Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.48 | Design Courses & Online Programs That Actually Get Real Results, with Curriculum Designer & Former Teacher, Tay Weaver

Transcript

Ep.48 | Design Courses & Online Programs That Actually Get Real Results, with Curriculum Designer & Former Teacher, Tay Weaver · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, welcome back to the Curiously Guided Podcast, the place for intuitive business owners and curious minds.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're your host, Shay Mariah, and today we're talking with a live learning expert and former teacher, Tay Weaver.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys, this episode is really close to my heart.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: It we really hit on a subject that I feel very strongly about.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: As we know, the online education world is growing at an exponential pace.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild if you look at projections for how big the market share is for online education.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you guys have seen it.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's courses and masterminds and programs and all kinds of things.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's only going to continue to get bigger.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And one problem I've had with this industry is there's a lot of experts out here teaching you, you know, their signature process or whatever, but they don't actually know how to teach.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's one thing to actually be a pro at what you do, and it's a whole nother thing entirely to actually teach people in a way that they understand and retain and actually know what to do with.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that I think the art of teaching is a little lost in the online community, um, online education space.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, what's cool is now there are people out there like Tay who are, you know, her background is in education, but she's really specialized in helping people take their curriculums and their frameworks and their courses and restructure them in a way that actually gets their clients real results, actually has an impact for them.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just, you know, recorded lectures times 500 hours, good luck, which unfortunately is like a common recipe we see.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Tay, I can't tell you how much I enjoy following her um on her online platforms.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: She is a wealth of knowledge.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's I I just love everything she has to say.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I found I learned so much in this episode.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that y'all do too.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I first got introduced to Tay um through Topsies, who's gonna be a guest a little bit later this season.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in one of her programs, Tay came in and kind of taught us the basics of like what actually is a framework?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, especially in the online space, frameworks that was being thrown around literally all the time left and right.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got a little taste of Taylor's genius, like in the moment, like in her zone, her teaching about frameworks and just like the good, the bad, and how to do it, and like her approach to teaching and education.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like game changing for me.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not and not game changing in the way of like, oh my God, I need to now do this, this, and this.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was game changing in a way of like, oh fuck, it can really be that simple.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it can actually be simplified versus more complicated, like our human minds like to do it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so having her on this podcast to have this conversation, especially coming from somebody like I have an online course, and just being able to kind of ask her questions and get a different perspective, a perspective of somebody that's been in the education space that has been educated to educate.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's so needed in this space.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing that I really like is like how we dove into learning styles.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like we hear all the time of like your program needs to cover a bunch of different learning styles.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: But like Taylor kind of switches it and like puts it on its head.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not gonna give it away, but this episode is especially juicy if you have a course, if you have a program, or if you've been a client or a student in one, I think that there's a lot of magic in here, too.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So Taylor is a former public school educator, turned corporate curriculum designer.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's also a successful business owner, serving over 50 programs as a curriculum consultant.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Taylor is known for flipping the education system on its head, shaking it all out, and replacing it with new thoughts, beliefs, and strategies to empower educators to be confident in themselves and their knowledge.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: In a world that expects educators to give more, Taylor is always there to remind you that more is not required to be a successful educator.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: She believes that intentionality, best practices, connection, and the permission to have fun are vital keys to student success in adult learning settings.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: When she's not educating, Taylor can be found playing Uno with her husband and daughter, finishing a thriller book in about 24 hours, cuddling with her puppy, planning her next beach vacation, or making dance videos to post on Instagram.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, let's get into the episode.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Taylor, we are so fucking excited to have you on the podcast.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's kind of just been like a long time coming.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I remember name-dropping you in one of our previous episodes last season with Alex because we were talking about the online course world and educators and stuff like that.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually first came across your stuff when I was in one of Topsy's programs.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: She had you I love her.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she had you come in and kind of teach us in the program just more about like live learning and just like what that means and how to create a program or a course that better supports our students, our clients, and all of that fun stuff.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember being in that session with you and I was like, holy shit, like people don't know about this.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like it sounds so simple, like in theory, of just like, yeah, teach your people the right way, like how people learn.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's like, what the fuck does that even mean?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just really grateful to have you on the podcast here.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that your background is in teaching, you're super passionate about education, like the education space in general.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: But like, how did you start exploring the online world, helping course creators, uh, educators in the space?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did that transition happen?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it actually started with Beachbody.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Fun fact um, I was a Beachbody coach.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I don't even know what Beachbody is.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just like like uh it's it's like a health, fitness, like workout, and it's kind of an MLM, basically.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I've heard the word like thrown around.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what the fuck is that?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I started off with Beachbody, and um, that kind of introduced me to the online space.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I was in Beachbody, I think, from like March 2019 all the way until August 2019.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: And during that time, I started getting on Instagram, um, trying to reach people, and that's when I found out about the online space.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: And my little mind was blown because the only thing I've really known up until then was a classroom, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: I went to college for to teach in a classroom.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was in classrooms.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, this is amazing, and I'm going to get in on this.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I opened my own business.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: I left Beach Body, opened my own business September 2019.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I did like business coaching, you know, kind of I was part, I was listening to that episode of How with Alex, you know, where everybody like, this is what I do.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Now you go teach that to other people.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's the world that I lived in for a while, and I absolutely hated it because I'm a person, I'm like, do not put me in a box, do not tell me what to do.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so, and that wasn't a time where people were like helping you figure out your own niche and your own skill sets.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it took me a lot of time to get where I was.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: I started that September 2019, June 2020.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: By then, I had already made a ton of connections in the online space, and I heard all my friends talking about frameworks.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, well shit, that's what I do in the classroom.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I think I could help with that.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think I could help you with that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I had it was my first framework workshop in June 2020, and it was incredibly successful.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like people were very interested in it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: June, July, August.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: I had people reaching out to me, like, hey, can you make my slide decks?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, can you do this for me?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Can you do that?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it was so weird.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like I saw a market that hadn't really been like widely tapped into yet.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And at that time, I had friends in the online space, friends, I say in quotes, telling me, like, that's not gonna be profitable.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's not a good idea.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, everybody's doing this, so you should do this too.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Give me their name and number so I can call them.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: They're not my life anymore.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, yeah, we're done.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I just saw I just had a feeling like this is do it.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I started helping people with their frameworks, I started helping people with their slide decks.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of how I got started with the whole education aspect of my business.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I was making slide decks for people like crazy.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then October 2020, that's when I quit my business coaching and I was like, we are gonna go all in with this educational aspect.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And ever since then, here's where we are.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was it was insane.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then behind the scenes of all that, I left teaching May 2020 to do my business full time, stayed home with my daughter during COVID.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then by October 2021, I was like, I'm bored.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go back in the classroom.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I went back to the classroom, and then as of December 16th, so like four days ago, I left teaching again.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been it's been a ride.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of been all over the place.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, congratulations.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: That is a huge step.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us like what's different this time, like what led up to the decision to leave again.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: I hate the education system with a burning passion.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I was on like there are lots of things that led to this decision, but I think the biggest one is like lack of support.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And not just like lack of support, I mean like an insane lack of support.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell people um, the school I was at, I love the people there.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you if you want to see a school of educators that advocate for each other and literally go extremely out of their way to help each other, that's the school.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And even then, like the system is just not structured to support us and to support kids.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I was kind of like, I'm tired of being your little pawn.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm tired of like, I have to deal with whatever you throw at me.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: I can't say no, I can't ask for help.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was just it was just not a good, not a good environment to be in.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of the norm, which is really sad.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's the norm in public schools in a lot of places is teachers just don't have the support they need to do their jobs.