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Finding Joy in the Journey: Kasi & Chuck Wicks on Raising an Autistic Child · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:03
  Speaker A: Today on the Instones podcast, I have Cassie and Chuck Wicks here. Cassie came into my life just as a fellow fun mom friend who she and I share a soulmate. But we don't need to talk about Kristen right now. Cassie and Chuck are here today because we share something else. We both have young, little, perfect, autistic little boys. Cassie and Chuck, thank you so much for being here to vulnerably share your story and also talk about these amazingly incredible little people, little humans we created that we were not expecting and yet become the life lens, undirected points of our lives. So, Cassie and Chuck, thank you for being here today.
• 0:43
  Speaker B: Thanks for having us. Yes, it's definitely been a journey. You're like, I feel like my crutch, like my go to person because I've seen your journey for so many years. And then we were facing a similar situation. I was like, I don't know what to do here. So you were definitely my first phone call. And so I'm so thankful for you. And I'm going to try not to get emotional.
• 1:11
  Speaker A: I know we're going to be like, we're going to be sponsored by Kleenex after this.
• 1:14
  Speaker B: I know. But truly your story and how you have been so open about your journey and just, you know, the challenges that can come along with that too.
• 1:27
  Speaker C: That.
• 1:27
  Speaker B: That was really helpful. Even, just, like, even before we got the autism diagnosis with Tucker, it, like, helped open my eyes to what was going on with him because you were so open and then, you know, further looking into other people's stories. So hopefully, if anything, this helps others who may be facing a new diagnosis or are in the thick of it and we're just all in it together. Right.
• 1:55
  Speaker A: Share about what that looked like for you because, you know, I was. I remember, you know, Kristin going to visit you and coming back and going, cassie's gonna give you a call. And I remember thinking, what is she gonna give me a call about? Talk to me about what it felt like as a couple when you started to notice.
• 2:13
  Speaker C: Hmm.
• 2:15
  Speaker A: We were not really sure what waters we're treading in right now.
• 2:18
  Speaker B: I think for me, I started noticing it on my own first because I am so close to you and Kristin. So I started. My eyes were kind of already open and having other children, you know, had nurse before. So I just knew, like, I knew he was a boy, but I'm like, something still just doesn't feel right. And I couldn't, like, put my finger on what it was exactly at first because he was so little. And then So I feel like I was internally processing it for a while, and then I would, like, show Chuck videos. I'm like, look at this kid. Look at this. And, you know, so he went, yeah, But I don't know, he had a little more hesitation in the beginning than I did, because once I knew, I was like, I know this is it, and we need to figure something, you know, figure out what's going on. Exactly.
• 3:04
  Speaker C: When you find out your son's on the spectrum for autism, you. You're like, what does that mean? It's kind of freaks you out. You know, we. We knew Tucker wasn't had delayed speech for sure, and he. He would stem a lot. You know, he would. You get over overstimulated and start screaming with his hands at a really young age. And I knew that was different. I'm like, that's. That is different. I'm not sure what that means. And when we got the diagnosis, it was just like, immediately for me, I was just like, great, let's. Let's go. Let's tackle it. Let's. What do we got to do? Because, you know, Tucker's my guy. He's my dude. You know, I. We. When just Tucker is a miracle for us, I mean, go back before he was even trying to be born, we had to do, you know, ivf and, you know, long story short, there was. We only had one. I only had one sperm, and it was Tucker. We literally won. Yeah, we had one viable sperm through the IVF process and that and the one egg that fertilized it. So it was Tucker. So from day one, Tucker has been our. Our. Our guy, our miracle boy. Even right before he was born, I think it was like, maybe two weeks or three weeks. We took the last ultrasound, and the doctor says, hey, you know, his arms are at a 1 percentile as far as how big they should be. And we're like, well, what does that mean? Because this is the first time we've ever heard this in the pregnancy. Well, he might come out with, like, no arm.
• 4:38
  Speaker B: They.
• 4:39
  Speaker C: They really small arm. So we've had hurdles from day one. You know, nothing. We. But no matter what the hurdle was, we're always like, it's. Hey, this is our. This is our guy. This is our boy. Let's go. We'll tackle it. So we've, you know, it's tough to hear anything because you want your. Your child, you want them to be completely healthy, no problems, no setbacks, everything normal. All the same opportunities as everybody else. But, you know, Cassie and I have been A great team with this, and I think that's what makes the world go round is that Tucker, we. We're not going anywhere, and we're going to be right by his side. You know, we're going to be lifting him up to succeed the best he can, as fast as he can on his time frame. We get impatient. We want him to talk right now. We want him to have sentences and words and all those things. And he does have words. And we have seen him grow throughout his life, and we've seen very positive things happening for him, which is very exciting. But there are times where it gets tough, but that's when we just lean on each other and we lean into him. Because if you let. If you let your child be who they are and you follow their lead, you drop expectations and you're just like, show me who you are.
