Latest / None of Your Business Podcast / Addicted to love with Sony Perlman LMSW

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Addicted to love with Sony Perlman LMSW · None of Your Business Podcast

• 0:00
  Validation addiction is the biggest addiction.
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  What's validation? Validation is that you love me.
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  I mean, if I could get you to love me and be impressed with
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  me, then I'd get my fix. That's the biggest addiction.
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  None of your business, Oshi, None of your.
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  Business Michael, It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted
• 0:21
  by Michael Anoshi. Welcome back everybody to the
• 0:26
  None of Your Business podcast. We are looking forward to this
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  amazing upcoming episode with none other than Sonny Perlman.
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  Sonny, you don't need an introduction to many people, but
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  unfortunately, Ushi here doesn't know you.
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  So we're going to start off with an introduction.
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  But before I do, please don't forget to like, subscribe,
• 0:45
  comment and help us with our algorithms and get our message
• 0:49
  out there of growth both personally and professionally.
• 0:52
  We're loving what we're doing and we hope you're enjoying it
• 0:54
  too. We love your feedback too, so
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  please keep it coming Ushi. What do you know about?
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  Addictions. Well, first of all, before
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  addictions, I have heard of Sonny Perlman before.
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  Oh OK, so I heard his name. You don't know him.
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  I never met him before, so this is the first time I meet him and
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  I'm excited to get to know him because I've heard good things.
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  And what do I know about addictions?
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  I think we all know something about addictions.
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  I think every person can resonate at some extent with an
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  addiction. Everybody has some type of
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  addiction. I got my addictions, some good,
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  some bad, mostly bad. I don't think it's ever good to
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  be addicted to anything, right? Even a good thing, too much of a
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  good thing is never good. So addictions probably handicaps
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  a lot of people. It probably, I imagine, ruins
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  people's lives when they can't get away from something that
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  they should not be doing. So it becomes very difficult.
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  But I understand it. There's a lot of help out there
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  and there's always a lot of support.
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  And this is what I want to learn about.
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  I want to learn about what Sonny does and you know, who he comes
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  across and what his model is when he comes across it.
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  Like how do you tackle it? How do you, how do you really
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  remedy somebody that's going through any addiction?
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  Just so you know, before we begin, I'm going to say it, I'm
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  going to own up to it. I think I am very susceptible to
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  addiction more than a lot of people because I'm impulsive and
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  I just, you know, I get, I'm very passionate, right?
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  So I get into something and I, I just go all the way full
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  throttle and I find myself like not being able to stop.
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  It's very hard for me to stop. So I think that I'm a candidate
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  for addiction and I think a lot of people are like that too.
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  Everybody to their own to their own levels.
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  But it's something that we have to be open about.
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  We have to be honest about. Otherwise it's going to be come
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  worse, it's going to escalate. So this is a great topic.
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  I think a lot of people are going to really take something
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  away from this. I know I'm looking forward to.
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  It, I'm going to say just that from my personal experience,
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  from a professional standpoint, you know, a lot of people have
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  told me in the past, hey Michael, you know, you're the
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  411 for 911, which would mean in our community that if someone
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  needs emergency help, like something's happening.
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  Like I know the head of RCCS, I know the head of, you know,
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  Bickerholem, I know the head of certain organizations.
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  If you need to get a hold of them, you know, you can contact
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  me and I know exactly who to go to.
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  So I I I pride myself in knowing who to go to for what
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  immediately. Yeah, a good resource.
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  Exactly, when it comes to teenage or adult addictions, the
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  first and last person that I go to is Sonny Perlman and I, I'm
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  going to tell you a little bit about my experience with it, but
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  first I'm going to tell you Sonny, welcome to the program.
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  Thank you. Very excited to be here.
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  It's good to have you here and I, I just first want to say I
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  met Sani went for those of you that haven't listened till now,
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  I was in Israel from the age of 14 till around 20.
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  So I spent most of my high school years in Israel, on the
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  streets of Israel. And being on the streets of
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  Israel 14, I was, you know, hanging out in Ben Yehuda like a
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  good 14 year old does. And I was part of the of the
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  Narayakov faction. OK.
