Latest / Auto Collabs / Why We Should Let The Market Decide with Santosh Viswanathan

Transcript

Why We Should Let The Market Decide with Santosh Viswanathan · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  One year, I had my niece and nephew convinced that my natural singing voice- [laughs]... was an Aaron Neville impersonation. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs.
• 0:17
  So- So- [laughs] This was Christmas time. And I started singing, "Like a bird on a wire." [laughs] And they're like, "Is that your song?" They're like, "Yeah."
• 0:29
  They're like, "Sing, sing a Christmas song," 'cause it was Christmas. So I went, "And Jake can go far, and Jake can go far, and Jake can go all the way." That's perfect. It's amazing. The next day, they come for...
• 0:43
  So this was Christmas Eve. The next day- Uh... they drive back to our house for, for Christmas, and an Aaron Neville Christmas song is on the radio. [laughs] And they are ecstatic to- Gone...
• 0:54
  call me and say, "Uncle Mike, Uncle Mike, you were a... You, you are famous. We heard you on the radio." Oh, they really thought it was you. They really thought it was me. Dude, only you could pull a joke off like that.
• 1:06
  I, they- Only you. My, my nephew was probably 10 at the time. We didn't reveal the truth to him until he was, like, 17. [laughs] Oh. [laughs] It's like the age they told you Santa Claus was fake, too. It's a stage name.
• 1:18
  He still believed- It's a stage name... in Santa Claus, too. [laughs] Right? Yeah. Like, "And we thought you were white." [laughs] Right? Yeah. And so- Then they saw a picture of Aaron Neville...
• 1:27
  that leads into a confession about today's guest because- Oh, boy. You're really getting into this today, boy. Um, I felt, I- [laughs] I...
• 1:33
  Well, I felt bad deceiving them, and I felt like I was deceiving everyone at our SoDo Year-End Extravaganza because I wasn't quite sure if I was pronouncing our guest's name properly. You had me- You did so well...
• 1:47
  in Kyle's studio- And so confidently... doing the intros, and my biggest fear is getting somebody's name wrong. You just told me we, we nailed it, so that's a huge relief off my shoulders.
• 1:57
  Of course, we're talking about none other than Santhosh Viswanathan, the coolest name- Beautiful... I've heard in a while. Um- Beautiful name... we're gonna be chatting with him today.
• 2:06
  Um, you guys have gotten to know him a little bit better over the past few weeks. What, what are you looking forward to in this, uh, conversation with Santhosh?
• 2:13
  He's got a really balanced way and balanced approach, and we saw this at Year-End Extravaganza, and, and in some conversations we had with him after the event at dinner, um, and then in the, in between.
• 2:24
  He's, he's got a really balanced approach to saying when we're talking about progress and moving forward and legislation and the cons- what's best interest of consumers and the best interest of dealers.
• 2:36
  It takes a, a special person, I think, to balance all those out and communicate well on behalf of all parties involved. And so, um, I, I just really appreciate his posture in that direction.
• 2:48
  And, you know, I know in the interview we're gonna talk a little bit more about that. So, um, I, just, there's just some, a measure. I think measured. I would come up with the word measured.
• 2:56
  He seems to be one of the most measured people that I've met in the auto industry. [upbeat music] Yeah.
• 3:00
  Well, hey, look, listen, we hope that you enjoy this conversation that we got to have, uh, with a new friend and dealer, Santhosh Viswanathan. Santhosh, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.
• 3:15
  This is really the first time we're getting to sit down and have, like, a, a more quiet conversation. That's right. Good to have you here. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
• 3:23
  Um, so you've, you are, like, have a real unique position in not only the auto industry, but also in the state of Delaware, in the fact that you write legislation on behalf of the people. Meanwhile, you're also a dealer.
• 3:36
  So you kind of are in this place where you're balancing two worlds. Can you tell us, like, a little bit, like, how did you even get in this position? [laughs] So, um, I'm, I'm actually, um, a Delaware dealer.
• 3:46
  Plus, I'm also the, uh, legislative chairman for the Delaware Auto Dealers Association.
• 3:51
  In that role, what we do is we weigh in, um, with the state government, the legislature, to come up with what I call reasonable, sensible regulations that, uh, that positively affect the Delaware buying public when it comes to automobiles.