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I hit a point where I was like, I cannot do this.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I literally cannot do this until May.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up leaving just to make space for whatever else that's hopefully better than whatever I just got out of.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: So well, uh I think uh all of us in the online space are very grateful that you're taking the leap because like we need you here.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um we we definitely need you, and I will I will say that that's one of the things that was kind of like an ear perk up moment for me to even join Topsy's thing was that she was like, We're gonna help you create your framework.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: And framework was thrown around so often in the online space to where I was like, a framework, I need a framework.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: What the fuck is my framework?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: How do I create a framework?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want a signature framework because you're seeing all these like big, flashy people be like, This is my four-step gap framework where G stands for this and A stands for that.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, I don't have one of those.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I need a I don't I don't even know what that is, like an acronym.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I need an acronym, and I'm just like, oh my goodness, Taylor's gonna come in and save the day.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then you explained it, and I'm like, oh.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: It makes a lot more sense when you just allow yourself to kind of like switch the perspective there.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how would you explain a framework to somebody, especially like old me, that was very much like, it's a very rigid structure, and I need to find the perfect word that makes an acronym.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, okay.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I always, and I I don't think I said this in your training.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: This has kind of evolved over time.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like a good framework should always make room for the humans inside of it.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: There have been a lot of um negativity towards frameworks recently.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's just a huge misconception about like what frameworks are and what education is in general.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is why I love education, because it lives in a gray area.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's structure and there's room for humans happening at the same time.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And usually people take it in the online space one way or the other.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's so structured, and you will go through these exact steps.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: And if you don't get results, it's on you.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Or we're just flowy and you can just do whatever you want and follow your heart.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's no, there's no like happy medium.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one thing I always say about frameworks now is like there's always room for the humans inside of it, and there is structure because people need structure, but there should be space for human error and there should be room for people maybe to do different steps a little bit differently based on who they are and their lived experiences.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the first thing I always say.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and a framework is really just how you get your clients from point A to point B.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so big as an educator, like that does need to be planned out and it needs to be thought about before the clients ever come to you.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't have to be an acronym to be good.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I actually don't really encourage acronyms unless they like it literally makes sense.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: But what I notice is we get so focused on acronyms in the online space that we try to like fit our framework into the acronym instead of being like, let's make a framework.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: And if it has an acronym, that's great.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: But if not, I'm not changing my framework because this is the best process.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we don't want to like squeeze it in there, like, oh, a cute marketable name.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then people get so tied to it, they don't make changes when they really need to.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's really important what you're saying.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I think a lot of people think like the value is in the acronym or the value is in the name.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like the value, and like, yes, all that stuff is important, but it should come from a really valuable product, not like mask, you know, nothing, you know.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it it can be a good marketing sometimes, like, oh, they have a process, you know, like that looks good.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: It has a name and it's easy for me to remember.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that doesn't always mean that it works or that it's good.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, again, there's a lot of nuance there.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I just feel like there's so much frameworks, you know, were like a big deal, which I loved.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, yeah, we're talking about them.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: But now that people have gone through so many awful ones, they're like, frameworks suck and they're rigid and they only work for those types of people when I'm like, okay, then you didn't go through a good one because that's not what a real framework does.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's just so many, so many misconceptions out here.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: I had to do that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's oh no, go.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just hadn't really thought about the framework rebellion, but I am you're absolutely right.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've seen that like hard swing to the other side.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know what's popping up in my head, would you mind giving us like a a real example?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: What does a framework look like that kind of like walks the fine line of um allowing room for humanity and flow, but also like maintaining some rigidity?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: So um, for example, my I have when I teach people how to create frameworks, I have three steps.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: So you one of the like frameworks within my bigger framework is like having a starting point, ending point, fill in the steps.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: There is a like method that I use.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: I start from the end and then I go to the start, then I fill in the steps.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I tell my clients, if you want to start from the beginning and work towards the end, you can.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to fill it in going up, if you want to fill it in going backwards, it doesn't matter.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one part of my framework that is flexible.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: It literally doesn't matter how you choose to fill it in, as long as you fill it in using these three things.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: So there's still structure, but there's room for flexibility.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: But let's say if I'm working on a bigger program, um, I always start with my client's framework before looking at their curriculum.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that is something that I will stand by and I teach explicitly to my clients.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna look at your framework and then we're gonna look at your curriculum.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no flexibility there because if we don't look at the bigger picture first, we're gonna waste time on all these other smaller parts.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: So there's some parts of what I teach, there's flexibility.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: I really don't care what order you do this in, but there's some parts that I'm like, nope, we're gonna do it this way because as an expert on this situation, this is the best way to do it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just really finding that like duality of like, these are the parts, like it really doesn't matter how you do it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter which one you do first.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't, and I love when I help my clients like figuring out those parts of their framework, like maybe their content comes before their market research.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe market research comes first.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: Why would you do it the way that you do it?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like really digging deep into like where can there be nuance, where can there be flexibility and choice?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: And when do we as an expert need to step up and be like, no, actually, this really is best practice to do first.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And just finding the duality in that.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm finding so much overlap between this and SEO.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, like I'm like, as you're talking, I'm literally like, yeah, like that's exactly kind of what I'm thinking.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so many people will come and be like, Can you give me the seven-step process to getting on page one?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, there's fucking more nuance than that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, we use data, we have to follow the data points and blah, blah, blah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like you can look at it from a more flexible practice, but also like there are some things that like we ain't we ain't budging on type thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just finding that it's it's interesting because I I find the same with like uh people trying to learn DIY SEO.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: They'll either be like, fuck it, we're creating content with like no strategy at all.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're just gonna see where we show up.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's people white knuckling and over-strategizing, and then they're not getting any results whatsoever.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like so much of life is in the gray area that it's just an interesting data point and uh a point of self-reflection for us as we're having this conversation, as our listeners are listening.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where are you swinging too far in one or the other?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And like, how can you explore that?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: I just think that it's there's just so much overlap in, I don't know, all of life, basically.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know, and I love it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I'm so big on like, because I mean, most programs that I'm part of, like, there's gonna be more gray area than there is like a lot of, especially when your clients have that foundational knowledge, it's like using that knowledge to make decisions and nuanced situations, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I'm so big on when we educate, like we really have to do it right.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: So when they're in those gray areas, they can make choices that will actually help them.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that I think that people like really underestimate how hard education is because to get your students in a place where they can make those decisions takes really intentional teaching.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something I'm really big on is like educating on how intentional teaching is.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's it's challenging, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're having they're having all these great areas.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, Well, do I do this or do I do that?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I don't know, based on what you've learned, which makes the most sense for you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because the whole point of education should be for your clients to make their own decisions.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that that's like microphone.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like the most notable.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of online education is designed to help keep people dependent on the guru.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And really the point of education is teaching someone how to fish, not handing them the fish, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why you have to have the flexibility.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like here's the framework curriculum, use it as a foundation.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But when you get to mastery, it's when you take this and you make it your own.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So are you empowering your students to get there?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they may not need you anymore.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And are you okay with that?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the point of being a teacher.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so beautiful and so missed.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's like the whole, that's the whole joy of it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I know in the classroom when I see a student like solve a um multiplication problem correctly using whatever method works for them.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, we have made it.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: We have made it.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the same in the online space.