Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 28-year-old spoiled brat dismembers parents when the money stops

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28-year-old spoiled brat dismembers parents when the money stops · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Everybody looks forward to Thanksgiving.
0:13
Speaker 1: I know we do, and I do the whole nine yards,
0:16
Speaker 1: the turkey, that dressing, the cranberry sauce, the sauteed green beans.
0:21
Speaker 1: I invite everybody over and we have the happiest time.
0:26
Speaker 1: And I want those memories for my children, John, David
0:29
Speaker 1: and Lucy. How can something so wonderful for so many
0:34
Speaker 1: Americans go so wrong? How wrong? Well, let's just say
0:42
Speaker 1: mom and Dad get murdered and Mommy's head gets severed
0:46
Speaker 1: and ends up boiling in a pot on the stove.
0:50
Speaker 1: How much more wrong can it go? How did it
1:01
Speaker 1: all go wrong? Take a listen to our friend at
1:04
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com, Dave Mac. Joel Guys Senior and
1:08
Speaker 1: Lisa Guy were preparing to enjoy their retirement in just
1:11
Speaker 1: two weeks. The pair were planning to move from Knoxville, Tennessee,
1:14
Speaker 1: to Joel guys hometown of Sir Gowansville, about seventy seven
1:17
Speaker 1: miles northeast of Knoxville. Guy had recently bought the home
1:20
Speaker 1: of his deceased mother. The Thanksgiving holiday was just ahead,
1:24
Speaker 1: and plans were in the works for a major family
1:26
Speaker 1: gathering for Christmas. But after the Thanksgiving holiday, when Lisa
1:30
Speaker 1: Guy didn't show back up at work, her co workers
1:33
Speaker 1: were worried. They tried calling, they didn't get her, so
1:36
Speaker 1: they asked police to do a welfare check. That's how
1:38
Speaker 1: it all started. You were just listening to Dave matt
1:41
Speaker 1: our friend from crime online dot com, but with me
1:43
Speaker 1: an all star panel, and you know them well. First
1:48
Speaker 1: of all, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags
1:52
Speaker 1: and host of a Brandy program Live with Doctor Wendy
1:56
Speaker 1: on k c b Q Radio, is at Wendy Patrick
2:01
Speaker 1: PhD dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
2:06
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at
2:09
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. Stephen Lampley, detective author of
2:14
Speaker 1: upcoming book Twelve and Murder on Amazon at Stephen Lampley
2:19
Speaker 1: dot com. We often speak to medical examiners for various jurisdictions,
2:25
Speaker 1: but how often is there one guy, one doctor in
2:30
Speaker 1: charge of an entire state with us. The medical examiner
2:35
Speaker 1: for the state of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher at mathkpathcaremd
2:41
Speaker 1: dot com. But first a special guest joining us. It's
2:44
Speaker 1: Yvonne Thomas out of WBI R ten News in Knoxville. Yvonne,
2:49
Speaker 1: it's so great to have you with us. I wish
2:52
Speaker 1: we were meeting under better circumstances. But when I hear
2:55
Speaker 1: double murder, I got to know all the facts. Tell me.
2:58
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm imagining myself going to a crime scene,
3:04
Speaker 1: and I take it all in. At every red light,
3:07
Speaker 1: I look around, at every turn, I check it out.
3:10
Speaker 1: I see the grocery stores, I see the buildings, I
3:14
Speaker 1: see if anybody's running up to me at the corner
3:17
Speaker 1: trying to sell me crack cocaine. Tell me about this area,
3:22
Speaker 1: because everything I found out that this was what do
3:25
Speaker 1: we say, West Knoxville, Jack West Knoxville where all the
3:29
Speaker 1: rich people live, which means low crime, probably because they
3:33
Speaker 1: have all these private security guards rolling around. But tell
3:37
Speaker 1: me about the area, Evan Thomas, Fancy, you're absolutely correct.
3:42
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine this a beautiful, nice neighborhood. Golden View
3:46
Speaker 1: Lane is where the home sat, where the crime did
3:49
Speaker 1: take place, but a neighborhood where you could freely walk
3:52
Speaker 1: your dogs. You knew your neighbors, and can you imagine
3:56
Speaker 1: them coming to this area where crime really just does it?
3:59
Speaker 1: Happen very often, and neighbors look outside, they see caution
4:04
Speaker 1: tape everywhere, they see police, they see detectives wearing has
4:08
Speaker 1: Matt gear going into that home. It was undescribable, unfathomable
4:13
Speaker 1: for many of those that were watching this and trying
4:15
Speaker 1: to figure out what in the world was going on.
4:18
Speaker 1: Evan Thomas, you just got my attention when you said
4:21
Speaker 1: has Matt gear. Guys, this is a beautiful area of Knoxville.