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  So for those of you that didn't grow up during that time,
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  Narayakov and Nevaeh, the two most popular schools in
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  Jerusalem at the time for kids, I guess we'll call it troubled.
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  I don't know guys who need more attention, right?
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  Is that a good way to call? It well, we used to say the
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  difference between Nayakov and Navey is Nayakov guys were just
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  too scared to tell their parents they want to go to Navey.
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  OK, I'll, I'll take that in the chin.
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  And I will tell you, though, that the Navey guys were scary
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  mofos. Yeah, they were scary.
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  I'm talking about like you had guys from California who were
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  like coming from a family of ghi arm, like, you know, or
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  balchovas and like big guys and guys that are used to like
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  having guns in their closets and, you know, walking around
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  with brass knuckles. And there was a famous this
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  thing and back in the day when I was 14, I think you were, you're
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  a year or two older than me, right?
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  You were. Like, I think we're exactly the
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  same, OK? So we were both hanging out in
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  high school years in Israel, and I'll never forget there was a
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  fight in Ben Yehuda. And Sonny, you remember this
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  because every night there was a fight and the fight mostly was
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  between Nariakov and Navey. And you would scream hip, hip,
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  Navey. And then Navey, Old and Avey
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  boys would come down and they would fight.
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  And there I met Sonny. I think that was the first time
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  I ever met. You in a fight?
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  During a fight, we didn't get arrested, but our friends sure
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  did. And and then we and we first met
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  and you ended up marrying a cousin of mine.
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  You ended up being a neighbor of ours.
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  You ended up being on the board of directors of a girls teens
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  program in Rockland County that we started with Alex Chertok and
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  Bella, his wife. Amazing people.
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  It's the first ever and only drop in Center for girls in
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  Rockland County. You know, the Sochi, you know,
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  you know about this, the volleyball tournament that we do
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  every year for it. It's amazing.
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  So that's my background of Sani. But we more importantly on AI
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  would say average monthly basis, I get a call from a parent or an
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  adult that's telling me I'm dealing with an emergency
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  addiction issue. I don't know what to do.
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  I, I need help. And I say to them, well, do you
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  need to call 911 or do you have time to deal with this that you
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  know normally? And you know who taught me how
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  to say that? Sonny?
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  He taught me how to say that. Do you need to call 911?
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  Because if you need to call 911, call 911.
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  Nothing has to happen this minute.
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  Take it easy, right? Well, the line is there is no
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  crisis and for everything else, call 911.
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  We don't deal with this crisis because if you deal with selling
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  this crisis, you're going to make a million mistakes.
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  But there are sometimes an emergency where you have to call
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  911. So if you're not calling 911, if
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  you want to talk to me, we're not dealing with like it's a
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  crisis that's the same. It's amazing.
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  And I went on, I was a teenager and I was a mentor at the age of
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  20 when I came back to Brooklyn and I decided to spend some time
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  to give back to the community and I became a mentor and a
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  place called Our Place. And our place in Brooklyn is the
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  number one, the founding. It's like the founding fathers
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  of teens at risk or, you know, the challenges we have with the
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  youth. And lo and behold, Sonny was
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  running the place at such a young age.
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  He was running our place. I think you're one of the
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  founders of our place together with the people.
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  You know, we can. Yeah, you can.
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  You came in a little later, but without you, there'd be no our
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  place. And one of the stories that
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  resonates with me and I remember, and I have to end with
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  this and take it to you, Sonny, is that there was a time that I
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  was walking to our place, and this is a place where in a
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  basement, there's a hundred kids a night.
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  And they all came for one thing and one thing only, the food,
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  right? The food, they came for the
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  food. And but these kids were coming
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  with knives. These kids were coming with
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  drugs. Some of them were drug dealers.
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  One of them dealt drugs right outside of Avenue M&E 16th,
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  wherever it was on the corner, it was his turf.
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  And I remember there was a challenge and the challenge was
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  what are we doing with this kid that's dealing?
