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Fort Blunder: The US Fort Mistakenly Built in Canada · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Uh, this episode is
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: about a hilarious mistake, a goof a doof a whoopsie blunder.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: My name is Ben? A blender, a blending of blunders? Perhaps, yeah,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: a blending of blunder. Is that on first blush seems
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: a little unremarkable, But no, sir, no sir, it was
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: not unremarkable because it has to do with borders. We've
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: been doing a little border theme lately. We had that
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: war between what was it, Ohio and they had that
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: no man's land where no man knew who it belonged
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to because of a poor mapping and just pource what
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: speculation right or um? Cartography? Cartography? That's the word, Ben.
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  Speaker 1: Such is the case in today's episode where the US
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  Speaker 1: accidentally built a military based on the wrong side of
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  Speaker 1: the US Canada border spoiler alert. But there's more to
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  Speaker 1: it than that, isn't there? So in eighteen sixteen, Um,
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  Speaker 1: it became a big deal that we protect our border
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  Speaker 1: with Canada. Why you might ask, why is that? I'll
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: tell you why, Ben, You think we think of Canada
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: as our mellow You know stoner neighbors to the north. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's like it's uh. One time, I don't completely agree
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with this. One time friend of mine referred to Canada
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: as diet America and I said, why's that and they said, well,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: it's a little better for you, and I was like,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: you know nothing about the diet soda game man analogy. Oh,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: we should give a shout out to our guest super
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Controlled Decant. He's like our Canada. He
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: actually he and he is Canada. He and super producer
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Casey Begraam are very good friends outside of the show.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: The American version of Casey It's funny Casey Uh. He
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: has his second life in Paris, France as La Bouche,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: but occasionally he carries on a third life as a
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  Speaker 1: logger in French. Canada also goes by the moniker La Bouche.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Where's a slightly different outfit, much more of a plaid
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: flannel lumberjack flannel situation. Um and yeah, and he's he
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: has an unstoppable force in the logging industry and it
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: all ties into his Parisian criminal empire, which which we
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: should save for its own episode. I think we should
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: because boundaries are important exactly. Speaking of boundaries, so we're
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: talking about Canada, we think of them as as our friends,
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  Speaker 1: which they are. But at the time, I mean, there's
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  Speaker 1: still what what would you call them van a territory
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  Speaker 1: of the United Kingdom, Like, how how are they connected
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  Speaker 1: to the United Kingdom. Well, the thing is that the
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  Speaker 1: British use Canadian land as a taking off point for invasions.
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  Speaker 1: So during both the American Revolutionary War and again in
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  Speaker 1: the War of eighteen twelve, British forces launch invasions down
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  Speaker 1: Lake Champlain with hopes of cutting America in two and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: so the Madison administration says, this is a weak point,
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  Speaker 1: this cannot be happening. We have to do something her
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: um for um, for um, something must be done. We
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: need a sick fortress, we need a dope a f fortress.
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  Speaker 1: That's the best solution. So they construct a modern, heavy
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  Speaker 1: fort modern for that day, on the New York shore
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  Speaker 1: of Lake Champlain, and they named the place Fort Montgomery,
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  Speaker 1: in honor of General Richard Montgomery, hero of the Revolutionary War.
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  Speaker 1: And this dude named Joseph Totten, who later became the
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  Speaker 1: chief engineer of the U. S Army of the whole army.