4:26
Speaker 1: First time I went to Knoxville, Jackie was for the
4:29
Speaker 1: World's Fair and it was incredible. I think I was
4:35
Speaker 1: in law school at the time and took a weekend
4:37
Speaker 1: and went to Knoxville. Beautiful. People go there because the
4:42
Speaker 1: leaves change up in the Tennessee Mountains and it's beautiful, scenic,
4:47
Speaker 1: and this would be, I guess, the most beautiful area
4:52
Speaker 1: of a beautiful area. You don't expect to see crime
4:57
Speaker 1: scene tape wrapped around one of the mansions and people
4:59
Speaker 1: go going in and out with hazmat suits. But happy Thanksgiving,
5:05
Speaker 1: that's what that's all about. Guys. Take a listen to this.
5:09
Speaker 1: Guy Junior spent Thanksgiving twenty sixteen with his family. It
5:13
Speaker 1: was typical. Guy Junior spent a quote smattering of holidays
5:17
Speaker 1: in this very house. This was his home when Lisa
5:21
Speaker 1: didn't show up for work after the holiday or co
5:24
Speaker 1: workers were worried. You know, it's my understanding to you,
5:27
Speaker 1: Yvonne Thomas w B I R. That the son Joel
5:33
Speaker 1: Guy Junior, age thirty two, studying to be a plastic surgeon,
5:37
Speaker 1: he says, and his two or three sisters all came
5:42
Speaker 1: home and this was to be their last Thanksgiving and
5:45
Speaker 1: the family home the family mansion because mom and dad,
5:49
Speaker 1: Lisa and Joel Guy, we're getting ready to retire. It's
5:53
Speaker 1: my understanding. They were both engineers, they had wrote their
5:55
Speaker 1: whole lives and they were finally retired ring and they
6:00
Speaker 1: had bought Joel Guy's mother's home. She was deceased, so
6:07
Speaker 1: they bought out their interest in the home. Everybody's interested,
6:09
Speaker 1: and we're moving there and unloading demansion. So this would
6:13
Speaker 1: have been the last Thanksgiving, and everybody gathers together at
6:17
Speaker 1: the old home place for Thanksgiving. Do I have it
6:19
Speaker 1: right so far? Yes? And picture this the last Thanksgiving
6:23
Speaker 1: in that home. They took a family photo that day
6:27
Speaker 1: to commemorate there where the grandchildren are in the photo.
6:31
Speaker 1: Joel Guys Senior, Lisa, Joel Guy Junior were all in
6:35
Speaker 1: that last family photo at that home. But yes, they
6:39
Speaker 1: were preparing to retire. Joel Guys Senior and his wife
6:43
Speaker 1: Lisa had already purchased that home in Sigloingsville, and so
6:46
Speaker 1: they were ready to make that move. You know, I'm
6:49
Speaker 1: just thinking about that. I've got to see that Van
6:53
Speaker 1: Thomas w bi R. You gotta send me that picture.
6:56
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that last family photo with every rebody
7:00
Speaker 1: in it. And you know, to doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists
7:05
Speaker 1: joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, I hope that
7:09
Speaker 1: my children, John, David and Lucy go to college locally
7:14
Speaker 1: because I want to be with them. I don't want
7:16
Speaker 1: them to go away. Of course, if they want to
7:18
Speaker 1: go away, fine, I'm not gonna say anything. Yeah, but
7:21
Speaker 1: will yeah, Okay, you're right, I've already been saying what
7:24
Speaker 1: about this? What about that? You know, just first of all,
7:26
Speaker 1: I've got to get them through middle school. That's my
7:28
Speaker 1: goal right now. Let me tell you, math and science
7:30
Speaker 1: are a challenge. But the only reason I hope you're
7:34
Speaker 1: sitting down you may need to lay down for this
7:36
Speaker 1: one doctor Angie. The only reason. Correct me if I'm wrong,
7:40
Speaker 1: Yvonne Thomas, don't be afraid. The only reason Lisa Guy
7:44
Speaker 1: kept working is to support her son, Joel Guy Junior. Now,
7:53
Speaker 1: this guy is twenty eight at the time, have been
7:56
Speaker 1: going to college at LSU for about a decade. He
8:03
Speaker 1: says he's working. He's studying to become a plastic surgeon.
8:07
Speaker 1: I've looked him, looked and looked. I don't see that
8:10
Speaker 1: he's in med school. I think he's ten years to
8:14
Speaker 1: get through his undergrad Not judging, it took my brother.
8:17
Speaker 1: I think how many six or seven years. He'd take
8:20
Speaker 1: off a quarter and he'd work, then he go back,
8:23
Speaker 1: then he go back, blah blah blah blah. He finally finished.
