Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom disappears at midnight, her boys dead by ax. Now Susan Powell’s parents WIN AGAINST DSHS!

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Mom disappears at midnight, her boys dead by ax. Now Susan Powell’s parents WIN AGAINST DSHS! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. No one will ever forget
0:16
Speaker 1: the disappearance of a gorgeous young mom of two, Susan
0:20
Speaker 1: Cox Powell, and then the tragedy that befell their family
0:24
Speaker 1: even after Mommy goes missing. But right now a stunning
0:30
Speaker 1: turn and the case Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the emergency.
0:50
Speaker 1: My son and his wife and their two children haven't
0:53
Speaker 1: responded to anything recording. I'm not responding because that they're
0:57
Speaker 1: not responding to people coming on their doors tracks coming
1:00
Speaker 1: out of the out of town. I haven't had any
1:06
Speaker 1: anything from them saying that they would be out of
1:08
Speaker 1: town and bored that maybe gasps honor something like that. Sorry,
1:12
Speaker 1: I have to notified. Okay, can you're welcome to by
1:16
Speaker 1: You're hearing a nine one one call where Josh Powell,
1:19
Speaker 1: Powell's mother is desperately calling nine one one with me
1:24
Speaker 1: and I'll start panel to break it down, put it
1:27
Speaker 1: back together again, and give you the very latest in
1:30
Speaker 1: the case of Susan Cox Powell with me. Rose Winkwist,
1:36
Speaker 1: investigator at Winkwist Investigations dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned
1:41
Speaker 1: psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction Professor Forensics,
1:45
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and
1:48
Speaker 1: now the star of Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network.
1:52
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page,
1:58
Speaker 1: Sherry Davis, special guests joining US Jury four person and Bremner,
2:04
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us out of Seattle. And special
2:09
Speaker 1: guest Chuck Cox. This is Susan's father, Chuck. Do you
2:14
Speaker 1: remember when you guys became very concerned you couldn't find Susan. Absolutely,
2:22
Speaker 1: it's clear what happened, mister Cox. When how did you
2:26
Speaker 1: first learn your wife you couldn't find Susan? Well, Josh's
2:30
Speaker 1: sister Jennifer called me from Salt Lake City, where she lives,
2:36
Speaker 1: and told me that they couldn't find Susan or the
2:41
Speaker 1: entire family. The whole family was missing. That is a stunner,
2:45
Speaker 1: you know. And Bremner, high profile lawyer joining me out
2:48
Speaker 1: of Seattle. You don't hear that very often. You know,
2:51
Speaker 1: you and I have covered cases together for a long time,
2:55
Speaker 1: and very rarely do you hear of an entire family
3:00
Speaker 1: just vanishing. Well, exactly, Nancy, and that was what was
3:03
Speaker 1: so stunning about this case that they were all missing?
3:05
Speaker 1: And then of course we know that Josh Powell really
3:07
Speaker 1: didn't have any answers. You know, interesting because very often,
3:12
Speaker 1: for instance, let me go to you on this, doctor
3:14
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, say, you know, my husband travels a lot
3:17
Speaker 1: for business, and typically he texts in immediately when he
3:21
Speaker 1: lands and then when hopefully when he gets to his
3:24
Speaker 1: first meeting. If I don't hear from him when I
3:28
Speaker 1: think I'm supposed to at first, you know, it bothers me.
3:31
Speaker 1: But I don't hop on a plane and fly to
3:34
Speaker 1: wherever he is. I wait for like four or five hours.
3:39
Speaker 1: In this case, mister and missus Cox, they sense something.
3:44
Speaker 1: What is that feeling? It's almost a premonition, doctor Angie. Well,
3:49
Speaker 1: and you also have to wonder if that premonition was
3:51
Speaker 1: backed up with some pier behavior that made them worry
3:57
Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, you know what, You're actually right, guys.
4:01
Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of id murder mystery. On
4:04
Speaker 1: the morning of December seventh, two thousand and nine, the
4:08
Speaker 1: Powell family is reported missing. Later that evening, Josh Powell
4:13
Speaker 1: returns home with his two sons, but there's no sign
4:17
Speaker 1: of his wife, twenty eight year old Susan. Josh rose
4:22
Speaker 1: down as passenger window and I asked him where he's been.
4:26
Speaker 1: So Josh tells them that at about midnight the night before,
4:30
Speaker 1: he decided to take the boys winter camping. I asked
4:34
Speaker 1: him why he would leave and go camping in the
4:37
Speaker 1: middle of the night when there's a snowstorm coming in,
4:40
Speaker 1: and he said that it did this all the time.
