Latest / To The Moon With The Luna's Podcast / Jeff Booth: Why Life Gets More Expensive (And Bitcoin Fixes It)

Transcript

Jeff Booth: Why Life Gets More Expensive (And Bitcoin Fixes It) · To The Moon With The Luna's Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: We need assets because why do we think in an assets?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why do people call Bitcoin an asset?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: We think of assets because we can't store our money in money.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: There is no reason for an asset if you could store your money in money.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the perfect money is the perfect asset.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because it prices everything else.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason you need an asset is screaming at you that the money system is broken.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's telling you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's screaming at you.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then it is trying to shake you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: You need these assets.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: You need to protect your money from being stolen because the system you live in is stealing your money.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then people are talking about that.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I need to buy a house.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I need more debt to buy a house.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be in private equity funds.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be in all of these assets.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: For the very reason because I can't store my money in money.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And people think that's normal.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, well, welcome back to To the Moon with the Lunas.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Bitcoin is sitting right around 686,000.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're joined by someone we've been really excited to talk to, Jeff Booth, entrepreneur, investor, and author of the Price of Tomorrow.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff has spent years exploring a simple but powerful question.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: If technology is making everything more efficient and cheaper, why does life keep getting more expensive?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jeff, welcome to the Mom with Lunas.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're excited to have you.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Really great to be here.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nice to meet you guys.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: So, so good.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: We're very excited.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: And um, as I'd mentioned off camera, you know, being newer to the space, I've learned so much.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm still learning so much.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I've been able to plug into so many of your podcasts.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_04: That's the way I'm able to absorb information right now is just by listening.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, one day I'll be reading more books because just my season of life isn't been conducive to that right now.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, so excited, Jeff, to hear from you and um so thankful for the time that you're spending with us.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Daniel.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jeff, I kind of want to jump right into things.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you wrote The Press of Tomorrow several years ago.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then looking at the world today, what do you think you got right?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like what has surprised you so far?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I get a lot of people that have read that book over and over and over again and sometimes read a read it five or six times, and every time they say they grab something different from it.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think it's it I think it's because it it's such a challenging concept from our old mental model.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: It should be so simple.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: It should be so simple to understand.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think the first time you read that book, you're measuring it, you're questioning what?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Deflation, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Deflation, and we would all go, we'd all die, right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: They'd we've always been told we need inflation.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And no one's ever questioned why.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I actually don't think there's much in the book that I would change.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um if I had to sacrifice depth in some cases to tie the whole story together.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in some of the in some of the chapters, um, I couldn't go as deep as I wanted to because you'd get lost in the weeds.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so you but but it I think it opened the door for people to go deeper if they wanted to.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's two places in the book uh where could I have gone deeper or would it have changed today?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And one uh one of them I would have explored nuclear energy energy deeper, and uh as one of the pieces of energy that was actually probably um again slowed down for a control system where the relied on oil, and because if you had abundant energy, you would have broken the system a lot a lot earlier.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't control abundant energy.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is and I don't think I'd change this.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I had to open the door to Bitcoin, but I couldn't go uh there's two parts to that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I had to open the door to Bitcoin, but I couldn't go uh as as deep on Bitcoin because you would have lost the plot.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Most people wouldn't have been able to hang on to it.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the other part of that is I wasn't as deep as I am now on Bitcoin.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I saw it as a potential solution, um, but I didn't I didn't actually understand it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Danielle, you said you're early uh in in your journey.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was at that time too, not earlier than now, hadn't spent enough cycles and and really didn't understand it fully to understand kind of what it was imposing rather than what it could do.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think that's w some of the concepts that I've heard from your book too have um definitely opened my eyes to you know the systems that we're in and how so so much is changing in the world constantly, so quickly.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like everything's changing so quickly.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um and one of the big ideas in your book is that technology is naturally deflationary.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so if technology is constantly making us more productive and you know bringing costs down, why does everyday life still feel so expensive and feel like it's getting more expensive?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and whatever level you want to start at uh at, but if you're talking to a first-time person, that's a really good spot for curiosity, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So for them to question why.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because they'll come up with all of the reasons that they hear in the market, those bad corporations, it's the Democrats, it's the Republicans, it's because of this, it's because of China, it's because of the war.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um all of those things um are caused, are are part of the control system, printing money to make things more expensive from an from a piece of paper or or a credit instrument that has to grow exponentially.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, if you measured units, just units of the world, and you kept on increasing the units of the world to measure things, those things would become more expensive.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so so everybody is everybody except for a very small percentage of Bitcoiners that are actually spending in it, everybody is measuring the entire world and everything in it from units that are artificially created to create more units.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And of course prices go up from those more units.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But that imp that kind of precipitates that the question you asked, the question I asked in my book.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just technology, the free market has to give us more value because we're both parts of it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have to we're one part when we're an entrepreneur or working for an entrepreneur or working for a company or a company that has to compete to provide more value against everything that was there before.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we're the other part of it when we choose more value.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we always choose more value.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So how could both of those things that we're part of and it's and and then you create things out of your brain that are like AI that are creating more and more value that were then we use the AI to create more value or to find things faster or to do things faster and better cheaper?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: If if we're part of that equation, how could prices rise?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh go ahead, Jeff?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, go ahead.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and and this takes you on uh uh on a rabbit hole that that you if you're curious, you just keep going and going and going and and and as as you go and and um and it's too big a deal for a lot of people.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's and why I say it's too big a deal, because if what I just said is true and it's categorically true, then it means that all of their time in the other system is contributing to a system that they're yelling at and making their life worse while it's them themselves doing it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's that's so hard to take.