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Paul Mallinder : His Story · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Approache Production.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand I'm your host,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Adam Shann. Today we're stepping into one of the most
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: controversial interviews I've ever conducted. In nineteen eighty five, Melbourne
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: woman k Nesbit was shot in the face and left
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: with life changing injuries that required more than fifty surgeries.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: She identified the shooter as Paul Terence Mallander, the boyfriend
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: of her housemate. Maleander was convicted of the shooting, but
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: has always maintained that he was innocent. He approached me
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: recently asking for the chance to tell his story publicly
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: and to explain why he believes the justice system got
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: it wrong. This interview is not an endorsement of his claim.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: My job is to test his account, challenge the inconsistencies,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and examine whether his argument was stands scrutiny. You'll hear
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Paul Mallender's version of events and you can decide whether
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: you believe it or not. He's not seeking to prove
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: his innocence in court. He's done his time and lives
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: with a notoriety that comes with being found guilty of
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: such a crime. So let's begin. So, Paul, Welcome to
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Real crime good to make it. I appreciate you taking
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: some time. I'm not going to agree with everything you say,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: but it's your right to say it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that's what it's all about.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: That's what we're doing here today.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Like eleventh of September nine and eighty five, a lot
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: of people's lives changed.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: He certainly did. Yeah, I certainly did.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and forever.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Cay Nesbit is still living with the consequences of that day.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So am I. So are you and my family?
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: So, And you understand that there's nothing that can be
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: done in the courts now about.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Well, it isn't cost too much money. I've got time
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: At the end of the day, I came through you
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: because you're an educated person. You're not just one of
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: these normal fly by night podcasters. You know, you're you.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Know, you're a journalist. That's what it's about.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: Two sides to everything that's right at the end of
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  Speaker 4: the day, when when there's people are only showing one side,
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: but trial by Murdier, you know what I mean? And
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: thirty nine years ago has gone by, Yeah, I mean.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: How much have you felt the consequences of being fowed
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: from the.
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  Speaker 4: Day one, from day one from day one, punching on
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: with Special Operations and the coppenters the club. I was
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: there for a drink, having a party. All of a
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: sudden the doors are kicked down. The Special Operations is
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: running going through rooms guns. I didn't know who they were,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: so I'm I'm punching on with trying to get the
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: guns off. Of course, they eventually get me up sub due.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: Then I'm handed over to the detectives and then Whish back
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: to told me that I've shut somebody and they're going
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: to be charged.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: What you know, I mean you were interviewed and you
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and you're quite cooperative. You're answering their questions.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: I go for answer the questions that questions that you
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: That is a verbal statement. There was no cassette copy
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: of it, as you say in that that that page
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: I showed you the first day where you may there's
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: nothing on it and the ft that page if.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: You the record of a passed the record quickly view.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but you're a good journalist, Mary, You don't you
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: know what you're about. Mate, You've done the books, You're done,
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: you know, And this is the first time in thirty
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: nine years, mate, I've sat down to someone who discussed
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: it and and on discussing it, because there's there's a
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: lot of things that no one got to know, what
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: happened in the gathering gathering of the evidence of the evidence,
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: and what'sposed to be done professionally properly with that gathering
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: of the evidence.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: You know. Okay, so that's your record of interview, and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you're saying you didn't.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
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  Speaker 4: I'll show the document and this is before after I'm
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: held or as each week texts on their arm.
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  Speaker 2: Although it's I mean, in this you are being asked
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: where you were at the time of this incident took place,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and you're you're giving pretty pretty consistent answers about people
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: you were with and what you were doing that night.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: And that's what I was talking about when talking of
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: a record of interview. I'm just trying to say, you
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: didn't say any of this.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: And it's supposed to be a cassette player taking this right.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: There was never any cassette tape produced.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: It wasn't recorded.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: It's all verbal or verbal.
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  Speaker 2: But I mean, this doesn't incriminate You's a idea, Yeah,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: it doesn't incriminate.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: You, Paul. That's nothing.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: It's Actually, it's actually giving you an alibi.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: So if I was going to verbal you, I wouldn't to.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: A certainly great, I don't talk like that, mate.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's they make an allegation that the reason why
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: I allegedly shot some person because you're when I get
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: called a junkie, that I'm going to rush around and
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  Speaker 4: shoot you. Such a ridiculous the most starts, such a
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  Speaker 4: ridiculous that I get it.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: That's the first thing.
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  Speaker 4: All that, as it says, there is no other forensic
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: evidence such as fingerprints or ballistic smell on the sign,
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  Speaker 4: a record of an interview admitting nothing, and that's.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: A bit to nothing.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's straight from the start.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you gave him an interview. Ye, you say it
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: wasn't recorded faithfully, not at all. But at the same time,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: you didn't make any missions either.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: No, there's nothing, there's nothing was at this place. What
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: else can I say? Yeah? Yeah, I knew I met her.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Three times because a young girl there, I'd known, you know,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, and I was having sex relationships and that's
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: all it was, you know.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let's take a couple of steps back.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're a couple of steps.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Back, you know, you're in a relationship with Nikki Tanetta.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Who was she just a young girl?
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: How did you meet her at a hotel as you
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: do twenty three twenty when you're young, buck. It's a
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: good looking sort, very good looking sort, end of the day. Yeah,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: I mean she she keeps she moved in there with
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: these adult women. I didn't realize that she was at escort,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean and all that sort of stuff,
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, which I didn't. I'd met her three times,
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, and she was yeah, and she was rude.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: But let's let's talk about let's talk about Nikki. First day.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: So you're in a relationship with Niki. How long were
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: you seeing before? For a year and a half, sixteen months?
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I believe, yeah, I'm right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: And was the relationship she was just pardon the French,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: she was just fuck.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Nothing more, nothing less.
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  Speaker 3: For sixteen months. It sounds like you're a bit more,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: bit more.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: She's a good looking I'm a good looking buck yourself,
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: so you know, I'm floody fish in So you may
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: not want.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: To, ye, So you want to tax you want attached
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: at all?