• 4:08
  So some of the things that we do is when it comes to raising fees, for example, at the- at the- at the- at the Motor Vehicle Department, it affects the affordability of vehicles to our consumers in Delaware.
• 4:21
  So we kind of weigh in. We kind of give them our feedback on how there could be another way to generate the state revenues without actually increasing the cost to the buying public. So that's just one example. Mm-hmm.
• 4:34
  The other example is, uh, we come up with legislation in working with the manufacturers when it comes up to anything involving transportation. Um, and that could be, um, conversations on warranty, uh, reimbursement.
• 4:52
  It could be, um, conversations regarding franchise laws. It could be anything, uh, transportation related.
• 5:00
  We weigh in because in the end, we're big employers in the state, and most, uh, and we generate quite, quite a bit of revenues for the state in terms of, um, the, the Delaware dock fees that is granted to us. Yeah.
• 5:13
  Oh, of course. Yeah, I mean, so the state, uh, we- we're a big stakeholder when it comes to transportation within the state of Delaware.
• 5:20
  And people like me, in a larger picture, do this on a- on- on a state level in every state in the US. Mm-hmm.
• 5:26
  And so, um, we, we, of course, we have an overarching, um, goal, which is to make sure that vehicles continue to remain affordable. Yeah. Can you go- So, and so... Go ahead, Kyle. Yeah.
• 5:39
  On the, because you're in the dealership and, and, and you do, and you are a dealer, you know, that gives you this practical insight into the way that consumers are kind of perceiving automobile purchasing, perceiving s- uh, affordability, engaging with the market, the type of demand.
• 5:55
  And you're seeing not just yourself, but other dealers in your area kind of react to current market forces.
• 6:01
  What are some of the things that-That you're seeing right now that the, uh, in consumer behavior at, like a s- uh, at, at least a city or regional level that are kind of impacting the way that you're starting to advise at the state level.
• 6:16
  So, um, one of the things that, that, that is, that is in front and center of us right now is the launch and the rollout of electric vehicles, which is a big deal.
• 6:26
  Um, similar to what we used to have when, uh, we migrated from gasolines to hybrid engines, um, the state reached out to us and we came up with the program, um, and this goes back a few years, in coming up with a rebate program that increased, um, adoption of hybrid vehicles and alternative energy vehicles.
• 6:46
  So one of the things that the State of Delaware did very well is the State of Delaware came up with its own rebate in addition to the federal incentives that helped the Delawarean, the, the Delaware resident, to get an additional incentive when they bought a hybrid or electric vehicle, which really helped a lot because it affected the monthly payments for the Delaware consumer when they bought a vehicle.
• 7:09
  Now, it's not available t- for a Maryland resident if they come to buy a vehicle in Delaware. [laughs] This is only for Delaware residents.
• 7:16
  So that's something that we worked in, in concert with the state to come up with a program that increases adoption for hybrids and electrics in the State of Delaware. So that's just one example.
• 7:26
  The other thing that we have in front of us right now is the State of Delaware, in conjunction with the Department of Natural Resources, is coming up with rules and regulations for a greater adoption of zero emission vehicles.
• 7:39
  So we're actively engaged in that conversation right now, which is, uh, which, which is a, a pretty big deal for Delaware.
• 7:46
  So, like the reason, one of the reasons we're having this conversation and kind of what spurred this, we met in Nashville for the first time, um, and really started talking about some of these issues that, you know, everybody of, of EV adoption, right?
• 8:00
  And how legislation could quickly, um, either go help the consumer or hurt the consumer in their general daily life, because there's a lot of kind of like pop culture momentum behind EVs right now. Yeah.
• 8:12
  And there's, there's, frankly, there's like a lot of political points that could be earned by appearing that you're in favor of something that people might be in favor of, but when it all comes down to it might actually hurt their daily life, and that's kind of what has spurred this conversation on.
• 8:27
  It seems to me that you're an advocate of taking, "Hey, we need to really have detailed conversation, take measured approaches," because one thing that we could do is really disrupt people's regular life in a very unintended way.
• 8:43
  So can you talk about like the dangers of moving too fast with this? Like how to- what's, what is it that you're kind of like throwing up the red flag about?
• 8:53
  There's always danger when you come up with the rules and regulations to increase adoption of certain technologies. I think the best way for market adoption for any new technology should be market-driven.