• 6:09
  Speaker A: Show me who you are. It's. It's the gift of a lifetime as a parent to witness your child show you who they are.
• 6:16
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 6:17
  Speaker A: And I think that's one of those.
• 6:18
  Speaker C: By the way, he's a lover. He's like the biggest lover ever. Oh, I'm sure.
• 6:21
  Speaker A: Well, I always say, you know, what's. What's these little boys, being the youngest and the boy of a. Only boy of a family and what is autism? I'm like, you know, like, they're just such little love bugs.
• 6:30
  Speaker B: But.
• 6:31
  Speaker A: But, you know, Chuck, you're right. That was one of the reasons that the term instincts popped up for me a number of years ago was I was constantly battling this forced development timeline from a medical or typical worldview of raising children. And I thought, why am I not allowed to lean into. Let Millie show me her developmental pattern versus a earlier version of her. I'm not here to compare myself to what the woman next door is doing and crushing it in in different ways. Like, I'm just looking to see what I'm doing versus a past version of myself and if I'm proud of myself. So to get to celebrate that, it looks like it seems like you guys caught that same kind of vibe early on.
• 7:08
  Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And you. It has to go back to. Every child is different. And there's a saying where if you. Comparing yourself to others, you're robbing yourself of. Of. Of the. Of the joy that you're actually accomplishing yourself. And I always go back. I mean, as a. As a guy, I go back to like, I played baseball my whole life. Right. I remember being in fifth grade and this guy next to me in fifth grade was hitting home Runs left and right that well. I didn't really figure out how to hit home runs until I was a sophomore in. In high school, but then I was a better hitter than he was. So it's, like, where the development process is different and all types of things, and that's the approach that I take being an athlete or a former athlete, and she's an athlete. So we kind of just kind of lean on each other with those things.
• 7:51
  Speaker B: And there are days not to say that it's perfect. And we're always just, like, so optimistic and all of that. Right.
• 7:58
  Speaker A: I'm sure there's the oscillating of days, right?
• 8:01
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:01
  Speaker A: You're able to understand your strength in that way.
• 8:03
  Speaker B: And I think Chuck is very optimistic with everything. He's, like, so positive with everything he does in life. And so for me, in the beginning, it was like, it crushed my everything. And so for me, it was, like, getting the diagnosis. I knew it already. And then it was fine. Like, it was official. Like, that was a morning phase for me.
• 8:26
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 8:26
  Speaker B: I was like, wow. Like, I can't believe this is happening to us. Like, I don't know how to even deal with this. I don't know. Where do I start? Like, because you want to give them, like, everything. To give them the best opportunity and to be able to communicate and everything.
• 8:42
  Speaker C: And so the beginning, we were on. We were on complete opposite pages. He was. The world is ending. I was like, no, it's not.
• 8:50
  Speaker B: Listen, like, we're. This is great. Like, he's still him.
• 8:53
  Speaker C: I'm like, look at him. Look at him. Literally, if we ever get down, I'm like, just look at him. Look at him. He is literally has a popsicle watching Mickey Mouse, smiling.
• 9:04
  Speaker A: I'm like, honestly, he's living his best life. Like, you better catch up. If you take a look at them and. And really look at them, they. They have so much to teach us about just being who they are.
• 9:15
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 9:15
  Speaker A: He's like, I got a popsicle. Mickey Mouse clubhouse. Everyone that loves me is around me. Like, what is there to even worry about, guys?
• 9:21
  Speaker B: Like, and it's. It's definitely changed who I am as a person, too. I was wanted the perfect life. Like, kids have always been, like, pretty perfect. You know, we go to all the events and all the parties, and, you know, I've never had any issues. So now, like, it is a little different. Like, we have to think about, like, what events we go to and do we bring Tucker or not? And if we are, like, you know, we just know Even like a kid's birthday party. I mean, it feels different than it did. Yes, it does. So it's not, you know, you don't just let them go and play and we're with the adults. I'm with them. Yeah. So it's. It's changed who we. I am. This is kind of like all he knows in raising a kid because it's his first. Oh, he's totally fine with it. But I have those moments where I'm like, this is different. But I mean, not to say we don't do these things. Like, we do it all right. We're still going.