8:25
Speaker 1: So not judging, it could be any number of things
8:28
Speaker 1: the reasons why, but he was the only reason she
8:33
Speaker 1: kept working to support him. For all. From what I
8:37
Speaker 1: can tell, he's never held down a job. He's twenty eight,
8:42
Speaker 1: almost twenty nine. What human being is okay with that? Nancy,
8:47
Speaker 1: I don't know. When I moved out, I never asked
8:50
Speaker 1: my parents for another penny. Oh when I bought my
8:54
Speaker 1: first house, I asked them. They offered to give me
8:57
Speaker 1: down payment and I paid him back pronto. But twenty
9:01
Speaker 1: almost twenty nine years old, never down a job. What
9:08
Speaker 1: is that? Well, he certainly was enjoying. I mean, I
9:13
Speaker 1: think it's lazy. I think that he doesn't have any
9:16
Speaker 1: drive inside of him, and he had become very accustomed
9:20
Speaker 1: to us. I wish that I knew some other things
9:23
Speaker 1: about about his past and how he lived and how
9:28
Speaker 1: he was taken care of. But they are just aiding
9:31
Speaker 1: and abetting some very ya hold on about blaming. Thus,
9:35
Speaker 1: I blamed the victimhen the dad wasn't supporting him. Crime
9:46
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the
9:52
Speaker 1: deaths of a mom and dad. How the whole thing happened.
9:58
Speaker 1: At Thanksgiving, the whole whole family gathers in this beautiful mansion.
10:02
Speaker 1: They do the turkey, they do the dressing, the cranberry sauce,
10:05
Speaker 1: a whole nine yards, the family photo, and then the
10:09
Speaker 1: following Monday morning, Lisa, the mom doesn't show up for work.
10:15
Speaker 1: Now correct me if I'm wrong, Yvonne Thomas w bir
10:19
Speaker 1: But didn't we just say that inning to retire, sell
10:23
Speaker 1: the house and move to the mother in law's house.
10:26
Speaker 1: They were retiring. Right, they were finally quitting work. That
10:30
Speaker 1: was the plan, right, Yvon, Yes, absolutely, that was the plan,
10:34
Speaker 1: so much so that this was Lisa Guy's last week
10:38
Speaker 1: of work. She was retiring. Joelkay Senior was already retired,
10:42
Speaker 1: but this was the last week of work, and she
10:45
Speaker 1: had been hanging in there to support the adult son,
10:49
Speaker 1: who had never done a liquor work. Their retirement and
10:54
Speaker 1: their move to a smaller home was not to be remember,
11:00
Speaker 1: her boss Jennifer, new something was up when Lisa didn't
11:05
Speaker 1: show up for work, and after multiple calls to Lisa's
11:08
Speaker 1: home and sail with no answer, she had police go
11:11
Speaker 1: do a welfare check, which they did. Take a listen
11:14
Speaker 1: to our friend Madison kvat WAT TV. Before he's even
11:21
Speaker 1: inside the house, Detective Jeremy McCord is on guard. The
11:25
Speaker 1: door was warm. There was some kind of strange odor
11:28
Speaker 1: that I observed. I don't I don't know if I
11:31
Speaker 1: verbalized it. I know that was more or less just
11:34
Speaker 1: a feeling, sensation of feeling very odd or something ominous
11:38
Speaker 1: about it. There were vehicles in the driveway. Nobody was
11:40
Speaker 1: answering the door, and it was an odd situation. The
11:45
Speaker 1: door in the garage opens, they announced themselves, we're here
11:52
Speaker 1: with heat, We're here and again with this strange odor.
11:57
Speaker 1: There is a pot on the stove, a large pot
12:01
Speaker 1: that you can tell that the stove is on the stove,
12:05
Speaker 1: talk in the oven or on because of all the
12:08
Speaker 1: heat coming from that area, and it's it's it's very odd.
12:14
Speaker 1: You're hearing Knox County Sheriff's Detective Jerry Jerry mc chord
12:19
Speaker 1: describing coming up to the guy home and it was
12:24
Speaker 1: incredibly hot and there was a very odd smell that
12:28
Speaker 1: he couldn't identify. To doctor Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner
12:32
Speaker 1: for the entire state of Florida. Doctor Gallagher's, it's wonderful
12:36
Speaker 1: to talk to you as always, although we somehow always
12:39
Speaker 1: end up talking about dead people. Doctor Gallagher, you know,
12:42
Speaker 1: I've told people before when you smell a dead human body,
12:48
Speaker 1: you never you know what it is instinctively, Well, what
12:52
Speaker 1: is that? What makes the human body different in death? Well,
12:55
Speaker 1: you know you're correct about that. Nancy's a smell that
12:57
Speaker 1: you'll never forget. And as a matter of fact, when
13:00
Speaker 1: I did my tours through the high schools, I would
13:03
Speaker 1: bring them to the decomposition room and have them smell,
13:06
Speaker 1: the actual scent of a decomposing body, and it's something
13:10
Speaker 1: that stays with them for years and years. You know.
13:13
Speaker 1: I remember going to multiple homicide scenes and actually having
13:18
Speaker 1: rookie cops I see them start vomiting. I mean, not
13:22
Speaker 1: the site, they hadn't even seen the site yet, but
13:25
Speaker 1: the smell of decom Now what's interesting here is you've
13:28
Speaker 1: got a seasoned detective Jeremy McCord. This is not his
13:33
Speaker 1: first time at the rodeo, but he cannot identify the smell.