• 9:08
  Let the people decide which technology they like more, and then eventually you'll start to see the buying public using their wallets to let us know which, which type of vehicles they like, which type of technologies they like.
• 9:23
  So for example, I'm gonna go back a few years, when the migration started from gas to hybrids. The first few vehicles that came out in hybrids were not exactly desirable.
• 9:34
  [laughs] But when they went into- I was like, that's a very nice way to put that. That's a very nice way of putting that. [laughs] Not exactly desirable. They were terrible. [laughs] Yeah. They looked different.
• 9:43
  They looked kinda weird. But then the, but then the market let the manufacturers know what, how best to create hybrids that sell.
• 9:52
  And then of course, once incentives came in, once we started to see the demand pick up, we started, uh, stocking more hybrids.
• 10:00
  The manufacturers decided, "Hey, we need to make them beautiful, give them some great sex appeal." And then guess what happened? People started buying them up.
• 10:09
  Like for example, in, you know, we, we, we have Ford, we have a Ford dealership. The Ford Fusion, uh, hybrids and Ford Fusion electrics, we couldn't keep them on the lot because they were very popular vehicles. Mm-hmm.
• 10:21
  Mm-hmm. And that's what, that's where the market drives the buying habits, which is when people like us, the dealer, and the dealer body as a whole, start to stock more.
• 10:31
  And that, that is the philosophy that I'm trying to, um, I, I'm, I'm trying to em- emphasize here that let the market decide.
• 10:39
  Let m- let the rules and regulations not be put in place in such a way that we're forcing the market in, in one way, and then guess what? The people can't afford it.
• 10:48
  If y- l- the, when the market decides, the affordability will start to come in play via incentives, w- via lower monthly payments. Mm-hmm. Whatever the case may be, but the market is never wrong.
• 11:02
  That's such a great point. Yeah, you know, it's, it's an interesting way of looking... It's, it's not an interesting way of looking at it. You know, we see this in, in other markets, right?
• 11:09
  Um, th- you know, there was a, a lot of people talk about like iPhone adoption and smartphone adoption, and the way that like if you would've, uh, you know, put any legislator around like the way that a consumer would need to buy that, that type of good, um, m- maybe we would've been all still on BlackBerrys, right?
• 11:27
  Yeah. Because that was what everyone kind of perceived as the way to go.
• 11:31
  Um, I know that's like, uh, a much different purchasing power, uh, you know, and an element in the market, but it, it is, it's, it's very clear to me that a, a market will consistently run to the thing that the general market wants to be a part of.
• 11:47
  And, you know, the, the, uh, one of the things that we were talking about before this call is that, is that the segments of the market within buying power for vehicles are much different in the way that they engage with those cars on a regular everyday basis, including where they even park their car and how that affects their ability to buy a certain type of vehicle.
• 12:09
  Can you talk a little bit about like how you're seeing that and how you're seeing like Delaware as compared to a major metro or, or the places that, that, that you're at, and how consumers are interacting with their vehicle on a day-to-day, including the way they're parking them, and how that impacts purchasing decisions?So I'm gonna go back to, uh, your comment on BlackBerry to iPhone.
• 12:28
  When we moved from BlackBerry to iPhone, the reason it was popular is not only was the iPhone at the cusp of some really good cutting-edge technology that the people embraced, the monthly payments were very affordable that were, uh, subsidized by the carriers.
• 12:44
  Mm-hmm. Okay? So if you came up with an iPhone and you threw a monthly payment out that people could not afford, it probably would not have taken off as well. But what- guess what happened?
• 12:51
  You have a great product that people love and desire at a monthly pe- at a, at a monthly payment that people can afford. Mm. See, that- Mm... that, that was the secret sauce, right?
• 13:02
  And we go back to the same thing in the automobiles.
• 13:04
  Right now, the state of Delaware is talking about ca- uh, following California, um, uh, rules and regulations by making, um, gas- ICE vehicles, which is gasoline-powered vehicles, um,
• 13:19
  they wanna phase it out to the point that in 2035, we will not be able to sell gasoline vehicles in Delaware. What if there is, like the market that we're going through right now, there's a war?
• 13:34
  What if there's a short supply of components that goes into the battery that is affected by some disruption in pandemic or war or any natural disaster? What are we gonna do?