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  And they orchestrated a plan. And, you know, I hope we could
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  share this. I'm not going to share any
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  names, but the staff together orchestrated a plan that we're
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  going to get a big dude that like, you know who we know that
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  works with us in security or something.
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  Do you remember the story at all?
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  I. Think I remember the story.
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  And we're going to make believe that he's the turf owner of this
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  corner and he's going to take the kid and throw him up and get
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  to the fence, say stop dealing to my and threaten his life.
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  That's the way we did it in the 90s.
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  I remember the guy's name who we called.
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  His name was Angel. Tell us the story.
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  I don't know the whole story. What's your version?
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  There's a couple different versions, but basically it was a
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  kid who was kind of going down that path and we thought we
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  could stop him. Like he wasn't like fully in and
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  then we got Angel to like terrify him and like basically
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  say you got the best life in the world.
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  Like what are you doing? Like, and this is my spot.
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  You can't use it. And now like guys, a truck
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  driver, you know, I don't know if it works.
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  Sonny, that's my background of you.
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  You are a genius. I want to say you are the king
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  when it comes to drug addiction for teens and adults.
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  Every time I refer someone to you, which is on average a
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  monthly basis, I follow up all the way through and I've seen
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  your methods work. I remember you telling me if you
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  don't get, if you don't let go of all addictions, you can
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  forget it. You got to let go over there.
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  And, and we had battles and we went through this process for
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  years. I, I want to go right into it,
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  Sonny, and ask you, can you explain to me what it means?
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  What you said a minute ago where we thought we could save him.
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  At what age, at what point can you look at a kid and say, I
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  could still save him? You know, because a lot of times
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  I hear is that no, no, no, it has to come from the kid.
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  You just got to show love. It's got to come from the kid.
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  Is there a certain turning point like you mentioned in that
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  story? I think you got a couple of
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  questions here at once, but let me just first say I'm really,
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  it's a pleasure to be here. I'm going to say that.
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  I will say that I thought you called me on to talk about my
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  marriage because that's what I'm the best at.
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  So I thought that's what I was going.
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  I'm like addiction. No, what do I know?
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  But no, I'm kidding. I know a lot about addiction.
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  But I did want to say publicly that I'm very into my wife.
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  That's for you. I'm loving that.
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  I'm gonna stop him. Oh, she's looking at you like
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  you're crazy. Yeah, I'm a.
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  Little, I want to tell you, I'm a little confused, Sonny, you
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  know, I used to dive in by Rabbi Weiss in Staten Island that
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  every Shabbos his speech would end with Shalom bias, with
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  sanctity and peace in your home. There's no podcast that Sonny
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  can do without mentioning his beautiful, amazing wife.
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  My cousin. Yeah, so he he just has a thing
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  about it and he's very like, he's married to this concept.
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  Forget about being married to you, Ellie.
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  He's married to this concept that every day you need to thank
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  your spouse. Every day you need to be bring
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  recognition. Every day you need to talk about
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  it in a positive way. I think he's a he's addicted to
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  his wife. I'm not.
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  Wrong do you do you tell her orphan or only people on podcast
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  heck. Yeah, actually, yeah, all the
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  time. It's very important that you
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  tell her. Deeply into her.
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  Yeah, so even daily, that's fine.
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  That's great. But she should hear it from you
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  personally because, by the way, not enough men do that.
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  And you know, the the women, they don't appreciate it.
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  Like they want you to vocalize it.
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  They want you to say it, so you should.
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  That's a. Beautiful thing.
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  There's a little bit of a stigma with it.
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  I'm sorry. I heard about this already twice
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  this week, so I. Got to say it.
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  People who publicly show affection and love to their
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  wives are usually not happily married.
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  I was holding my wife's hand a year after I was married, and my
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  old rabbi came over to me and he's, he whispered me in my ear.
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  He goes. You don't get enough at home.
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  This was a rabbi who was my Rebbe.
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  OK, he was. He was just giving you a
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  message. Yeah, a message I shouldn't hold
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  my wife's hand. By the way, Michael, you know,
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  public, you don't believe in that.