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  Speaker 1: This guy meant business. He oversaw the construction and it
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  Speaker 1: was a thirty foot tall structure. It was made out
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  Speaker 1: of the same vermont Um limestone that later was used
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  Speaker 1: to construct Radio City Music Hall in the Brooklyn Bridge. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: and they built this thing up. It was gonna have
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  Speaker 1: a cannon ports and any ship that was passing by
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  Speaker 1: on the British side was going to be given What
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  Speaker 1: for sounds great on paper, here's the problem. This was
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  Speaker 1: an embarrassment on multiple levels. And we'll get to the
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  Speaker 1: big one in a sect. But just the building itself,
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  Speaker 1: it was, as you said, eight sided, thirty ft high,
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  Speaker 1: but it was built on a weak, unstable foundation that
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: was mainly composed of debris bought from ruins of the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Plattsburgh batteries and outworks. So literally the foundations of this
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  Speaker 1: thing a week. It can't hold, and uh, it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: matter if it does hold, because they figured out what
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  Speaker 1: was wrong pretty quickly. Yeah, at the most embarrassing time possible,
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  Speaker 1: because Madison actually showed up to get a glance, to
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  Speaker 1: get a gander at the progress that his you know
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  Speaker 1: that he had he had proposed this fort and that
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  Speaker 1: is when they realized that they had actually built the
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  Speaker 1: thing on the Canada side. Let's get a tire screech. Perfect. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you see, under the seventy three Treaty of Paris, the
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  Speaker 1: border between New York and Quebec was the parallel. But
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  Speaker 1: the previous understanding of the location of that line of
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  Speaker 1: latitude was incorrect, a fact that surveyors did not discover
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  Speaker 1: until eighteen eighteen. At this point, the US has already
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  Speaker 1: spent two hundred and seventy five thousand dollars construction. That
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  Speaker 1: is not chump change of the time. That a serious, big,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: imaginary military money. Yeah, let's let's in fleation. Calculate this
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  Speaker 1: real quick. Here we go. Two hundred and seventy five
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  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in eighteen eighteen is now worth approximately five million,
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  Speaker 1: five hundred thirty three thousand, five hundred nineteen dollars and
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  Speaker 1: sixty cents. Okay, so maybe not like Avatar money, but
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  Speaker 1: you know, five million dollars five structure, that's a lot.
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  Speaker 1: That's a lot firs stone instructure. It's true. There wasn't
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  Speaker 1: even any like moving parts. There wasn't even any technology.
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  Speaker 1: Probably windows, windows, door hinges, the original moving parts. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: so this is This is a tremendous embarrassment, right. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: what what do they do when they figure out that
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  Speaker 1: this fort designed to protect the US from Canada is
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  Speaker 1: you know, in Canada. Yeah. And it wasn't until eighteen
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  Speaker 1: forty two that this discrepancy about the borderline was resolved.
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  Speaker 1: There's something called the Webster Ashburton Treaty that provided the
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  Speaker 1: understanding that the original border was going to hold. The
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  Speaker 1: old line, um was that was surveyed by Valentine and
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  Speaker 1: Collins in seventeen seventy four. That was known as the
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  Speaker 1: forty five degree of north latitude and then became known
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  Speaker 1: as the actual divide between New York and Vermont on
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  Speaker 1: one side and the British province of Canada on the other.
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  Speaker 1: And from this is a quote actually from a neat
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  Speaker 1: Arama article, And from said point of intersection west along
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  Speaker 1: the said divide lies as heretofore known and understood to
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  Speaker 1: the Iroquois as or Sir Lawrence River. You know, this
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  Speaker 1: is back in the day when if you wanted stuff
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: to sound totally profound, you added said you just peppered
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: in said. At some point, you know, our said guest
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  Speaker 1: producer Paul Decan is agree here. So it's it's interesting
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  Speaker 1: because they tried to resolve the issue. But while they
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  Speaker 1: were resolving this, we have to remember this fort had
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  Speaker 1: been abandoned decades. Locals are looting the construction site because
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  Speaker 1: the work stopped, you know, and uh, Fort Montgomery, by
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  Speaker 1: the time two comes around, is widely known as Fort Blunder.
