Ryan: they,
• 55:58
  Jon: unpl- boring, unpleasant, ugly, and stupid.
• 56:04
  The movie can only be recommended if you skip to the very few s- the very
• 56:09
  few scenes that involve the Candyman and leave out all the rotten filler."
• 56:17
  Kearns: Wow
• 56:18
  Ryan: this is someone who thought they were getting the new Candyman, I believe
• 56:22
  Jon: I suspect that they-- But because if you do a tiny bit of digging, like,
• 56:28
  you know, maybe a Google search, "Is Candyman racist?" You'll find that
• 56:32
  director B-Bernard Rose met with the NAACP with the script at the d- at the
• 56:39
  demands of the studio to make sure that we weren't producing a movie that was
• 56:44
  racist, and the NAACP signed off on this.
• 56:48
  And I mean, just the, just the use of the phrase people of color makes me sort of
• 56:53
  suspect that this is not a person of color
• 56:59
  Kearns: I'm guessing
• 57:00
  Jon: That this is someone that,
• 57:01
  Ryan: Yeah
• 57:01
  Kearns: there,
• 57:02
  Jon: you know, gets me.
• 57:02
  Kearns: this would be Patreon content, but there is such a thing
• 57:04
  as the pearl clutchers that overwhite knight for things that are issues
• 57:09
  Jon: Yeah.
• 57:10
  Kearns: folks
• 57:10
  Jon: Yeah.
• 57:11
  Kearns: It's like
• 57:11
  Jon: Yeah.
• 57:12
  Kearns: kind of bandwagon on
• 57:13
  Jon: Yeah, and I, I kinda feel like that's where that review goes,
• 57:16
  if it's even for the right one.
• 57:18
  and one more one-star review for Candyman: "Watching this in 2020 before the new
• 57:25
  one is released, and I'm not sure I want to make that mistake again. Candyman is
• 57:31
  the dumbest horror film I've ever seen."
• 57:34
  Kearns: You haven't seen enough horror films?
• 57:36
  Jon: Not at all.
• 57:38
  "The effects are worse than slasher films released a decade earlier, and
• 57:43
  there's absolutely nothing scary about it other than how utterly terrible it is."
• 57:52
  Ryan: The music, the atmosphere, Tony Todd's acting, the gore level,
• 57:57
  like you being on the edge of your seat while looking at a mirror.
• 58:01
  Like, come on, this person cannot say they did not jump when his
• 58:06
  Kearns: Yeah
• 58:06
  Ryan: cl- the hook goes through the mirror.
• 58:08
  Kearns: tainted from stuff too.
• 58:10
  I think, Get Out, Nope, and things like that, that are, they're
• 58:13
  agenda-driven movies, which is fine.
• 58:16
  They have a tremendous amount of, know, direction in one way or another.
• 58:22
  turns off certain people to movies like them and, Sinners, and then you get them
• 58:28
  watching classics that have nowhere near the amount of agenda, like Candyman.
• 58:34
  But just because it's got-- it touches on the subject,
• 58:38
  immediately go feral about it.
• 58:39
  So I think this might be a case of one of those
• 58:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 58:44
  Kearns: That's my take anyway
• 58:45
  Jon: so we heard other people.
• 58:48
  What do you guys think?
• 58:50
  Kearns: I give it four stars.
• 58:52
  and, before the rewatch, I might've given it three and a half based on memory.
• 58:56
  I didn't remember it being as good as it is.
• 58:58
  it's a good film.
• 59:00
  when I say film, you know I liked it.
• 59:01
  It's a good film.
• 59:02
  I like what they did with it.
• 59:03
  I like that the story is well-rounded.
• 59:05
  There's depth.
• 59:06
  There's dimension to it.
• 59:08
  And it, it works.
• 59:10
  It's just a damn good movie.
• 59:11
  And I watched it for the first time, once again, WPIX 11, 8:00, Halloween time.
• 59:18
  Candyman, Ninth Gate, all those movies were every year
• 59:23
  Jon: Yeah
• 59:24
  Kearns: What do you think, Ryan?
• 59:25
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 59:26
  I'm gonna give it four stars as well.