• 10:19
  Speaker A: Well, that's what I love about y'all, too, is that, you know, one of the biggest things that I mirror is choosing to interact over isolate. Tucker being who he is in the world's reaction to Tucker, Millie and Mac and all the other little autistic kids that are just trying to grow and develop. The world's reaction to them being who they are really isn't our problem. Right. And it can also be really hard. And like you said the grief timeline of that, because there are those moments, I'm sure, at parties, because we choose to interact so much, I think we get pangs of the man. Yep.
• 10:52
  Speaker B: Okay. Sometimes you feel like you have to explain yourself. You're like, I have to explain myself this time. Or can we just be normal and like, just. Let's just go with it. Like, you know, he's just going to be play and. But, you know, sometimes you can tell like a parent trying to figure out what's going on. So you feel like you have to explain yourself and him. And so it's just figuring it all out. You figure it out.
• 11:13
  Speaker C: And there we're. So that's where we're different as well. It's like she over analyzes and overthinks it. Right. And so. But I'm more of like, I don't really care. Like, I'm like, I don't care what you think. And if something comes up, I'm just like. I'm like, yep, he's non verbal autistic. I'm like, we're getting through it. We're figuring it out. I was like. And honestly, like, he'll talk when he wants to talk. I was like. And every once in a while, you know, like, see what he's. I'll literally just be like, call it what it is. I'm like, see what he's doing right now. Like, we'll be at a birthday party. Like, see what he's doing right now. He's like, he's just overstimulated. He's just figuring it out. He's regulating his body. So. And I just, I just speak to the point, fact, fact about it and then it's up to the other person if they get it. Like I, if they don't get it, that's fine too. But I, I often tell a lot of my friends sometimes is if it comes up and we're in that situation, I'll be like, it's pretty cool. You get to have a conversation with your kid, right?
• 12:13
  Speaker A: Oh, yes.
• 12:14
  Speaker C: Like, think about that. Because right now we, like, we can't have a true conversation with Tucker. But I also, and if there's people watching this, I also have a belief in faith, a strong belief in faith, and that it will come around and it, there will be a day where I do have a full conversation with Tucker.
• 12:35
  Speaker A: Oh yeah.
• 12:35
  Speaker C: And whenever that is going to happen, it's going to happen. But that's on Tucker's timeline and we are having conversations with him.
• 12:42
  Speaker A: That's the thing I was going to say. Yeah. I mean there's almost the skill set, the senses. I get so much from a glance, I get so much from a giggle. I. And I really believe this, that like connecting with Millie and Mac and when I get to meet Tucker in person, that there is, it is a thin veil of heaven. I really believe it to be true because it is in that small fraction of a second that I am noticing who that child is. And they know they are so loved. And it doesn't have to be spoken. It can be the giggle. But I realized the luxury in learning about my child like this. Right? No one chooses it. I always say, like, no woman in her 30s wakes up and goes, you know what? I want two children with not speaking autism. Like, it's just, it's not what you ever would choose. I know that you guys get it. I know that you guys get it.
• 13:29
  Speaker C: Yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting and you know, as people that are, are interested in this conversation are probably doing what we're doing and we're looking everywhere for solutions. Right? And I believe there is solutions out there. I mean, it starts with gut health. It starts absolutely therapies that we're gonna, that Cassie and I are going to, we're going up to Des Moines, Iowa at the, at the beginning of the year and we have a two week intensive red light therapy, hyperbaric chamber. Like we're doing this. We're we're doing everything that we possibly can that we feel is also healthy for our child, and we'll push them in the right direction to help them succeed in the best way possible.
• 14:18
  Speaker A: I know that you guys have a ton of wonderful family support. How was that in terms of just getting them accustomed to what a day to day might look like and sort of accepting this? How has that, you know, shaped your extended family and, you know, travel and day to days?
• 14:35
  Speaker B: Well, one, we're super blessed because we have parents that live, you know, right next door to us, essentially. So they have been a part of his daily life since the day was born. So they've been through this entire process with us. So I would say, like, they're the ones. Them and Avery, who lives in the house with us, they get it just as much as we do, you know, and even times, my dad, who lives, you know, he sees them every day, watched him while we were out of the country for a week, and he was like, I have so much more respect for you guys. Like, because when you're really. I mean, he does see him, but he's not caring for him all day, every day. And so when he did that, he was like, I just had no idea how much goes into it, you know, especially at night with him sleeping or not sleeping and just all the routines and just structure that he needs. But, you know, and then, like, on the flip side, his parents live in Florida, and so it is a little different because they're not around him all the time, so they don't.