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  You don't think it's there's a little truth to that.
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  Absolutely not. People who show affection in.
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  Public. No, usually.
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  Maybe. Maybe known the case.
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  Maybe they're doing it wrong. I don't know what to.
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  Tell you this is a known thing. Affection is perfectly OK.
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  Is it yes. How?
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  To what extent, though? Something uncomfortable?
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  There's something inappropriate about doing things in public.
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  What we do on our podcast, by the way, we get into debates.
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  I have no problem and I encourage anyone who's in love
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  with their spouse hold their hand.
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  Let the kids see that mommy and. Daddy is love for each other.
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  That's at home. Let even that's at home.
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  Let even other people appreciate the the the beauty of love
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  between a couple. No, no, we only touch at home.
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  Yes, exactly. Because that's where it belongs.
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  No. And if it's on the streets,
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  quite frankly, it's a little off putting.
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  I don't. And you know what?
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  You know it's you're not, you're not gaining any.
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  Erase that stigma, please. I don't like it at all.
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  Please hold her hand. We're getting off track.
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  Can I ask you a question? Why?
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  Why? You know what I'm saying without
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  Michael yelling I just one second.
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  Why one second? No, I want to hear the logic
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  because it I want to tell you for me, even I even though I
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  love talking about my wife and I'm like excited about it.
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  I know that it's kind of taboo and it's a little weird to do
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  it. And everybody I know would love
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  to find out that I'm full of it. Like, yeah, he's just like they
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  all like, really? Is this you mind?
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  Right, they're rooting. Against they were totally
• 12:37
  rooting against me, but I I made a conscious decision to be like
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  really over the top with this because we're talking about all
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  the bad topics about marriage, divorce, get refusal.
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  We're talking about showing bias issues.
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  Everybody can talk about all the bad stuff.
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  And then you can only hear one podcast where a guy is like, I
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  literally live my life to love my wife like that's my whole
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  life. Beautiful.
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  She is my today I was talking to it with a bunch of guys and I
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  said she is my tether to life. Like without her I I literally
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  drift into a dark abyss like she is everything.
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  I want to tell you why. I want to tell you where I'm.
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  We don't talk about it. So that I made that decision.
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  I realized there's a taboo, but why?
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  Why wouldn't we do? That sure.
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  Let me give you my take on this. So I want to give you an
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  example, OK, there's a famous story about Aceo of I believe it
• 13:28
  was Rolls Royce. I, I don't remember if it was
• 13:30
  Rolls Royce or if it was Lamborghini's, one of these
• 13:32
  exotic companies. And he said that he doesn't
• 13:36
  believe in marketing. He doesn't believe in
• 13:38
  advertising. And they, they, they were really
• 13:41
  like, like prodding him on this. Like, what do you mean marketing
• 13:43
  works? Advertising works.
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  What are you saying you don't believe in marketing?
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  Like, why don't you put an ad on TV and put it out of people to
• 13:49
  see? And his response was, I don't
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  advertise my cars on TV because people who couldn't afford my
• 13:56
  cars don't watch TV. They don't have time to sit and
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  watch TV, right? People who have money don't tell
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  other people how much money they have.
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  They just don't. They don't feel the need to.
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  It's always the people that have something to prove, that have
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  something to show that go out of their way excessively, to
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  showcase a little bit more. They go above and beyond to
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  almost prove a point. Now, that's one part of it.
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  OK. The second part I would say is
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  that there are different ways how you can show real, true
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  affection to the person you love and to the person who it sounds
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  like you're infatuated with. There's a lot of ways to do it
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  and an effective way to do it, and probably the most effective
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  way that she would even appreciate the most is doing it
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  intimately between just the two of you, more than shouting it
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  from the rooftops. And there's 50 people in the
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  audience and you tell her how much in front of them.
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  That actually isn't as meaningful to her if you do it
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  just between the two of you. And it's about how you do.
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  It's about where you go and what you do.
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  That's what's the most important thing.
