Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Training Through Losses for Championship Wins: Greg Zabikow's Business Strategy Framework

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Training Through Losses for Championship Wins: Greg Zabikow's Business Strategy Framework · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:16
today's guest is Greg Zabakow. Greg has a background in
0:20
international business and finance, leading transformations
0:24
at Cornerstone Building Brands and Evraz North America, and he
0:29
led key treasury initiatives at Allstate Insurance.
0:32
He also holds an MBA from DePaul University, along with
0:36
credentials like Financial Modeling and Valuation Analyst
0:39
from the Corporate Finance Institute.
0:42
Greg also earned recognitions as a competent Toastmaster,
0:45
reflecting his outstanding communication skills.
0:49
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1:33
All right, back to our guest today, Greg Zabakow.
1:35
Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
1:38
No, absolutely, Anthony, thanks for inviting me in.
1:42
So Greg, you've had a fascinating career path from
1:45
retail banking to treasury work at Allstate and Aeon and and
1:49
then moving into manufacturing with a steel company.
1:53
I got to ask, is there a common thread amongst these different
1:56
roles? Yeah, it's interesting.
1:59
My dad has a quote that he always would share with me or
2:02
was you don't know what you want to do till you find out what you
2:04
don't want to do. And and as you kind of unpack
2:07
that coming out of college and finance roles, I would have the
2:11
bosses that would say, hey, can you work on this project?
2:13
Can you take care of this task? And it wasn't really technically
2:17
part of that role that I have, but I just kept saying yes.
2:20
And what I found is kind of that excitement doing things
2:24
different beyond the traditional role and actually having some
2:28
positive results. And so again, asking yes when
2:33
these different opportunity or saying yes when these different
2:35
opportunities came up really prepared me going forward.
2:40
So it's helped to get you more well-rounded in not just
2:44
finance, but sort of operational business experience so that you
2:48
can take that forward into each of the new roles that you've
2:51
had. Correct.
2:53
I had an opportunity where the CFO I worked for asked me what I
2:57
wanted to do, and that led to getting in my first operation
3:02
situation, which when you start blending that financial
3:05
experience with teamwork and in operations, it's really a
3:09
powerful tool. Yeah, that is a great
3:12
combination. Now one of the roles that you
3:16
had is when you were helping a struggling pipe manufacturing
3:20
business. Can you walk around some of the
3:23
specific strategies that you used to help in that situation?
3:29
Absolutely. So when I came into that role, I
3:32
was told three things. One, we couldn't make a certain
3:34
size product. We didn't have a very good
3:36
relationship with the union and then our supervisory team was
3:41
not as strong as they needed to be debunked.
3:45
All three of those, The first part, really looking at what was
3:49
the issue with a particular size product.
3:52
We make pipe and you thread the end of the pipe.
3:56
So find out who our best threader operators were and
3:59
really building some training and knowledge around that in a
4:02
way that supported the collective bargaining agreement.
4:06
Then with the union, there's a leadership structure.
4:08
There's that collective bargaining agreement kind of
4:10
gives you the rules of engagement, but they're just
4:12
people, right? It's not management versus
4:14
employees or or union. And so connecting with those
4:18
team members, what it was on their breaks at their machines,
4:22
getting to know them and finding out what got them the tick,
4:25
because we had a lot of folks that were in that location for
4:28
years. And so there definitely was
4:30
pride of ownership and they really wanted to bring that out.
4:32
So by building those relationships, we had success.
4:35
And then the third part, I I equate business to sports.
4:38
So you've got either the scoreboard or the time clock and
4:41
you know every day, whether you're winning or losing when
4:44
you watch a professional sporting event, that's why you
4:47
need to provide the supervisors. We had some metrics showing
4:50
those metrics real time and on a daily basis.
4:54
Friendly competition is a good thing.
4:56
And it's amazing when you set an expectation of what you're
4:58
trying to deliver and communicate that in a very
5:01
positive way how things turn around.
5:03
So that was kind of a recipe for success there.
5:07
So that last one, the financial metrics, OK, that sounds like a
5:11
finance guy to me. Like I that one I get.
5:14
So the first two you came in and they told you, hey, we weren't
5:19
incapable of making the certain size product.
5:21
But what where did this come from?
5:25
You sort of coming in as the new guy, not knowing anything about
5:28
the pipe industry, having the audacity to question that,
5:31
right? Because clearly there are people
5:33
who are much more skilled in manufacturing pipe and knowing
5:36
what their capabilities are internally than you are.
5:41
So what do you mean gave you the idea to turn that one upside
5:44
down and say let's take a look at this.