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So because it means it means you have choice.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It means you it means by by moving your time out of the system into a new system, then you you make the world better by your actions in the new system.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that that's a really hard concept to to to take, especially when people when you s when you're first learning what I'm what I'm talking about right now.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: You you don't realize you have agency.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: You don't realize you have as much as much agency as you do.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um you want to believe it's those other people.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's always an ex there's always an excuse in the media and all of the in uh information that you're watching that it's those other people, so you want to believe it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can't it can't be you.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: And that was one of the things that I coming into this space, I was trying to figure out like, is this like have I been lied to my whole life?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and that's you have, right?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Same, you have you have.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's so outrageous.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to believe it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: I know, and you can't, and and you're right, people cannot absorb that information, you know.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: Even for me, coming in slowly with Anthony.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: Anthony obviously found Bitcoin before I did, um, and just was in the um just trying to navigate this whole space in uh initially, and I couldn't even conceptualize what he was talking about.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like I really couldn't understand it because I think our system has created us to be such busy people or you know, busier doing things, and we're always in a system of having to go to work from this time, and our kids have to be in certain things and our our um food needs to look a certain way and our bodies need to look a certain way.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just all of these um things that we think we need in this system, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: And when you're hearing that for the first time, you're going, oh my gosh, like how do I, what have we been doing this whole time and what do we do now?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: And that kind of leads me to my personally, I'm thinking, like, how do we practically, like you've always talked about exiting a system, like how do you practically do that, you know, in this, in this world?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: Because I've I I know there's other people that think like me, obviously, that I'm not the only one, but how do we do that?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, first, I I want to can commend you guys for both uh just doing the podcast, reaching out to me and everything else.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: You will have a network of friends who will be in the same position that you were in, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um hearing something for the first time and and having a hard time grabbing onto it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're pushing really hard, if you're pushing that you need to know this, you need you'll push them away.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: But if you if you just are the and explore this concept and allow them to explore it in their time, they'll start to explore it the same way you did.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And in the same way I did, and the same way this is a change in each of us, and it's a and it has to be and it has to be, even though Bitcoin is imposing this new discipline, and we can go into that afterwards, each of us needs to understand it in our own time and move towards it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Make it make an open choice whether what we're for, what system we're for, what we're for, and and and it's hard to get it to this.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So so first off, like thanks for doing what you're doing.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're gonna touch people, you won't know you touched people, and it's gonna make a difference.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um then then the how and and what that looks like comes again, it comes down to each individual choice.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: If if our if the world we live in is a collection of our choices, and all of our choices blame other people for the world we live in and can treat and use the money that we know is a lie so that more of that money is printed that we live more in a lie, and we're competing in that lie to do more and more.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it'll look exactly what you said.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: It'll look like everybody, there's there's scams everywhere.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can't trust anything, you're on a hamster wheel going faster and faster and faster for what?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you, your, your time, your entire life is being sucked into that energy.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't put your finger on the thing that is being sucked into the energy because it's the whole system you're living in and contributing to.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, uh so that will that will lead to a lot of stress, fear, belief it's somebody else, and a lot of those, a lot of people from that fear won't have a chance to be able to see what we're talking about.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're living in the fear in the fear created from the thing that they have no idea that's being created.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: They've never asked what is money.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: They've never asked themselves, why do I why why can somebody print like essentially steal my time by making up more units of money?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And do I have a vote in it?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, I don't have a real democracy.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have anything that I believed that I had.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But even some of the things I'm saying right now, those are those are hard to hear if it's your first time.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Categorically true, anybody could take any of the things I said and say and and investigate and say, is this true?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you could find it's absolutely true.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then they still have to make the choice of which system they want to want to do and how much time.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Every part of your time, if you take one percent of your time from the other system to the new system, it'll start to feel like it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: It'll start to like you are doing, like this podcast is doing, like meeting us doing what we're doing right now is doing it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and you'll want to move more of your time.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you um if you get a haircut and you start talking to uh to to your hairdresser or barber or whatever, and you you s start talking about the same thing in a way that they they can't, um, then they might accept Bitcoin.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can move some of your purchasing power into Bitcoin.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you do something else, your the stores you frequent.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you move some of your purchasing into Bitcoin.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And from from there, you'll see your actions, your direct actions create a reflection of the world you live in.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, these are such big ideas too, Jeff.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like whenever you talk about these, like exiting the system and looking yourself in the mirror and stop contributing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, wait, the units are going up, and how are these people stealing my time?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: What is money?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when I first started listening to you, Jeff, I was always like, I would have to listen to your podcast, like each one, like two or three times.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you would and you would say that in the podcast.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, yeah, someone needs to look, they're gonna have to listen to this two or three times to get it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I would that was me.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was me.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always like putting my thinking cap on, and I'm like, okay, let me listen to this again, Jeff.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then so I would hear that, um, that which is so funny because these are big concepts and people can't grasp it, and they're too, they're too busy in the rat race.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And going back a little bit to what you were sharing is you know, they're making units, and everyone's measuring these units in in dollars.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have to ask you.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So right now we're like, I think we're at$40 trillion right now in our national debt.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how is this sustainable?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when is it and so what I wanted to ask you?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So back then we would be like, ooh,$13 trillion was a lot.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh,$15 trillion was$20 trillion.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're at$40.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how far can this actually go?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jeff, because there's they're they're printing money like it's going out of style, and they don't care.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And to tie this with your question to to tie the both of these questions together, you always share, like, hey, like we're really early.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: We are so early.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: So how are we so early?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And how long could this actually go on along?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so more than likely this goes on a lot longer, and it ends in more pain for a lot of people, for many people that are measuring from that system than they can even imagine how much pain.