Latest / Scalability School / How To Make Ads That Spend 10K Day With Harry Delmege

Transcript

How To Make Ads That Spend 10K Day With Harry Delmege · Scalability School

• 0:00
  I think there's the amount of times I
• 0:01
  still go into account.
• 0:02
  It's like this UGC where there's B-roll
• 0:05
  every two seconds of the person chucking
• 0:08
  something in a bin or something.
• 0:09
  That was the playbook two years ago.
• 0:11
  Sure, I can see it work, but if you just
• 0:13
  turn that into a Yaprad and make it look
• 0:15
  like it's a TikTok video,
• 0:16
  that's easily how you go
• 0:18
  and get loads of spend.
• 0:18
  That's how we've done it. You
• 0:19
  don't have to go in and play.
• 0:21
  And then I guess the other big thing that
• 0:22
  we do process-wise is
• 0:23
  just manual research.
• 0:25
  That's the one thing that I feel is weird
• 0:28
  that people try and AI-ify.
• 0:30
  It's like, "Why don't you
• 0:31
  just get AI to write it?"
• 0:32
  And then you just do the research.
• 0:34
  I don't know. People
• 0:35
  just try and do it all.
• 0:37
  How do you know if AI is using the words
• 0:39
  that your customers are using?
• 0:40
  That it's talking about the experience
• 0:41
  the customers experience.
• 0:43
  I find it really... If I
• 0:44
  struggle, I don't want to...
• 0:46
  No, because I was like,
• 0:46
  "I'm calling people out."
• 0:47
  I'm like, "Not?"
• 0:48
  But I think with such a young agency,
• 0:49
  it's kind of coming into this account and
• 0:51
  competing like we are.
• 0:52
  It only comes down to the fundamentals.
• 0:54
  That's just what we do with basics.
• 1:08
  Welcome to another
• 1:08
  episode of Scalability School.
• 1:10
  We have Harry Delmege .
• 1:15
  Am I saying that
• 1:16
  properly? Right? Delmege?
• 1:17
  Yeah, no, you go that way.
• 1:18
  I heard in another episode.
• 1:19
  You butchered it. I went with that.
• 1:21
  I butchered it, yeah.
• 1:22
  Because we were in Lisbon together and
• 1:24
  you were like, "It's actually Delmege."
• 1:28
  Yeah, so look, for those
• 1:29
  of you that don't know,
• 1:31
  Harry is a legend and creative.
• 1:34
  He is one of the best people on making
• 1:37
  better creatives that
• 1:38
  I know in the world.
• 1:40
  The cool part is his agency that he
• 1:42
  co-founded with his partner, Georgia,
• 1:45
  is named Roly Poly Digital, which was
• 1:47
  named by my daughter, Norr.
• 1:48
  Okay. While Harry and I concepted how he
• 1:51
  was going to do this in my hot tub.
• 1:53
  So Harry and I are tied together tight,
• 1:55
  but now he's blown up.
• 1:56
  His stock is blowing up.
• 1:58
  And I've been telling everyone, I told
• 2:00
  people yesterday, at Motion,
• 2:01
  they needed to get to know you more
• 2:03
  because there's so many.
• 2:05
  Because I think the work
• 2:07
  that you guys do in creative,
• 2:08
  in terms of the team that you have,
• 2:11
  diving into truly understanding
• 2:13
  the consumer psychology of
• 2:15
  it all is like crazy cool.
• 2:19
  So I'm really stoked
• 2:20
  to talk to you today.
• 2:20
  So welcome, Michelle.
• 2:21
  Do we want to spend more time on the hot
• 2:23
  tub or do you guys want
• 2:24
  to talk about creative?
• 2:26
  We were wearing, we
• 2:27
  were partially clothed.
• 2:29
  And yeah, we were just like, you know,
• 2:31
  coming up with ideas of
• 2:33
  how it was going to work
• 2:33
  and what it looks like, etc.
• 2:36
  And yeah, it was good.
• 2:37
  You know, it's a good time to connect.
• 2:39
  It was a good time to connect.
• 2:40
  So it wasn't, it's
• 2:43
  nothing weird, nothing weird.
• 2:45
  No, it was a good time.
• 2:48
  Yeah, no, I remember when Nora named it.
• 2:51
  So, shout out Nora for giving the name.
• 2:54
  What a legend.
• 2:57
  Definitely.
• 2:57
  Well, we're stoked to have you on.
• 2:59
  And I think, you know, one of the things
• 3:01
  that you, you spend a ton of money on ads
• 3:05
  and one of the things that your shop
• 3:06
  does, I think if you
• 3:08
  can just give a 20 second,
• 3:10
  like this is what we do in our agency, I
• 3:12
  would be, I think we would be remiss if
• 3:14
  we don't frame it up.
• 3:15
  I don't know, it's tough.
• 3:17
  It feels like a sales pitch for me.
• 3:18
  I don't know.
• 3:18
  We make good ads, I guess.
• 3:21
  Yeah, I don't know, man.
• 3:22
  We just make good ads
• 3:24
  that spend a lot of money.
• 3:26
  I guess that's the easiest way to say it.
• 3:30
  Does that work?
• 3:30
  I don't know.
• 3:31
  Yeah, perfect.
• 3:33
  Perfect.
• 3:34
  Yep.
• 3:34
  That's all we need to know.
• 3:35
  That's fantastic.
• 3:36
  All you got to do is scroll, scroll your
• 3:38
  Twitter for like a couple of seconds.
• 3:39
  If you need the validation of the fact
• 3:41
  that you make bangers
• 3:42
  because you've just, you've been
• 3:44
  pumping out bangers recently and that's,
• 3:45
  I think that's where we want
• 3:46
  to, we want to dig into this.
• 3:48
  Yeah, no, I think it's good
• 3:49
  because I do sometimes feel bad.
• 3:51
  I'll just put like a screenshot up and
• 3:52
  then I'm just like, am I
• 3:53
  really adding value here?
• 3:54
  Am I just like showing some numbers?
• 3:58
  So like, no, it's good to hop on and
• 4:00
  actually maybe talk through some of it
• 4:02
  because I definitely feel like a bit of
• 4:04
  an asshole sometimes.
• 4:06
  Well, I mean, okay, so let's just talk
• 4:07
  about the first question, which is, you
• 4:08
  know, what makes an ad spend 10K a day?
• 4:11
  Right.
• 4:11
  What separates an ad that spends $500 a
• 4:14
  day versus 10K a day?
• 4:15
  Is it the hook, the offer,
• 4:17
  the format, the audience match?
• 4:19
  Like what is it?
• 4:20
  Um, do you think?
• 4:22
  I mean, there's so much I could go into
• 4:23
  this, like even before the creative that
• 4:26
  I don't think a lot of
• 4:26
  people talk about as well.
• 4:27
  But obviously I can just focus on
• 4:29
  creative, but like, I mean, you're
• 4:30
  literally talking like unit economics,
• 4:32
  like cogs, like products as well.
• 4:34
  Like some products are just going to be
• 4:35
  able to spend more than others.
• 4:37
  Like I think for one of the ones that
• 4:38
  like I put the screenshots up for, it's
• 4:41
  like that time shoot, like everyone in
• 4:43
  the world would buy one.
• 4:44
  This like, you know,
• 4:45
  obviously you're not capped to that.
• 4:47
  Uh, and then obviously, you know, you see
• 4:49
  people like creaming over like rises ads
• 4:52
  and stuff like that.
• 4:52
  And I'm like, you know, cause how much
• 4:54
  they spend on like, yeah, they fucking
• 4:55
  run at a 0.5 ROAS or something.
• 4:57
  So like, again, it's
• 4:58
  much easier to spend that.
• 5:00
  Guess we're not on to talk about that,
• 5:01
  but I think this is also like, uh, like
• 5:02
  an unsexy part that people don't talk
• 5:04
  about enough as well.
• 5:05
  Like you see these numbers and you have
• 5:06
  no idea the numbers, like, you know, that
• 5:08
  they're getting on return
• 5:09
  or how much they're spending.
• 5:11
  But just talking about ads, I would say
• 5:15
  it comes down to free
• 5:16
  things for me is promise proof.
• 5:20
  And then like, is it confusing?
• 5:23
  That's kind of like it.
• 5:24
  And I imagine if you've got a lot of
• 5:26
  spending ads, you're not taking like
• 5:29
  probably like two of these things, maybe
• 5:31
  not any of them, but for ones that do,
• 5:33
  there's a clear promise.
• 5:34
  What does this product do for me?
• 5:35
  What's the desire?
• 5:36
  Yada, yada.
• 5:37
  How much proof is that?
• 5:38
  And do I believe that proof
• 5:39
  that could be a unique mechanism?
• 5:40
  It can be a story.
• 5:41
  It could be like an authority figure,
• 5:43
  like whatever you want to say.
• 5:44
  And is there any part of
• 5:45
  that ad that's confusing or not?
• 5:47
  Like you see so many good ads that maybe
• 5:48
  they have a great hook and then it goes
• 5:50
  in some like mumbo jumbo that like takes
• 5:52
  the audience out and then
• 5:54
  that ad's just going to flop.
• 5:55
  Right.
• 5:55
  So I think that's like the free things,
• 5:58
  just like keeping it super simple that I
• 6:00
  like focus on all the time.
• 6:02
  Do you think or maybe do you have a
• 6:04
  process or do you think that every single
• 6:07
  ad needs to communicate all that or does
• 6:09
  it just need to show up somewhere in the
• 6:11
  funnel or the purchase journey?
• 6:12
  Like how are you guys
• 6:13
  filtering for those three things?
• 6:14
  Also, we need to come up with a third P
• 6:16
  for that because I think that that will
• 6:18
  work out a little bit more.
• 6:19
  So I'll be thinking about that.
• 6:21
  I'll let you know if I can.
• 6:21
  I appreciate it.
• 6:23
  Free P's.
• 6:25
  Framework wise, like are you checking all
• 6:26
  ads for that or can it
• 6:28
  exist outside of the ad?
• 6:29
  It can be part of the
• 6:29
  landing page experience.
• 6:30
  How do you think to that?
• 6:31
  I think, I mean, like obviously Fox was
• 6:34
  seeing a lot of my ads.