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So my very first site management meeting you're, you're talking
5:52
through, I had three metrics, first pass yield, productivity
5:55
and availability, which was what I was going to be measured
5:58
against. And in a 24/7 operation, it's
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really not 24/7. You, you have a down period.
6:04
And for this particular line, it was Thursday from 10:00 AM to
6:08
6:00 PM. And I went in that meeting and I
6:10
said, OK, so during this down period, we're actually going to
6:12
do maintenance. And you would have thought I,
6:15
you know, killed the sacred cow in that moment because we run
6:18
through down days. It's like, well, that's why we
6:20
have productivity problems. And so again, to your point of
6:24
I'm not the mechanical expert, but I'll use that sports analogy
6:28
again. You can't run 3 hours a day and
6:30
you can't wake up and run the Denver Marathon tomorrow, right?
6:33
And so to take equipment and let it rest, right?
6:38
Clean it, oil it, inspect it, allowed you to control the
6:42
downtime. And so out of the 52 weeks, we
6:45
probably had 48 of those weeks where we actually had down days.
6:49
And now you had maintenance PMS, operator PMS, back to that pride
6:54
of ownership because the team members that were operating
6:57
those faces really wanted to make sure their equipment was
6:59
cleaned and cared for. And so rather than breaking down
7:03
Saturday at 2O clock in the morning when you have limited
7:05
staff, you're able to expect them to inspect that product
7:09
machine today and next Thursday because you inspected it and
7:13
said, hey, that motor could be failing.
7:15
You pre planned that repair. And so again, the availability
7:18
of the equipment went through the roof.
7:20
And so, you know, just the ability of being curious or
7:23
asking the question of help me understand was really what
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helped guide me through that. And so you specific and that was
7:31
really interesting what you talked about there in terms of
7:33
changing the schedule up as it pertained to equipment
7:38
maintenance. But one of the specific
7:40
questions you asked is why can't we make this in a different and?
7:44
That's the beauty of not being that expert as you alluded to,
7:48
because we had team members both on the management side and in
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the union side. Then there's 2530 years knew the
7:54
equipment inside and out. Heck, some of them actually
7:57
installed the equipment. But being able to pause and look
8:00
at that problem differently, we were able to identify
8:05
opportunities, which was they were not taking care of the
8:07
equipment. No wonder it's breaking.
8:11
And then that's sort of second point that you talked about kind
8:15
of the union relationship. I don't have a lot of experience
8:20
working with unions. What function in the company is
8:24
typically spearheading that relationship?
8:26
Is it HR? Does it come from somewhere
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else? I, I, I think it varies in the
8:32
structure that we had. It was definitely the site
8:35
management team, but also the companies wide management team
8:39
because that union structure existed kind of throughout our
8:42
company. So that's where that overall HR
8:44
relationship would be. But yet my approach is
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everything you do is through and with people.
8:50
We're we're in this together. We're spending so much time in
8:54
our space. Why have adversity?
8:57
Again, just bringing that team approach, We're either going to
9:00
win together or lose together. So we have a vested interest
9:03
even though we may be trying to approach it slightly different.
9:07
We're trying to feed our family, continue to have the business
9:10
operating and then create a product for our customers.
9:14
You keep using the sports analogies.
9:17
Were you involved in athletics earlier in your life?
9:21
Yeah, obviously as a kid, the different activities that you
9:24
participated in, but had an opportunity to swim in college
9:28
and and that really became the the crux of how I looked at
9:31
things because you take swimming and by itself it's individual.
9:35
But when you get to that collegiate level, your ability
9:39
to win championship is based on all 22 happen to be guys on the
9:44
team and we trained with the gals as well, but that's how you
9:48
would win all 22 people having success in their events.
9:53
And it really gave me a sense of how to approach winning
9:57
together, having a a goal at the end of the year, which were
10:02
these championships, and it really shaped what we did there
10:06
so. And so I'm not familiar with
10:10
competitive swimming at any level, in particular college
10:14
level. How is it that it becomes a team
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sport? Is each person sort of where
10:19
they place adding some points to a team total?
10:23
That's correct. So the conference championships,
10:27
typically a three day event, you got your prelims in the morning
10:30
based on kind of your seed times that you have during the year
10:35
that will seat you into a finals or consolation rounds.
10:38
And then whether you place, you know, one through 8 in that
10:42
finals round or 9 through 16 in that consolation room has a
10:47
series of points over those three days.
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The Max of events will determine which team wins.