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be so so I'm not trying to fear monger here, but it's gonna be so outrageous and so chaotic.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's so right now, if you're watching this podcast, when you're talking about 40 trillion and the amount of units measuring, take up take Bitcoin price into US dollars and look at Bitcoin price versus US dollars.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then your next search, look in Venezuela and Boulevard and look at the units measuring Venezuela and say how much Bitcoin is worth in Venezuela.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing's changed in Bitcoin.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: The units measuring it in both countries are different.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now ask the people of Venezuela what has happened in Venezuela and all of the dictators and crushing economic uh conditions and poverty and just like despair and what's happened to the to the system.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, Venezuela was once the fourth richest country in the world.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um they called it the kind of Paris of uh South America.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and look at what's happened to the people and what are they doing?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're measuring a dollar that's infinitely printed.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and you look at their country and you look at them and saying third world and how can't they understand what's happening to them?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're doing the very same thing in a different printed unit.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you're when you realize that that you're no better, you just have a dollar that's losing value slightly slower than the other dollar, right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at all of the different currencies all over the world, that's happening all over the world.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you're uh everybody's playing on a rigged game.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and the US dollar has lost 99% of its value in the last hundred years.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you look at other currencies that have lost far more, like how do you lose far more than 99%, right?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: You reset over and over and over again.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So then you ask the question, um, what would make me different?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: If they had an option to get out to protect their purchasing power and move to Bitcoin, to something that couldn't be controlled, that was decentralized and secure and couldn't be controlled, and they didn't, they stayed in that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: What am I doing?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know the debt can't be paid back.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So so and worse, the debt is the system.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna do a simple kind of thing here, a toy experiment.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's imagine us three are the economy.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: The entire economy.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's three people on Earth, and we've created the the value, obviously it wouldn't have as much things in it, right, as but we're and and we we agree that we're gonna lend money into existence.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So money is debt, and we're gonna lend money into existence, but I'm the bank, I get to do it.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I I create money, I lend it into existence, and you have an interest rate.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It cost me nothing.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're in servitude to me from an interest rate, but you decide I'm gonna pay it back, I'm never gonna be in debt again.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: What happens?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's no use for that system.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's no money.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's no money.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's no money.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So so the the debt that people are talking about paying back, if the debt is paid back, there's no money.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: So so it was so when you zoom out not to the US debt, which is forty trillion, that cannot be paid back.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Look at do a Google search on on measuring a trillion dollars in seconds.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And look how much it is for uh compared to a billion dollars.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: People will like you'll you like how many years it would take to pay back um a trillion dollars.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's forty trillion dollars of debt.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but globally there's three hundred and fifty trillion dollars of debt.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you asked when does it end?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: When it should have ended like fifty years ago.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it should have ended then.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: It it we've lived in a control system denominated by somebody gets to print money, and it's not you.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you call it a democracy.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it it's a complete farce.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a it you could say it's a criminal enterprise.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it now that might be too hard for harsh for uh people, but somebody's stealing your time and you're contributing to it at a rate that is outrageous.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, prices should be falling.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not capturing just so prices should be falling at such a rate that if you did nothing, the global productivity of everyone else contributing to try to win a little piece, you standing still, your life would get better and better and better and better and better exponentially.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: As technology moved exponentially, it would feel you can't measure what I just described from the system uh from the system they're in.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what it that's what it would look like.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it looks like if you just hold Bitcoin.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's modern day slavery.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally modern day.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is literally modern day slavery.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And most people can't under and that right there, another big concept that most people can't even wrap their head around.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So no So the Coliseum, the Coliseum to appease the slaves, appease the crowds, is social media today.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or or Ukraine or what's happened to us.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that's a Coliseum today.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Keep us distracted, you know, and and it's doing exactly what it was intended to do.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's doing exactly what it's doing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: And it is so hard to hear, you know, that this is not and it's hard because you, you know, I'll talk to my parents and God bless them, they're awesome, they're successful people.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, you'll bring this up and they're like, I don't really understand what you're talking about, you know, and it's like, okay, I feel I feel like you should be looking around though and being like, things feel different, you know?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: And they know that, but it's like, well, it's not really affecting me.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that's, I feel like, another thing, too.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: Some people may or may not feel like it's affecting them, but it is going to affect them.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: It has to affect us, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whether we pretend it doesn't, it has to affect us because our neighborhoods are falling apart because of the same thing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Our political systems are falling apart from the the same the same thing.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're contributing to the thing and and we're talking about these things all the time, or people are talking about these things all the time.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they're talking about the symptom of the disease.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And constantly symptoms, symptoms, symptoms, symptoms.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I like I'd literally so by the way, my parents for a long time, or my my mom got it pretty instantly.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: My dad fought it forever.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and only through watching what should happen versus what it was happening and it and and it getting worse and worse and worse, he'd say, Oh wow.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And came came around to it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: But but it has to affect us.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: It has to affect us every there's no you couldn't build walls high enough to keep uh uh to keep those people out if you were in a system that was contributing to to driving those people into poverty.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the um it it's just so interesting too, Jeff.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you go going back to what you were sharing, like, oh, okay, well, we can also go and you know make an impact, look at ourselves, and we can be more direct with people, you know, our barber, the people around us, the our family, and stuff like that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: We do what we like to do now, like our favorite thing is like we look we we try to spend more Bitcoin.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Learning from this podcast, we just want to spend more Bitcoin.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to spend more Bitcoin.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll ask people everywhere we go, like, hey, do you accept Bitcoin?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny because just that simple question, you could see their wheels turning or or it's it's completely like shut off.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like blink stare, or like I've heard of that.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: You guys don't look crazy, you are crazy.