4:42
Speaker 1: It wasn't anything uncommon, and his boys wanted to go
4:46
Speaker 1: out in camp and have s'mores. So the detective asked
4:49
Speaker 1: Josh why he hadn't answered the phone in all those
4:52
Speaker 1: hours they were trying to call him. Josh said he
4:55
Speaker 1: was conserving the battery because he didn't have a charger,
4:57
Speaker 1: but there was a charger right there plain sight. He
5:02
Speaker 1: told me that Susan should have been at work, and
5:04
Speaker 1: I told him that Susan was not at work, and
5:07
Speaker 1: that's why we needed to go down to the office
5:10
Speaker 1: and talk. So let me understand this, mister Cox, Susan's missing,
5:15
Speaker 1: and the husband, Josh, rolls up in the car and says, oh,
5:21
Speaker 1: I took the children camping. You know we're a big
5:23
Speaker 1: camp ERUs, mister Cox, I don't know if you knew
5:25
Speaker 1: that or not. We take the twins camping in r
5:27
Speaker 1: ving all the time. Rule number one, dope, pitch a
5:31
Speaker 1: tent and the dark. Rule number one real number two
5:35
Speaker 1: always have your chargers with you. So his story was
5:39
Speaker 1: that the boys. How old were they at the time, Chuck,
5:43
Speaker 1: I believe they were two and four, So let me understand.
5:49
Speaker 1: And Bremner, he takes a two year old and a
5:51
Speaker 1: four year old camping in the snow at midnight. Yeah,
5:54
Speaker 1: presumably they're both in diapers. But that's what he said,
5:57
Speaker 1: and that's why the case was so incredible from the beginning.
6:00
Speaker 1: That's well, you know what, I know your take on
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Speaker 1: an Anne Bremner, because you've been standing by the Cox
6:06
Speaker 1: family from the get go. I'd like to go to
6:09
Speaker 1: a special guest joining us the jury four person on
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Speaker 1: the Cox Powell jury, Sherry Davis. Miss Davis, it's a
6:18
Speaker 1: real honor to speak to you. Very rarely do we
6:21
Speaker 1: get to hear what a jury actually thought when you
6:25
Speaker 1: heard that fact? What did you think? Very hard to
6:30
Speaker 1: listen to some of the facts that were presented to us.
6:34
Speaker 1: We had to keep reminding ourselves was even though these
6:38
Speaker 1: tragic events happened to the children. That is not the
6:42
Speaker 1: trial that we were on, and you kind of had
6:44
Speaker 1: to keep that in check in your mind. You know what.
6:49
Speaker 1: It's so reassuring for me to hear your voice, Miss Davis,
6:53
Speaker 1: because there seems so levelheaded and calm, and that is
6:58
Speaker 1: exactly what we need on Jury's. The only jurar of
7:02
Speaker 1: mine that I've really got to talk to is my dentist.
7:07
Speaker 1: I coincidentally got a dentist years later, and he, as
7:12
Speaker 1: he was working on my teeth, said, you know, it's
7:13
Speaker 1: on your jury, right, it's a jury. And since then
7:18
Speaker 1: we've talked about it, you know, years later, but I'm
7:21
Speaker 1: just so relieved to hear your voice of reason. Guys,
7:25
Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell. Her
7:29
Speaker 1: husband claims he takes their children, ages two and four,
7:32
Speaker 1: out camping at midnight in the snow and that Susan
7:37
Speaker 1: should be at work. Take a listen to more of
7:40
Speaker 1: ID murder Mystery. Police look around and they find something
7:44
Speaker 1: very odd. Susan Powell's purse is there, her wallet's there,
7:49
Speaker 1: her keys are there. Also. Inside the purse, they find
7:53
Speaker 1: this small key. They're not sure what it goes to
7:57
Speaker 1: and on top of that, they find her snowboots at home.
8:01
Speaker 1: So why Susan lee without her purse, her wallet and
8:04
Speaker 1: keys and her boots when it's been snowing out Crime
8:19
Speaker 1: stories With Nancy Grace, we were talking about the disappearance
8:23
Speaker 1: of a gorgeous young mom, Susan Cox Powell, and the
8:27
Speaker 1: tragedy that befell their family even after her her death.
8:32
Speaker 1: Susan is dead, her body has never been found, but
8:37
Speaker 1: mommy disappears, leaving behind a two and four year old
8:40
Speaker 1: little boy. She would never do that. In the last hours,
8:45
Speaker 1: a stunning turn in the case. But first listen to
8:49
Speaker 1: this id murder mystery. A West Valley City detective is
8:52
Speaker 1: assigned to the case. I am retired Detective Ellis Maxwell,
8:59
Speaker 1: and I was lead detective on the pal investigation. As
9:03
Speaker 1: I entered into the house, it didn't appear that somebody
9:07
Speaker 1: entered the home to rob them, were kidnapped them, or
9:10
Speaker 1: anything like that. As we walked through the residence, I
9:15
Speaker 1: noticed that there is two box fans that were set
9:17
Speaker 1: up in the front room that we're in operation blowing
9:20
Speaker 1: towards the carpet. Also, it appeared that somebody had cleaned
9:24
Speaker 1: the couch. The carpets hadn't been cleaned, just this one couch.
9:29
Speaker 1: So that was kind of suspicious, straight to you. Joseph
9:33
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, and so much
9:37
Speaker 1: and more now The Star a Poisonous Liaison's True Crime Network.