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  Speaker 1: But to to your point, after this Webster Ashburton Treaty,
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  Speaker 1: that's the one right, they resumed construction in eighteen four
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  Speaker 1: and Fort Blunder actually get some get some play. It's
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a it's a working base. No, I'm just saying actually,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: like I'm surprised. Look, it's a living language. I'll speak
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I want as well you should. Then I will ask
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: questions as I want. Do you Are you one of
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: those people who's intimidated by the use of the word
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: actually or is it? For me? It's when it's at
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the beginning of a sentence, it always so why are
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you doing this? Yeah, it's sort of to me it's
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: a license to tune out whatever the person is about
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to say after that. So I actually appreciate it because
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a context clue where you know, whatever's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: gonna follow is going to be pretentious and unhelpful, like
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: that old Dmitri Martin observation when he says, I love
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: bumper stickers. Such a convenient way of saying, let's never
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: talk agreed. Oh I I like bumper stickers. They're just
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: not for me. You're not for me either. No, No,
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  Speaker 1: I have a virgin car. This is straight. You can
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: see photos of Fort Blunder Fort Montgomery Excuses. If you
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: want to check out some close up pictures, visit historic
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Lakes dot org, where you can see you can see
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  Speaker 1: the lay of the land, you can see the old
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  Speaker 1: map where they miscalculated everything. You can even see a
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  Speaker 1: sketch about blunder Um, which depicts the the structure we
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: talked about earlier. I don't know if we talked about
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  Speaker 1: some of the features of the fort outside of the
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  Speaker 1: gun turrets or whatever, the little windows um, but it
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  Speaker 1: did at one point stand ford eight feet high. The
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  Speaker 1: western facing wall was known as the Gorge, and that
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  Speaker 1: was adjacent to a giant called that's something called a
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  Speaker 1: cover face or an earthen bank, and that was created
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  Speaker 1: as a defensive aid for land attacks, and then it
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  Speaker 1: had a moat. I didn't realize that I mean, it's
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  Speaker 1: very much like old school kind of castle type features. Right.
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  Speaker 1: It had a moat which was referred to as a
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  Speaker 1: wet ditch, which was filled with lake water. These days
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  Speaker 1: it is not it is not looking so hot. It
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  Speaker 1: is quite worse for wear because a lot of local
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you know, kids and ruffians and biker gangs, you know,
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  Speaker 1: have just tagged it all up. It is actually for
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  Speaker 1: sale if you're in the market. Um. In the nine twenties,
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  Speaker 1: the US sold Fort Montgomery at an auction, and then
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three Victor Pod, who was a shipping
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  Speaker 1: magnate from mont Real, that's when he bought it, uh,
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  Speaker 1: and he offered part of the property to New York
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  Speaker 1: State as a historic preservation site, but New York did
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  Speaker 1: not want it. Then Pod died in ninety nine and
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  Speaker 1: his sons inherited the fort and tried to sell it
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  Speaker 1: on eBay and actually got one valid bid for five
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  Speaker 1: million bucks, but it fell through. Still for sale, I
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: believe the current asking price is around a million bucks.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of depreciation, really is some five point
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  Speaker 1: five three whatever, just sixty nine. That's worse than like
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: dealership depreciation when you drive the car off the lot,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you know, one million, not even a million. Ah, yes,
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  Speaker 1: So from five point five million dollars and sixty nine
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  Speaker 1: sins to just under a million dollars, that's boat level depreciation.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, hopefully a lesson learned. There's a great
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  Speaker 1: Atlas Obscure article about the current situation, and Fort Montgomery
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  Speaker 1: is encountering, which just says for sale and abandoned decay
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: fort on a private island. It says decaying. Huh, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: it is. You can see some great pictures. It's overgrown,
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  Speaker 1: there's graffiti all over it. There probably you know, syringes.
