Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Conor Oberst

Transcript

Conor Oberst · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin Today, we're welcoming to the show, Connor Oberst out
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of my interview with Connor, I spent two weeks catching
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: up on albums of his that are perennial favorites, or
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: albums that I missed, or albums and EPs I just
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: haven't heard in a long time, And in that two
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: weeks I remember just how wonderful his catalog of music is.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Often his music gets pegged as being maybe only sad,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: But Connor's music, whether it's with Bright Eyes, Deciparcidos, the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Mystic Valley Band, Monsters of Folk, Commander Venus, his solo works,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: or his stuff with Phoebe Bridges, is not one dimensional.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It's dynamic. It's deeply smart, captivating, funny, sometimes biting, and
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: because it's a lovely blend of all these things, along
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: with yes, sometimes melancholy, it's above all joyful. His catalog
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: is also deceptively large, especially when considering it age, which
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: overwhelmed me a bit going into this conversation. Where do
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: you start with someone who's been making music and writing
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: songs at a high level since around nineteen ninety five?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And I guess the answer is you start at the beginning,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: which is what we did. But I hope longtime fans,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: new fans, and even people who've never given his music
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: a shot get a lot out of this episode. Connor's
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a real force in music, and at the risk of
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: sounding trite all the way from his earliest records through
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: his latest five dices all threes, he's done it his way,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: on his terms, and there's a lot to respect in that.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: This is Broken Record liner notes for the digital age.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond. Here's my conversation with Connor Oberst and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: to see the full video version of this episode, visit
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast or click the
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: link in the episode description. You spend more time in
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: la these days or more in Omaha?
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Or it's probably half and half because we have the
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: studio here. I can't see you, but up through my
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: backyard there's a fence and Michael Mogus, who's in Bright
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Eyes with me, has his house and his studio there.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So and how long have you guys had that arrangement?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Oh? I guess it was like two thousand and six. Okay, yeah,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: almost twenty years.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: What was the first stuff he recorded there? Do you remember?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think we recorded the tail end of Casadega,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: which was the Bright Eyes recorded. Yeah.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: I came out, I guess the next year two thousand seven.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of my favorite brid Eyes records. Yeah,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I did see you on that tour though. Actually, now
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: that I know that I think about it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I was the one we all had like the white
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: seats and stuff, and my friend was doing the old
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: like hippie projection when we put the little colored water
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: and big so yeah, yes, our pseudo psychedelic stuff kind of.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Felt like, yeah, these guys were up there kind of
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: like you know, the Flying Burrito Brothers or something.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I been a fan of your output since
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know, around two thousand and two, one or
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: two or you know, things come out piecemeal and you
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: just kind of listen over time. But you know, it
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: was interesting to be able to listen to like kind
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: of like the whole catalog in one and like you know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: kind of over the course of like a week and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: a half and kind of like the enormity of it
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: was like it slipped by me until until like we
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: were about to have this conversation and I was like,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: you know, like.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: Jesus, you know, I'm I'm impressed you got through all.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, how old is this guy? Again? Like
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: how does this like? You know, it's almost like a
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Neil Young left ful of output, Like we're just like
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and it just it escaped me. How do you How
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: do you hold that all in your your head these days?
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's very much. I wouldn't say it's a
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: blur because I have a lot of specific memories over
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: the years. But you know, I started touring and presenting
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: my music at like age I guess like thirteen or fourteen. Obviously,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: like in high school, I kind of just toured in
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: the summer and like when I could, and then I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: went to college for like a year, and so I guess,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: like around fevers and mirrors, I think I was like nineteen,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and that's when I got kind of quit school and
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: music became my full time job and just never stopped.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: So it's I feel lucky to like have the longevity.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've had older musicians sort of you know,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: just tell me that there's always like peaks and valleys
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: when it comes to like career things and creativity and
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: really the ultimate triumph.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: It's just just still you're.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Doing it after you know, I'm forty four now and
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: played too many shows to even count and made so
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: many records of various people. So yeah, it's really it's
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: been my entire life. So it's hard to it's hard
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to like know what life would be like without music,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: you know, science Like people have like ask me that
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: in the interviews, like if you can play music, what
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: would you do, And it's like I have like no idea,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I have no like skills.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: So after getting to the first couple of Bright Eyes Records,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I remember somehow, I don't remember how someone earned it
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: for me or I founded a record shop like the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Command of Venus, but the Commander Venus, I didn't know
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you were fifteen, sixteen seventeen in that grip, Yeah, like
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: that's crazy.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we made the first record.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: There's like two Commandervenius records, and the first one, yeah,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I made it like when I was like fourteen, and
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Tim Cashers, like the main guy in Cursive, was in
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: that band at first, and it was after Valentine's Day.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: We went to like Target or whatever and bought all
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: these heart shaped boxes and then we wrote like love
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: letters to the record labels we liked.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: So it was like You're Murdered or My Sweet Mr
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: My Sweet Manator or whatever, slipop, whatever we liked at
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: the time, and we sent it out. And there was
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a record label long gone but.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Called Grass Records from New York that put out like
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of great records, Brainiac and the Wrens and yeah,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: just a lot of They put out the spam from
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Omaha called mouse Chaps. That's why they were kind of
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: like on our radar. But this woman, Camille, who was
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: kind of the an r that signed bands. I remember
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: she called my parents' house and it was like a
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: landline and my brother was like, Connor, you got a call.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, he's like, this is live on Grass.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, they like listen to this.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: And she's talking to me and I tell her that
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like a fourteen year old boy, and she just
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: like screams because she had thought that I was like
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: a twenty year old like female.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: My voice hadn't changed.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Me.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that wind ends up being like wind up right.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: At a certain point, which was was kind of blooming mine.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I was looking at their catalog and it was like
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the same year they put out Your guy's second album
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: was like there's a Teddy Pendergrass record, a Doctor John record,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: a record from the Wrens, like you mentioned their own grass,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and then and then a Creed Like Creed's first record
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: came out like a month after your guys second record.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, those like this guy, Alan Meltzer, who
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: was just a really rich guy, bought the label, bought
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Grass and then like basically like got rid of most
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: of the bands and and then obviously took it in
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: a total different direction. But he was always very sweet
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: to me. He's passed away now, but I remember him
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: showing me Creed. And his wife was very eccentric as well,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and they're just super New York. He was like very overweight,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: stout man, and then his wife was like a you
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: know model from the seventies that was still like antarexic.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: They were just very crazy to look at, but they
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: would like fly me out. They flew me and my
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: girlfriend out there to New York for like my eighteenth birthday. Anyway,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: they were sweet, but I remember them showing me Creed
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: before it even came out, and I was like, I
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: really liked them, and I was like, you guys, sounds
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: like a really bad pearl jam and I don't I
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: don't think it's not, you know, And like the lady
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: was like Diane and she was like, you know, he's
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: like Jim Morrison.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: You know, he's like new Jim Morrison.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I was the guys. And then sure enough they put
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: it out and it's like the biggest thing in the world.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So another reason not to ever you know, trust my rush.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not your commercial judgment, but but your ears
