Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Interiors | Cheryl Durst | S8 E13
Transcript
- 00;00;04;03 - 00;00;22;28 Speaker 2 Hello, and welcome to the first ever, release of a live episode of Future of XYZ. We're here at Neocon, which is the, contract furniture trade show in Chicago, Illinois, recording live with Cheryl Durst. Cheryl, welcome to the Future of XYZ. 00;00;23;01 - 00;00;26;22 Speaker 1 Lisa, thank you so much. And not intimidated at all by live. 00;00;26;24 - 00;00;51;07 Speaker 2 No, not not at all. I did have one dry run yesterday, so I'm quite, quite relieved by that. You haven't had that privilege. Cheryl, for people who don't know you, you are the executive vice president and CEO of the International Interior Design Association, known as I. Ada, which is the trade body. There are two of you, but you're the biggest, managing and overseeing interiors, around the world. 00;00;51;07 - 00;00;55;08 Speaker 2 Really global. and you're based here in Chicago. 00;00;55;11 - 00;00;59;29 Speaker 1 It is so nice to be in a show that I don't have to sit in seats 7 or 8 on a. 00;01;00;03 - 00;01;01;25 Speaker 3 Plane to get to. Yes. 00;01;01;27 - 00;01;29;22 Speaker 2 I believe that. And and you're also an I have design award jury member for a long time, as well as many other accolades that we will speak to over the course of this podcast. But we're speaking today, for obvious reasons, about the future of interiors. Not a tiny topic at all. So we're going to dive in. and my first question, as I always ask, is, in the context of your expertise and experience, how do we define interiors? 00;01;29;24 - 00;01;51;28 Speaker 1 Quite simply, Lisa, interiors are the places that we inhabit and where we experience life and work and healing and learning. And I want to add that it's not just the places that we inhabit in real time, in real life, the places we inhabit in our imagination as well. 00;01;51;29 - 00;01;52;18 Speaker 2 Oh, wow. 00;01;52;20 - 00;01;56;27 Speaker 1 Interiors can be are just as real when they're virtual. 00;01;57;00 - 00;02;18;19 Speaker 2 Wow. That's wild. I that already opens up a whole bunch of questions. we're here, as we said, at the end of the kind of the last day of neo con, which is already the end or tail end of a flurry of interior shows that started in Milan. Right. And salon then went ICF in New York City, Copenhagen's this week. 00;02;18;19 - 00;02;30;22 Speaker 2 And then we were just talking about air where, we had to two weeks ago. Our last episode was actually with the CEO. your counterpart at air. What is the state of interiors today based on what you're seeing? 00;02;30;24 - 00;03;00;24 Speaker 1 I think the state of interiors is strong. I think that there are a lot of blurry lines, and I'm not saying that as a negative, I, I think once upon a time we could define the disciplines or if you're on the product side, the vertical markets within interiors. but you know, when we say hospitality now that encompasses an entire range of places and products and people, health care as well. 00;03;00;26 - 00;03;23;29 Speaker 1 education. Right. And so the lines between the disciplines, I think for all the right reasons, it's the passage of time, it's evolution. When you think about residential, for example, and what happens in that place we define as home. Homes have become places not just where we reside, but where we learn, where we heal. I think about as we age, you know what? 00;03;24;02 - 00;03;58;01 Speaker 1 How our homes support us in a number of different ways. We work in our homes. And so, hospitals have become, more community centers and libraries or community centers. And so I think it is causing designers and product manufacturers, by extension, to be more thoughtful about those things that we place in those places. And so, you know, the need for trade shows, they are as much about the communities, that traffic them and travel to them as the product that is on display as well. 00;03;58;09 - 00;04;11;02 Speaker 2 It's so imperative to have that community, especially in a design field. I feel like where people are riffing off of each other's ideas. And as you just said, interiors is kind of all encompassing. 00;04;11;04 - 00;04;31;17 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. In the the blur is interesting, right? I think the blur has become an interesting challenge. But when one discipline is is informing another, I think about, you know, the area of aviation in airports, or sports with stadiums, right. That is, you know, a sport. It's not just a sports facility. it is hospitality as well. 00;04;31;17 - 00;04;54;04 Speaker 1 And then how do we think about those places in the context of, of wellness? Right. Everyone experiences sports very differently. And so, you know, being, neuro esthetically sensitive. Yes. to how we perceive and live through certain experiences. Again, designers have acquired that expertise about thinking about human behavior in those places. 