• 24:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I wanted to share with you is like it just seems that um you know, so many people though just slow to accept it, they're just slow to uh even explore it or be curious.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and at the same time, everybody's being robbed at the same time, being robbed slowly of their time and their purchasing power.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when when do you see a turn in adoption where it does seem a little bit more um going downhill where people are catching it, catching on?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I I use different uh I use Venezuela as an example, I could use Turkey as an example.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime where you see Lebanon, anytime where you see really high inflation rates and and government breakdowns, you see you see a faster cycle to Bitcoin.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in other words, through the crisis, people uh people exit the system.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the problem is not and some people stay there and do exactly what you're doing, they're contributing into it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And some people, once the crisis they feel is over, go right back, sell their Bitcoin back to a currency that's going to be debased.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so that's why these individual choices that make up the overall market have to be ours and we have to own them and we have to the so what you're doing is a huge positive for the entire ecosystem.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that, by the way, what you're doing is happening globally in in villages, in circular economies, in El Salvador, and a number of places in El Salvador, Africa, in Indonesia, in Thailand.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've been to a whole bunch of these communities where where most purchasing is in Bitcoin.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what you see is you're seeing the emergence and then these communities, uh the emergence of these really strong family kind of bound communities and working on an honest framework and their lives getting better and better and better.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's now connecting to different communities and other and and opportunities.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And more and more people are accepting this around the world.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall world.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're in in the US or in California and you go down to Barber, it still doesn't seem like you can do this every day.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know this.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like it's it uh it's so small, but it's growing really fast, just off of a very tiny base.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this for sure because we're investing in the ecosystem through EgoDeaf, and we see some of the companies and the transaction volumes that they're they're doing, in some cases private transactions that you can't monitor.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so that you you we can't even see, we can't see the individual transactions, but we can see the volume growing across the different companies.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we know we know that it's growing really quickly, despite what the market wants to tell you.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then going back to companies too, that you mentioned, you know, even with Sailor, um, I recently saw a podcast where you were on there, and I know that you disagree with some of the things that he's doing with Bitcoin, you know, with these financial instruments, these vehicles.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you share it too that you're you're like, yeah, we you know, we spent hours like disagreeing on this.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what did that look like?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: What would what what are you telling him?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that he's just like not understanding, or what is he saying to you that you're like not understanding?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So and and that's and and um and and so he he just has a different paradigm of what Bitcoin is.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when Saylor entered the scene, uh he sent me a note when he entered the scene and said, Thank you, you've been a huge part of my learning curve.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: We we became close over the over the time, but we disagree on a fundamental uh issue.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: He I think he was understanding Bitcoin.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: He used to say, You never take my Bitcoin, I'll get on a plane with 12 words in my head, nobody can take it, it's not government control.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's digital credit.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: What does digital credit mean?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like where does the where does the interest rate come from?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's still in that old system.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's still in the old system, it has to be.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and and if you offered somebody an interest rate, call it eleven and a half percent, instead of something that offered zero interest rate, like Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is repricing everything coming down, many people would choose the eleven and a half percent.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where does it come from?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: It comes from a system debasing your currency, and it comes from centralizing that Bitcoin into the into that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you you don't have to you don't own Bitcoin, you're not in the is the system we're talking about.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes you're not contributing to Bitcoin as money, you're in the other system measuring price go up.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, now this episode is brought to you by Microsieve.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: MicroC engraves your entire Bitcoin seed phrase onto fireproof, waterproof, steel, or titanium.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Small enough to fit in your palm, strong enough to last a lifetime.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's durable, easy to hide, and built for secure storage.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: If your seed phrase is still on paper, it's time to upgrade and take self-custody to the next level.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because not your keys, not your coins.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: Go to microsc.io and use code Luna, L-U-N-A, for a discount, or check the link in the description below.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I understand why people would do that.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're living with expenses that are going up in those fiat terms and they're spending in those fiat terms, those expenses, and they're trying to they're trying to survive.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you offered them that, many people would take that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Most people would take that without knowing that they're still in the system, contributing to the system that centralizing their Bitcoin, and they don't actually own Bitcoin.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: They own a derivative claim on Bitcoin.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: They'll go away at some point.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you when, but it won't, uh it'll go away and they'll be liquidated and they they'll think they have Bitcoin.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: It almost pulls Bitcoin back a little bit from adoption, it feels like, because now people are pivoting into just owning the, you know, being part of the system, owning Bitcoin directly.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're being part of this Bitcoin that's tied to the old system.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it it's just very interesting to see.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but if you go sorry, and uh Anthony, if you go into that, it uh it has to go through these things, right?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so so so Sailor's just capitalizing on human nature and what people will do.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's trying to create a uh potentially if he gets away with it, MicroStrategy and the Bitcoin holdings, he he'll be worth more than Apple.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: If he got if it he he could get liquidated along the way.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people could do well along the way, and that it might be their first taste of Bitcoin, it might be the first understanding of Bitcoin before they uh go deeper.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, and this is why it just has to look like this.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's human nature is kind of motivated by greed and fear.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and and if somebody offers you something that looks better than something else, you won't do you likely won't do the work to understand is it truly better?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it aligned with who what I want?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you probably do that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you and and you have to take the consequences of that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought about it like that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: I never like it has to go through this progression.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is naturally gonna happen.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it and and it makes a lot of sense because Bitcoin is such a great idea that it's gonna be attacked like to be and the forks and the soft forks and digital credit.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting that you say that, Jeff, because I've never thought like it, this is probably all natural.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if we really want to, we can even fast forward, and there's probably gonna be things in the future that are gonna try to attack.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's gonna that's gonna happen over and over and over again.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you probably heard me recently on different podcasts um ask this question, and it's a very serious question for me because I I observe other people inside a system, creating the world that is just a direct reflection of who they are inside, and they're grabbing onto these things like it's the most important thing, and it is for them and their their life.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they're taking all of this energy into this corrupt system and dividing themselves from somebody else who's doing the same with a different idea inside the same box of that system.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right, yeah, and and and so much energy, so much of their time, so much of their life uh energy is going into this, and they can't see it in themselves.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So so in in my book, I wrote that quote by Frank out Watch your thoughts, they become your words, watch your words, they become your actions, watch your actions, they become your character, watch your character, it becomes your destiny.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I've really been thinking about where are my do my thoughts originate?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I observe other people inside those thoughts thinking it's their thoughts.