10:56
OK. And so how have you kind of
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carried some of those lessons from competitive team athletics
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into your working career? And this was, again, I think
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just a great lesson from my coach was Jerry Champer.
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And, you know, they would draw on a blackboard where we put our
11:15
workout on what looks like a trophy.
11:19
And so that was always the goal. And so as you start your season
11:24
kind of the end of August, championship, the middle of
11:27
February, it is so easy to say all we've got to do all meet
11:30
against this particular school. We should beat them.
11:34
That was never the goal. We, we would have sometimes a
11:37
very hard workout on a Wednesday, have a meet on a
11:40
Thursday and lose to a team that we shouldn't lose.
11:44
Also during the Christmas break, teams typically we were in the
11:48
north because we're in Illinois would head down Arizona or
11:52
Florida to really have very intensive training kind of we
11:56
call them 22A days. So you'd really add your mileage
12:00
and distance during that period. Some schools would actually have
12:05
a short rest and do an invitation.
12:07
We'll meet and, and they would get some really good times.
12:10
But we swam through that because the goal was the championship.
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And so I, I, I really look at that in business, if you're
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saying where you're going, you're not trying to hit a
12:19
monthly result or a quarterly result, where's the company
12:22
going? So that alignment to that
12:24
particular goal they now like carries over from sports, but
12:28
carries over into business as well.
12:35
So I'm a little confused the the example that you used about hard
12:39
workout on a Wednesday and losing to a competitor you
12:43
shouldn't have lost to on a Thursday, was that a good thing
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that you did? Was that a bad thing that you
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did? How do you view that?
12:50
View that as good because it wasn't getting, let's say
12:53
monthly result in business. We need to hit a number.
12:56
Same thing you don't get Sophies for dual meet records.
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You kept trophies for winning the championship at the end of
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the year, so it was keeping yourself consistent on what that
13:06
real goal was, not kind of the, as I said, gold stickers along
13:11
the way. Gotcha.
13:13
So while it would have been nice to beat that one school on a
13:17
Thursday, hey, we're OK not doing that because we're getting
13:22
in better shape for the end of the year.
13:24
Our our goal, our mission is the long term vision here.
13:29
Long term vision and so that got to become a guiding principles
13:34
from a leadership perspective 25 years later as I sit here and
13:39
enrolls within business. Yeah.
13:42
And then you lived in Amsterdam during the financial crisis O
13:46
eight O 9 and then also worked in Calgary in in Canada.
13:51
How did these international assignments kind of shape your
13:54
professional perspective? No, definitely first of all,
13:58
thinking the executives that provided those opportunities
14:01
because it's one thing to travel to a country on a vacation.
14:04
I think you learned some stuff, but the global perspective I got
14:08
where you actually live there, you move your family, you change
14:11
your life. You know how you get groceries
14:15
in Amsterdam actually wrote, you know, took a bicycle to the
14:19
train station to to get. So you're actually living in
14:22
and, and adapting to the culture of those situations.
14:26
And in both scenarios, right, I had projects I was responsible
14:31
for. And change is hard when you're
14:33
dealing with your colleagues that you have every day in your
14:36
office. Now you go to another country
14:38
and you're trying to create some level of change.
14:40
You're the foreigner. In some cases you were younger
14:44
compared to the folks that you were working with, but you still
14:47
had a project that you're working for.
14:49
So whether it was making the regional treasury center,
14:53
bringing activity to Amsterdam from Norway or Germany or Italy
14:59
or Spain, it was that ability to sit down with those country
15:03
leaderships. And my biggest take away was
15:05
around the diplomacy from that because again, those folks had
15:12
to run and operate a business while I was still trying to come
15:15
alongside and make some changes. Again, driven by that financial
15:19
crisis, trying to make sure we had our funds and cash in places
15:24
that were a little more reputable from a banking
15:26
perspective. Is there more detail that you
15:30
can share about what it was that you were working through there?
15:34
Yeah. So one of the elements of the EU
15:39
there is different tax advantages and Netherlands had
15:43
very favorable tax components and and one of the big goals was
15:48
to make sure you really had substance in those holding
15:50
companies. And so that was kind of the goal
15:53
of the regional treasury center saying we weren't only going to
15:55
have the cash management investment piece, but we were
15:58
going to have tax and legal and some level of management
16:01
structure in place guiding the different European countries
16:05
that rolled up into that holding structure.
16:08
In addition to that, it was kind of on the onset of the financial
16:12
crisis where just having banking deposits in local banks which
16:19
could result to business development for those local
16:24
executives weren't always the safest places when it wasn't
16:27
just a company's money. But we also in the type of work
16:30
we did had fiduciary money. So it was really transit for
16:34
that 90 day period of time where you were holding it either on
16:37
behalf of the insurance company or on behalf of the customer.