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: were kind of spot on and they were kind of
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: like exactly like a bad birl jam. But funny to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: imagine I bet yeah, probably Scott Staff was probably telling
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: her the news. Yeah, I imagine.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I remember like on that trip, you know,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: just like I mean, I've been to New York, but
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: it was still like you know, my aging birthdayn with
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: my girlfriend. They were like they would like drive around
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: like limousines like smoking weed and stuff, and like, I
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: don't know, it was very it was a surreal little
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: period of time there.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Where was your head at I mean, I guess maybe
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: even specifically on that trip, like eighteen flown to New
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: York on a rep you know, on a label that
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: could actually fly in New York and driving around in
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: a limit. I mean, like, what were your thoughts at
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: that time?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: We, like my group of friends and all the bands
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: like that were associated with Saddle Creek. It was like
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: all this was kind of happening at once, Like we
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: had started Saddle Creek and like we had the first
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: record came out on that and we were all trying
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: to you know, support each other and had this like
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: little scene. But then we also realized like, oh we
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: we maybe we should get on real labels, was like
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: the thinking. So some of the bands started signing to
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: other labels, and then eventually we kind of like sort of,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I guess shortly after that, came back together and decided
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: just to like really put out our own records. Like
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I'm mostly I'm talking about right Eyes, Cursive with Faint,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: they were kind of we were that was kind of
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the big three bands, and and then yeah, it just
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: got weird, like we just we you know, we grew up.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Like there was a record store here called the Antiquarium,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and it was like like right out of the movies,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: like you know, the old guys smoking cigarettes behind the desk,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: like making fun of what you're trying to buy. You know,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: it's so like militant like punk rock, indie rock, and
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: so you know, we love Discord and we were like
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: trying to like fight the power and stuff and get
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: to do it on our own.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: So I actually all that stuff with like Grass and
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: wind Up.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like it's like I was almost
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: like I was enjoying it in the sense of like
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: observing this is crazy, but I was, you know, a
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: little like too cool for cool, you know, like and
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: that was our vibe.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Like all of our friends.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: We were like, I don't know, we just thought we
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: were like such bad asss and we're like change in
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the world, like make you know, like little little engine
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: that could from Nebraska and all that stuff.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: So I mean, you kind of not wrong thom. You
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: guys did have a pretty strong scene going. I mean
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: think about those three, I mean the Fing and Cursive
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: and Bright Eyes, and you know it's like that's a
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: pretty that's a pretty strong core you know as a ray,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: and you can just kind of on and on. You're like, wow,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: it's like a whole yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And like the you know, the bands didn't really
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: sound like each other, which I think is interesting. Was
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of like scenes, you know, from certain areas
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: like North Carolina or Washington, DC. You know, there's like
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: a vibe they like hold music together. But I felt
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: like what held us together was just that we were
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: all like friends, and we all were like we all
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: realized at an early age, like you know, the whatever
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: DIY stuff was like that wasn't really a choice. We
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: you know, we knew that no one was gonna like
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: come find us, you know, so we like gotten bands
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: and dull everywhere and played you know, living rooms and
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: basements and all this like back when like you know,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: south By still mattered and like, uh, what was the
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: one the college music the CNJ Festival in New York
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: all that stuff, Like, I mean it was we're talking
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the nineties here, yeah, long ago.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: How were you aware of all, like the sort of industry.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Was it just through reading magazines or like how did
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: you know where to go to kind of be seen?
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: I guess like we were big fans of music, so
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: it was always kind of like those labels I was
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: mentioning before, you.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Know, we listened to all those records, so I was like, oh,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like Spoon's playing this thing, like it
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: must be cool we got to try to play that
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: or you know, like so it was mostly just like
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: kind of network. And then once we started traveling, like
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: you meet just a lot of musicians in different cities
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: and so, I mean for a long time we kind
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: of booked our own things, and it was like easier
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: back then. And even though it seems like it'll be
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: easier now with the Internet, it was actually I think
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: easier for us because there wasn't as much things happening,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: or at least you didn't know about it, and you know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: you could like if there was like a cool like
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: you know, punk rock venue in some city, you could
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: like send a cassette tape or send a CD and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: like someone would actually like listen to it and call
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: you back and be you know, a lot of word
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: of mouth basically. And then eventually we got you know,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: real booking agents, and then that kind of changed everything
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: because then you're playing clubs and you have guarantees and
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: you're on you know, real tour.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we were talking about like the mense amount
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: of kind of stuff you've done over the years. In hindsight,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: do you think having Saddle Creek as kind of like
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: a home base this kind of independent thing that you know,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you guys sort of all created. Was that to your
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: benefit over the years, like being able to work with
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: independently as long as you did.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that that kind of those
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: kind of golden years. I would say, between like yeah,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: you know, nineteen ninety nine up through probably like Sadega
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and stuff, it was like everyone was unified and it
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: really felt like a collective and then, like anything money
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: and personality, the label kind of ended up belonging to
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: like this guy Rob Nansel who was in He was
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: actually in Communityvens, but he was kind of the one
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: that was like organized in business minded and the rest
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: of us were just more into making the music. So
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: at a certain point it started to feel like didn't
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: belong to all of us anymore. And I think that's
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: when things started to fray. Like I made my first
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: solo record like on Merge because I was kind of like,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I just didn't feel like connected to it,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: and then been on a lot of other labels since
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: with different projects, and you know, I mean I fondly
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: looked back at those times, but I mean, who's who's
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to say, but I think that we missed out on
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: some opportunities again because we were so like militantly independent,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: like I remember the past of like tons of money,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: and they were like primed to be because they were
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: a little ahead of the dancing chronic dance like before
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: a killer and floor like, oh, it's like a lot
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: of that stuff. It got really huge and and they
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: like said no that these major labels to stay on
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the our label, and same with me, and same with
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: same with Cursive to certain degrees. So maybe we made
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a mistake. Maybe we should have like struck while the
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: iron was hot. You know, that's all hindsight now.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I remember talking to Rick Rubin one time and like
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: basically talking. We were talking about the Faint and how
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: much we love the Faint, and he was like, I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: tried to sign the Faint. Yea. I was kind of
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I remember it, just being kind of shocked by that,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you know, because I do, like remember, I mean, listening
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to them when they're out. It was like I didn't
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: assume anyone I was listening to was on any major
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: labels radar or I mean, I guess it wasn't like
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: a major major, but you had like major distribution, et cetera.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: You know, So It's just kind of wild to hear that.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Even at that time I was you know, it was
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: new and everyone was listening to it in the underground records.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It was like, oh shit, this was on the radar
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: of like other other people were trying to swoop in,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Rick's always been super cool, so he like actually when
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I was making we were making Castle Deega, I was