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: When I see my clients go write curriculum after my CCA program, I'm like, let's go.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's that's what you're shooting for.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think on the flip side of that, it is really challenging to do when we as adults did not have education like that.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't blame if you're listening to this and you're feeling some sort of way, there's no shame happening here.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like when we went to school, I know when I went to school, it was like you sit it, here's the one way we're doing it, and you're gonna go do it.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you're gonna test education now.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, education now is like, here's what multiplication is.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here is six different ways to solve a problem.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: You can choose whatever way you want.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: I know when I learned multiplication, you're gonna sit and you're gonna memorize these and you're gonna take one of those stupid time tests that give me so much anxiety every week.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we were never modeled what education is and how it has evolved so, so much because best practices keep changing.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: And over time, they've just realized, of course, like, oh, that's not really what we want to do here, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't really like blame people in the online space for doing it because what do we have to go off of?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: As people who went through the education system, as people who like this is really all that we've Gotten modeled for us.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, of course I'm gonna go do that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it's understandable.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I'm so big about like bringing this stuff.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, here's what education is, here's what a framework actually is.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: So people can kind of be like, oh, okay.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I do a lot of people in online space do want their clients to go see success on their own.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: They just don't have like the tools and the knowledge and the education to support how to do that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what so the the one thing that kind of stuck with me, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think I remember you saying that adults learn differently than children.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Am I making that up?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that true or is that not true?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: We there are lots of best practices that I feel like carry over.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of the best practices I teach in my programs, I teach, I use in the classroom.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're just good educational best practices.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: The tricky thing about adults is I feel personally that we are harder to mold than kids, especially when we have all of these lived experiences.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of adults had an awful, awful education experience because things like 504s and accommodations and stuff did not exist when we were in school, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So we have a lot of like biases and preconceived notions about what learning is, and that off the bat can make it challenging to teach adults new things, in my opinion.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had never thought about that at all.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's like some unlearning that needs to happen.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of unlearning, and that's and as an adult who's like pretty established in like who we are and what we believe in, for somebody to come in and like shake that up, there's kind of it's kind of like I don't know how to feel about that, you know.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: I know when I've gone through that process personally, like I feel disoriented because it's like everything that I knew is wrong.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's like the shame that comes with like, what does that mean about me?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: What does that mean about how I've taught former clients?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: What does that mean about like, do my, you know, just it can go into a huge spiral.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something that I feel like always has to be addressed first with adults when we're educating is like the mindset and the emotions that can come with a lot of unlearning.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have a really positive, um, empowering approach, which I really appreciate.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned something earlier that's been like pinging around in my head, it's this idea of teaching intentionally.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the theme that we keep talking about, and I think what this does it it comes down to the fact that like all of us learn differently.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I have of a little bit of teacher training, and I remember that was the one thing I took away was like some people are kinesthetic learners, so they learn by movement, some people are listeners, they learn by listening, some people are speakers, you know, and and the way we learned in school was like you sit here and you memorize, and that works for like one little percentage of people, not everybody.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're being intentional teachers, it that comes down to thinking, how am I including different ways to learn?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how am I meeting people where they are?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And in like I think of all these different doorways to the same place.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Is that kind of like one of yeah, those are like the entry points, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like creating lots of different ways for people to access the curriculum.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I always tell my clients, like, I love learning styles, but I think it's funny, like as a teacher, like it's not something that we really think of focus on.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because um, it's more of like I like to think of it like I know in my classroom and even on my live calls, it's like a culture that I try to create.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: You want to stand, pace around the room, go for it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: You want to turn off your camera, go for it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: When I teach, I have fidget toys because I got social anxiety, which is super fun to have as a teacher.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna have my fidget toys, you know, like um, I'm gonna have visuals when it makes sense.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Just like naturally integrating those things, not thinking of it as like, okay, I have a lesson, and then I have to hit seven learning styles.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's like a culture of inclusivity.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and really just trying to think about like I always tell my clients um with like prior knowledge, like learning styles are very important, but like prior knowledge is important, entry points are important.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thinking about your clients' attitudes towards the topic that you're about to teach is important.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you can knock it, like there's so many things that educators think about.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just don't think that's like understood about how intentional you have to be with the people sitting in front of you.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which can be more challenging.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like as your programs get bigger, you got a hundred freaking people on your calls, you know, like, but that's the joy of education that I always love is like, how can we make this stick even more?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: How can we make it more relatable?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: How can we make it more enjoyable?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: How can we make it more fun?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, heaven forbid we laugh on this call today, you know, um, where like their their walls kind of start coming down and they're like open to whatever you have to say.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I feel like, you know, the mood with like lawmakers and like all these governors now that education is like the center of a lot of discussions, which is amazing because nothing's still being done about it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, people just don't see how hard our job is.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: They just don't understand.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know when I do um one of my group programs, we were talking about like objective creating, which is just as important as learning styles and how it's not being done.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: I remember teaching it, my students were like, geez, and I was like, welcome to being an educator.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is what we do for every lesson.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: When I teach five subjects a day, I'm doing this five times for the kids in front of me.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then that changes for the class that comes next.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just it's so challenging and it takes a lot of brain power and a lot of work.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I just feel like people don't understand that.
• 27:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it drives me crazy.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry for going on a rant there.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, it's great.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Rants are always welcome and shining the light on that, it's important.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's also important.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm glad that we're talking about unlearning.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also glad that you answered the question of like how to balance all the learning size.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that is a question that I wrote down.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, me coming from the perspective of I have an online course teaching people how to do DIY SEO.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, if I had to look at that through the frame of like, oh fuck, I gotta check all of these boxes in order to hit all of these learning styles, it would overwhelm me out of the creation process.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would be white knuckling it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like, how do we allow?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I feel like I say this quite often.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like this create the structure that allows us to flow in it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, how can we do that while not being so fucking serious while also taking it serious?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think it's also, I think part of that that helps me is like learning is a shared responsibility.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I say this at the beginning of every call that I ever do.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: You cannot expect me to anticipate every single need for every single person.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: It does not matter how hard I try, I am a human, but I am receptive to your feedback.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I love about like live learning is getting that live feedback and making those real-time adjustments because you can do all the planning in the world as a teacher.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: But the minute you start teaching, it's more about it's not being my head, like, oh my God, I hope I did everything right.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's really feeding off of your clients.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how are they receiving this?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that didn't work.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna pause the video and we're gonna like talk about this real quick until it makes sense.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Then I'm gonna make a note that that slide sucked, and then I'm gonna go back and change it next time I teach it.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it has to be a shared responsibility.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: There is so much stress on educators to know and to explain and teach everything perfectly all the freaking time.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think the best educators are not the ones that perfectly teach things, they're the ones that can notice when things aren't working and change it in real time.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the best educators I've ever seen online or in the classroom because they are so grounded and in tune to how their clients and students are receiving things.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's how I like to take a lot of stress off of me.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can have the most well-planned lesson, but what's most important is when I go teach it, I am so present with the people there that I can tell if it's working or not.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I tell my clients, if you say that you're good and you come back later and say, No, I was not good, that's on you.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: You had the opportunity for me to fix it and you chose not to take that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and of course, you can give lots of opportunities for feedback.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: We'll accept emails for 24 hours if people have some like call anxiety, or you can give me a thumb, or you can send me a private message in the chat.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: But there has to be some sort of exchange of responsibility happening because it's not fair.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is another reason I left teaching.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: Too much pressure on educators who really care and who are really trying.