Latest / Pathological Positivity / Wisdom Beats Knowledge – with Brian Gorman – Episode #706
Transcript
- This is Live On Purpose Radio episode 706, wisdom beats knowledge with Brian Gorman. Now is the only time to create and live the life you love. I'm doctor Paul Jenkins, the positivity psychologist. My job is to connect you to powerful positive psychology principles that immediately upgrade your relationships, business, and mental health. Are you ready? Let's jump in. Hello, and welcome back to Live On Purpose Radio. This is doctor Paul, the shrink who expands your life. And today, in in a world that's overflowing with information, why do we still struggle to make better decisions and create meaningful change? Well, in this episode, I'm going to dig in with Brian Gorman to explore a powerful truth that knowledge alone isn't enough, and what really makes the difference is wisdom. I'm excited to get into that conversation. Brian Gorman, welcome to Live On Purpose Radio. It is great to be with you, Doctor. Paul. I'm looking forward to this conversation. I am as well. You know, as I've I've thought about your background, you've got a a background in organizational change and neuroscience and adult learning. And I know you've also got a very rich personal and professional life experience, and you're now applying that to work with leaders and to provide messages to the world that are very relevant, I think, to where we need to go. So I'm I'm pleased to tap into that a little bit with you. Brian, could you just share with with our listeners here today, why are you so passionate about this wisdom idea, especially given everything that you know about neuroscience technology and everything else? So as a foundation, I, throughout my life, actually, really starting as a freshman in college, have followed the path that makes my heart sing. And the common thread in that path... And I've been through all sorts of careers and all sorts of job titles and, all sorts of professions, but the common path or the common thread through that path is people going through change and supporting people going through change. Mhmm. And just like all of us, artificial intelligence sort of surfaced in our worlds for for the most part, when chat GPT hit the big screen, if you will. Mhmm. And I was aware of it. I was paying attention to it like I pay attention to a thousand other things. And then I started hearing some things that really just didn't sound right. AI is going to be replacing entire entry level professional positions. And then I heard a CEO of a tech firm say artificial intelligence can do my job. And I just sort of sat back and said, wait a minute. There is something wrong here. And the wrong that I discovered in reflecting on that is, as you say, there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Mhmm. Artificial intelligence is commoditizing intelligence. The differentiator is the wisdom in which we apply it, judgment, discernment, the ethics behind the decisions. That's what really becomes important. So there's an important distinction here between knowledge or intelligence, and maybe we're using those somewhat interchangeably, at least at this point, and wisdom. And it feels to me like the wisdom element there has something to do with life experience, morality, judgment, discernment, elements that that supersede knowledge. It's at a a higher level. Am I getting that correctly the way you understand it? Absolutely. Absolutely right on point, doctor Paul. There's a lot of fear, I think. I've... At least I've heard people expressing fears that AI is going to take over every... Rule the world. I don't know what the fear is. What what is it from your experience, Brian, that we need to be aware of and maybe cautious about? But then, whatever it is that's coming to your mind that says, and don't lose sight of this. While we worry about that, don't lose sight of this. I think that there might be something there that you could speak to. So my background, my undergraduate degree is cultural anthropology. Oh, interesting. And a while ago... And when I say a while ago, I'm talking months, not years. A while ago Okay. I did some research through that cultural anthropology lens at the steam engine and how the steam engine moved into our lives, and and how... What decisions were made, and the impact of those decisions over time. And and the goal of that research was to really say what lessons can we learn that we can now bring forward so history doesn't repeat itself where mistakes were made. Mhmm. And what lessons can we apply to artificial intelligence? Do you know why we work Monday through Friday, forty hours a week? You know, where my brain went was to Henry Ford. You got it. A whole different story, but Nope. That is exactly it. Yeah? The steam engine really changed the way labor was done. Mhmm. And Henry Ford was a part of that movement, and he literally did experiments to see what was the most productive way to build bottle t's. Mhmm. And it was the Monday to Friday forty hour work week, giving Saturdays and Sundays off for religious worship. We're still following that pattern today. Most of us are not... I mean, I I don't think any of us are building model t's. Most of us are not doing forty hours hours of manual labor. Most of us are doing knowledge work, and knowledge work uses different energy. Mhmm. But we're still measuring productivity based on forty hours a week. So that's just one of those lessons that we need to learn. Decisions that are being made now become just the way things are going forward. And once it becomes just