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they're being they're programmed from a control system that's dividing them, but keeping them there.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't know.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: So so if that's true with all of these people that I'm watching and they're so sure, then how could I be sure?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so so I so I think about that that often in the the same thing that we're uh that that we're talking about right now, um in in is it true?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I just kind of some fundamental principles.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is it true that the a natural state of the free market is deflation?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is true categorically.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can um is it is it true that if if Bitcoin stayed decentralized and secure, and to stay decentralized and secure, it would also have to be money.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: It couldn't just it couldn't stay decentralized and secure if it was just an asset underneath broken money.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: It would have to become money.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if it stayed decentralized and secure, would it be pricing number one, what I just said?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Would it be pricing the first free market that ever existed?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: It would be for sure, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: It would be imposing a new discipline for society and and um for sure.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that just with those two simple questions, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Those two simple true statements that you can you can interrogate and see for sure, then you can decide where do you want to put your time.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the only thing you would have to worry about is does it stay decentralized and secure?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing, nothing else.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, all of the other nonsense, all of it would fall down.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: You would spend no time thinking about all the crazy nonsense that's happening in the other uh other system.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: You just spend your time here under uh uh uh only there.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So in the most kindly and modest way, Jeff, you basically said that Jeff Booth is right and everyone is wrong.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I so so but it's again time will tell.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I know for sure I'm right uh about those two things.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and and I would I would debate anybody on those two things.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would pick a per person if somebody wants to to fight on those two things, what they'll do is they'll change the debate and they'll say, we've never lived in that type of world before, so we can't.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't b essentially they'll say, I don't believe people will.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's not what I'm saying.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying if it stayed decentralized and secure, it's imposing that.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't care what you believe.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: But those two those two statements are right.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I would um for sure.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: You are right.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: You are right.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: No, that's awesome.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_04: I I feel like I'm learning so much even in this conversation about, you know, just the systems that we live in.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've always felt like that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_04: And like you said, there's so many other aspects of the system that we currently live in, like the fear, the the chaos that it almost feels like at all times.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then you talk so much about exiting, you know, that system.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it obviously is gonna have to stem from your own growth and your own um, you know, experiences and such.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we've navigated some conversations because I'm kind of like the one that's like not now, but you know, I had one foot in, one foot out kind of thing.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm, you know, I'm bringing my ideas to Anthony and going, hey, like, so we just hold this thing forever.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that was the initial like, you know, mindset of Bitcoin, right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, well, we have to live, you know, we have to we we live in a world where we have, you know, we have three kids, we need we have the expenses, we have all these things.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: And Anthony was like, yeah, but we'll be fine.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: We're just gonna hold on for dear life.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: And and I'm like, what is going on in here?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that's why it was even harder for me to even understand it, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I love that now it's um a shift in mindset of being able to use this currency.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's really important because now that we're able to, you know, there's so many things that have been created to make it so easy um to to transfer money and go even going into that third world country mindset.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: No wonder they're growing and having, you know, this these wonderful communities.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because I when initially when he told me that, I go, poor people don't have to be poor anymore.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like exactly.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, this is the coolest thing ever.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what a blessing that this could be for somebody if they've just got out of their own way and like, you know, cleared the glass on their lenses and was like, oh my gosh, I am I can change the trajectory of my life right now, you know?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: I and I just I found that so uh amazing and hopeful, you know, whereas in this in this system we're fearful or try to get ahead of people.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes we're just really greedy and evil and all of those things.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then when you come over here to the Bitcoin side, I like to say, and just you can see all of the transitions that can happen for so many people, positive things.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: And that was one of the most eye-opening things that I was like, wow, and this money grows, and they won't have to be poor forever, and they can start using this money and they will feel like they're getting ahead when all they had in the first place with the broken money system was nothing.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_04: They had nothing.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're Daniel, just as you're talking, and and and your empathy and going through that and your uh and and your humility and you're going through your own journey, you uh you you probably can't realize right now how many people that's gonna touch because everybody feels the same way, right?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I felt the same way as like it's an investigation and a curiosity to get you to the other side.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and and if somebody's yelling at you, that doesn't feel like very very if somebody's telling you how wrong you are your whole life, you don't want to listen.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: But but a lot of times when you when the light bulb goes on because it's so stark, it doesn't make those people bad.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to save you.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it but they're they're trying, but but but it's sound and and then inside that too, there's a whole bunch of people that are trying to scam you.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: In the in crypto and all the nonsense that's ha happening.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the collision of these systems moving and moving in different ways, and who do I trust and what does this look like?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um guides are really important, guides that have proof of work have done the same thing uh themselves and and aren't afraid to admit where they were wrong along the way because we're everybody in the world's going through the same transition.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: But what you just described is um I've had some moments through this journey that have just touched me so deeply.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: This was a Swan Bitcoin conference uh four years ago.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody came to uh to me with uh a guy with his wife and baby and and and and said, This is because of you.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you'd like you're just taken, you're just thrown back.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I was so hating the world I lived in.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was just everything was bad.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I felt no way out.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: I felt trapped and everything else.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to find somebody, didn't want to have kids into this world and everything else, and you gave me hope.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so so those types of things, right?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: We touch each other.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: That that kid's now probably four years old, five years, uh five years old, and and and that person it it'd be just because they started saving coffee money is in a totally different spot.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the so uh and those stories travel, right?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So same thing you're saying.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's such an impactful thing and being able to be able to um just show that there's another side of uh a hopeful side, and I think that's just it's something that we've always wanted to genuinely when we started this podcast too, was just to be uh real and know that we don't know any everything and maybe anything speakers, so not that we have people like Jeff who come on here and tell us what we should be, you know, doing.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: No, just kidding.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: But um no, it it's very impactful.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've we've had conversations and I'm I mean I can only imagine the astronomical conversations you've had, but we've had some really great people that we've been able to talk to.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: And um sometimes I'm like, I can't believe you're alive, you know?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like I can't believe you've actually like survived this world because of what you've navigated so early on.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: And because of Bitcoin, you are now here and changing the whole directory of your life.