Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #898 Porn-Proofing Your Kids with Kristen Jenson

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#898 Porn-Proofing Your Kids with Kristen Jenson · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, I like to say hashtag sooner is safer because
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  Speaker 2: you cannot predict when that child is going to be
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  Speaker 2: exposed to pornography.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum
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  Speaker 1: and Dad.
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  Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six
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  Speaker 3: books about raising happy families and the founder of happy
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  Speaker 3: families dot com. Do you today a very special guest.
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  Speaker 3: I'm really excited to be able to talk about something
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  Speaker 3: that matters a great deal. In the next couple of weeks,
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  Speaker 3: We've got a summit called Bringing Up Boys coming up,
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  Speaker 3: and the topic we're going to discuss just now with
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  Speaker 3: Kristen Jensen from Defend Young Minds is a subject that
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  Speaker 3: affects well over ninety percent of our young men. Research
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  Speaker 3: suggests that it could be as much by the age
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  Speaker 3: of fifteen as ninety nine percent of them are involved
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  Speaker 3: with viewing, whether intentionally or otherwise, explicit content online pornography.
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  Speaker 3: And that's something that Kristin has got a lot to
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  Speaker 3: talk to us about right now. Kristen's the founder of
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  Speaker 3: Defend Young Minds and the best selling author of Good Pictures,
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  Speaker 3: Bad Pictures, pawn Proofing Today's young Kids, and also Good Pictures,
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  Speaker 3: Bad Pictures Junior, a Simple Plan to Protect young minds.
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  Speaker 3: Kristin is also a mum of three, grandma to two,
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  Speaker 3: and lives in the United States in Washington State. Or
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  Speaker 3: is that pronounced Washington? How do you say that, Kristen,
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  Speaker 3: because I've heard both Washington. You're a Washington You're a
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  Speaker 3: Washington person. Okay, every now and again I'm meet somebody
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  Speaker 3: who's from Washington, and I always always smile when I
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  Speaker 3: hear that. It doesn't read like there's an R there. So, Kristen,
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  Speaker 3: We've got a lot to talk about. Thank you so
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  Speaker 3: much for joining me on the podcast. My first question
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  Speaker 3: is a confronting reality. I regularly hear from parents of
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  Speaker 3: kids as young as seven or eight, sometimes even younger,
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  Speaker 3: although you it's around seven or eight, who have found
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  Speaker 3: that the kids that is, have found or they've been
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  Speaker 3: shown explicit content pornographic content online. I don't use the
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  Speaker 3: term adult content. I know a lot of people are like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: it's adult content. I don't think that it's appropriate to
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  Speaker 3: suggest that it's universally something that adults are seeking access
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  Speaker 3: to So I prefer to call it explicit content or pornography.
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  Speaker 3: So these kids have been on the school bus and
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  Speaker 3: somebody's shown them this explicit content, or they've been told
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  Speaker 3: to look something up online, or they've had a big
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  Speaker 3: kid to a sleepover expose them to harmful content. What
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  Speaker 3: do you think is the basic message about this that
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  Speaker 3: every parent needs to understand and act on.
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  Speaker 2: Well, a couple of things. First of all, I say
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  Speaker 2: that every school bus in America and other places is
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  Speaker 2: a you know, triple X rated movie theater.
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  Speaker 3: Really, so that makes me shut out. I hear you
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  Speaker 3: say that, and I know it's true, but I just think, no,
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  Speaker 3: this is why I want my kids to catch the
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  Speaker 3: school bus. And I know so many parents feel that way.
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  Speaker 2: Well, they're going to see it sometime. It's a matter
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  Speaker 2: of being right. So they need to be prepared because
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  Speaker 2: none of us do very well when we're caught off guard.
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  Speaker 2: When children are prepared and understand what to do when
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  Speaker 2: they see pornography, then they have a real choice. They
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  Speaker 2: have a better choice to turn away. And when you
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  Speaker 2: educate them, then you have then they really have a
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  Speaker 2: chance to make a good decision. You know about bad pictures,
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  Speaker 2: So I would say parents. The message is parents need
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  Speaker 2: to prepare their children early because they will see it
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  Speaker 2: at some point. The second message is that kids, good kids,
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  Speaker 2: get pulled into porn. I mean, it's not that they're
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  Speaker 2: bad kids, and it has nothing to do with the
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  Speaker 2: fact that you're a wonderful parent either. It's out there,
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  Speaker 2: and so they need to learn defensive strategies against it.