00;04;54;07 - 00;05;17;06 Speaker 2 And which is becoming more and more relevant. I mean, we talked about it actually, in all of my conversations that because I'm on this, like tear at the moment, it feels like of like interiors and architecture and the built environment and this neuro statics piece and like what we know about how our spaces impact our, our emotionality, if you will, is really our state of mind, let's call it that way. 00;05;17;06 - 00;05;51;05 Speaker 2 Our sense of security is really, amazing. You're interesting because you studied journalism at, Boston University. I bet you, you're also the first, I believe black woman or maybe black person to lead an international design organization, which is gives you a unique perspective on community, I think, and the diversity and inclusion piece of we're talking about neurodiversity here, but actually we're also talking about cultural diversity. 00;05;51;08 - 00;06;20;24 Speaker 2 And it's a it's an international industry. at Ida, as we said at the start, you guys are an international organization and you run multiple awards and you have lots of chapters, and you do educational programs and, and a lot of similar parallel paths to I have design talk about what practically community means in the interior space today, and how has the Ida mission shifted over the course of your pretty long, almost 30 year tenure there? 00;06;20;26 - 00;06;42;04 Speaker 1 that's such a great question. I can pass that in a number of ways, I think. But, this sense of belonging, you know, we all know what it's like to walk into a place you immediately, in some instances, feel an attachment, feel an affinity to that, that place. regardless of whether there are people in that place or not. 00;06;42;04 - 00;07;04;29 Speaker 1 But we also know what it feels like to not belong. That sense, you know, agitation or discomfort. I think design plays such an incredibly immense role in belonging and, you know, and I'm taking it out of the context of equity, diversity and inclusion, which which are three very important things to me personally as a black woman. 00;07;05;05 - 00;07;32;09 Speaker 1 But I also think creating equitable space, so that all people have a sense of comfort, safety and belonging in place. that has just been my mantra as a human, but certainly my mantra as the CEO of Ida. And I know walking in a CEO, this organization where less than 2% of the members look like me, less than 4% in the industry globally. 00;07;32;11 - 00;07;49;03 Speaker 1 Wow, are people of color. And so Ida has certainly looked at this from a longitudinal aspect. And so we've introduced programs like Design Your World, where we are introducing the viability of design as a career, to black and brown students. 00;07;49;03 - 00;07;50;00 Speaker 2 Interesting. 00;07;50;07 - 00;07;51;13 Speaker 1 Right. And that's a long game. 00;07;51;18 - 00;07;52;19 Speaker 2 Yeah for sure. 00;07;52;20 - 00;08;16;04 Speaker 1 And but we're investing in that, and looking toward the future of this profession, I've always said you can't design for the world if you're not of the world. And, you know, so increasing the diversity, both gender and, race and ethnicity, but also diversity of thought, designers come to design from so many different paths. 00;08;16;04 - 00;08;38;27 Speaker 1 And we see design as one of the most popular second career professions. And so I met here during the week a woman who was, a pediatric nurse and actually in pediatric oncology. Oh, she's burnt out, burned out. And growing up she always wanted to be a designer. Her, her mother was a nurse. Her parents encouraged her down to medical. 00;08;39;00 - 00;08;51;17 Speaker 1 but she is over 40 now and kind of doing what she wants to do. And she's pursuing a career in design. That's awesome. What she is bringing to her design career, having been a practicing nurse, what she is bringing to healthcare design will be absolutely. 00;08;51;19 - 00;09;30;11 Speaker 2 I love that as an example. And I I've noticed the same thing, but I haven't thought about it quite clearly. as you've just as stated, it and it's important, I think one of the things that is on everyone's mind right now is the role of technology. and obviously in your official role leading Aida. But in addition, you're actively involved in kind of the connection of this entire design professionals, whether manufacturers, whether designers, whether end users, employees, the whole the whole whole caboodle to promote this understanding, what is the role of technology as we're kind of moving 2026 and beyond in the future of interiors? 