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That's Just What I Needed Podcast - How to Stop Comparing Yourself to Others and Find Freedom with Heather Creekmore · LifeAudio

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is Donna Jones, and you are listening to That's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Just What I Needed. Hey, friend, if you've ever been
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, wow, that
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: was just what I needed, you know how life-giving that
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: can be. Well, that's what this podcast is all about.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We're women who want to know, love, and follow God
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just how to
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: do it. So each week, we'll talk about what Paul
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and God looks like in the midst of daily demands
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what we need.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: It's actually exactly what we need. Hey, hey, my friend,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. Well, as you know, this
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: podcast is titled, That's Just What I Needed. And today's conversation...
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: is pretty much what we all need because we are
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: tackling the topic of comparison. Let me tell you a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: little bit about today's guest. Her name is Heather Creekmore.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Heather is a podcaster and she is an author. She's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: written this great new book called The Comparison-Free Life. And
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the subtitle is How to Stop Comparing and Find Joy, Peace,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and Rest. Doesn't that sound like a little slice of
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: heaven that I know we can all benefit from? Heather
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: makes her home in Austin, Texas with her husband and
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: her four teenagers, and it is my joy to welcome
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: to the podcast my new friend, Heather Creekmore. Well, Heather,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, Donna, it's so fun to be with you today.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: We were having so much fun before we even hit
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: record because you're my people.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Tell us where you live. I live in Austin, Texas.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: And you are a fellow podcaster and you are a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: fellow pastor's wife and a fellow author.
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  Speaker 2: So we have so much in common.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: You have written this great book called The Comparison-Free Life. Okay,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: and here's the subtitle, which I love because this gets
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: down and dirty and practical. The subtitle is How to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Stop Comparing and Find Joy, Peace, and Rest. Okay, so
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I can just imagine everybody leaning forward and like, oh,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: she's going to help me bag this whole comparison thing
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: and find joy, peace, and rest. Okay, I'm in it
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: for those of you, I'm in it. So tell me
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: why you even decided to write a book on this.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: What's your personal journey?
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: We all have a story, right, Donna? And mine is
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I said the sinner's prayer and knew I was a Christian,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: probably age three-ish. Before I learned to tie my shoes,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I think I probably said the sinner's prayer
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: a couple dozen times just to be sure. And so
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I was raised in a Christian home. I went to
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Christian schools. I knew all the Christian answers for all
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the things. But then I had this struggle and it
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: was a struggle that I thought was kind of completely
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: separate from my Christian God and Jesus answers kind of life.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: And that was a struggle with my body, with my appearance.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And I mean, we all struggle in that way, right?
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Like it, you know, felt to me like this was
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: just because I was a woman. This was just a
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: woman's issue. And my mom struggled and my aunt struggled
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: and my grandma, like every woman I knew was dealing
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: with this. And they all had their God and Jesus
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: answers down. And so why would it be any different
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: for me? And so I really had segmented my struggle
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: with body, which eventually became a struggle with food and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: an eating disorder and all kinds of crazy behaviors. And
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I say crazy, but they're so normative. I mean, I
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: was just doing what everyone else was doing. But all
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the things, trying to improve myself, trying to make myself
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: look better, trying to make myself be better, trying to
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: perfect an image. And that was just a completely different
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: part of my life than what I thought I was
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: doing in terms of going to Jesus and serving at
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: church and being a good Christian girl. And so I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: really just thought this was the way it was going
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: to have to be. Things like comparison and embodiment issues
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: were just things I was always going to struggle with because,
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  Speaker 2: like I said, I had the God and Jesus answer.
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  Speaker 2: I knew I was going to heaven. And it wasn't
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  Speaker 2: until I was in my mid-30s and I heard a teaching,
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  Speaker 2: that I'd never heard before around idolatry and modern day idolatry.
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  Speaker 2: And it wasn't audible, Donna, but like I very much
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: felt the Holy Spirit say, Heather, this is your problem.