9:41
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. YEA, with this abundance of circumstantial evidence, I
9:46
Speaker 1: don't know quite where to start. So they go in
9:50
Speaker 1: and they see nothing amiss. Everything's in order except jump
9:55
Speaker 1: in Joe Scott. Well, yeah, the one thing that they
9:58
Speaker 1: see that is in question is this wet spot that
10:04
Speaker 1: fans are blowing on the sofa. And you know, there's
10:07
Speaker 1: several conclusions that we could arrive at here. Maybe somebody
10:10
Speaker 1: just incidentally drop something on the sofa, they got it wet,
10:14
Speaker 1: they spilled a drink, or maybe somebody sustained trauma in
10:18
Speaker 1: that specific spot. Let's think about the construction of a sofa. Nancy,
10:22
Speaker 1: if somebody's relaxed, see there on sofa, what do you
10:26
Speaker 1: have access to? Well, you've got them in a relax position.
10:28
Speaker 1: You can literally walk behind them and do great harm
10:32
Speaker 1: to them without them ever suspecting it or knowing it.
10:35
Speaker 1: And that's one of the questions that comes to mind
10:37
Speaker 1: for me, because there's no other signs of struggle, there's
10:40
Speaker 1: no signs of fourth century, there's no signs of theft
10:43
Speaker 1: of anything. It's just that one central area. And as
10:47
Speaker 1: the detective had mentioned, they were right to consider this.
10:51
Speaker 1: This is something you have to you know, who puts
10:53
Speaker 1: up fans in an area to dry this spot out specifically,
10:57
Speaker 1: so it could be an indication that something to ariuses
11:00
Speaker 1: have with me. Rose win Quist, she's a renowned investigator
11:05
Speaker 1: joining us. You can find her at win Quest wi
11:09
Speaker 1: n qui st win quest Investigations dot com. Rose, thank
11:14
Speaker 1: you for being with us. I understand that the boys
11:18
Speaker 1: after the dad brings them home, after he tells cops
11:21
Speaker 1: about their midnight camping trip in the snow um, they
11:29
Speaker 1: were questioned and they drew pictures of where mommy was.
11:36
Speaker 1: What were the drawings of, well, Nancy. The drawings were
11:41
Speaker 1: actually sometime later, and they were that mommy was buried,
11:49
Speaker 1: that that if you if you wanted to kill a bear,
11:52
Speaker 1: you bury it under the dirt and you plant a
11:55
Speaker 1: tree or you plant flowers on top of it. And
12:00
Speaker 1: as time went on, after mommy had disappeared. The boys
12:04
Speaker 1: started to talk a little bit more and expose some
12:09
Speaker 1: things that I think their father didn't want them to
12:12
Speaker 1: talk about. And Bremner what was exposed well, at first
12:17
Speaker 1: that they drew a picture of a body in the
12:18
Speaker 1: trunk of a car of their mom, and then there
12:21
Speaker 1: were a number of statements like, mommy's in my mind,
12:23
Speaker 1: mommy went camping with us. She didn't come back, didn't
12:26
Speaker 1: they say? Mommy went in the caves looking for crystals. Yes, exactly, Nancy,
12:31
Speaker 1: and then she didn't come back with them. In the
12:32
Speaker 1: car Mommy, in one of the drawings, was in the
12:37
Speaker 1: trunk of the car. Yes, she was in the trunk
12:39
Speaker 1: of the car. I mean, you know, Anne, you know
12:43
Speaker 1: what I went through to have the twins we were
12:46
Speaker 1: to get I remember, yeah, And I have up over
12:50
Speaker 1: the microwave right now. Pictures they drew when they were
12:54
Speaker 1: in kindergarten. And it's Lucy drew me and my braves,
12:59
Speaker 1: t shirt and black tides as usual, whip yella air
13:02
Speaker 1: sticking out and that's the way she dreamy. I'm in
13:05
Speaker 1: a picture holding hands with her. John David drew the
13:08
Speaker 1: whole family, all of us holding hands. If they had
13:13
Speaker 1: drawn me in a car trunk. I mean, I just
13:19
Speaker 1: don't understand why this was never taken to trial. Anne,
13:22
Speaker 1: I don't understand why Josh Powell waiting say his name,
13:27
Speaker 1: was not tried for murder. I know. And the DA
13:31
Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City was Lake City wanted a body.
