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Transcript

What Are Core Services? · B Shifter

• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the B Shifter Podcast.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Got John Vance, Nick Brunacini, Terry Garrison.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while, boys.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Good to see you.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a while.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: We've been busy.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Back in Phoenix.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've been doing stuff.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Here in Phoenix at the AVB C T C.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of stuff going on this fall and winter.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Calendar is posted for the first quarter.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are looking for classes, uh either workshops or blue card train the trainers, go to b shifter.com and get signed up.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's been flying.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: We got a new uh book.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, the fire command book.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're selling a bunch of those, aren't we?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's we're down a pallet now.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we've sold a pallet of books.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty awesome.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's we've got the plugs out there, but what's somebody gonna get in the in the new fire command third edition?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: The third edition.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: The third edition starts with uh kind of an overview of the history of the book and how it got developed and its role in the world.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And really, when you look at it, in fact, I'm gonna talk about this for just a minute.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is in the Pantheon of like what we're using in the fire service today, the first edition of Fire Command was published in 1985.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then what came after that, the very next thing was NFPA 1500 and then NFPA 1700, which became 1710 and 1700.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Fire Command was the NFPA published that, and Alan Brunicini was the author.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of a in fact, that's the only time in the history of the NFPA they've done that is they put somebody's name as listed somebody as an author on one of their publications.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: In the past, it's all just been the NFPA, and then they would list the people like in studies that did them, but you know, the it would that that was more of a informational thing that you would a pamphlet, let's say.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So and what happened is really fire command was the driving force behind those two standards.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the, I mean, that's kind of what it was all right, the way it evolved, let's say.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So then in 2000, we produced a full curriculum package in the second edition of Fire Command.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you not only had a workbook, a textbook, you had an instructor's guide with some simulations in it, and then you had a bunch of videos and DVDs, and in fact, that second edition became Blue Card later on.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we took all that stuff, merged it together, and it became the Blue Card program.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Blue Card came about in like 2008.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So being that what is that, 20 years almost of since Blue Card to the third edition of Fire Command.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, really, up to that point, Blue Card was the most up-to-date version of Fire Command, as it had tactical supervision in there, is a kind of its own thing, uh on deck to its rapid intervention capability and just all the changes we had made on the online program before it takes a lot longer to write a book than it does to update an online program.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the third edition of Fire Command comes along, and we listed all that in the very first chapter.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of the provenance of this work, and then we get into the eight functions of command.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: One of the differences in the third edition between the first two is we the transfer of command comes in the very last chapter.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just a little bit different the way it's laid out.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have the eight standard functions of command, and then the last two chapters, you have the safety effect of doing fire command.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you had command safety is like the add-on to the fire command project after Southwest Supermarkets.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that took the lessons learned from Southwest Supermarkets and updated fire command through command safety essentially.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, with the third edition, we said we're not going to redo command safety is its own book and it's fine as it is.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: What we're gonna do is put an abbreviated version inside as the the last chapter after the functions.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so what that did is it laid out kind of okay, here's the safety system we operate with, and it has task level safety, tactical level safety, and strategic level safety, and kind of the requirements of each level of the organization there and their safety routine.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then the very last chapter is mitigating and managing May Days.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of comes full circle in the thing.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it talks about, and really it it I think that's good that that chapter came very last, because if you're not doing all the chapters ahead of it, when you get to that chapter, you it ain't gonna work.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is you've already you've you've already laid out all your bait and you're done now.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're kind of stuck with the system that you put in place before that Mayday happened.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, over the last 50 years that fire command has existed, it has been revised in that way so that Incident Commander can truly, in real time, control the position and function of everybody operating inside the hazard zone.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing the third edition does is it breaks it down a little, a little simpler for us to kind of wrap our B shift brains around.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we break it into the initial operation, which is managed by the fastest, the mobile IC, the company officer who gets to the scene first and establishes command.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first four units that get there.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in real-world operations, that solves the incident problem at least half the time.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: You do it with the initial operation led by a mobile IC.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the next itineration after that's reinforced, and that's where you transfer command, and that's based on that first deriving chief making the decision they're going to transfer it and going through the transfer process.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so everything that the IC one put in place, IC2 uses to take that operation over and remain able to affect the position and function of everybody operating the hazard zone.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: See that's kind of the difference between fire command and let's say NIMS is fire command is built around 15-minute work cycles that come with operating in an SCBA and doing work inside an IDLH hazard zone.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: NIMS was never designed for that.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: NIMS is designed for a bigger deal where it's more of a defensive approach, where like the forest is on fire.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're not doing offensive operations at a forest fire.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, today the wind's blowing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to be 40 miles an hour here.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, on the west coast of Santa Ana's, if it sparks up and you got 40 miles an hour wind, you're not using any aircraft.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a huge thing in their world.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gotta be.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's so you're talking about when you get past master streams and you're using airplanes to lay water on it, you're gonna need a different system.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what NIMS was designed for.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we did a great article on that recently on bshifter.com or people could check out.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'll include that in the show notes.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's see, but that's that's kind of it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you think and during my life is I have noticed that people that really don't want to do command say they do NIMS because there's really no NIMS isn't designed for type four and five hazard zone operations.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: It never was.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, when you talk to the people that use it all the time, they'll tell you that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, well, yeah, this is what it was invented for.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So then it just becomes a political contest between systems.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to use this one because they have better uniforms or patches or whatever it is.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like the green pants.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: The words.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that that becomes the thing.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that now over time, I think most people are starting to figure out no, this is for a different thing.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in LA and there's a thousand houses on fire, you're gonna be using NIMS.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in LA and there's one house on fire, you're gonna be using fire command.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's something that looks more like that than building a 138-person command team to manage a three-month-long incident operation.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I think the third edition does a pretty good job of talking about that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, we do kind of in the back end of it talk about the differences between the two systems.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And in that article, we wrote, hey, they're not competitive.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know, but but in the standards, if you're gonna meet the objectives of NFPA standards, uh, there's nothing in risk management for like a structure fire in DEMS.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't exist.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's really, they view a lot of the tactic, well, they call it a tactical level activity.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, well, what's that even mean?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said, well, we don't at the tactical level boss manages that.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like Maydays and the rest, they said, well, yeah, we got ricks and safety officers.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, uh, too, not responsive enough, too slow, too bureaucratic a system.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be real time.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: You you you're talking short turnarounds, 15-minute work cycles.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if the safety officer doesn't get there until the fourth work cycle's happening, I mean, they miss the whole front end of the show.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what are they gonna do?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: My experience is they're gonna get there and say a bunch of stuff they could have said 10 minutes ago that is no longer applicable.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really unifies the entire response, too, is fire command.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's everybody's working for the IC.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a separate RIC doing their own thing that's completely detached.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Fire command, Alexa, over 50 years, it has become the most efficient, effective, safest way to manage your hazard zone business.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why we're here doing the eight millionth podcast on it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it it really the lunatics that invented all this before we came along knew, I think, what they were doing.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he did.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's repeatable, it's trainable, it makes you consistent.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all the good stuff.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I mean, that's kind of it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It and it it's I mean, that's what yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the third edition, that's kind of where we're at.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a, I don't know, it's been out for two or three months now.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we were I was just in Wooster, they were doing some workshops there, and like the last day, one of their chiefs showed up and he had a bunch of books he wanted signed.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, you know, so I get these books, and Gary Fleischer's like, Oh, you gotta look inside.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: He says, So, like you're leafing through like fire command, an AMP, and like everything's highlighted in four different colors, and you're like, Oh wow.