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Were you seeing other people as well? Yeah?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I'm good looking, Blake. Yeah, well what not?
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, fair enough, fair enough.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: That's right.
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  Speaker 4: I've never married. I'm a bachelor right now, living a
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: life and Larry you know what I mean.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, very good.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I've done what I want when I want.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So the allegation Paul was that Nicky wanted to break
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: it off with you and you didn't want to take no.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: For an Well, that's just that's just that's a ridiculous statement.
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  Speaker 4: Of course, that's going to be throwing up in that
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  Speaker 4: sort of scenario where they're going to they're trying to
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: paint that sort of scenario in it because of what
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  Speaker 4: can you say at the end of the day, Yeah,
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: because when there's crashed and involved, they've got to move
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: to that thing. So we'll pay that part or don't
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: take it away from.
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  Speaker 3: The real story. Yeah, real story as you see it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So obviously the allegation that went through the court in
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: your proceeding was that Nikki didn't want to talk to
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  Speaker 2: you and that she sent k to the door with
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  Speaker 2: a note.
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  Speaker 3: So all of it.
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  Speaker 4: What we're saying now is this all right, It's just
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  Speaker 4: it's just like she's got a record for perjury.
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  Speaker 1: She's a liar.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I made all the statements all but all were
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: written by the copper himself, Greg Roberts, who's just an
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  Speaker 4: absolute cruft scumbag. And he's no longer a copper. I
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: don't care if he's still alive not alive. I love
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: to bump into it. Yeah, there'd be ramifications, beloved me mate,
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  Speaker 4: not with any weapons. Make my weapons be my hands
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: and my feet.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we don't want to go there.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I realized I don't want to.
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  Speaker 3: We don't want to. We don't want to start new
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  Speaker 3: wars overall.
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  Speaker 4: What doesn't sudden you when the war started when he
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  Speaker 4: framed me thirty nine years ago.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I down.
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  Speaker 4: So I'm saying, say, there is a war gun, and
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: I was thinking, you can you can win the battle, mate,
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: but you won't win the war.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying there, my friend.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: I'm still standing, and I'm still I'm sixty five in December,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: and I'm still fine. You, I mean, and they when
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: most people are burnt there and whatever, but continue ye enough.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: If I sound a bit rude, button in because I'm pissed.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Life moves on.
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  Speaker 4: Lucky that my chips are openly balanced and whatever like that.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: But I'm more pissed for my mother and father. You know,
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: I made my brothers, I mean, because they've had to
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: wear it. Don't beget I'm not saying housing commissions come bag.
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  Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I'm a public school boy.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I was a track and field champion.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: My first Australian record I was nine years old, you
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: know I made I give it away twenty but we're
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: getting I was a carry grammar, a champion runner there,
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: which is that the aps made at Xavier Harleybary, et cetera,
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: et cetera. My father was a school teacher, primary school mate.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: She was a reception of that at doctor Surgery's and
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: at a hospital. I was born in Marrabar. I lived
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: outside fish Creek. Then we moved into Terra which ted
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: Drew and the Warrigal and we moved to Melbourne when
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: I was about nine years old.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and parents stood by you through all.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: This fantastic, fantastic, but it broke my heart, you know,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, because it's broke my heart. We've taken on
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: a government at a correct police force.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you don't.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Forget we've had you know, they were hoping the person
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: that shot at You're supposed to die because it's dead
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: and it was a miracle, you know, miracle experiment.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Miracle you have fifty plus operations, a miracle money.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: We're getting that later on about certain things there with
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: corrupt and involved with that too.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: You well, let's just deal with that because you became
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: aware of the injuries that Kay had suffered.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Well later when I was told about it, Yeah, obviously,
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: how did you feel about that? Well, how did I
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: feel about it? Or obviously they're shocking injuries.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Mate.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: At the end of the day, I'm feeling about myself
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: because I'm in a bad spot here, mate, with bullshit.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I was the wrestler on d the Old Man's Birthday.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Is that right you have? Man?
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: So, and don't forget this is going to be before that.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: I could fight, yeah, mate, but I wasn't. I was
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: educated with you, and so I'm saying saying, you've got
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: the way you made, I'll punch on with you.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Whatever, that's the part of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: growing up.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: You don't have any criminals.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I've got team this.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: The morn is borrowing the big one when they framed
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: me for just various times punched on and all that ship.