00;09;30;17 - 00;09;57;25 Speaker 1 Technology is an incredible tool for design, both on the product manufacturing side and on the, interiors on the designer side. As a practical tool that designers have at their fingertips. it allows more efficiency and allows designers to be more effective. If we're thinking in terms of AI right within the course of working design, I can assume some of the administrative tasks, some of the bureaucracy that takes away from creativity. 00;09;57;27 - 00;10;27;02 Speaker 1 I tend to be a champion of not being fearful of AI. I think, though, that it will force us and using force, I think it will force us to reclaim some of our humanity and be in thinking about how can we maintain human dignity and humanity, within the use of AI? it will require designers to become editors, or at least their editing acumen. 00;10;27;05 - 00;10;43;24 Speaker 1 using discernment and judgment, AI can iterate, you know, a thousand times a million. you are now having clients come to you with iterations of what they think their spaces should look like. And in those instances, that's when designers need to have a teachable moment sometimes with. 00;10;43;28 - 00;10;59;17 Speaker 2 Oh, I'm I'm loving the word. Discernment seems to be coming up over and over and over again as relates to technology and AI. And that's, as you said, it's a teaching moment when you have clients come to you, but it's also something we as an industry need to teach. 00;10;59;19 - 00;11;07;03 Speaker 1 Yeah. And it goes back to that core common skill for designers critical thinking. 00;11;07;05 - 00;11;07;23 Speaker 2 that's. 00;11;07;25 - 00;11;25;04 Speaker 1 And we need to think critically about the tools and the technology, but also helping those, our stakeholders, our clients to think critically. What design means to their organizations, to their brand, and to the humans that will that will inhabit those spaces that that we are creating. 00;11;25;07 - 00;11;45;11 Speaker 2 It's it's it's absolutely that I want to pivot for a quick second. you've been an I f design award. I f design obviously is the host of the I f design award, the largest independent design award in the world. I have design is the presenting, partner of a future of X, Y, Z. You've been a juror in interior architecture now for three years. 00;11;45;13 - 00;11;56;23 Speaker 2 What? Over the course of those three years, has kind of inspired you the most? And also in at I f but also your other work that you're seeing a progression in the industry. 00;11;56;25 - 00;12;28;22 Speaker 1 Lisa, I really enjoyed being on the Interior Architecture jury team. I've seen some incredible spaces, but the, proliferation of spaces that celebrate culture. So museums, from the large to the small, museums that celebrate, whether it's a tiny village, a fishing village in China that no one has ever heard of, with a visitor center. And it's like, first of all, I need to figure out how to get, some of these large scale exhibitions. 00;12;28;22 - 00;12;55;00 Speaker 1 I think this renewed focus that tells stories about humanity. and I think those are affirming to the people who belong to those cultures, but then inviting others to understand culture as well. And so whether it's a library or whether it's a museum or whether it's an opera house, the submissions that focus on culture have been the most fascinating and revelatory for me. 00;12;55;08 - 00;13;17;07 Speaker 1 There's also this, thin silver line of pride that runs through those submissions in the in the written word and in the visuals. And so this celebration of humanity, in the midst of looking at all of these incredible structures, incredible architecture, incredible interiors, the people piece, I love to see that celebrated. 00;13;17;10 - 00;13;35;22 Speaker 2 And it's is great. It gives me like smiles everywhere as anyone watching this will see. But I also am curious because I have is so global and I Aida is also so global. Is are there differences from the interior's perspective about how things are moving either geographically or culturally? 00;13;35;28 - 00;14;02;26 Speaker 1 I, you know, I don't think so. I mean, you know, in some places you'll see an emphasis on color or you will see an emphasis on decoration or augmentation. Right? some, some countries, you know, move in a more modern, clean, simple way. We see this in our in our own competitions at Aida and other cultures, you know, are just a profusion of so many beautiful things. 00;14;02;26 - 00;14;23;20 Speaker 1 But I have not seen vast swings between this is only happening in Turkey, and this is only happening in Argentina. because it seems world wide, the celebration of people and the thoughtfulness about people inhabit this place. And, that seems to be prevalent regardless of geography. 00;14;23;24 - 00;14;26;25 Speaker 2 It's kind of a convergence towards our shared humanity. 