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's got B shifter there, and he says, Open that one.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I open it, he's highlight, he's highlighted B shifter.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what are you?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Oh, I it's the funny parts.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I need to laugh.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to the highlighted B shifters.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go to the purple B shifter passages.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: But all my fire command books are highlighted and inked over and notes on the side, and I've been forever.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I refer to them all the time.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a resource, basically.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, that's the other part, is I think it'll fire command, and uh it's gotta be in 70% of fire station libraries.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the other part, is now you're starting to see like fire departments say, okay, we need the like two boxes of them now.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it's just getting the word out that it exists as a thing and then figuring it out.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because really, in today's world, most advertisement gets highlighted, and then the all the other ones below it that you don't want to read get highlighted, and they'll go right in the trash.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you think, okay, I'm advertising this.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in the old days, with like fire service paper magazines, like the back of Firehouse magazine was classified.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I would buy like videos that buffs would shoot at just various cities of fire department operations.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you'd play them like a roof operation in New York City, some guy, some hairdresser across the building across the way, videotaping, commentating on it for like 10 minutes.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's beautiful.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: You watch fire behavior, the whole thing, and you know, there's a little bit of comedy in there with the guy, oh my god, right away! You know, just all the drama.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was those were like the good old days.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: You wear Zubaz wrestling pants and write crazy on the board.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was on my morning walk, and I a lot of people in the neighborhood get a delivered paper.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're starting to see them on their driveways.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I saw five houses today with a delivered like a paper boy through it into the driveway, and you know, with the rubber band around it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking as a kid, we used to get the newspaper twice a day.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: We would get the morning paper, which was the LA Times, and the afternoon paper was the Herald Examiner.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: So all the stuff that happened between morning and and noon or whatever.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, there's probably an hour between the printing of each of them.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we had the Republic and the Gazette, same thing.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in fire stations, there were stacks of newspapers everywhere.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: They were like gold.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: We used them to clean windows.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, them for cleaning windows.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: All kinds of things.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was a paper boy one time.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Delivering the paper was the easy part.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to collect the buck 40 from the customers was terribly difficult.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was how awful capitalism was, then they took that out on you as a 12-year-old kid.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna dock your pay if you're customers instead of the corporation that you're delivering the papers for.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was the district manager.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had I had to I had I had like 10 kids working for me.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you are so I I had to go I had to collect from the kids.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to go get like stacks of checks from them and bring them into my boss.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the the amount of work that went the Thousand Oaks News Chronicle had 260 employees, and it's like that it was they actually had a fact checker on staff.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, man.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a digression.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the good old days.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: We went there.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Should we go into the topic then?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I thought we just did.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Today is there a topic today?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I thought there was gonna be a topic.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, but but before we leave that, suck it to me.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I thought the I thought the overview what you just did with the book was I hadn't heard that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, I haven't heard you say that because you set a places and I'm in and out, but yeah, that was actually a really good overview of that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: That could be played again and someplace else too, to kind of demonstrate what's in that book.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we kind of like that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: We did an online thing, we did an articulate thing with it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Where you could like you could you could scan the thing and it would take you to our basically online system and take you through, okay, here's the third edition, what it is.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, most I think it's probably been viewed like 200 times.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So most of our customers aren't.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go through a program to tell me what your book was.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when was the last time you got to hear an author talk about you know how their book comes together and they go through that whole deal?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't know.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Stephen King.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you did a good job with that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was so it took, I don't know.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: We started work on it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: My dad was alive.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, we kind of charted out that what this will look like.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he says we're gonna add two new uh tactical priorities to the thing, DCon and customer service.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And like, well, yeah, that just makes sense, you know.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that got added, so a lot of that was done before he went on to the vapor.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then like a year ago, it was like I I can't put this off anymore.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That this is like the one thing that has to be done in all this if we're gonna keep doing what we're doing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a group of ten of us me, Pooney, Garrito, and then you seven reviewers.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was a group, and so that made that stretched it out probably three to six months longer over what I was gonna publish.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that uh, and that was that was very good.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: That was a that was like doing the laundry, as you're like, oh, it's all everything's where it needs to be now.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a lot of like, why did you call it this and say this?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because we teach this and that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, back and forth, back and forth.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it because like both sides had were right.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, we gotta somehow amend this so this all right so all the doors swung the right way at the end of it.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you had a vetting process to make sure that everything was consistent by including the technical editors, so that was kind of a nice.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was that made the book better.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: The seven people who reviewed it made the book probably 70% better than it would have been.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's an outstanding piece of work.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I I really like it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not just saying it because this is what I like the guys who vetted it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do too, in particular.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the number one.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and the what I really like is now is Chris Stewart is taking the book, and it's gonna become the sometime next year, you'll have a new online program that matches the book.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it is it's it's all going good.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, today's topic that we would like to talk about um is is really talking about core services versus added value.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this will be a part of the silverback program.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: The silver back program is rolling on.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: In 2027, there'll start to be some live silverback classes.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you go online, take the silverback modules, and then go to a live class.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that we're talking about with Silverback is core services versus added value.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought let's define what those are because there's been some discussion a lot lately in in a various ways.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: One has to do with public education, the other has to do with EMS, where there's fire departments out there wanting to shed EMS altogether, some want to just shed their transport ability or capability.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So because it waters down so much what the core core services are.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what our uh core services are first, then we'll get into added value.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting that people do you you use the word shed, shed, shed.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they want to shed their certain parts of the core, what we would consider core services.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And over the years, we've added core services, and you know, there gets to a point where I wouldn't I'm sure a firefighter in a fire station says, that's enough.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've I'm I'm busy, that's enough.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, need any more cur core services, chief.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever it is you went and saw someplace else, don't bring it back because we're extremely busy and doing the things we gotta do.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And my 24 or 48 hour shift is taken up with this, this, this, and this.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we gotta kind of understand that from the firefighters' point of view, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there are stuff firefighters that are extremely busy, and it's not fair to push more on them, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when you you talked about the public education piece that we'll get into later, we probably ought to think about the firefighters' position for that their point of view and and how that gets delivered.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I think when we start talking about the core services, and we have that as a number one section in our silverback leadership, is we s we talk about the work.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we go through a little bit of a history of how we got to where we are with the work we are today, and Nick does a good job with that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it it started, you know, you just start to think about EMS and when EMS started, when paramedicine started, with uh I think uh medics coming back from the Vietnam War and seeing how trauma was being uh uh managed on the on the uh battlefield and then bringing that back and a lot of what we did back then.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: I became a firefighter in 77, so paramedicine had already started.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: When did it start, Nick?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Was it 72 or 74?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was in the 70s.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: The probably 74.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: 74.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: 73, 70.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, LA was one of the first adopted.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I got a smile on my face when you said veterans coming back that were medics, war medics.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and I worked with one of those guys, they call him a meatball medic because he was he was a field medic in in Vietnam.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: The real deal.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: They would call those guys meatball medics, but uh that that was.