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, I can't help that you
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: want to stick in those in my face, mate, or
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: you're trying to stand over me or do whatever.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I'm coming back.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: But you didn't have a serious criminal No, No, I was.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Never a balling, never picked on anybody. I was a
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: late bloomer.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: So you get going to Carey gram public school boy,
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: and I'm saying, blakes to it right, it's six foot two,
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: tavern in tatters, just getting out of trying at sixteen
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: years old, pinching cars and there I are, you know,
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: shorts and catching the train to Auburn station part and
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Parker's raid to carry mate you Yeah.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So tell me how do we go from carry grammar
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: in the background with your dad who's a school teacher,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: head master and so forth. So now hanging out with
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the coffin ship, that's what you were doing.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Well at that time, there wasn't many hotels around.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: Most of hotels closed at one o'clock, or you came
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: into the city like Richmond Club at three, or we
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: went to the shed and various ot of one. Unlike
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: later years when his one hundred dollars, ah blah blah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: open to all hours in the night. And I've been
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: matels and punching on which I can't help it if
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: I can fight, and I'm glad.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Sometimes when you can fight, you end up in a
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: lot of fights. Do you think you were maybe a
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: little bit with a bit of a hair trigger.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: Well the end, No, I'm not a hair trigger. I
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: can control I don't control my action even to this day. Yeah,
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: sticks and stones, I can have said, purple mate, even
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: law enforcement. I want to get smart, mate, and I
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: have a crack at and I want to you know what,
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: I'm hanging on my sticks and stones for faddy. You
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: don't like what I said, fuck off? And at my
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Sunday school teacher deckhead. Yeah, oh you want to play here,
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: I put your lockdown. I just go around the fucking side.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: They wouldn't do that with that, they wouldn't do it.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Grateful buddy mate.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so you find yourself associating with the outla.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: At that time, I was socialated because it's like a
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: drink there. You have nothing wrong with No, it was
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with it.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just saying. I'm just saying that obviously
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: you came from a private school background. I guess you
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: would have expected you to have stayed in that circle.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: And not really because not really, mate, because the end
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: of the day, wild Man wasn't a multi millionaire and
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: all that sort of shit and the click and all
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: that shit made. He gave me an education. I was there,
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: made on a sports scholarship because I was a gun runner.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: That's how I beat the system and I burn a champion.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Mate.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: You know, my first race was at Warrigor Football when
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: I was four and a half years old. As I said,
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: my first Australian record made was under ten little athletics.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: At sixteen years I was the fastest eight hundred meter
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: in Australia.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: I ran one fifty five fours a fifteen year on
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: Scotts College's grass track and today it is still achievement.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean things are parted.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Do you feel like your life hasn't gone the way
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: that well, it changed.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: It changed that night, It changed that night forever.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: What did you hope for your own life?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to that morning.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: I was about to fly at the Geraldton because I
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: just got a line through five ancing with my partners
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: to set up an oyster farm. What they did giving
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: their oyster leases, but our experimental was up to fording
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: Purpo various spots around the bay, and we had we
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: had Swan Bay which is a protector, a perfect spot
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: for growing oysters. And the particular oyster that is in
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: the Victorian waters is called Austria and the daisy, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: even to this day it's not growing. It's a Sydney
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: one on the tasty one and blah blah blah. Well
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: we had thirty THI and it was up to us
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: to recreate an industry, to see how long it's going
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: to take to you to grow the spat and that
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: size to how long ready to harvest, which is ading months.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: And I grew to the size of your fucking hand,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And I had thirty thousand
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: oysters down. But when I went to check on it,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: sitting around with a park ranger, this couple, an American
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: carple that worked for the Atomic Energy Department had the lease,
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: but they couldn't have someone there and I got at
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: the right time where they raven mony car.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: So you did list your occupation as fishermen when you
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: were in saw that.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Back before that, I was a sprintlall feeder doing the
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: fire protection, which was a great job. I worked at
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: laying and all that, and I saved up forty grand
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: to go to Sydney to u T see which underwater
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: training center in Canulla and get the basics and tivit
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: virtual work on the rigs and all that sort of stuff.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean as a as a commission diver.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, commercial diver de Congression Chinas, all that sort of stuff.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: And that led into the oysters after that, and yeah,
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: I started to go to Jelden says the hatter the
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: best hattery. You don't have the hatchy and you put
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: the spat. It's called spat baby. You also called spat
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: like a little nail. And of course there you get
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: tosands of them and then you put them in and
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: of course that they've fled off the plank them and
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: all that shit in the water, blah blah blah, and
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: they go.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It's on to take eighteen months to harvest.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: And all that future disappeared.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: With it went away.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: It's one that the particularly that morning at nine o'clock
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: punch and I was fed Becer Operations Yeah, life change,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: hover life change, and it did change change for Cagings
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: with to the chuck An injuries. But at the end
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: of the day, I did not shoot the person, you
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: know what I mean? And his documentations that can show
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: the load of gathering it all that was never shown
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: to anybody because the trial by Murdy because they're carrying
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: it up because ye're fair enough. But don't get mill
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: It was the first person to raise money for her,
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: not victims of crime. He was the first one understart
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: the money. Did he raise money for? Is that a victims? No,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: there's another one.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Former Chief commission Yeah, all right, I.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Got nothing nice to say about Victorian police forces, and.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: I don't doubt that. But I mean, let's let's deal
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: with the evidence though as well. Let me finish finished.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Like Kay was interviewed in the hospital.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And a detective got her to spell out who had
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: shot her, and she wrote on a piece of paper, Paul.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Know she did, She didn't know, she sucked up. Tell
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: what went on there.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: That's what was saying.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I know what was said. I'm going to clarify it.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Okay, mate, here she is three days four days later,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: You've had a half your fucking head blown off. That
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: wasn't buying me, you know, I mean okay, and the
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: croppers are wearing to be a hang on a minute.
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: We've got a person with a frameman and she's gonna die.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: He's gonna walk, you know something. Say so at the
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: end of the day, they've got that rat that not
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: the one who operated on another whatever his name is,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: fucking weeks tri his name is. And they've made up
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: to say right, you ask the questions and you move
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: your fingers yes.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Or fucking notes squeezing. They yeah, shit, no.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Right down, mate, you're half your head blown off, And
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: say four days later you wouldn't know w your.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Fucking Arthur or Martha Hunt.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: So you think that that was all fools?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Mate, You're got the injuries. Mate, you had half your
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: head blown off.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: I couldn't go to I couldn't go for bail for
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: four months ago because it was a catch twenty two.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: I was charge of attempted fucking murder. And because I
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: didn't know she's gonna live or die. I didn't get
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: barred anyway because I've got bar mate, or it would
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: have have a red rover. They cut a long story short.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: You know what, I mean, and that's what went on, mate,
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: because put yourself in this way. Mate, we're not talking
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: about a tone now, yeah, we're talking about half your
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: fucking jaw. Eye this out and imagine the medication, and
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: you're gonna tell me you can sit there and now
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: it's going on, mate, Mate, that's bullshit.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Well that's fine, but that was even who was given what.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I realized that I don't want to raise too many
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: we're not having. She has held to that over the years.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Because she's got a whole time. I don't care what
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: anybody says.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: I'll sit there of any medical person, you know what
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, and put it to mate, let me blow
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: off half your fucking head and see if you know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: if someone's standing there.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: And you can go yale fucking name, it's a jake.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: The coppers turned around and said to this deckhead doctor
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: and stad mate, we've got someone in here. He's going
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: to fucking walk if she fucking dies. She didn't die,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: and that was crectly fucking done with that fucking bit
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: of verbal there.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, you made your point. You made your point, and.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: It's attacking perfect point.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Mate.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: You're not suffering from a big toe injury. Let me.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you do have the list of injuries that
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: she suffered.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Injury and it's frightening, isn't it fucking frightening?