• 15:39
  Speaker C: Yeah, it's like you. It's just little things. Right? I mean, and again, I know we're specifically talking about Tucker and autism, but there are other children out there that have different issues outside autism that other parents have to deal with or try to figure, like, hey, this is what's happening in my child's life. And so when we go take a picture, the family picture, everyone needs to be ready because you got about two seconds.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 16:06
  Speaker C: And after that, I don't know what's going to happen. So it's just. It's just like little things here and there. I. You know, the spectrum can be way up here or way down here. So it's like, what are we dealing with here and what's going on? That's why when you say, yeah, I have an autistic son or daughter could mean so many things. But the best thing, the most common thing is they just need to be loved and they need to be positioned in a place so they can succeed in the best possible way for them.
• 16:43
  Speaker A: How do you both feel like your own upbringing has impacted how beautifully you and openly accept Tucker for who he is? Because you guys both have a mindset that can be both like, Cass, we both experience that typical. Like, wait a second, this is not what I thought my life was to be. And yet we both have done the work to dig deep. And Chuck, it sounds like you've done the same. Does that come from your upbringing? Because there's a lot of special needs parents that don't find that common ground.
• 17:13
  Speaker B: Well, I think both of us have been lucky that our parents were, like, all in revise, no matter what it. That we were doing or going through in life. I mean, my parents have supported my brother and I. Like, any crazy idea we wanted to do or, you know, wanted to pursue, they were all in. And so I think just like, that is part of it. It's like our kids are our everything. And so we want to give them everything that we can possibly give them to give them the best life that they want. Right. Or need. And so I think. I think it does. And his parents were the same way. I mean, when he moved to Florida from Delaware to, you know, play baseball in college, like, his grandparents moved down and his parents followed him. So everyone's like, all in with him or me. And. Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker A: So I think a real modeling, a real family modeling.
• 18:04
  Speaker B: Yeah. And then they're still super involved. Like, our parents are so involved. Our extended families are super involved. It's been cool. Like, my aunts and cousins, like, we've never experienced this in our family, so there's lots of questions and, like, everyone's learning how to navigate it and, like, I mean, so accepting of Tucker and, like. But they want to be a part of it. And, like, how can we help? How can we understand.
• 18:40
  Speaker A: That family? And leaning in is not just the parent. It's. It's. It is your. It is your crew. It has been what has both been modeled to you even before you guys were a couple.
• 18:51
  Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think parenting is lead by example, and they'll follow. And I think that's kind of what we're doing now with Tucker, is that we just try to do everything with them. And, you know, we don't try to isolate him or keep him away from certain things because we're scared to or whatever. We just say, nope, let's go. We're doing this because he's got to. He has to.
• 19:14
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 19:15
  Speaker C: And he'll learn. He's the best thing about watching Tucker is that he is super smart like that kid. He is so smart in different ways than I was as a kid. You know, I was kind of a weird kid. I was weird. Like, I did weird stuff as a kid. Like, my. My mom said, chuck, you didn't talk to. This is where my background.
• 19:38
  Speaker A: Right. Right.
• 19:39
  Speaker C: Where I'm like, more lazy with it. Mom's like, oh, you didn't talk to your four Chuck. I'm like, well, maybe I was authentic. I've seen.
• 19:46
  Speaker B: Tell us until after Tucker got his diagnosis and everything's funny, right?
• 19:51
  Speaker A: You're like, we need.
• 19:54
  Speaker B: Yeah. You know what? Meant to know.
• 19:56
  Speaker A: I know. Yeah.
• 19:58
  Speaker C: I had a weird tick. Like, I. I used to have to be. It was so odd. I can say it's weird. It was me. I would have to take my hand. I would take a drink, you know, and then I have to go like this. So, like, kind of wipe it clear.
• 20:11
  Speaker A: And it's like, you don't know why you did that, but you were also a kid just figuring your body. And if your body was like, that makes me feel better, then I do it and it's not hurting anyone.
• 20:18
  Speaker C: So I actually, from that standpoint, when I see Tucker try to regulate his body, I'm like, okay, I get. I kind of get what you're doing, dude. I get what you're trying to do right now. So we're just, you know, and I. And I always have this. This mindset. I'm like, he's gonna. He is what he's doing right now. He's gonna grow out of it. I just. I just. Something in my gut says the. The regulating of the body ticks and all that stuff that he has to do to feel better in his own skin. I'm like, like, I don't know what it is about my gut feeling on that. I'm like, to grow out of that. I don't know when he's going to grow out of it, but he's definitely going to grow out of that. He's not going to do that when he's 18 years old.
• 20:54
  Speaker A: He's going to be like, yeah, I could. I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's a something that you watch and you go, I see how my child is developing. And you just. You have an even intuition about things. And I don't. I believe those to be so true. So, so very true.