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Only if you only if they allowed it, I would imagine.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: They're pretty tough people.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and then well, it was effective.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: They said if you could stabilize an injured person and get them to a field hospital within an hour, their survivability went through the roof.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: The well wound up like 90% or some such thing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're Vietnam, it it's they're coming back, they're thinking, well, why don't we do there's no difference in being shot in a rice patty in Vietnam than there is in the ghetto in LA.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's a shooting's a shooting.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the fire department was already set up to do first one second counts, you know, to protect the community against fire.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we were just a natural Well, we were we had decentralized workers that were ready to respond.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when you trained them to do the job, they can respond in a timely manner and do the job.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the other part is the fire service was the most highly trainable group of workers.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and it like early in EMS, you hear the old guy saying, Well, no, you you can't do that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can't poke people with needles and give them drugs.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: You got to go to the hospital.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so these young medics bringing my family into this government.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, except yeah, and my ancestors, right?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, gold chains and Italian horns, you know, 22 years old, and we had big belt buckles.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and you did.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's got a big thing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I remember back in the day, it was the orange box, and it had like oxygen cylinders, and the bottom had a car battery, a 12 Volt battery that was hooked up to all the telemerald tree.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so heavy the medics you had to have a ladder crew to take the medic gear in because it was just it weighed like 85 pounds.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: This thing.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: I got to picture me somewhere where I'm carrying an orange box, and then you get and you have to put the antennas up.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you would.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was one.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: The satellite dish, the whole thing, man.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is squad 51.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: But it but it but it, you know, you think about the core services.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: So originally the core services, the fire service, and you talk about everything.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Stop the fire.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then and could I uh hold that thought just for one second because I I know there's people listening that they're gonna go, these guys were completely wrong, and I said it completely wrong.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So 1966 was the turning point for uh paramedicine because there was a national study put out.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: 1967 and 68, the first modern paramedics at the Freedom House Ambulance Service in Pittsburgh in 1966.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you checked that because we don't want to short anybody on that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: In 68 and 69, St.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Vincent Hospital in New York, Miami Fire Department launched the first city ran paramedic program.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oddly enough, how cool is that?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: We give LA all the credit for that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 1972, thanks to emergency, there was public awareness of it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's actually Miami.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry to interrupt, but I wanted to get that too.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, it was close enough anyway.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: We were off a few years, but the induction into the fire service came around the mid-70s.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's when people really started uh Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was good.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So part of that Well, and see the other thing that did Vance is that changed uh socially because what that did is that brought firefighters and nurses together in occupational clinical settings that became the background for deep romance and affection.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And lawsuits, and failed marriages.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's call it yeah, adult drama.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Adult drama and uh alimony, leakage, and only seeing the kids every other weekend.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess you know it was better if you were single as a young paramedic than a older married guy working in Smitty's.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, probably you ended up single.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, but anyway Well, many of you did.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Many of you notice how he says that, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was amazing because I was just on a job about two years.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was I got hiber when I was 19, and I think the pair being a paramedic increased my pay like by$428 a month.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like doubled it almost.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was incredible.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: No brainer, yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Applied for and got selected and got to go to the training.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: But to me, that was a really big deal.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: So then when I did get divorced, I was able to pop out for she doesn't know about that incentive page.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, she knew about all of it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And but yeah, so we went that, and then I think the next one, and I can't remember, Nick, but help me out here.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Then we kind of moved into uh there was a lot of over over-the-road trucking accidents, so we kind of moved into the hazardous material where we became the hazardous material experts.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you got fixed facilities that were having hazmat issues.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what it was is there was a group of hazmaters that went to the NFPA, and this is a million years ago, and they said, we need you can't do structural firefighting with hazardous material situations.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna kill firefighters in bunches.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: You we have to have a different approach because we're out of control for structure fires, and when you take that same approach to hazardous materials, it goes boom and we're all gone.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where that began.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they wanted to do a standard through the NFPA, and they had already produced a lot of it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the NFPA told them no, that's that's not the way we write standards.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're consensus standards, we get the experts together and yada yada.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the Hasmat guys are sitting there and said, Well, that's us.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've already done this.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we and so somebody at the NFPA said you should go to IFSAC, the International Fire Service Accreditation Congress, because they will do non-NFPA standards.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and that's where you get the outside standard recognition, and that they'll do what you want.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what they did, and they did it through IFSAC, and then the NFPA backdoored later on and did the same thing.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's kind of the way it works.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we did the same thing with Blue Card is we were gonna process it through the NFPA to get it a certification-based thing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the NFPA looked at it, and because the ProQalls of 1026 that connect to 1561, they said, no, uh, you you're you this system is designed for NIMS type four and five.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's not an NFPA standard for NIMS 4 and 5.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Out of the ProQalls.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: The ProQalls were all for NIMS static IMTs.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it was NIMS type one, two, and then the few states that did threes were in there.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: But even today, that article used a more recent worksheet, checkoff sheet for performance, and it went NIMS type one to three.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was no four and five.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if SAC said, yeah, there's no NFPA standard for this.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if SAC certified blue card.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when they did that, I said at the time, I said, it's no longer you NIMS compliant, it's blue card compliance if you're talking about NIMS type four and five incident operations.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's well, everybody was no, we're ain't doing that, you know.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then you had the 9-11 and the the the one two-eyed NIMS went one-eyed NIMS and all that, and so then it became a thing.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then today it's like, no, I think they're staying more closer to the reality, thinking, no, this is and and you can see it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing in NIMS that deals with type four and five risk management and firefighter safety and survival, it just isn't in the program, it was never intended to be.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that they're doing NIMS forest fire stuff.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's they got airplanes and shit.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's digression again, but uh talking to uh Josh Bloom the other day.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going to a command class and there's somebody from public works and public health and community development, and that's not that's not that that's not our incident command program that we use every day with the fire department.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a completely different thing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Those are 12-hour operational periods.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot substitute that for for fire.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, they're on the fire ground.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're standing next to the command posts.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and what you're starting to see now is the legal profession is catching up to this.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, no, we understand what standards are and what all this means.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Lawyers figure this out pretty quick because that's where their incomes are connected to.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you look over the last couple years, some of the lawsuit, the verdicts that the survivors of dead firefighters are doing in the thing and and and the the payouts, and it it's bankrupting communities.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, you have to do a better job of managing the hazard zone and the safety of your workers.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's really what it boils down to.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and you just a real quick sideways step.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when you started talking about standards, we just had a conversation in the other room about silverback leadership and kind of where we're going with our program, and we talked about standards because there are you talk about standards on the fire ground and NFPA standards, but there's also standards and expectations on leadership and accountability and all those kind of things.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And really, what that's what the Silverback Leadership Program is really going to be about, is identifying the standards within that organizational leadership role, all the way down from the fire chief, all the way down to the the supervisor, and actually everybody's role, including uh the worker.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then how do you how do you apply leadership and how do you move an organization forward?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: How do you hold members accountable?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thinking about and related to those standards.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna get into that as part of that Silverback leadership.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, more of the core services, going back to core services of what we do.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of them, the most hazardous thing we do is structural firefighting.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's where you get the most injuries and lost time accidents, line of duty deaths.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: That all comes from fireground operations.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: The long term, and we put it in as firefighter decon, cancer.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: More firefighters die of cancer every year now than die in the line of duty at actual incidence scenes.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, what's 9-11?