• 13:45
  Tell the buying public that there's no batteries, so therefore they cannot buy a car, that they need to go to the other state next to us to go buy a gasoline-powered vehicle because Delaware made it illegal for the Delaware dealers to buy a gasoline-powered vehicle in Delaware in 2035?
• 14:02
  And then what- And is that, is that consideration for only new vehicles right now, or is that, uh, new and used, what Dele- The pro-... Delaware is looking at? The proposal right now is for new vehicles. Gotcha.
• 14:12
  Because if you cut off the new vehicle supply, there's no used vehicles in the market. Eventually, right. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So, so that's where we think that this is, this conversation needs to be,
• 14:24
  uh, there needs to be more thinking behind this because just making it illegal for the State of Delaware dealers to sell ICE gasoline-powered vehicles in the State of Delaware is just not, I don't think it's, it's the right move.
• 14:34
  I think the mar- if, let the market decide. Let's not g- jump the gun and make rules and regulations that make the sale of, of gasoline-powered vehicles in Delaware by Delaware dealers illegal.
• 14:45
  That's just not the right answer. Because if people want the vehicle, they're just gonna go to another state and buy. Right. And there's a lot of options- Yeah, you know, we, we ran the-... when you're in Delaware, too.
• 14:53
  Yeah. Yeah, we ran this segment at the Year in Extravaganza that was called the Year 2030, right? Yeah.
• 14:57
  And I know this is kind of a look at the year 2035, and it was in jest in a bit because there's a lot of manufacturers talking about 2030.
• 15:04
  There's a lot of state governments and manufacturers talking about 2035 as target dates that are somewhat arbitrary. They're put on the fives. Yeah.
• 15:13
  Uh, you know, which is kind of a round number that a lot of people like to place targets on. Yeah.
• 15:17
  But they are kinda arbitrary, and they don't, they don't take into consideration what the market may or may not do over the next seven, uh- Yeah... or 13 years, and I think that's what you're saying.
• 15:28
  Like, hey, if the market decides and the market demands that w- they only want ICE vehicles by tw- or, uh, EVs by 2035, the manu- factor's probably gonna make them like that.
• 15:39
  But if, if they're not demanding that, if they're not d- shifting their buying behavior enough, then most likely that'll be pushed out, right? Like- Correct...
• 15:48
  you're, you're saying, hey, there may be a situation by 2030, the manufacturers are just forced by way of what people are asking for in the market to only, you know, to move to 90 or 100%.
• 16:00
  Uh, i- and if that's what the market says, let's go that way. But if the market says it needs to be 2040 or it's 2041 or 2050, let the market decide.
• 16:10
  It, it, it's just at the market's time, whether that's faster or slower. So I'm gonna give you a good example of California. California decided that they were gonna be done with nuclear power plants.
• 16:20
  But just a couple of months ago- Yeah... Governor Newsom said, "Oh, well, wait a minute." Extended the leases, right? [laughs] Or Yeah. Not so fast. The permits. Because guess what?
• 16:27
  The conditions on the ground has changed since the legislators created something like this a few years ago. The conditions on the ground should dictate what's happening in the marketplace. Mm. You know?
• 16:40
  The, m- if, if, for example, if all the manufacturers decided that they were going to only produce electric vehicles, and they only push out electric vehicles, what would be the need for the state of Delaware to say it's gonna be illegal to sell gas vehicles?
• 16:54
  Right. None. There, there are no gas vehicles, so why would you even say that it needs, gonna be illegal? There's no need for such a law. Yeah. There's no need for such a rule. Yes.
• 17:03
  And by putting such a conversation into the hands of, uh, Department of Natural Resources, I think the state is bypassing the legislature, who is, who are pretty much elected by the people, in probably speaking to what the people might actually want.
• 17:21
  Because- Mm-hmm... y- you know, this is kind of bypassing the legislature as a whole by just putting it in the rules and regulations, um, box, if you will. Right. So it's not, it's not...
• 17:31
  It, it is a law, but it's a law by way of rules and regulations, not by a way of, you know, thoughtful debate, public opinion, right? And, and listening to the voices of, of the people. You know, let's talk for a second.
• 17:43
  Let's just shift.
• 17:44
  Um, we're talking about not being able to buy an ICE vehicle by 2035 in the state of Delaware as the proposed, you know, rules and regulations, but let's talk a little bit more practically for a moment, because, um, EV, EV life is a different way of, you know, it messes with your routine, right?