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_04: And it's the coolest thing.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the the most amazing thing to So have you seen, I was uh I and I've been in Bitcoin for a long time.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen uh I was somebody shared it to me after one of my podcasts recently, recently.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: But uh um so on the right hand side, it's what Bitcoin is, and then on the on the left hand or I don't know on your side, and and what you see.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you can't.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: What is it?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Can you see that?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: And then what you see on the way.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what you see.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah and and and it's just it that's the that's the journey of Bitcoin.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you see it through a fractal of how you see it.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the first curiosity might be might be prices going up, or or the natural state of the free market is deflation, what's going on.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the curiosity opens up more curiosity and you start to see something that's emergent that's very different than what you saw in the in in the beginning.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's a powerful way.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And but but how many people grab onto the one thing they see in it?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it became that's everything to them.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so good.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: That was that was me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I didn't I didn't really understand the lingo and all of that for a while.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm still feel like I'm still learning a lot of that, but um just the impact that it's had on communities and people specifically.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's been awesome.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: I and I'm like, well, and even when he was, you know, getting more into it, I'm like, well, he's working out, he's taking care of himself, he's reading books.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why wouldn't I see what my husband's doing and understanding more about what he, you know, because it's a positive thing.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I would want, I it's not not going out drinking, he's not going out, you know, doing all these things.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like everything is such a positive thing.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_04: Why wouldn't I also, you know, just try to understand a little bit more about what's going on?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: And we should.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: We're we're married, so we should probably know what financially decisions that we're making together.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love it.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, I'm putting all of our money in here.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about it.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's in a safe spot, it's in cyberspace.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't even worry about it.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have keys to it, dude.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it and again, just talking about that, right?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: And just talking about um, you know, putting stuff in cold stores, like that's all like steps in people's journey that they need to get to.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it it it's just different, it's a different world.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, um, you know, I love what where it's heading and I Feel a lot more confident too, like hearing you too, Jeff, like, hey, this is all natural.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that's going on with Bitcoin, this is all natural.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it it's not gonna be this smooth sailing ride up where, like, hey, everyone's just gonna slowly fall in place and disagree with everything that Bitcoin's doing.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: There are gonna be obstacles to uh overcome in this Bitcoin journey.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, and so let's let's use a very real example that is I would say is quite likely going to go uh going to happen.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's my but most probable case.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the US dollar system is insolvent.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we need a neutral reserve currency.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um but because of the powers B and the kind of political apparatus and everything else, that's going to try to be captured by the US dollar system through stable coins, through everything else.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they're going to try to essentially reserve their currency.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: They changed it from gold to uh to to petrodollar system and a kind of a war machine to protect the oil rights.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that system's breaking down.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And China's going to gold, other countries are starting to trade back to gold.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and big and and the US needs to go to Bitcoin.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so and and so likely and so what happened in oil in the 70s is oil wasn't a big enough market to accommodate a repricing event.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the the giant drive of oil prices exploding in the 70s and the inflation and everything else that that caused was actually a drive to make it the reserve.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it backed the dollar.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and in US and if you weren't on the US dollar oil system, if you wanted to sell to somebody else, you were either invaded, right?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or or shut off from the economic system of the world.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that's the way it works.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: That same thing is likely to happen on Bitcoin.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is, and Bitcoin isn't big enough right now to do that, right?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: To essentially reprice the US dollar, get rid of the yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that means massive inflation for anybody holding US dollars, massive inflation developing a currency, and Bitcoin going up in those terms a lot.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometime in the next call it three, five years.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um it could happen anytime, but it could but that that has to that that is very likely to happen.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the people there will now trade that Bitcoin back to to Fiat and just be start over again from fiat in the same same movie'll play over.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so that could be a Bitcoin at a million dollars, two million dollars, three million, five million, a hundred ten, um, uh two hundred thousand, like pick a number, but it has to go up a lot.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a whole bunch of people in the journey right now that are going to feel rich and they did everything and told you so, and ever and they'll go get back, but they'll be right back to the other system.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna play out again and again and again.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: So but in those step changes, it's going to then it could go sideways for a long time.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so why I say this is gonna be chaotic.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a likely event here.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but for Bitcoin to really break free to be what I'm talking about, which I believe it's imposing, we have to use it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be money.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so so some very small people or percentage of people are going to do that.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're leading the way.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: The other people are gonna get rich, go back to the system, get then get devalued again.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this but it's going to happen, right?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and uh and and more and more people are going to start to realize this and move more of their time over over time.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: That same system is gonna come under attack.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna come under attack.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it needs to you you need to have privacy in it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: For anybody watching, for you guys, I think look at Fedament, look at FEDI, set up your own federation, it it becomes a communication platform and private money and and and and the likes.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: We could go deeper on that if you wanted at some point.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: But but but it can't just be if it was an open network and only a few people transacting in it, then through through tax structure, through, through regulatory capture, those people would be captured.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have this surveillance state with everybody in the survey is m strengthening the surveillance state that was trying to attack you for using Bitcoin.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so so so so Bitcoin is emerging as i uh it like like the internet did in a protocol stack, and and more and more, not features, but more and more and more and more pieces of the protocol stack, and privacy is one of the pieces of the protocol stack that you don't need another coin for.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's emerging on top of Bitcoin.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, I'm I mean, it there's so much to unpack in my brain right now as you were speaking.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, because I'm I I think it's so important that we start, you know, finding ways.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I was thinking too a lot of times when we were he was talking about Bitcoin, it was kind of this so what question, like, okay, so we're doing this, like what what is that gonna what fruit is that gonna bring, or what is that gonna do?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_04: Because I I feel like I feel like we are very intentional people when we do something, we want to know what's gonna come out of it.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: And not that we'll always know, but what you're you know, planning for.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so for me, when he was talking about Bitcoin, it was always a question of like, okay, so what?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so are we gonna use this?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_04: Are we just gonna keep this into the abyss for the rest of our lives?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what does this look like?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think a lot of people ask those questions.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think a lot of people, and that's what you're saying, it's gonna be chaotic because they're gonna, you know, get, you know, invest or they're thinking of it as a maybe a stock or you know, something like that where they've been told their whole life of what that system looks like, right?