• 21:09
  Speaker C: I will say he's got a jump rope deal right now that is miserable. On airplanes, it's the loudest jump rope. Like, when you get on an airplane, there's five people that can relate to this that are watching. Is that like, all right, if you're watching a show, let's make sure that volume's all the way down. Put your headphones on. I'm like, tucker will not wear headphones.
• 21:29
  Speaker B: No, no, no.
• 21:31
  Speaker A: That seatbelt gets on. You're lucky.
• 21:33
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, exactly.
• 21:34
  Speaker C: Go ahead and put the seatbelt on. And then they come over. Hey, buddy, put your seatbelt on. I'm like, that's not. I'm like.
• 21:40
  Speaker A: You're like, I'd love for you to try.
• 21:42
  Speaker B: Um, and I will say, it has been nice. We have flown a lot recently, and some of the flight attendants, you can tell, they're like, they figure out something that's going on. They're like, you know what if you can just get him in your lap and hold it?
• 21:55
  Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker B: Way too big for that. But. And we've had some people like, no, he cannot sit in your lap. He has to sit there, you know? And you're like, okay, like, let's hear screaming for 30 minutes. But. But there have been some really sweet ladies that have been like, if you can just get them under control, get them in your lap. And you're just, like, so appreciative in those moments. You're like, okay, you see me. Thank you.
• 22:18
  Speaker A: I think there's a real humanity that can be seen when you interact more and more with your autistic children. I feel the same way about flights. I absolutely think that 99.9% of this world is, like, you see the beauty of humanity. And, I mean, I carry $5 Starbucks gift cards when I fly, and I give them around to people going, if they don't bother you and there's nothing, it's a free latte on me. And if they do, it's a free latte on me.
• 22:42
  Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's, it's. It can be very interesting, but I always have the mindset of, like, they're going to be this little for, like, a little bit. And we enjoy every single moment. We enjoy. Even when he just recently woke up at 1:30, doesn't want to go to bed till 5. We got to work the next day.
• 23:04
  Speaker B: We calls our face that right now.
• 23:07
  Speaker C: Like, he gets so frustrated. So Tucker will get so frustrated, and he can't voice what he wants, so he doesn't know how to explain it. So he gets mad and he wants to, like, scratch it like this. And that can be tough. That can be because, you know, he doesn't mean. He's not trying to be mean. He's just. He's just frustrated, and your heart goes out to him and you may have just got clawed. I mean, she's got scars on her face. Literally. I mean, he's got. Yes. Like, marks on her. And you just have to be like, woosa. And like, just.
• 23:40
  Speaker A: Well, like I always say, like, all behavior is communication. Like, everything that they do is trying to let you know who they are and what they need.
• 23:48
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 23:49
  Speaker A: You know, like their prefrontal cortex isn't closed and they will find a way to get their point across. And it doesn't mean that they're malicious. There's not a bad bone in these kids bodies at all. I'm sure you feel this way based on what you shared already, but I believe that they have a capacity for love that is actually much greater than autistic children are typically given credit for. I actually think they feel an immense amount of empathy and love.
• 24:13
  Speaker C: Yeah, we think about that a lot. We, we. I. I feel. I think we feel very blessed with Tucker. We. We know he has. He's on the spectrum for autism, but I, I wouldn't change his. Change anything in the world who my son is. I. I adore every facet of who he is. And, you know, he's.
• 24:37
  Speaker B: Dude, he's your dude.
• 24:39
  Speaker A: He's your dude. Tell me about. Because, you know, Inchtones is what I love to talk about mostly. Tell me about the recent inch stones for Tucker. What are some recent little wins that you found?
• 24:52
  Speaker B: Well, funny enough, we just did an OT evaluation yesterday. And so, like, you know, we see his stuff he can do at home, and at home he eats with his hands and all. Yeah. So we were at the ot, and she has a fork, he's picking up Play doh, stabbing it, putting. And I'm like, wait a minute, he can do this. And so.
• 25:16
  Speaker C: And he was still ornery about it. So he would be.
• 25:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 25:19
  Speaker C: He would be. He would do it, right. And they were like, all right, we're all done. Let's go over here. You can play a little bit. So he plays a little bit, and he's having a blast. He's smiling and he's laughing. He's like, yeah, I'm bouncing. He goes, okay, all done. Let's go back to work. And he's just like.
• 25:35
  Speaker B: And then he stomped over, sat in the chair, and was like, grabbing the fork.
• 25:41
  Speaker A: He's like, fine, I'll do this for you.