• 18:00
  And it changes your routine, and, you know, there are a lot of conversations about, like, well, if you have a house with a garage and you can plug in, well, then that seems kinda convenient, right?
• 18:09
  I don't have to go to the gas station anymore, right? We can just plug the car in, it's ready to go in the morning. But what is the situation in Delaware?
• 18:16
  Lots of people don't have a house with a garage, which seems like it'd be a much quicker disruptive impact than just banning the sale of the cars.C- correct. Um, I lost you guys there for the- Oh, okay...
• 18:30
  but, so- So basically the question is this: can you, can you talk for a minute about all the other contingency disruptions that happen once you start to only have an EV when it comes to charging, just general lifestyle, getting to and from work?
• 18:43
  Like, what, what do you see as the, the real reason that Delawareans should be paying attention to the conversation that you're having right now? Okay. So one of the, um, one of the, um...
• 18:53
  So we've had some of these calls with the Department of Natural Resources that, um, invite some of the public, some stakeholders, to get in on these phone calls.
• 19:01
  One of the things that one of the stakeholders said is for all these EVs that are in front of some of these grocery stores, when you go in, let's just say there's 10, well, 10 chargers.
• 19:10
  What we're finding out is that out of the 10 chargers, maybe only four work. Oh, wow.
• 19:14
  And when you go into the grocery store and you ask them, you know, or you tell them that, "Look, this charging station's not working," the employee at the grocery store doesn't even know who owns their EV chargers.
• 19:23
  Right. They don't even know whom, they don't even know whom to tell you to call. Right. And who do you call? You know, you've been waiting in line for 30 minutes just to get to the charger.
• 19:30
  You pull up, you pull up in line and you find out that out of 10, only four work, and now the line is getting longer. That's one conversation we need to have.
• 19:37
  So clearly s- the maintenance of these chargers is a big deal. Mm.
• 19:40
  Number two, I spoke to a mom, um, that lives in an apartment, and I was just kind of giving her some insights on, on this new proposed rules, and the first thing out of her mouth is, "Well, I live in an apartment.
• 19:52
  There are no chargers. I park my car on the street. What's gonna happen to me when this law goes into effect?" Right now she can go to a gas station and get gas. W- th- there are no chargers on her street.
• 20:03
  Who knows if there is going to be? And you got, you know, all these people living in condos and apartments. Where are they gonna charge their vehicles? Well, okay, they go to work and they have a lunch break.
• 20:13
  They can charge it during lunch break. Right. There goes the lunch break. Right. When, where are they gonna charge? Because everyone is doing the same thing at that time. Right.
• 20:19
  They're all trying to get to the charging station, and now here you're gonna have a line during lunch break, and it does, it's just not, it's not, it- It needs time, right? We need time to think about it.
• 20:28
  And back to the, the conversation about the market driving demand, right? When the market has the demand, there'll be 100 chargers at the grocery store, right? Yeah.
• 20:36
  Because it'll be a pla- which starts to shift that whole, hey, if you live in an apartment, you charge at the grocery store or you charge at the office 'cause the parking garage is wired up with chargers, right? Yeah.
• 20:45
  Like, it gets there. Right. But just, like, that, like, it, back to the California conversation about the nuclear power plants, like making a rule and then being like, "Oh, well, actually- Maybe not...
• 20:55
  we'll just leave it open." Yeah. [laughs] It's the opposite though, because the infrastructure doesn't exist. At least with California, it's like, well, we won't close the thing that's already working. Yeah.
• 21:03
  It's a lot different than like, oh, we have to make these appear out of nowhere.
• 21:07
  Um, Santosh, so one of the big parts of dealer life is serving the community, and again, back to the beginning of our conversation, you serve the community by providing transportation and mobility, but you're also serving Delawareans by making sure that their interests with transportation are represented well in the community.
• 21:26
  How can they, you know, help you do that, help you represent them well? Like, what should the, the average Delawarean who might think, "Well, 2035's a long time away.
• 21:35
  I don't really have time," or, "I don't need to pay attention to this conversation right now," what would you say to them?
• 21:40
  The, the one and only thing that needs to happen is the Delaware public needs to be engaged in this conversation, because when I go around town and I have these conversations with the regular people, first thing that people, they're in shock.