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Mate?
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's an maybe it's one that is frightening. Yeah,
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, no person to have to go to that, mate,
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: but that is frightening. But when people are crapped and
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: there's ulterior mode, he's behind it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Okay, So who do you think did it? If it
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: wasn't you, who did it?
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: The crop was involved with the mate because she was
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: working as an escort and they do protection. She had
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: her bikey boyfriend there who was a writer for the
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: out Tasts, not the outlaws, the out.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Casts, you know what I mean. Blah blah blah.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: Made and they try to make it squeaky fucking clean.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: She was heart mate, she's gonna get Nikki to be
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: out of work. And I said, I'm saying it's just
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: like she gets shot and someone said such and safe
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: at a door and she reckons.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: It's my voice. Well yeah, actually what she said, yes, yes,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: no idea know that that much.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: Of course she's going to say that, in which it's
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: just fucking thing to say, no camera shots know nothing,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, blah blah blah.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: You know it was her word against you. And where
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: were you actually that night though.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Coming to the climb? What are you doing?
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Who you're with?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Take the fucking drunken bidies?
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: If I was reading a bunch of prasts, happened to
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: be some fucking biking.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there enough. And Viking's word is as good as
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: anybody else as concerned. Why didn't that evidence helped get
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: you off? If you could have alibis that people would.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Have because they're looking at a desire to scumbag.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: You knows, I said, if I had the fucking standing
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: people there, if you a different ball game, you know
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: what I'm saying.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: It's like h stereotype.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Did they stand by you to a certain degree?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a certain degree, a certain well, to a certain degree.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I wasn't a member.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I've never ride a Harley Davison my fucking life.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: So you were the biking. You're in their clubhouse, drink
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: and pission, and you were asking for their assistance. When
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: you say to a sign existence, Well, what was the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: extent to which they went fuck off?
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: People still got that stigma where they I really want
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to talk.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: At the end of the day, unlocked up and Cassie,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: if I've got a fucking by mate, where a scumbag
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: bikes are there, Mate, you'll be doing a lot more.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: But you gave me unlocked. I'm new to this bullshit.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, so they didn't stand by you to a
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: certain degreat wasn't enough.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: That wasn't enough.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, as we get
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: onto the forensic stuff, I didn't know these fucking bits
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: to say, hang on, you know what I'm.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Saying, Well, that would have been the strongest evidence. If
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: you were in a different place and they stood by you,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: that would have been they stood That would have been
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: powerful evidence to exculpate you.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: No.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, and they did stand by me.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: But the end of the day, they're fucking bike's mate,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: They're not working that the fucking praise.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: So the fucking that's to this day, credibility was low.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, So run the prison. It doesn't matter what you're
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: I've only had thirty four fucking years.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Rather, okay, okay, let's let's let's talk about the other
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: evidence that was used against you.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Was the forensic evidence. Yes, and they when they arrested you.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: What did they take from you?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: They took me fucking tops and clothes and all that ship.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I don't they yep.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And the woman that gathered that's her job to gather it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You may bag it up, seal.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: It properly, share what was on those clothes.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: Fucking nothing money until eight weeks and eventually got there.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: Before that was sitting on a police fucking desk for uns.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But eventually there was.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Damn, I've been a glass freebles glass and no gunshot
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: residue none.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: They didn't even do gunshot reside that fucking day when
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: I rested the sept four, the fire and hey pressed
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: the eight weeks time to be the glass wants found
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: any glass from the door apparently right, just some fucking spike. Yeah, yeah,
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: fucking sprinkled in the fucking bags.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: I get it. I get it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I'm kleiving the time. Then there's nothing time to bear
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: it making Yeah it was.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: It was fucking like mad and Russels straight Vomans were
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: the most notorious in the midlighties in their bullshit had
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: a massive man find called a turn of scum.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Beg you social media.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Who was cooling?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: That made the fucking media.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Time I was in everything, but also have you in
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: custody as well.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Now nothing the dangerous place, very dangerous place, mate, But
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: no one said.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Tell me, tell me about your your early days on hermand.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's an adventure.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: I got to make certain blokes like Bobby Finnity Boxer, uh,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: the Valence fucking family, Sophie.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: You know I made and I had to. It's all
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: in your experience. I can fight and all that, but
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: this isn't your experience.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: This is new experience. And it's also a high profile
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: and something that some crims would.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: Hope of my dinner day, someone's going to feel sorry
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: for I'm gonna get knocked. They try to organize me
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: to get knocked when I When I eventually got sentenced
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: and I went to a division they tried getting Dave
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: McAuley was murt the fucking death and he came out
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: in con front of you, mate.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: We grabbed him, mate, within the fucking cell.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: What did he say to you?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: He came out and put it on I was a
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: fucking rat. And the fucking certain screws.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: That weren't because of what you're alleged to have done.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Certain bench screws that worked with the comperence, mate, to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: try and get me.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: No, I'd come over there and he got certain a
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: high profile killers and all that shit older that are
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: running these fucking divisions something say so at the end
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: of the day, Hey, I was fins you get stabbed. Yeah,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: but he came out in co front of me because
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: what am I going to do? Get ee you mother fucker.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: And so I'm sat because that fucked it all upright.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: He eventually stabbed something frick went down and drive and
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: they've got burnt the fucking deft in, you know what
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: But he's on.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: You don't mourn him.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I don't fucking morn him all mate. I give a
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: shit have been.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: I didn't go there to fucking meet people, but I
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: met certain characters there that were genuine people. Bobby finned