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  So it goes against everything by doing it in the public, even in
• 14:56
  Iota, even a little bit in public.
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  For what? What are you trying to prove #1
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  why do you even think that's what she wants?
• 15:02
  Why do you even think that's the way she wants you to show
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  affection? So to me, it sends all the wrong
• 15:06
  messages, it's all the wrong signals.
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  And I, I really don't see the merit in even doing it.
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  I don't understand it and it's uncomfortable.
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  And quite frankly, it's your thing.
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  I don't want to see you and your wife relationship on display in
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  front of I don't want to see that and I don't want you to see
• 15:20
  mine. It's something that you, there's
• 15:22
  a reason why it was meant to be kept behind closed doors and
• 15:26
  behind closed curtains. That's how I feel.
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  OK, I hear that. Are you going to let him have it
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  or should I? You.
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  You get that? I.
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  Don't know, I'd like for. You honestly, I hear your point.
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  I I'm not I great point. There are some good points
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  there. I will say, I mean, just on the
• 15:43
  second point first, even though, because if I think the first
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  point's better than the second point, like if you have
• 15:47
  something, you don't have to flaunt it to the world.
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  I don't think I would flaunt it as much if I didn't see
• 15:52
  everybody flaunting everything else.
• 15:53
  Like we always see the bad marriages like they're walking
• 15:56
  around, we see it. We're like, look at their faces.
• 15:58
  They don't want to see each other, sit in an ice cream shop,
• 16:00
  look in the other direction like they we see it all the time.
• 16:03
  Well, it's hard to hide. That's right, they don't want
• 16:05
  you to see it. So but there are good marriages
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  and we hide something that's absolutely beautiful and all the
• 16:10
  world is walking around going like, is there a good marriage?
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  Like all we hear is this guys getting the words like we don't
• 16:16
  hear what a beautiful thing. So that's my argument for for
• 16:20
  kind of why why that first reason was.
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  But that's not you. Showing that there are good
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  marriages out there by holding hands in public is not the way
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  to indicate it. People I have a good marriage
• 16:30
  shows. Other ways my interesting with
• 16:33
  my wife is my very important value for me and that it should
• 16:37
  be in value for the world and it's a very special thing.
• 16:39
  Now every community has different like rules on like
• 16:42
  holding hands and I'm not messing with other communities.
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  It happens to be I'm not in that community that what although
• 16:49
  Square is moving on my block. So they they think I'm really
• 16:52
  weird at this point, but it's all right.
• 16:53
  They moved on my block so they don't have a choice.
• 16:55
  Exactly. They have to adapt, not you.
• 16:57
  They have to adapt. But what I'm, what I'm saying is
• 16:59
  the second point is, is that my wife absolutely loves it when I
• 17:03
  talk about her. She's uncomfortable a little
• 17:05
  bit, but she loves it that I'm telling the world that she's the
• 17:08
  most important thing in the world.
• 17:10
  And if she didn't, she would say, you know, stop.
• 17:12
  And then I would. OK.
• 17:13
  That's the preference. That's you know.
• 17:15
  The second thing is like, how do you know like intimacy?
• 17:18
  Intimacy is different for every person.
• 17:20
  And the fact is that I believe that because I have a public
• 17:23
  platform and I have a podcast, which is called Brainstorm with
• 17:26
  Sonic Perlman, I have a podcast and thank you and I have a
• 17:32
  public forum that I want to spread this idea that marriage
• 17:36
  is incredibly awesome and it is the best thing that ever
• 17:40
  happened to me and probably could be the best thing that
• 17:42
  happens to everybody if they put the right effort into it.
• 17:45
  And I don't think I hear enough people saying that they say
• 17:48
  Shalom I is. It doesn't like I'm not talking
• 17:51
  about someone bias, I'm talking about what you said infatuation.
• 17:54
  I am completely crazy about my wife.
• 17:56
  I know that she is my everything.
• 17:59
  And I think that when someone hears that, I know the guys I
• 18:02
  work with, when they hear that there's a chance that you could
• 18:05
  have a marriage that's beautiful.