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  Speaker 2: You have made your body an idol. And man, that
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  Speaker 2: changed everything for me because candidly, and this isn't the
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  Speaker 2: answer anyone loves, but I didn't think I had a
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  Speaker 2: sin issue, right? I mean, being a good steward of
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: your body and trying to look better and like, that's
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: not really sin, is it? And in some cases it's not.
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  Speaker 2: So please don't hear me wrong. But the way I
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: had treated it in my life, the way I had
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  Speaker 2: prioritized it in my life, the way I had looked
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  Speaker 2: to improving myself and what I look like in my life,
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  Speaker 2: and I prioritized that above everything else, I had made
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  Speaker 2: it an idol. And so God took me on a journey,
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  Speaker 2: like I said, mid-30s forward, where He really showed me
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  Speaker 2: all the other things I was worshiping. And honestly, all
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the other things I was expecting to deliver. Peace, joy, rest, satisfaction.
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  Speaker 2: opened the doorway to love I never knew like all
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  Speaker 2: of these things and none of it was like front
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  Speaker 2: of mind it was all like oh wow god you're
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: right like I do actually believe that if I looked
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: better I would have more joy, peace, rest, and love.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I do actually believe that if I could just like
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: get this part of my life more organized or I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: could just like be better in this area or like
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: just improve this, then everything would be better. And really, Donna,
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  Speaker 2: like when we talk about comparison, right, that's what's underneath
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: it all. is this belief that if I were better
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  Speaker 2: like her, or for some of us, okay, as we're aging,
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  Speaker 2: if I could be better like I was 10 years ago,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: or like I was 20 years ago, right? Either way,
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  Speaker 2: it's all comparison. But if I could be better like that, then...
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: and insert whatever dream you think will be fulfilled here.
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  Speaker 2: And that was why I wrote the book. God had
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: taken me on a journey to really see this clearly
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: for what it was. And I want to try this
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: so carefully here because this is such a tough subject.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: But I feel like in the church and, you know,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I'm a pastor's wife like you. And so I love
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the church. I love it with all my heart. Okay.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: But in the church, we tend to just kind of teehee.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I have a comparison issue and just kind of, you know, like, oh, well,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: we all struggle in that way. Oh, oh, shucks. I'm
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: comparing myself again. And we tend to miss this reality
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that no, actually, like it's a sin struggle. that our
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: depraved selves are struggling with. And there's a cure for
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: it because there's a cure for sin, right? That's the
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: good news. Jesus died to cover this sin. But man,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: unless we see it for what it is, we just
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: stay stuck there. Wow.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Okay. As you were just talking, my mind was processing
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: some things. And number one, you said, you used the
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: word improve several times, right? And See, here's where it
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: gets subtle because to improve is a positive thing. It's,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you know, we may even say like that's a godly
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: thing because aren't we supposed to get better and better
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: and better, right? Be more holy, be, well, better, I
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: guess is the word I said, but it really is
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  Speaker 1: the word that describes it.
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  Speaker 2: So this becomes really subtle.
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  Speaker 1: And you mentioned like when we look at maybe the
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: way our body image, the way we look to make
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: us feel better, there is an element like, if I
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: look good, I feel good, right? If my house is
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: is organized and put together, I mean, I feel less chaotic.
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  Speaker 2: I feel better.
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  Speaker 1: This is why it gets really messy because there's kind
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: of an element of truth, but you're saying, I think
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  Speaker 1: if I'm hearing you right, there's that fine line where
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  Speaker 1: you tip over, where it's not just, hey, I'm trying
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  Speaker 1: to look my best or I'm just trying to keep
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  Speaker 1: my house organized. It becomes something that's a driver. for you,
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  Speaker 1: an idol for you. Is that what you're saying?
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  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay, so idols are so sneaky, though. Even in
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: the scenarios you just presented, like, of course I feel
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  Speaker 2: better if I look better. But even in that, Donna,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I would argue we have to be very careful, right?
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  Speaker 2: Because if I take confidence in the way I look...
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  Speaker 2: Who is my confidence in? It's in me. It's in myself.
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  Speaker 2: And I am a horrible place to put confidence in, right?