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: in La.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: It's like before I lived there, but yeah, he.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Like did the send me send a car down to
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: LA and I went up to Malau House and like,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you know, did the whole thing, like playing him songs
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: on acoustic guitar. And obviously we didn't end up working
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: with him, but I remember I was like, we had
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of songs recorded, and he actually helped pick
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the ones that were gonna that we're gonna be on Castadaga.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I was like really yeah, I was like right, like
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: what you know, it's it's Rick Rubin. I was like,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: what do you think the songs? So he actually did
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: like help pick songs for that record, which is I
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: hadn't thought about that till now. But and then he's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: always been really cool, Like when I did some solo records,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: at Shangri La and when Nah, actually we made the
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Monsters at Shango Lad before he owned it. But then
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I went back solo record and he cut me a
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: good deal and it's very sweet.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very nice about that. Very nice about that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Was that around because I remember going to see you
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: right after a Wide Awake Its Morning came out and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it was like the vibe was you know, going to
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: see Bright Eyes before that was like is everyone was
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: like my age at the time or maybe a little older,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and then going there it was like there was like
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: sixty year old dudes and I was like, what the
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: fuck is this? You know, so I have to imagine
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: it is maybe and you were like on the cover
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Rolling Stone, I think if I remember correctly.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Like it was, Yeah, that whole time with that record
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: was you know that was obviously like the kind of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: commercial peak too.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I guess my.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Music in general. I learned a lot about kind of
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: the way the real industry worked. And yeah, we were
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: every label was trying to sign us, and yeah, it
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: was like I remember the kind of fun thing is
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: we you know, we put out those two records on
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the same day, so we went on the Wide Away
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: tour first playing all the songs and it was like,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: you know, it felt like the Beatles or something, and
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: we'd walk out on stage and be like like flash
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: flash flash flash flash craziness, and then like like you know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: six months later, we come back to these towns and
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: like I remember, in between those tours, there wasn't a
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: lot of time, and the thing became our band for
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: the Digital Ash shit, and I remember I took all
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: the clothes I had and threw them into a bucket,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and the pose one of the guys in the faint
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: helped me, like die them all black.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, there you go, so all my clothes are black.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: And we went and.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Just basically played I mean, we should have been smarter
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: and like played songs from Bulls, but we were like,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: this is this tour, this is this tour. So we
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: go back and people don't know, they're expecting us to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: play the Wide Awake stuff, and man we had some
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: upset yeah, ticket ticket fires like.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: The Digital Ash. So yeah, I don't know, was.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: That the like did people feel more strongly about IM
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Wide Awake than a Digital Ash?
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I mean as far as the general I mean,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: that was the only record I feel like when we
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: put well maybe lifted, but when we put it out,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: it was like I would consider like well received, you know.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Like everywhere.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like all of our pretty much all my
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: other records. It seems like even to my fans, like
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: you know, make these records and it's like ten years
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: later people are like, oh my god, I love like
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Upside Down Mountains, like one of my solo records. I'm like, man,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: no one seemed to care when it came out, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: same with like, I mean a lot of those records.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: That's like this delayed effect to even like the fan base.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I'll say, I'll be one hundred percent honest, I did
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: not ever know about Upside Down Mountain or listen to
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: it until until over the weekend. Yeah, I think this
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: might be my favorite album of your that's fucking amazing.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how did I miss its ten years ago?
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: How the fuck did I miss it?
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And I signed it like none such, which is
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: like a big cool label part of Warner Brothers. But yeah,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I mean that's that's sort of where I learned, is
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: like no matter, I don't think I and I don't
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: say this as like you know, boohoo. It's like I
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: don't think, uh, my music was ever really meant to
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: be to like achieve a certain like I've watched my
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: friend's bands, and like people I know, people have toured
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: with get way bigger than me, or my bands have
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: like as far as like where they play and how
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: many records they sell or whatever, like those sort of
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: like empirical data or whatever. But I don't know, I
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: like that it's not it's like exists in sort of
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: its own thing. And and I've also seen a lot
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: of bands like be It Real Hot and then like
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Fizzle Away. You know, so just the fact that I'm
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: still making records now and can go you know, it's
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: not always like tons of people, but just you know,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: to be able to play to like, you know, a
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: couple thousand people and like most cities in like you know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: in our whole world.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: But you know, amount I'm sure.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, so that itself, I guess is like a achievement.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: You know, So that's.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I don't know, it seemed kind
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of sad if you only had like a few records
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and then kind of like everything else, like the quality
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: dropped off. And and but I mean it's like like
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I said, like listening to was a like mind fuck,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: like Jesus Christ, Like you know, it really is like
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: listening to like Neil's Young's catalog or something like there's
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: shit that's like wildly different, but it's all kind of
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: a certain quality. None of it's like there's like a
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: baseline quality for everything. Nothing's like trash, you know, and
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: then there's some stuff that's just like like upside down Mountain.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: It was just like a complete surprise, like I just
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: didn't know about it, and I didn't know. I don't
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: know what single thing about Jonathan Wilson, but I was
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: just kind of checking him out this week and because
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I was just like that record blew me away.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you very much. That's uh Yeah, he's a
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: he's a magical man. He spent the last few years
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: playing in Roger Waters band and like the Big Crazy
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: World Tour and he uh he did uh David Gilmore's
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: like arts like sang the fucking like teenage dream come true.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: For Wilson.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: He was like in Pink Floyd for like that's insane. Yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: did you check the show out or you know, I'm
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I regretted to this day he like I have like
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: a standing like come to any show, but like I
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: just I was never in like the right city when
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: it was happening. I should have just flown to do
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: it because everyone that saw I was like, oh, I know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: it's like the craziest thing. But I kind of blew it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I've heard a lot about stories about it.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I just saw David Gilmour for the first
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: time a week ago, and uh, that kind of that
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: really blew me away. I wasn't expecting it to be
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: that that increase. It was really good. It was like,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: really really good. Yeah, that's all. It's a strange thing
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: that they both tour and kind of play the same songs.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, and I think they're I think they hate
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: each other. I mean I have no, I don't. It's
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: not like I take a side. I just you know,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: like he was around and actually had time, so I
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: was like, let me go to see what, you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: what it's like, and it was. It was incredible. But yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: now I want to see Roger Waters and see without
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: you know, because I know, I don't even know if
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: he's going to do that anymore. But he was like
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: frying the pig out over the crack. The whole thing
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: was I want to say that, you know.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they they're describing like the the well visual part
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and like even like this, like the PA.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: It was like something crazy like like.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: The you know, biggest like most like high fi like
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: PA like ever like used kind of thing like he's
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: like you know, he's he's always been like I think,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: into like technology and like the next thing. So I
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: think it. Yeah, now I'm just getting more sad that
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't go.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: But man, sorry, would you would you do another record
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: with him?