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  Speaker 1: You know, they would have gone in there and guss
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: eat it up a little bit like they did for
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: real estate photos. You know, they're really not trying to
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  Speaker 1: upsell this thing, are they been? No, No, they're not
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: really because the problem here is one of infrastructure, right,
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  Speaker 1: and it's still on the National Register of Historic Places.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: But every okay, everybody knows that it needs to be saved,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: but nobody's willing to uh pony up the scratch and cheddar,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the itchy cheddar to uh to support it. For instance,
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  Speaker 1: the Preservation League of New York State included this fort
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  Speaker 1: on its seven to Save list in two thousand and nine,
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  Speaker 1: a roundup of at risk historic sites that need help,
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  Speaker 1: and according to Katie Peace, the communications director of the
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  Speaker 1: Preservation League of New York State, there are no current
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  Speaker 1: plans to rehabilitate the site. Uh it joins the ranks
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  Speaker 1: of other historical places and objects of significance, like the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: gunboat Spitfire, which was part of the American fleet that
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: contributed to the Saratoga Victory in seventeen seventies seven, or
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the John van Houston House, which looks worse for wear,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: but is a early eighteenth century example of Dutch settlement
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: along the Hudson, the plum Bronson House, which is also
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: just rapidly deteriorating, and the Magdalen Island, which has an
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: ancient past as a stopping place for Native American populations
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: or First Nations and Europeans who came later, the historic
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: South Street Seaport, the Burden Iron Works Museum. Those are
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the seven, but there are many, many more, And when
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you look around, whether it's in the US or in
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: other countries, I'm sure there's no shortage of decaying pieces
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: of history that should be preserved. Like have you ever
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: driven through Tennessee. Yeah, a little bit, but not not
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: not not a ton. Give me the scoop Tennessee is uh.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: There must be some government program. I can say this
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: because I have family there. There must be some government
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: program to make sure that everybody has at least one
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: to two decaying barns in their fields. And you can
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: even see them when you just drive on the interstate.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: But I'm always baffled by that, you know what I mean,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: because these barns are in use, but they're ready for
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: one match to make them. That's very similar to driving
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: into some of the rural roads in UH in Georgia,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: like between Atlanta and Athens, for example, or Augusta and Athens.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Lots of big open fields with just a single ramshackled
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: barn in the middle UH. And it looks like it's
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: leaning kind of at a canted angle, like it could
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: fall down with just a light breath of wind. Wire
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: grass country, especially if you drive. This is an example
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: for people who don't know how big this state is,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: especially driving from Atlanta to Savannah down on Georgia's small
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Atlantic coast. Have you made that drive? I have. It's
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: been a minute them that's a long one. It's a
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: long one, and it's not a particularly exciting one for
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: some people. But it's what how long is it? It's
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: ours from here to Savannah? From Atlanta, I believe it's
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: about six hours. Six hours, Yeah, six long hours, full
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: of full of history, and full of things that look
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the worse for where you know. It reminds me whenever
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I travel somewhere, whether for work or weather for personal reasons,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I always try to find a local museum or an
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: historic site. In Texas, recently, super producer Paul Michigan Control
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Decan and I visited the Alum. Oh and hey, check
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: this out, man, I got something for you. Ben is
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: now rummaging through his bag of tricks. Um, okay, here
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: you go. I couldn't bring you the actual Alumo, but
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I found that found a little thing. It's a pamphlet.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: It's a handbill for the Alamo. Yeah, it absolutely is. Ben,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: give me the rundown of the Alumo as I so.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: So the thing that I think startled both Paul and myself.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: It was And Paul, tell me if I get this wrong,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: is that when we went to the actual Alumo uh
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and and went inside, it's free to attend by the way.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Everything was under restoration or construction work, and there were
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: there were entire pieces of the building that needed to
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: be saved right uh, that were off limits, and we
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: we didn't get to do a lot of the fun stuff.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: There's a re enactor who will built you in a
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: card game. We missed that. It was early in the morning.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: But I'm a huge I'm a huge fan of that stuff,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and I hope that I hope that we can as
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a species do our best to preserve the physical traces
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of those who came before us, whether that is a
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: military fort, a vessel of note. Um, I don't know.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I see are there's a pretty big footprint for the