13:38
Speaker 1: And I know a season detective. I mean, when you
13:41
Speaker 1: get to detective Stephen Lampley, you're a PI. But long
13:46
Speaker 1: story short, you have to be a beat cop and
13:50
Speaker 1: then you you work your way up through the ranks
13:54
Speaker 1: of police or sheriff before you become a detective. Isn't
13:58
Speaker 1: that right, Stephen Nancy. Yes, you have to spend your
14:01
Speaker 1: time on the street, which by department varies. In my case,
14:05
Speaker 1: it was three years before you could be promoted to
14:07
Speaker 1: really anything beyond a street officer at that you know,
14:11
Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, so this guy's already a detective,
14:13
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure he's seen his share of dead bodies.
14:16
Speaker 1: But he says it's an unusual, odd smell that he
14:19
Speaker 1: couldn't yet identify. So what is it? What more do
14:24
Speaker 1: we know? Take a listen again to our friend Madison
14:27
Speaker 1: kiv at wat ETV six, I get in front of
14:32
Speaker 1: everybody and start clearing the stairwell to try and get
14:36
Speaker 1: an eyeball of what's above us. McCord says, there are
14:40
Speaker 1: signs things aren't right. During this time, there's a dog
14:44
Speaker 1: that's barking, and the dog will bark and bark and bark,
14:49
Speaker 1: and then the dog stops barking. That was odd to me.
14:52
Speaker 1: Most dogs, when they bark and you're in their territory,
14:54
Speaker 1: they continue barking walking through this house, something he says
14:58
Speaker 1: he'll always remember. It's terrifying because you don't know if
15:01
Speaker 1: somebody needs some help. I mean, it's just an odd situation.
15:04
Speaker 1: There's nothing downstairs that I'm observing that makes sense to me.
15:11
Speaker 1: To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author Red Flags and host
15:15
Speaker 1: of Live with Doctor Wendy CASEYBQ. You know, Wendy, I've
15:19
Speaker 1: heard it a million times and I felt it myself
15:21
Speaker 1: on multiple crime scenes and in other places. You get
15:24
Speaker 1: a feeling this cop sees his detective sees cars, cars
15:30
Speaker 1: part in the driveway, but nobody comes into the door.
15:34
Speaker 1: He hears a dog howling and barking plaintively, but then
15:39
Speaker 1: stops and starts again. The place is burning up hot,
15:42
Speaker 1: the stove is on, the oven is on, the heat
15:44
Speaker 1: is on. Something is very wrong, but he doesn't know
15:50
Speaker 1: what it is yet. Have you ever gotten that feeling
15:52
Speaker 1: on a crime saying, Wendy, you know, isn't that the truth? Nancy?
15:55
Speaker 1: Because we sell ourselves short with respect to all the
15:58
Speaker 1: different experiences into the scene. You know, we come in
16:02
Speaker 1: already trained by virtue of all the cases, we've already done,
16:06
Speaker 1: all the things we've already read and heard about, and
16:08
Speaker 1: having been a life for as many years as we
16:10
Speaker 1: have that we can tell when something's wrong instinctively. Even Nancy,
16:14
Speaker 1: if we can't put our finger on exactly why we
16:16
Speaker 1: have the feelings we do, we can imagine how much
16:19
Speaker 1: more significant that is the number of years a train
16:21
Speaker 1: detect was found the police force. So that's absolutely right.
16:24
Speaker 1: Somebody comes in and smells and hears and perceives all
16:27
Speaker 1: the different types of things that lead them to the
16:29
Speaker 1: conclusion that something terrible happened here. Now I got to
16:32
Speaker 1: find out what it is. I think of our minds
16:35
Speaker 1: like a computer or a giant computer, and we walk
16:39
Speaker 1: into a crime scene and we are processing so many
16:44
Speaker 1: clues at once that our mind may not embrace what
16:49
Speaker 1: all we're processing. Listen, missus. Guy's head was found in
16:55
Speaker 1: a large pot in liquid in the kitchen. The liquid
17:01
Speaker 1: in the pot had a slightly different character to it
17:04
Speaker 1: than the liquid in the plastic tubs. It didn't have
17:09
Speaker 1: the strong chemical odor. It had a slight odor of decomposition,
17:12
Speaker 1: but it did not have the chemical odor like the
17:14
Speaker 1: bins upstairs did. And the skin that remained, the skin
17:18
Speaker 1: and flesh that remained on her scalt was different. It
17:22
Speaker 1: did not have the contact. In other words, the skin
17:30
Speaker 1: looked like it had heat artifact or what we call
17:32
Speaker 1: thermal artifact, as opposed to a chemical artifact. The hair
17:37
Speaker 1: was still there as well, Doctor Tim Gallagher, we need
17:40
Speaker 1: you now more than ever, our medical examiner. State of flora,
17:44
Speaker 1: thermal artifact versus chemical artifact. I think I know what
17:48
Speaker 1: that means, But explain it to me in regular people
17:51
Speaker 1: talk place. Well, thermal artifact is a burn. So when
17:54
Speaker 1: you're exposed to heat, flame, etc. You know it is
17:57
Speaker 1: an actual burn created by heat, whereas a chemical artifact
18:02
Speaker 1: is also considered to be a burn, but it's more
18:06
Speaker 1: of a dissolving type, softening burn, whereas the heat artifact
18:11
Speaker 1: is a leather like or very firm texture to the
18:15
Speaker 1: skin that occurs after it's been exposed to radiating heat.