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Oh? For sure.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He we used to actually be roommates in l A.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And then he he moved to Topanga and built like
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: a cool studio you out there, So I want to add,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: great to go make a record there some time.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: That's that's cool. The new record's really cool too. I
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: particularly love fell in love with the second half of it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I kind of got stuck on a loop with the
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: first half of it when it first came out. Then
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I graduated finally to the second half and I think,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: like it just is like it's it's really good man.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you listening back. You've collaborated with a lot of people.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have Alex Orange, drink who you're co
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: writing a lot of record with. You haven't really done
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a full album where you're co writing with someone on
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: a Bride Eyes record before.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, not on a not on a Bride Eye record.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I mean other than sometimes network musical stuff that Nate
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: and and Mogus do. But yeah, I mean I've been
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: in obviously like just Parcitos and like the Better Oblivion
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Community Center with TV and Monsters of Folks, So I've
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: been in collaborations. But yeah, Bright Eyes for a long
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: time was just I just would bring the songs completed
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: and then we'd arrange them together. And yeah, this one
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: just it was kind of just happenstance, like Alex was
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: staying with me in LA and just I don't know,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I was kind of in a weird spot and wasn't
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: really writing, and he got the ball rolling and so yeah,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: he's a big reason why the record got made.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: You know, So were you even thinking about writing or
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: were you like trying to write and couldn't and then
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: that's how it.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: I wasn't really thinking about it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I was just like, I don't know, I go as
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: sometimes I go through well a lot of you know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: mental whatever ups and downs, and you know, I definitely
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: suffered from like what's the point of all this, like
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: not just music, like of everything, you know, so of
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: all life. Yeah, I mean basically. But I mean I've
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: always been like that, so it's not really anything new.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: But sometimes yeah, I get a little paralyzed and you
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: gotta It's why it's good to have friends to shake
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: you out of it and you know, get back at it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Does it still take you by surprise, like
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: when when that happens like that feeling?
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I think music is a to me. It's still like
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: a mystery because it's like if I could sit down
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and write a great song that I was proud of,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: like every day, I'd be doing it, you know, but
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I just it's not it doesn't work that way. It's
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: kind of you got to like wait for like the
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: tide to come in and it's all like waves and
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: you know of it. I find that like I don't
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: really write if I'm having like a sort of heightened
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: emotional or like mental experience good or bad, I don't
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: really I don't feel like writing. It's more like in
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: like the ordinary times when I have the ability to
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: like look back at things and see it from a
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: more like objective state of mind. I like, I like
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: to write lyrics from that place because well, I just
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: think they're better. I mean I have written songs like
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: when in the height of whatever, being in despair or
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: like being in love or something, you know, but I
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: feel like I always in the like worse than the
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: ones that are a little more like I mean, not
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: like clinical, but just like have like a perspective that
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know a little after the fact.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly are there are there songs that have made
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: records that have been written at the highest size or
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: lowest lowser.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'm trying to think, like, well, I mean one
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: kind of obvious example is that when the president talks
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: to God, so like I just wrote that A is
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: like I was pissed off and it was like a
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: commercial for like a way of thinking. It's not a
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: good song at all. But it was like I was
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: booked on Jay Leno and I was like, I want
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: to do something. I don't want to just like play
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: first Day of my Life, you know what I mean.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I was like I thought things mattered and splaining like
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: political world. So yeah, I got my tour manager at
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: the time, Like I did the sound check for that
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: just like in my hoodie like normal like me. And
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: then in between me and that, in the shell, I
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: was like Bill, this guy Bill Sullivan was my tour
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: manager at the time. I was like, Bill, Man, I
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: don't know about this.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Can you give me like a Cowboys sudent?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: And He's like like if we were in La so
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: he like, you know, it's easy to get order.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: So I put on the Ryan Stones and went out there.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: And my theory was like I'm singing this song.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: It's like anti Bush song, and it'll be like some
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: guy in like the Midwest to the South, like kind
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: of half watching.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: J Leno was like, you know it real quiet and
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: be like hey honey.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And like this Scott looks all right, turn this up.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: So I don't know.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: What was that. Do you remember what the reception to
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: that was.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I mean it was it was like, just like you
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: expect the people that were on that side of the
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: political divide, it was great. And everyone that wasn't, you know,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: just tried their best to like make fun of me
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: and all.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: That stuff, you know, And that was that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, that was right in the middle of kind
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: of like right away, so it was pretty There was
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of whatever, I guess.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: People with opinions around that time.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Connor Oberst after
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: the break. We're back with more from Connor Oberst. Do
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: you remember people saying like the second coming of Bob Dylan?
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, and you know, obviously we all know that that's
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: like a ridiculous thing to say about anyone, and then.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Said about a lot of people.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Actually, my booking agent, who's been my booking agent for
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: like twenty years, he gave me this. It was like
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: from the New York Post and it was like around
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: at the same time. It's like a framed article or
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: you put it in a frame like an article. You
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: just said, picture of me, and it's a Dylan wanna
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: be So I got that like framed.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of those two, So that's cool.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that guy's one of the crimes. I don't
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: think there's any worry about that.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I remember even just thinking like, wow,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: how do you you know, like getting like the attention
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the record was getting the critical and sort of the
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: polarizing opinion of like when the president talks to God,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: and then like yeah, just being called the New Day,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: it was just like wow, that is fucking nuts.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was. It was definitely like, you know, a
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: mind fuck for sure, and just like I mean, I'm
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: kind of lucky, I feel like because what happened to
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: me was like every stage, it was very gradual, from
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: like you know, command evenings, high school all the way.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Everything kind of kept building and so it wasn't like
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: it was an overnight thing, because I think that's what
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: really makes people go crazy. Like I just every record
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: we put out, like feld a little more and the
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: two of the shows got a little bigger. So I
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: guess by the time that was happening, I was somewhat
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: prepared for it already, but it was still still very surreal.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And you know, also like that realization at some point
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: that it's like this is my livelihood. And it's like
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: also like you know, just some degree, it's a business.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of people, you know, count on me
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: to make music because I make money that they need,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, yeah, and like it's like a weird
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you know, you lose a lot of innocence and so
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you it's like you gotta I try to like replenish
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: that somehow. How much do you.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Think about that, like the the I guess, just the
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: way that people might depend on you, the way people
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: would depend on a corporation for you know, it's like
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: not not that depends on you in a bad way,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: but how often do you think about that like that?