16:40
And so you really had to take care and concern with where you
16:43
were placing those proceeds. And you've mentioned some of
16:47
the, I don't know, bigger life challenges of moving to another
16:52
country, you know, not just being there for a short period
16:55
of time, but now you've picked up your life, your family, and
16:58
you've got to adapt to new way of life somewhere else.
17:01
What was the biggest cultural shock or change that you had to
17:05
adapt to that might surprise our listeners?
17:09
On the hamster game front, obviously language, right?
17:13
And so you'd start to be aware of different words that you
17:17
would read on signs or hear, but definitely leaning into the
17:22
colleagues that I had there. The Netherlands is a place where
17:26
people are multilingual. And so I could bring in a phone
17:31
bills that I would get or other documents and get it translated
17:35
for me. And so you had to really humble
17:38
yourself on that process because you didn't know a lot of
17:41
different things, but that was actually what made it fun out of
17:44
that naivety of what this looks like.
17:46
But but really moving. And we had an 18 month old at
17:49
the time. So you're moving your your
17:51
little one and your wife and everything out to a country
17:55
trying to find a place to live that you can afford in that
17:59
situation. Because we wanted to live in the
18:03
city center area could like, we're never going to do this
18:06
again. But really leaning into that
18:08
experience. And my biggest take away was
18:12
don't go in that space as an American, right?
18:14
You need to go in as a visitor and really on or whatever
18:17
cultural activities are there and not bring attention to
18:22
yourself that is unnecessary or doesn't, you know, represent the
18:27
environment very well. Craig, multiple times in our
18:31
conversation already, you've talked about the importance of
18:33
people working together, processes.
18:37
I think it's always easier for people to wrap their heads
18:40
around what that really means when we can focus on a specific
18:45
story. Is there a story about a time
18:48
where you refined a process significantly that helped both
18:54
improve results and employee morale?
18:58
Yeah, so you had brought up the Calgary example.
19:02
And so when we looked at where we were having our defect
19:06
scenario was a with our threading machines, the data
19:10
supported that. But it's like how do you solve
19:12
not just that part of the process, the entire production
19:15
line. And here is an example using
19:18
lean methodology. We brought in our different
19:21
colleagues that have that expertise, some management
19:24
folks, union team members, and had kind of a three day workshop
19:28
of the putting on the wall, all the different steps in the
19:32
production line allowing space for people to feel heard about
19:37
what they like or don't like about the current process.
19:39
So not a pointing fingers, but we didn't edit the
19:42
conversations, kept them super raw because I think when people
19:46
are able to express themselves now you're at a place where we
19:50
can start problem solving together.
19:52
And while we were walking through that particular set of
19:56
datas and scenarios with issues attached to each kind of
20:01
production process in line. You really came along together
20:05
since you were saying here's what we're seeing as the
20:08
problem, here's what we're trying to do.
20:10
And that's amazing when you know, they're the team members
20:13
that go back to the production line.
20:14
It's not me running the machine, right for for various reasons,
20:18
not in the union and had no idea how to operate it, but they
20:22
would take their suggestions or findings and put them into
20:25
practice. And so Fast forward you, you not
20:29
have the results of less downtime, less rework, producing
20:36
the product on time for the customers that you're looking
20:38
for. And so it goes back to that
20:40
sense of ownership. Don't tell people the answer and
20:42
you may or may not know the answer, but the telling effect
20:45
is hard. It's really saying, here's what
20:48
we came to decide together. Now how do we go about doing our
20:52
different pieces? And so it goes back to that team
20:56
component. I have like to call 22 of us to
20:59
win championships. It takes the whole, you know,
21:02
union staff and and management staff to have a successful
21:06
production line so to not sit and silo let you've got the
21:09
answers. So I've been a part of similar
21:14
types of conversations in my own businesses.
21:16
OK, we've got an issue. There's a bottleneck here.
21:19
Something's not working, we're making errors.
21:21
Let's all sit down together and figure it out.
21:24
And then, OK, everybody gets to air their ideas, their concerns,
21:29
and we come up with a plan. And then sometimes as much as
21:34
we're all on board with the plan, leaving that meeting,
21:37
there's some drop off. People revert back to old ways.
21:42
Have you experienced that yourself and and how do you
21:45
combat against it? Yeah, what we kind of that lean
21:50
methodology process does list out those takeaways.