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  Speaker 2: They need to learn to protect themselves because we can't
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  Speaker 2: completely protect them from it. We can do everything we
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  Speaker 2: can filters and conversation everything. We should try all of
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  Speaker 2: that and do all of that because we have a
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  Speaker 2: duty of care actually to do all that. But we
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  Speaker 2: need to prepare them to defend themselves. So that's really
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  Speaker 2: the point of my books and the curriculum that we've
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  Speaker 2: developed is to help children learn what to do when
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  Speaker 2: they see pornography. And there's a lot of success stories
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  Speaker 2: in here all the time. One of my favorites is
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  Speaker 2: a mom read her nine year old son good pictures,
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  Speaker 2: bad pictures, and he went to school and three days
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  Speaker 2: later on the playground right he was shown pornography by
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  Speaker 2: another student with a smartphone, and he looked, he saw,
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  Speaker 2: he recognized it. He went home. He told his mom
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  Speaker 2: and he said, I was scared, but I knew what
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  Speaker 2: to do. And you can just feel the burden coming
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  Speaker 2: off of his shoulders. I was scared, but I knew
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  Speaker 2: what to do. Sometimes porn is scary at the same
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  Speaker 2: time that it's very intriguing to these kids. So we
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  Speaker 2: also need to teach them that, you know, it's they're
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  Speaker 2: not about kid. If they are interested, it's just that
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  Speaker 2: it's bad for them, and so it's important for them
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  Speaker 2: to teach them early.
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  Speaker 3: So when do you encourage parents to start talking about
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  Speaker 3: bad pictures? Because you're saying start early and obviously have
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  Speaker 3: the conversation often. How early? How often?
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  Speaker 2: So I would say it's not an exact age, it's
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  Speaker 2: whenever your child has any access to the internet, because
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  Speaker 2: once they're on the internet, there are no iron gates.
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  Speaker 2: It's difficult once they're out there, and kids, especially as
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  Speaker 2: they get a little older, they learn ways to get
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  Speaker 2: around what we think might be barriers. And we also
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  Speaker 2: think that they wouldn't be interested until they get to
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  Speaker 2: be of an age where they're going through puberty. But
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  Speaker 2: that's not true. Young kids can be very interested in
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  Speaker 2: this material unfortunately, So I would say, when I first started,
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  Speaker 2: I was writing the book for seven year olds seven
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  Speaker 2: to eleven, and I thought I got people saying seven,
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  Speaker 2: that's way too early. But then I had parents come
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  Speaker 2: up to me and say, hey, do you have a
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  Speaker 2: book for preschoolers? And I just remember the first time
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  Speaker 2: a mom came up to me and asked me that,
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  Speaker 2: I felt like someone had, you know, punched me in
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  Speaker 2: the gut because what three year olds? But then I
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  Speaker 2: look around, you know, every three year old seems like
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  Speaker 2: they're on some kind of a tablet or a device.
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  Speaker 2: And so I wrote Good Pictures Bad Pictures Junior because
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  Speaker 2: I had so many parents that they saw the need
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  Speaker 2: and they asked me to write it. So these are
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  Speaker 2: things that you need to start early. The earlier you started,
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  Speaker 2: the more comfortable it's going to be. I like to
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  Speaker 2: say hashtag sooner is safer because you cannot predict when
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  Speaker 2: that child is going to be exposed to pornography. You
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  Speaker 2: just can't. Most parents are surprised. In fact, there's a
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  Speaker 2: huge naivete gap. They've done studies on this recently, one
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  Speaker 2: done in the UK that showed that when they ask parents,
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  Speaker 2: you know, how many of you think that your kid
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  Speaker 2: is seemed born. Twenty five percent of them said yes.
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  Speaker 2: Then they asked their own kids and it was fifty
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  Speaker 2: three percent. That's a huge gap, more than double had
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  Speaker 2: actually seen porn. And when it came to girls, it
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  Speaker 2: was the gap was even bigger because parents don't think
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  Speaker 2: that their daughters are going to be interested or have
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  Speaker 2: a problem with it, but they do. And so we
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  Speaker 2: need to protect our daughters as well as our sons
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  Speaker 2: by having these conversations and teaching them from a young age.
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  Speaker 2: So I would say start by three, or anytime they
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  Speaker 2: have access to any kind of device, whether it's in
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  Speaker 2: your home or in someone else's home, talk.