• 18:05
  I mean, when I grew up, I didn't know of one good marriage.
• 18:09
  I had one friend who was kids like all my friends.
• 18:11
  I was from a divorce family, so all all the friends had
• 18:15
  divorced. All my friends had divorced
• 18:17
  parents. One had the parents were
• 18:19
  married, but they lived on different floors like they were
• 18:22
  on a different different bedrooms.
• 18:24
  So like we used to make fun of him that his parents were
• 18:26
  married. When I when I was getting
• 18:27
  married, I didn't know I knew of one good marriage like my sister
• 18:31
  like I knew no good marriages. I never heard of it.
• 18:34
  All I knew was bad marriages. And to me, if someone told like
• 18:38
  and then I got hope from watching my sister crazy about
• 18:41
  her husband and I'm like, I would like to pass that hope on
• 18:44
  because I don't see it happening.
• 18:45
  We could have a million podcasts about divorce.
• 18:48
  Michael, you said it last week. You said it last week.
• 18:50
  When you open your eyes and you're you smell New York City,
• 18:54
  you could smell the garbage that somebody put out the night
• 18:56
  before or you could smell the nuts that are being brewed
• 18:58
  around the corner, right? That's what you said.
• 19:00
  It was a great line. And I think it applies to this.
• 19:02
  You know, you were surrounded by just people that didn't have
• 19:05
  great marriages and that's kind of where your vision is is right
• 19:09
  now. But there is a lot out there.
• 19:11
  It doesn't mean because they're not showing it out in public on
• 19:14
  full display that there doesn't exist.
• 19:16
  It does. But I have to tell you a joke
• 19:17
  right on this topic. I must I never do.
• 19:19
  I don't typically say jokes on the podcast.
• 19:20
  We want more actually. But I got to tell you this joke
• 19:22
  because it reminds you it's a really great joke.
• 19:24
  It's a fantastic joke. OK, so it's.
• 19:26
  Such a great. It's a fantastic.
• 19:27
  It's the best joke. You over hyping none of us, no.
• 19:31
  No, no, it's a great joke. Trump.
• 19:32
  No, this is a great joke. I'm going to put the pressure.
• 19:34
  On this joke of all jokes, I'm I'm going to make sure that we
• 19:36
  have like a laugh track. Yeah, yeah, you got to have.
• 19:39
  Laughs one from Seinfeld. Yeah, yeah.
• 19:40
  So there's a certain Hasidas, you know, that they're very
• 19:43
  against showing public affection with your spouse and Gare.
• 19:48
  Gare is that Hasid. They're very against it, like an
• 19:50
  all like they didn't mean let the men and women walk together
• 19:53
  side by side, forget about holding hands.
• 19:55
  So. So this Hasid, you know, this
• 19:56
  Gary Hasid, it's Friday night, just had his meal and he tells
• 19:59
  his wife let's go for a walk. And she says sure, so go
• 20:01
  outside. You know, he grabs her, grabs
• 20:04
  her hand and they they start walking down the street
• 20:06
  romantic, you know, And as they're walking, he notices that
• 20:09
  the Gera Reba himself is also taking the stroll, apparently.
• 20:13
  And he's walking across and he's about to come up to him and he's
• 20:16
  he can't let go of that. He's going to notice that he
• 20:18
  doesn't know what he doesn't know what to say.
• 20:19
  So as he walks, he stops. And then he tells her, Reba,
• 20:22
  Reba, don't worry, it's not my wife.
• 20:26
  Everybody else is like, it's all good, it's all good.
• 20:29
  They really have a problem when it comes to marital public
• 20:33
  display of affection. They're very against it and they
• 20:36
  take it to a crazy line. It's extreme, you know, that's
• 20:40
  extreme. But there is a lot of merit to
• 20:42
  both ways. I wouldn't say one ways right or
• 20:44
  just. To be clear, just to be clear,
• 20:46
  you know those, those people that want to live in that
• 20:50
  lifestyle, good for them. Whatever works for them.
• 20:53
  There are people that meet one time before they get married.