• 6:35
  Like I did a presentation recently.
• 6:37
  I think because we tend to do longer ads
• 6:39
  and like really focus on like top of
• 6:41
  funnel video, then like,
• 6:42
  yeah, we need all free for sure.
• 6:44
  Like, and again, I mean, they're kind of
• 6:47
  like free bake things, but like a
• 6:48
  promise, like every, like every product,
• 6:50
  every ad should have
• 6:51
  some kind of promise.
• 6:52
  And then like the proof is kind of like
• 6:54
  subjective to like, how
• 6:55
  much does that product need?
• 6:58
  Like I think, you know, if you remember
• 7:01
  in the ones that are showing, it was
• 7:03
  like, oh, I thought this drugstore thing
• 7:05
  that I had was good, but it only did X
• 7:07
  amount of vibrations.
• 7:08
  And then I could be taking a set of
• 7:09
  context toothbrushes, but then the one
• 7:13
  that this one has has like 40,000.
• 7:14
  So you're just
• 7:15
  explaining the mechanism, right?
• 7:16
  And it's like, how much
• 7:17
  does the product need?
• 7:18
  Like if it's a toothbrush, it can
• 7:19
  probably be smaller.
• 7:20
  If it's like a bit more complicated,
• 7:22
  you've got to really give
• 7:23
  people that like aha moment.
• 7:27
  So I think it really like, they're kind
• 7:28
  of like, you need to check all free if
• 7:30
  you're wanting to do those.
• 7:31
  And like, if you're doing native ads,
• 7:34
  even still native ads, the long form
• 7:35
  thing, you're probably doing all free,
• 7:37
  you know what I mean?
• 7:37
  Because that's long form copy.
• 7:39
  Yeah.
• 7:39
  And so maybe if you have an ad that
• 7:40
  doesn't have all three, it can be a
• 7:42
  supporting part of the funnel, but it's
• 7:43
  probably not going to be anything that's
• 7:44
  driving the scale in the account.
• 7:46
  I would just try and do
• 7:47
  all free at all times.
• 7:48
  You know what I mean?
• 7:49
  Like, it's just like, if you're like,
• 7:51
  we're on a creative shop, right?
• 7:52
  We do help with some like landing pages
• 7:54
  and stuff like that.
• 7:55
  But like when you have like little
• 7:57
  control outside of that, you might as
• 7:58
  well make sure your ad does all free.
• 7:59
  I think a lot of what you'd showed, it
• 8:02
  were ads that were very long form.
• 8:05
  And I know that you don't only make long
• 8:07
  formats, but that is
• 8:08
  certainly like a specialty.
• 8:10
  And it went through basically, you know,
• 8:12
  going through objection, busting to
• 8:14
  talking about the product to really
• 8:16
  addressing the problem right away.
• 8:18
  So the anatomy of a high performing ad
• 8:20
  for you, what like, you mean kind of
• 8:24
  talked about a little bit, but it's like
• 8:26
  the hook, the problem, the
• 8:27
  mechanism, the proof, the CTA.
• 8:29
  Is it, you know, what is it that that
• 8:33
  really seems to resonate
• 8:34
  when you go into an account?
• 8:35
  Because what the reason I say is I've
• 8:37
  seen you go into accounts that have had a
• 8:40
  hard time scaling and be able to with
• 8:43
  creative make them scale.
• 8:45
  And I think it's a lot of it is the re
• 8:46
  explanation of like figuring out the
• 8:49
  niche issues that people are dealing with
• 8:51
  and talking about the product and
• 8:52
  positioning it against the
• 8:53
  competitors all in one ad.
• 8:56
  Right.
• 8:56
  And because most of the ads you're making
• 8:57
  your video ads, right?
• 8:58
  Correct me if I'm wrong.
• 9:00
  I would say we're
• 9:01
  probably like very video first.
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:03
  Like we try and do a lot of those like
• 9:05
  native static stuff, but I would say we
• 9:09
  have much better video.
• 9:10
  Yeah.
• 9:11
  And it's, and there most of the time,
• 9:13
  what percentage of the ads that you
• 9:15
  deploy are from a creator versus from a
• 9:17
  brand or from like a third party
• 9:19
  whitelisting type thing?
• 9:21
  Some ads, some accounts,
• 9:24
  it's basically like 90%.
• 9:26
  Again, it kind of comes down to us.
• 9:27
  Like, you know, we only make the
• 9:29
  creative, like we obviously like tell
• 9:31
  people they should run third party pages,
• 9:34
  whether that be like
• 9:35
  whitelisting or like pages they own.
• 9:39
  So I guess it's kind of down to them.
• 9:40
  Some accounts were like basically
• 9:41
  exclusively that because again, we don't
• 9:44
  try and make loads of
• 9:45
  bottom up funnel stuff.
• 9:45
  Like we'll obviously do it to supplement.
• 9:48
  Um, so like when we're making this top of
• 9:50
  fun stuff, we're often thinking like,
• 9:51
  okay, this would probably be suited best
• 9:53
  from some like third party page.
• 9:55
  I'm like, we even give like
• 9:55
  recommendations to like, Hey, you could
• 9:57
  name one like this, uh, purely because we
• 9:59
  don't want to make it myself just because
• 10:01
  like with a creative agency.
• 10:02
  And it's just like, it's kind of weird if
• 10:03
  we own that page and can
• 10:05
  get, do you know what I mean?
• 10:05
  And then we split ways or whatever.
• 10:08
  But yeah, I would say some accounts
• 10:09
  basically all from,
• 10:11
  from a third party page.
• 10:13
  And you're so going into this anatomy
• 10:15
  piece a little bit more like, and maybe
• 10:17
  we should just, I don't want to put you
• 10:18
  too much on the spot, but
• 10:20
  I'm sure you're ready for it.
• 10:21
  But like, maybe we just walk through like
• 10:23
  you, you're things are going really fast
• 10:25
  on the agency side, which means you guys
• 10:26
  are hitting bangers quickly, which means
• 10:29
  you probably have a
• 10:30
  pretty dialed process.
• 10:30
  We're getting to that point.
• 10:32
  So like, let's say clients onboarding
• 10:34
  day, day one, like walk us through what
• 10:36
  the, what from onboarding through ad live
• 10:40
  in the ad account looks like just to kind
• 10:42
  of give us a sense of like, what does
• 10:43
  that research process look like?
• 10:44
  What does that, what does it actually
• 10:45
  putting it all together look like?
• 10:47
  Yeah, no, for sure.
• 10:49
  Um, and like I can
• 10:50
  touch on the anatomy stuff.
• 10:51
  Like I think it's like hard sometimes
• 10:52
  that, you know, when you just do stuff
• 10:53
  like most days and then you don't really
• 10:55
  know what you're doing and you're just
• 10:56
  kind of doing it and it's on asking you
• 10:57
  and you're like, I
• 10:59
  don't know how I do that.
• 11:00
  It's just like, so it's a
• 11:02
  good mental exercise too.
• 11:03
  But yeah, okay.
• 11:04
  So we're bringing on a new client.
• 11:07
  Um, a lot of the times, like obviously a
• 11:09
  lot of agencies have their own like
• 11:11
  playbooks on like what
• 11:12
  kind of content they can do.
• 11:13
  I think like, you know, uh, I talk about
• 11:16
  yappers a lot and that kind of stuff.
• 11:18
  Like I'm not a lot of agencies or brands
• 11:21
  seem like they can do that.
• 11:22
  I don't know why.
• 11:23
  I like, I don't know how
• 11:24
  long that would be for either.
• 11:26
  So we know we've got
• 11:27
  that in our like head.
• 11:28
  We're like, okay, cool.
• 11:28
  We can make that piece of content.
• 11:30
  That I, and a lot of
• 11:32
  people come to me as well.
• 11:33
  They ask for that.
• 11:33
  So they, I will assume they
• 11:35
  don't have it, but like, okay.
• 11:36
  So we come in and I think where a lot of
• 11:38
  people go wrong is
• 11:40
  there's like winning desires.
• 11:42
  There's winning stuff in the ad account
• 11:44
  and they just try and do something
• 11:45
  completely fucking different.
• 11:47
  Like maybe they're like, Oh, I got to do
• 11:48
  this like new persona.
• 11:49
  And I'm like, no, but there's so much
• 11:50
  more different
• 11:51
  content that you could make.
• 11:53
  That would just bang and you've got all
• 11:55
  the like, you know, DNA there for the
• 11:57
  banger at like, you know, I think that
• 11:59
  the amount of times I still
• 12:00
  go into accounts and it's like this, like
• 12:01
  UGC where there's like B roll every two
• 12:04
  seconds of like the person,
• 12:05
  like, I don't know, like chucking
• 12:07
  sign can have been all signed.
• 12:08
  That was like the
• 12:08
  playbook like two years ago.
• 12:10
  Sure.
• 12:11
  I can see it work, but like, if you just
• 12:12
  turn that into a Yap for ad and like make
• 12:14
  it look like it's a TikTok video, that's
• 12:16
  easily how you go and get loads of spend.
• 12:18
  That's how we've done it.
• 12:19
  Like you don't have to go in and like try
• 12:22
  and prove our worth for
• 12:23
  these like crazy new formats.
• 12:25
  Like the evidence is there.
• 12:26
  You know what I mean?
• 12:26
  Like you just got to kind of bring
• 12:28
  something new to the account.
• 12:29
  And I think a lot of people talk about
• 12:32
  creative diversity and then they go on
• 12:34
  the accounts and just do the same fucking
• 12:35
  thing the other agency was doing.
• 12:36
  And I'm like, what are we doing?
• 12:38
  Yeah.
• 12:38
  I mean, like it
• 12:39
  seems, it seems pointless.
• 12:40
  True innovation.
• 12:41
  You know, I think like, uh, for those
• 12:44
  that don't know, like what
• 12:44
  do you define as a Yap or ad?
• 12:46
  I mean, I, hopefully people know, but if
• 12:48
  you don't know what is it in your day.
• 12:50
  Um, well, I guess I'll assume a lot of
• 12:53
  people know what Yapping is, but like
• 12:55
  you've seen them that like, um, if you go
• 12:57
  on like TikTok and it's
• 12:58
  just like, you know, often
• 12:59
  some like guy or gal or whatever, like
• 13:01
  telling a story and you
• 13:02
  just, you're just sucked in.