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, that's that's one of my biggest advices with that is like with the learning styles, put it where it makes sense, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: If y'all are looking at data, it probably makes sense to have a picture of a data, just common sense, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we don't have to have pictures on every slide, we don't have to have, you know, all these movement things.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes it just doesn't make sense, and that's okay.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: I will say though, you say common sense, but like it's not like people are like so laser focused into like their way that it's like not common at all.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I think what the point you're making is really like excellent, which is um there's a bit of improv in this, and there's a bit of like being nimble and being flexible.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's the fun part of it, and that's fun.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't have to be scary.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: That can be because I think a lot of us that's the scary part of like, what I have this perfect framework.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean I have to embrace feedback?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: But really, that's where it gets fun and playful.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And like, can you um really seek that out and live, you know, encourage?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, is this not working for you?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a data point I learned.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: How could I tweak the program to make it better?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: That growth mindset is so awesome and leads to awesome things, and it's fun, and it's it's easier with kids because kids are like they love it, they love when you're up there improving, they think it's hilarious.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but as adults, what I've noticed is I've seen a lot of adults that are like, this is a sign that she has no clue what she's doing.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just wanted to slide in here mid-episode and fill you in on some cool things quick.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we are in our third season of Curiously Guided, and there's nothing that fires us up more than making this podcast and hearing all the positive impacts it's having on our listeners.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Up until this point, this has been a pure passion project.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: But we've got bills and expenses for this podcast, y'all.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you have the means and would love to support us in creating new episodes, feel free to head over to curiouslyguided.com slash support to buy us a coffee.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want even a deeper dive, we're excited to offer.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna now um start doing some strategy sessions where you get both Mariah and I's brains on your business.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there's nowhere else in the world where you can we Mariah and I both don't work with people in such micro ways.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of a cool thing to get both of us looking at your business in kind of like a one-off strategy session.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just imagine us two and you together diving deeper on your business, marketing sales, and everything in between, um, all while filtering it through the lens of strategy energetics and energetics, which you know is our style.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to learn more about what working with Mariah and I could look like, head on over to our website, curiously guided.com slash session, to get the details.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys so much for hanging out with us.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate you so, so much.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get back into the episode.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: There have been moments where I'm teaching and I was like, I was teaching live and I was like, man, you know, a graphic would have been good here.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I would have added, I wish I would have added a picture of this because I just didn't think of it in the moment.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I was as I was like watching my clients, you know, they're kind of be like, oh, I don't know about that.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I like pulled up a graphic, I made it in real time, and I was explaining it, and everybody's like, oh, okay.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I got a DM saying that that was so unprofessional for me to do.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, well, here's your money back.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Goodbye.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do not ever buy my stuff again.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just I've just noticed adults, they when they come into programs, they're like, I've paid this amount of money and you will be perfect.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, you're paying me to give you my very best and also have some room for error because I'm a human, and just allow me to fix it.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I will fix it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: I can do that.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but there's a lot of stress and pressure, and it's it's challenging because there are some programs and courses that are not good, that really do take people's money, um, that are just awful and a scam.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: But like there's also a lot of programs and courses that really have a lot of incredible folks behind them, really, really trying, and there's so much pressure on them, it's not even fun anymore.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, which is sad because education should be fun.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: It should be fun for everybody.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: It should be a good time for everybody involved.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of stress and a lot of pressure on it currently.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hopefully we're shining the light on just like how can we figure this out as we're kind of moving through it?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad that you brought up just like the noticing your people, noticing how they're responding, because that's essentially the energetics of it, right?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's shit that you can't strategize.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's like the intuition of it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's like I'm getting this little nudge to kind of dive into this or ask a question.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, does this make sense?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive a little bit deeper into it.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: That only comes when you allow yourself to trust yourself to go for it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that I've really had to learn.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: And even before when we first started creating this podcast, Ashay, I would write full scripts of intros of just like, I can't fuck this up.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: People are gonna think that like I don't know what I'm saying, that I don't know what I'm doing, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: And as I've learned to trust myself to just go with the flow and kind of what comes out, it comes across more authentic.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I'm trusting my intuition to be able to feel into certain things while also holding the strategy and also knowing that like we have a theme for the episode.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So like, let's keep coming back to it if we can.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, shit, I had a question.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, what?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you've probably seen the back end of quite a lot of courses, programs, all of the fun stuff.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the most common mistakes that you see people in like online education making?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that's a good question.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I have I've had like an all-star group of clients.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I remember when I first started, like, I was fangirling all over my clients.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, some of them I have been following back since like Beach Body.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh my God, this is it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of it that the main problem that I see folks that I work with is they are giving too much, surprisingly.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um they and it comes from obviously like they are the most caring individuals I've ever met.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: And they, but they're just like giving and giving and giving to the point where like educationally it doesn't make sense, and business-wise, it also doesn't make sense.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're capping their incomes because all their IP is in their programs.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then educationally, it's so much that like the main focus of like where are we going here?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: It gets completely lost.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then the clients get lost.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we start focusing on like surface level change versus like that deep, deep understanding and transformation.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's that's what I see the most with the clients I work with, is that they just give and give and give, where it just stops making sense business-wise and education-wise.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's so easy to add another module.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's just throw another resource in there.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, just I mean, like, here's your extra bonus, and then there's this, and then there's that, and then there's this.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's so easy to add, especially when you're passionate about what the fuck you're talking about.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's so easy to keep talking about it.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but the the problem that I see, and I know I talked about this with topsies, you know, when we think about like what learning is and like the level of learning that we're trying to get clients to to make those decisions in that gray area, um it that takes time, you know, and that time is like uncomfortable for people, especially with programs where like results and transformations and you know, we just which is important, but like also when we just we just like get through things, get through things, teach all the things like I've noticed if you give them too much, like they're they're truly learning nothing.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: They might memorize what something is, but like does that really mean that they know how to do it to create sustainable change for themselves?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what we should want for them, is like sustainable change, not just like, oh, I did this once and I can never do it again.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I have sustainable change and I understand how to do it in a way that works for me.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that takes time, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna take some time and it's gonna take some space.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: And when we're filling that space with more, we're keeping them from that really deep and powerful transformation.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that is so powerful.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Deep learning takes time.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think you're right.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much pressure to like get the testimonials and get the big wins.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're right, that kind of to reach someone at like, I taught you how to fish, there's no shortcutting that, you know, that takes that takes a lot of work on a lot of levels intellectually, you know, like who you are as a person.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: The slowest.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can't rush that, you know, you can't logic, you can't logic and think your way through it, you just have to allow it.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that can be frustrating when you're wanting to have quick wins and big thing testimonials on your website.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I really appreciate that.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting here wondering is the antidote to that the idea that you brought up earlier, which is objectives-based learning?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's another thing that I think is very obvious, but it does not come obvious for a lot of people.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I see, can you talk a little bit more about what that is and how you could use that to prevent yourself from overdelivering?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, and it kind of like the framework I use.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, we start with the framework.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, we can't create objectives without having like a very solid framework.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, for your framework, the best thing to look at there, how many problems are you solving?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how many problems are you solving?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: If you have a marketing or a business program where you are wanting them to create an offer and launch a launch an offer, those are two different problems.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you are already setting yourself up for some chaos because you are asking them to do two different things at the same time as a beginner business owner, which we all know is beginner business owners, it's a lot, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: You are dealing with a lot.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, first advice make sure that you are just solving one problem, which can be challenging because a lot of people are more eager to buy and invest in this big program where I'm gonna solve all of your problems.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um but you know, we gotta do what we gotta do.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, one problem, and then from there, that is when I create objectives.