00;14;26;26 - 00;14;45;04 Speaker 1 Yeah, we are all, I will say. We're all at different places in our sustainability journey for sure. Right. you know, so there you might see some marked differences in how firms, are approaching sustainability. but that is really where I'm at. That's the only area where I'm really seeing some large areas of difference. 00;14;45;07 - 00;15;09;03 Speaker 2 I want to come back to sustainability because as you well know, that's a huge impact area for me. but speaking about impact, you speak quite publicly about the impact of culture brand in place. We've talked a lot about culture and place here, but the brand exploring that value of design as social, cultural, economic, as a force. 00;15;09;03 - 00;15;19;13 Speaker 2 And as we think about the future of interiors, what is the intersection of these considerations for you? And do you think that there's a good business case for integrating and elevating them together more? 00;15;19;16 - 00;15;49;18 Speaker 1 I think there is a fantastic business case for for integrating. And one of the areas that, I often talk about is joy, optimism. And, you know, where we are in a moment now, both here in the U.S. and worldwide, where consumer confidence, is at a low. And there are all kinds of reasons, right, that we can attribute that to, but just consumer confidence is required for the stock market. 00;15;49;20 - 00;16;18;18 Speaker 1 And consumer confidence is is an economic engine. And underlying that isn't, that that as human beings we need to feel safety, comfort and security and safety. Comfort and security are good business. Yeah. Whether I am a grocery store chain or whether I am a design firm, my ability to talk about human comfort and safety is powerful. we don't talk about psychological safety enough. 00;16;18;21 - 00;16;43;18 Speaker 1 We also we talk about data security and right safety, but, emotional safety, ecological safety, all of those factor into that, into that conversation around safety and comfort. and that is an economic engine. and it is it is again, it's a subtle line. and it's very nuanced, but it is an incredibly powerful economic engine. 00;16;43;20 - 00;17;20;11 Speaker 2 I am I, I'm blown away because I saw something on Instagram this morning that was actually about like, how cities aren't designed necessarily for women. And I sent it to Karen Reuter, who, you know, is is one of our fellow jurors, your fellow jurors, I should say jury chairperson, a friend of mine, and was on the podcast a couple weeks ago because she has this book coming out, manpower and about how the the world, especially the built world, but the world has built largely by and for men, historically speaking, and that sense of psychological and physical safety being good business to me is actually very telling about how do we coming back to 00;17;20;11 - 00;17;33;25 Speaker 2 the inclusivity, right, of all things? Because when you are safe and women have a lot of buying power not to not to not to mention other things, but this actually benefits everyone. So when you're talking brand culture and place, that convergence is really important. 00;17;33;29 - 00;17;52;21 Speaker 1 And and as a gender conversation, you're talking about the buying power of women. Women aren't just concerned with their personal safety. If they're ahead of a household, they're concerned about family safety as well, household safety. And so when you talk about safety to a group of women, it often has larger consequences. 00;17;52;23 - 00;18;01;02 Speaker 2 Yeah. And when you think that plays into the conversation around sustainability and and security and durability and things that might not necessarily otherwise be thought about. 00;18;01;02 - 00;18;01;08 Speaker 1 And. 00;18;01;10 - 00;18;23;13 Speaker 2 Resilience and always resilience, always resilience. as I mentioned, the episode as we're recording this that will be released this week. So the episode right before this episode is released, is with your counterpart at air, Carol wedge, talking about the future of architects as trade bodies, do you feel you faced similar or dissimilar challenges? 00;18;23;15 - 00;18;45;17 Speaker 1 I think there are very similar, challenges. Architects and interior designers obviously work very closely together. You know, the best design results when you don't know where one ends and the other begins, right? We we love to use the word seamless when we talk about those relationships. but certainly there are, you know, there are a lot of folks out in the world who purport to be design experts. 00;18;45;23 - 00;19;07;04 Speaker 1 That is a challenge. for our industry, the viability of architecture as a career in interior design, as a career. they are, I know in terms of interior design, that's not the first career choice. for a lot of folks, that's part of the reason for our design. Your world, of course, is talking to people about the viability of a career in design. 