• 13:03
  There's no like B roll or anything.
• 13:05
  They just telling the story and you just
• 13:07
  want to hear the rest of it.
• 13:08
  And then, you know, sometimes I'll
• 13:10
  introduce a product.
• 13:11
  Um, but yeah, it's just someone just
• 13:14
  yapping away that like, and I think this
• 13:16
  is why a lot of people don't do it as
• 13:18
  well is because to find the talent to
• 13:20
  that is a ball lake.
• 13:22
  That's like one of the
• 13:23
  things that takes the longest.
• 13:24
  It's not like the scripting.
• 13:25
  It's not the, it's like
• 13:26
  finding someone that can do that.
• 13:27
  Um, but I'd say that's just
• 13:29
  the best way to describe it.
• 13:30
  It's just someone like talking a lot to a
• 13:32
  phone and they're usually telling some
• 13:34
  kind of story or whatever.
• 13:35
  And you just can't like see to turn away.
• 13:38
  So you, so I'm going
• 13:39
  back to the process side.
• 13:40
  I'm not going to let you
• 13:41
  escape the process side.
• 13:42
  Come from it.
• 13:42
  I'm trying to get some free game here.
• 13:44
  Uh, so, okay.
• 13:44
  So it sounds like you're pulling up the
• 13:45
  ad account and you're saying, okay,
• 13:47
  there's, there's two routes that people
• 13:48
  typically go and we try to avoid going
• 13:50
  those routes, but it's like, we're
• 13:50
  looking for evidence is something that's
• 13:52
  working in here, winning desires, like
• 13:54
  something specifically that you said.
• 13:56
  And you say oftentimes people will either
• 13:59
  try to differentiate too quickly away
• 14:00
  from that thing or it's like, okay, let's
• 14:03
  say they have a UGC video that's cutting
• 14:06
  every couple of seconds.
• 14:07
  It's like, oh, that's working.
• 14:08
  Or it's, it worked historically.
• 14:09
  And then everybody just tries to reprint
• 14:11
  the same thing, but feel
• 14:12
  free to speak to any of that.
• 14:13
  But like, what are you,
• 14:14
  what are you doing differently?
• 14:16
  Yeah.
• 14:16
  So I think it's just like being like,
• 14:17
  okay, what kind of the matching the
• 14:19
  content there'll be no consumers are
• 14:21
  watching to the ads that we're making.
• 14:24
  Like, and I know maybe that sounds
• 14:26
  oversimplified, but that's
• 14:27
  how we found the app stuff.
• 14:29
  I was like, oh wait, there's these TikTok
• 14:31
  videos and I don't see
• 14:33
  them in any ad account.
• 14:34
  So like, why don't we just do that?
• 14:36
  Like, and I know that sounds really
• 14:37
  simple is because everything we do, we
• 14:38
  try to keep like really simple.
• 14:40
  Like I was just like, Oh, maybe like all
• 14:43
  these B roll cuts and stuff like seems a
• 14:45
  bit weird and seems really ad like.
• 14:47
  So like, maybe let's just not do it.
• 14:49
  And that's not to say it doesn't work.
• 14:50
  And like, obviously mashups and stuff
• 14:51
  still do work really well.
• 14:53
  But like, I think a lot of agencies like
• 14:58
  we're crushing with those types of ads.
• 15:00
  Maybe like, I don't know, if I was one
• 15:02
  super involved and they just kind of
• 15:03
  stuck to that, that playbook.
• 15:06
  So I was just like, well, okay, like
• 15:07
  super simple, do something different.
• 15:09
  Uh, and I think a lot of that comes from
• 15:11
  processes being like, we're trying to be
• 15:13
  as up to date with organic content as
• 15:15
  possible and try to pivot
• 15:17
  with it as quick as possible.
• 15:18
  Like I'd ask all my
• 15:19
  strats on a weekly basis.
• 15:21
  Tell me something you've noticed about
• 15:22
  the organic feed recently.
• 15:23
  What's changed?
• 15:24
  Is anything changing?
• 15:25
  Do we have to pivot next week?
• 15:27
  Because that's the problem is like, it
• 15:29
  all goes so fast that like
• 15:31
  you have to keep up with it.
• 15:33
  Um, but then I guess the other big thing
• 15:36
  that we do process wise
• 15:37
  is just manual research.
• 15:39
  Like that's like the one thing that I
• 15:40
  kind of feel is weird that people try and
• 15:42
  AI a five is like, why don't
• 15:45
  you just get AI to write it?
• 15:46
  And then you just do the
• 15:47
  research to not like, I don't know.
• 15:49
  But people try and like
• 15:50
  just try and do it all.
• 15:51
  But I'm like, how do you know if the AI
• 15:53
  is using the words that your customers
• 15:55
  are using that is talking about the
• 15:56
  experience that customers experienced?
• 15:58
  Like I find it really, it struggles a lot
• 16:01
  to pull the stories as well.
• 16:02
  Cause that's often what we'll do as well.
• 16:03
  We'll just go, okay, cool.
• 16:04
  There's a winning desire.
• 16:05
  Let's go find a story that revolves
• 16:07
  around that on Reddit and then just go
• 16:09
  put it in the ad account and just retell
• 16:10
  it and like soft introduce our product.
• 16:12
  And then it backs like, and I think.
• 16:15
  If that was like the two core things
• 16:17
  people could take away from like the
• 16:19
  processes that we use, it's like
• 16:21
  relentlessly study organic content and
• 16:24
  just manual research.
• 16:26
  That's it.
• 16:27
  And how does like you said that you asked
• 16:31
  your strategist, like, what does the
• 16:32
  organic feed look like?
• 16:33
  And how is it changing?
• 16:34
  Um, is there anything like you you're
• 16:37
  doing process wise, like as part of the
• 16:38
  research or like are you guys saving a
• 16:41
  weekly kind of recap of what's popping up
• 16:43
  in the organic feed?
• 16:44
  Like, how are you actually doing it?
• 16:45
  Or are you just pulling
• 16:46
  up TikTok and scrolling?
• 16:47
  I want to give you one quick example for
• 16:48
  this, where I think like we have a client
• 16:49
  that does this extremely well.
• 16:50
  He's like perfectly curated
• 16:52
  his feed to be his customer.
• 16:55
  It's like, he
• 16:55
  probably is his own customer.
• 16:57
  So that certainly helps, but like he's
• 16:58
  forwarding examples.
• 16:59
  It's like, oh, okay, there's that
• 17:00
  carousel format on Instagram.
• 17:02
  That's really popping off right now.
• 17:03
  Like he's forwarding me a ton of those.
• 17:05
  Uh, and like, that's very clear or like
• 17:07
  he sends me a video and it's kind of got,
• 17:09
  um, you know, like the AI gen, uh,
• 17:13
  there's a bunch of AI gen stuff.
• 17:14
  It's like popping off right now.
• 17:15
  It's like, oh, okay.
• 17:16
  Like you are the customer and you've
• 17:18
  perfectly curated your feed for this.
• 17:19
  And so like he forwards it.
• 17:20
  It's like, I, we just need to recreate
• 17:22
  that basically swap it for his product
• 17:24
  because like that's
• 17:25
  what they're consuming.
• 17:26
  Um, and that's something that I've, I've
• 17:27
  been thinking a lot about recently is
• 17:29
  just trying to match the format.
• 17:32
  Cause you already have like to your
• 17:32
  point, it's like you have
• 17:33
  the messaging that's working.
• 17:34
  You just think the format you need to
• 17:36
  figure diversify the formats.
• 17:37
  So anyways, um, long way to say like,
• 17:39
  what, what, like, how are
• 17:40
  you staying on top of it?
• 17:41
  Just doom scrolling or.
• 17:43
  Oh yeah.
• 17:43
  Oh, like I am a chronic
• 17:45
  scroller like too much.
• 17:46
  So, but like, yeah, like with that AI
• 17:49
  stuff, it was just like, okay, cool.
• 17:50
  I found the accounts that were posting
• 17:52
  all this like AI
• 17:53
  slope as I like called it.
• 17:54
  I mean, it was whatever.
• 17:56
  Uh, and I found all the accounts that are
• 17:57
  pumping out good stuff that literally
• 17:59
  just spam sending it to my team.
• 18:01
  It was just like, we're gonna create
• 18:01
  this, this, this, this, this, this.
• 18:03
  And like a lot of them popped off because
• 18:05
  it was just like the same day I sent it,
• 18:08
  like free, like the script would be done
• 18:10
  then free four days
• 18:10
  later, the app was made.
• 18:11
  You know what I mean?
• 18:12
  So it was just like all
• 18:13
  about turnaround time.
• 18:14
  I'm not looking at like necessarily, I
• 18:16
  mean, maybe I should again now, but I'm
• 18:17
  not really looking at foreplay or like,
• 18:19
  you know, and
• 18:20
  necessarily like the ads library.
• 18:22
  I'm just like, what is the
• 18:23
  content people are making?
• 18:25
  And like, I trust that we can direct,
• 18:27
  responsibly because we stick to the
• 18:30
  fundamentals of that.
• 18:31
  So it should be, it should work.
• 18:33
  You know what I mean?
• 18:34
  And I mean, it's, it's interesting.
• 18:36
  Cause it's like your, I think a lot of
• 18:38
  people go and look, do creative research
• 18:40
  and they're, they're
• 18:40
  looking at on foreplay.
• 18:41
  They're looking at what's being done.
• 18:43
  And what you're doing is you're looking
• 18:45
  outside of that and saying what's
• 18:46
  happening now that the algorithms seem to
• 18:49
  be going off of and what's happening that
• 18:50
  people are utilizing.
• 18:52
  That's a format.
• 18:53
  And you're jumping on
• 18:53
  that as quickly as you can.
• 18:55
  I think that's a massive
• 18:56
  unlock for a lot of people.
• 18:58
  One is I think this, this simplicity, you
• 19:01
  do talk about simplicity, but I know that
• 19:03
  your research process isn't super simple,
• 19:07
  although it's quite deep.
• 19:09
  Yeah.