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  Speaker 2: So the word pistis in Greek, in scripture, is the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: word that is used throughout the New Testament for either faith, belief,
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  Speaker 2: or confidence. right? In the Old Testament, the word would
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: be trust or do the equivalent. And so we read
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: through the New Testament places about having belief or trusting
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: in God or having confidence in Him, right? It's all
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the same word. Where as Americans, we tend to say
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: things like, well, I believe God, but man, it's hard
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: to trust Him. That's actually not biblically accurate. It's all
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the same word, okay? So if you believe Him, then
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: your trust must be in Him and your confidence must
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  Speaker 2: be in him. And so that subtle line you're talking about,
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  Speaker 2: it is subtle because idle slash sneaky, like I said,
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  Speaker 2: we really have to constantly be examining our motives and
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  Speaker 2: actually seeing God search my heart because it's deceitful. I'm
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  Speaker 2: not actually going to be able to see what's there
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  Speaker 2: most of the time. And asking him to do that
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  Speaker 2: because it's so easy for us to take confidence in
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  Speaker 2: our accomplishments. Or take confidence in the way we look
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  Speaker 2: and our confidence 100% and totally actually needs to be
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: in the Lord. And that's good news because He doesn't change, right? Like,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: goodness gracious, those of us that are aging, I did
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: a devotional on aging. I've got a second devotional on
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: aging coming out. So I talk a lot about aging.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I hear a lot about aging from women that I
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: work with, right? Like, if my confidence is in how
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I look at age 40, I am not going to
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: look the same at age 60. It's impossible. And so
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: my confidence is going to what? Wane, right? It's going
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: to disappear. I can hang on to it. I mean,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I can try. I can try to do some things.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: At the end of the day, a 60-year-old and a
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  Speaker 2: 40-year-old do not look the same. And so if my
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  Speaker 2: confidence is in me and the way I look, it's
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: going to fade. If my confidence is in the Lord,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: it's never changing. And then that gives me confidence that, okay, aging, goodness,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: it happened to me. Hormones hit all at once. I
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: thought my 40s were awesome. I'm like 50 game. And
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, what is this? I thought I
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: had avoided this. But I mean, the worst happened. right?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You're in an accident. You have a stroke. Something happens
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  Speaker 2: that changes the way you look and your confidence doesn't
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: have to disappear because it was never in that thing
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: to begin with. Does that clarify a little? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm really glad we're going there because I think
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: that as I'm listening to you and other people are
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: listening to our conversation, I bet you for the first
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: time they're like, huh, I've never really thought of this
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: in this way before. So it's kind of one of
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: those eye-opening, heart-opening moments. And what I love about your
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: book is you walk us through how to stop comparing.
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  Speaker 1: Because I think to your point, this is so normal
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  Speaker 1: in society. being a woman and even being a Christian woman,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that we don't even think about it. We don't even
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: think about the possibility that I could live comparison-free. So
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break, and when we
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: come back, you're going to give us some hard-fought things
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that you have learned about how to actually live comparison-free. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so Heather, you've been telling us that comparison really is
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a heart issue. It's a sin issue. It's an idol issue,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: but there's hope for that. So walk us through, if
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: we're listening right now and we're like, oh yeah, I
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: guess I do compare. And we've been focusing on body,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: but you can compare lots of different things. You can
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: compare your home. You can compare your job. You can
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: compare your kids. You can compare your relationship status, whether
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you're married, not married. I mean, there's so many things
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: that we can compare, right? Our intellect, our education. I mean,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: the list goes on and on and on and on.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So walk us through. Somebody is listening right now and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: they're like, yep, I struggle with comparison. Okay, what's she
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: supposed to do?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Talk to her right now. Okay, so step one is
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: not a fun step, but this is the only path
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  Speaker 2: that we have to freedom, which is confess it as sin, right?
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  Speaker 2: So it is normal to compare yourself. That's absolutely true. Psychologically, human-wise,
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  Speaker 2: this is what we do. And yet, the life of
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: faith is not calling us to be normal and average
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: and just like everyone else. In the life of faith,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: we're called to something different. God's kingdom is an upside-down kingdom.