21:55
And so you know, the, the big message I learned from that
21:59
whole process is have a task with a name and a date, right.
22:04
And so now you've put a place where Anthony, you're
22:07
responsible for X, I'm responsible for Y.
22:11
We're regularly getting together or recapping the status of that.
22:14
And when you communicate in an open way about status on a
22:20
project, it, it, it, it really keeps the group consistent
22:25
because hey, that Friday report is going out.
22:28
We are talking about where we're at.
22:30
We've committed to some series of actions by a particular date.
22:34
Doesn't mean the date can't move.
22:35
But I find having a date gives you more likely that the sense
22:42
of urgency to work on that task because we're all busy.
22:45
But are we busy on the the right things?
22:49
I like that. A task, a name, a date, then
22:52
you've got accountability. Got accountability right, And
22:55
it's not to beat people over the head without accountability, but
22:57
just. You need somebody to own.
23:00
A task we could do that, yeah. Yeah.
23:04
Do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert, Greg?
23:08
I am an introvert through and through, very much so.
23:15
How do you manage and balance your energy when your role seems
23:21
to me like there's so much external interaction, right?
23:25
You're bringing different parties together.
23:27
You're, you're constantly interacting with people because
23:30
you win with people. How do you handle that as an
23:34
introvert? Well, it's definitely flexing
23:38
into the extraversion my my brothers have steps going
23:42
through. So I grew up with, with seeing
23:44
that piece, but as you alluded to, the, the roles I've started
23:49
to be in are requiring that. It became very prominent to me
23:54
last year. You know, when you're earlier in
23:59
your career, you would go to events and there's other leaders
24:02
there. So you're really a, a guest.
24:04
And now I've started to realize, oh, I'm not a guest.
24:07
I'm a, I'm a host. And so the importance of
24:10
interacting with the different team members, customers, their
24:15
family members, whoever you're, you need to be there for them.
24:20
And so I had an event, as a matter of fact, last night after
24:24
I came home from it, went for a run.
24:26
So, so I do need some sort of recharging, whether it's, you
24:30
know, running or riding, reading my bike or or reading a book,
24:35
just time alone to, to recoup and get that back.
24:39
I can't run at that level all time, but I can flex for periods
24:43
of time so. So you're going into a zone of
24:49
discomfort for you, and then after that period of time,
24:53
you've got to sort of sink back into some solitude to recharge
24:56
your batteries. Very much so, and.
25:00
We talked earlier about, you know, we were asking the
25:04
question about what was it the the pipe like, you know, where
25:07
where does the audacity for, you know, Greg, who's never
25:10
manufactured pipe in his life to come in and question that we
25:13
can't make this particular, you know, size product.
25:16
And you're like, I just ask questions and sometimes using
25:22
your words here, dumb questions. How is that ability to ask dumb
25:27
questions really help to influence the arc of your
25:30
career? Yeah, there's definitely couple
25:33
examples that have helped me through that.
25:34
I remember growing up, you know, dad had a car phone in the car,
25:39
and now we have a supercomputer in our pocket.
25:43
And so it's it's interesting where we're quick to make
25:45
changes in our personal lives and then sometimes leave
25:49
practices in work that are maybe right at the time they were put
25:53
in place, but maybe now they're outdated.
25:56
And so really it's that sense of curiosity of help me understand
26:01
why do we do this? I'm not saying I've got an
26:03
answer, it just, I've got a question here.
26:05
And, and so that curiosity or naivety or perceived night T
26:10
allows entering into let's figure this out together because
26:15
I, I lean into time, emotional energy and money or capital
26:20
being your scarce resources. And so we've got to be good
26:23
about that. You know, Hey, we make this
26:26
report takes 4 hours a, a day every week.
26:29
OK, who looks at that report? What decision are we making from
26:33
it? Because, because I, if I can
26:35
reallocate A-Team member to four hours of something else, Hey,
26:39
let's, let's do that. You know, that's a much better,
26:42
more proactive use. My guess is that you're allowing
26:46
space for that team member to feel a little more engaged on
26:49
doing a different task. And so, you know, that's kind of
26:54
one piece. The other is I I have a lens of
26:58
product or industry agnostic that gets me in trouble in
27:01
certain interviews or job search process, having been now in my
27:06
8th industry. But it goes back to everything
27:09
you do is through with people and you're putting a strategy
27:13
around that. The widget or the product
27:16
happens to be an output, but how you interact with people, how
27:19
you look at the customer, how you use technology, the widget
27:23
in my mind doesn't matter, which allows me to say, hey, in this
27:27
other industry we did this way, why do we do it here?