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: In and safety fucking balance, you know what I mean,
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: Brian and all that.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And you had to learn real quick, smart mate.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: And because there's each days taken a week by week,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: month by month year than a second year.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: By that time, mate, I'm running a fucking show. Me
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: and my fucking gang.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Mark Smith Defect declared, I played the reef and the
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Rustle Street fucking Bodman Mark.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: No yearie, you know what I mean. No, I'm came
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: in tory of us all. You know what I mean.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Don't be again.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I'm being fishing primor at pounds. I'm fucking got twenty
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: inch fucking and I'm mighty five perloves mate. I'm in
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: my prime, brother, the best years of your life, you
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: know what I mean. That's when you see me, when
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: you see me in the photos or the photos.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know you were strong and strong and
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: pretty willing.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you know so people tended to leave
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: you alone.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: They fucking stayed right away. Mate, I hoping that someone
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: is going to step out of line and something saying,
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: and what's.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: It like to be in maximum security? But you weren't
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: in protection in mainstream? You want you're in mainstream.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: What's protection?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: What's it like to be in mainstream at that time?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Having been alleged to have done this? Heenus crime?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Better eyes in the back of your head, mate, because
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: People talking to you saying we're going to get you.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Not at all, not at all. None of that happened, mate,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: You know, none of that happened.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because these days it probably would don't you think.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Your shelf mate? Yeah, I'll get back to banana fight.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I can fucking fight mate.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so let's go back to the evidence.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Sat.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: You're on remand there.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: But you say that you could fight, mate, because you're
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: not fighting, you don't get together, end of the abyss.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I get it. I get it, and you have to
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: you have to cast a shadow.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: If you can't fight in prison, you better know someone
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: makes a peck on order. You are fucked, no matter
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: what religion, trlor, bike, what, don't know what?
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Gang? You better right? Right?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Mat Now tell me about the evidence, because you have
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: done a long freedom of information. Yes, I hold of
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: the evidence which showed that there wasn't a proper chain
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: of custody.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: The chain of events that professional changer events at them.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: So you your clothes were taken from you. What did
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: you discover happened to them after they were Well?
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: What I discovered it was two months later that all
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: of a sudden, hey pressed there, we've got glass lucy
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: to hearing to some of my clothes from the window.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: But the whole thing of process of doing the right
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: ting to make sure nothing's interrupted the woman in whose
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: job it is to gather the evidence properly, seal it,
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: not market. Then it's taken to the friends department, to
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: whever who's going to do the fucking testing and all
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: that shit.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: She did none of those procedures.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: They were left on a police fucking desk, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, unsealed bags, unsealed bags. And eight weeks later
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: it finally gets to the forensics store, sealed bags, and
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: some dickhead forensic whatever is housed on his chest. Don't
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: you get she was shot with a shotgun. I never
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: found a fucking shotgun. They didn't even raid my fucking
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: house looking for a gun where I fucking.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Lived and you were staying with your parents.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't even raid my.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: Fucking place, and I had a gun license and ship.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: They didn't even raise my hair. It's a double barrel,
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: single barrel. They found a ward stiff ship means nothing,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: just the water of the shotgun shell. Yeah, that's nothing,
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, but at the end of the day,
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: they're just surmising was a double barrel, single And I
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: didn't have the website, but the whole thing is there,
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: and when it did see it and don't you get
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: win this woman? Don't get my lawyers, mate. I was like,
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: they still got it. There, got the laws I had
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: kent and go with the young one. David just a turd,
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean? A ship just lives off
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: his old man's trip.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: He died recently.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Did he good? Could have done? Nicer person, you know
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: And because well, because because if I say, if I,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: if I say a savage and all that, they're not
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: nice people. Mate. I was a sacrificial fucking land for
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: these pricks. Went on became a candy court judge and
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: didn't pay his taxes and fucking died. Everybody prospered. The
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: copper went on to magan Zami's a super fucking start.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well that's that's one of the bites.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: But let's look at the evidence again, because because that
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: your contention is that evidence should never have made it
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: into the trip, never made it in there. Why did
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: it make it into the tribe because it was damning
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: against you, No damning.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Because the fuck that the jury is very It's like
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: they're alleging I'm putting a shotgun to your head this close.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and this is not going to deal with the forensic.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: On the legal side of it, I'm trying to attempt
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: and murder. The fucking jury was novel and I had
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: two trials. The first time I was aboarded because of
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: the Age newspaper and their dickhead much as well Channel
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: seven and all that ship Mate, six weeks I had
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: justice tay.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: That Jude frick What did they say about you in
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the agent?
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: But they're trying to trying to show the injuries and
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: flute the fucking favor to feel sorry for it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry. I got memorandums there.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: Mate.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Didn't you feel sorry for him?
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: No, I'm feeling sorry for yourself. At the end of
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: the day, there's a shocking injuries, mart but I didn't
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: shot the fuck.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I'm fighting for my fucking why for you?
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I get it. So I'm saying I get it.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I got lawyers, right, and you.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Want to Robin my fucking family got thousands and thousands
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: of fucking dollars.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I certainly do raise the issue that information
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: that you received. When did you receive this information about
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: the way the evidence was dealt with?
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: When did you get that?
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: As in that was predomin information I was an FOI
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: I was the first one that said the process.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You were already convicted by that time, yes, yes, and
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: don't So why didn't Can I ask the question, though
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: this is just factual, why didn't your lawyers have that information?
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Because they didn't get it till the fucking troll started.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: And what did they do with it?