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: Or like it seems more familiar.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then yeah, so you your piece of that my wife went through the same thing.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly the same journey.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what was well, if we're never gonna sell this, right?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Then what is it?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: What about your other money or your other house or uh everything else?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: What is the so what?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because each of that so what is about you.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you just continue to operate in honest money, then then you raise your kids in operating in honest money.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: You'll uh you're and and they'll participate in in something that's multi-generational wealth by doing something that was really good for them and good for the world.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: That seems like a pretty big so what.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right the the impact the impact of what your individual actions from modeling who you are, right?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not by saying one thing and doing another, by just model and modeling who you are.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: They'll grow up in that.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty big so uh pretty big so what.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I you know I wrote I wrote the book because my kids were a little older than your kids are are now, but I wrote the um the book because of that.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I looked I looked out this technology that was gonna cut across us in a way that people couldn't even imagine how fast that was gonna happen.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that should drive be driving more wealth and abundance.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I looked out and I realized it's gonna drive more surveillance, more control system, and what the actions of people would do within it.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I wrote my book.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was so you watch it playing out, you watch it playing out exactly as I wrote.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you just go, right, that uh, but but now there's an escape.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: You have a choice.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was earlier this year, you're on on a podcast, and it just struck me so like it just hit me in my face, Jeff.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, people are complaining all the time about this, that, whatever it may be.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what they don't do?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: They don't just go and they look in the mirror and then just go and exit the system.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like just go, you just look in the mirror and you can actually do something directly and to pivot to change your future, the projection of where you want to go, where you want to spend your money, where you want to do.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what is he talking about?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you telling me to go look in the mirror?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like I can just change this, but like, but the more and more I listen to you, the more and more it makes sense.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I I um the journey is people have to go on that journey by themselves.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh they have to go on that journey down the rabbit hole and just figure it out, whatever it is.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, so I just want to say thank you so much because I uh I looked in the mirror and I was like, oh, okay, cool.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I need to still perfect client, you know.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Love that, Anthony.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then real quick too, I just want to touch on this.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jeff, is uh I know with the uh the Clarity Act uh just right now did not get passed and interest rates would not get lowered.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why do so many people, in my opinion, I just want to hear your take on this, like rely so much on these things still, especially Bitcoiners too, which kind of is shocking to me sometimes.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do they just rely again the old system?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's this old system.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is it it is how you measure everything.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: You measure everything from a broken ruler.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: That means all institutions are on top of that.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: You you you you measure everything from theft.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and all of the media.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: But but it is actually theft.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is nobody asks you your dollar in the last in the last four or five years has lost 40% of its value, 35% of its value.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can go and look at food price, you can look at beef prices, you could look at gas prices, you could look at anything relative to that, and you know for sure what I'm saying is that who asked you if that was okay?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did you vote on it?
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: So so so if you had savings, if you had held your money in cash, so y you would have lost 40% of money.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you worked your entire life, put it in the bank, somebody just picked your pocket.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and no wonder people are getting confused, right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the entire inf infrastructure that is on is on top of that, there isn't a system within that system that doesn't look like that.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Private equity.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: So people trying to escape the system.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Private equity has kind of a five-year hold and they need to make three to four times the other money.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what happens?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: They buy a c they buy a company, and by a company producing really good food, right?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: High cost ingredients that is creating a brand.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: They take a they take that company, and there's only two ways to take the cost out or merge it with somebody else and take the take the cost out.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: People and and and products.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the and and the food becomes shitty food, but you still think it's really good food.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have no idea what happened under the hood.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: Then they sell it, they trade it to somebody else who trades it to somebody else, and it keeps on happening.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Your dentist, if it's owned by private equity, the the metrics you get paid more for root canals and more uh more things.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, so you create uh bad outcomes for society by doing the by these things because the money is the problem and it's trading.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, all of the people investing in private equity, are they bad people?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to protect their money in something that they're trying to make more money by because their money is losing money if they leave it in the bank.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they're trying to protect their money, so they put it into these, these, the, the, these things.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because the system looks like that, that contribute to society's downfall, and and and they don't know that they're doing it.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: But where else do you do it?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where else so all of the systems inside that thing that are producing these bad outcomes, that then we're complaining again about the sent symptoms.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: The root cause is way over here, and we can't see we're part of the root cause.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so people naturally they're finding the best vehicle that like literally drains something really well that's real that's high quality or really good.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Which is if you think about it, if you take if you zoom out, that's crazy.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and and then and then you think it's somebody else, right?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so all of these things are because you've been programmed into a system that looks like that.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I you you've heard me say this before, but but why do we need assets?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: We need assets because why why do we think in an asset?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why do people call Bitcoin an asset?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: We think of assets because we can't store our money in money.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: There is no reason for an asset if you could store your money in money.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the and the perfect money is the perfect asset.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's what I mean.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because it prices everything else.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the so the reason you need an asset is screaming at you that the money system is broken.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's telling you.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's screaming at you.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then what people are doing, it's like it it is trying to shake you.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: You need these assets, you need to protect your money from being stolen because the system you live in is stealing your money.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then people are talking about that.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: I need to buy a house, I need to more debt to buy a house, I need, I need to be in private equity funds, I need to be in all of these assets.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: For the very reason because I can't store my money in money.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and people think that's normal.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: What would the media landscape look like?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: What would the companies look like inside a system that acted like that was a rational choice?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you can see you you can see why I've just tuned it all out.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because it has to look like it has to look like all of the nonsense that you see every day.