27:31
And so it's that naivety that allows a curious question.
27:37
You know, and I wonder maybe this is an area where you can
27:39
offer me a little bit of personal coaching, Greg, because
27:42
I'm also a very curious person. I like to ask a lot of questions
27:45
and sometimes I find that the person I'm asking the questions
27:49
to is really happy that I'm inquiring and, and digging deep
27:53
and like, like it helps them feel engaged and like, you know,
27:56
I care and what and what they're doing.
27:59
In other times, I think my question comes across as finger
28:04
pointing or like abrasive or like like I'm prying.
28:10
And so I wonder how you approach, how you sort of lay
28:13
the foundation so that people are, you know, on guard, you're
28:17
sort of putting their guard down and and they want to participate
28:21
in that process with you. Years ago, you you you'd come in
28:28
to a boss's office and and present what you thought was the
28:31
greatest idea since sliced bread.
28:34
And they were not happy about that.
28:37
What I found is if this series of questions or idea doesn't
28:42
create that reaction of discomfort, it's not change,
28:47
right? So, and when you go, the
28:49
realities are death, taxes and change.
28:51
That's the only variables in life.
28:55
And so at least playing that seed, you may not go into that
29:02
problem solving conversation because this is maybe the first
29:06
time you've presented that topic with the individual.
29:08
So they, they are going to be guarded.
29:10
Like what are you talking about? I have this it's an order.
29:12
It's good, it makes sense. Think that's fine.
29:17
We'll we'll come back to it and it and it's that coming back to
29:19
it. It's the.
29:22
Maybe don't go full press the first time.
29:25
Correct. It's about planning that seed
29:27
for a future conversation and and hopefully ideally there's
29:30
some initial credibility with that individual.
29:33
If you don't have that to start, it's probably building that
29:37
first. But as you have that credibility
29:40
in that scenario, ideally the candor should allow that
29:45
dialogue, but it usually is a series of three or four
29:48
discussions where at first I, I expect a visceral reaction.
29:53
And so I'm not offended by that anymore, but we'll talk about it
29:56
two or three more times. It's the, hey, I, maybe I'm
29:59
wrong with whatever is being presented.
30:02
Give me a little bit perspective of why you think X is needed.
30:05
And so it actually is then in a roundabout way having them pause
30:08
and think because just look at the technology front, hey, why
30:12
we did certain things 10 years ago, absolutely we're the right
30:15
answer. Now you have Amazon tracking to
30:18
your home on the day you ordered something.
30:20
So there's just different expectations with that
30:24
knowledge, the technology and but definitely on the
30:27
generational front that I think requires you to have those types
30:33
of questions. I wonder how you approach
30:38
turning that data into actionable insight.
30:42
Like I, I've had companies in the past where and we had just
30:46
mountains and mountains of data. We put them in databases and
30:49
spreadsheets and try to analyte like surely there has to be an
30:52
insight here on what's working and what's not.
30:54
And a lot of times I just go cross eyed trying to make sense
30:57
of that. What what's your approach?
30:59
How do you think about that? So for whatever worth is like
31:06
having everything is basically having nothing.
31:09
And So what helped me in the pipe facilities, we had three
31:14
metrics with that. Those 3 metrics helped turn
31:17
around the business because you kept it simple.
31:19
Not that other things are important or helpful, but being
31:22
a data guy, I get overwhelmed with looking at 50 spreadsheets.
31:27
So if you're not a data person, how how 50 spreadsheets?
31:32
And frankly, is the spreadsheet the right way when so many
31:35
people are visual consumers of information?
31:38
And so it's really finding those couple to start with.
31:43
Doesn't mean you can't add more overtime, but giving everything
31:47
to everybody is hard. Think about your car.
31:51
There's a black box that tracks everything on your car.
31:54
And the only way you get is when you go to the dealership.
31:57
What's in front of you is speed, gas, temperature.
32:01
You know a handful of elements that tell you, do I have an
32:04
issue or not with our car? Are you a mechanic?
32:07
No, but you can tell if your car is having a problem or not.
32:10
That's what we want to do in the business environment.
32:14
More of a dashboard kind of a thing for most folks.
32:17
Yeah. So let's switch gears here,
32:20
Greg. And I'd like to hear about a big
32:23
challenge that you've overcome in your life, how you got
32:27
through it, and what you learned in that process.