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: So objective writing is like a big long thing, but really like each week should have an objective about or each module or however it's laid out should have an objective of like how are we going to reach that goal?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell my clients if what you're adding doesn't align with the objective or it doesn't align with the goal, do not put it in your program.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you're thinking about adding that extra module, how does it align with the objective?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: How does it align with the transformation?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: If you can't justify that, do not put it in.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm all for like bonuses, like bonuses are fun.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Who doesn't love a little bonus, right?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: One to three bonuses, but out even the bonuses should help them with the objective and should help them with the goal.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't waste people's time.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Adults are so busy.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's another thing that makes it challenging for us is like kids, your job is to learn.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna sit your butt in that chair and you are learning today.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Adults have jobs, we have families, we have partners, we have a life.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, don't waste people's time.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's already gonna be challenging enough for them.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Don't waste their time, allow it to be simple.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something I tell my clients and my community all the time let it be simple.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: What's simple for you and what's simple for your ideal client is not gonna be the same.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna think your program is boring and that it's too simple and it's not enough, and your ideal client's gonna get it, and their little brains are gonna be blown because they're gonna be like, what is this?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, does that make sense?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Objective writing is like a huge beast.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's a huge beast.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's really challenging.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: But that's something that I think can really help people just like simplify, like fix one problem.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: If it doesn't help them fix that problem, no matter how much you want to, it's probably not a good idea to add.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I feel pretty called out.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I should maybe go and take a look at my own shit of just like am I adding shit that is just unnecessary?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the hardest thing, and obviously I'm coming from just like an SEO perspective, there's just so many fucking nuances that kind of come into like, okay, well, you have to think about this, but also this, but also you have to think about this.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just, it feels overwhelming, especially when in the online space, I'm not seeing the same people over and over.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't have the same classroom for a year.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not tracking progress from the exact same people that are starting from the exact same place over and over and over again.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like somebody might be a little bit more well-versed in SEO, or some people are like, Well, I just started my online business an hour ago.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it they're like, I don't know how to create an invoice.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh fuck, I can't teach you SEO.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can't even create an invoice.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's just it's that fact of like, how can we truly make our program or whatever, just like our content in general specific to the people because that's when it's going to be the most powerful, I'm assuming is like when we know, and I mean, like, we know this from the online business world, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, how can we get to know our people and allow that space for the feedback?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's truly when we're able to see our own blind spots.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it feels unsafe in the beginning to ask for feedback.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have to ask for feedback, like, and then what?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then what do I do with this feedback?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Does that mean that my course is shit and then I should just scrap it and like I'm not good enough at this?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, I guess what would be maybe your advice or whatever for it's like getting feedback from clients or people that have taken the program.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do we use that to make our shit better?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think first like reframing it is like their feedback says nothing about you and how much you know about the topic.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: Their feedback is information for you to better connect to them.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something with before I open feedback that I always like ground myself in is like, this says nothing about you.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, this is a way for you to better understand how to take what you're teaching and make it stick with them better.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the first thing I do.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also a big fan of not always making changes on feedback, which is kind of an unpopular opinion.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I ask myself the same thing.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: Does that feedback help them reach better reach their ending point?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: If it does, absolutely I will add it.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Here's your resource, here's the extra video.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: If it doesn't, thank you for your time.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's about as far as we go there.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: That I've had I've seen lots of people in the past, like with programs that I've been a part of, be like, I want this, I want this.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's not part of the transformation that we're promising over here.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's okay, as you know, like it like just an authority over what you do.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay for you to be like, that feedback is not applicable because I know that a little bit better than you do.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: And if I would have taught that, you would have been confused.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if I would have taught that, it would have taken away from your transformation.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: But then I've gotten some feedback.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, damn, that's a good point.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was here's your resource for that.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, thank you so much.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think reframing it first off, like it's not personal.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I have gotten feedback before that is personal, and I'm just like, delete, we're done with that.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it most of the time, like when you have really great clients, they're just trying to like help you better understand like what would stick, what was some disconnect.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: So the next time you teach it, it's even better, right?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's the only that's the only way to get better at teaching is you just teach and teach and teach and teach over and over and over.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then after that, having the authority to be like that feedback warrants change.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: That feedback does not warrant change.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not changing anything because of what one person said.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not here to please people.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: If you want me to please you, you need to go invest in another program.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, does that help?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the boundaries are very empowering.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad that we have this recorded.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I'm glad that we have this recorded so that if I'm fucking digging myself into a route, all that I can come and be like, listen to Taylor's mic drop moment on feedback.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm literally sitting here, like, this is can be applied to so many situations.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Your mindset is rock solid.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone who really struggles with conflating my value and my worth into work, it is very painful to get feedback.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of adults have experienced that.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love what you're saying about like the reframe of this has nothing to do with my value.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with how valuable I am as a human, as a professional, as a whatever.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is somebody's opinion that I get to choose what I do with.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it may be awesome, I it may be shit, and I get to choose, right?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is such a powerful reframe and not slipping into the people pleaser, which I know a lot of us do.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's so challenging.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's so hard.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's not fun.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think like there have definitely been moments like I've gotten feedback and I voxer my coach.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh my God, I am the worst.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it affects everybody.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody says it doesn't affect them at all, I don't believe that, especially when we really care about what we're it's like it's very vulnerable to educate and to put yourself out there and um to put your methods out there, you know, like it's a lot.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I definitely have had times in the classroom and in um the online space where I've gotten feedback that absolutely like broke me.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I just think that's something that you have to work on as an educator.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: And something I do too that helps me is I ask for feedback in my programs all the time, on the calls, like right in the moment.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do not wait until seven weeks to tell me how you feel.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: If there is a problem right up front, let's address it right now.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, right now.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: Do not don't, because I think that's another thing that kind of like blindsides people is the person acts happy the whole program, yeah, and then you're just like, whoa, I didn't, you know, I didn't know that there was something going on.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's also our job as educators to make space for that feedback and to really set a culture of like honesty is encouraged.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: You cannot expect people to give you feedback, but create a culture of like, I'm the only one talking in this program.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so it goes both ways.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: You definitely have to create that culture of like honesty is valued here, you're gonna get it from me, and I expect to get it from you when I ask.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: And if it comes up later, I expect to know.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, please, like, I hate the blind side.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: That I think that's the thing that throws people off the most.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because then their emotions like build over time, and then it comes across like probably a lot more harsh than it actually was.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's one expecting clients to give feedback often because education should always be feedback, it should be an ongoing conversation and feedback constantly.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: And also as an educator, creating a culture where like that is legitimately courage.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, please, like it helps me educate you better.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Please, please, please give it to me.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: And just making space and that culture where people do not feel scared to do so.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like learning is collaborative, and it's also like so collaborative, but we've never learned that.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know, you know what I mean?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just thinking about like we've learned that learning was a hierarchy.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: But learning is actually collaborative.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm having some light bulb moments that I didn't realize that I would have on this.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, like, also just like me as I create YouTube videos, right?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: I used to like, especially in the beginning, I'm getting a lot better with it now, but like I used to shame myself if I didn't remember every side note for hitting everybody's like anticipated question and situation and like how to do something in a YouTube video.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm just like, I don't fucking know where you're starting from.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm creating a video because like this is how you do it.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm reframing it to be like, if you have a question, what a beautiful invitation for me to create a brand new YouTube video that week.