00;19;07;07 - 00;19;28;26 Speaker 1 more and more students are choosing to move into business or other forms, not seeing architecture and design as viable careers and useful career. and so we are continually needing to have that conversation that the world needs big time. You're thinking the world needs your left brain and your right brain. The world needs your heart and soul. 00;19;28;29 - 00;19;50;27 Speaker 1 life happens in spaces that are created by designers. Absolutely right. And and design is about what happens on the receiving end. And if no one is being thoughtful about the receiving end, you know, the world will rapidly devolve into complex complexity and chaos. So, absolutely, the world needs interior design and architecture. 00;19;51;00 - 00;20;12;25 Speaker 2 I couldn't agree more. As you well know, the shared mission, I think it's interesting as a separation, both cases for the profession, for the business, for the practice as a leader, especially in terms of the industry's evolution. as we talk about impact areas, is it are these technical professions. 00;20;12;28 - 00;20;17;17 Speaker 1 A great question? technical versus creative. 00;20;17;20 - 00;20;45;11 Speaker 2 I think I think, you know, there's this conversation, at least in the US, right, of especially architects recently, you know, calling it out nurses that these are professional, you know, degrees rather than or vice versa. And I think there's something really interesting about this. We need you in the world because everything is designed. And yet there's this kind of like reluctance, I would say, in certain bodies to so is it technical? 00;20;45;11 - 00;20;46;02 Speaker 2 Is it. 00;20;46;05 - 00;21;20;02 Speaker 1 Is. And I you know, it's interesting. That's a intriguing, proposition. But so is being an educator is the technical right I because technical knowledge and the use of these tools is so pervasive in any profession, I would almost argue that we are moving or have moved into a realm where, yes, professions are technical and necessary and creative and technical and necessary. 00;21;20;02 - 00;21;28;23 Speaker 1 It's, you know, it's there's almost like a leg now on that stool. Yeah. That we all need to be apt technicians. 00;21;28;25 - 00;21;41;13 Speaker 2 It comes in, comes back to the technology conversation that we started with, right with. If you don't have critical thinking and discernment and a and then a technical understanding of the tools and the possibilities, it's hard. 00;21;41;16 - 00;22;03;21 Speaker 1 Yeah. There is a judicious. Yes, I think that's required because technology could be defined as, hold. Yes. And not necessarily observant of the human soul, which is why you retain design to preserve the humanity and dignity. You know, in, in the created world. 00;22;03;23 - 00;22;32;12 Speaker 2 I love that. So again, a little bit of a pivot. I have to say that this I mean, you're recognized in the field for lots of things, but, you're recognized by Interior Design magazine as an ambassador for innovation and expansion and a visionary strategist. But perhaps more excitingly, in a couple of weeks, the week that this is coming out on Juneteenth, which is a federal holiday in the United States marking ostensibly the end of slavery. 00;22;32;13 - 00;22;59;10 Speaker 2 But let's for our international listeners, I'm not going to get into that right now. A whole, but it is a federal holiday that recognizes, the celebrate and celebrates blackness, I think in many ways. And the, the presidential library of our former president, Barack Obama is going to be opened in this city of Chicago on that date. which is all very exciting. 00;22;59;10 - 00;23;15;02 Speaker 2 You are also within the museum that is there, the contemporary Art Museum, part of an exhibition that's recognizing you. I believe it's for your, impact on your the impact you've had in inclusivity and change in the profession of design. 00;23;15;02 - 00;23;49;28 Speaker 1 Yes. There is an exhibition in the Obama Presidential Center that is called Imagine Your Impact. And, Mr. and Mrs. Obama, are firm believers in grassroots activism and as they say, the, extraordinary power of ordinary people to impact and affect change. And so the museum is not necessarily a monument to him. but really is testament to activism and the power of people, which they both recognized during his, during his tenure as president. 00;23;49;28 - 00;24;10;04 Speaker 1 And I am part of an exhibit of really ordinary folks out here doing our thing to, affect change in our industries. and so the exhibit that I'm a part of is really talking about inclusivity in a, in a profession. And so obviously my area was designed, and so and it really is just a meaningful moment. 