• 25:44
  Speaker B: I was like, wait a minute. That worked. You all done? And he was like, no, my way. And she's like, not right now. Fist bump. He gives a fist bump. And he's like, counts and walks over, so sits in his little chair. He looks so cute. And we're like, this is the cutest thing I ever seen in my life.
• 25:59
  Speaker A: Being able to have typical children, a typical child and autistic children. You're so keenly aware of getting to see him, like, playing, playing, playing that guy back to work. And he's like, I gotta freaking go. I can do this for them.
• 26:10
  Speaker B: And, like, so mad. But he's listening.
• 26:14
  Speaker A: It's like, you know, their receptive language is so high, and they're so darn smart that they're like, my body doesn't want to do this right now, but I'm going to keep trying because I love my mom and dad and I love myself and they love me.
• 26:25
  Speaker C: And that's what we love seeing, is that, like, he is capable of anything. It's just a. It's just a different. He's right now, currently, he has a different way to learn it. Yes. And that's the key is like, they. They. I will say Tucker has a. Has a different way of understanding to get from point A to point B. And it's our jobs to figure that out. How do we do that for you? How do we do that for you, buddy? Do we need to take you? Okay, we're going to go to OT occupational therapy. Great. Let's do it. We're going to do that. We're going to do it Monday through Friday, and you're going to crush it. And next thing you know, you're going to be six years old. You're going to be. You're going to look back and be like, man, we've come so far. And those are the little wins. He did something the other day. Oh, we were cooking Mac and cheese for him. Okay. Very picky eater, by the way. We just got. We just go with it and. Which is tough because you hear all about gut health. You're like, well, he won't eat that stuff, you know?
• 27:26
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 27:26
  Speaker C: So he did something the other day, and I said, get your plate, buddy. Get your plate. Knows what drawer it's in. He gets his plate out, hands it to mom. I go, give it to Mommy. Gives it to Mommy. And I looked at Cassie and I go. I go. You know, there was a time where we thought he would never do that.
• 27:46
  Speaker A: Never follow an instruction.
• 27:48
  Speaker C: Yeah. He would never go, know what a plate is, where to go, get it, pick it up walk it. There was a time he. That. When he was.
• 27:57
  Speaker B: Not that long ago, but when he.
• 27:58
  Speaker A: Not that long ago, right.
• 28:00
  Speaker C: When he normally, as in a normal. A child that is not autistic, they could do that. So I'm not saying like, oh, he was six months old. No, no. There was a time he couldn't do that when he was supposed to be doing that, and now he can do it. So it's just building blocks.
• 28:15
  Speaker A: It is, it is. And it's. And it again, I think the love and the. The ROI of you and parents like us leading our children to be celebrated for who they are lies in that fragment of a second where you are like. I always say it's like a gasp of like they did it, like, you.
• 28:32
  Speaker C: Know, and say roi.
• 28:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, it is the roi.
• 28:36
  Speaker C: It's a businesswoman.
• 28:37
  Speaker A: It's. No. Oh, my God, I'm gonna get so ashamed for this too, because I like, left the business world years ago.
• 28:43
  Speaker C: Return.
• 28:45
  Speaker A: Listen, listen. It is though. It is. It's like the heart's roi, Chuck. No, but it like, fills my bucket being able to, like, to hear when. When other parents share that. Because that's what I wish I could inject when people maybe feel bad for our family or go, oh, you know, and you're like, no, don't, don't. Because the awe actually is that like yesterday when something like the plate or the spoon or Millie putting her juice box in the trash and not the sink, I look at her, I'm like, I am so proud of you. You literally put it in the trash can. Like, that is so, like, when do you find a typical parent of a nine year old saying that? Right? You don't take any of that for granted enough. To be able to show up for these kids and love them for who they are is the greatest gift.
• 29:31
  Speaker C: So I appreciate you saying that. I think the worst thing a parent can do is ignore their child and just stay on their phone the whole time or just be too busy for them. Or don't you. You know, when you take trips, maybe take trips together as a family, I mean, it's important for us to have. It's important for. For marriages to have.
• 29:51
  Speaker A: Yes. A marriage.
• 29:53
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Speaker C: Spend time with your children. Because we are in a situation where we don't have. We don't. We have to pay. We have to pay attention.
• 30:04
  Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. I totally agree. It's like we have no other choice but to pay attention.
• 30:08
  Speaker C: Like, we. We're not in the luxury of being like, yeah, Tucker's in the other Room. Oh, no, we don't. We're not really in that. I mean, we could do that, I guess, but. And I'm not saying we're not. I'm not trying to be like, well, don't be a helicopter parent. No, it's. We don't have the luxury of doing that because we can't say, hey, Tucker. And he can't go, what's up, dad? Like, we're not in that situation, so we have to keep eyes on him. And, dude, Tucker will be playing with a toy, and if he gets the.