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  Speaker 3: Us through a conversation. If you've got to bring this
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  Speaker 3: up with the kids, what do you start, How does
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  Speaker 3: this happen? And would you suggest that it should change
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  Speaker 3: as your child gets older?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely everything changes as they get older. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so start out with just the basics and my Good
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  Speaker 2: Pictures Bad Pictures Junior book. It's very simple, very gentle,
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  Speaker 2: and it just teaches children to one recognize what a
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  Speaker 2: bad picture is, to understand that it's harmful, and three
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  Speaker 2: know what to do, have a plan so they know
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  Speaker 2: what to do when they see it, so a definition,
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  Speaker 2: a warning, and a plan, and the definition just needs
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  Speaker 2: to be something very simple. The one we use when
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  Speaker 2: I use in the book is something like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: pornography or bad pictures are pictures of people with little
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  Speaker 2: or no clothing on that focus on the private parts
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  Speaker 2: of the body that we keep covered with swimsuit. Now
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  Speaker 2: that some people say, oh, that's too simple, that's just nudity.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we don't want to be body negative, we
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  Speaker 2: want to be body positive all that stuff. Look, I
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  Speaker 2: get it, I'm body positive, I'm sex positive. But you know,
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  Speaker 2: you really need to keep in mind that you're talking
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  Speaker 2: with a child and you have to keep it very simple.
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  Speaker 2: So start out with a simple definition, and then talk
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  Speaker 2: about the you know why it's harmful, and we have
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  Speaker 2: a lot of that information in the books. And then
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  Speaker 2: third give them a plan. So with the Gender Book,
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  Speaker 2: it's turn run and tell, and we give you know,
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  Speaker 2: kids like little actions of what they can do to
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  Speaker 2: practice this. And then with the older kids, it's the
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  Speaker 2: can do plan and it really gives those kids the
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  Speaker 2: five steps they need to go through to not only
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  Speaker 2: deal with pornography in the moment that they see it,
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  Speaker 2: but also what happens when those memories keep popping back
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  Speaker 2: up in your mind. The brain is wired and designed
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  Speaker 2: to remember shocking things. So I remembers members the porn. Well,
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  Speaker 2: how do you minimize that so it doesn't bother the child?
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  Speaker 2: And so the child isn't tempted to go and look.
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  Speaker 2: So those things are all explained, and it's important to
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  Speaker 2: have a plan in place. So again a definition, a warning,
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  Speaker 2: and a plan, and you ask also how should those
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  Speaker 2: conversations change over time.
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  Speaker 3: I'm speaking with Kristin Jensen. She's the author of Good Pictures,
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  Speaker 3: Bad Pictures and also the CEO of Defend Young Minds.
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  Speaker 3: Right after the break, we're going to find out why
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  Speaker 3: some parents are so dismissive of pornography or explicit content
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  Speaker 3: and how we can help them, and also look at
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: some of the research go a bit deeper into how
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  Speaker 3: porn can harm kids.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: of Disciplined is a webinar to help parents say limits
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: with love, compassion and humanity. To find it now at
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: happyfamilies dot com dot au slash Shop.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers Now. Kristin Jensen, the
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: author of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, joins me for a
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  Speaker 3: conversation about pornography christ And a few years ago I
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  Speaker 3: attended a conference called porn Harm's Kids. It seems that
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  Speaker 3: in the research arena there are some people who will
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  Speaker 3: argue that pornography is not universally and always harmful for adults.
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  Speaker 3: It's a fairly touchy subject, and there are some invested
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  Speaker 3: interests involved in that research. But one thing that I
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  Speaker 3: seem to be seeing across the entire research arena is
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  Speaker 3: pretty well universal agreement that pornography does harm children. Can
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  Speaker 3: you tell me a little bit more about why this
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  Speaker 3: is the case?
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  Speaker 2: How it does? Sure, well, pornography sexualizes children at a young,
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  Speaker 2: very young age, so it's premature. They're not ready to
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  Speaker 2: be sexualized. They're not ready to make these decisions or
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  Speaker 2: understand these things. We see pornography leaking into an influencing
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  Speaker 2: pop culture. So kids want to look sexy when they're
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  Speaker 2: seven years old, I mean, so we see that that's
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  Speaker 2: a harm. It disrupts the normal childhood development. Again, children
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  Speaker 2: we are not designed to be sexual until they're much older,
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  Speaker 2: until their thinking brain has developed a little bit more
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  Speaker 2: and they can make better decisions, and it warps their
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  Speaker 2: attitudes about sex. So where I would say most parents
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  Speaker 2: want their children to believe that sex is a positive,
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  Speaker 2: loving thing that bonds people together, people that love each other,
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  Speaker 2: respect each other, trust each other. You know, pornography teaches
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  Speaker 2: the exact opposite. It's self centered, often violent pornography really
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  Speaker 2: gives them a toxic script about sex that really impacts
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  Speaker 2: their ability to have an intimate sexual relationship when they're
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  Speaker 2: older and when they're mature and when they're ready to
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  Speaker 2: do that. And I have talked with so many people
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  Speaker 2: who have been pulled into porn and they really struggle
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  Speaker 2: with that. We know through research that porn changes sexual behavior,
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  Speaker 2: and it increases sexual violence and users a lot of
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  Speaker 2: you know, good studies coming out of Australia with that
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  Speaker 2: as well. And then porn use fuels child on child
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  Speaker 2: harmful sexual behavior. So it's hard when a child gets
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  Speaker 2: involved in pornography, but when that pornography leads them to
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  Speaker 2: do harmful things on other children, you've got a whole
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  Speaker 2: another big problem.