the way things are, it becomes much more difficult to change. When I was interviewing with, Mark Albert a few weeks ago, his final question to me is, are you scared about where AI is taking us? And I said, yes. I am. Because I do think that, you know, the steam engine took decades to fully find its place. I don't think we have a decade with artificial intelligence. I think the window is much smaller. And and I think we could go into that dystopian technology future, or we could go into a future where AI actually lifts us to higher levels of human... Humanity in the workplace and in the broader, scheme of things. So long answer to your one question. But for me, I have this vision. I have this wisdom, if you will, that I feel is important to share with as many people as I can so that I can do whatever I can to help support us moving into that more human... That more humane world of the future. What popped into my mind, Brian, as you brought that up, I've heard it too. You know, the the images or projections or predictions of this dystopian future where computers and robots rule. And that doesn't seem to me to be like a good option. And instead of it being an inevitable future, what if it's just one of the options? It is just one of the options. And what if we were to... Like you said, what if we were to use AI and robotics and all kinds of artificial intelligence? What if we were used to use that to elevate humanity? Which goes right back to the steam engine example that you shared. Did that take away something from humanity or did that elevate humanity? And I think you can find evidence for either theory. It was both and. Which most things are. It was both and. Yeah. So it it was probably a couple of years ago, Brian, that I had a realization when I was trying to schedule something that I really wanted to do. And I looked at my calendar, and my thought was, I can't look at all these things I have to do. And then I had a realization, wait a minute. My calendar works for me, not the other way around. It's a tool that I use to accomplish my purposes. Right? And something in the perspective of artificial intelligence. There's another AI, actual intelligence, that maybe is empowered by wisdom and the things that make us uniquely human. And as I have this conversation with you and just getting to know you a little bit over the last few weeks, I think the key is in there somewhere. It absolutely is. First, I have to chuckle because I just had that calendar conversation with a client earlier today. Oh, did you? I did. But the the point you're raising is we have a choice. Does our calendar control us or do we control our calendar? Does artificial control... Intelligence control us or do we control artificial intelligence? One of the wonders and risks of AI is just like every technology, it speeds things up. But what happens when we speed up research, when we speed up decision making? We get rid of the space that was there for reflection, that was there for those tensions that say, Paul sees this from this lens. Brian sees this from list... This lens. There's value in both. How do we bring them together at at an even greater level. We have that choice now to say where do we turn over the work to artificial intelligence, and where do we retain control of it so that we can develop and apply wisdom? You know, I'm... My brain works in images and metaphors, and and I pictured a sleek, shiny new sports car that can easily top a 150 miles an hour. Right? It's it's it's a powerful, fast, sleek sports car. Well, what if I wanna take a leisurely Sunday drive through a nice mountain path? Well, guess what? That sports car can go 30 miles an hour too. So the fact that we have this powerful tool doesn't mean that we always have to be moving fast. And remember who's driving. That's just the image that popped into my mind that I I love it. I I love that comparison. I think it's right on point, doctor Paul. So what does this have to do with leadership? I know you work with a lot of leaders in this context. The challenge for leaders, particularly leaders in publicly traded companies, is to not just keep up with the competitive market, but to take the lead in that. And that means moving more and more swiftly. So the challenge that I have when I am looking to work with leaders is to help them understand, I'm not saying spend the next three months or six months or a year thinking about AI. I'm saying, think not only about the technology, but about the people. My my focus really is at that intersection between artificial intelligence and human wisdom. And, again, how do we bring those two together to leverage the best of both? Yes. It's it's almost like the the choice that we always have to live by fear or to live by faith or to choose purpose intentionally and use the abundant resources that are available to us to accomplish our purposes that way. Yeah. We we can go fast, and we can slow down and do a little more reflection that elevates that human wisdom part that I think is what ultimately differentiates the powerful leaders and parents. Parents are leaders, but anyone who has a voice of influence, I think that's what elevates them to differentiate from the masses of people who might grab on to AI and think that the knowledge is sufficient and just spit that out the way we receive it from our mechanical friends. Yeah. One of the things that's been interesting for me along the way is how many leaders use the term intelligence to include knowledge and wisdom. Mhmm. And that makes it so easy to default to AI. Mhmm. But if we really think about