• 19:09
  Like the, you know, and we're not just
• 19:11
  talking about reading Reddit reviews or
• 19:13
  reading trust pilot or I mean, that's
• 19:15
  part of it, but really what you're
• 19:17
  trying, really what you guys do is the
• 19:19
  research of the pain points and the
• 19:21
  issues and correct me if I'm wrong.
• 19:23
  But the pain points and the issues, and
• 19:25
  then you're scripting it into a thing
• 19:29
  that's going to keep the
• 19:29
  attention the whole time.
• 19:31
  I think that's one thing that the ads
• 19:32
  that you guys create, like their watch
• 19:34
  times are absurd on them.
• 19:36
  Right.
• 19:36
  And some of these are like, some of the
• 19:37
  examples you showed, Lisbon
• 19:38
  are like two, three minutes long.
• 19:41
  Right.
• 19:42
  And so, but the watch times are like,
• 19:43
  they're almost watching the whole thing
• 19:45
  because it's from a third
• 19:46
  party page that people don't know.
• 19:48
  Talking about a toothbrush, but there's a
• 19:49
  story or a narrative
• 19:51
  that goes through it.
• 19:52
  And so can you talk about what else you
• 19:54
  guys do in terms of research?
• 19:55
  Cause I think that's a
• 19:55
  really interesting topic.
• 19:56
  All right, friends, quick break.
• 19:58
  This episode is brought to you by
• 19:59
  Northbeam, the marketing attribution
• 20:01
  platform that we love
• 20:03
  over here at the pod.
• 20:04
  And if you're a
• 20:04
  marketer, you probably agree.
• 20:06
  Incrementality testing is broken.
• 20:08
  Tests require a ton of labor,
• 20:10
  spreadsheets, statistical reference,
• 20:12
  designing tests is slow and error prone.
• 20:15
  Once the tests are running, you have to
• 20:17
  monitor them daily in
• 20:18
  case anything happens.
• 20:20
  If you don't, a test could blow through
• 20:21
  thousands of dollars
• 20:23
  while being totally useless.
• 20:25
  And how are you supposed to know what the
• 20:26
  test is in the first place and when
• 20:28
  there's a million factors that make
• 20:30
  incrementality testing really difficult.
• 20:32
  But good news, our friends at Northbeam
• 20:33
  have completely changed the game.
• 20:35
  They fixed incrementality.
• 20:37
  Only Northbeam incrementality automates
• 20:39
  your incrementality test design and
• 20:40
  monitoring while protecting you from the
• 20:42
  major mistakes that
• 20:43
  plague incrementality testing.
• 20:46
  Northbeam builds tests using your own MTA
• 20:48
  data, launches them directly in ad
• 20:50
  platforms and
• 20:51
  automatically monitors them throughout.
• 20:53
  If something threatens validity, you're
• 20:56
  alerted before it ruins the result.
• 20:59
  With Northbeam, you can launch tests in
• 21:00
  platform with a single click inside
• 21:02
  Northbeam, saving you tons of time and
• 21:04
  reducing any chance of errors.
• 21:07
  And when the test concludes, results flow
• 21:10
  straight into your MTA, meaning you can
• 21:12
  easily see results
• 21:13
  alongside the rest of your data.
• 21:15
  This is automated and accurate testing so
• 21:17
  you and your team can
• 21:19
  spend with confidence.
• 21:21
  Incrementality was broken.
• 21:23
  Northbeam.
• 21:24
  And so can you talk about what else you
• 21:26
  guys do in terms of research?
• 21:27
  Because I think that's a
• 21:28
  really interesting topic.
• 21:30
  Yeah, for sure.
• 21:31
  I mean, like we kind of like
• 21:32
  predominantly looking for, I don't know,
• 21:35
  it always changes because
• 21:36
  that's the problem as well.
• 21:37
  I'm always changing the research process.
• 21:39
  Like, you know, I try and like add stuff,
• 21:41
  take stuff away all the time just because
• 21:44
  I don't know, never perfect science.
• 21:46
  But like we're just like a lot of times
• 21:47
  we're just looking for like one, the
• 21:49
  desires of like the people in the market.
• 21:51
  Like what do they want?
• 21:52
  Looking for their experiences as well.
• 21:55
  Looking for their
• 21:55
  emotions, their behaviors.
• 21:58
  And they're saying, but basically a lot
• 21:59
  of it I followed from like, I don't know
• 22:01
  if you guys know the Evolve boys, like
• 22:03
  they had a really good
• 22:04
  thing on like personas.
• 22:05
  So like they had a couple of things that
• 22:06
  they had like built on
• 22:07
  top of what I was doing.
• 22:08
  And I just like swiped some of that over.
• 22:11
  I don't know where
• 22:12
  like I learned about it.
• 22:13
  But like, yeah, I think they had like
• 22:15
  some good stuff about that.
• 22:17
  And it's just like you got to really get
• 22:20
  like deep on that on that stuff because
• 22:23
  again, it's like you can't write to those
• 22:26
  like experiences or those pain points if
• 22:28
  you don't really know
• 22:30
  that that's happening.
• 22:31
  Like you're going to lose them at some
• 22:32
  point if you're not kind of echoing what
• 22:36
  they're thinking about or
• 22:37
  what they're experiencing.
• 22:38
  Like I can't I can't remember who who
• 22:40
  said it was it like
• 22:41
  Robert Collier or something?
• 22:42
  He said, yeah, they're like enter the
• 22:43
  conversation that's
• 22:44
  happening in the prospect's mind.
• 22:45
  I don't know.
• 22:46
  Those old old geezers.
• 22:49
  So like that's that's kind of really it
• 22:50
  and then to find the story to like plug
• 22:52
  that into because that's why I think a
• 22:53
  lot of people miss as well.
• 22:54
  There's like no one's
• 22:55
  telling stories anymore.
• 22:56
  I don't I don't really get why.
• 22:58
  Like I thought that's kind of what the
• 23:00
  core of advertising was.
• 23:02
  You know what I mean?
• 23:02
  Like it's like these three reasons why
• 23:04
  which obviously can work.
• 23:05
  Like that's not telling a story.
• 23:07
  You know what I mean?
• 23:07
  Like and I think when we look at the ads,
• 23:10
  whether it be a I slop because we had
• 23:11
  like a lot of a I slop that
• 23:12
  was like crushing as well.
• 23:14
  And it just like that was like the big
• 23:19
  thing when I see the winners is just if
• 23:22
  you can't find the story
• 23:23
  then like I don't know.
• 23:25
  You're going to have a
• 23:26
  tough time making ads at scale.
• 23:27
  Yeah, there's a narrative
• 23:28
  that ties it all together.
• 23:30
  I mean, you know, I think it's it's
• 23:31
  interesting on the storytelling side and
• 23:33
  I agree with you a lot of it is people
• 23:35
  have come from the age of Internet
• 23:37
  advertising of like why do
• 23:39
  you need this get it now?
• 23:41
  It's great.
• 23:41
  You know, and I mean, that's even a
• 23:42
  development from where we used to be.
• 23:43
  I mean, when I started doing Facebook
• 23:45
  advertising, you know, you would put a
• 23:47
  photo of a shirt on a white background
• 23:50
  and then you could make it four row as or
• 23:51
  10 row as or you know
• 23:53
  what I mean on that.
• 23:53
  Like I remember, you know, and so my my
• 23:56
  my point is is that I think the
• 23:58
  storytelling piece is it's getting back
• 24:00
  to what truly is native to to marketing.
• 24:05
  And I think it's you're you're helping
• 24:07
  the research that you
• 24:08
  guys are doing in the world.
• 24:09
  And I think it's you're you're helping the research that you guys are doing as
• 24:09
  part of that of like, how do
• 24:10
  we tell a story out of this?
• 24:11
  And are you also like resourcing your
• 24:14
  team in terms of books that they're
• 24:17
  reading or, you know, are they also like
• 24:21
  are you hiring people that used to be
• 24:22
  playwrights or like, how are you getting
• 24:24
  them to this level of because I think a
• 24:26
  lot of people that do creative strategy
• 24:28
  start from the media
• 24:29
  buying perspective, right?
• 24:31
  And they just think about results versus
• 24:33
  I think you've brought in a lot of
• 24:34
  creative people that like just happen to
• 24:37
  work in D to C basically.
• 24:40
  Yeah, so I like head of performance. I
• 24:42
  don't even know how she's so good at
• 24:44
  storytelling, man. She
• 24:44
  doesn't even know how she's so good.
• 24:46
  Like I asked, I was like, where'd you
• 24:47
  learn all this stuff?
• 24:48
  Because obviously I said at the event,
• 24:50
  like, you know, I like read
• 24:52
  a lot about screenwriting.
• 24:53
  I got like really into that because it
• 24:55
  was just like I thought about like every
• 24:56
  single bit of content that we like
• 24:57
  consume and get really invested in is a
• 25:00
  story in some sense, whether it be like
• 25:02
  the news, politics, like whatever it is,
• 25:04
  you get like really sucked in.
• 25:05
  So I was like, OK, maybe I should like
• 25:07
  learn a bit about that.
• 25:09
  But the like I had a performance to like
• 25:12
  helps teach a lot of the other people.
• 25:14
  I'll be honest with you guys, I have no
• 25:16
  idea where she learned it.
• 25:16
  Maybe it was just like innate. But yeah,
• 25:19
  I mean, in terms of learning resources,
• 25:21
  we get people to do courses and I'll pay
• 25:24
  people if they do a course and they show
• 25:26
  me they've done it like they read a book
• 25:29
  again, I'll pay them.
• 25:29
  And you can decide on like whatever
• 25:31
  bounty you want for your staff.
• 25:33
  So I'm not going to give like recommended
• 25:34
  recommendations on that.
• 25:36
  But yeah, I think a lot of these people
• 25:39
  didn't have a they had a
• 25:40
  UGC background, interestingly.
• 25:42
  So I think we've got like free crit
• 25:44
  strats that had a UGC background.
• 25:47
  I had a media buying background.
• 25:48
  And then another guy we
• 25:49
  have has a media background.
• 25:51
  So I guess maybe from like the time
• 25:53
  working in like create a content, they've
• 25:55
  learned like storytelling and they've
• 25:58
  been around scripting quite a bit.