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: 343, and it's man, it's thousands have died of cancer, and the recovery of that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So as an element of delivering the core services.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when we go on an EMS call, you have universal precautions.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: You got gloves, you got masks, you got all those things, you use sterile needles to just the whole deal.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Eye protection.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all of it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, eye protection.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no, no, let's get let's keep on.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's keep going to it.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna disrupt us.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that that is an executive level thing the fire department has to provide is the safety and well ongoing welfare of the employees, especially those that are engaged in high-risk work, like structural firefighting.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the the days of, oh, you know, it just comes with the job and it's part of the thing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if something happens, we you know, we'll have a funeral and and celebrate their life.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's it's a different time.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what's happening today.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: That may be the traditional approach inside the fire department that we all kind of grew up with, but now it's you have a different court cases going on on the back end.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at them, well, this most recent one where they did the$30 million judgment, the jury met for two hours and came back with that.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't like we anguished over it for weeks.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And two hours, the that that trial showed if I was a juror, and like they knew going in the room what they were gonna do.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, this is a crime, the way this person died.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you hear the details around that, you just you're like people should go to jail, maybe, over some of this stuff.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: That that this is this is dereliction of duty of the the leadership of the fire departments.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then it becomes, well, you watch it today, it becomes like a circular firing squad.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my fault, it's not my fault.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's that old deal with the two questions, right?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Was there a process or was there a standard?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: One question.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Second one, did you follow it?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's pretty uh easily identified.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this last one, they said, yeah, there's these standards, and the fire department, we don't have to follow those.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the lawyer's like, these are fire service standards.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't follow them until your own deficit and and uh exposure.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, then you can see what happens.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: You you and a lot of these you look at and you think this is it shouldn't be this way.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you can't, it doesn't make any sense.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's also preventable, a lot of it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it when you look at the outcome on the back end, it's like, okay, what did you save?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, nothing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna haul it all out to the dump.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that that that we knew that at the moment, they did whatever they did that that cost them their life.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, no, you can't.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: If we allowed the public to come in and access that scene and they were killed, we would be liable for that.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes you're like, we bring our own victims to the thing.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've throwing another virgin down the volcano, I guess.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't make any sense to me.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can't.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's systems that prevent that that cause you to be more effective, to deliver better level of service.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So well, so back to that core services, too, because it's easy to, you know, you get this thing just circles around, but wherever you have an employee until the drain clogs, and then you have a problem.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Wherever you have an employee show up for work in a hazard zone or at a fire station, as an employer, you got certain responsibilities to take care of that employee, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna talk about that in the silverback leadership too.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: What it what it takes to actually provide a safe workplace for those employees in every sense of the word, safe workplace, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we talked about we went from EMS, went to paramedicine, well, firefighters, hazmat, hazmat, TRT was the next one, right?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: They've got into that TRT.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: And once again, we got people that are quick, firefighters are quick learners, they get stuff, it makes sense to them.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Most of this stuff has to do with you work with your hands.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tactile skills.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, firefighters are great at that, so we took that on.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: There could have been at some point the police service could have said, hey, we want to do this.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: They they're decentralized, they have they have many people out there.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: There was times when like, and I think it still happens, is okay, the police force is going to do some of the paramedicine or gonna do the EMS.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't work.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, because because of the way they receive their law enforcement, yeah, they enforce the law, they don't treat the medical people.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: So as this core service continues to develop, it's just because we were so our ancestors were so good at what they did that when something else was identified as a work that needed to be done within a timely manner throughout the entire community.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: First one seconds count.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Emergency services.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: We were there.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: See, and we ended up with all of it outside of law enforcement, which I mean, I can't imagine during my career that we would give up any of that.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like EMS, and they and some of it drove you crazy, like ambulances.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I would do ambulances different if if today, if I was in charge of who was going to be on the ambo, I would make a induction into the fire department that you had to serve on the ambo first, and then you became a firefighter.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you would draw your firefighter ranks off the ambulances.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was a bridge getting hired.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then in my experience, you take a young firefighter who just gets off probation, and then you put them on an ambo where you're really going to learn who they are, then.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's every now and then you get surprised.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: You think, I did not think that you were a whine and hyperventilator like this.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can't, I enjoy like you knew you see them in action.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you knew the steps getting in.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so you got two years on this thing, and then you think, well, Jesus, I I wouldn't hire you.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: If I mean this was it'd be better to hire you on the ambo, they would have they would have self-regulated better because they would have known if I disrupt this, I don't get hired as a firefighter later on.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a better way to do the career.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is, is we use the ambulances in the fire service for staffing emergency response on the fire ground.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you if you undo the ambos, you're gonna lose those positions in most systems, and then you lose your staffing for the fire ground.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it becomes like it's just the way it built and all clumped together.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the planet's not perfectly round, there's lumps on it that you can't go back and make smooth.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's from the perspective of the firefighters and from the organization as far as that's inside.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when I think about core services, I think what what are we doing to help the customer?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: What we should do, the core services that we should do, should add value to the customer, whether it's EMS, hazmat, TRT, paramedicine, public education, we'll talk about.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: But with the ambulance piece, and I had I just worked for a city manager who wasn't ready for us to take over the ambulance service yet.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I would tell him time and time again it is better for the customer when we own the pre-hospital medical care system from dispatch all the way to delivery at the hospital.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: When we have it inside our organization, we have firefighters, paramedics taking care of that patient all the way through the process.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's better for the patient.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's seamless, is what it is.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's seamless.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: It gets the patient there at information.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe that.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I think fire departments are better at doing it.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, just look at the the benefits uh in the the salary of a firefighter compared to like a private ambo person.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they're making at least twice as much in most cases, a fire department firefighter working on an ambulance.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that helps with service delivery, you would think.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you're you're making more, you're a professional, we expect a certain behavior out of you.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't treat the patient like they're a like you got the pox because you have to transport them to the hospital.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, and like you said, it it becomes a continuous system that you can affect a lot easier.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you have those employees that you can that you own, that I shouldn't say own, that work for you for a very long period of time.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so their behavior is more consistent.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: The one thing I see in ambulance, and that's probably really good private service ambulance operators out there, EMTs or paramedics, but they don't have that longevity and the pro and that organization behind them.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a stepping stone.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: When you see them boom, boom, boom, most of them probably what I thought through most of my career is most people wanted to become firefighters.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: What I found out later is that's not always the case.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's some people that want to be ambulance attendants their entire life and they want to do a good job.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, work on that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: We had them in Phoenix.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're like 20-year firefighters that were on Ambos.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: So but I think I think it's better when we start focusing on the core services to think about how does this impact the customer?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: How do we help the customer, and then how do we do that in a safe way for our firefighter?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: We should never take on anything that's that's unsafe, right?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: We should develop a process to deliver that service in a safe manner as as the best we can.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So then we give to fire prevention, right?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're I should say public education.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: So to you, is public education a core or an added value?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it's a core service.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think from my years of experience is that when we can get out and engage the public, and and you know, you'll hear when you're out, I anybody who's done a public safety event on public education, somebody will tell a story about how they attended a public education event at some time in their life and then acted in a certain way to prevent harm to another citizen, right?