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it is a collaboration, and I like like I'm still what really stuck through so far for me is like learning is a shared responsibility.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that should be put on a billboard in fucking every city because it's true.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like we do have some people that come into courses or programs that like sit back and like they're, you know, in their warm fuzzy pajamas and they're sitting there, like, teach me, teach me, fool.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it's yeah, and I'm gonna get it and make a thousand dollars in the next 24 hours.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's it should be an equal amount of work for the educator and for the student.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's something I tell my clients, like, be blunt about on your sales, you know, like you need to let people know like this is the type of like this is where you need to be at in life for you to go through this.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's gonna take time, it's gonna take energy, it's gonna take effort.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: We can have structures in place, like shit might happen.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what we have in place for you for that.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: But like it really does need to be like cooperative and we need to be working together to help you.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to be part of that too.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell people like, if this isn't the time, that's okay.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: I still love you, stay in the community, hang out.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: When you're good, this offer will be open.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: But like, I just care so much about your results that I want to be honest with you.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is what I expect from you.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: What a beautiful question as a consumer.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have the space to show up and to take on your part of the responsibility?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like before you join a new course or a new program that you're having some big expectation on, are you willing to honestly put in the work and what would that look like?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's just a really great, a really great question for reflection before pulling out your credit card.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, and I always taught, like, I've told people before there is there was a time when I invested in a program.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was like really excited for it, and like shit hit the fan and I was not able to complete it.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell people, like, that's okay too, you know, like there is so much life and so much nuance happening as adults.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we're gonna have to be able to give ourselves also like that, you know, like boundary of like you need to show up and you need to be here.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I understand that you're a human.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_03: I understand that life is going to happen, and here's how we can make space for that.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: If that happens, I've had clients and programs, like I've just let go.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_03: Their life just like hit the fan.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't hire people, I don't, I don't have people come into my programs that I can't trust.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, like I trust you.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: And if that's really happening, here's a refund and you can go take care of whatever you need to take care of.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't mind doing that, you know.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think everybody has their own boundaries on how they handle those situations, and that's so nuanced, and that's totally okay.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like also another gray area of finding I have high expectations for you if you're in this container, and also I'm going to make it where if life happens, we can figure that out.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to come to me because I care about you as a human too.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: Lots of gray areas there, which I think looks different for how everybody solves that.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think just being upfront about it is the best way.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if people come in, they know this is what I expect.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um that's really powerful.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my brain always goes to sales and marketing, just like because that's the way it's wired.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: But you've brought up a couple of times, and I've been thinking, you know, what is your advice?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's something about setting expectations for students on the front and your sales and your marketing on your landing pages.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I've heard stories of um unclear expectations were set.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a real hypey, you know, there wasn't really a lot promised.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then students get in expecting.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when it they don't get what they want, things can fall apart.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what advice would you give us as we're thinking about like writing our sales pages or like making Instagram posts to promote?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what can we do to really align those expectations?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I always tell people, like, you should not be creating sales stuff until you have really narrowed down your at least base, like this is my framework and this is what I this is what I need for my clients for them to be successful.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I always have my clients think like, what hours are we looking at during the week?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_03: What's their homework assignments going to look like?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how long will that take them?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what support will they have or not have?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like taking away support is just as strategic as giving it sometimes, um, depending on where your client is at, like in their journey.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just getting really clear on like what kind of person do you need?
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for me, I always tell my clients, I need somebody who can be honest.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: I need somebody for me, showing up to the calls is a non-negotiable because I like teaching live.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to be able to make the live calls at these times on these dates.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_03: I have that all planned out.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you need to be able to complete the homework.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is gonna be the turnaround time.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, for me, community like the community thing in between is optional because I like giving them space to think and absorb and do their homework and bring it to the next call.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, really just planning out like what are the details of this?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what would you expect of your client?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: What qualities would you need them to have?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've told clients straight up, like, this is gonna be an intense program.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: We're getting this done in three days.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be accelerated, but you're gonna be done in three days.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're gonna show up, you need to make sure mentally you can be there prepared to learn.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say learn, I mean sitting on the call, taking notes.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: For me, we do a whole instructional flow.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: So we're doing guided practice activities, like they need to be actively involved.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, really just thinking about like what do they need to do when they show up to the call?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: How are they gonna complete their homework?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: How long will that homework take them?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how long would watching the modules take them and being upfront about it?
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people think that's too much information, but I've noticed the buyer market has shifted so much recently.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, people want to know.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know exactly what I'm getting into.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that means maybe making your launch periods a little bit longer.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe this like accelerated, like you have a week to join this three-month program.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is a week gonna be enough time for them to like get all the information and sit on it, make sure that it's good for them.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think maybe how we sell is probably gonna have to change.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a salesperson, but as a business owner, I believe that how we're gonna have to sell is going to eventually change to give people time to get the information that they truly need to show up the way that we want them to show up.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's fascinating, like when watching how things shift, especially just like from a business perspective and like how consumers are buying.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like when I first got into the online space, it was very much like long sales pages.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only way to fucking do it.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then people revolted against that, went to the opposite side of the spectrum, and then they're like, pay to be in my energy.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna dabble, like drip this out, and then like this is what it's called.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: Pay me$500 right now before even knowing anything.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then everybody was doing it because it was like hype marketing, and then people are getting burned from that.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're like, yo, where's your long ass sales page?
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because your girl is a fact finder.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I would like to, me specifically, like every time that I'm creating sales shit, I'm giving more details than necessary because it's like me as a consumer, I need details.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: I need to know the facts of things before I'm jumping in, unless it's literally three dollars.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, sure, yeah, here's my three, it's basically free.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think just giving that information up front, and I try to give my clients time.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not gonna like we do have a deadline.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we are gonna have to stop this at some point because eventually we're gonna have to start the program.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I, for me personally, like, I don't accept people a week before, so I can give myself a whole week to like send out stuff to my clients, um, ask them some like fun questions about themselves so I can like put it into my slides for my teaching, like make it a little bit more personal for them.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, there is a deadline, but leading up to that deadline, I'm gonna be very just as open as I possibly can be about what you can expect.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that has been so good for me with my programs.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's not like a hundred people are in them, but the people that are in them, like we get shit done.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: And you're talking about like the most amazing clients, but I think it helps because they knew exactly what they were getting into and they had the space to do it, you know?
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I would rather serve people like that all day than a hundred people where only like 10 of them show up to the calls and see a transformation, like a good transformation and feel great leaving.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think there's a lot of hype around like let's see how many people we can get.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: And my perspective is always like, let's see how many people we can deeply serve.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's see how many people we can deeply impact.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's gonna make more impact than serving a hundred people on the call.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: And let's like really take the time for those people to really just like get the very most out of it.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: Judging from Shay's facial expressions, you're this is like church for Shay.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, yes, yes, yes, I love this.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which there's nothing wrong.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: I've worked in programs that have hundreds of people in them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I think if, you know, like I'm a person, I will probably teach small groups for at least the next year.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: I love small groups.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's much easier for me and my capacity as a mom to just hyper focus on a few people than try to hit everybody.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and like having big groups is okay, but I sometimes have seen that we push so much for those big groups that we're losing like the chance to get like really great clients, you know, and like really reaching very specific people.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then the same business owners are wondering why they're so burnt out and why they hate their business, right?