• 26:00
  Whereas like I was never really involved
• 26:02
  in that when I was just
• 26:02
  like clicking buttons.
• 26:03
  You know what I mean? Yeah. So like they
• 26:04
  can especially on the creator side, like
• 26:06
  they also know what it's like to be a
• 26:08
  creator shooting this content.
• 26:09
  Like they can they know how what what
• 26:11
  should be scripted versus what should be
• 26:13
  vibes in the moment and all that. Right.
• 26:17
  Yeah, exactly. And I think that's what
• 26:19
  like everyone should get on there.
• 26:20
  I mean, obviously, I've said before that
• 26:22
  I think the best creative strats are from
• 26:25
  from media buying background.
• 26:26
  That's just completely biased
• 26:27
  because of where I came from.
• 26:29
  So not sure if that's a
• 26:30
  hill I want to die on.
• 26:32
  But like I think everyone in the creative
• 26:33
  team, like agencies, brands, they should
• 26:36
  look at like pulling
• 26:36
  people from different places
• 26:38
  because they're going to have different
• 26:39
  experiences and different ways to look
• 26:40
  at, you know, script writing and creating
• 26:43
  ads, like whatever it is.
• 26:45
  And I think to Andrew's point, you know,
• 26:47
  maybe just like focused on results, you
• 26:49
  know, maybe these other
• 26:49
  people want to do other stuff.
• 26:51
  Again, I don't know. But that was
• 26:52
  something that was like
• 26:53
  pretty important to me.
• 26:54
  It was just like, how can we have like
• 26:55
  diverse backgrounds coming
• 26:57
  in to like create a strategy?
• 26:59
  Yeah. So you're doing all
• 27:00
  this research upfront, right?
• 27:03
  Which makes sense. But it's yeah.
• 27:04
  Every done every day as well.
• 27:07
  Like I always just like tell me they keep
• 27:09
  telling me new stuff about the market,
• 27:13
  the consumers, because like new stuff is
• 27:15
  happening to them every day as well.
• 27:16
  Like, you know, who
• 27:17
  knows what's changing?
• 27:18
  Like and I think like a lot of agencies,
• 27:21
  they'll go for the two weeks or like
• 27:22
  onboarding and then that's
• 27:24
  just research done, right?
• 27:26
  They decide, cool. Done it.
• 27:28
  But like, no, I'm like, no, we do this.
• 27:29
  Do this every day.
• 27:31
  So we're trying to work
• 27:32
  out like workflows to that.
• 27:35
  And then I guess other like researching
• 27:37
  stuff, if I want to like feel like I'm
• 27:39
  dropping some game is Kalo data.
• 27:42
  All the drop shipping guys
• 27:43
  and girls will know about it.
• 27:44
  But like that's been a favorite of mine
• 27:46
  for a long time, because you can see all
• 27:47
  the TikTok shop affiliates on that and
• 27:49
  you can learn how
• 27:50
  they're telling stories,
• 27:50
  new trends that are coming out there
• 27:52
  because like those guys are going to, you
• 27:54
  know, they're they're
• 27:56
  putting in work for their money.
• 27:57
  You know what I mean? They're like,
• 27:58
  they're slogging it day
• 27:59
  in, day out, making content.
• 28:01
  So if they're like popping off on there,
• 28:02
  like, you know,
• 28:03
  they're doing something well.
• 28:04
  So like there's a lot of formats that
• 28:05
  we've done where we've just like ripped
• 28:06
  off Kalo data and it's
• 28:07
  just like popped off.
• 28:08
  But you've got to be quick as well,
• 28:09
  because like obviously people start
• 28:11
  realizing that like you start seeing in
• 28:12
  their like accounts.
• 28:14
  Like there's a Deodorant brand like Carp
• 28:16
  Carp Carpe, whatever they're called.
• 28:18
  They're like really good at that.
• 28:19
  Like I saw some of their eyes and I was
• 28:20
  like, oh, yeah, you're
• 28:21
  just pulling from Kalo data.
• 28:22
  So you guys are definitely ripping.
• 28:24
  Yeah, that's funny.
• 28:25
  It's like I mean, everybody there's
• 28:27
  there's a lot of people on Twitter who
• 28:28
  say like affiliates are kind of like the
• 28:29
  OGs in general because you have to like
• 28:31
  build margin into you have to you.
• 28:33
  If you're not hitting your CPA, you're
• 28:34
  not you have no margin to use.
• 28:36
  They just burned all your money.
• 28:38
  Like that is like the new version of that
• 28:40
  is literally TikTok shop.
• 28:41
  Now the downside is
• 28:43
  your video didn't hit.
• 28:44
  And so maybe there's a
• 28:44
  little less skin in the game.
• 28:45
  But but yeah, that's like if they want to
• 28:47
  if they want to eat next month, they got
• 28:48
  to they got to make a barrier.
• 28:50
  So I don't know why everyone's trying to
• 28:51
  copy these like DTC darlings.
• 28:53
  I'm not no go look at these fucking guys
• 28:54
  who are slogging like
• 28:55
  50 videos a day or so.
• 28:57
  Like yeah, the guys that
• 28:58
  you want to learn from.
• 29:00
  It's so funny.
• 29:01
  There's I see golly golly.
• 29:03
  I think it's going to be there like one
• 29:04
  of the shops they're ripping.
• 29:06
  They're ripping, you know, crazy, crazy
• 29:08
  volume and tons of gnarly discounts.
• 29:10
  But like they're they're
• 29:11
  pretty big in retail as well.
• 29:12
  But it's like you I get I'm sure they
• 29:14
  have much more than this.
• 29:15
  Like I always get the affiliate content
• 29:17
  that like kind of tells the same story.
• 29:19
  It's like somebody dumping something or
• 29:21
  some kind of ingredient
• 29:22
  that's like you take this.
• 29:24
  But like whatever it is back and forth.
• 29:26
  But it's like all the they must have just
• 29:28
  like sent this to all
• 29:29
  their creators like cool.
• 29:30
  Do a different version of this like use
• 29:31
  different use different things like pound
• 29:33
  different colored sand,
• 29:35
  dump water and different
• 29:36
  colored water or whatever.
• 29:37
  And ultimately what it does is it makes
• 29:39
  it look like this is what's in your you
• 29:40
  took all these things.
• 29:41
  That's what's in your body now.
• 29:43
  Why don't you just take this instead?
• 29:45
  This is really interesting positioning.
• 29:46
  Yeah, they do it with like the money and
• 29:49
  then they're like, oh, and
• 29:49
  it would cost you this much.
• 29:51
  But then you can do this. Yeah.
• 29:53
  And that's why I saw like the origin
• 29:55
  brand they like were copying like that.
• 29:56
  I even know when it was.
• 29:58
  But like I think back when we started the
• 30:00
  agency and that one's been like going
• 30:02
  going strong on take
• 30:02
  top shop for a while.
• 30:04
  But I think what they do is they will
• 30:05
  just like rip each other.
• 30:06
  You know what I mean? Like as soon as
• 30:07
  they see one pop off,
• 30:07
  they then rip each other.
• 30:09
  And that was kind of like as well.
• 30:11
  I think Andrew said like innovation.
• 30:15
  I'd almost like push back and say like I
• 30:17
  don't innovate anything.
• 30:18
  I just like to steal all the stuff I see
• 30:21
  is like working well around me.
• 30:23
  And I think maybe this is
• 30:25
  like a niche like UK reference.
• 30:26
  But a lot of people I do and like really
• 30:29
  this like probably believe to me, it's
• 30:30
  like I was like studying YouTubers again.
• 30:33
  And there's this like UK
• 30:34
  guy called KSI or whatever.
• 30:37
  I don't like, you know, he's like
• 30:39
  involved in assignment.
• 30:39
  So whether it's like UK thing by
• 30:41
  streaming, you guys might know of him.
• 30:43
  But I don't like watching, but I kept
• 30:44
  seeing like all this
• 30:45
  stuff pop up in my home feed.
• 30:47
  And it was just him ripping formats of
• 30:49
  people to come up with this
• 30:50
  on like such a huge volume.
• 30:52
  I was like, oh yeah, he's not taking
• 30:53
  anything that hasn't
• 30:54
  already proven his work.
• 30:55
  And he's just like taking and just like
• 30:57
  pushing it back out.
• 30:58
  You know what I mean?
• 30:59
  And like he's now getting
• 31:00
  like millions of views again.
• 31:02
  And I was just like, yeah, that's
• 31:04
  probably just like what you should do.
• 31:05
  Those that are really successful, you
• 31:07
  know, Elon mustn't
• 31:08
  invent the electric car.
• 31:09
  You know what I'm saying?
• 31:10
  It's so and like those
• 31:12
  that are truly successful.
• 31:13
  It's many times like a rare exception of
• 31:16
  like Rolex roughly
• 31:17
  invented the wristwatch.
• 31:19
  But other than that, like that's one of
• 31:20
  the only exceptions in history.
• 31:22
  I think of like somebody that's truly a
• 31:24
  new brand new thing.
• 31:25
  A lot of times those that are successful.
• 31:26
  It's like they've iterated on an idea
• 31:28
  that exists and they've
• 31:29
  figured out how to make it popular.
• 31:30
  Just clearly what you're doing.
• 31:32
  I have a specific question about ad
• 31:34
  creatives, which is everybody talks about
• 31:36
  like the first three seconds.
• 31:38
  How important is that to you?
• 31:41
  And what do you try to
• 31:42
  do in that period of time?
• 31:44
  Yeah, I'd say it's like
• 31:45
  pretty important, right?
• 31:47
  Like I don't get anything like too
• 31:49
  controversial to say about that one.
• 31:51
  Like, yeah, no, super, super important.
• 31:53
  Yeah, I mean with that, like a lot of
• 31:55
  times we're like, you know, really trying
• 31:57
  to like qualify people.
• 31:59
  You know, like really trying
• 32:00
  to show what the promise is.
• 32:01
  And like we kind of think about it in
• 32:02
  like three ways is like you've got a text
• 32:04
  hook, you've got a visual hook, you've
• 32:06
  got like an audio hook.
• 32:08
  I think people would be
• 32:09
  surprised how good a hook, right?