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Well, you got the trill started, mate, They can't or
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: they enjoy.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: But but well, I think, I mean, I think in
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: normal circumstances today, if it's not normal, well, I know,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: but the defense today would have said, listen, this is
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: that we can't be sure that the chain of custody
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: has been right.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: In other words, from the time it was taken through
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: the time it's in the store.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: It's been sitting on a dish fucking nice right before
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: you ask your question. And the coppers excuse for that
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: fucking one is our police wouldn't fucking do that sort
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: of ship end of the day, don't they, end of
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: the day it should be sitting on a fucking polace deck.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Well, it certainly shouldn't.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: As simple as that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I agree with that. I agree with that book.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying you, your father and you about this,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: your lawyer knew about this, Why didn't.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: They didn't know about it until the trial started, and the.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Fun even then, I think it should have been a matter.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: Yes it was, but the prigic starts they time up
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: with later, which is just bullshit, you know. I mean,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: we didn't get access to that till the fucking troll started. Heck,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: can you thought that just that sort of fucking thing.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but when it's.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: Already been left on a dance where the should procedure
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: is to be locked up safely, it's contaminated, mate, Right,
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: no swamp of your hands. No, don't fucking failed, No admissions,
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: that verbal verbal verbal, all the fucking shields.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: It was written by the cop. Just straight the statements.
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: Just you can say, how just make cobbed it, I'm saying.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: And then I got legal people, mate, and not the
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: legal attorneys like the bunch of turds. Majority of the
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: bunch of turds.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Mate, I mem Miranda, No, Pember won't argue with that.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Majority of turdsmight't charge fifteen twenty thousand dollars they sided
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: they want to do deck collect them, mate, that's what
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: I'm charging.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Mate.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: You want to save your life, I'm uncharged, tiny grand
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: I'm a fucking key c on the street. Yes, what
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: I'm saying.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: So in the end, after your second trial, you're found
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: not guilty.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I've attempted. They gave me g b as F fifteen
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: with a third.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, if someone was guilty, they would think that
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: would be a good result.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Fuck them.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, because because I ain't.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Because strictly speaking, if you discharge a shotgun within someone
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: close to someone's head, that that is.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: This is apted murder.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: The technicality side of the legal side of saying five
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: pints a shotgunder your fucking did that closer in and
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: go click my I'm not there to course, gv H.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: I ain't for your fucking big toe made. If you
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: quit me of attempted murder, you'll quit me of every
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: just on that side of fucking don't give me gv
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: H for the headshot. The jervy was fucking novel day
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: turtal weight fucking tricks, mate, mate, It's just a fucking game, mate,
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: place run fucking tar upright, It's not a knowy fucking
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: five mate. Yeah yeah, in the end, the patching, Yeah,
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: I'm still standing all these days later, don't get all
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: that ship of leaving things on the place desks. None
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: of that was to the Moodier. They didn't print any
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: of that where people are going, whoa, now they are
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: because I'm talking to you. And if I sound fucking
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: dirty on it, I'm fucking filthy on it. Yeah, I
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: can tell he's ever going to fucking shine. I don't
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: get those days back. My parents don't get their days
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: back now, but I'm filthy on it. Mate.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It made me a type of more stronger.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Tell me how is your relationship with your family through all.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: This fucking dress.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: I'm a good fucking person. Oh man, Now, man, I
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: was going, Hey, I'm going there now and visit myke.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: What I'm gonna tell me parents either trying to murder
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: me or this that over it there?
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, blah blah blah. I mean they're beautiful, fucking purple mate.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, so, if you found guilty and of the
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: greatest bodily harm, hold the record for it, yes and forever.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: You then appeal that and you got to action of scent.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: They was, and they did a deal ben three wise monkeys.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: We ended up serving about seven years, right.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: And it's seven and a half fucking years.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: I am again. If you were guilty, that would be
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: a good result.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I wasn't. The Yeah, it's not a good
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: result when you're not fucking dolty.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: No fair enough.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Fucking seven and a half his best years of your life.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, fair enough.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: It's changing it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: So tell me you do that seven years and running
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the show man, what's the impact on you in there?
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: It turns me into a very violent man. Well, you've
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: got to be violent to survive, mane and I might
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: tato them. Fucking pole made you get in my way,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: I'll kill you.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: How much violence?
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: Fucking shocking violence, mate, stabbings of mate, you know you
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: just had to do, brother, he said to me, or them,
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: I'm going.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: To kill them.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: That's what it is to present the people. Did you
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: stab my field? Stayed to fuck away from you, brother
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: and my crew? They were dangerous crew, mate, We went
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: in there selling drugs. We weren't fucking junkies. Only a
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: handful of people, mate, rizzies used to bringing the ram
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: of the boxes. Crew was only one inst You move
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: around and spar with him, brother, Yeah, it's done. A
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: handful of people doing the waves. They all fucking junkies
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: can't beat for dangerous junkies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: end of the day, mate, when.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I fucking stomped your mate, You're never going to be
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: a division with me again. You know something.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: I'm stomping you all the way into fucking protection or
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: the fucking the hospital or the fucking morgue, you know
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: what I mean.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Ed, I don't know if I'm getting out in steven
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and a half years time.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Looks lucky you didn't get a longer sentence for stabbing
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: people in there.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm getting caught, brother, Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, those sort of third sort of things in it
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: you end up getting more years.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Oh my, So I didn't have to stab Marge's knucklegain?
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah right now, Michael bench first point of pensty five
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: klos mate.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: There was none of that ship and a track dive, mate,
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: just plenty of counting me and my athletic ability.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I had that athletic ability. I would have
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: been fucked part of the French I would have been
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: fucked at the end of the day. It wasn't. And
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I can show me running the show with the fighters
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: that you've sleep big yunit mate.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: So tell me you finally get through all that and
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: you come out of jail, what was your mindset about
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: what your life would be like after this.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to be looking after Melandering and I'm
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: gonna u and extort. Kicked the ship out every fucking
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: rad ey can't preferably rich rats, whether you're fucking black, red, pink, whatever, legion.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: I don't give a fuck, mate, And you did that
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: fucking yeah. I don't want to go to out mate.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: I was running back that Brussels in the East and
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: Savage there we brought. I was running Club twenty five
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: and Mitchen. That was a brothel, was worth a lot
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: of money back then with the licensing a tropical loss
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: and not illegal. I couldn't run it because I'm a
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: convicted felon. My brother's a square head.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: He's running it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: I've got the job, mate, the thirty thousand dollars. The
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: older brother was a sports mader. He used to run
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: the Melbourne Marathon and an athletics coach. I got called
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: in there one day because Hell's Angels are standing neighver,
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: the bike in there and the bitch and I wasn't
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: getting paved at seven months and I sat down with
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: him and he brought agaves.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Paul. What can you do?