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: gift shop here, Ben. Was it spectacular? Was it an
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: above average gift shop? It was? You know it was?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: It was. It was interesting. It was interesting. I I
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: did not personally pick up any gifts. I was there.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I was there for this story. But they have all
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you know, Texas branded stuff, shot glasses, ashtrays, replica guns. Now, No,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: not this time. If if they were giving out actual
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: pieces of the ALUMO might probably pick one up, but
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: that would maybe defeat their purposes. But you know what,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: my friend, if ever I find myself on Fort Montgomery
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: or Fort Blunder. I will pick up some pieces of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: history for us. Well, that's what we do here on
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History band wee. We pick up the pieces of history.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: We put them back together like a veritable Rubik's cube.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: And this ends our episode. But not it's time, gentleman,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland a k. The quister Jon Strickland Quition. It's
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: gonna be back. Guys. You've got a lot of nerve
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: my friends. I sure do. Just in general, let's let's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: just let's just let's just establish this just for a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: moment though. Gentlemen, you're in my playground now because they're
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: not in your normal studio. You're in my studio. That's true,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that's true. We are we so we have a number
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: of studios here at h Q, and Jonathan, this is
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: uh of the studios where you spend a lot of
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: time recording. Uh let's see tech stuff. That's that's right. Yes,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in your studio, I record the brink, But in my
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: studio I record tex stuff. Yes. And uh, you know,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I gotta say I love what you've done with the place. Thanks,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: thanks you you're enjoying my butt groove right now, you're
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: in my chair. I'm in your chair. That's the chair
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I sit in. Oh that's right, Yeah, I didn't think that.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Are we cool? Do you want to switch chairs? I'm
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: fine with that. If we switch chairs, then you can
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: see whether or not the thing I'm about to tell you,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: if it's true or false. That's You're just I'll just
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: stay here. You're here for a reason. And the most
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: cringe worthy segment in all the podcasting where I present
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: a scenario to the two hosts of Ridiculous History and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: they determine whether or not I made it up or
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: if it's a real one. And I understand we were
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: talking about things about boarders and mistakes, about placing things
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: places where you may not actually own them, so this
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: is a somewhat related to that. But on the other
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: side of the United States of America, the southern side.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Have you ever wondered why Florida has a panhandle that
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: seems to cut off the bottom of the state of
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Alabama all the time, constantly keeps up. We'll have a
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: scenario for you. You will have three minutes to decide
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: whether or not in fact it's true or false. And
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: of course we always have an arbitrary rule, and I
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: didn't come up with one beforehand. So if you're going
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to ask me a question, before you can ask you, you
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you have to yell spring break rules and then you
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: can ask a question. Deal because it has to do
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: with Florida and Alabama. All right, here we go. It's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: because of a really bad map and some quote unquote surveyors.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: After winning or purchasing territories from England, Spain, and France,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the American government got down to the business of establishing
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: states in the early eighteen hundreds. Originally, the Colony of
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Georgia stretched much further to the west, but it was
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: decided that part of that land would be created into
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the state of Alabama. The Chattahoochee River would serve as
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: a border month much of the state line and would
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: go all the way south, and a team of cartographers
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: determined that the Gulf Coast of what would have been
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Alabama fell on the thirty one degree latitude line. Here's
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: the problem. The actual latitude line for the Gulf Coast
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: is thirty degrees, which meant that the map actually ended
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: much further north than the Gulf coast. But that's how
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it was written down, and because that's how it was
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: written down in official documents, that's where the end of
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Alabama would be. And because of that error, Alabama does
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: not have a Gulf coast that stretches across its entire
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: width instead of just has Mobile Bay begin Yes, Mr Brown, well,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I've got a run to the timer. It's in the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: other studio. Hang on here, we're good, all right, we'll
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: just take about five seconds off that. All right? But yes,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: is this is there anything to do with the band
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Florida Georgia line. It certainly has not, as far as
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: they know, and thank the heavens, has nothing to do
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: with that band rules Yes, Mr boh so quister, what
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: you said it was the thirty a matter of confusing
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: THET and the thirty first. Yes, latitude, yes, okay uh?