32:30
Yeah, real business. It wasn't really qualified to
32:39
make AL swim team, but there was an opportunity provided by the
32:42
so it was first year recruiting. So you earned your way under a
32:46
team, eventually earned your way to scholarship and and making
32:49
captain. And so senior youth training
32:53
having success because there's a couple sets that you would
32:56
repeat year after year. And so you kind of have a sense
32:59
of where you work performance wise versus prior years.
33:04
And then going into our Christmas training environment,
33:07
I, I pull my shoulder. So now season's done, the team
33:11
is down in Florida doing their 2A days having success and, and,
33:16
and you're not going through the, the rest and recovery and,
33:21
and then rehab to, to get your shoulder working.
33:25
You put so much of your life and, and vision into what could
33:29
end a college career in this space.
33:32
And so you, you definitely were on the potential to lose
33:35
yourself. But then as I was home during
33:38
that time before going back in the second semester, it's like
33:41
I'm on a team. I have a role.
33:43
I can't be in the pool with my fellow teammates back.
33:49
I can be them cheerleader. And so, you know, in a, in a
33:52
sling on the on the deck, you have a clipboard writing down
33:57
times, helping the coaches, cheering on the other guys at
34:03
practice. And then we get to conference
34:07
you, you're losing your voice, you're cheering so hard and
34:09
encouraging the guys. And, and then the end we won
34:12
that championship. And in reflected on that you,
34:17
you, you realize things will happen.
34:21
That chapter will close and then you have a new chapter.
34:25
And and to go back and say that entire experience has guided my
34:29
leadership philosophy for 25 years.
34:32
Or at the time, a 22 year old just feels like he lost
34:35
everything, realized it was just the beginning.
34:38
So yeah, going through challenges like that.
34:43
Yeah. And I want to, I'm going to
34:45
spend just a few more minutes on this because, yeah, you talk
34:49
about it like, Oh yeah, that must have been hard, right?
34:51
You hurt your shoulder, you know, competitive swimming and,
34:54
you know, you had to be in a sling and rehab, you know, OK,
34:57
what, what's next? But I mean, to really sort of
35:00
dive into the emotional aspect of what that must have meant to
35:05
you at the time. And I'm going to, I'm going to
35:08
put words in your mouth and you tell me if I'm on the right
35:10
track or not. Because I've talked with a lot
35:12
of athletes, but through some of my own stuff.
35:14
When so much of your identity is wrapped up in something, whether
35:19
it's a career, whether it's a a sport, whatever family, whatever
35:24
it is, and now that thing is taken away from you, it can be
35:28
really destabilizing. It's like, wait a minute, That's
35:31
what I did every day. That's a big part of who I
35:35
believed I I was a competitive. I am a competitive.
35:37
I thought I was a competitive swimmer.
35:39
Now who am I? Where do I fit in and what do I
35:41
do and what what what do I do with my life every day now with
35:45
that's gone? It's like, I mean, yes, there's
35:49
the physical pain and there's the the rehab that you have to
35:52
go through. There's sort of that physical
35:53
aspect of it, but the mentally emotional part of it have to
35:56
imagine is way worse. Oh definitely, especially you
36:00
get just looking at the age at 22, this is who you became to
36:05
Because again, back to my early comment, probably shouldn't have
36:09
been there but was given an opportunity.
36:13
Coach, open the door. I've had other bosses open the
36:15
doors that also fed into my leadership approach.
36:19
And you're about to wrap up your four year college experience and
36:25
go on and do life. And yet you didn't have the
36:28
closure to something that just a month or two before you knew you
36:33
were at such a high level of at least your ability and to not
36:38
complete what that could have been from a time perspective in
36:41
your different events. And to go from in the pool to
36:46
standing and watching while you're a captain and while
36:50
you're scholars like. So there's a lot of you in your
36:54
character that you built around that and to have to modify that.
37:01
But again, through the encouragement of family, of the
37:04
coaches, teammates, but it and I know people had more challenging
37:11
experiences than that. But at the time it seems like
37:15
it's everything. And you can take a variety of
37:18
paths. You can say, I'm just going to
37:20
quit. You can make some destructive
37:23
habits. But that lesson of stuff is
37:27
going to happen because we're not going to have our fairy tale
37:31
potentially or it may look different.
37:33
And now to look back at it, I'm like, and if that didn't happen,
37:37
I don't think my road map would look the way it does.
37:40
So there's thankfulness and that hurt and growth to move forward.
37:46
It's interesting that you are able to look back at that with a
37:49
sense of gratitude now and realize that your path may not
37:52
have unfolded the same way. And and why is that?
37:55
Where do you think that you may have forked differently in life?