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  Speaker 3: I recently got a podcast where an it year old
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  Speaker 3: described his exposure and interest in pornography that began when
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: he was very young, way too young. His parents had
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  Speaker 3: done all of the stuff that you've talked about today.
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  Speaker 3: While they didn't necessarily have your book, They'd had regular conversations,
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  Speaker 3: they'd walked through the harms and the risks. They'd given
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  Speaker 3: him plans, and they had the internet filters, all the
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  Speaker 3: right stuff. They did it all, but he still got
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  Speaker 3: caught up in it to the point where he was
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  Speaker 3: exploring explicit content up to seven to ten times per day.
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  Speaker 3: He disclosed on the podcast. It feels like there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot at stake. This is going to I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: say this, I believe it's going to affect all of
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: his relationships throughout the rest of his life, particularly his
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: intimate ones, as he moves forward. What advice do you
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  Speaker 3: have for a parent who has discovered that their child
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  Speaker 3: is using pornography, particularly if they're using it intentionally and regularly,
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  Speaker 3: and they don't seem to be able to find a
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  Speaker 3: way through it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, as you mention, as you said, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: the pull born is very strong, and for some people
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  Speaker 2: it's very very strong, and so parents can do everything
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  Speaker 2: possible and the child still has their agency, their ability
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  Speaker 2: to choose right. And as a parent myself, I know
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  Speaker 2: there are things that I taught my kids and they
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily. They're struggling with some of those things still,
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  Speaker 2: So it happens. I would say that some kids learn
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  Speaker 2: by instruction, some kids learn by example, but some kids
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  Speaker 2: have to learn by their own sad experience. And so
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  Speaker 2: you are going to get these kids that you do
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: all the right things and they still get pulled into it.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, we have a guide on defend Young Minds,
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  Speaker 2: which is my kids out Porn, now what? So it
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  Speaker 2: helps parents if there's a smart plan. It helps parents respond,
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  Speaker 2: you know, and be prepared to respond to that so
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: that they respond in a helpful way. But I think
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  Speaker 2: you have to accept that your child needs to want
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  Speaker 2: to quit porn and it has to be for themselves
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  Speaker 2: and not just to please you as a parent. But
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  Speaker 2: in the end, you have to realize that love is
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  Speaker 2: still the foundation of helping your child. Your relationship is
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  Speaker 2: ultimately more important in the long term, and it will
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  Speaker 2: help you help them because at some point, if you
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: have a good and a strong and a loving relationship
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: despite the fact that they're not behaving the way you
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: want them to behave you will have that influence, you
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  Speaker 2: will have that ability to help and don't make porn
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  Speaker 2: the wedge that comes between you and your child. That's
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  Speaker 2: just the best advice I can get.
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  Speaker 3: Such a valuable and important conversation. Kristin Jensen from Defend
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Young Minds. If people want more info, where should they go?
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  Speaker 3: What can they find?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they can find us on Instagram, they can
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: find us on Facebook, and they can go to our
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: website Defend Youngminds dot com. We have a free guide
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: that they can download instantly and it's how to talk
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: to Kids about pornography, a quick start guide that gets
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you up and running about this topic and some statistics,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and then we have other guides that are very helpful
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: as well. So check us out at Defend Youngminds dot
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: com and also check out our Brain Defense. We have
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: a new curriculum for kids ages eight to twelve and
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: it's video based. It's really fun and actually entertaining, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: so it's brain defense Digital safety. So check that out
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: as well on our website.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Every month on the first Sunday of the month, my
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  Speaker 3: family sits down and we have a conversation about topics
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  Speaker 3: like pornography or intimacy or these big heavy topics. We
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: make it a point, we make it a date. It's
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  Speaker 3: an every first Sunday of the month thing. And this
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  Speaker 3: is a book that we are going to be discussing
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: in our next First Sunday discussion. I can't wait to
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  Speaker 3: read it to my kids. So grateful for the conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks Kristin, thank you so much. And to all of
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: your listeners, make sure they know that they can get
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: good pictures bad pictures on Amazon in Australia.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Perfect. Thank you so much to Kristen Jensen from Defend
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Young Minds. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: and for all the info you need, you can check
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: out the show notes for the links, or visit Happy
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Families dot com dot au
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  Speaker 2: Eight