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that because I heard that, and I just I opened the door, or I checked the back of the door with the the door with the back of my hand, or I got down low and I was able to get out.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Or there's some sort of somebody learned something that they were able to apply later to help another citizen.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that what public education is about?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is teaching people to help themselves or their fellow family members?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: We had three different school districts in in my city, and the one school district mandated a public education session in kitchen fire safety for everyone going through home ec.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had a kid who was doing something with hot oil, 13 years old, trying to fry up some onion rings, and he remembered just put the lid on the pot.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Don't throw it, don't put water on.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that saved the house.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there it was scorched in the kitchen.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to use stories like that to show not only the public, but also our people.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: See, these messages matter.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: We save that house because that kid remembered to put the the lid on the pot.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: The most positive reputation we get in our community is from those events, from those classes.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you do have I I've seen and and I've seen organizations when they pile too much on a fire company.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Too many events, too much.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do that.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta leave time for training, response calls, eating, resting.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be a lot of people.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the things we got rid of during my career as a firefighter was inspections.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember that is they took inspections from us because we were going out and doing basically a review of the safety of this occupancy, and we could write citations that would cost them money.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: And in some cases, tens of thousands of dollars.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there was too big a swing between companies doing inspections.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: So one company would do a real inspection and another company would walk through and just pencil whip.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we stopped doing that because we weren't really qualified to do fire prevention and reviews and inspections.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just was Nick.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't think, unless it's a specific part of your fire prevention job, firefighters aren't good at any kind of enforcement.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: But education is completely different.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what we did instead is we would do pre-plans.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes sense.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we would go out and they gave us drawing boards and you would do a just a loose pre-plan, and we had digital cameras, you could take pictures of certain tactical things, and then you could upload those into the address for that occupancy when you were dispatched.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, that had a huge value, especially as like a response to.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I use that all the time.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the other value is the building familiarization.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you're getting your folks into these commercial occupancies, which we know are far more hazardous to firefighters than the residential occupancy.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was reasonable how you're not inspecting them.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're in there doing a walkthrough for your own benefit, tactically.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you see something that's crazy, you're like, I don't know.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be this is the vampires are running this and they're draining blood out of people.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to get the police involved.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or whatever it is.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: You turn it into your actual inspector who's going to come out and then write the$10,000.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Don't enforce.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but as we got rid of one, I was on a ladder truck and we adopted the school down the street.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And once a quarter, we would go and spend like 45 minutes in a classroom with like third graders.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: And our corporate communications division had curriculum that we would give to the kids, like sticker books and shit like that.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then we would just kind of stick on a basic script of like home safety, whatever it was, home at cooking, whatever.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you got to hang out.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that would expose firefighters to teachers instead of nurses, I guess.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the circle was complete.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: The kids loved it.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: And teachers are they're not going to fall for that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: They deal with childish behavior.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they know B shifters.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it was good, you know.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it was and the crew, two engineers and a firefighter.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: They couldn't have been sweeter.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: The kids loved them and they wouldn't ask, Let's let them love it coming back.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there we go.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: The raging queen, baby.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Available too.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: We don't despise vertical ventilation.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: We just put it on the back of the share.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so I think the key to that is workload, right?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we when we decided how many of those walkthroughs we were going to do and diagrams or how many people educate, the union got involved.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they we would have a conversation about get them in the room and say, hey, here's how busy our workforce is.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a good time to do it.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: How many a month?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: How many a year?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever, right?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the union's always gonna be, it's almost like buying a used car and be down here, and we're gonna be up here and we're gonna be.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're too busy.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just argued to play basketball the first hour of the day.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: But we're too busy to do these other things.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: You were mad.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's different.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, yeah.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: We took the pickleball court out of the firehouse, and now you're mad about that.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, the you the labor groups are really good when you start talking about the customer and how this helps the customer, and it's the right thing to do.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Terry, you bring up labor, that's gonna be part of the silverback thing.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: The two-day, we're gonna we got our labor buddy who's gonna be part of it.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Alan Brunicini's constantly area.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's gonna be good.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I mean people that are in the valley here, that that person is Derek Johnson.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and you can say that name over and over again, and you will not get a frown or a disgusted look out of anybody.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody who knows this guy knows that he knows what he's talking about, he's the real deal, and we're gonna bring him in.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: We found the expert, and we're gonna bring him in, and he's gonna have to.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as an example, core services.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about core services taking care of the workforce.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: One of the guys who's gonna be part of this is Martin Dyer, the fire chief from Wooster.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he has he has done some things that are are incredible.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: The Worcester Fire Department is they're doing very well.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just sat with them for a few days.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and they're they're they're a charming group of individuals, truly.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're they're they're from Massachusetts all the way back.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Back to this core service and the the whenever you're gonna uh add a program or implement a new, get the people that are actually gonna do the work in the room and talk to them about it.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: You don't, you may not, you may think you know what their workload is, and you may get them in the room and be surprised.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: You may be surprised when they say, Yeah, we'll love to do that.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: May be surprised that we don't time have time to do that, Chief.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's frustrating because we'll have HR departments all the time.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like HR, every time we had a training session, somebody from HR, I shouldn't say every time, but I'm gonna say every time because it sounds better.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: They want a piece of our training.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I want it, we would need to cover this, so we need to cover that.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's not really training.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's information.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how else can you get out information?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Can you send an email?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Can you do it in a video?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can you well no what they want is they will they want you guys, these these people, these instructors people listen to talk about tattoos and haircuts.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, no, the reason they'll listen to us because we don't talk about tattoos and haircuts.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: I get both those.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we then we yeah, we're self-regulating that way.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: That ain't our problem.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're we don't need it.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna stick on the core services here, the stuff that gets us in trouble, that kills us, uh yeah, yeah, disrupts the customer's day, all those things.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Two points.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Bruno said, I know I heard him say at least once, it's good to meet people not on their worst day.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're because we're in the business of meeting people on their worst days.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: When we can connect with them at the grocery store, at a school, you know, like you guys are talking about, the business down the street, we do a walkthrough just as a you know, check for us.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if there is a fire there at three o'clock in the morning, we know the hazards, we know how the building's laid out.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: That that's a good opportunity for us.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want people to remember that.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is, and you brought it up with talking to labor when we're adding things to the menu to have that discussion or walk a mile in their shoes.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: I kept doing that to the battalion chiefs, you know, and I had a staff of regular chiefs and then uh three battalion chiefs, one per shift.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I filled in for one one day, and then I apologized to them the next staff meeting.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I keep piling stuff on you guys, and and and no one's really screamed uncle, at least to my face.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I could not get done what I needed to get done, even with just running seven calls in one day, plus all the other crap that I gave the battalion chiefs to do.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I told myself, it's like I'm done delegating anything else to these guys, they're busy enough.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to walk a mile in their shoes however you do that.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, sir.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: But the other part is like you you brought this up and said, you know, there's fire departments that are considering get dumping service.