00;24;10;04 - 00;24;30;15 Speaker 1 And what I appreciate about the museum is that it then asks you, what is your art? And are you interested in this organization, and how can you support Cheryl and Aida in moving design forward and exposing it to new communities? Yeah, cool that people are receiving the information they are asked to be a verb themselves. What will you do? 00;24;30;20 - 00;24;32;14 Speaker 1 That's cool. Yeah. 00;24;32;18 - 00;24;55;04 Speaker 2 That's cool. And I mean, I want to move on from this, but I also want to pause because when we were just getting prepped for this and you were sharing with me the museum's outline again, space. So there's architecture, there's place, and then there's the interior side. Just very briefly, what's your impression of the interiors of the the new presidential library. 00;24;55;07 - 00;25;15;10 Speaker 1 The new presidential library? And it actually is the first, presidential museum to have a public library. And so Barack Obama was the, is the first president to have a completely digitized archive. And so he was then able to use physical space to do a public library on the South Side of Chicago. So that in and of itself is incredible. 00;25;15;12 - 00;25;16;03 Speaker 2 Amazing. 00;25;16;09 - 00;25;38;14 Speaker 1 The art that is captured in the museum and so, you know, come for the art, stay for the activism. the art is incredible. There are over 30 artists represented, from, Nick cave to, yesterday to Kerry May Weems. it's an incredible collection of art that is moving and, inspiring. And then it is a celebration of words. 00;25;38;17 - 00;26;00;09 Speaker 1 Barack Obama is the consummate leader. And so, the lexicon of his speeches and and just the words he uses. So it's a celebration for all who love books and words and art and music. culture and culture. Yeah, it's it is an explosion of culture. Michelle Obama has a garden on the. It's 20 acres. The museum is the campus. 00;26;00;09 - 00;26;01;07 Speaker 1 Wow. 00;26;01;11 - 00;26;10;05 Speaker 2 On the south side of Chicago, which is historically, you know, underprivileged. I hate that word, but underprivileged. Under-resourced. 00;26;10;07 - 00;26;22;23 Speaker 1 You know, University of Chicago is in Hyde Park. It is a it is the most diverse part of, Chicago. but it is going to open Chicago that part of Chicago, to an entirely new audience. 00;26;22;25 - 00;26;27;06 Speaker 2 It's so great. It's so great. Which, of course, is the role of interiors and space in general. 00;26;27;13 - 00;26;29;19 Speaker 1 Absolutely. It is all about access. 00;26;29;22 - 00;26;47;22 Speaker 2 So we're going to do our a quick round because we of course can't get to everything that we want to. So the quick round allows us to at least touch on some of the topics. So I'm giving you, a few words about each topic in the context of Future of Interiors. Okay. You ready? I think so globalization. 00;26;47;25 - 00;26;52;02 Speaker 1 Pervasive. Necessary. Required. I gave you three. 00;26;52;09 - 00;26;56;27 Speaker 2 I love it, I love it Kraft. 00;26;57;00 - 00;27;07;27 Speaker 1 heart and soul. makes us human. Kraft is tangible. It's hands on, and it is required to tell us who we are and to tell others who we are. 00;27;08;00 - 00;27;10;09 Speaker 2 Supply chain concerns. 00;27;10;11 - 00;27;14;14 Speaker 1 Valid? 00;27;14;17 - 00;27;16;13 Speaker 2 training for the next generation. 00;27;16;18 - 00;27;27;13 Speaker 1 Necessary, and formally and informally. And training for the next generation. For me, means mentoring. we all have to step up our game around mentoring. 00;27;27;15 - 00;27;32;03 Speaker 2 I love that it's it's true. materiality. 00;27;32;05 - 00;27;51;27 Speaker 1 again, like Kraft necessary, material and materiality. Tangibility. Having something in our hand that's not a phone, not a smooth pane of glass. It is a, materiality is, is a reminder of kraft. It is a reminder of heritage. And, materiality makes us human. 00;27;52;00 - 00;28;00;17 Speaker 2 I love that, hospitality as a trend ou hospitality. 00;28;00;19 - 00;28;01;01 Speaker 3 People who were. 00;28;01;01 - 00;28;16;05 Speaker 1 Watching, they would have seen me make movies. Hospitality is so not a trend. Hospitality again is is necessary to all of the spaces that we inhabit. welcome. And being a good host. 00;28;16;07 - 00;28;36;01 Speaker 2 It's, it's a side bar, but, I hosted the then CEO of Six Senses Hotel Group on the podcast last year and the Future Hospitality and I what he said about it not being a trend. in all sorts of ways, was really interesting. And I actually quoted it on stage when I spoke yesterday for Design Milk. 00;28;36;01 - 00;28;43;19 Speaker 2 So I agree with you. And it was it was I know I saw the provocation. Sorry for that. I should have warned you. 00;28;43;21 - 00;28;47;04 Speaker 1 That it is not a trend. It's a sensibility I love. 00;28;47;04 - 00;28;54;11 Speaker 2 That's not a trend. It's a sensibility. Okay. A couple more interconnected ecosystems. 