• 21:52
  They can't even believe something is, something like this is being discussed where they have no choice or option to charge a vehicle- Mm... at the, at their place of, of, you know, where- wherever they call home.
• 22:02
  So the first thing that needs to happen is the Delaware public needs to get engaged, and they also need to get educated on what's coming down the pike if they don't, if they're not engaged in this, in this conversation.
• 22:14
  Because in the end- How do they do that? How do they do that?
• 22:16
  Well, they have to, they ha- the, the one, the one thing that we would want people to do is to let the Department of Natural Resources, which is DNREC in Delaware, know how they feel and, a- and how this will affect their lives if these rules really go into effect and not let the market decide.
• 22:35
  You know?
• 22:35
  They, the, the people need to voice their opinions by way of a phone call to the Department of Natural Resources or to the state legislature or to the state representatives or to the state senators so that everyone is listening and everyone, uh, uh, is commenting on how they really feel about these rules and regulations.
• 22:56
  Because I can just tell you that 2035 comes around and we don't have enough chargers, and the cars are not being built, and they're only electrics, and the prices are sky-high, where some of the new legislation that's come down from DC, for example, the Inflation Reduction Act, and s- some people refer to it as the IRA, it has taken away some of the incentives that would subsidize the monthly payment on some of these electrics.
• 23:21
  So the same electric that was, that is today, since today's the, the last day of December, the same electric that has incentives today, in the first week of Ja- January, those incentives go away. Right.
• 23:34
  So the, the price of ownership of these electric vehicles are also simultaneously going higher, which is als- which is then gonna make it unaffordable to the, to the buying public. One quest- one more question.
• 23:47
  Uh, we only have a, a few minutes left, but that's to the consumer. What do you say to the other dealers and dealer associations around the country? Because you're kind of at the tip of the spear on this conversation.
• 23:57
  We haven't been hearing a lot, but it's, it's definitely going to start coming up more and more.
• 24:01
  What would you say to the dealers and dealer associations around the country, uh, whom, whom you know this conversation is gonna be at their doorstep? So every dealer has a dealer association in their state.
• 24:13
  Um, on a local level, every dealer needs to be deeply engaged with their, um, automobile dealers association so that the, so that the conversation can happen and not be in a position of being reactive.You know, so for example, when, uh, during COVID, when the states around us were shut down from, from doing business, for example, the, the state of Pennsylvania, the Delaware dealers could not stay open.
• 24:44
  Until after the governor decided that it was gonna be shut down is when they started to be reactive.
• 24:50
  Whereas in the state of Delaware, we sat down with the governor and we made a case for why we thought, why we thought that the Del- that the Delaware dealers need to stay open.
• 24:59
  So we were not reactive, we were proactive- Nice... in engaging with the state government to come up with what I call reasonable solutions. Mm-hmm.
• 25:07
  As opposed to the states around us, where the governor just shut down the states and said, "Sorry, no more car sales." Mm-hmm. Right. Those dealers had a very tough going. Yep.
• 25:17
  Well, and I think, I think what you've presented is, and, and I love that you said reasonable solutions. You're not saying absolutely no one way or the other.
• 25:25
  You're saying, "Hey, look, the consumer, the dealer, the legislative arm, all need to be on the same page, all need to be moving in the same direction."
• 25:33
  And there's good legislation and there's, there's, there's things that will put, uh, you know, things in motion to help move things along, especially in EV or in anything that has to do with mobility or dealers.
• 25:45
  Uh, but also, hey, let's be- let's pay attention to the market forces.
• 25:48
  Let's pay attention to the consumer, care for the consumer, uh, with both the way that we do business and the legislation to make sure, uh, the consumer can always, uh, drive the market and, and drive, uh, what we make and sell.
• 26:01
  So, uh, Santosh, it has been a pleasure, uh, hanging out with you today, learning from you, and, and giving you the ability to kinda share with us and, and the ASOTU community and the, and the broader, uh, consumer community at large, uh, what Delaware and other dealers are doing to, to make sure that consumers are cared for in, in the legislative arm, and, and appreciate the work that you do and, and for being on with us.
• 26:23
  I just, I, I just wanna add one thing. Yeah. I think all the, all the dealers in the US love electric vehicles. It is not that we have a distaste for it. We love them. Right. We sell them. That's how we make our money.