18:20
Speaker 1: Tell me that one more time. One is leather like that? Well,
18:24
Speaker 1: if you're right, the skin will take on a leather
18:28
Speaker 1: like to assistency or will feel like leather if the
18:32
Speaker 1: body is exposed to fire or that or a fire
18:35
Speaker 1: heat source. So that would be a thermal artifact, and
18:40
Speaker 1: then a chemical artifact or a chemical defect would be
18:44
Speaker 1: one where the skin is being dissolved, dissolved by the
18:49
Speaker 1: chemical whatever. That chemical may be acid or alkali or
18:53
Speaker 1: something to that effect. Climbed stories with Nancy Grace. This
19:10
Speaker 1: mother Lacy Guy's head severed heads in a pot on
19:16
Speaker 1: the stove cooking. That's what we're talking about. Let's take
19:24
Speaker 1: a listen to doctor Amy Hawes, the medical examiner. Take
19:29
Speaker 1: a listen. Like mister Guy, Missus Guy was also dismembered.
19:34
Speaker 1: There was some differences in the degree to which she
19:38
Speaker 1: was dismembered in the way she was dismembered. Her head
19:41
Speaker 1: was completely severed from her body. Her arms were disarticulated
19:47
Speaker 1: at the shoulders, and her legs were disarticulated at the knees.
19:52
Speaker 1: So in comparison and mister Guy who had his legs
19:54
Speaker 1: disarticulate the hips, missus guys legs were at the knee,
20:01
Speaker 1: so her thighs were still untact. Her thighs were still
20:03
Speaker 1: attached onto her body, but her head was completely severed
20:06
Speaker 1: and her arms were completely severed, much like mister Guy.
20:10
Speaker 1: The skin of her bat was still relatively well preserved
20:15
Speaker 1: compared to her front where there was almost no skin left.
20:20
Speaker 1: And just thinking about this woman as a personal Lisa Guy.
20:25
Speaker 1: She worked her whole life as an engineer, had two
20:30
Speaker 1: girls and a boy, raised them, was married to one
20:35
Speaker 1: person her whole life, and just as she is set
20:40
Speaker 1: to finally stop working and enjoy the rest of her life, well,
20:46
Speaker 1: there's no nice way to put it, her head ends
20:49
Speaker 1: up in a stew pot on the stove. But what
20:52
Speaker 1: about her husband? Listen to doctor Amy Hawes. The first
20:57
Speaker 1: thing to note with mister Guy is his remains had
21:02
Speaker 1: been dismembered. The arms had been removed at the shoulders,
21:06
Speaker 1: The legs had been removed at the hips. His head
21:10
Speaker 1: was completely skeletonized, and there was some area of defect
21:17
Speaker 1: of the bone of the forehead. The bone in that
21:22
Speaker 1: area was in such poor condition that it was impossible
21:27
Speaker 1: to tell whether that was from the chemicals in which
21:30
Speaker 1: the skull had been or whether it was from blunt trauma.
21:36
Speaker 1: There was skin remaining primarily on the back of mister Guy,
21:43
Speaker 1: approximately from his lower neck around his buttocks, and the
21:48
Speaker 1: remainder of the skin was gone. The remainder of the
21:51
Speaker 1: skin had been dissolved by chemicals, and with the skin
21:54
Speaker 1: being gone, it basically exposed bare muscle. Is it the
22:00
Speaker 1: work of a madman? Or is it highly planned someone
22:08
Speaker 1: that is in complete control of all their faculties. Listen
22:13
Speaker 1: to what else we learn about the body of the
22:18
Speaker 1: Dad Joel Guy Senior. On the skin of his back,
22:22
Speaker 1: he had what I identified as thirty four sharp force injuries.
22:28
Speaker 1: And sharp force injuries are either stabs or cuts. These
22:33
Speaker 1: sharp force injuries again extended from up near about the
22:38
Speaker 1: area of his shoulder down to his buttocks. They were
22:41
Speaker 1: on both sides. The wounds ranged from about one inches
22:47
Speaker 1: in length to about seven inches in length. And the
22:51
Speaker 1: maximum depth was about six inches. Associated with these stab wounds,
22:56
Speaker 1: I identified injuries to the liver, lungs, and kidneys and ribs. Again,
23:06
Speaker 1: there likely was more because of the dismemberment process. It
23:11
Speaker 1: was some of the cuts. It was difficult to tell
23:14
Speaker 1: if it was part of the dismemberment process or actually
23:17
Speaker 1: a sharp force injury that occurred while mister Guy was
23:19
Speaker 1: still alive. She mentioned thirty four sharp force injuries to
23:24
Speaker 1: mister guys back. He had a total of forty two
23:27
Speaker 1: stab wounds to his body and his wife suffered thirty
23:32
Speaker 1: one stab wounds to her body. The work of a madman,
23:38
Speaker 1: someone insane or was it highly planned? First two you
23:44
Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher, Medical Exam LA joining us out of
23:46
Speaker 1: the state of Florida. Many of us have seen Dexter
23:50
Speaker 1: and other similar shows on television or cable where it
23:56
Speaker 1: seems like a piece of k to dismember some one.