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: There are people who.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: I mean I think about it a lot.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You know, when we tour, it's like there's obviously the
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: band that there's all kinds of people that work on
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: the tours and the labels too. You know, I'm not
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: really like working for any kind of faceless thing that
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I can be like, I don't care what happens to them,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: you know, all like intertwined with my actual life. So yeah,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: there's times when I would maybe not do something, but
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I'd like people need like people need the money mogus.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: There's always worried.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: About mocuss things going on though, right Yeah.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, those guys, those guys can I mean, they
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: don't need meat.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: But uh.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like my dad's like been my business.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Like he used to work at Mutual Roma when I
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: was a kid, and then as soon as I got
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: enough stuff going on, because he already did.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: My taxes just because he's like my dad, you know.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: But I like, I was, like, everyone was like, you
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: need a business manager, and like, you know, there's people
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: that'll do that for like five percent of your income.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: That's what most people do.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if I want a stranger like
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: with all my bank passwords and all my stuff, you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: like my mortgages and shit.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: So I was like, Dad, you just help pay you salary,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: you do this, and so quit his job. I mean
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I was, I will like yeah around then two thousand
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: and four or five, you know, and he'd been going
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: to that same sad building for like my whole life.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: So that's one thing I'm like proud of that. He
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: just gotta like, you know, deal with my stuff and
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: like have like more time to show. And he likes
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: being around, you know. He likes to know, like what's
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: up with the music and you.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Know your parents music people.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: My dad was a musician. Yeah, he like played in
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: like I mean, I guess semi professionally because it was
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: like his side gig to his actual job.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: But he would play.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Like in like wedding bands and you know it's like
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: cover bands. And my mom was not a musician, but
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: there was always music at my house and my oldest
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: brother played in bands. So I was lucky I didn't
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: have to like go you know search. You know, I
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: didn't like get my first guitar. There was just like
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: guitars in my house, like from when I was born.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So it did everyone have different music like your three
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: brothers and your mom and dad liked, everyone have their
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: own kind of thing that we're listening to.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my mom and dad, you know, they
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: were fully like right there, like seventies for you know,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Jackson Brown, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young all that type of
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: thing and Dire Straits and Steely Dan. And my oldest brother,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Maddie was like into like, you know, I guess eighties
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: alternative you know, Rim Smith here whatever, all that kind
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: of like one hundred and twenty minutes like and that's so.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: But he was like six years older than me. So
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: and then my brother justin real close in age. We
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: kind of liked all that stuff. But then we sort
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: of found like like the North Carolina stuff like Super
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Chunk and like I meant, the DC stuff for Gauzi,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: and I don't even remember all the all the things
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: but that was like the things we learned about at
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: the record store, and then also like older records like
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: getting into like Poundsman's Aunt and John Prime and Lennon Cohen,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: you know, things that were of the time that my
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: parents would listen to, but they weren't really that hit,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: you know, they kind of commercial stuff.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: But right I don't want to let I want to
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: go I want to talk about some songs to the
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: new record, but I want to go back to that
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: feel like I let it drop. Did you write when
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the President talks to God? For like that was specifically
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: for that I guess.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: It wasn't for Leno, but it was after the election.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Actually went to Europe to to do press for like
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: the two records, Wide Awake and Visual Ash, Like it
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: was like a press tour, but I was playing like
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: little acoustics shows like as part of the press stuff.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I remember I wrote it like on a faery because
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I wanted to play something that like acknowledged it because
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: like I don't know if you remember back then, but
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: there was a you know, I guess it's a good
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: lesson for right now. It definitely it felt like the
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: end of the world kind of like I had gone
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: on tour with like Springsteen and like rim like vote
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: for change. You know, we're going hard for like Carrie
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: if you can imagine that. But yeah, it was it
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: saw anyone wanted to talk about was like how crazy
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: it was that Bush got reelected, you know and now
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: we've just now you look back at Bush and you're like, oh,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: the good old days.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: I know it it's so point man, it's like what
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: the fuck?
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then like Leen, I was like I'll be
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: like right, you know, close to when I got back.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: It was definitely like the Wide Awake tour because I.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Remember because they were like, really want me to play
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: First Day of My Life? And I was like, no,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I want to play this song and they're like it's
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: not on a record, and and it kind of went.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Up the the.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Chain of command. But yeah, so it went up and
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: they cleared it. And I remember that night before the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: show or before the paping, like Leno came and knocked
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: on the door and he was like very nice. He's like, yeah,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I heard the song you gonna play, and he's like
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: told me like a story about like him and stand
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: up comedians, like touring along the Canadian border during like
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: the Vietnam War and like all this stuff.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Damn all right, Jay, I.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Always remember me. I always heard that from people that
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: played that show that it was like or that and
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: then we play like Letterman and I was always like
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: a Letterman fan, but I always heard from people that
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: played the shows it was like Lena was like the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: cool like drop in and like talk to you and
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: hang and like it was the opposite, you know, with Letterman.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I guess you expect.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I played Letterman like many times and yeah, you
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: don't see him. He's only like says hi to you
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: on the stage. All those guys are, you know, different
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: levels of like engagement, I guess. I mean Conan is.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: My favorite as like a person. He's just cool.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Allen's really nice. I mean they're all nice. Kimmel's
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: n they're they're they're all good, great political answer.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Them all.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: I like them if they like me, you know, yeah, exactly.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: What was it like hanging with Springsteen on that Vote
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: for Change tour?