• 59:28
  introduced to the Candyman, like hearing it in school, the relationships, like
• 59:33
  the whole Bloody Mary myth, and having this urban legend during my time, 1992,
• 59:39
  and like being 95, elementary school, you hear it, and then you see it on Syfy
• 59:45
  or, you know, you accidentally see it on IFC or you're watching AMC Frightfest.
• 59:50
  Kearns: Yeah, we keep messing it up.
• 59:52
  It's fine
• 59:53
  Ryan: AMC Fearfest and watching it late at night, and you see, like, you say
• 59:57
  his name five times, it's something that stuck with me, and I love the film.
• 1:00:02
  the writing's done very well.
• 1:00:04
  It has a nice beat.
• 1:00:05
  It's not boring.
• 1:00:07
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:07
  Ryan: You kinda get into the psychological aspect of Helen and what everyone's
• 1:00:13
  seeing to what, like everyone's not seeing to what she's seeing, the whole
• 1:00:19
  dynamic of relationships, social class.
• 1:00:22
  a deep slasher film that didn't need to be deep, and it does it with a lot of credit.
• 1:00:28
  And I think it's something that everyone should give a chance,
• 1:00:32
  especially if you're into horror.
• 1:00:35
  watch the movie.
• 1:00:35
  It's just so good, and it's, it'll last with you, whether it's negative, as we
• 1:00:40
  heard, but I feel like people who watch our show will have a more of a positive
• 1:00:43
  reaction to it if they haven't seen it
• 1:00:46
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:48
  And I'm gonna go higher than you guys.
• 1:00:50
  I'm not gonna go as high as I would almost wanna go because if I d- i-
• 1:00:54
  Ryan: one.
• 1:00:55
  Jon: if I went as high as I wanna go, it then puts it in our Blue Star discussion,
• 1:01:00
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:02
  Ryan: Oh.
• 1:01:02
  Jon: it's not, it doesn't deserve that des- that level.
• 1:01:06
  But Candyman is a 4.5 for me.
• 1:01:09
  it hits, it hits the notes I want it to hit.
• 1:01:12
  It's got, you know, the Philip Glass score works.
• 1:01:15
  it's so atonal almost in spots that it creates an atmos- the, the
• 1:01:22
  music alone creates an atmosphere.
• 1:01:24
  And then, you know, you have a really solid story.
• 1:01:27
  You have a gr- great, some really great characters.
• 1:01:30
  Like it's, yeah, 4.5
• 1:01:34
  Kearns: Very cool
• 1:01:35
  Ryan: I was trying to remember what the score was, love it that they use
• 1:01:40
  like classical music, like piano.
• 1:01:42
  It just
• 1:01:43
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:43
  Ryan: the film so well.
• 1:01:45
  Jon: Mm-hmm
• 1:01:45
  Ryan: And I feel like that's like what like a lot of Clive Barker's are, is
• 1:01:50
  a lot of his works are very classical, depending on the era, the tone, and
• 1:01:56
  that's really what leads to my top five tonight, and that's top five Clive
• 1:02:01
  Barker projects, whether he's written, directed, or executive produced.
• 1:02:05
  And we're gonna start off with,
• 1:02:07
  Kearns: Nice
• 1:02:08
  Ryan: So number five, we're starting off with, one of my favorites
• 1:02:11
  based on his 1984 short story of the same name, The Midnight Meat
• 1:02:15
  Train, starring, Bradley Cooper,
• 1:02:19
  Vinnie Jones, Ted Raimi, Leslie Bibb, Brooke Shields.
• 1:02:23
  It's about a photographer who attempts to track down a serial killer dubbed the
• 1:02:27
  Subway Butcher and discovers more than he bargained for under the city streets.
• 1:02:32
  Really good twist for 2008, 'cause the, the ending really like,
• 1:02:36
  I watched it on like blindly.
• 1:02:39
  I didn't like spoil it for myself.
• 1:02:41
  It was on IFC one night, and that ending still holds up to this day, I feel.