13:34
Speaker 1: But they had this safe deposit box with their last
13:37
Speaker 1: will and testament saying if anything happened to her, he
13:40
Speaker 1: did at the blood in the house. You know, the
13:44
Speaker 1: concocted story. You know, three point five million dollars in
13:47
Speaker 1: life insurance and Josh took out on Susan. I could
13:49
Speaker 1: go on and on. Plus they had issues in their
13:51
Speaker 1: marriage right before this happened, and she was talking about
13:53
Speaker 1: leaving him, So issues in their marriage. That's certainly putting
13:58
Speaker 1: perfume on the pig, right, Isn't it true, mister Cox,
14:03
Speaker 1: that Susan's husband, Josh, had a father that was later
14:08
Speaker 1: convicted as it relates to lewd photos, and he had
14:13
Speaker 1: been spying on your daughter and taking her underwear and
14:17
Speaker 1: her hose. And I remember in one scenario he set
14:22
Speaker 1: up pillows as if they were a person on the
14:24
Speaker 1: bed and put her picture at the top and made
14:28
Speaker 1: out with the pillows. This is her father in law,
14:33
Speaker 1: and Josh Powell knew about it and blamed her. He
14:37
Speaker 1: was a sick, sick person. And her husband. Yeah, no,
14:43
Speaker 1: one wouldn't believed any of that. And actually we didn't
14:46
Speaker 1: have any idea of that. Kill after well after the fact,
14:51
Speaker 1: and once they got intoto Steve's information and stuff. But
14:56
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of pictures take it, including her when
15:02
Speaker 1: she didn't know that she was being photographed. And that's
15:05
Speaker 1: how they had to live and didn't the father, the
15:08
Speaker 1: father in law lived with them for a period of time. Yes,
15:11
Speaker 1: they lived with him and to have that every day,
15:16
Speaker 1: and she would rebuff his advances. It just went on
15:19
Speaker 1: and on. She didn't want to leave the boys, the
15:22
Speaker 1: bottom line, and she was the bread winner. She was
15:26
Speaker 1: the happy mom with the children. And he couldn't take it.
15:29
Speaker 1: He could not take it. And he exactly Nancy, and
15:33
Speaker 1: he was completely controlling with the money with the kids.
15:35
Speaker 1: He had to ride a bike to work. Sometimes she
15:37
Speaker 1: had with the kids in the basket of the bike.
15:40
Speaker 1: I mean she said she had to ride a bike
15:42
Speaker 1: to work. She had to ride a bike to work.
15:44
Speaker 1: He used the car and he didn't work, and they
15:46
Speaker 1: had to have daycare even though he didn't work, so
15:48
Speaker 1: there were all kinds of issues in the marriage. You know,
15:51
Speaker 1: he was a very, very controlling person and also emotionally abusive,
15:55
Speaker 1: and at least from one report, he hit her in
15:58
Speaker 1: the fame Doctor Angela An help me. I mean, one
16:02
Speaker 1: of your expertise is dealing with women with these type
16:10
Speaker 1: of problems. Of course, Susan herself didn't have the problem internally.
16:14
Speaker 1: The problem was Josh Powell. And it sounds like Josh
16:17
Speaker 1: Powell's family was a problem too, a big problem, and
16:21
Speaker 1: he let it. Josh me something, daughter, Angie, do you
16:24
Speaker 1: know since I met my husband when I was in college,
16:30
Speaker 1: his mother and father and I never had one cross word,
16:35
Speaker 1: not one. That's like unheard of. With all of this
16:39
Speaker 1: going on, I don't understand how Josh Powell escaped going
16:46
Speaker 1: to try Oh I don't either. But the years, yeah,
16:50
Speaker 1: the years rock on and nothing happens. And even after
16:53
Speaker 1: Mommy is presumed dead, somehow Josh Powell is allowed visitation,
17:02
Speaker 1: He gets to be with the boys. How did that happen?
17:07
Speaker 1: With clear evidence that he killed Mommy? Crime Stories with
17:25
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, we are talking about the disappearance no. The
17:30
Speaker 1: death of Susan Cox Powell, although her body has never
17:34
Speaker 1: been found. Now we have her killer, her husband, Josh Powell,
17:40
Speaker 1: with the Little Boys. Take a listen to this nine
17:47
Speaker 1: one one call by Elizabeth Griffin Hall, social worker. Hey,
17:52
Speaker 1: I'm on a hypervised visitation for accord or to get it,
17:56
Speaker 1: and I'm something really weird. It happened to kid going
17:58
Speaker 1: into the house and the parents, the biological parent who
18:02
Speaker 1: came as Josh Powell, will not let me in the door.
18:06
Speaker 1: What should I do? It's eight one one nine and
18:11
Speaker 1: I think it's eighty nine. Um, I don't know what
18:15
Speaker 1: the addressive. It's very important for me to know. UM,
18:19
Speaker 1: I can't just gonna let me get in my car
18:21
Speaker 1: and see if I can if I can find it.
18:23
Speaker 1: I'm nothing like this has ever happened before. Um ephisication.
18:31
Speaker 1: So I'm really um shocked and I could care one
18:35
Speaker 1: of the kids crying, but they still wouldn't let me in.
18:39
Speaker 1: But I think I need help right away. He kids
18:42
Speaker 1: on a very swhart release to PFAHF and CPS that's
18:45
Speaker 1: been involved, and this is the sati of thing. He
18:48
Speaker 1: looked right up and close the door. You don't know
18:51
Speaker 1: the address of where you are, and you're babbling on
18:54
Speaker 1: and on and all we're a you're a child, crying
18:57
Speaker 1: and screaming inside. Listen more of that nine one one call.
19:01
Speaker 1: And I'd like to pull out of that driveway because
19:04
Speaker 1: they smelled gasolene and he won't let me in. You
19:08
Speaker 1: want to pull out of the driveway because you smell
19:09
Speaker 1: gasolene that he won't let you. He won't let me in.
19:13
Speaker 1: He won't let you out of the driveway, He won't
19:16
Speaker 1: let me in the house. Who gets in the house
19:19
Speaker 1: and he won't let me in. It's a supervised visit.