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: It was amazing, same kind of thing.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: In the first show, we were super nervous and he
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: came to our dressing room. It was just like, so,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: we're happy to have you here and he would go
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: out like because it was us Rim and then fucking
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: E Street bands like pretty crazy and we were was
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: part of this vote for chain, so we were doing
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: shows as like a three band thing, but they were
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: like Pearl Jam I think was like with like my
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: morning Jacket and like, I mean it was like a
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: whole wow, like all the all the tours were like
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was really organizing. People put a lot
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: of like blood, sweat and tears, you know, I mean
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: like di rap war and you know, it was like
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: it really did feel like we're making a stand. But
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: he came out and would introduce us, like before we
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: went on stage. He would be like go because he
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: usually doesn't only has a lot of opening people. Normally
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: he just plays for like four hours, but like special thing.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: So but he's like talks to the audience. He's like
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: usually my friends from Nebraska and this is a no
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: brucing zone because I guess they yelled Bruce and it
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: sounds like the billing that's like You're like, Bruce, sounds
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: like a right. Oh he yeah. He was very very gracious.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: That is like maybe the most gracious man in rock
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: and roll.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: You know, did you get to talk about like like
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: did he listen to your records?
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I don't know how much he's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: listened to our records, but I've seen him, you know
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: since then, like came through Omaha once and like invited
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: me down and like I sang a song with him
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and like in Omahan and.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Like what did you sing uh on the road? And
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my, he's like he's like, look
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: he showed me like they're.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Setlist, like like you know, like I like I loved
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: thunder Rug and I'm like, wow, there's a lot of words.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: You know. I think it wasn't my finest hour. I'm like,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I should have picked Dance in the Dark.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Did your dad see that?
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Actually that's a probably pretty proud dad moment right there.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And we also got to play a couple of
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: times the Bridge School the thing that Neil Young ship.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: That's right. I saw monsters at Bridge School.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, and you know that back then. I don't
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: even know if they do it anymore, but since pass
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: they don't. They don't do that anymore, sadly, But yeah,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: the thing is you would go on Friday night. We
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: did it once Fridays and then did it Monster. But
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: you go on Friday night to the ranch and everyone
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: hangs out, and then Saturday and Sunday you play the
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: show as a way to kind of like deflate egos
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: and everyone, you know, so you're also just like hanging
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: out in Neil Young's house, you know, which is like
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: pretty cool. But one year, I think it was the
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Monsters of Folk year, like my parents came out and
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: they gotta like go to Neil's house and like kick it.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: So that was I got some some sun points for
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: that one.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. It's just it's kind of wild that,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, Neil Neil, Neil doesn't even tour
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: that much anymore. Just kind of it's like everyone's just
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: kind of like.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: No, I mean in the way it's just like seems
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: like every day something else. Quincy Jones, I mean like
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: just like, I mean, I guess it makes sense all
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: that era is like getting into like eighties and nineties
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: and stuff. I mean, the John Prian one got me
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: pretty hard because I've done a bunch of shows with
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Tan and he's like coolest guy. Wow, Like yeah, it's
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: like the whole pandemic there was there were everyone's drop
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: on my fly.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: How did you survive the pandemic?
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: I was, well, took it very seriously.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't at the time. I was like living with
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: my girlfriend in LA and we just we're like hold
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: up at the house, you know, like everyone ordering ordering
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: food and you could go like drive like right before,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: like grocery stores would clothes. You know, it's like you know,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: like right at the end and like run in and
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: grab stuff. And I mean it was just like it
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: was such a Yeah, I don't know, times are I
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: guess living in interesting times.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: Someone I heard something it that way, It's for sure.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: After the break, we'll be back with the rest of
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: my conversation with Connor Oberst. Here's the rest of my
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: conversation with Connor Oberst. I love your song. I hate
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: it's really that's a phenomenal song. It does something for
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: me that I don't know that many other songs that
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: sound like it. Do you know what? Uh can you
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: tell me about writing that song?
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one actually that started with a musical
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: idea from Nate Walcott and I kind of sat with
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: it and then yeah, I don't know, I started. I
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: had the first couple of lines and then I just thought,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: you know, that's like a pretty I guess songwriting device,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: you know, sort of start every line with the same
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: same word phrase.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: It's actually kind of easy to write that way. It
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: was just a list of.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Things, you know. Yeah, but yeah, that was one that like.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Is this sincere? Like I mean, the first two lines,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: I hate the.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: I mean it is it is sincere.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I'll like qualify it with you know,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: everyone's beliefs if it takes them to a place that
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: creates more empathy or understanding or comfort. You know, I'm
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: not I don't mean to deride that, you know, I
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: think about like my grandma, like praying the Rosary and
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. But to me, like organized religion and
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: even like the pseudo religions, the cults, and I mean,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: to me, it's just the some good versus evil to humanity.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Is It's pretty clear to me. I think that they
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: all just like just riddle the world with division and
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: ignorance and bigotry. And so yeah, I stand behind all that.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's interesting that like it
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: seems like whenever someone like quote unquote like gets a
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: message from God, it's like God always says like, have
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: sex with all the women and children, take all the money,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: and kill your enemies. You know. That's like God's like
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: same message, and it's like God's a twisted fuck, you.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Know, you know it's kind of true. Yeah, some wild ship.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Man like, yeah, it's a it's a strange thing. But yeah,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: that was one that the label. There was two songs
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: that the label was like weird about. There was one song.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like, actually like it a lot, and
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's catchy, but it's like it's like a
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: SKA song.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: It's called First World Blues.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Oh make the record.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: You didn't make the record because they were like, you
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: put this on the record. All anyone's gonna say is like, right,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: I just you know, go scar or something. I don't
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: know what they but I was like and then hate
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: for like obvious reasons, I guess, like offending people or something.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: But I I capitulated on the SKA one, and then
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, hate's going on the record up there,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: so that's gotta that's gotta be there.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, bright Eyes ghost Scar might have been a
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: kind of an appealing line in a way, drawn some
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: drawn some listeners in I think with that one.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's definitely gonna see the light of day
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: one of these days.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: But in the form that it's in now or re recorded. Yeah, Okay,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: you have like we.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Have like good like eight songs that we recorded that
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: like didn't make the record.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: So so how often do you revisit stuff? Like you
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: were saying you had like many more songs for Casadega
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and you know, Rick helped you little whittle that down,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Like did did those extras ever come out? Or are
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: they still somewhere tucked away?
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I think like some of them did, some of them didn't.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Some of them are like promo for that record, but
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: I mean I guess you could find them on the
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: internet probably, but like like weird things like oh they
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: sent out a song to like the mailing list is
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: like a treat or something, you know. Yeah, yeah, I
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: don't know, Like but yeah, there's there's songs weighing around
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: for sure, but yeah, yeah, I don't know. I kind
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: of want to do I definitely want to do something
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: with the ones that didn't make this record, because I
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: think some of them are like like some of them,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: like I don't know what the best they're ones I
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: like wow, So, yeahs, have.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: You heard from anyone that is a fan of yours
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: that you've been surprised by?