00;28;54;14 - 00;29;15;10 Speaker 1 Interconnected ecosystems, for me, starts to feel like a network. connecting, connecting the human world to the natural world. being conscious that, being conscious that the ecosystem is not separate from us, we require it and it requires us. 00;29;15;12 - 00;29;24;18 Speaker 2 And in the context of products, specifically where we talk about, like, I don't know, like lighting. Plus blinds plus an audio. 00;29;24;18 - 00;29;42;03 Speaker 1 Plus, I went straight to nature. But in, in terms of design, and I love the example that you use lighting. It's not a separate thing. right. It is all part of you. We're talking about a comprehensive and cohesive interior environment. Things like lighting, not an afterthought. 00;29;42;05 - 00;29;51;20 Speaker 2 Right? Yeah. The foundation really in many ways. Okay. We have, three more future of workplace. 00;29;51;22 - 00;30;16;01 Speaker 1 talking about future of workplace feels like it's been a a a trend. it is an ongoing conversation since before the pandemic. the workplace, while it may not some people would say it may not be alive and well. It's different. It's shifting. It's evolutionary. work happens everywhere, and we need to do a better job of acknowledging that. 00;30;16;01 - 00;30;41;14 Speaker 1 And, in a lot creating environments that allow work to happen in teams to meet or solo work to happen a lot easily. That means connectivity. That means give me those outlets in my hotel room so that I can get, it. I can learn about this when I get agitated. Yeah, totally. you know, I get tired of all of the articles that the workplace is dead because it. 00;30;41;14 - 00;30;43;18 Speaker 2 Is definitively not. 00;30;43;20 - 00;30;45;13 Speaker 1 20 years ago. That is dead. 00;30;45;15 - 00;30;46;04 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00;30;46;07 - 00;30;51;26 Speaker 1 but how we will work moving forward is very much an alive conversation. And it is so tied to. 00;30;51;28 - 00;31;03;07 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's economics too. I mean, at the end. okay. Last two human machine interaction in the context of the future of interiors. 00;31;03;09 - 00;31;27;15 Speaker 1 it will need to be flawless and seamless. the technology that we surround ourselves, should not make us feel like we're losing IQ points. It should not make us feel, you know, it should not make us feel awkward. human machine interaction will be a necessary interaction and just as we nurture human relationships, we're going to have to nurture our machines, 00;31;27;19 - 00;31;34;08 Speaker 2 As well. Fascinating. Okay. Anything that I haven't asked you about before we get to the last question. 00;31;34;11 - 00;31;35;16 Speaker 1 I think those couple. 00;31;39;05 - 00;31;53;20 Speaker 2 so I get to the last question. In conclusion, I ask every guest we have first question and last question only guarantees. What's your greatest hope for the future of interiors as we think about 25 ish years out? So that puts us in about 2050. 00;31;53;23 - 00;32;25;09 Speaker 1 Not that long from now. I hope that, in 25 years that we will all have the dignity of place. I think we recognize the power of place. But the dignity. Dignity of place and the places where work happens, the places where learning happens, the places where healing happens are open. They're accessible, they're readily available. They're well understood. 00;32;25;15 - 00;32;38;02 Speaker 1 And also in the context of well understood, that the profession of interior design is seen as essential and necessary and not as an added on luxury. 00;32;38;04 - 00;32;50;22 Speaker 2 With that, Cheryl Durst, EVP, CEO of the interior, International Interior Design Association. Aida, thank you so, so much for joining us live on future of Xyzzy at Neocon. 00;32;50;25 - 00;32;56;00 Speaker 1 All right. Thank you so much, Lisa. It was really fun, nerve wracking. But. 00;32;56;03 - 00;33;18;00 Speaker 2 you're great at this. I you got this all day. for everyone who is watching, this has been a really fun experience working with the GoPro 360 and special shout out to, the surround podcast, network producer Rob Schultz, who's sitting in the corner, for everyone listening, you should check it out on YouTube. 00;33;18;02 - 00;33;35;23 Speaker 2 but we're happy to have you leave a five star review so others can find us, and, we'll see you again in two weeks. Time for the episode with Brad Escalon on the future of Not Fast Furniture, which is also being recorded live at neocon. thank you, and we will talk to you soon.