• 30:38
  Speaker A: Urge to run, oh, he's out of there.
• 30:40
  Speaker C: He will run three miles. Exactly.
• 30:43
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 30:44
  Speaker B: I mean, have to walk.
• 30:45
  Speaker C: I mean, any. It doesn't necessarily have to be attached to autism, but.
• 30:51
  Speaker A: But no, it's real. It's real. And it's this beautiful impulsivity to what they're drawn to. And it can be scary, but, like, yeah, we. We have to. I always say, like, option A parenting does not exist for us with Tucker, Millie, and Mac. Like, option A parenting is. They're in another room, they're playing something. Hey, go grab. You know, blah, blah. All right, Yep, I'll do that, dad, mom, you know, option B is all I know when it comes to them. So let's kick the crap out of it. Let's do it. Let's do option B as best as we can and show that it's actually a totally different world. And it's really wonderful. It just. It just looks a lot different, and you can't understand it until you go through it. I think many really deeply hard things in life are. But I think, though. I think that those of us that know great pain also know great joy. And it's. I think it's very relative.
• 31:40
  Speaker C: We have purposely. We have purposely. And we're starting to let him, like, just wander without us following him. We. We purposely, like, oh, he's going upstairs. This should be good.
• 31:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:52
  Speaker C: And then we kind of wait, and we're like, he's still upstairs.
• 31:54
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 31:55
  Speaker C: We still kind of hear. We hear the jump rope hitting the.
• 31:58
  Speaker A: But if it gets quiet, we're running up. Well, you have to look on Cassie's phone when she posted a picture of him somewhere standing. And you're like, oh, my God, I just had a heart attack. And I'm like, here's what's going on in New Jersey right now. And it's like, my son is literally in the top part of his. Of his closet on the fourth shelf, tucked in the corner with his Daniel Tiger toy. And he's happy. He's like, what? This is fine. Like, I don't know what's. What's the problem here?
• 32:22
  Speaker B: What's the issue? Yeah, like, what's the issue?
• 32:25
  Speaker C: So, I mean, again, every kid's different whether they have autism or not. And you just kind of. You got. You got to let them be who they are. And, you know, if there's people out there watching that are unsure, like, oh, maybe my son or daughter is autistic. Go get them tested. I mean, just go. Go figure it out. The earlier, you detect the earlier. And I give credit to Cassie because I probably now would just be like, as a father, being like, man, something's off about Tucker.
• 32:56
  Speaker A: Right.
• 32:57
  Speaker C: Speaking yet. She was like, a year in. He was a year old. She was like, something's wrong. We got to take it. I'm like, no, he's fine. Give it a minute. He's just doing his own thing. He'll figure it out. Credit to Cassie for. For just being.
• 33:12
  Speaker B: We have an appointment.
• 33:13
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Speaker B: More than welcome to kind.
• 33:15
  Speaker A: Right.
• 33:15
  Speaker B: Because.
• 33:16
  Speaker C: Because the sooner you detect it, some of these delays that they have, whatever it is, you can help course correct those.
• 33:23
  Speaker A: Exactly. I mean, the brain is so malleable under five years old.
• 33:27
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 33:27
  Speaker B: And so, you know, and with that, with, you know, diagnosis, there are so many more resources you can get for that. Well, and it just. I don't know that he would be in the place he is right now had we not been doing all the things we've been doing.
• 33:41
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 33:41
  Speaker B: Two years. Right. So it's trial and error. Like some, you know, we started in one place, and then we're like, okay, this other place makes more sense. We thought we would maybe try a typical school, like a preschool a couple of days this year. So we're all excited about that.
• 33:58
  Speaker C: Six hours.
• 33:59
  Speaker B: That's okay.
• 33:59
  Speaker A: Listen, Tucker's like, I.
• 34:01
  Speaker B: It wasn't him. It wasn't him. It was. It was the staffing and all of that. And I just feel like they weren't ready to handle somebody like Tucker. That's okay. It was hard to deal with, but, you know, it's all trial and error of what works for them or our family.
• 34:18
  Speaker A: And it's not a Tucker problem. It's a. It's a preconditioned notion problem that we as people in our 40s have. Right. It's. It's never about the kids having an issue. It's about adults having preconceived condition notions. So what would be one thing that you guys would say to parents that are really scared. That are really scared, and their child is exhibiting these symptoms, and they're scared. What would you guys say to them?