• 32:11
  Like visually can be like just look like
• 32:12
  a person, like just the person.
• 32:14
  They don't have to be like whether
• 32:15
  they're holding product or
• 32:16
  just whatever random thing.
• 32:17
  Like I think, you know, everyone's always
• 32:19
  trying to do this crazy visual stuff,
• 32:20
  which again, you should also do.
• 32:22
  But like, you know, just
• 32:23
  keeping it super simple.
• 32:25
  But like, yeah, oftentimes we're trying
• 32:26
  to like open a loop like
• 32:28
  what the promise could be.
• 32:29
  And like, you know, we've opened the loop
• 32:31
  like giving people to keep watching,
• 32:33
  reason to keep watching.
• 32:34
  And then trying to like
• 32:34
  qualify people as well.
• 32:35
  Like sometimes we're like ladies over 50.
• 32:37
  Do, do, do, do, do, do.
• 32:39
  You know, just because like we're not
• 32:41
  trying to talk to anyone else.
• 32:42
  So we're just like qualifying the
• 32:43
  audience that we want.
• 32:44
  Can you, can you give this, this might
• 32:47
  be, I mean, you might have a ton of like
• 32:50
  library in your brain
• 32:51
  on the open loop stuff.
• 32:52
  But like, I think I'm really fascinated
• 32:54
  by like the open loop concept.
• 32:55
  Can you give an example of like what that
• 32:57
  means or just like dig into that for a
• 32:59
  couple more seconds?
• 33:00
  I'm just really, really
• 33:01
  fascinated by the open loop.
• 33:03
  Yeah, so you've got to
• 33:04
  kind of like promise a payoff.
• 33:06
  And this is again, I like, you know, I
• 33:07
  keep saying promise, but like I think
• 33:09
  it's so important to like give a promise
• 33:10
  of the benefit,
• 33:11
  promise some kind of payoff.
• 33:12
  That just so you open it, so someone goes
• 33:14
  like, well, I need a resolution to that.
• 33:15
  You know what I mean?
• 33:17
  So like, I guess like that's the simplest
• 33:19
  way to explain an open loop.
• 33:20
  It's like you're
• 33:21
  promising some kind of payoff.
• 33:22
  Someone's like, I need to
• 33:23
  find out the reason for this.
• 33:26
  Like there was like a hook that we had.
• 33:28
  I can't even remember what it was.
• 33:31
  That's really bad.
• 33:31
  I mean, my brain's gone blank.
• 33:33
  It was something like, you know, if
• 33:34
  you're over this age, you
• 33:36
  should never do this or whatever.
• 33:38
  So we're like, there's like
• 33:39
  an intuition gap in there.
• 33:40
  You know what I mean?
• 33:41
  And it's like, well, okay, now I need to
• 33:43
  figure out why is I shouldn't do that.
• 33:45
  Clearly, I don't know something.
• 33:46
  So then I've got to like watch.
• 33:48
  But yeah, no, it was like,
• 33:49
  don't make the same mistake I did.
• 33:51
  And it had like a 73%
• 33:52
  hook rate or something.
• 33:54
  And it was like, to then talking about
• 33:56
  this common thing that people do and like
• 33:59
  why you should actually
• 33:59
  never do it.
• 34:00
  So we explain the information gap and
• 34:01
  it's like getting people to that aha
• 34:03
  moment, which is like the proof.
• 34:06
  And then yeah, that's
• 34:08
  kind of the way I look at it.
• 34:09
  I think people try and
• 34:09
  like overcomplicate it.
• 34:10
  Like you hear open loop and it sounds
• 34:12
  like this big like maybe scary thing.
• 34:15
  I don't know.
• 34:15
  I definitely had this thing in my head
• 34:17
  where it took me a sec to get over it
• 34:18
  like a couple of years ago.
• 34:21
  But it is just promising a payoff and
• 34:22
  giving but you also do
• 34:24
  have to give that payoff.
• 34:25
  If you don't do that,
• 34:26
  people be pretty pissed.
• 34:27
  You're going to like you're
• 34:28
  not going to get purchases.
• 34:29
  Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because
• 34:31
  like I think what a lot of people do is
• 34:33
  talking a lot of people
• 34:35
  say I need creative diversity and I'm
• 34:38
  going to go into finding new personas
• 34:40
  based on research and then
• 34:41
  I'm going to develop creatives that are
• 34:44
  speaking to those particular people and
• 34:46
  the landing pages are
• 34:47
  going to match that whole thing, which I
• 34:48
  don't think is wrong.
• 34:50
  And I certainly think you also do that.
• 34:53
  I think the difference that you're doing
• 34:54
  is you're layering in.
• 34:57
  Whitelisting third-party pages, which
• 34:59
  gives it a different
• 35:00
  level of credibility.
• 35:01
  It's not from the brand.
• 35:02
  You're layering in storytelling and true
• 35:05
  long format like hooks that are very
• 35:08
  dialed in to exactly what
• 35:10
  you're trying to get them across on and
• 35:12
  talking about it, you know, different
• 35:14
  issues and you're hooking
• 35:16
  with the story and the actual like, yeah,
• 35:18
  not just marketing actually like a
• 35:20
  journey that you're taking
• 35:21
  them through of the different promises.
• 35:23
  And then I think you're figuring out
• 35:28
  other pain points as the time goes on
• 35:30
  that you can focus on and
• 35:32
  then hone in on and
• 35:33
  like talk about those.
• 35:35
  And so it's not just the we need to
• 35:39
  launch an ad for socks to snowboarders
• 35:41
  now and like we need to do
• 35:42
  snowboarding type shit.
• 35:43
  It's like, what are we
• 35:45
  going to talk about to them?
• 35:46
  What's a story that we're going to tell?
• 35:48
  That's that's a real difference, right?
• 35:50
  I think because there's been so much talk
• 35:52
  on consumer psychology that we all hear
• 35:55
  that's very much like, oh,
• 35:57
  this person, you know, they this is the
• 36:00
  way that you can you can
• 36:02
  angle with, you know, problems or,
• 36:05
  you know, there's always
• 36:07
  different levels that we go through.
• 36:08
  Right.
• 36:09
  There's an episode that came out with
• 36:10
  Sarah Levenger and she goes through a lot
• 36:12
  of those and it's crazy.
• 36:13
  Like it's really overwhelming when you
• 36:14
  start to think about that.
• 36:16
  And but in reality, I think so much of
• 36:18
  the core of it is like, what are you even
• 36:19
  telling these people?
• 36:20
  Like what's your, you know, so I think
• 36:22
  that's really interesting, Harry.
• 36:23
  And I think there's a reason that you've
• 36:24
  been successful because yeah, you're
• 36:27
  building it in a different way.
• 36:29
  Yeah, no, I actually list their episode
• 36:31
  like the episode of great.
• 36:34
  But I think with all those like, you
• 36:35
  know, what do you call them like
• 36:36
  heuristics and stuff
• 36:37
  like that, like they're
• 36:38
  really good, but sometimes I'm not as
• 36:41
  smart as Sarah, you know, I
• 36:42
  mean, so that's what I mean.
• 36:43
  That's why I've got to keep it simple
• 36:44
  where I'm like a promise proof and
• 36:46
  there's no confusion.
• 36:47
  You know, I'm not even smart enough to
• 36:48
  come up with another pee for that.
• 36:50
  So it's just like I got the solution.
• 36:52
  I got it.
• 36:53
  I'm going to puzzling puzzling throw in
• 36:56
  puzzling and you're good.
• 36:57
  I know it's kind of
• 36:58
  it's kind of the opposite.
• 36:59
  So say it the whole say the whole thing
• 37:01
  again, Brad promise proof puzzling, which
• 37:03
  is not like is it puzzling would
• 37:05
  make more sense because like you don't
• 37:06
  want it to actually be puzzling but we
• 37:08
  can workshop it a little bit more.
• 37:09
  But I think puzzling might be might be
• 37:10
  the winner and connected puzzling.
• 37:13
  There you go.
• 37:14
  Nice.
• 37:15
  Nice.
• 37:15
  I'm with it.
• 37:16
  I'm with it.
• 37:17
  I'm a little bit confused now.
• 37:18
  So maybe we're like, yeah, puzzling.
• 37:21
  See my brain can't but no, I think that's
• 37:24
  the thing is like I think a lot of people
• 37:27
  know heuristics and stuff like that are
• 37:28
  great and I try and use
• 37:30
  them as much as possible.
• 37:31
  But I also think sometimes
• 37:33
  they're maybe for slightly more.
• 37:36
  I don't know.
• 37:38
  No, yeah, I think that's
• 37:39
  for more advanced people.
• 37:40
  You know, I mean like, you know,
• 37:42
  think about the heuristics do that stuff
• 37:44
  but when you actually have like a bit
• 37:45
  more of an understanding on the
• 37:46
  fundamentals of advertising and just like
• 37:49
  strip it back where I feel like a lot of
• 37:51
  people are maybe trying to go from like
• 37:54
  here and then jump all
• 37:55
  the way over to here.
• 37:57
  And then and then maybe we're like more
• 38:00
  AI and stuff like that.
• 38:01
  Like they're kind of forgetting these
• 38:02
  parts here that maybe should be done
• 38:03
  manually that like if you just put in
• 38:05
  that 10% extra effort, you're going to
• 38:07
  make some bangers like, you know, the
• 38:09
  amount of times again
• 38:11
  going back to what's the
• 38:12
  difference between a 10,000 per day spend
• 38:16
  ad and a 500 at the start of
• 38:19
  that as well from creative.
• 38:20
  It's just the research like if you
• 38:22
  actually go back and look at that and be
• 38:23
  like, is that a desire that an audience
• 38:25
  gives a shit about you
• 38:25
  probably going to go no, maybe not.
• 38:28
  Is it like the messaging with the image
• 38:30
  for safety than static?
• 38:32
  Is it congruent?
• 38:32
  Is it like pointing to that desire?
• 38:34
  Is there enough proof and you're probably
• 38:35
  going to go no, I don't know if there is.
• 38:37
  Do you know what I mean?
• 38:38
  Oh, am I using the
• 38:39
  words that my audience uses?