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  Speaker 2: And we are called to live differently. And so... Saying, okay, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I compare myself. And oh, actually, hidden in that comparison
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: are things that God clearly lists in scripture as sin,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: like envy, like jealousy, which those are two different concepts.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And I talk about that in the book. But the
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: worst one, oh, Donna, this is the worst one. I
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: hate talking about it, but it's just so out there.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: It's pride, right? Like sometimes I compare myself because I
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: know I'm going to do better than you. I'm going
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to be like, oh, look, I'm beating her. And it's
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: like a little shot of, ooh, a shot of ego. Like, yeah,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I'm winning. And that works until you find someone who's
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: beating you. And then it's like, oh, I'm the worst
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: because she's so far ahead. But all of it, according
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: to scripture, covetousness, like, man, I wish I had apps
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: like hers. Well, that's Don't coveting, I go back to
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: the Old Testament, don't covet your neighbor's donkey. That's coveting
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: part of your neighbor as if it were a possession, right?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: We're objectifying a sister in Christ or a woman on
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: the screen. And we're saying, I wish I had that
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: thing she has. And it's all sin. So step one
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: is just being like, wow, goodness. I mean, Donna, I
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: don't know about you, but for me, I was like,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I was a pretty good girl. I didn't really think
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I had like a rap sheet of sin I was
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: stuck in. But man, I was stuck in comparison.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know what? What it reminds me is
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: that comparison is very self-focused.
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  Speaker 2: That's why you said.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: It's the idol of self, because it's totally looking inward
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and only looking outward to see how do I measure
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: up compared to you. So it's very, very self-focused, which
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: is why it's pride, right?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Right. And you're not supposed to be my standard. Like,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to be doing better compared to you
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: or compared to her. Right. It's like, man, only God's
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: word is my standard. And so it distracts us from
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the actual comparison we're supposed to do, which is, well,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: how am I doing on looking like Jesus? Oh, not
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: very well. Right. But that's the area we're supposed to
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: compare ourselves to, not between sisters. Right.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And then we pit ourselves against other women. And like
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: you said, it either ends up we feel great because
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: we feel like we're ahead of her in some way,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: or we feel terrible because we feel like she's so
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: far ahead of us. And both of those thoughts... lead
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: to feelings. It's really, it's a prison, and which is
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: why there's no rest, there's no joy, there's no peace,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and it's a never-ending prison. So first you're saying, in
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: order to get out of that prison, which by the way,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just piggyback on something here I just learned.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know where I learned this, but comparison's always
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: been around, right, since biblical times. However, but it's been
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: heightened because do you know that there was no such
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: thing as advertising really, until, I don't know, like 150
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: years ago, because we had an agricultural society. And then
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: when it became industrial, and then it was like people
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: were selling things, they had to make you think, oh,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: your life will be less than if you don't have
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: this widget. And so we need to create something called
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: advertising and marketing to make you feel like you're less
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: than if you don't have that so that you will
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: buy it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: So it will drive our economy. And all of this stuff.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's so fascinating how our
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: culture has really played into this.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: And then we bought it hook, line, and sinker. Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So what you're talking about is Dale Carnegie in the
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: 1920s wrote a book called How to Win Friends and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Influence People. And that was really the turning point for
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: us to create a society that was focused on image
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: instead of virtue. So 100 years ago, right, you admired
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: someone because they were honest, right? or hardworking, or had integrity,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: or patience, right? All of these biblical qualities. And about
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: 100 years ago, enter the advent of marketing and advertising
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: to just piggyback the Foundation Carnegie headset with how to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: be a good salesperson, we started valuing image. I respect
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and admire and notice the woman who looks good. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: don't know if she's patient. I don't know if she's
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: got integrity, but she looks good. And that's what I admire.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It's really recent. Like you said, it's fascinating. But just
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: even a hundred years ago, we would have been like, man,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I wish I was as patient as Donna is.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And we just completely changed the way we're comparing ourselves. Right.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And just think about how social media has played into this.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: This is so good.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: This is amazing.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: So first though, we're all realizing that we're in this
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: boat because we live in this culture and this is
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: part of our reality, but we don't want to stay
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: stuck in it. Jesus does not want us in this prison.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: So first we admit, hey, I have this problem. I
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: have this issue. It's a sin issue, really. It's a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: pride issue because I'm being completely self-focused and not getting
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: my confidence from the Lord.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's number one.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So let's just say somebody's driving down the road right
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: now and they're thinking, okay, yes, Lord, I understand. This
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: is really not from you and I want to get free.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So I'm admitting it right now. So now she's taken
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the step toward freedom. Okay, now walk her through some
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of the other things that she can do.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, so first, like no shame, no condemnation, right?