24:00
Speaker 1: It's not that easy, Gallagher, not at all, explain, Oh,
24:05
Speaker 1: certainly not. You know, this is a process that will
24:08
Speaker 1: take someone who's uninitiated hours and hours to do, even
24:11
Speaker 1: if they know where to cut, even if they know
24:13
Speaker 1: where to cut through the joint. Instead of cutting it
24:16
Speaker 1: through the bone, especially if you're using handheld instruments, you know,
24:22
Speaker 1: as opposed to an electric saw or something like that.
24:25
Speaker 1: But this is a process that takes quite a long
24:27
Speaker 1: time and expends quite a bit of energy. To Yvonne Thomas,
24:31
Speaker 1: w BI R. Ten Knees and knoxful, of course, the
24:34
Speaker 1: killer had not finished cleaning up the same because it's
24:38
Speaker 1: my understanding when law enforcement goes in they find a
24:42
Speaker 1: severed hand in the upstairs exercise room just lying there.
24:46
Speaker 1: They absolutely did, And how terrifying can you imagine that?
24:51
Speaker 1: Being sea hands not attached to a body in a
24:54
Speaker 1: room surrounded by blood, bloods bladder, pull the blood on
24:58
Speaker 1: the carpet, just trying to take that in. And of course,
25:01
Speaker 1: as law enforcement goes in, they don't know if the
25:04
Speaker 1: killer is still in the home. You hear a dog
25:07
Speaker 1: barking at in the distance and have no idea what
25:11
Speaker 1: you're walking into, and you see a severed hand in
25:15
Speaker 1: the exercise room and a head and nick boiling on
25:23
Speaker 1: the stove. It's almost incomprehensible to us talking. You know,
25:30
Speaker 1: we're looking at it as trained analyzer's effect. That's what
25:37
Speaker 1: all of us on the panel do, where lawyers were prosecutors,
25:41
Speaker 1: were a medical examiner, a psychiatrist, a detective. But I
25:46
Speaker 1: wonder how this strikes a lay person. Now it's been
25:52
Speaker 1: argued that whoever did the deed must be insane. But
25:59
Speaker 1: what about out a notebook a notebook that is found
26:04
Speaker 1: in a backpack in the back bedroom of the home.
26:09
Speaker 1: Listen to Leslie Naseos, flush shunks down toilet, not garbage disposal.
26:19
Speaker 1: No evidence, ladies and gentlemen, that that he did that.
26:24
Speaker 1: But the next line, get plastic sheeting for disposal process.
26:27
Speaker 1: There is evidence that there was a plastic sheeting at
26:30
Speaker 1: the scene on the bed where Joel and Lisa Guy slipped.
26:37
Speaker 1: Get hollow point bullets just in case will be seen
26:40
Speaker 1: buying bullets. Just use computer room gun check to make
26:44
Speaker 1: sure there are bullets. Last resort, there were no gun
26:49
Speaker 1: shot wounds to the victims. He's not alive to claim
26:57
Speaker 1: her half of the insurance money all mine five hundred
27:01
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. What more do we know in that notebook
27:05
Speaker 1: full of detailed instructions about how to commit the double martyr.
27:10
Speaker 1: Listen again to Leslie Nauseas, bring blender and food grinder,
27:16
Speaker 1: grind meat. Well, we will not show you that he
27:19
Speaker 1: did grind any meat. But we will show you that
27:21
Speaker 1: he brought a blender and that in his vehicle that
27:25
Speaker 1: was searched after his arrest in Baton Rouge. He did
27:27
Speaker 1: have a food processor in the trunk. Get a bleach
27:36
Speaker 1: d nature proteins while there was bleach, several tubs of
27:40
Speaker 1: bleach in the kitchen. Get plastic ben for d naturation process.
27:47
Speaker 1: And I guess that's that means for dissolving your parents.
27:54
Speaker 1: Does not matter where they're killed. Just get rid of
27:57
Speaker 1: bloody spots to prevent at some time of death, not
28:02
Speaker 1: the mattress or couches. Get rid of bodies inside the house.
28:10
Speaker 1: There in my DNA already there crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
28:27
Speaker 1: we are talking about the death and dismemberment of two
28:32
Speaker 1: wonderful people, loving parents, grandparents Lisa Guy and Joel Guy Senior,
28:38
Speaker 1: set to retire, leave their jobs, start a new life together.