• 20:55
  Statistically, it works for them in many, many ways.
• 20:58
  I'm not. It works well.
• 20:59
  OK, great. They have a, they have a really
• 21:00
  nice percentage. I'm not looking to mess with
• 21:02
  that. But on your second point, it's
• 21:04
  on you did a great job addressing the first point, but
• 21:06
  I want to address the second point that you made, which is
• 21:08
  the, you know, you show affection in house.
• 21:10
  You do it intimately at home. You don't have to do it outside.
• 21:12
  I got it. Let's make believe, for example,
• 21:14
  for a second that intimacy is good at home and things are good
• 21:17
  and you're actually living a healthy marriage.
• 21:18
  That that's that's what I'm referring to.
• 21:20
  By the way, I'm not saying just hold hands and start being
• 21:22
  affectionate in public less than at home.
• 21:25
  Of course, you know more just a little bit, you know, so on.
• 21:28
  But to your second point, you have a nice BMW.
• 21:30
  Don't you want that car cleaned? Don't you love when people look
• 21:34
  at it? Aren't you proud of it?
• 21:35
  Aren't you into it? Isn't it your like best friend
• 21:38
  at times? Just think about.
• 21:39
  That you sound like a Jasperos and you want to show off your
• 21:41
  wife Oscar. That's what it sounds like.
• 21:43
  Holding a hand to you is like washing a car then.
• 21:45
  No, but you're saying like you don't.
• 21:46
  You want to show your car off. That's what I'm saying.
• 21:48
  Have a spic and span. I don't understand the concept
• 21:50
  of being proud of something so. Of course, but you're saying be
• 21:53
  proud? Hold on, I'm is to.
• 21:55
  Hold hands and to hug and to kiss.
• 21:57
  No, no, no, no. I'm saying hold a hand.
• 21:59
  It's really. Did I say that took it a little
• 22:01
  further? No, I did it.
• 22:02
  I just said hand. No, no, you said more than.
• 22:04
  That no, I did it. Oh, I said.
• 22:06
  Was. What I said, what I said was,
• 22:08
  and I'm sticking to it, is that public affection is OK and it's
• 22:13
  encouraged. And if someone wants to do it to
• 22:15
  a point of obviously being rated PG right that does that make
• 22:19
  sense? To you sure, I better be PJ
• 22:20
  sure. That's by the way I would
• 22:21
  actually, I would actually say. G.
• 22:24
  Exactly. I would even go.
• 22:25
  That's fine, you could say G, but unfortunately Oshi thinks
• 22:28
  holding a hand is R. No, no, holding a hand is OK.
• 22:30
  I wouldn't Oh, it is OK. I wouldn't do it.
• 22:32
  I I don't think my wife would want to do it either.
• 22:34
  But I why don't you ask her? No, it's not.
• 22:36
  It's it's it's not about. Whether Oshi this weekend is
• 22:40
  going to be holding his wise? Let's get back on topic why
• 22:43
  we're here today. All right, let's talk about
• 22:45
  Saudi. Why don't you tell me?
• 22:47
  I I. Don't know, it's all about
• 22:47
  addiction. I don't know anything about
• 22:49
  really what is nothing about marriage, can you?
• 22:51
  It's all about addiction. Can you first tell me what is it
• 22:53
  exactly that you do and how did you get into this?
• 22:57
  All right, I'm just kidding. The overview.
• 22:59
  I love that question. Yeah, just the overview, because
• 23:01
  I don't really know. I don't know.
• 23:02
  OK, so right now, I mean, I've been working in addiction in and
• 23:07
  I'm a, I'm a therapist and addictions counselor for 27
• 23:13
  years. Like that's how long I've been
• 23:14
  working in the field with mainly teens and then adults in
• 23:18
  different rehab situations. But the two main things that
• 23:21
  I've done has been our place, which is drop in Center for
• 23:24
  teens in Brooklyn, which is also the umbrella company for the
• 23:29
  living room and our village, which is the new, our and the
• 23:33
  girls our place as well. But the, and our village, our
• 23:36
  village is the newest project that I'm the most passionate
• 23:39
  about now, which is a, which is a sober living community.