• 1:02:46
  If you've never seen it… But for a first watch, the twist is what makes
• 1:02:50
  it, 'cause it goes from like this whole idea of a slasher film to something more
• 1:02:55
  menacing under the streets of New York City, which leads to my number four.
• 1:02:59
  It is a remake done very well.
• 1:03:02
  We're gonna do, executive produced by Clive Barker again, and that's
• 1:03:06
  the 2022 version of Hellraiser.
• 1:03:09
  Very close to the novel, which he wrote in 1986.
• 1:03:12
  The idea of Pinhead being more child and female-like is more apparent in this one.
• 1:03:18
  It gives you a little more with the Lament Configuration based on it
• 1:03:22
  not being a cube, but going through transitions and relating to each
• 1:03:26
  of the characters based on sin.
• 1:03:27
  And it was a nice change-up, and I feel like the tone of
• 1:03:31
  Hellraiser was done correctly.
• 1:03:34
  it's on Hulu.
• 1:03:35
  If you haven't seen it, get on it.
• 1:03:36
  And that leads to number three, which is, talked about this on the podcast.
• 1:03:41
  It was a little higher up, but I kinda re-changed my list a
• 1:03:44
  little bit, and that's Nightbreed.
• 1:03:46
  Love Nightbreed.
• 1:03:48
  It's a movie I'll never slash.
• 1:03:50
  The porcupine woman.
• 1:03:52
  I mean, or the bird woman.
• 1:03:54
  Is she a bird or a porcupine, Kerns?
• 1:03:57
  Help me out here
• 1:03:58
  Jon: I don't know, but that sounded like a challenge
• 1:04:01
  Ryan: What?
• 1:04:04
  You clean.
• 1:04:06
  What's that say?
• 1:04:08
  Kearns: Let's move on.
• 1:04:09
  Ryan: But love Nightbreed.
• 1:04:11
  Check out our episode where you can get more details on that,
• 1:04:14
  and that goes to number two.
• 1:04:16
  Of course, I have to mention the original Hellraiser.
• 1:04:19
  I can't mention Clive Barker without it.
• 1:04:21
  We've talked about it so many times.
• 1:04:23
  But my number one might swerve you, 'cause I actually like the
• 1:04:26
  sequel more than the first film.
• 1:04:30
  I love The Hellbound Heart, or The Hellbound: Hellraiser II.
• 1:04:34
  I love it more than the first film, just because I feel like Clive Barker,
• 1:04:39
  who, he, directed and wrote Nightbreed, Hellraiser I and Hellraiser II.
• 1:04:44
  Hellraiser I was basically his novella, but he changed it up with Kristi being
• 1:04:48
  more of a, daughter figure and more of a heroine, and he continues the story and
• 1:04:53
  he expands it more in the second one.
• 1:04:55
  And I feel like that's where he gets his niche, and that's
• 1:04:58
  where he steps out a lot more.
• 1:05:00
  It's like Tim Burton doing Batman.
• 1:05:02
  He did what DC and Warner Brothers wanted, which was Batman being
• 1:05:08
  a hero, and then Batman Returns was more of that Tim Burton film.
• 1:05:12
  like, Hellraiser was, you know, for the film and the horror and close to the
• 1:05:18
  novel, but II was him to expand on it and him to be creative, and it shows.
• 1:05:23
  But that's my top five for this week.
• 1:05:25
  I'm curious how you went with this.
• 1:05:27
  I feel like you went with Urban Legends.
• 1:05:29
  Jon: I did.
• 1:05:30
  Ryan: Ooh, okay.
• 1:05:31
  Jon: Top five urban legends
• 1:05:34
  Ryan: are we going, like, movie-wise
• 1:05:36
  Jon: Movies,
• 1:05:36
  Ryan: Legends better be on here
• 1:05:38
  Jon: In fact, number five, Urban Legends:
• 1:05:44
  Ryan: Yes.
• 1:05:44
  Jon: Mary,
• 1:05:45
  Kearns: Oh.
• 1:05:46
  Jon: not the original.
• 1:05:47
  Ryan: you went with the sequel.
• 1:05:49
  Jon: So there's a lot of movies based on the Bloody Mary legend.