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: I said, give me thirty fucking grand mate, and w
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: fucking gone. As soon as I make a phone call
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: and I go and I'll go look it up for you,
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: and you can't look at me go with him? I said,
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: figure pardon, I said, mate, you better have thirty thousand dollars,
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: big fucking mons and an hour and a half, prick,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: I'll break your fucking legs an hour and a half, mate,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: And the one fucking fine call.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: They said that a prick. That hell was Angel. I
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: don't give a fuck. He was Angel. What have you right?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Runner and owned the pitbull terriers.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I doumb my body, guys, at the end of
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: the day, if you're there, my dogs are going to
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: tear the fucking bitches. I kicked down the doors as
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: I'm kicking and punching it out down the end, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: they were fucking gone and vacated. When Runners turn around
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: and goes you want to run it, so I can't
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: fucking run. I'll get you the shielders because you know
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: the other had to run it. Would they get the
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: license to the legal prostitution of brothels is nine and
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: eighty six.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Of portion.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: This brothel was worth a lot of money, and the
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: aationn Cyberg is one reason it had a twenty four
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: fucking hour license.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: The I was in the city did for that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: The lastern sabage there. They did this run deep twenty
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: four hours. It was worth a lot of money. But
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: this bitch, she'd made millions of dollars out of it.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Of course, let the properly run down, et cetera, et cetera.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: And of course the angels stood over the people that
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah, saying that they give me the thirty
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: grand shit. I made it and moved on, and then
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: I was off with that mates, right, and got the
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: shielders in there. It was there for the fucking three years,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: run over with fun. I'm running club twenty five.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, So you were flat out back into
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: crime more or less, even though it was sort of.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: No I'm telling protection.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: That's not telling protection, brother, I'm not a fucking drug
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: dealer telling muscle that I've got a fucking problem and
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: I solve it.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: That's the fucking quote.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: But there was crimes involved in yeah, yeah, yeah, of.
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: Course there is. People were going to get murdered. We're
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: going to it's the job, brother, Yes, coating around it, brother.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Living a courting for it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Did you know No, not at all.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I think you had one. You've had one charge and
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: that was that was was assaulting a police officer.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Wasn't it.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: No, tried to make it and I was trying out
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: the magistrate's court. Yeah, I took him and made the
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: scum bag and you know made me laugh.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Have you been lucky, Paul, No, not lucky.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Well there's been a luck night. But I'm professional what
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: So when in the day I break your fucking legs, mate,
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: I get ten years, I'm murder you are going to
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: do twenty Life's over a game. People make a twenty two,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: do a triple A phone call, may drop my nugger,
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: A swat team around it.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm saying, I er exult you.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Come.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I ask you straight out. I got to ask you
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: if you kill people.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Yes I have.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to turn around and say her and
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: get myself pinched. But yeah, harding to drive my course.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: You have the cool people. They tried murder me four
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: years ago.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: As I said, mate, you know, I don't take a
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: knife to a fucking gun fight in the Yeah, Carvonos
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: is big black caun't mate for lucky, you know, As
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: I said, don't take a knife to a gun fight, mate.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, there was a four and a half hour
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: into me gust into being Testines and they got to
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: worry about you.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I'm getting wheeled in and trying to get wheeled in there.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: So what happened there? Tell me what happened to that situation?
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean in the business of I mean, and
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: someone owed me a lot of fucking money, mate. I
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: was always in the visions of dog fighting, mate, you know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: and the biggest type of dogs that I have fights
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: for one hundred thousand dollars from.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: You know, that's still going on.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: He goes on there. Of course, it's a it's a
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: big and dollar industry rock.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: You know. I made the Vulcans Russia, and my dogs
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: ended up my bloodlines and all that Russia, the Vulcans Sweden.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: That's how I first met Mickey Murray. It's a big mickey,
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: you know, common chair. He's got a problem marriage your life.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: That's another thing we meet to the fucking the people.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but tell me where you were stabbed. You get
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: stabbed because you were collecting a debt.
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: They owed me money, right, they aave me, you know,
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: six figures, mate, and they were hoping they're going to
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: kill me.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You mane not pay a.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Fucking dead And what happened to the blake that stabbed you?
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: He's no longer around?
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Did you kill him?
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying he's no longer around? Yeah, I mean
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: put it this way, he's gone to rat heaven, you
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: know what I mean. And the person who organized that, mate, well,
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: you know I mean, shouldn't touch fucking drugs, mate, you know,
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: especially heroin. Yeah, and leaving at fucking that mate, and
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: you're still in this business semi retirement. I get off
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: at the right amount, mate.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: I mean to say, anybody out there, mate is rolling
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: a bit, getting stored over and mate on the man,
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: but it comes at a price. It's like all these
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: fucking tobacco shops and all that ship. Mate, Come stand
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: over me. I made black leaving mate, Mate with your
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: fifteen and six lame mate, I'll break your legs. You'll
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: be in a wheelchair for the rest of your fucking life.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: That's how life rolls. Mat Chee the government doing. Yeah exactly,
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: I'm paying smarty know the fucking shitty mate, I stick
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: up your sidevice at the end of the day.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Eight, that's how it rolls, mate, I don't care. I'm
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: a comedian and like an a dad.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a job, mate. Do you have any peace
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: in your life?