19:21
Speaker 1: I understand whose house is it? Josh Powell? Okay, so
19:26
Speaker 1: you don't live there, right? And now I don't you
19:28
Speaker 1: know I'm contracted to the state to provide supervise the visitation,
19:33
Speaker 1: I think. Okay, okay, so you're supposed to be there
19:36
Speaker 1: to supervise Josh Powell's visit with the children. Yes, that's correct.
19:41
Speaker 1: And how did that he's a husband of missing Susan Powell.
19:46
Speaker 1: How does this at the high profile case? How did
19:49
Speaker 1: he How did he gain access to the children? Before
19:52
Speaker 1: you talk? I was one step in back of them. Okay,
19:57
Speaker 1: So how you walked you out. Yeah, put the door
20:01
Speaker 1: right in my face. And Ramner, how did he have
20:06
Speaker 1: the children? Why was he getting to be with the boys?
20:10
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that was a big question in our child.
20:12
Speaker 1: There were forty six red flags as to why he
20:14
Speaker 1: shouldn't have visitation with those kids, one of which was
20:17
Speaker 1: that he killed his wife. Um, and the kids were witnesses,
20:20
Speaker 1: so the kids could be endangered by being witnesses by
20:22
Speaker 1: being with him. But forty six red flags, UM, cps
20:26
Speaker 1: filated their own policies and procedures. They didn't tell the judge,
20:30
Speaker 1: They didn't ask the judge like can we put him,
20:32
Speaker 1: you know, within the home? But they did and he
20:35
Speaker 1: that's when he hatchet in them to death and set
20:37
Speaker 1: them on fire and killed them. And it was an egregious,
20:41
Speaker 1: terrible case and one in which CPS you know, shouldn't
20:44
Speaker 1: hang their head in shame for what they did and
20:47
Speaker 1: what they didn't do. And listen to this, oll I man,
20:51
Speaker 1: when you're calling up the farm, if they one nine,
21:02
Speaker 1: one eighty nine, clartyne, you're not going to let them out. Yeah,
21:09
Speaker 1: there was a man and the children. I just dropped
21:12
Speaker 1: off the Kenny wouldn't let me in the door. A'm
21:14
Speaker 1: line for the perty farm. Okay, I'm gonna get them
21:16
Speaker 1: on the line to knocking up home. Joining me is
21:20
Speaker 1: Sherry Davis, the jury four person on the Cox Powell jury. Sherry, again,
21:25
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Mister and
21:28
Speaker 1: miss Cox sued Washington's Apartment of Social and Health Services
21:32
Speaker 1: after Josh Powell murdered his two little boys and blew
21:36
Speaker 1: up the home. Why did you believe they were responsible?
21:41
Speaker 1: In part, they did not follow their own policies and
21:44
Speaker 1: procedures that they had in their manuals. They did not
21:46
Speaker 1: properly train their employees, They did not have a solid
21:51
Speaker 1: safety plan. They were one hundred percent were responsible for
21:55
Speaker 1: those children, and they lost custody as soon as that
21:57
Speaker 1: door slammed. Did you hear her on the phone not
22:00
Speaker 1: knowing the address, falling around, moving her own car so
22:03
Speaker 1: should be safe while the boys are in there, crying
22:06
Speaker 1: and screaming. Yeah, that was very hard to listen to.
22:11
Speaker 1: But they knew that he was a risk. Because they
22:13
Speaker 1: knew that he was a flight risk, they knew the background.
22:17
Speaker 1: Certainly there should have been a safety plan so that
22:20
Speaker 1: the nine one one operator, the police department, anybody would
22:24
Speaker 1: be easily warned if there was a problem in situation
22:28
Speaker 1: that happened. What I don't understand, Miss Davis with me
22:32
Speaker 1: is Sherry Davis Jury four person on the Cox Powell jury,
22:36
Speaker 1: is how Josh Powell got to be with the boys
22:40
Speaker 1: unsupervised to start with, I don't know either. That's a
22:44
Speaker 1: great question. I mean the father in law, his father
22:48
Speaker 1: had all those pornographic images and he had the boys
22:52
Speaker 1: in the home where the father was he's a sex offender.
22:57
Speaker 1: But Josh Powell let his chill be around a sex offender.
23:02
Speaker 1: And not only that, he killed Susan. I mean, when
23:06
Speaker 1: you were listening to the evidence, what possible excuse did
23:10
Speaker 1: Defects Department, Family Shoulder Services give? Oh, they blamed it
23:14
Speaker 1: on everybody else but themselves. Everybody else. They blamed on
23:19
Speaker 1: the sheriff and the police department not exchanging information. But
23:24
Speaker 1: when it comes down to it, it's their own policies
23:28
Speaker 1: and procedures that failed those children, you know, Miss Davis,
23:33
Speaker 1: I was just list I just play which you're sure
23:35
Speaker 1: you heard the Defects workers saying he is on a
23:41
Speaker 1: very short leash? Which Child's services you know, is Josh
23:45
Speaker 1: Powell of the famous Susan Cox Powell case she went missing.
23:50
Speaker 1: Clearly they knew what had happened, they knew all the details.