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're not gonna do EMS anymore.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things you got to factor into that is like when you stop doing certain work, you don't get paid for that work anymore.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, your example, like you went$500 more a month in salary becoming going from a firefighter to a firefighter paramedic.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the if you give up EMS, you ain't doing that.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, you're you're gonna give money up.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have to get the whole unit together and say, hey, if we get rid of this, then this is gonna be the effect of this later on.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're gonna lose pay somebody to do it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, somebody else is gonna pick it up and they're gonna get paid to do that work.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way Don't be mad about that.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way labor works in the world.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: You get paid for the labor you perform in a capitalistic society.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to, at least.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so giving up work, you give up resources, including salary in that.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there's unintended consequences in everything that we do or intended sometimes, and and you need to look at that.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I even look at that, and this is an another rabbit hole, but changing our schedules around.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you want to talk about the safest schedule.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, is that going to be a 12-hour shift?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's city council members that are currently asking that question when we start pitching 2472s.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, well, then how about 12-hour shifts?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, we have a fourth shift.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we can do 12 hours.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: We can get rid of the beds.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which we'd love to do.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: They would love to do that.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't understand minimum staffing, a lot of them.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Vance, you talked about a fire department where the fire chief says, we're gonna keep doing, we're gonna do mediocre core services, no added value.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then nobody expects anything out of us, and then we just do brake jobs on our cars all day.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a part-time job for them.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, well, that's you've got people that really don't want to service the community.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're there for other reasons.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be able to be a mechanic and I don't know, have a bunch of big red apparatus, whatever it is.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: But see, that's where the leadership, when the leadership's driving that, qualified people are gonna go to other organizations.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna say, no, this ain't for me.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna, you guys do your club and I'm gonna go work for a and you don't really care about the future of your department.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, you exactly.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about legacy and tradition and everything.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if if that's what you're doing, if you want to purposely be mediocre, you don't give a crap about the future of the department.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't learned that.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a big world out there.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: So core services, emergency response.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: You guys you guys hit them.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: We so we're in we're into public education.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're saying that that's a core service.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else that we want to add to that menu before we get to added value?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what else.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even public education's an activity.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: We I I don't even think of that as a service, prevention's a service, so and that's split up.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that that service is split up between like 40 hour everyone.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone, it's your job.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you're the fire chief and you're walking through and it's a blocked exit, you're gonna do something about it.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Part of public education is enforcing the fire code.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, that would be an element, but you know, they and then the other part, I guess it would fall to I worked on a ladder, and I don't know, we were went on about 3,000 runs a year.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, like going to a school 45 minutes four times a year really I mean, that didn't stick in our craw.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we kind of enjoyed it.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean so there's there's a couple of categories of added value then, and and one of that is our service calls.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when when we get called for water leaking, or we get called, you know, I went on a call, there was a guy with a raccoon trap on his roof, and he was scared to get it down, so we went and got it off for him.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I always look at things like that as I'm also doing injury prevention.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: If this guy isn't comfortable on a ladder, I don't want to see him falling off the second floor of his house.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we're we're in service.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: If we got an emergency call in the middle of this thing, the emergency call takes presence.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just look at it.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody calls you to take a raccoon in a trap off the roof, and you actually respond to the scene and get there.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: It takes what 10 minutes to do that, yes, or it takes five minutes to yell at the guy, and then another three hours to unwind it after he makes a complaint.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier just to say, no, you you're gonna get 10 minutes, we're gonna be nice to you, we're gonna give you the thing.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Have a nice day, sir.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Love and kisses.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: There are some things, some of those kind of activities that occur that you make a core service.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like there, we have communities that do snake removal.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Then because there's a lot of rattlesnakes.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: People are afraid of rattlesnakes, including hopefully you guys.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm not.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: I ain't messing with snakes.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so that we're gonna make that a core service.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's but when we start talking about just think if you put like a puma on a ladder truck and just unleash it on the okay, we're gonna drop a puma off to take care of your snake.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: A food shake.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're pumas on strike.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, mongoose.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: We were Nick and I spent a lot of time talking about core service and added value.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: And our goal at the end of the day would be that or I'm gonna say it simply, and then we'll talk about it, is that the added value piece becomes part of your core service delivery system.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that every time you see somebody who you think, you know what, I'm gonna help that person.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not part of the call, but I'm gonna help that person just a little bit more than it says in my over here in the SOPs, that's a added value.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be something very simple as helping somebody off the bed.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, talking to a family member and taking a raccoon off a roof.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that doesn't fall under any of our service delivery.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's not hazmat or TRT or fire.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's we have to be.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: The story with the woman on the bench, Nick.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: Give that the old lady.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: The little little little lady on the bench.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, this really happened.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: This this one these people come to Phoenix, Arizona to, you know, to to study the this added value thing.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: So my old man's driving around one day, and they're talking about this.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's got the guy in his car along.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's got the guy in his car, and they're they're gonna go to lunch, and they're just in traffic, and there's a fire engine ahead of them, and it stops short of the light.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Well, what the hell are they doing?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as they drive up and see, these guys have put an old lady who's got her groceries into the truck and they're gonna take her home.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Rainy day.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's raining, and she's headed at the bus stop.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: So this guy says, What the hell are they doing?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, I think they're giving her a ride home.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: He says it's raining, she got her groceries.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I would guess.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Really?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: You let them do that?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: He looks at himself, what do you mean I let them do that?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's a nice thing to do.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Oh, the liability.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Well, now he's talking to Alan Bruno Singh.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Oh, why don't you tell me about liability some?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: He says, That fire truck turns lights and sirens on, they'll break every traffic law in the world, but that's okay.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: We can't give an old lady with her groceries a ride home.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, so the guy's like, Well, God, you say it like that.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Well, yeah, you're come on.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what are we here to do?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, It didn't take them two minutes to give that old lady a ride home.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, You think she's gonna tell anybody?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, she's gonna tell everybody she knows.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who does she love?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, well, I don't know, maybe it went against his testosterone-driven whatever idealized version dragon hunter he was.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, we're not here to give old ladies rights home.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of being nice, right?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of being.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's what came up yesterday.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about core value and added core services and added value.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the group says being nice ain't part of added value.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of being a core service firefighter.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't hire assholes to go out and subjugate the community.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: We don't do that.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: People in Minneapolis did not burn fire stations down ever.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a reason for that.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's no reason, there's a reason there's not a song called F the Firefighters.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: That went platinum.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like these guys are gonna now drive the rest of the day around to every business.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're not an Uber.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: They just that was a moment in time where they said, Hey, let's help this little lady out.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm guessing they probably knew her somehow.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she was probably a frequent whatever it was, they recognized that she had groceries and needed to go home.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, whatever it was, they got her on the truck at my they knew her house.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my dad.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's always made the example for me.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so he says, Really, you don't have to be rude about it.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: You just kind of keep pointing out what they did and what he's arguing against.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: He said, It didn't make any sense.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can't you can't connect, it's hard to be an asshole and be a fire, a good firefighter.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: It just it it it's too difficult.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go into a different line of work where maybe they give you a gun.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but that's helping people just can't be your concept of helping people by putting fires out.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that's I there there's there's there's a small none in today's world.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we do so much more than that.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, at our core, that's who we are, though.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: We are a bunch of firefighters, which is that's the best, man.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: You work for an organization ten personality types, they're all this it's the it's it's it's fantastic.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: In our silverback leadership, we have a and there's probably 10 of them, and I would don't remember them all now, but we call them phrases and Bruno.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is Bruno's list.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're like dinosaurs tactical truths almost.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, what are the what are the phrases, organizational sayings that kill added value?