it, that... If we... That technology does not have critical thinking. That technology has whatever ethics is built into the models. Mhmm. That technology is typically programmed for optimization. And optimization may be absolutely right in this... On this path. The model may hit it... Hit the nail on the head, so to speak. But that means we close down the one facility in this town. Is that ethically the right thing to do? Or is there another path where we can achieve virtually the same results without doing harm to others? That's where wisdom comes in. That's where leaders in in my mind are called to have the courage to make the tough decisions. The tough decisions because of the dilemmas, the ethical dilemmas that are classic, you know, to ethical decision making. I'm also thinking about the ones that make the most sense for the humans. You know, Brian, I had an experience with this just earlier this week. You you and I know that we adjusted our schedule to record this episode because I chose to do a last minute trip to San Francisco to help my son with a move. I've been to San Francisco a few times. I'm not intimately familiar with the lay of the land, especially where my son's apartment was never visited that part of the the city, yada yada yada. So what do I do? I go on chat g p t, and I say, help me get from San Francisco Airport to this address using public transportation. And I've been on BART before. I've been on some of the buses there. I knew it was possible. And Chad GPT said, yes. Here's three different options, and the one I recommend is this one. Well, it was fine, but it wasn't humanly the best option. Now had I asked a local, some person who lives there and does this as part of their daily experience, yes, the route that Chad Gb gig gave me made sense logically. But from a practical human experience standpoint, it would have been much better to take the line to this stop and then get off and make... Take this bus. You need to make one switch here, but it's gonna get you there so much faster and easier. That's something a human could have told me because of their life experience and the subjective impact that that has on on their level of joy or convenience or the scenery is better. Whatever it is, there's a human element that can't quite be captured by artificial intelligence. And I... I'm just thinking of that as part of the value of wisdom. What if we could be open to the wisdom of those who have reasons to know? I wanna pick up on that list of those who have reason to know and bring it back to the workplace for a moment. Yes. Those who have reason to know what is and what is not working for your customers, for clients, what is and what is not working about the services you're offering, the the products you're providing. What is changing before that change becomes data are your frontline people. Mhmm. Salespeople, your your your retail clerks, your your, customer service people. My point is wisdom resides at every level of the organization. Yes. And, unfortunately, our historical model again, if we go back to the steam engine, is no, it doesn't. Wisdom resides in the c suite. Mhmm. So organizations may well not have been leveraging that wisdom until it accumulated to the point that the data is showing our sales dropped 25% this last month. But my point is, if organizations really begin to respect the wisdom that people across and up and down the organization can bring, the results are gonna be very different in a positive direction. And I think that's... Those results can be measured not only in the bottom line, but in the human experience of the people working in the organization. Absolutely. Well, this is fun. I... We could go on talking all day, Brian. I'm sure. I know for purposes of this podcast, we're probably coming to a point where we're going to wrap it up. And before I do that, I want to make sure that people have a route to get to you. I know you have a website, transforminglives.coach, because you do a lot of coaching and consulting in this area. Is is that the best place for people to connect to you, Brian? That is the best place. I'm actually rewriting the website as we talk because it really focuses much more on my coaching now. The role that I'm now taking with leaders begins to get much broader with coaching, advising, speaking, and and so forth. But, there is a link on the website to, schedule a a sit down and chat with me. People can also email me at brian, that's b r I a n, at transforming livestock coach, or find me on LinkedIn, or even give me a phone call. I'm at (917) 653-5198. Oh, well, thank you. And I know, by the way, folks, if you're listening and you're thinking, yeah. How does Brian answer his phone? I called him. He answered. So test him. See if you can give Brian Gorman a call. I personally answer it. Brian, thank you for sharing some of your valuable wisdom. It's coming through in the conversation. Thank you for your contributions here today. Thank you, doctor Paul, for the opportunity. Alright. You guys have heard it. And remember, transforminglives.coach,not.com,.coach. And that says something too. That's where you can connect to our guest today, Brian Gorman, who is ready and willing to assist your organization to move forward with wisdom, which always trumps knowledge. Alright, folks. We've heard it. Time to apply it. Let's go live on purpose. Did you get what you came for? Give yourself the gift of taking real action on what you realized today. Please share this episode with someone you know would value it, and leave us a rating too. It's time now to live on purpose.