23:55
Speaker 1: But yet they still let the boys in, the boys
23:58
Speaker 1: in his clutches. Yes, yes, they've still allowed it. And
24:04
Speaker 1: this is the result of that. That's all on them.
24:07
Speaker 1: The big bombshell right now, Miss Davis, is that a
24:13
Speaker 1: judge has intervened in your verdict? What was your verdict?
24:18
Speaker 1: After hearing what happened to Brandon and Charlie, we unanimously
24:23
Speaker 1: as a jury found the state liable for the deaths
24:29
Speaker 1: of them. And in the jury questions, we were asked
24:34
Speaker 1: how much we would award the state, and we awarded
24:39
Speaker 1: the states one hundred and fifteen or we awarded the pals,
24:45
Speaker 1: the states of the boys one hundred and fifteen million dollars.
24:48
Speaker 1: So after hearing million dollars five million dollars? What five
24:52
Speaker 1: million dollars for every minute that they lost custody and
24:57
Speaker 1: the children until that house exploded before they were relinquished
25:01
Speaker 1: of their responsibilities. And isn't it true, Miss Davis, that
25:06
Speaker 1: you guys learned that the boys not only endured the
25:10
Speaker 1: explosion in the home, but their next had been chopped
25:13
Speaker 1: as well. I want the last of them, Miss Davis.
25:18
Speaker 1: When you and your jury awarded one hundred million dollar
25:24
Speaker 1: verdict to Susan Cox's parents over what defects put them
25:29
Speaker 1: through resulting in the death of the two boys, did
25:33
Speaker 1: you ever imagine that another judge would come along and
25:37
Speaker 1: tamper with your verdict? No, never, never would have thought
25:41
Speaker 1: that would ever have happened, Miss Davis. If you could
25:44
Speaker 1: just stay with us one more minute, LEVI page, explain
25:48
Speaker 1: what has happened in the last days to the verdict
25:52
Speaker 1: that Sherry Davis and her jury awarded. So the judge
25:55
Speaker 1: in the case, Judge Wamba, said that he thought that
25:58
Speaker 1: the jury was going by their passions in setting such
26:03
Speaker 1: a high dollar verdict, and he said, quote, it's not
26:06
Speaker 1: the size of the verdict alone, most certainly that is
26:09
Speaker 1: an indicator. It's whether the size of the verdict, in
26:12
Speaker 1: light of the evidence produced, shocks the conscious of the court,
26:16
Speaker 1: and in this case it does so. Judge Rumback cut
26:20
Speaker 1: the jury's award to thirty two point eight million dollars
26:24
Speaker 1: to Susan's family. Time stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we
26:45
Speaker 1: are talking about not only the disappearance and presumed death
26:48
Speaker 1: of Susan Cox Powell, but the horrible brutal butchering of
26:53
Speaker 1: her two little boys at the hand of her husband.
26:56
Speaker 1: With me the jury four person Sherry Davis, Miss Davis,
27:01
Speaker 1: when you learned the judge had cut your verdict, after
27:06
Speaker 1: all the days, all the hours, the deliberation is suffering
27:09
Speaker 1: the jury went through hearing all of this, What did
27:13
Speaker 1: you think? I felt like, why even have a jury
27:16
Speaker 1: if you're going to throw this out? Why even put
27:20
Speaker 1: us through all of this and then just say, well,
27:22
Speaker 1: you know whatever, Okay, we're going to reduce it. It
27:25
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense in your mind, Miss Davis. What did
27:30
Speaker 1: your fellow jurars go through? What bothered the jury the
27:35
Speaker 1: most as they heard the facts unfold? It was the
27:38
Speaker 1: negligent of the state and all their processes that occurred
27:44
Speaker 1: to lead us up to that point. What happened when
27:48
Speaker 1: that door slimmed. We were not being We were not
27:51
Speaker 1: judging that. That was not part of what we were considering.
27:54
Speaker 1: We were considering was the state liable? And how did
27:59
Speaker 1: they lose custody of those children? And why did they
28:01
Speaker 1: let those jewels be with Josh in his own home.
28:06
Speaker 1: That's what we were judging in your mind, Miss Davis,
28:11
Speaker 1: what stuck out is the clearest problem with Josh Powell
28:18
Speaker 1: having the boys every visitation that he had in a
28:23
Speaker 1: state run facility, he was pushing the point of what
28:27
Speaker 1: he could get away with, and every time it was
28:32
Speaker 1: something else. That was bringing knife to cut pumpkins, it
28:36
Speaker 1: was bringing a hammer who work on a project weapon.
28:43
Speaker 1: He was bringing weapons to every visitation. How come that
28:46
Speaker 1: was not stopped and then they still allowed him to
28:49
Speaker 1: have visitation anybody, Miss Davis, with me a special guest
28:54
Speaker 1: Jury four person on the trial in the last hour,
28:57
Speaker 1: a stunning, stunning blow to the vic family. A judge
29:02
Speaker 1: in all of his so called wisdom, slashes the jury
29:07
Speaker 1: award to the Cox family after losing not only their
29:10
Speaker 1: daughter but their two grand boys to murder at the
29:15
Speaker 1: hands of their son in law. Miss Davis, what do
29:19
Speaker 1: you believe after hearing the evidence pushed Josh Powell over
29:24
Speaker 1: the edge that ended in the murder of his two boys.