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's why they hate their programs, it's all they hate their programs because nobody's seeing a transformation, right?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like 25% of the people are showing up to the calls.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just because you have all these numbers does not mean that people are doing it and showing up and seeing what you want.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not all the educators' fault because those people did make an investment, and again, shared responsibility, yeah, right.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Again, a gray area.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many scenarios there, but yeah.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm nodding so hard because I am a salesperson and you're spot on that like the way the market is changing, we're more savvy, we're bombarded.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's bombarded, we are bombarded with marketing constantly.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, online education isn't new anymore.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have frame of reference.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: We've done stuff, we know what to look out for.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you've actually said the word a couple of times, but like really these days with sales, and I think it's just going to get more and more important is this idea of building trust with your client.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so I it's such a breath of fresh air to hear you talking about giving people time to make a buying decision, thinking about if your buyer is ripe for transformation.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: The old approach to selling was like just strong arm and manipulate and psychologically trick as many people as you can into your program.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is if those people are not ripe for transportation or transformation, you're gonna hate your life.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Those people aren't gonna be fun to work with, you know, they're not gonna be happy to be there.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the most powerful thing you can do in your sales is be choosy.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that it with love, but like who are the people that it's like gonna be gasoline on the fire?
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you focus on working with them?
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't really matter the scale, like it that those are the people where it's like sustainable, where it's fulfilling.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but like you're saying, it goes both ways.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: All of this stuff is reciprocal, and I'm like blown away at like how much that keeps coming up.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I I love what you're saying.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're really an example of what I would call like um a human-centered CEO, just the fact that like I've always I know refunds are a touchy subject, but like I'm human about this, and I've always appreciated business owners that can bring that weave that humanity.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I just like love your approach to running a business and how you're thinking about all of this.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so smart and like spot on.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really appreciate what you were saying about like um the responsibility goes both ways.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's on the teacher, it's on the student, and it like literally that's how trust.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you start to research trust, you learn the same thing.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I have to be vulnerable and I have to, it's like I have to give and I have to receive back and forth, back and forth.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how trust is built.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's how trust.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is built in sales that's gonna trust is built with your clients.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's all these little moments, like Brene Brown's marble jars of your idea, like all of these little moments to add trust.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: It all adds up to something really powerful.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like you're saying, the market is changing, and what we can do is be resilient and be listening for feedback, and that's exactly you're you're practicing what you preach.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're like the market's changing, I'm listening, and like this is how we're gonna adapt.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I just really appreciate the the example that you're being in the world as like a business leader, but obviously the work you're doing.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have one really weird specific question I'd love to touch on.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've been curious, you know, as I'm thinking about I love teaching and creating my own, I love designing uh curriculum.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's I think designing and planning a lesson is like the most fun.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about for myself what I could do.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I've gone back and forth quite a bit on live learning versus recorded learning.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I just heard you say something interesting about live learning.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us about what are your thoughts on the two?
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or if there's more than two, that was like something I created.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you love live learning?
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: I just love live learning because I think that live feedback is just so valuable.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: Passive, I mean, business-wise, like I have a course, it's great.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_03: But if anybody tells you that it's passive forever, like you never have to look at it again, they're lying because you're still having to take some sort of feedback and change it over time so that it's still sticking with people, right?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I love live learning, one, because it's as close as I can get to being in a classroom again without being in a classroom.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_03: But just like I feel like every time I teach it, I get better.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I love about teaching is like Topsies program, for example, like how I taught in that first time versus my um teaching that I did for them last week.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like night and day.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I just love like how every time I teach and I get that feedback, I I learn something new from people, which makes me a better teacher.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I love live.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: I just love that constant like feedback and how people are receiving things.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_03: I love when I can plan something and it sticks with somebody, and I'm like, yes, I knew it.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just I just love getting better.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think um, you know, like a huge thing with education is just like growth.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that is something that adults really struggle with, is like, we can still change.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: I know when I what I believed as a beachbody coach and what I believe now as a business owner is night and day.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really proud of that.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think we need to like embrace growth a little bit more in the online space.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm kind of weary of people that don't grow.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you think the same as you did three years ago.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's concerning to me.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think we need to embrace that more.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: I know when I was a beachbody coach, I'm not proud of this, but I definitely did it.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like I did that fear manipulation marketing.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_03: Did I know that's what I was doing at the time?
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: But once I learned I was doing it, I was like, and we're done with that.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_03: No clue what I'm gonna do, but we're gonna change.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I just have so much respect for people that do that.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: I have like the most insane amount of respect for people that like learn something new and they're like, wow, I'm gonna do something different.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_03: Don't know what I'm gonna do yet, but that's obviously not it.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I love about teaching, specifically live teaching, is like you have to grow every time.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're doing it correctly, it's always gonna get better because of that collaborative feedback stuff.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: I as a business owner, I love passive because it makes my life a little easier with making money.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_03: But even then, like passive takes work, and you still like every time I teach frameworks and I change something, I like make a note like we're gonna have to go change the course here soon.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go, because I just found another way to do it better.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, did that answer your question, Shay?
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, be proud, be proud of your pivots.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's like my point.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Be in be proud of those changes.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: How many times do we hear, never change your Instagram bio, show up consistently forever?
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what professionals do.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I respect the people that are learning and growing and sharing that with people much more than those set in stone, that set in stone rigid style.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I again, another lovely you've blessed us with so many lovely reframes.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just it's it's hard as an adult to feel like you can grow and make mistakes.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_03: And something I'm big on in my trainings, like I purposely make mistakes.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, usually there's one in there anyway.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes I don't even have to try, like a slide's wrong.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have a typo.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I really try to model for my students like you love this program, and I definitely messed up on like 10 slides the past three days.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, like perfection does not equal like a good transform, you know, like it doesn't have to be perfect.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: It does not have to be perfect for them to still see, it just has to be intentional.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I'm saying.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: I can't hit perfection, but I can hit intentionality.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I that's a that's a mark I can hit.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just allowing education to be messy and like still charging high ticket for it.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I charge high ticket for all of my offers because what I have to offer is insanely valuable, and that price does not mean you're investing in me to be perfect.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_03: I can be intentional, and you will feel the like that's the biggest feedback I had for my biggest pro my last program.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, was like the intentionality.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, that's what good educators do because we are intentional as fuck.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, but like don't don't stress about being perfect and like still charge high ticket.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm such a fan of high ticket pricing.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Huge fan.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, not for everybody.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's another great area of pricing.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I know for me, like, I'm gonna charge high ticket and I'm gonna also model imperfection so you as an educator can see that you can be imperfect and still be an amazing educator.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love this.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love this conversation.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's just it's so much more empowering than I thought that we were ever gonna get.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was just like, yeah, we're gonna dive into like the best practices of like how adults learn and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And now we're just like, you can fucking get it.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can get it, you can do whatever you want to, and you can balance everything because you're a boss.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're just building everybody else.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really big on that right now.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like leaving the classroom, like I felt like shit about myself every day for about four years.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the past few months, I kind of hit a point where I was just like, fuck this.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I am really good at my job, and I'm really, really fucking tired of people telling me that I'm not.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really over it.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like lawmakers, politicians, people in my district, like I'm over it.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm absolutely over it.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like educators have just been beat down for so long that I'm just like, nope.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_03: We can care about people and we can love our students, and also stand up for ourselves and stand up for our profession and stand up for um our expertise and what we know at the same time.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_03: We can do that at the exact same time.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we're not gonna choose over here, we're gonna do both.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I see that a lot in the online space where people just feel like beat down by their educational offers instead of like standing firm and like this is what I know, and I'm not budging on it, and I'm gonna charge high ticket for it, and you're gonna pay me and you're gonna see an amazing transformation.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's the kind of energy that I would like educators to start having.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it's something I just think with my experience in the public school world that I'm just like really fired up about right now.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I'm just over it.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me sad.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me sad to see so many great people and so many talented educators constantly feel like shit about themselves.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Just knowing me.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think you're shining light on, you know, I don't know if it's globally, but certainly nationally, there is a very large exodus of teachers leaving the profession.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's because y'all are the hardest working humans, and you're consistently told in many ways that what you do is not valuable over and over and over again.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it is the biggest like crack of shit.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I am seeing so many teachers get in the online space and just fucking kill it in all kinds of ways.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: All they're so they're resilient, they're noticing problems, they're like adaptable, they're thinking on their feet, they're hard workers, and like no wonder y'all are so like you've had to work with so little resources and like kill it because you love the so you found a fucking way, and so like, of course, those skills translate into other spaces, and like I'm not making a commentary about like obviously there's some bigger, massive structural things that need to shift because I don't think it's wonderful that all these insanely talented people are leaving.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to stand up for your value.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think so many teachers are just hearing that story.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm worth it.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I don't know if it's worthless, but like I'm not valuable enough.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just should do it for the kids.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't deserve the pay, like it should be enough just for the children, right?