• 34:45
  Speaker B: I would say your feelings are valid. Like, those are valid feelings. But I think you have to just stay focused and just, like, kind of course correct yourself as well, and just, you know, you're all in with this child and know that there is so much joy. Right. In everything. And, like, you're just going to see life as a whole totally different. Right. And every little win. Every. I don't know, like, everything is, like, so big to us now and so exciting. So you have that to look forward to. And you, like, you're going to see changes. You're going to see positive changes. They might not be how you expected them to be or as quickly as you want them, but, like, it comes and it's huge wins.
• 35:28
  Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, piggyback off that. I think it's. I would say it's okay to be scared. It won't be the first time, won't be the last time. And I think if you embrace what's happening in your child's life, whatever it is, and you help give them the resources that they need to. To be themselves in the best light possible. Just do that. Just love your kids. I mean, it's that simple. Like, if you love your kids. Yeah. Love your kids and you'll do the right thing.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: Yep. Just keep doing the next right thing. I always say that it's like, don't think too far ahead. Just do the next right thing for them.
• 36:07
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Cause you can really get in the weeds of that.
• 36:10
  Speaker A: You can really get in the weeds about that, and it's not worth anything.
• 36:13
  Speaker B: 10 years down the road or 15 years. That, like, really. Yeah. That is like, stay focused here and now and, like, enjoy this moment.
• 36:21
  Speaker A: Well, isn't it ironic that so many books and so many talks and so many keynote speakers are all focused on mindfulness, and yet you want to try to. You want to become mindful. Birth yourself an autistic child. I would never be this. This mindful of every day and this beautiful sunrise. I get out of my. Like, I wouldn't be that mindful if I wasn't forced to be so mindful, if that makes sense. It's the muscle memory.
• 36:46
  Speaker C: Right.
• 36:47
  Speaker A: It's like, even when I'm not around them, I'm more mindful because I have to practice it around them, you know?
• 36:52
  Speaker C: Well, it. Embrace your. Embrace your child.
• 36:55
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 36:56
  Speaker C: We don't know what it is yet.
• 36:57
  Speaker A: But Tucker has a superpower oh, yes, he does. Oh, I. Yes.
• 37:03
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 37:06
  Speaker A: Oh, there you go. Yep. All good.
• 37:09
  Speaker C: Tucker has superpower, and we don't know what it is yet, but Tucker does have a superpower. We're going to figure it out at some point. I don't know if he's going to fly. I don't know. I don't know.
• 37:19
  Speaker B: Okay, okay.
• 37:20
  Speaker C: He's got a superpower.
• 37:21
  Speaker B: What would you.
• 37:22
  Speaker A: What would you guess right now is it.
• 37:23
  Speaker B: He just, like, laughs all the time. We're like, what's so funny?
• 37:26
  Speaker A: He's like, y'all. He's like, y'all are crazy. That's what's so funny, basically.
• 37:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know what a superpower is, but I do know that he's full of love. And I think when we. Especially when we see him smile and laugh and see how happy he is and healthy is, that's when you're just like, you just kind of stop worrying. Like, stop worrying and just embrace and love, and that's all you can do.
• 37:51
  Speaker A: Well, Cassie and Chuck Wicks, thank you endlessly for your vulnerability and sharing this with you, because it takes a lot to talk about this. Not only just emote and live it, but it takes a lot to talk about it. I think that what you're doing and how you're leading not only Tucker, but your whole family is so beautiful.
• 38:10
  Speaker C: Well, thank you. We have not wanted to talk about this, or me in particular, just because I'm so protective of Tucker and just. I feel like I need to just give him a big hug all the time. So, you know, I. I do hope that people realize that, you know, it's not the end of the world if you have an autistic son or daughter. It's okay. You're.
• 38:35
  Speaker A: You have an autistic son or daughter.
• 38:37
  Speaker C: Like, it's okay.
• 38:38
  Speaker A: You're.
• 38:38
  Speaker C: It's not the end of the world. Embrace them. Love them. They are your child. They are your miracle. They are God's miracle. And let's. Let's go. Let's go have fun together.
• 38:48
  Speaker A: Let's go.
• 38:48
  Speaker C: Yeah. All right.
• 38:50
  Speaker B: Well, thank you. Yes, thank you. And I hope it's. This has been helpful. Helpful for other people as well, and.
• 38:57
  Speaker C: It'S helpful for us.
• 38:58
  Speaker B: It is. It is helpful for us to talk about it as well. And we haven't quite known how to, like, really put it out there to the world. So, you know, obviously people know, but we're trying to figure out, you know, the best way on that as well and be protective of Tucker. But thank you. Exactly.
• 39:13
  Speaker A: All right, well, until next time on the insurance podcast.