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: When you confess your sins, he is faithful and just
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: all unrighteousness, right? So you confessed it, you repented, you're
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: on a new path. But let me tell you, on
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: this new path, you're still going to be tempted to compare.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And so one of the things that I walk women through,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I coach women one-on-one. And one of the things that
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: we do is it's idol spotting. Because the areas in
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: which we are tempted to compare ourselves to others are
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: the areas in which we most likely have idols. So
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I do. do not often compare myself to other people
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: in terms of how wealthy they are. And it's not
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: because I'm wealthy. We are solidly middle class, okay? But
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be richer than everyone else. Money
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: is not an idol for me. It's just not something
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: that I am pursuing or Just suck in. Oh man,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: but being skinny is. So watching women walk by who
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: are thinner, I'm like, yeah, how do I do that?
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: How do I be like that? What else can I
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: do to try to become more like that, right? And
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: so in the area in which you are most tempted
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to compare yourself, you will find that a hidden belief.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And that hidden belief is from an idol, right? But
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the hidden belief, so the hidden belief for me, it's
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: not that if I had more wealth, I would be
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: happier or more joyful or more peaceful. The hidden belief
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: for me is I actually believe that rest, peace, and
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: joy are found in wearing a size two or a
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: size four. That's the belief that I wrestle. And so
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: once I find that hidden idol, once I'm just kind
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: of more aware of the ways that I'm comparing myself
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: to others and what those are telling me about my beliefs,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: then I've got more work to do with God because
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: it's more business with him. But it really is this like, oh, goodness, Lord,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I do kind of believe that if I were thinner,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I would have like all these things that you promised
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: to give me. And instead of believing that it comes
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: from you, I do actually kind of believe it comes
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: from a gene size or it comes from a certain
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: title at work or it comes from a certain type
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: of family. Or it comes from my kids achieving a
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: certain thing or getting into a certain college or having
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: a certain career, right? There's all these different ways we
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: compare ourselves will reveal to us something we're believing. So
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I would say step two is look into what you're
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: really believing. And that's what my book that's coming out
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: in February is going to dig into even more is
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: like looking into those false beliefs and how those false
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: beliefs kind of keep us afraid and anxious and always
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: comparing in different areas of our lives. But wherever we compare,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: there's a great quote and it's in that book, Donna,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm not going to remember who said it. I'm
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: going to butcher it just a little bit, but I
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: think you'll get the gist. But when we compare, the
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: heart posture is God cheated me. Like, oh, God gave
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: her a faster metabolism. I'm mad about that. He cheated me.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: God gave her a husband. I'm single. I'm mad about that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: He cheated me. God gave her kids. Can't have any.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: He cheated me. And so it's a belief problem. Do
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I actually believe that God is good? Or do I
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: kind of believe that maybe he's not good to me
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: because I don't have what she has? These are really deep,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: sensitive heart issues that God wants to work with us
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: on so that we can truly be free. But they're deep. Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are deep.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: You have to be willing to do some self-reflection. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: like you said, to be able to spot the idol, like, okay,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: that's an idol for me. And you know, in the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Old Testament, I mean, God said, break them down. So, okay,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: if we spot our idols and we say, what's the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: belief underneath that, that I think this idol is going
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to provide for me? And then spotting, okay, well, how
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: is God the one that actually provides that? I'm guessing
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that's part of the steps as well, right? So let's
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: go with your analogy. So somebody's like, yeah, for me,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: it is the jean size. Or for me, it is
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the house. Or for me, it is the career. Or
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: for me, it is the well-behaved kids or whatever. They've
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: spotted it and they're like, okay, I need to not
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: have that be my idol.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: How do you break it down? How do you demolish it?