• 1:05:53
  some of them not so good, some of them a little better, and it's, you know, it's
• 1:05:57
  say her name three times and the spirit of a bloody disfigured woman appears.
• 1:06:02
  so in this installment of the Urban Legends series, a group of
• 1:06:05
  girls summon her on prom night, and she arrives to ruin their night.
• 1:06:13
  Ryan: This is
• 1:06:13
  Jon: I think it is, yeah.
• 1:06:15
  Ryan: I didn't know there was more than two
• 1:06:18
  Kearns: There's way
• 1:06:18
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:06:20
  Kearns: That's why we were so enchanted them earlier in
• 1:06:22
  Jon: my number four is a movie I w- I, if it had been well e- as
• 1:06:28
  well executed as I wanted it to be, it would be number one by a lot.
• 1:06:32
  It's a movie called The Forest.
• 1:06:34
  so based on the Japanese legends surrounding the Aokigahara Forest, Sarah
• 1:06:40
  travels to Japan seeking answers after police call her and inform her that her
• 1:06:45
  sister is missing and presumed dead.
• 1:06:48
  With the help of a reporter and a forest guide, she goes looking
• 1:06:52
  for her sister in this notorious Japanese forest, which I cannot say
• 1:06:59
  the urban legend name because it…
• 1:07:02
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 1:07:03
  Jon: that word.
• 1:07:03
  Kearns: can't say that word.
• 1:07:05
  Ryan: It
• 1:07:06
  Kearns: That's where people go down a lot
• 1:07:07
  Jon: Yes, it the Unalive Forest
• 1:07:09
  Ryan: since
• 1:07:10
  Kearns: There you go
• 1:07:10
  Ryan: that's a positive that it was good.
• 1:07:13
  I've been wanting to see this for a while, 10 years now.
• 1:07:15
  it's hard to come by for me at least
• 1:07:18
  Jon: I wanted it to be great
• 1:07:21
  Ryan: Okay.
• 1:07:22
  I'm curious to see it now to see what your opinion of what
• 1:07:26
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:27
  Ryan: Trying to find
• 1:07:27
  Jon: Okay.
• 1:07:28
  Hey, you should watch it.
• 1:07:29
  number three, we're gonna go to one of my favorites, Larry
• 1:07:33
  Cohen and his movie The Ambulance
• 1:07:37
  Kearns: Bullants.
• 1:07:38
  Jon: Ambulance with Eric Roberts as Jacob.
• 1:07:42
  And the urban legend in this one is the organ theft or kidney heist.
• 1:07:47
  Kearns: Yeah,
• 1:07:48
  Ryan: Okay?
• 1:07:48
  Kearns: a good
• 1:07:49
  Jon: so Josh,
• 1:07:50
  Kearns: I don't know if that's so much urban legend as it is Bangkok legend
• 1:07:54
  Jon: so Josh Mee is a comic book artist who meets a woman, and they hit it off
• 1:07:58
  really quickly, and they're having a great time, and then she collapses.
• 1:08:02
  They call an ambulance.
• 1:08:03
  an old ambulance arrives and takes her away, but she never makes it to hospital,
• 1:08:08
  and Josh goes looking for her, through hospitals, and he, like, he starts
• 1:08:13
  to stumble into a mystery involving a strange doctor and missing organs
• 1:08:22
  Ryan: She
• 1:08:22
  Jon: Yeah, no, I love this movie.
• 1:08:24
  It's so forgotten.
• 1:08:25
  It's like late '80s, early '90s.
• 1:08:28
  You know, and it's Larry Cohen and Eric Roberts, and they
• 1:08:31
  could- they do a good job
• 1:08:33
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:34
  Jon: my number two is kind of a twofer because there, you know, there are two
• 1:08:38
  movies that really hit this urban legend.
• 1:08:40
  and it's When a Stranger Calls and Black Christmas.
• 1:08:45
  It's the, the, the call is coming from inside of the house urban legend.
• 1:08:51
  You know, very often it's tradit- it's traditionally a babysitter who's
• 1:08:56
  getting the call, taunting her from upstairs as in When a Stranger Calls.