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: And what year did this happen? It would have been
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the early eight hundreds. It's before Alabama was officially declared
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a state, which was I think I have this written down.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: It's eighty. Hey, you're you're eating our time. I know.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I have the facts written down, but I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: didn't have it. Listen, I'm really much stronger in English
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: history than American history. Yes, but it was in the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: early eighteen It was before before Alabama was made a state,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and certainly much before Florida Florida. I know it was
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: eighteen forty five, which was much later. Okay, Uh, you
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: got anything else? I feel like I feel like this
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: is true. I think it's probably true as well. Ben,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: we'll lock it in. Let's lock it three to one.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Hellack true. It's so not true. It's it's like winning
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't even mean anything anymore. It's you're making me face
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: an existential crisis here, gentlemen, did you ever consider that
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's exactly our to keep playing the game anyway.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: All well, let me tell you exactly what did happen though,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: just to give you the real story, because it's actually
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: fascinating why there's a panhandle. So we have to keep
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in mind there were four major players involved. We have England,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: we have France, we have Spain. We have America. Now,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: before the American Revolution, you had England with the colonies
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that would become the United States of America. You had
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Spain that owned uh, Florida, and that went as far
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it could have gone as far west as the Mississippi.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: You had France that owned the Louisiana Territory that was
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: much of the midwest and the south of what would
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: become the United States of America. Now, France and Spain
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: were sort of in disagreement of where that border was
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: along the southern edge the Gulf Coast, and they eventually
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: decided that Perdido River was the unofficial border, which is
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: between Mobile Bay and Pensacola, Florida. And so they decided
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: that was the boy. But then a whole bunch of
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: different stuff happened. England won the Seven Years War. They
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: took over Florida from Spain. Then Spain gave the Louisiana
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: territory to or France gave the Louisiana Tory tory territory
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to Spain. This is what happens when I do the
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Renaissance Festival three days in a row. I can't talk
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: straight anymore. So Spain now has the Louisiana territory. England
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: now has Florida. England extends the Florida border all the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: way out to the Mississippi. So now the Florida's panhandle
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: reaches much further to the west. Right all, right, Then
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: America is revolting. You could argue frequently throughout its history,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: but it ends up winning the Revolutionary War. England loses,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Florida goes back to Spain. So now Spain owns Florida,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: but now the border goes all the way to the Mississippi.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Spain gives the Louisiana territory back to France, which then
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: turns around and sells it to the Americans. This would
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: be really helpful with a white board. Well, here's or
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of red string. So so here's what the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Americans do. They say, well, we're buying the Louisiana territory,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: but what we're going to do is we're going to
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: refer to Louisiana tory tory back when this map was
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: drawn where the Perdido River was the border. So they
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: essentially tell Spain, oh, no, we bought the Louisiana territory
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: from like three times before. Spain said uh no, And
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: then America sent a bunch of troops down to the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Gulf coast and Spain said all right, fine, And then
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: a few years later Spain ends up surrendering Florida to
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: the United States. And that is why Florida has a
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: panhandle and Alabama has a very limited Gulf coast. Well said,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Well said, you know, I've always It's fascinating because I
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: think where I got I got tripped up is as
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: soon as you were talking about the original size of
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the colony of Georgia. I know part of that is true,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that's true, but I probably should have listened better. The
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: first part, that's true. The rest of it's gonna be right.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I should probably not treat these very important questions the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: way I treat group emails to every or any conversation
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: with me. Honestly, that's not true. No, I listened pretty
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: pretty in depth. You know, I'm calling I have my
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of the Jonathan Strickland aspect of
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: your life. By the way, congratulations on wrapping up the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Renaissance Festival. Thank you, thank you. I I think it
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: added about five years to the age that I already am,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: or perhaps you could say subtracted them from the end
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: of my life. Either. It gets you right around the
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: age you were supposed to be for your character, though,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: because that's what the right around the age was when