• 38:41
  No, maybe not like, you know, Claude's
• 38:43
  just kind of like spat out saying that
• 38:45
  it's like the amount of times as well you
• 38:46
  will get called to write something from
• 38:47
  like a review and then
• 38:48
  you ask it is this verbatim?
• 38:50
  It goes, oh, no, sorry, you're right.
• 38:51
  It's not like even if you tell it to do
• 38:53
  verbatim, it's insane.
• 38:54
  So I think it goes back to that and like
• 38:57
  a lot of people try and jump to this
• 38:59
  other stuff and you just
• 39:00
  focus on the fundamentals.
• 39:02
  You're going to win because I don't know
• 39:04
  if everyone's forgetting them or I don't
• 39:06
  want to know because that
• 39:07
  sounds like I'm calling people out.
• 39:08
  I'm like not but I think we're such a
• 39:10
  young agency to be kind of coming into
• 39:12
  this counts and competing like we are.
• 39:14
  It only comes down to the fundamentals.
• 39:15
  That's just all we do is
• 39:17
  basics and do as much as possible.
• 39:20
  Yeah, well, it has to be has to be more
• 39:21
  complicated or there's
• 39:22
  no way it work, right?
• 39:23
  Like that's I think that's the assumption
• 39:24
  that people make is if it's not
• 39:25
  complicated, maybe it's that's easy.
• 39:28
  But like what you're saying is
• 39:29
  fundamentals don't don't
• 39:30
  equate to easy necessarily.
• 39:32
  No, no, no.
• 39:33
  Yeah, it's tough because
• 39:33
  you got to put in more effort.
• 39:34
  You know, I mean, like
• 39:35
  you've got to find that story.
• 39:37
  You've scrolled past the full story and
• 39:38
  you're like maybe that one would do so.
• 39:41
  No, you got to keep scrolling.
• 39:42
  You got to find that one that really hits
• 39:44
  home where you're like, oh,
• 39:45
  no, that's definitely a story.
• 39:47
  I know that for a fact that people having
• 39:48
  that in their day-to-day life.
• 39:49
  So as soon as I start telling that you
• 39:51
  just plug in straight in.
• 39:53
  Yeah, so I kind of segues decently into
• 39:56
  like some some formats.
• 39:58
  Just curious like okay.
• 39:59
  So are there any formats recently that
• 40:04
  that you can just like free games you
• 40:06
  mentioned you mentioned?
• 40:07
  Yeah, there's you said AI slot, but I
• 40:09
  think AI slot can be I mean, I know what
• 40:11
  you mean, but it can cover
• 40:12
  so many different things.
• 40:13
  It's claymation.
• 40:14
  It's Pixar.
• 40:14
  It's not not any of those anything
• 40:17
  between like any other formats recently
• 40:19
  that people can latch on to.
• 40:21
  Yeah, so yeah, there's for sure.
• 40:26
  Founders stuff.
• 40:27
  We love a bit of
• 40:28
  founder stuff claymation.
• 40:32
  Pixar like the skeleton stuff as well.
• 40:35
  I don't know if you've seen that that's
• 40:36
  crushed like native statics again.
• 40:41
  And if anyone's not sure what I mean by
• 40:42
  that it's just like some kind of like
• 40:45
  image that looks like it could been you
• 40:47
  know, it's not meant to look like an ad
• 40:49
  like you know, sometimes they'll do it
• 40:51
  with like nurses and stuff or just I mean
• 40:55
  that's probably like don't know why that
• 40:57
  example is in my head or like if you're
• 40:58
  doing dog supplements, you could just be
• 41:00
  a picture of a dog
• 41:01
  looking sad or whatever.
• 41:02
  And then it's just like really long
• 41:04
  primary text copy, but usually that's
• 41:06
  involving some kind of story as well.
• 41:08
  This like long form it goes through that
• 41:11
  that one I like a lot, you know, I was
• 41:14
  dunking on them, but sometimes I do look
• 41:15
  like a little free
• 41:16
  reasons why I had it can work.
• 41:18
  It can work.
• 41:19
  Well, it's like people take formats and
• 41:21
  they try to like they try to slap to your
• 41:23
  points like they try to they try to say
• 41:25
  okay, here's the script cod make it for
• 41:27
  my product and it's like that's the
• 41:29
  that's the that's the bad soft version of
• 41:31
  just like they're
• 41:32
  trying to use the format.
• 41:33
  Because somebody said the format was what
• 41:34
  was mattered, but it's like the format
• 41:36
  plus the messaging plus understanding the
• 41:38
  person is really like it's all exactly
• 41:41
  and we don't apply every format to every
• 41:43
  client because sometimes
• 41:44
  just doesn't make sense.
• 41:45
  It's like for some that like the app it
• 41:47
  just works so much better at then it's
• 41:49
  like okay, then we can just do that.
• 41:51
  But then if it's like a claymation and
• 41:53
  we're doing it with pets, you can make
• 41:54
  the fucking dog talk.
• 41:55
  You know, I mean like you
• 41:56
  can't do that with a Apple one.
• 41:57
  You know, and so you can make and people
• 41:58
  want to know what their dogs are saying.
• 42:00
  So they feel that kind of thing like, oh,
• 42:01
  wow, my do you know, I mean, so it's like
• 42:03
  it makes sense for
• 42:04
  different clients as well.
• 42:05
  But I think people see that now that
• 42:06
  okay, I've got to like shoehorn this into
• 42:08
  that and it just doesn't really make
• 42:10
  sense and you can't see a bit like, you
• 42:12
  know, I guess a good example
• 42:14
  of it would be podcast ads.
• 42:16
  The amount of brutal ones I've seen those
• 42:19
  is because everyone was
• 42:19
  like, oh, this is a great form.
• 42:20
  I need to do it, but it's
• 42:21
  like, no, it's tough to do.
• 42:24
  I mean, I've never tried to do one, but I
• 42:25
  imagine it's tough to do.
• 42:27
  And like, you know, it takes effort and
• 42:29
  like, does it work for every product?
• 42:31
  Does it make sense for every product?
• 42:32
  It's like, no, I just did it because it
• 42:33
  was the hot thing at that point.
• 42:35
  This stuff is like so much it's built on
• 42:37
  volume and the focus
• 42:39
  has been on volume, right?
• 42:40
  In terms of like AI can help you build
• 42:43
  better systems that do all these 25
• 42:45
  things that create 300 ads, you know, and
• 42:47
  I think what you're you're you're like
• 42:49
  the anti of the hats, you know, to a
• 42:50
  degree, like it's you're slowing it down.
• 42:53
  You're trying different formats,
• 42:54
  certainly, but you're also like, okay,
• 42:56
  let's just like look at this objectively.
• 42:58
  Like is this three reasons why isn't
• 43:00
  necessarily bad, but like it would be
• 43:02
  three reasons why in the context of other
• 43:05
  stuff like it's in
• 43:06
  the context of a story.
• 43:08
  It's in the context of and I
• 43:09
  think that's a real difference.
• 43:10
  Like I wonder what the average character
• 43:13
  count is of an ad on a highly successful
• 43:16
  ad on a successful D2C company.
• 43:19
  It's got let's say that
• 43:20
  it's 200 words roughly, right?
• 43:24
  Let's say let's say that's what like most
• 43:26
  of these are going to
• 43:26
  be 100 to 300 words.
• 43:29
  The stuff that you showed in Lisbon Harry
• 43:30
  like those ads were easily 1500 to 2000
• 43:36
  characters like or words like they were
• 43:38
  long, you know, and
• 43:39
  it's like a whole thing.
• 43:40
  And so I think that is a real difference.
• 43:42
  So it's like it's not just one style of
• 43:44
  format and we all
• 43:44
  want that answer, right?
• 43:46
  We all want like the answer that's going
• 43:48
  to make it easy to be
• 43:49
  like, oh, you take this format.
• 43:51
  It creates that ad and
• 43:52
  boom, it pumps it out.
• 43:53
  And I think you have to have
• 43:54
  that in an account as well.
• 43:56
  But if you want to truly see growth,
• 43:59
  there has to be like a real storytelling
• 44:01
  piece that slows it down.
• 44:02
  And I think slowing down is something
• 44:04
  that's really hard for a lot
• 44:05
  of people, including myself.
• 44:06
  So I think that's a really interesting
• 44:08
  way to kind of go
• 44:09
  about thinking about it.
• 44:10
  You know, I think that's why I like to
• 44:12
  force the manual stuff because that
• 44:13
  forces people to slow down, you know, I
• 44:15
  mean, like maybe you still feel like
• 44:16
  you're going fast because you
• 44:18
  got a lot of stuff going on.
• 44:19
  But it makes you slow down on the
• 44:23
  product, the market, because you have to
• 44:26
  be like sit with it and like actually sit
• 44:28
  going through these things, reading this
• 44:30
  stuff instead of just having like AI
• 44:32
  summarize it all for you and just being
• 44:35
  like, it's probably going
• 44:36
  to miss some like nuggets.
• 44:37
  Maybe it has.
• 44:37
  Maybe it hasn't, you know, I mean, like,
• 44:39
  because I'm always
• 44:39
  testing it out as well.
• 44:40
  Like it sounds like I'm done.
• 44:41
  Can I like a lot of the stuff I do, like
• 44:43
  I'm trying like new new
• 44:45
  flows and stuff like that.
• 44:47
  And like was playing with
• 44:47
  Reddit scrapers and stuff.
• 44:49
  But when I went back and checked the
• 44:51
  sources, I was like, wait, you've just
• 44:52
  missed stories out of this and maybe
• 44:54
  taking like a couple of words that you
• 44:56
  thought would be good and helpful.
• 44:58
  And like, yeah, sure they were.
• 44:59
  But like this story
• 45:00
  would have been great.
• 45:01
  And like I was even telling it to like
• 45:02
  pull me the longest
• 45:03
  stuff and like whatever.
• 45:05
  But I think just by getting people to do
• 45:06
  more manual, you are just making them
• 45:08
  slow down and be a lot
• 45:09
  more intentful with that ads.
• 45:12
  I also wouldn't say I'm
• 45:13
  necessarily anti volume.
• 45:16
  Because I think if you can do a good
• 45:17
  thing, you should do as much as possible.