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: That's a good question. I'm always surprised.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know a lot of times like they'll be
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like you make like weird like too. Like
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of times, like when you're on these like
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: festival circuits, like eure Ape festival circuits, you end up
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: like like watching a band that you never would and
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: kind of like even like hang out. Like I remember
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: like one summer, like every place we played was like
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: incubisc was playing. I like never listened to Incubists, but
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they're really nice guys and they're like, you know, it's.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Like stuff like that.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: It's the weird, weird like tour friendships. I feel like happened,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Bringing up Incabists reminded me that there's a some some
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: record scratches on the time I Have left. I'm pretty
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: sure is that at the end of the time I
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: have left, which was an unexpected touch.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's like that one and went out
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: and I think tiny suicides too.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: But there's this guy.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Named ebabs uh okay Eric, but he's just he's like
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: a hip hop producer, DJ scratching guy here in Omaha,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: works with like a lot of hip hop groups.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: My friend Mars Black.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Is like one of like his main collaborators. But uh yeah,
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: he came in like worked on those songs and yeah
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: it's just something we hadn't tried before. And he's a
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: friend of ours. So I think he did it. Like
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: he took it super like seriously, and like like he
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: was in the studio for a whole couple of days
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: and he's still like I was like what he did?
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: I like, I thought sounding great.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: I was like it's good, and he's like, you know,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: just like take it home and like think about it
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: a little more.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Like like he took it super seriously.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: So I mean it's like they're like subtle things, but
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: if you I think they add like just like a
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: cool different layer to it.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Like it really works and it's really it is super subtle.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Do you know what he was scratching? Because it is he.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Has this thing that he used that it's like a
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: digital you can basically load any sample into it and
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: it has like a essentially like a fake record on it.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: I don't exactly know how it works. For that song,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: like you know, he had Matt Berninger's separated vocal and
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: he just ran it into the thing and then you
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: know scratched it.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And scratching Matt's vocal over Matt.
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, I remember back for Lift.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Did this is like so crazy that we were like this, well,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: there'd be way easier ways to do this now. But
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: we heard that Portishead had thrust tracks of their record
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: and then like like fucked up the record with like
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: sandpaper and stuff and then like played it back into
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: the tracks. Like that's how they made like some of
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: those like classics, And so we did that. We got
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: like tests you can get like test pressings made without
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: press you know, without making a whole record. So we
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: had like separate tracks and we got test pressings like
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: records made, and like we did we.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: Just basically like stole that idea.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: And so like when you hear like if you listener
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Lifted and you hear like the pops and the crackles
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: and like the drums on like Lover and stuff, Yeah,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: those are all onto a LP and then like recorded
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: back into the tracks.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Wow, the drums on Lover are fucking really good. Are
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: really good that's that whole record.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: We had like a kind of a drum corps like
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: approach where you had like three drummers and a marching
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: band kind of style.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we like we're into some weird stuff.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: There's a Leonard Cohen album, Death of a Lady's Man
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: that Phil Spector produced that we're trying to ammunilate that
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: out as well. But like, but like I'm like, you know,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: they have like real stuff happening there, and you have
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: like the you know, the equivalent of our like sixth
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: grade orchestra.
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: Back then, like like early bride as, it was like.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Oh she owns a viola? Can you know? It was
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: so yeah, it was kind of like if you had
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: an instrument that was like interesting, we'd like record it.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: So it's cool. It sounds like kind of insane, but
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: you know, later on, like when Nate joined the band,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: fully it kind of graduated to like go on to
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Capitol Studios and recording like actual orchestras.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you guys did a great approximation. I mean
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: even you know, like cursive man, like some of the
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: string arrangements and I don't know how arranged they actually were.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, or not, but they sound like it.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: They're you know amazing, you know, yeah it would and
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: like all that.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: I mean it's just like whoa, you know, yeah, the
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: interplay between those guitars and the cello with like very
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: kind of special special combo.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like that the Ugly Ugly organ. It's a
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: record that doesn't get enough love, you know, it's a.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: That's a great one.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: I think my favorite is actually, uh Happy Hollow, which
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: is like the next one after that.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are you still gonna tour in the new year?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Starting but januine I want to say sixteenth or
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: something like that in Phoenix, and so it's like us
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: were kind of the first half of the year and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: then go to Europe in summer. Yeah, kind of hit
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: the hit the road and play play this new record
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: for the people.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Cool?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Is there anything between like that tour ending and that starting?
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Like with your voice, I know you have like we're
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: having some vocal issues, like are you having to do
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: certain things or avoid certain things?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I like yeah, I mean, you know, this has
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: actually been such a nice conversation. I was prepared for
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: like doom and gloom with you know, the election and things.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Like figure out how to avoid it, you know.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like, well, like physically, I feel a
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: lot better than I did a couple of months ago. Yeah,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: it was like it's I had like a problem with
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: my esophagus and so I kind of see like into
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of doctor's appointments and they stuck some robotic
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: shit down my throat and so.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: I yeah, fingers crossed.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: But I've been just singing around here and it feels
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: totally back to normal.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: So hopefully, yeah, we'll just get back out there.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: It was. It was definitely like a bummer that kind
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: of coincided with like when the record was coming out,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: but really it was always meant to be. The shows
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: in the fall were kind of I don't want to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: say promo, but they were.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: They were.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: They were like yeah, like smaller venues and like sort
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: of doing press for the record, and then the actual
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: tour tour was always in twenty twenty five, so it
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: was and we're gonna hopefully make up. We're gonna go to.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: All those cities again like that we missed.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: So cool. I haven't asked any questions about this Barcidos.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I do want to ask about that, and I guess
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: I'm curious. You know, those songs were very political in
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: their way when the President talks to God political in
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: its way. Did those songs sound like that when you
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: first wrote them or were they like radically different when
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: you initially wrote them before taking them to the band.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: No, like THEOS songs were like a different process, Like
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: we we wrote them all. I mean I would maybe
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: have a chord progression or Denver Dally who was the
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: other guitar player, would have like some musical thing, But
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: we wrote them all like in the band room, like
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: loud so and I would I would have like a
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: we'd make like I don't know, I guess the first
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: record whatever we had at the time, like mini diss
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: or some kind of recording device, and I would just
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: kind of sing scream like gibberish to get like a melody,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: and then I, you know, write write the words to
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: the melody. And yeah, it was always kind of and
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: we knew what we wanted to sing about, you know,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: and kind of just I guess going towards that tradition
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: of you know, political punk rock, pop punk, whatever you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: want to call it, hardcore.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I guess it didn't feel so pop punk to me,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess whatever.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: That is the story of guitars and screaming.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe little little cap and jazz ish yeah in a way. Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: So but we had a trouble. We had trouble, like