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: he died. Yes, Well takes some takes some vitamins. Uh,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Look you I have unfortunate news you can't die yet, Nolan,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I and all our friends listening at home need to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: at least get a little bit out of the hole, right, Yes,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I don't even know how any ahead now, all right,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: but that's fine, it's fine, it's fine. I was actually
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: going to give you the true one originally, and then
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I thought, well, this one's is so convoluted, but it's
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: obviously true. Yeah, And we've been we've been exploring and
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: all I think you said this at the top. We've
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: been exploring a lot of stuff about boundaries and borders recently.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: So this this was an excellent question, and you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: one of these days we're going to get one right. Well.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: It's also it also really illustrates how how this is
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: a sticky, sticky situation, even when you're looking at borders
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: between two areas in the same country. There's there's other
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: stories about states that have had border disputes that had
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to be settled by Congress when they were actually establishing
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the states. Yeah, like the Ohio and Michigan exactly, Like
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: like Hio, Michigan and that that little thin sliver who
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: owns that yes, yes, who owns Toledo. So thank you
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show, Jonathan without giving spoilers,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: because you've got a lot of irons in the fire
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: right now, Where can people visit to learn more about you,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: your work and your shows. Not certainly. You can go
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to tech stuff podcast dot com to look at the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: more than one thousand episodes of tech stuff recorded over
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: the last eleven years. Is that recent one thousand? It's
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: one tho I'm almost up to now, okay, because I remember,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: yes that I I hit a thousand last year. That's right,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: actually because two years ago. But yes, it's a uh.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: We've been doing a lot of interesting work, especially around
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: artificial intelligence and ethics and things of that nature. Not
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: very historically oriented, but I would recommend if you have
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: any interest in the ethics of technology. Yeah, there's been
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: quite a few episodes about that recently, fantastic and I
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: ignore all of that when I come on here. Great, great,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: keep keep your characters like that off offspring song right
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: comes up a rate exactly, but hey, hey, don't pay
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: no mind. As we were saying earlier, this is the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: end of the episode but not the show, and the
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: conversation continues. We want to hear your thoughts. You can
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: find us all on Instagram, Facebook, and uh not Twitch,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: that's that's the thing you did. But Twitter, which is
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: a different thing that sounds similar. Twitter is my new
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: platform that I'm starting. I like Twitter paint. It's sort
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: of a Twitch Twitter hybrid exactly that. Yes, I think
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I have a physical tick that will make me an
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: ideal influencer on Twitter. You can get it on the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: ground floor. Excellent. I like Thither, it's the startup I have.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Uh that's it overlays your favorite GPS devices and gives
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you driving instructions in old English. So it's it's a
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: great Frank gift for your friends. Oh you was supposed
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: to go Thither, but you turned you on a pox
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: on your house. So you can find out more about
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: our our brilliant world changing startups on our Facebook page,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet our favorite part of
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the show, your fellow listeners. You can also follow our
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: individual uh misadventures and Shenanigan re on Instagram. I'm at
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Ben Bolan, I am at how Now, Noel Brown, I'm
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: at John Strickland with her without an got it. He
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: used to be at no H but it's weird, just exactly.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: No one knew, what the what the l what's going on? Oh? Okay, yeah, yeah, no,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. It's it's been a long day. Big
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: thanks to our guest super producer Paul Mission Controlled deck It,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: who has been chilling with us all afternoon and it
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: is probably uh what do you think? No, I think
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he's tired of this yet. You know, he looks okay,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it doesn't like too cranky. He's got a little wry
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: smile on his face. I think it always looks great.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I think it was tired of you before you came
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: in here. Actually, if he has been working with you
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: guys for a really long time, right right, Well, thank
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: you either way, Paul. Also thank you to super producer
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Casey La Bush Pegram wherever he may roam. Big thanks
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to Alex Williams who can post our theme. And thanks
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to a friend of the show, Christopher Hasiotis Thinks as
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: always to Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Whister, Thanks
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to our research associate Gabe and Hey No, thanks to
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: you man, safe travels and to you as well. We'll
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: see you next time, folks. M For more podcasts from
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app Apple
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.