• 45:19
  But it never made sense to me when people
• 45:22
  were like pedaling it like a year ago and
• 45:24
  like funnily, they've all made a big
• 45:26
  U-turn on that as well.
• 45:28
  Everyone that was like volume, volume,
• 45:30
  volume has backpedaled.
• 45:32
  But it just made, I don't know.
• 45:35
  I see.
• 45:37
  Brands being like, this is the most upset
• 45:40
  they've been maybe with
• 45:41
  like agency performance.
• 45:42
  I don't know.
• 45:43
  Like everyone I speak to
• 45:44
  seems to have like be upset.
• 45:45
  Buy it.
• 45:46
  And like this has come just after there's
• 45:49
  been mass adoption of AI and also
• 45:51
  everyone's spouting volume.
• 45:53
  And it seems like creative agencies are
• 45:55
  just like churned and
• 45:56
  burned through like all the time.
• 45:57
  Like every time I talk to a brand, I'm
• 45:58
  like, oh, just like creative agencies
• 46:00
  can't get any hits or whatever.
• 46:02
  And I'm just like, I don't know.
• 46:03
  Maybe it's coincidental.
• 46:05
  Maybe it's not, but
• 46:06
  it seems, I don't know.
• 46:07
  I don't know.
• 46:07
  It seems fishy to me.
• 46:09
  You, I feel like you just nailed the
• 46:11
  whole entire beef section on your own.
• 46:12
  So I don't even know if we need to go
• 46:14
  with any more beef, Andrea.
• 46:15
  Unless you got something
• 46:16
  you want to be mad about.
• 46:17
  But no, this is great.
• 46:19
  I mean, I think that, you
• 46:21
  know, I don't think it's beef.
• 46:22
  So I think the challenge is, is we all
• 46:24
  are right now the ecosystem is built on
• 46:27
  people putting out information that makes
• 46:29
  people feel left out and makes them.
• 46:32
  And it has been for a while, but it makes
• 46:34
  them feel like they're behind and it's
• 46:36
  based on a volume really of like, I'm
• 46:40
  doing all these things that are solving
• 46:41
  all these issues and I'm saving all this
• 46:43
  time and all this money hypothetically.
• 46:45
  Right.
• 46:45
  But I think Harry Harry going out with
• 46:47
  the message he's gone out with one is you
• 46:49
  have leads coming into your inbox or
• 46:52
  flooding your inbox in some instances
• 46:54
  because you because you're doing
• 46:57
  something different and you're slowing
• 46:58
  down, which is really challenging for
• 47:00
  people in the AI age to do.
• 47:02
  I think the other the other thing to
• 47:04
  point out is like many times the answer
• 47:07
  is actually is stopping and looking at
• 47:10
  this objectively and saying like, what
• 47:12
  are we trying to
• 47:12
  actually story tell here?
• 47:14
  And how that's that's that's really an
• 47:17
  interesting takeaway from this episode
• 47:18
  that I think a lot of people can can take
• 47:21
  something from because we
• 47:23
  get away from that so often.
• 47:25
  And so that's kind of that's kind of my
• 47:27
  my beef is like, slow down.
• 47:29
  It's okay, you know, and it's just
• 47:32
  because this stuff being yelled other
• 47:34
  places doesn't mean that
• 47:35
  it's actually more successful.
• 47:36
  Yeah, well, and like the amount of times
• 47:38
  I talked to a brand and oh, they just
• 47:40
  feel like they didn't really understand
• 47:41
  my audience like the amount of times.
• 47:43
  I've heard that this year is like insane.
• 47:45
  And it's like, come on,
• 47:47
  that's our job is advertised.
• 47:48
  It's like we got if we don't know the
• 47:50
  audience, what we doing, you know, I
• 47:51
  mean, like, it seems like basics again,
• 47:53
  but like the amount of times I've heard
• 47:55
  that this year has been kind of like just
• 47:58
  just mental and I feel like if people
• 47:59
  just did manual research, it would solve
• 48:01
  all those issues like I have no crazy
• 48:04
  flow to sell you what to let them say,
• 48:06
  no, just just go read
• 48:07
  through it and you'll be fine.
• 48:08
  You'll be able to make ads that like
• 48:09
  crush, you know what I mean?
• 48:11
  And yeah, I mean, like, what you said on
• 48:13
  kind of like, stuff being pumped out on,
• 48:16
  oh, you're missing out like after that
• 48:18
  paid partnership stuff like, you know,
• 48:19
  like I see stuff and it's like, oh, this
• 48:21
  industry is now finished.
• 48:23
  Oh, you just use all like
• 48:24
  whatever is like cooked.
• 48:25
  And now like before you never saw the
• 48:27
  paid partnership stuff and I used to like
• 48:29
  the parts I paid partnership.
• 48:31
  I was like, oh, yeah, you guys was being
• 48:32
  paid to say that the whole time.
• 48:33
  It didn't have to disclose it.
• 48:35
  I think there's quite a few.
• 48:37
  So a whole other thing.
• 48:38
  I mean, as I were trying to build our
• 48:39
  partnerships program right now
• 48:41
  transparently in a better way and really
• 48:43
  and I'm really conscious
• 48:45
  around how we want to do that.
• 48:46
  Right.
• 48:46
  And and the people that were like working
• 48:49
  with and making sure it makes sense
• 48:50
  because I think that's so true.
• 48:52
  I mean, you only have your word, right?
• 48:53
  And like I get DMS all times like we do
• 48:55
  this for $400 and like
• 48:58
  my word is not worth $400.
• 49:00
  It's priceless.
• 49:01
  You know what I mean?
• 49:02
  I've got to be able to have people come
• 49:04
  in and saying I use this all the times.
• 49:07
  Yeah, never take a partnership yet.
• 49:11
  Not yet.
• 49:12
  Except from Foxwell.
• 49:13
  I'll send you the money after this.
• 49:15
  Yeah, no, thank you.
• 49:16
  Thanks.
• 49:17
  And of course, I forgot that.
• 49:21
  Yeah, yeah.
• 49:23
  Harry, thank you for joining us.
• 49:24
  Really appreciate it.
• 49:25
  No, good.
• 49:26
  Hopefully people found
• 49:27
  that found that valuable.
• 49:29
  You know, a little bit
• 49:30
  late in the evening for me.
• 49:31
  So might have been a whole lot of
• 49:33
  nonsense, but thank you for having me.
• 49:40
  This episode is brought to you by the
• 49:42
  Foxwell founders
• 49:43
  membership that Andrew and his wife,
• 49:45
  Gracie run.
• 49:45
  It has been absolutely pivotal for not
• 49:48
  just the Homestead team, but
• 49:49
  the easy Street Brands team.
• 49:51
  We've had I don't even know how many
• 49:52
  members are currently in there that are
• 49:54
  part of our ecosystem.
• 49:55
  But when it comes to anything from
• 49:56
  learning ads to understanding what's
• 49:58
  going on to building an
• 49:59
  agency to knowing retention,
• 50:01
  it's been absolutely useful for our team
• 50:04
  when they get stuck or they need help to
• 50:05
  just go there and
• 50:06
  resource all the other experts.
• 50:08
  So definitely would recommend it for
• 50:09
  anybody that's looking to,
• 50:10
  you know, take it a step deeper.
• 50:12
  Try to get a little bit more knowledge on
• 50:14
  on growth marketing
• 50:14
  and all the world DTC is.
• 50:16
  I think one of the most incredible things
• 50:18
  about it is you can just like open up the
• 50:19
  slack group every single day.
• 50:21
  You can pin your favorite channels for
• 50:22
  the topics you care most about.
• 50:24
  And like every day there's going to be
• 50:25
  somebody who just like because they want
• 50:27
  to contribute something
• 50:28
  valuable to the group.
• 50:30
  You can go learn something every single
• 50:31
  day and it's going to
• 50:32
  be extremely useful.
• 50:34
  There's there's some ballers in there.
• 50:35
  They just get like the benefit of
• 50:36
  learning from that like for the for the
• 50:38
  costs like you couldn't
• 50:39
  pay them that for their time,
• 50:41
  but through the membership like you get
• 50:42
  access to some some incredible
• 50:43
  people and tons of resources.
• 50:45
  Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest
• 50:46
  resource to me too is like
• 50:48
  the events that you know,
• 50:49
  Foxwell founders does they've been able
• 50:50
  to do some even in Wisconsin even in the
• 50:53
  boring state of Wisconsin,
• 50:54
  which is pretty awesome getting people
• 50:56
  together in person and able to have
• 50:58
  really just like honest
• 50:59
  conversations of what's going on
• 51:00
  was working for them now, you know where
• 51:02
  they're at their business and knowing
• 51:04
  that there's going to be like Brad said
• 51:05
  some real killers in the space
• 51:06
  in this in this membership that can that
• 51:09
  can help and are willing
• 51:10
  to take the time and help.
• 51:11
  So that's been a huge part of why a lot
• 51:13
  of our team have
• 51:14
  really enjoyed it as well.
• 51:15
  And the applications are now open if
• 51:16
  you're looking to join.
• 51:17
  So Foxwell founders.
• 51:19
  Yeah, Foxwell founders dot com.
• 51:21
  Go check it out.
• 51:21
  Go play.
• 51:31
  The only way that we grow this podcast is
• 51:34
  by you sharing it with your friends.
• 51:36
  Honestly, like reviews kind of don't
• 51:37
  really mean anything too much anymore.
• 51:39
  They're really meaningful, but they don't
• 51:40
  do a lot for the growth of the podcast.
• 51:42
  And so sharing YouTube links sharing
• 51:45
  Spotify links sharing Apple, whatever we
• 51:48
  call it under the podcast app now
• 51:50
  anything you can share the better.
• 51:52
  We're going to be guys anything else you
• 51:54
  want to say on this.
• 51:55
  Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube
• 51:57
  rack up those views for us.
• 51:59
  We'd love to see it and then subscribe
• 52:00
  make sure to
• 52:01
  subscribe on YouTube as well.
• 52:02
  And I relentlessly refresh the YouTube
• 52:04
  comments because it dictates
• 52:05
  my mental health for the day.
• 52:06
  So please say
• 52:06
  something nice about all of us.
• 52:09
  Thank you everyone.
• 52:10
  Thanks for listening.
• 52:11
  Honestly.