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: You know I'm dirty. I'm dirty.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Yes, I love mate, and I've done a lot of
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: things in your life, you know, so I'm saying, but
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I can't have a
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: normal relationship because it's scared.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Not that I care, mate, because I'm a line of it,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: not fucking lonely and.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: You are alone. You live by yourself with avy fucking dogs.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: I've been bringing peoples for fucking thirty years, mate, and
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: notorious for that, Matet. The end of the day, my
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: job is to be fucking feed mate, you know I mean,
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: And obviously you're gonna last one of my fucking game.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: May you better have a brain rudder? So you're dealing
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: with a fucking my life.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I asked you this when I first met you. I said,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: you ever had any counseling?
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: No, I haven't.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: My canceling you mate, is is like is fucking fresh air.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: As I said when I when I was getting released
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: to go so the shrinks and I said, hey, I've
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: done the seven and a half years. I'm not fucking
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: happy about it. We think I'm going to make it admission,
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: I'm pissed about it. My life fucking rolls on. What
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: can I say? I haven't got the hundreds of thousands
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: of to start the ball rolling. That's what I'm just
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: sitting here right there. And if people run day, we'll
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: post and show the top and they had their own
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: thing because at end of the day, it's not this
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: fucking here.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Say just said that, mate, You're not fucking stupid. Mate, No,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and you're not even mate, What do.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: You tell your I don't agree with everything, but you
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: tell your story.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: You understand whe I'm fucking coming from.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: I do I think the anomalies you've raised the.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Fucking serious anomalies.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: Well they are. And if it was in the other case,
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: I feel the same way.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: Yes, mate, Okay, and dam again. When I get released
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: from prison, we're gonna work nine to five. I'm not
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: a shape, mate, I'm the fucking leader. It's pore melond
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: rink pit more mark. And so I'm saying every day
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: every person got a problem in life. No, man, well
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: i'lso have your fucking problem, mate, like a good cheese.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: So Paul Winkle, steining and sign. And that's a fucking price.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: They're charging thirty dollars a day to save your mate.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: I'll charge forty thousand dollars a fucking day chessing your
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: halftime me you nare? Yeah, And it's like toy I
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: want your fucking business, or you want to franchise. My
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: fucking name is going to cross you. Yeah, that's implement
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: fair enough. Yeah, it's like drug dealers. I know, as
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: long as I know I'm fucking sitting there, they're playing
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: me your sling mate. No one's gonna rob you know
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: I can rob them as long as you're slinging me,
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: mate on twenty four hour court.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: You don't play with what I want, mate, you will
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: get robbed.
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: So but in saying that on the s every retirement
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: I made relaxing and Michaels and this is relaxed, is it?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, man, it is. They were thinking, hey, I'm going
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: to bed, this is my brother.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of fierceness in your life.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: Killer in stick, Brother, wept all that ship, but I'm
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: always my chips at the end they turned me into
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: a psychopath mode.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Well you said to me that on the first meeting.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: You said, I'm an educated psychopath.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: That sounds bad, mate, really nearly mate. At the end
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: of the day, I got no choice. Yeah, may all them.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: It's going to be someone can murder me mating a
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: good lawyer. Mate, No fucking burden played the card.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: You considering our life's gone, do you have any regrets?
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, getting fucking framed to keep the frame rudder, that was,
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: but in the underworld side of things. But in the
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: underworld side of things as a as an enforcer made
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: him at the top of the fucking shain, brother, And
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: the idea is not to get pinched deckheads, go to jail.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: Brother. I stand in a room with ten fucking bad times, Mate.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: None of them are fucking rats. Are Rack before I
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: met him? And if I don't work that quick smart
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: so I nailed them, Mate, I'm going to get got
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: so at the end of the day, I know who's
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: going to get got game. My second price, You're going
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: to get knocked. I don't know what nationality, mate, and
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: most of them got a green tie working for the Jackson. Anyway,
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: I saught me right there sixty four. I know forty
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: year olds write bad purple makes.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I'm in there.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: You don't, mate, If I want to get a green
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: tig gout of the cop, give me a gread cardill
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: be a rat made.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I can top the mate.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I remember all this, and obviously Cas lived
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: with the consequence.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Don't shock and injuries of that night? Shock and injuries?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: What would you say to her if you were to
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: have the opportunity to.
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: I gave the opportunity. I first came out and current
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: a fair man. They did a current affair with any
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: bed and not I got out, mate. You know, I ma,
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: and I said this go live mate at the end
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: of the day. And because he's always bandoned and she's
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: got to go with that fucking that context, mate, Okay, yeah,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, and as I said to my lords, I've
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: got memorandums, I want her DUT's torn it.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I want to cross examined to and they didn't do it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Rather everybody feel sorry for it.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: But I'm sitting on the back of a fucking Saparin
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: caulled like a fucking indecid and get the rob watching
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: me pair it's mate, Yeah, yeah, it made me a
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: better character.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Mate, So I've got a story to tell. Yeah.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Do you think do you think there'll ever be peace
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: for you?
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Paul? Yeah? When I'm one hundred and five, I'm winning
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: right now much. I'm still a life brother. I'm not
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: in a wheelchair.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Mate. I'm sixty five in December and mate, I'm still
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: holding up. And they don't take a night. Yeah, end
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: of the day when you're playing gangsteries and mate, that
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: it's got the fastest trigger, isn't it.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I guess he's got you.
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: I don't give a fuck with your twenty five years
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: only can bench prest eight hundred pounds?
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Mate, We're not going to stop a bullet.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's true. That's thank you for sharing the.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Story, than Adam. Thank you very much. Mate.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: And you're the first person I've discussed it with his mate,
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And he don't get me wrong.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: I love life and I don't know everybody know what
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: I'm up to. You don't tell your left hand, but
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: your right hands to them. But I've done I've done
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: well for my fucking sholf.
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: Okay, thank you, thanks for listening to this episode and
• 44:02
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• 44:04
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• 44:05
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• 44:08
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