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and the way you describe it, the way you describe and the way you talk about this new system, Jeff, like it's like like heavenly, right?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's really nice.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a almost like a little like perfect like world of um, you know, of clarity.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to be careful there because I it it I don't mean it that way.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: And in in in in my in my book, I actually wrote, I don't believe in utopia or or or uh or dystopia.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: But in the first part of the book, the reason I said said that is it could easily be be looked at as what I'm talking about is utopia.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it and the outcomes are far better than the outcomes here.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: But but but I believe the human mind without problems, problems are the things we overcome.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the and what ends up happening is the thing that's scarce gets attacked by all sorts of creative minds to be able to create value.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, will people still cheat?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, people will still cheat.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at the cold card incidents or or make radical mistakes, it'll hurt people.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: But because of those incidents, they're not papered over to and and and driven to somebody else.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's not your fault.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna l everybody else is gonna lose.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like in 2008.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: All of the same people are still in power.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: All of the same banking, same, and and after after crushing, nobody, it wasn't a free market.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: You just bailed everybody out, nobody went to jail.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and they got rich on the back of uh on the back of society, and they're still in power power from that same thing.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm talking about in the free market is if you do something like that, you fail quickly.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and other people take your place.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: And other people so so still problems, but we overcome the problems faster.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a shining light on the problems.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the margin opportunity, the the scarcity, if you're making more margin, becomes the attack vector for other people to drive better ideas for society.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: There can't be a monopoly.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: There can't be there, there'll still be people that'll cheat.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's still be people, but but they'll be swarmed out by by other actors producing value for you.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to produce value too.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have to that's that's what I mean.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what it'll look like for, and it'll just get better and better and better as as as that's imposing a new discipline for the world that we don't know is imposing.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that and and that imposing will is like we'll force people to be creative.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: It'll force people.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: But but by the way, you're doing this now, and I'm doing this.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: So part of the reflection of my life comes from being really clear with who I am, right?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and that impacting a whole bunch of other people positively who who then want to do more with me inside uh inside this new system.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everything that I'm talking about is actually a reflection of what I'm doing too.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: What you're doing is the same thing.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're just you're we're so early in doing this, operating on a different principle, operating on on honest rails, that it feels abnormal for a lot of other people.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're doing is and through time, if you keep doing it, some people just like you moved, are gonna start moving and they're gonna and you're going to touch them.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, you're going to touch the impact their lives positively and do really well in the free market by impacting other people positively.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's what we're created to do.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like that's what was our intention.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like, I mean, that's my belief system, but yeah, we're if we're not creating value, if we're not, you know, doing things and it goes back, what is your purpose?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like what you have to go back to your value system, what you feel you want to bring to this world.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: And that's something that, you know, as a as even as a parent, you even think about what how you can impact your kids and how they're going to create value in the world.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so we've always talked about that too, of like more of a to get them out of that system.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_04: How can we do that?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: And it's by allowing their brains to think differently about money, about value creation, about you know, all of those things, um, instead of just, you know, you know, go to work and go home and get a sick, you know, and things like that, which can it can help and it can create you to go to a different system.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_04: But anyways, I just this is I have my brain is like all over the place right now.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna be watching, rewatching this and thinking about it over and over again.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's incredible.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm definitely gonna do that.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I also like uh I'm just so grateful and thankful, Jeff.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for uh coming on here.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we just appreciate you so much.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm glad that like I wore my thinking cap today and I stood you know step by step with you as much as I can.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I I love the way you think, I love the way you share your ideas, they're so big, right?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um it just feels really good because when someone has a similar mindset as you and they even think bigger.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I really appreciate um everything that you do for the community um and hopping on this podcast.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the questions we always like to end with, Jeff, is so if somebody's watching this podcast, they're brand new into Bitcoin space, what advice would you give them?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um find guides that are aligned with where you are now.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say, and not just aligned with the kind of that are pushing you, but are consistent.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things you'll find in Bitcoin is you'll find flavors of the day and people trying to extract from you too.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll find, and you know this already, Anthony, but proof of work.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: You could follow the proof of work of some people.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: They've been saying they've been consistently, and now you can ask, were they right?
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did they were they trying to were they trying to sell me something, or were they trying to give me something?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: And just look over and over.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you could look back to their work five, seven, eight years ago and see the same same thing.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: And w just pick a couple spots in their journey and go and look back at their uh at their journey and and and ask yourself, i is is that journey the same?
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or if they if they said one thing, did they correct it and say I was wrong?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you'll s and and then you'll say because then all of the hucksters and the nonsense and everything else, you'll just filter them out and you'll see the people that you want to to to understand for a long journey, and then you'll then then from those people find other people that they're following, and I think you'll develop a community that's aligned around where you want to go.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: Go down the rabbit hole and finding people who are consistent with what they're doing, and then and then and then me use that as a measuring stick, whether you agree with them or not.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect, Jeff Booth, perfect.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: Also, to everyone listening to whatever you hear on here, please don't trust, go verify for yourself, go do your own research.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Jeff Booth has amazing ideas, but still, hey, still go do your own research.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: Don't trust, go verify.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh Jeff, also, uh, where can people connect with you?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing is go to my website, uh Jeffreybooth.com, because from from there, if I'm on any social media, it'll be listed there.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you're if you find me on social media that isn't listed there, it's not me.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: I will never ask you for money.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: So just so so just for anyone of your listeners, just there's so many scammers out there pretending to be me or pretending to do, and and that's I suspect is going to get worse with AI.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, so look at my website first, and you can send me a note on the website too if you want to.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why all my messages to you on uh Twitter it's going to go black hole, then they were.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: They were.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good, Job.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, thank you so much, Doug.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate it so much.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks everybody for listening on to the moon with the luminous podcast.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh yeah, we'll see you all on the moon.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: Peace.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: You made it this far, so you might as well hit that subscribe button.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: You won't want to miss the conversations we got coming next.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for watching, and we'll see you on the moon.