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: It's again, back to the confess and repent, but it's
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: a daily cognition slash like prayer exercise of, oh, I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: saw myself in the mirror. I didn't like what I saw.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I immediately started to spiral around like, what should I
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: do with food today? What do I need to do
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: with exercise today? Or just even like negative self-deprecating. And oh,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I'm right back to believing again that I would have
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: a better day. If I saw fewer wrinkles or if
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I saw a different number on the scale. And then
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the question is, okay, well, what's determining how my day goes? Well,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: it's that number on the scale. Well, then who's my God?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Who am I serving? I'm actually serving a little white
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: box on my bathroom floor because that box tells me
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: how I am today. And then wait, is that truth? Well,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: now God actually tells me that I'm his beloved daughter,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: that I'm adopted. I'm chosen in him. He has a
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: plan and a purpose for my life. He made me
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: intentionally knit me together in my mother's room. Knitting is,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not a knitter, but knitting is very precise, right?
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: He knew exactly what he was doing when he made
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: me on purpose for his purpose. Like, actually, God's word
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: has all this truth about who I am. But every
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: day I have to decide, am I going to decide
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: who I am based on that number on that little
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: box in my bathroom? Or am I going to decide
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: who I am based on what God says about me?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And that's the idol toppling process. It's not a one
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and done. I wish it was. I wish I could
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: flip a switch and be like, oh, I'm done with
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: that idol. But it is a daily exercise of, oh, wait,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: here I am again, tempted to believe a lie, tempted
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: to believe that my day will be better if that
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: number is the number that I want to see. which
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: works maybe for 24 hours until you get on it
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: again when you're bloated. Not too much salt. And it's
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: not the number you want to see and then the
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: next day is ruined, right? We're not supposed to live
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: like that. That's how the world lives, but we have
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: a much greater hope and a greater purpose. We don't
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: have to serve the God of the scale or the
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: God of the mirror. We serve the one true God.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: who already tells us that we're valuable and worthy and
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: lovable and all of those things that we desire to
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: hear and know about ourselves. And the scale can't answer
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: those questions. That's good.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: It reminds me, Heather, of something that my husband says
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, everybody at our church knows
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: that he says this and he has for years, is
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: that the truest thing.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: About you is what God says is true.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And then just reminding the truest thing about me is
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: not what people say, not what the scales say, not
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: what my accomplishments say, not what externals say. The truest
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: thing about me is what God says is true. But
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: then also because of comparison is like we mentioned, it's
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: very self-focused. And even that, the truest thing about me
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: is what God says is true. There is an element
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: of self-focus in that. That's probably a healthy self-focus. However,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's only partial because the other half is,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: is the truest thing about God is what God says
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: is true. So it's like taking that focus off myself
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and putting it on God and others. And I think
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that makes a difference, right?