29:29
Speaker 1: I think it was accumulation of different things. The Utah
29:33
Speaker 1: was getting close to a possible arrest, the photos were
29:38
Speaker 1: going to be released that were found on his home
29:40
Speaker 1: in Utah, and he was being postponed from getting the
29:45
Speaker 1: children's custody back. He was having to post from a
29:49
Speaker 1: psychosexual evaluation. I think it was accumulation of a whole
29:53
Speaker 1: bunch of different things that just pushed the button. And Bremner,
29:58
Speaker 1: what does she mean? You've explained this to me before
30:01
Speaker 1: about Josh Powell was about to undergo a psycho sexual
30:05
Speaker 1: evaluation and what would that mean to him? I think
30:08
Speaker 1: Sherry Davis is right now, She's absolutely right, and it
30:12
Speaker 1: would mean a polygraph, and that was what he heared most,
30:15
Speaker 1: a polygraph that could include questions about sis and Powell
30:18
Speaker 1: under disappearance. Nancy, can I interject there were stimulated child pornography,
30:25
Speaker 1: cartoon child pornography found on his computer, along with bestiality
30:31
Speaker 1: pornography and incests pornography. That's why he was having to
30:34
Speaker 1: undergo a psychosexual evaluation. And that's the man who had
30:38
Speaker 1: supervised the visitation with his kids. And did the jury
30:44
Speaker 1: know about the child sex porn simulation and the bestiality videos?
30:52
Speaker 1: Did the jury hear that? Yeah? And there were foreigner
30:54
Speaker 1: damages Nancy on Josh's computer in Utah. They called a
30:59
Speaker 1: cartoon porn but it was pretty graphic. And of course
31:01
Speaker 1: Steve Pale had all kinds of pornography in the house
31:04
Speaker 1: where the children resided. We called that house of horrors.
31:07
Speaker 1: There was a new singing from the ceiling gallows and
31:10
Speaker 1: all kinds of pornography in that house. So there was
31:14
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence of pornography connected to Josh Powell.
31:20
Speaker 1: Shake to listen to our fran Bin Tricy at CBS News.
31:23
Speaker 1: As Arson investigators continued to search through what's left of
31:27
Speaker 1: the Powell home, the medical examiner now says seven year
31:30
Speaker 1: old Charlie in five year old Braden Powell suffered chop
31:33
Speaker 1: injuries to their head and necks. The sheriff says their father,
31:37
Speaker 1: Josh Powell, then started the house on fire. We found
31:40
Speaker 1: two five gallon cans of gas. One of them was
31:43
Speaker 1: with the bodies, the other one we believe was spread
31:46
Speaker 1: throughout the house. There was accelerants throughout the whole entire
31:49
Speaker 1: house police. Before he carried out the murder suicide, Powell
31:53
Speaker 1: donated his son's toys to charity and left instructions about
31:56
Speaker 1: his personal effects in multiple emails. He sent some mels
32:00
Speaker 1: out to family and a pastor and some other people,
32:03
Speaker 1: making sure that everybody knew that he was gone that
32:06
Speaker 1: he was the one that did this. He had put
32:08
Speaker 1: a plan in motion and he carried it out. Powell
32:11
Speaker 1: had been under police scrutiny following the suspicious disappearance of
32:14
Speaker 1: his wife, Susan Cox Powell from their Utah home in
32:17
Speaker 1: December two thousand and nine. Six days ago, he lost
32:20
Speaker 1: a battle with Susan's parents for custody of his sons.
32:24
Speaker 1: It's hard for men to believe Joseph Scott Morgan. There
32:26
Speaker 1: was not enough evidence to take Josh Powell to trial
32:31
Speaker 1: for murder the murder of Susan Cox Powell. Yeah, yeah, no, kid,
32:35
Speaker 1: And Nancy, I'm I'm just absolutely struck by this idea
32:39
Speaker 1: that the state, the state mandates that, you know, this
32:44
Speaker 1: guy be treated in a particular way, and they don't
32:46
Speaker 1: follow up with it. Well, if you've got enough information
32:50
Speaker 1: that gives you that this guy is a deviant to
32:52
Speaker 1: begin with, and then you have this poor woman who
32:55
Speaker 1: has been missing for years, how can you not move
32:59
Speaker 1: forward with a case. And one other thing, I just
33:02
Speaker 1: want to kind of circle back to here, Nancy. We
33:04
Speaker 1: talked about this wet spot that was on the sofa
33:08
Speaker 1: with Susan much earlier, and you know, the idea here
33:12
Speaker 1: for me at least, is that she was attacked and
33:14
Speaker 1: what do we know about these boys for the medical examiner,
33:17
Speaker 1: they were attacked with an instrument that was a chopping instrument. Nancy.