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: just stay in a band for very long. I think
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: we were like a band for a couple of years
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: at first, and then we kind of like broke up.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: And then we made another record only fifteen and right
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: when we we like finished, we like mixed the record,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: and then like nine to eleven happened, and it was like, oh,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: we made this like slightly anti American, like anti capitalists.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: There was a.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Flag on every house in the world, and like and on.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we went on tour, and I mean people that
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: came to our shows were like, you know, I think
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: on the same page to some degree. But yeah, doing
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: interviews and things, it was it was like a classic
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: classic bad timing but or maybe good timing. I always said,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: like I was like, well, the most American thing you
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: can do is like descent, you know, so I think
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: right in that sense, there's the right time. I just remember.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: After that it was things started getting really crazy and
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Bride Eyes World like moved to like touring on a
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: bus and like playing like a lot of bigger shows.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: And I mean and to a certain degree, Discursus was
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: always a side project because you know, I guess Bright
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Ass was just kind.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: Of my main thing.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: But I really did, like I still love like playing
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: loud music and like screaming.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: I'm getting like a little too old for it, but.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's funny man. When Lifted came out, I just
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: remember thinking like this is the most commercial fucking you know,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: not like the music, but just like the way the response.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: It felt like, holy fuck, this is a big record,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and like I don't even know how much
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: I don't even know to which degree Bright Eyes fans
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: even connect to that record or know that record. You know,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: there's so many sets, you know, but the time I
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: was like, whove, you know, this is a this is
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: a big record, you know.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, it was definitely a change.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: It was like.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: You know, real like had a tour manager, had a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: sound person, had touring a bus, had a real booking agent.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: It was like we're moving out of the van and
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: out of the truly like yeah, why space into like oh,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: we're like a band that's in magazines and yeah those
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: real shows. Yeah, that was it.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: Was a transitional time.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, pre I guess that area you were talking about,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: like that re election of Bush, there weren't many people
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: voicing what you were on that right, you know, like
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be ashamed to be American. I
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: feel like being ashamed of an American was very common
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: by like two thousand and five or six or seven,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: but you know, and the time an American idiot. Yeah, by
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: the time of an American idiot, I feel like that
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: was a very popular sentiment, but in like two thousand
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: and two thousand and one, that did not feel very
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: commonplace at all. You know. Yeah, well then very anticipatory
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: in that way. I don't know, you know, yeah.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: I remember, well, I guess it kind of makes sense.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I remember being like all these like
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: British journalists coming to interview us, like Uncut and Mojo
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff. It's almost like they it made
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: more sense to them, I think than like US press
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: or something. Yeah, they were like into it, you know,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: They're like political punk is bad, you know, and I
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: think here it was kind of just I don't know
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: they I think people liked the music, but maybe weren't
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: didn't care that much about the words, you know.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, were you always a pretty political person?
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Like or not? Really? I would say no, I mean
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: definitely not. I think that like my awareness of politics
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: started really like right around two thousand.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: I remember being on tour when.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: The first Bush election happened, and you know, it's like
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: weeks till we knew who the president was. I just
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: remember being like, this is strange, Like something is like
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: this should it be like this?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: And so I started kind of paying attention. I mean
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: I was only like twenty, and then like nine to
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: eleven happened, and then it was like we were all
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: in it, you know, I mean make.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: Sure remember just it was like it was like.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Everything felt very different and very real and very terrifying.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: And started to think about, like, I don't know, have
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: a more global perspective.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Then I got and I got kind of more and more,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: you know, became kind of a news junkie and all
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: the rest of it. But you did, yeah, I mean
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: for sure, like after I kind of just felt like
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: I needed to understand like what was happening, you know.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was all especially back then. I
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: mean now everything feels anything that's happening feels more or
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: less very central to the US, Like it's all kind
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: of like what's happening here? And how do we figure
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: it out? But yeah, then it was kind of like
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: what like whoa like a Sunni and a Shia and
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: you know, a bath and like it's like like what
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: are these? You know? And I mean perhaps or should
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: be ashamed, but yeah, who knew? You know, I barely
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: knew what a Democrat and Republican? Was it that exactly
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: know anything? But yeah, weird weird times you were talking
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: about how you mentioned how you were cool. Yeah, we
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: can wrap up. What do you What do you do
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: to warm up? Vocally?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Typically, I've never done I've been on tour with people
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: that do the vocal you know that. No, no, Nony Noon.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: All like do it to like the tapes and stuff that,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: you know, never did that.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: I just I mean, my I don't really have any magic,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: magic tricks. It's like a lot of a lot of
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: like tea and I mean I've tried all kinds of
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: like things like various potions and singers, saving Grace and
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: like low quad and all the stuff you can get
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: at the health food store. And then if you're really
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: desperate and you gotta play a big show, the secret
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: is the rock doc. It will come to your show,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: depending on what city you're in and give you a
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: cortizone shot and like a beach well shot in your ass,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: and then you can sing like you've never sang before.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: But the problem is when your voice gets sore, it's
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: your body telling you to like rest it.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: And like if you get a steroid shot.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: You can sing loud and great, but you're just you're
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: just you know, you're taking your your vocal cords and
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: your throat and everything to like a place they shouldn't
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: be taken to, just like physically speaking. So I've had
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: like times where I'll like I'll resort to that and
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: then you know, the next morning, I'm like, really, I
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: can't talk, you know. So it's kind of a that's
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: like a desperate desperate times situation. But you always hear
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: like remembers about like there's some people that get one
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: before like every show, you know, the older like Steven
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Tyler or something.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I remember walking in on someone one time
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: was done it. It's like the first time.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like, oh ship, Yeah, it's it's
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: it's really fun like the show you play on it
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: because you're like all like, you know, roid it out
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: and I feel, you know, you didn't rip your shirt
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: off and scream your lad.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: And yeah, we're waiting for that era. Connor Oberst. Man
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: like the jiu jitsu d.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Connor Trent Reznor can lift weights? You know, I don't
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: see why I can't.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: It's a great point. It's a great point, cool man.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks for thanks for indulging me.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: I feel like I took little more time than I
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: needed to, but just it was fun to talk to.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: You, and it's great talking to you the music, So
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for doing it.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Connor Oberst for taking time out of his
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: vocal rest to have a chat about his new album,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Five Dices All Threes and to talk through his lengthy career.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: You can hear some of our favorite Connor Obersts and
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: Saddle Creek songs on a playlist in the episode description,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: Broken Record. Broken Record is produced by Leah Rose with
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: is Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm just enrichment