38:04
I think the biggest part of maintaining that Fort is, you
38:11
know, as you get to a place where you are with family or
38:17
colleagues that have whatever their version of adversity is,
38:21
you can now to the best of your ability, put yourself in their
38:27
shoes. And so that ability to make
38:29
community with them as far as the path itself, you get used to
38:37
if there's Nos on the job search, if there's Nos on your
38:40
project, it doesn't mean this is over or doesn't even mean no
38:48
phrase that keeps coming to mind to me is not now.
38:52
And so that not now as if you're feeling compelled to go down
38:57
that particular path or better yourself in that scenario.
39:02
One's the right situation for that.
39:04
So I, I think it just encourages you to be reflective, to get
39:09
really clear on what you're good at and knowing that sometimes it
39:16
looks different. It's not bad, it just looks
39:18
different. You know, and I was just having
39:21
a similar conversation with another guest and it the same
39:25
kind of message strikes me here. Is that it?
39:28
And it's so hard to do in the moment, but if you can coach
39:31
yourself to believe that the hard thing that you're going
39:35
through right now isn't happening to you, it's happening
39:39
for you. Meaning that there is some
39:42
bigger benefit for you on the other side of this.
39:45
You're you're stronger, you're wiser, you're better, you've got
39:49
thicker armor, you're better prepared for something that's
39:51
going to come down the road. And sometimes it gives you that
39:54
little bit of light that you need in that moment.
39:57
Correct. And now it's like I've got a
39:59
freshman in college and was talking with him the other day
40:02
and as he's trying to. Figure out what he wants to do
40:06
or which clubs or activities to participate.
40:10
It's explain them like that. I had the same kind of thoughts
40:14
or challenges at your age and in some cases I still have them
40:17
even today. And so you don't think our
40:20
issues or challenges or thoughts are different.
40:24
They just have different experiences attached to that.
40:27
And so trying to be a share of those paths and it really goes
40:32
back to, you know, coming out of college, having some of the
40:36
mentors that I and they, you know, leaned into me on their
40:42
stories. And so it really becomes that
40:45
circle of of life conversation. It's something fun that you like
40:50
to do outside of work, right? Again, having swimming college,
40:56
the swimming part is easy in the triathlon environment, but
41:00
getting into the biking and, and, and running and, and at
41:03
different stages, the, you know, the family or the kids, you had
41:09
some flexibility, different seasons of work.
41:12
And so getting back into that rhythm.
41:14
And then on top of that, being here in Colorado, hiking the
41:18
mountains that we have is, is a lot of fun.
41:21
So just being outdoors now. I've just got one more question
41:26
for you today, Greg. But before I ask it, I want to
41:29
do a few things. First of all, anybody looking to
41:32
get in touch with Greg, check him out on LinkedIn.
41:34
Greg Zabakow spelled ZABIKOW and we'll include a link to that in
41:39
the show notes for folks. Also as a reminder, if you want
41:43
to get more employees access to benefits that won't hurt them
41:46
financially and carries a financial upside for the
41:49
company, reach out to add back benefits.com.
41:52
And finally, if you take just a moment to leave us a comment or
41:55
review on your favorite podcast app, we will be forever grateful
41:59
to you. So last question for you, Greg,
42:02
you and I reconnect one year from today and you are
42:05
celebrating something big. Best pumping up in the air, kind
42:08
of celebrating. What's that big thing you hope
42:11
to be celebrating one year from now?
42:13
Yeah, On the work front, as I mentioned, got our ERP going
42:18
live next weekend. And so just having a technology
42:21
platform that we can build off of and more of the team members
42:25
knowledgeable than we were historically on.
42:29
On the personal front, again, getting back into the the the
42:34
triathlon racing piece, I've got a next July in New Mexico, my
42:39
11th half Ironman and it's interesting, we're not in our
42:42
20s anymore, so things hurt a little bit better.
42:46
So so crossing that finish line will also be quite exciting.
42:49
So not just a triathlon and Ironman triathlon.
42:53
And. What are the different 1/2
42:55
Ironman? OK, So what are the what are the
42:57
the metrics and how many miles in the swim, in the ride and the
43:01
run? Yeah, so we got 1.1 mile swim,
43:06
56 mile bike and 13.2 mile run. So is it?
43:11
The run gets me so I got to. Work on that.
43:14
All right. Well, good luck with that.
43:16
Greg Zabakow, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing
43:20
both your time and your story with us today.
43:22
I really appreciate it. Absolutely.
43:25
Thank you for your time, Anthony.
43:25
It's been a blast. Folks, that's a wrap on another
43:29
episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
43:32
Thanks for learning with us today.