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a wonderful list, and we'll get it out.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't wait to see that.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, just think about some of the things that people say, like if we do that, everybody will want it, right?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: That isn't what I came on the job to do.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do that fuzzy, sissy stuff.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the other oh, what about the liability?
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've I we never did it this way.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is that this takes us off our mission and we're not available to do important work, but whatever it is.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many excuses and not to do just something nice for somebody.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if once you do that, you'll see.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: We had a we had another program called the connector program, which was it it started off being really an interesting program.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we had people that were getting injured that couldn't be on the fire apparatus.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: So back then, you okay, well, you can't be on an engine, so you're gonna have to work eight to twelve eight to five every day.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, staff job five.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get a staff job.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how about if we create a 24-hour job in the dispatch center with these injured firefighters?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: And what their job is to connect the customer.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: A customer calls for a raccoon on a roof.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's try to connect that customer with the right agency and try to and they had a whole list.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was two-page list of a connector program that was kind of interesting.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they had a van, so they could leave the alarm room and go like take people places.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was a it was a they didn't have to carry people, they drove them.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: They people were able to step into the van and step out of the van.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's two of them for safety and all that.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: But okay, so now we made the firefighters happy because they're still on their 24-hour shift.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: They get to go at night if they get a call, they get up and respond.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: They walk across the hall to the dispatch center and and deal with the customer.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the A-Shift captain on the ladder got his knee fixed, and he became a connector.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there was we had a patient at like 28th Street in Roosevelt that was a frequent flyer.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'd see her at least once a week.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: One of the ships would.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so we go on her, and she she always complained of stomach pain.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, okay, then we take her to the hospital.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: We would just put her on the LT and just drop her off at County ER.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she got off.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we go on her, and I called and I told him who it was.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Oh, it's Mary.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yep, it's Mary again.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, She's she there's something wrong with her.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, the the county ain't fixing it.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: So he calls and he talks to Mary, then he calls the hospital.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, and he looks it up.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we had transported Mary like 16 times over the last 12 months.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, We keep taking this patient to your hospital for the same complaint.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't do anything.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: You give her a pill and release her.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then she calls us three weeks later with the same thing.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: The next time she goes in, she's flagged.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they end up doing abdominal surgery on her and they fixed her.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was because the connector actually called the hospital and made a fuss over you gotta stop doing this.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is wearing your ER out.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you would just fix her, you that's one less patient you're gonna see.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, there was huge value.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: And those guys who would actually do nothing before they go to the academy and drink coffee and flirt with the secretary for eight hours.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was a great job.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: You could yeah, yeah, long lunch, whole deal.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, using them there, they actually did God's work then.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's saving a life, really, when you look at it.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she could have had a rust ruptured appendix or something that would have been.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whatever it was.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they they gave her back her quality of life after they fixed her, we never saw her again.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh not that we didn't want to see her as a pleasant person, but the key, just one more time, is if if you can get your organization, your members to deliver that added value consistently to where it becomes and and celebrate when they do something, you know.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as a leader, celebrate when something some company does something.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_02: If I would find out something positive about it, send something to the company, send to the battalion.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, thanks for doing that.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrate the little wins along the way.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a big deal, and then people, it's a big deal.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: People like that, and then eventually, hopefully, that will become more consistent and added value because and then you get to know identify when somebody's really not being nice, and then you get to deal with those people, you got to deal with the back end of that too.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: But well, added value is the easiest to do, it doesn't cost anything, it takes the least amount of time.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: Core services are are hugely complicated that we deliver.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at the apparatus we have to move the amount of water, and we can do it from elevated areas, and then you put paramedicine in it, and then hazmat and technical rescue.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: The core services, you have to be a highly intelligent, physically fit, but have your wits about you all the time to do that.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: Core services gets us in the door.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's what people love about us, but the added value piece is like dessert.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if there's a most of the time doing core services carries the day.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: You saved their life, they were having a heart attack.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Their neck screwed up.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: You took precautions.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're not a paraplegic now.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you it you can't outperform that by baking somebody a cake.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's so doing the core services is the foundation for all of it.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing we talked about today, the the concrete example.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: Guy has a heart attack doing concrete.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they call a ladder truck, they finish the concrete.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: Took half an hour.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's purely added value right there.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: People say we shouldn't be finishing concrete.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: Save a dog.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: I heard this on one of the last workshops I went.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we is that priority traffic if you find a dog?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: I would do priority traffic of a dog ahead of a human, personally.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that's just me.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's wrong.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: I get it, but it is what it is.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you save a save a puppy and see what happens.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: If there's a picture of you saving a puppy, you will be on every media feed in the United States of America the next day.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: I always say we should carry throw-down puppies.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kittens and puppies.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: We get on the scene and we found.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I tell you a great idea that I used is that those added values instances.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_02: I carried that on in an apartment.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: And what I did is I had a signature on the green sheet.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_02: That the green sheet would go to the crew or the person that delivered the added value.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: I added a signature line on there for the city manager.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when I would see him every week, I would say, check out this.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: And he would sign off on these and have to acknowledge the nice stuff that firefighters did.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, because it's like, oh, so they they put out a bill, and that's your job.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: They put out the fire, that's your job.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: They say, Yeah, okay.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he started getting stacks of these.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: After a while, it's like I don't need to see theirs no more.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna keep doing it, but I'll take your line off, I'll take your name off there.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a mayor or somebody out there who's running for something who would love to put their signature on those added values.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_02: So just kind of use that too.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, exploit added value, and and then hopefully it becomes part of the core service.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do a timeless tactical truth.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: Timeless tactical truth from Alan Bernassini.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: Be careful of ignorance, convection, doing things that make us individually and collectively dumber.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you're an idiot and raise you an imbecile.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: Added value becomes core to the organization when it's part of it.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: So is being dumb.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, we we've got a correct course if we're you you and you see that in the less mature an individual is, the more they are susceptible to group stupidity, right?