• 1:09:01
  you know, and eventually the police trace it, as they do in Black Christmas,
• 1:09:06
  and find out in that case it's coming from inside the sorority house.
• 1:09:11
  But once you know that, it's probably already too late
• 1:09:16
  Ryan: 100%.
• 1:09:18
  Kearns: and you're number one.
• 1:09:20
  Jon: My number one
• 1:09:23
  this is one I didn't even know was an urban legend
• 1:09:26
  Kearns: Hmm.
• 1:09:27
  Jon: I went looking.
• 1:09:28
  It's The Hitcher
• 1:09:30
  Kearns: Oh yeah, I know about this one
• 1:09:31
  Ryan: yeah,
• 1:09:31
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  L- based on the, the urban legend of the vanishing hitchhiker.
• 1:09:37
  You know, you drive along a road and there's a hitchhiker, and you
• 1:09:39
  pick him up, and he'll eventually ask to get dropped off, and when you
• 1:09:44
  go to slow the car down, he's gone.
• 1:09:47
  in this case, in this case, the hitcher, the hitchhiker is, Rutger Howard,
• 1:09:52
  Hauer in probably his most beautiful unhinged role, as a psychotic drifter
• 1:10:00
  hitchhiker who takes out a lot of people and manages to blame it on a
• 1:10:06
  young man played by C. Thomas Howell.
• 1:10:10
  Everybody thinks he's doing it with the exception of a truck stop waitress
• 1:10:16
  played by Jennifer Jason Leigh, who joins with him in an attempt to
• 1:10:20
  stop the hitcher and clear his name
• 1:10:24
  Kearns: That's a good one for your number one.
• 1:10:26
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:10:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:10:28
  The Hitcher was on HBO all the time when I was a kid
• 1:10:35
  Kearns: Really?
• 1:10:36
  Jon: All the time
• 1:10:37
  Kearns: Interesting
• 1:10:38
  Ryan: it was a HBO exclusive movie at that time.
• 1:10:41
  Jon: I mean, almost every… When I started watching HBO movies, almost
• 1:10:45
  everything was an HBO exclusive 'cause there weren't other movie channels
• 1:10:49
  Ryan: Cannonball Run?
• 1:10:52
  Kearns: Jeffrey DeMunn is in that movie.
• 1:10:54
  Jon: Yep.
• 1:10:55
  Kearns: What
• 1:10:55
  Jon: no,
• 1:10:56
  Kearns: that guy in?
• 1:10:57
  Jon: it, it, The Hitcher has a rockstar
• 1:10:58
  Ryan: Archer.
• 1:10:59
  Jon: cast
• 1:11:01
  Kearns: Yeah, it's pretty solid all around, dude.
• 1:11:03
  But
• 1:11:04
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:11:04
  Kearns: guys, that's Candyman, the original.
• 1:11:08
  shout out to Tony Todd
• 1:11:10
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:11:12
  Kearns: great
• 1:11:14
  Jon: Re- rest in power, legend
• 1:11:16
  Ryan: Yep.
• 1:11:17
  You rest in power.
• 1:11:17
  Tim Curry is still alive.
• 1:11:20
  Jon: Tim Curry is still alive.
• 1:11:21
  Kearns: almost like he's flaunting it at this point
• 1:11:23
  Jon: yeah.
• 1:11:24
  Ryan: don't
• 1:11:25
  Jon: if you like what we do, follow us on YouTube at Xenomania50,
• 1:11:30
  Instagram at Xenomania50 as well.
• 1:11:33
  Xenomania Crew on Linktree, and anywhere you get your favorite podcasts
• 1:11:40
  Kearns: But never where you get your favorite pancakes,
• 1:11:42
  'cause we won't be there
• 1:11:44
  Ryan: No.
• 1:11:45
  Not
• 1:11:45
  Jon: don't know.
• 1:11:45
  It depend, depends where you get your favorite pancakes,
• 1:11:48
  'cause you might find me there
• 1:11:51
  Kearns: Nice.
• 1:11:52
  right, everybody
• 1:11:56
  Ryan: Have a good one
• 1:11:59
  Jon: There you are.