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like that is such a crack of shit again.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, y'all are just insanely talented, such hard workers.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: You see all those funny TikToks and things online about like teachers are spending their whole salaries going to the dollar store to like buy their kids the supplies they need.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like it's such a losing all teachers have to have two, three jobs, like and you guys work harder than anybody else in your day job.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just a losing situation for all these insanely talented people.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I don't know what the solve is, but like I am just feeling so inspired by you.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love hearing that you're like fired up about this and you want to get the word out because I think you're right.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have teachers in my direct family, so I see like how hard it is, but like I don't think people really know the extent of just like how undervalued and how insanely important y'all are to like a functioning society.
• 1:16:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my soccer.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_03: If we all left, if we all left, there'd be nothing.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like people treat us like we are helpless and that we're stuck.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's something I've learned the past few months in the process of like leaving my school.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you're in trouble without me.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you treated me like shit, you know, the system.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Not I'm not talking about like certain people, like the system has continually treated us like shit.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you're nothing without me.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if I'm not there, that little part of the school starts falling apart, you know?
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think it's the same in the online space.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's something I've noticed is like educators in the online space starting to kind of feel the same type of way because of like this is a spicy tape, whatever I'm gonna say it.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, people like paying them and then in return being like, you owe me something because I paid you.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of educators of online space like falling out of love with their programs and their educational offers because that exchange is becoming stressful.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of the same mentality, like, you owe me something.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, absolutely not.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_03: You you owe them what you said that you would deliver, and you owe them an intentional educational experience, but like you do not owe them whatever they want just because they gave you X amount of dollars.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm feeling that same, like, that's how I felt as an educator in the public school is like I owe everybody everything to the point where I don't even know who I am anymore.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I see that a lot in the online space too, where people are actually shying away from educational offers because they're like, I don't want to deal with that.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like it went from again the pendulum of like everybody's gonna have a program to like everybody doesn't have a program anymore.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And people are in their programs are discouraging people from creating educational offers when they're so transmedia.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_02: People are like, don't create educational content.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I remember I was stuck in the sauce a couple months ago where I was like, nope, can't create educational content anymore because of X, Y, and Z.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I remember the universe fucking slapping me in the face, and I was like, Yo, my favorite part, I fucking love creating content.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: My YouTube channel, just like helpful little tips on my blog and like my Instagram and whatever.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I thrive at teaching like strategy and just like little tips and analogies and ways of thinking about things, and it's like what a sad world it would be if everybody stopped creating when they actually liked creating.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And this isn't to say like you have to create educational content, but it always comes back to what the fuck is your zone of genius?
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_02: What comes natural to you?
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_02: What is your innate abilities that also feel fun and feel like flow?
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because we need all of it.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_02: We do.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only way that society in this world is going to move forward is if everybody brings their little juice of magic into the crock pot and we can fucking stir together and let it simmer.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I definitely think not everybody is meant to or wants to have an educational offer.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's great.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think that honesty with yourself is gonna save you so much time and energy and despair.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think I know some people like they are gonna be mentors the rest of their lives.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're like, I will never, ever, ever touch an educational offer.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I think that's great.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I love that for you.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_03: But there are some people that are really passionate about educating who have just a desire to impact more at the same time, um, that are just shying away from it, or they're thinking about getting rid of their group program or just like scrapping the whole thing.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really big on like, hey, why don't you let me come in and let's talk about this real quick because you're doing a really good job.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's just some things that we can make it better that make it easier on you and also better for your client.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like a true education, in my opinion, should be like both people are being served highly at the same time.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that's doable.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what what a beautiful segue into the freebie that you have.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us about it?
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so my freebie is curriculum that connects, and it's taking um one learning psychology, and it's teaching you how to make curriculum based on that learning psychology.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the learning psychology kind of gives you just some insight.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_03: I always tell people like this is not the learning side, like there are so many theories out there.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's just one that every time I feel like I've taught it, people really just like relate to and they really like it.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just kind of easy to grasp onto.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_03: So you just take the learning psychology and then it gives you specific examples of what you can do or say in your curriculum to hit all six levels of the learning psychology.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just to help you better connect with where your clients are at.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's really hard to teach people when you don't understand how they're even learning.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: So this kind of gives you some insight on like what your clients are going through as they're learning, and then what can you say or do to hit what they're going through?
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds genius.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm about to go download it now.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna put yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm yeah, all already sold.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we're gonna put the link to that in the um show notes below.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then we do have a question that we ask every human on the podcast.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_02: What's been sparking your curiosity lately?
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a good question.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, like I haven't really had a lot of capacity to be curious about anything in the past two months with leaving my job.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think some like space, even just I've it's only been four days since being out of the classroom.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think space has been really good for me to kind of start putting just like kind of reflecting on my time as an educator and like what I can create in the online space to like address some of those things.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_03: So my answer is space.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't had space in a long time.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that answer.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we think that space is like the foundational need for like, I don't know, like creativity solving problems, literally any kind of growth in any direction.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, can you let our listeners know where they can find and connect with you?
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_03: So if you join the freebie, I always like to tell people that does put you on my email list.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_03: My email list is where I'm the most honest, blunt person, but you can grab the freebie and subscribe from the email list.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just like to be up front about that because I hate joining freebies and I'm like, oh, now I'm getting emails every week.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one way to connect with me is through my email list.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm going through a huge rebrand right now, so that's super exciting.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_03: So the most surefire way is at my Instagram um at taut by Tay underscore.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's where all the new stuff when I figure my life out will start being pushed out.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_03: So those are gonna be the two best ways.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_02: We will put the links to all of that in the show notes below.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I think we're ready to close this episode down.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you guys enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with somebody that you think would love it.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Screenshot it, share it on social media, tag us.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if something really popped out to you, totally DM us, any of us.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_02: We love connecting with you guys.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that's all thank you all so much.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're good.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're good.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was a joy.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, thank you so much for listening to all of y'all and for your continued support.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't yet, subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review so we can all continue to grow together.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, remember that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next episode.