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you hope that you hire traditions fallen victim to traditional nonsense.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's a exact that's a good example of that.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a 1910 go-getter.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we've all been guilty of that early in our career.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, without a doubt.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were raised by people patient.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll join in on that, but yeah, that's really why you need a supervisor in the room.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_02: You need an adult when that happens, and when sometimes the adult, the guy who's supposed to be the adult, he or she is leading the way for the stupidity, and that's when you get that's when you really figuring out strategies where I get the nozzle all the time.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: That that that's not you're you're not a good captain.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_02: When you when you have the engine company where the battalion chief is stationed responding to every call, regardless of where it is.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we talked about that.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, they're with me.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, you don't have a gang.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that there's times you oh, I wish I was your chief for a while, buddy.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: You yeah, but that's a good one.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't remember reading that one.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's the leadership, yeah.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's the role of leaders to keep that induction from happening.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's you you can't the thing I'm hearing in places is like, okay, we made these changes, and 90% of the workforce is embracing it.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: They love it.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But our problem, and we're really having issues dealing with this, are the 10% who aren't.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, those 10% are always there.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: They don't, uh-uh.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta quit listening to these knuckleheads.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, what you've done is you've taken your idiot and your imbecile, and now it's okay, I've got the minor.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's the problem with this country.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: A minority of people over here are very passionate about certain things, and you're like, no, that that it's it's not sustainable, it's not nice, it's stupid, it's imbecilic.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna do that anymore.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it that I mean, that's what leaders do.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they say sometimes it's the loneliest job there is is being the guy that says no, or the leader that says no.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, but we're not gonna do those things.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: We got to do a better job of teaching our leaders how to say no.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_02: And because they're all worried about, and I was like no is a pretty good way to start.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I mean, we're all worried about relationships and all that, and you want to keep your team together and you want to make sure that they, you know.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, and what I'm gonna say, Nick, is what you're saying.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, is at the end of the day, you gotta say no.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you gotta do your job.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Teach them the best way to say no, help them say support them when they say no.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Terry, we're talking about it.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, they gotta say no.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's better ways to say no than we had a guy that wouldn't that said no, bad-headed sheriff.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Every time he said no, he became the problem because of the way he said no.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't always wrong with his nose, but his interaction with everybody was so difficult that he became the problem.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we just got to get better at teaching people to say no.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully, this silverback leadership will do that.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's yeah, no one went to say no.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's no, we're not.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about the like the the inappropriate writer.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're not you're here to ride, but not in the conventional sentence.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're looking to do some other form of writing, and I'm going to go ahead and say no to that because that's gonna cause many, many sticky issues here that we don't need.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Quite possibly a divorce, quite possibly.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's yeah, it's just not the way that you're gonna do your business.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Here's that's not core service or added value.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a new no that we didn't have to deal with.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, turn off the TV.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: We're not watching that news or that news all day.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's an interesting no.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I never faced that as a fire captain.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I had other no's I had to face, but those are the new realities.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're not watching that because all it does is create stress, division.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, we're not watching the news.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's it.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was thinking about this other the other day, is I'm working in a fire station.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hundred years ago.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the company officer, and I've got an older engineer there who's got like twice as much time on as me.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we're doing whatever.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: We've worked together for a couple years.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody gets along great.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even know what we were doing, but we were sitting at the table and something was on the TV.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Jurassic Park was just coming out as a movie.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, Oh, that's interesting, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so we start talking about that.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Yeah, you know, dinosaurs are only 4,000 years old, Nick, they're not millions of years old.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, really?
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you tell me a little bit more about dinosaurs and paleontology?
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear about this.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what we ended up talking about, don't you?
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: The devil, and then you know, and I thought, you know, religion, I really like you, and you're an excellent engineer, and just, you know, a wonderful human being, and we ain't gonna talk about this anymore.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-uh.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him, I said, You got your beliefs, I got mine.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: We can watch something.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, and he got it.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, yeah, okay.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: We always got along better after that day.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: When you said, No, I'm not, I ain't gonna do this.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: To you or with you.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, because you don't want firefighters to come in as a group and assimilate and have the same mindset about everything.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: You want them to have the same morals and values about how you treat the customer and how you treat other firefighters, but you don't want everybody to look and act and everybody uh whatever that is.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: We were a diverse group of people that all came together.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: He gave great core services and excellent added value services.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: One day that some woman was it could have been the blind lady once she was found out that she wasn't seasoned and was expressing how sad she was.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he was very patient.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And when she's she was done, he says, Ma'am, I'm so sorry we do not have a pill for that.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you could you should run a church or something.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: You really should.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you you have a skill set that needs to be exploited more.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, guys, for today.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great discussion.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Good to get back together.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, thank you everyone for listening to the B Shifter podcast.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk to you again soon.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, indeed.