28:43
Speaker 1: There was only one fly in the ointment. Lisa had
28:46
Speaker 1: been supporting her grown son, who had spent nine years
28:50
Speaker 1: at LSU, never held out a job and still didn't
28:53
Speaker 1: have a degree. That was the only reason she had
28:57
Speaker 1: kept working. What more, does a notebook reveal that was
29:01
Speaker 1: found in a back bedroom in a backpack. Listen, it's
29:05
Speaker 1: on a notebook, and in a notebook there was a
29:13
Speaker 1: writing and I want to go through it with you
29:17
Speaker 1: a little bit because so it's kind of hard to
29:19
Speaker 1: see like this, but we'll start from the first line.
29:25
Speaker 1: Get a killing knife, quiet multiple get a carving knife
29:32
Speaker 1: to make small pieces, get sledgehammer, crush bones, and of
29:40
Speaker 1: course there were multiple knives found at the scene. You
29:43
Speaker 1: will hear there was a knife in the guest bathroom,
29:46
Speaker 1: a knife in the sink in the master bathroom. The
29:49
Speaker 1: crime scene horrific. The crime scene text having to wear
29:54
Speaker 1: hazmatt outfits back to our friend Yvan Thomas W B
29:59
Speaker 1: I R ten n when police come into the mansion
30:03
Speaker 1: and they very quickly see two blue tote tubs full
30:08
Speaker 1: of chemicals. What else are in the tubs full of chemicals?
30:14
Speaker 1: And body parts of Lisa Guy and Joel Guys senior.
30:20
Speaker 1: Even a torso was found in one of those bins.
30:24
Speaker 1: What can you tell me, Yvonne Thomas W B I
30:26
Speaker 1: R about the mother or Lisa Guys cell phone set
30:32
Speaker 1: to send a text or a phone call a few
30:35
Speaker 1: days later, such as on Sunday or Monday. Yes, the
30:38
Speaker 1: phone was set to send a text message, phone call
30:42
Speaker 1: or so to her son Joel Guy Junior, who by
30:46
Speaker 1: that time was in Baton Rouge. Yes, it's all fitting
30:50
Speaker 1: together for me because he is there over Thanksgiving weekend.
30:56
Speaker 1: He is about to be cut off financially. The mom
31:00
Speaker 1: is finally quitting work. He's gonna have to fend for himself.
31:04
Speaker 1: Someone sets mom's phone to text him or call him
31:09
Speaker 1: in Baton Rouge, thereby Stephen Lampley, detective and author, setting
31:15
Speaker 1: up an alibi for him in Baton Rouge. When he
31:19
Speaker 1: picks that phone up right, let's cootinancy. But unfortunately, apparently
31:23
Speaker 1: he's not smart enough to know that that can all
31:27
Speaker 1: be traced back and figured out. I guess his intent
31:31
Speaker 1: was to commit the perfect crime, but he wasn't smart
31:33
Speaker 1: enough to do that. If that was him that did this,
31:36
Speaker 1: they committed the crime himself. And another note that I
31:39
Speaker 1: noticed when they were reading off the notebook that he
31:44
Speaker 1: said in his writings it says that my and their
31:50
Speaker 1: DNA is already. This perpetrator's DNA be on the scene already,
31:57
Speaker 1: So that tells me that this is somebody in the
32:00
Speaker 1: family or a friend of the family who has been
32:02
Speaker 1: at this home before you know it, tells me to
32:05
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of red Flags. Timing is everything.
32:11
Speaker 1: I believe that the son, Joel Guy Junior, thirty two
32:15
Speaker 1: years old, had planned to be in Baton Rouge to
32:18
Speaker 1: pick the phone up. Have you a fake conversation with
32:22
Speaker 1: his mother who's dead. Then go back to the scene.
32:28
Speaker 1: See he's in Baton Rouge as seen as in Knoxville.
32:31
Speaker 1: Retrieve his notebook, finished cleaning up the scene because in
32:35
Speaker 1: the list of things to do it said to take
32:40
Speaker 1: his mom's nails and scratch his dad's arm to get
32:46
Speaker 1: dad's DNA under her fingernails. So clearly he was setting
32:52
Speaker 1: up the scene. What he didn't count on, I think, Wendy,
32:55
Speaker 1: is that the security, the welfare check would happen before
32:59
Speaker 1: he could get back to get that notebook. That's what
33:02
Speaker 1: I think happened, Wendy. His timing was off. Yeah, no,
33:05
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. You know, in this kind of a community,
33:08
Speaker 1: they were very vigilant learning when somebody was missing, Being concerned,
33:12
Speaker 1: and a timeline in and of itself sometimes is the
33:15
Speaker 1: deciding factor for a jury being able to put everything
33:18
Speaker 1: in a line and see somebody's mental processes as they
33:21
Speaker 1: go through. And here this homicide journal, as with other cases,
33:25
Speaker 1: no book speaks, volumes. These silent pieces of evidence detail
33:29
Speaker 1: exactly what somebody's going to do. And in this case
33:33
Speaker 1: it was accurate, it was corroborated, and it was consistent.