33:21
Speaker 1: I think that just like a lot of these cases
33:24
Speaker 1: that we see, these perpetrators utilize a particular methodology for
33:29
Speaker 1: killing somebody that they get comfortable with, and this is
33:32
Speaker 1: a close and personal Nancy. I think that he probably
33:35
Speaker 1: applied this before Susan, and he applied this to these
33:38
Speaker 1: babies as well, before he set their bodies on fire.
33:42
Speaker 1: Rose win Quist, investigator at Winquist Investigations dot com. I
33:47
Speaker 1: just heard that Josh Powell has sent emails to people,
33:53
Speaker 1: including a pastor, about what was to become of his family.
33:59
Speaker 1: People that guy. These emails didn't act on it was
34:02
Speaker 1: it wasn't it clear that a tragedy was impending, Yes, Nancy,
34:08
Speaker 1: I think it was very clear, especially he I think
34:12
Speaker 1: he made a couple of phone calls as well. They
34:14
Speaker 1: were simultaneously I think sent so that people didn't really
34:20
Speaker 1: have enough time to act, and he just went about
34:27
Speaker 1: pouring the gas in the house. I think that probably
34:29
Speaker 1: happened before he even sent emails or made songe calls,
34:33
Speaker 1: but it was clear that he was saying goodbye and
34:36
Speaker 1: that he was responsible for killing his children and himself.
34:43
Speaker 1: To Chuck Cox, this is Susan's dad. When you look
34:49
Speaker 1: back on everything that happened, and now a judge has
34:56
Speaker 1: come along and slashed the vartic, it's not just about
34:59
Speaker 1: the money, it's the point. What goes through your mind,
35:04
Speaker 1: mister Cox, Well, nothing he's going to bring back to
35:08
Speaker 1: Charlie Bradner Susan. However, we were planning on making a
35:14
Speaker 1: legacy or using the funds to do a legacy in
35:17
Speaker 1: their behalf and to address the issues the follow the
35:24
Speaker 1: problems of GSHS, how they were not following their policies
35:28
Speaker 1: and we wanted to make sure that this doesn't happen
35:32
Speaker 1: to other children, because if they're not following their policies,
35:36
Speaker 1: they will continue to put children in danger, they will
35:39
Speaker 1: continue to have these issues. And so we were battling
35:43
Speaker 1: that those issues, and it's just the judge rumba in
35:50
Speaker 1: this case. He started out clearly as in favor of
35:53
Speaker 1: the state position, and as hit the more he learned,
35:58
Speaker 1: he came back to more towards neutral, But in the
36:02
Speaker 1: end he just turned around and went back to his
36:05
Speaker 1: bias and substituting his opinion for the jury. He was
36:12
Speaker 1: not the trier of fact in this case. The jury
36:15
Speaker 1: was a trier of fact. And that's why we wanted
36:18
Speaker 1: a jury trial because we were not getting an unbiased
36:25
Speaker 1: trier of fact with the judges. They all worked for
36:28
Speaker 1: the state and so that's very difficult to do. So
36:32
Speaker 1: here we got the jury, and now the judge takes
36:35
Speaker 1: it on himself to just reduce everything and basically try
36:39
Speaker 1: and make it go away. And that's what everyone's done
36:42
Speaker 1: with these children in the whole case, is trying to
36:44
Speaker 1: make it go away. People have not done their jobs.
36:48
Speaker 1: So I don't know what I can say about except
36:52
Speaker 1: for the jury did a great job and we want
36:55
Speaker 1: to make sure that we support them and appeal this
37:02
Speaker 1: arbitrary decision of the judge and he gets things back
37:06
Speaker 1: one where the jury found. Pierce County Superior Court Judge
37:11
Speaker 1: Stanley Rumball has basically and I don't know want the
37:16
Speaker 1: twins say this pissed on the jury verdict and Bremner,
37:23
Speaker 1: please tell me you are appealing this. We are Nancy,
37:26
Speaker 1: I mean he said it was unconscious, passionate, prejudice. As
37:31
Speaker 1: you knew well known, Nancy, it has to be manifest
37:33
Speaker 1: to overturn a jury's verdict, I mean jury verdicts. Or
37:36
Speaker 1: Sack was saying, this jury served to the pandemic five
37:40
Speaker 1: weeks before five months hiatus, and they came back for
37:43
Speaker 1: three more weeks in a socially distance trial with mass On.
37:46
Speaker 1: I mean, they were an amazing once in a lifetime jury.
37:49
Speaker 1: And you heard Sherry, She's incredible, and that that sacrifice,
37:53
Speaker 1: that attention, that diligence that they showed. He just decided
37:57
Speaker 1: to slash the verdict by two thirty. I don't think
37:59
Speaker 1: he shouldn't even be on the bench. Pierce County Superior
38:02
Speaker 1: Court Judge Stanley Rumball, he needs to be off the bench.
38:07
Speaker 1: And I'm very surprised there has not been a recall effort.
38:10
Speaker 1: What exactly is the county in the jurisdiction where he is,
38:13
Speaker 1: Pierce County, Washington, What Tacoma, Pierce County, Pierce County, and
38:18
Speaker 1: that's in Washington, Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington. I'm very surprised there's
38:24
Speaker 1: not a recall effort for this judge. We wait as
38:29
Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime story signing off goodbye friend,