• 26:34
  But we just feel like the rollout should not include anything that makes it illegal to sell gas engines. Yeah. That's, that's a great point, and, uh, I think well-stated at the end.
• 26:47
  I, I, I don't think anyone would disagree with you there. Thank you.
• 26:52
  [upbeat music] One of the things that stands out to me about the kinda overarching narrative of this conversation with Santosh is the fact that, and Kyle, you were mentioning, this is pretty much the, what we think the foundation of what our industry believes as well is, you gotta let the market decide what it wants.
• 27:11
  Um, that's a fundamental business concept.
• 27:14
  There's so many business owners out there struggling right now because they're doing something that in their gut they think is just gonna make them money or maybe it's a quick win.
• 27:23
  And they rack their brains about, "Why isn't this succeeding? Why am I never getting ahead?" And it's like, well, because maybe you forgot to ask your customers.
• 27:30
  Maybe you forgot to ask the people that are actually going to exchange their hard-earned dollars for whatever it is you're trying to sell.
• 27:38
  And certainly, that seems to be the case with what, uh, Santosh is dealing with in his home state. What were some of the insights that stood out to the two of you from that conversation?
• 27:47
  Well, yeah, I think it, it's interesting that, like, anecdotally, but I don't think it's anecdotal, that when he talks to or when other people in his position are talking to consumers, they're almost completely unaware that the political narrative is, "We have to move this way."
• 28:03
  And many of them are saying, "Hey, look, EV is kinda scary to me. I don't know if it's something that I would do," or even, "How am I gonna charge?"
• 28:11
  W- you know, like, we think range, range anxiety is the biggest thing, but it's actually much more for the majority of the market, is what he's saying. It's, it's, like, not even, "Can I get the range?"
• 28:21
  But, "Can I even charge my car?" Charging, right. "Will I have access to that, um- Right... as an apartment owner or as, um, you know, a renter? And, and who's gonna be responsible for that?
• 28:31
  How am I gonna have access to that?" And then just the general knowledge.
• 28:34
  And so really this letting the market decide needs a lot more education, um, around the, the electric vehicle, even i- i- if that's even the way that the market demands us take it.
• 28:46
  Um, so I think that, like, the media and the political narrative is what he's saying is, is not that, uh, EV isn't a good thing or that it might not be the best thing.
• 28:55
  It's just that we, we need to k- kinda take a step back.
• 28:58
  And, and as Delaware and other states are kinda looking to the New Yorks and the Californias making these big, broad decisions, going, "Hey, let's take a measured approach.
• 29:06
  Let's make sure and get in front of more consumers and have that conversation." I mean, his, uh, his whole heart behind this, this interview, as we actually learned off-camera, was, "Hey, I, I wanna utilize this
• 29:18
  to allow me to share it with more people, with m- media outlets, with, with different people that can actually bring this to consumers and say, 'This is a conversation that we wanna have.'"
• 29:27
  And I, I think that most consumers would enjoy that as, as the narrative, is, "We wanna have this conversation." I don't think any- anybody, and speaking specifically of consumers, enjoys being, uh, the ragdoll. Mm.
• 29:41
  Being pulled between, you know, political points and things that affect their daily, everyday life.
• 29:49
  And, you know, when he said in the interview, you know, he talked to one of his employees, and they say, "Well, if this deal goes through, I'm screwed."
• 29:55
  And they talked about their situation and how, um, it would really affect that negatively or be unsustainable. And so just the bridge, I think dealers have an opportunity here.
• 30:06
  The bridge between what's in the best interest of the consumer is their, it's their opportunities to be an advocate for the consumer very openly and aggregating that consumer, um, you know, sentiment and the consumer attention toward the political decisions that are being made
• 30:22
  probably for political points more than in genuine belief in an EV future when you look at the, the length of term limits and things like that. So, um, it's good to be a part of that.
• 30:32
  It's great to be a part of that conversation. And, uh, I am convinced that, uh, whatever consumers pay attention to enough, and whether that is products or it's politics, uh, things tend to move in that direction.
• 30:44
  So, uh, thanks for joining us again. On behalf of Kyle Mountsier, the one and only Michael Cirillo, and myself, thanks for joining us on Auto Collapse. Thank you.
• 30:54
  [laughs] Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U.com.
• 31:08
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 31:16
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Why are we recording? [laughs] Are we rolling yet?
• 31:33
  Not yet.