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. So here's the analogy that I use. And
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I think I'm not alone in this, but most women
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: that I know, self-included, we kind of have a list
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: of standards for ourselves, right? Like it's not written down anywhere,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: but it's like, well, Heather is always on time. I'm
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: married to Maureen. This was like a life mantra for us, right?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Like Heather's always on time and Heather dresses well and
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Heather is articulate and Heather keeps her house well only
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: when people come over. You know, and I've got this
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: like list of standards I have for myself, right? And
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: one time I was kind of, you know, doing what
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: we do, right? Beating myself up because I had, oh,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: fallen short of this standard and I didn't do this standard.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And oh my goodness, did I really leave the house
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: like that? And Jesus kind of whispered to me, again,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: not audibly, but like, Heather, whose book is that that
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: you're working from? Whose standards are those? Because I already
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: wrote a book. I have a set of standards and
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: your standards are not the same as my standards. And
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: as I processed and prayed through that, I was like, yeah,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I live by the book of me so much more
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: than I live by God's book, right? I go to
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: bed beating myself up for the ways I fell short
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: of my standards. instead of thinking about, well, how do
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I actually fall short of your standards today, Lord? And
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: not that he would beat me up because he doesn't
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: condemn us, but it's a daily battle to keep my
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: focus on, wait, I'm living for him. I am a servant,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: a slave, even as the word Paul uses to Christ.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: The book of me, I think the best other way
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to think about this, right, is in our culture, we
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: see this concept of my truth all the time, my truth.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And it's super easy for us to be as Christians like, well,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: of course, that's ridiculous. It's God's truth. But how often
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: do I live by my truth is what I think
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: of me? I mean, I work with women coaching them
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: around body image issues every day, really. And women will say, like, okay, well,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: who's upset with the way you look? Is it your husband? Oh, no,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: he loves me. He thinks I'm hot. Okay, is it
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: your children? Like, they're like, man, I wish mom would know.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: That's silly. Your parents? Like, is it, you know, people? Like,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: who's upset with me? I'm upset. I don't look the
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: way I want to look. I am not meeting my
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: own standard. And we kind of go into this, like, okay, well,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: whose truth is that? Is that God's truth? No. Is
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that anyone else's? No. So whose truth are you living by? Okay.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I'm living by my truth. Well, goodness, how are you
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: different than anyone else in culture? I'm not supposed to
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: live by my truth. I'm supposed to live by God's truth.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And so it's all, like you said, it's so subtle, right?
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Because like you said, there's nothing wrong with dressing up
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: or wanting to lose some weight or wanting to like
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: work out harder, get your house organized, or I don't know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: get your kids on the right path. None of those
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: are bad things, but that's what's so hard about idols.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Idols take even good things and turn them into ultimate things.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And it's just in the culture we live in with
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: so much noise and so much influence and so much pressure,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: it's just really hard to step out of that rat
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: race and be like, wait a second, no, I'm supposed
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: to do things different. I'm actually supposed to invite God's truth,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: not my truth. I'm actually supposed to live in a
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: different way, not stuck in comparison, not stuck in envy, jealousy, pride, covetousness.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I'm actually supposed to live by God's grace and believe
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: the truth that, man, He made me on purpose for
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: His good purpose. His book is sufficient. His way is sufficient.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: His path is the path that will lead me to
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the joy, peace, and rest and love that I really,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: really crave. And I don't have to live as if
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: it's all on me. He has enough.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And that sounds like the path to freedom to me.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Truly the path to freedom and peace and joy that
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: you've been talking about. So Heather, as we're winding up here,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: tell our listening friends how they can connect with you,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: how they can find more about your ministry, and maybe
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: get a copy of this book.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: The book and all of my books are available everywhere.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Books are sold on Amazon. My last name is Creekmore, C-R-E-E-K-M-O-R-E.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: So you can look me up at heathercreekmore.com. If you're
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: looking for help specifically around body image issues, improvebodyimage.com is
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the site I coach from. I've got free plans on YouVersion.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I've got a podcast called Compared to Who. But if
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: you put my name into the internet, you'll find all
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: my stuff. Perfect, perfect.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Well, Heather, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: with us. And wow, you've given us so much to process,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: so much to think about. And I really hope that
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: all of us that have listened to your wisdom will
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: process some of these things that you have said and
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: that we'll start living more free. And I love particularly,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: are we living by the book of me or by
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: God's book? I guess you could say the book of he.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing. It has been
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: just such a delight to have you on the show.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Thanks. It's been my pleasure. Well, wasn't that a great episode? Boy,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: we all deal with comparison, don't we?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And hopefully after today's conversation, we have a better handle
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: on how to stop comparison from robbing us of enjoying
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: our own life. Just as a reminder, I would love
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to connect with you on social media. You'll find me
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: at Donna A. Jones on Instagram, Donna Jones Speaker and
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Author on Facebook, or go to my website, donnajones.org. You
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: can sign up.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: For my free newsletter.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I have lots of free resources over there, as well
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: as my speaking schedule. And I would love to connect
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: with you at one of my events. And as always,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: my friend, I can't wait to see you next time
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: for That's Just What I Needed.