33:37
Speaker 1: And those things together are very important at this particular
33:39
Speaker 1: crime scene, you know, to doctor Angie Arnold, Doctor Angie
33:43
Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley pointed out that the notebook said, my DNA's
33:47
Speaker 1: already here, but and he's correct, giving away who the
33:52
Speaker 1: purp is. But it also says even further identifying who
33:57
Speaker 1: else's DNA's there. But who else was going to benefit?
34:01
Speaker 1: It says assets, and it lays out the mom's assets
34:06
Speaker 1: and the dad's assets. The mom had a five hundred
34:09
Speaker 1: thousand dollar life insurance policy. And it says it'll all
34:15
Speaker 1: it'll be all mine his words, not mine, it will
34:19
Speaker 1: be all mine with dad dead or missing. So who's
34:26
Speaker 1: the beneficiary. The son Joel Guy Junior, and he was
34:30
Speaker 1: quite the planner too, wasn't me? Yeah? What is that?
34:33
Speaker 1: I mean? You remember in the Robert Blake case, Blake
34:36
Speaker 1: and his henchman had these long, detailed lists. Gotta get lie,
34:40
Speaker 1: gotta get tarts, gotta get this hammer, shovel, everything a
34:45
Speaker 1: killer needs. Somehow they managed to explain it away to
34:47
Speaker 1: a gullible California jury. Sorry Wendy Patrick, but I mean
34:52
Speaker 1: there's a certain thing. There's something to be said about
34:54
Speaker 1: overplanning when you're making this meticulous list of murder to
34:59
Speaker 1: dus Well and also, Nancy, have you thought about that
35:03
Speaker 1: it might have even been giving him some sick Oh,
35:09
Speaker 1: I see we've got another guest joining us at the
35:11
Speaker 1: K nine giving him You know, I don't mind if
35:18
Speaker 1: we appeal to the K nine listeners in viewership, Doctor
35:22
Speaker 1: Angel Arnold, I think you were about to say making
35:25
Speaker 1: the list like when I take the children on, say
35:28
Speaker 1: our RV trips or our camping trips. I make exhaustive
35:31
Speaker 1: lists because I don't want to be out in the
35:33
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere and not have what we need. But
35:35
Speaker 1: I also enjoy planning it. Well, you know, Nancy, I
35:38
Speaker 1: think I mean this, and I don't believe this is
35:41
Speaker 1: too far out there. I think this guy could have
35:45
Speaker 1: been getting some sort of sick pleasure out of making
35:49
Speaker 1: the lists and thinking, of thinking and brooding and plotting
35:55
Speaker 1: about what it was going to feel like when he
35:57
Speaker 1: was doing thus when he was actually following it through
36:01
Speaker 1: with everything. I made the very tenuous analogy to planning
36:06
Speaker 1: an RV trip, how you enjoy making your list and
36:10
Speaker 1: planning what you're going to do. I think you're right,
36:13
Speaker 1: doctor Angie. I think he enjoyed making this list because
36:16
Speaker 1: I've actually looked at list and it is like single
36:19
Speaker 1: spaced pages and pages and pages. Am I right? Yvon Thomas? Absolutely,
36:24
Speaker 1: this was not just a frontened back list like you
36:27
Speaker 1: make to go to the grocery store. This was details
36:30
Speaker 1: of pages on pages of things that someone had to
36:34
Speaker 1: do to get those so that this murder could actually happen.
36:39
Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, I know you go through all these
36:42
Speaker 1: procedures and you're strictly by the book when you perform
36:44
Speaker 1: an autopsy. This guy totally dismembered two bodies, and do
36:49
Speaker 1: you know what? Do you know that the Dad's limbs
36:52
Speaker 1: were almost skeletonized. He had had the body part soaking
36:57
Speaker 1: in chemicals. His evil was actually working. Gallagher, Well, it
37:02
Speaker 1: could be true. I mean, depending on what he was
37:05
Speaker 1: soaking them in, the bones could have over the course
37:10
Speaker 1: of time. And we're talking about a year and a half,
37:12
Speaker 1: maybe two years, but totally liquefied, and there would be
37:16
Speaker 1: very little evidence left to ascertain whether this was the
37:21
Speaker 1: person or not. You could probably use teeth information, but
37:26
Speaker 1: apparently that would not be Remember he said he had
37:29
Speaker 1: a sledgehammer to destroy what was left in the bones.
37:33
Speaker 1: But yeah, but also he had turned the heat up,
37:37
Speaker 1: left the oven and the stove on to intensify the
37:40
Speaker 1: heat to hasten the decomposition process. But also he had
37:46
Speaker 1: gone to extreme measures to get rid of being any
37:51
Speaker 1: semblance of identification. You'll be happy to know a jury
37:55
Speaker 1: found him guilty, no doubt about it. So when is
37:59
Speaker 1: this sentencing set to go down, Yvonne Thomas, Well, he
38:04
Speaker 1: was sentenced that day that the jury mayfair verdict for
38:07
Speaker 1: the first degree murder counts. He will be sentenced on
38:10
Speaker 1: November nineteenth for the abuse of a corpse charges. We
38:16
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off
38:22
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,