• 23:42
  Actually here in Muncie where we have there is 6 houses and
• 23:46
  there's a whole community based around healing from addiction
• 23:50
  and that's post rehab. They come in and they, they
• 23:54
  transition back into life. So that's what I'm mainly
• 23:57
  focused on and I'm running programs.
• 23:59
  I don't really have a prior practice anymore 'cause I'm busy
• 24:02
  with our place and our village. Those are the two things.
• 24:04
  So teens and the addiction for adults and.
• 24:08
  You do this full time. Yeah, full time.
• 24:10
  And you have 6 sober living houses right now in Muncie.
• 24:13
  Right now we we just opened our 6th house 'cause we're opening a
• 24:15
  woman's house, we're starting to.
• 24:17
  Know oh so right now it's 5 for men and 1/5 for men the first
• 24:19
  one for for women is going. To be the first one for women.
• 24:21
  And how many per house? So there's 33 beds for those for
• 24:26
  those five houses in total, just added another 11 beds for women.
• 24:31
  Wow, and what's the cycle? How long does somebody typically
• 24:33
  stay in the sober house until you rotate?
• 24:36
  So we created a new model, which is, which is that the sober
• 24:39
  house does have, it's basically an average of a six month
• 24:44
  process where you actually it's it costs a little bit of money
• 24:47
  and a little bit more money because there's a lot of lot of
• 24:48
  staff and services. And then they move up from that
• 24:51
  to call the step up level where they could move into the other
• 24:54
  houses where there's much less oversight and it so it at that
• 24:58
  point they could stay for two years, three years.
• 25:01
  We had this year we had actually had seven guys get married in
• 25:04
  the in the program. Unbelievable.
• 25:07
  Seven guys in one year. Probably because I talk about
• 25:09
  marriage so much. Yeah, yeah, I see that anyway,
• 25:11
  so I wish. Or because you hold your wife's
• 25:12
  hand. Because I hold.
• 25:13
  But that's a really beautiful thing because from where they
• 25:15
  came. From yeah, no, no these.
• 25:16
  End up now in a functional marriage and and and.
• 25:19
  Wow, that's that's a great result.
• 25:21
  So they'll stay in the houses or apartments in the area and until
• 25:25
  they they could stay till they they get married or move on or
• 25:28
  And so we have guys in. Apartment.
• 25:29
  Is it only for the community people?
• 25:31
  Living in as well. Really.
• 25:33
  Couples. Couples are sticking around and
• 25:34
  we have a whole. So people come to this program
• 25:37
  as husband and wife together. No, no, they don't come
• 25:39
  originally together, but they now get married.
• 25:42
  But it's not, it's not really a sober living house.
• 25:45
  It's a sober living community. So there's a lot, a lot of
• 25:47
  community events and we do different things.
• 25:49
  And if I explain addiction to you, which we could be, which
• 25:52
  we, which was kind of your first question, then you'll understand
• 25:56
  that the the opposite of addiction is connection.
• 25:59
  And we are very, very serious about building those strong
• 26:03
  community connections. And we're community within a
• 26:05
  community. So the guys are very connected
• 26:07
  to the, the couple schools in the area and there's a lot of
• 26:10
  people involved from the outside as well.
• 26:12
  Michael's one of them. And like we, we're, we're
• 26:15
  utilizing the beautiful Jewish community to make this even more
• 26:18
  amazing. But they could stay for years
• 26:20
  because they're giving back and they become like older.
• 26:23
  It's a community. So it's not like a program that
• 26:25
  you leave. You could stick around and help
• 26:27
  out and keep growing. So it's amazing.
• 26:29
  It's a very, very cool concept. I love this, I love this, and
• 26:32
  who is funding this entire thing?
• 26:35
  Our place technically is funding it.
• 26:37
  So who does you do the fundraising or I?
• 26:39
  Do the fund a lot of the fundraising early on because our
• 26:41
  place really kind of wanted to see the proof of concept, but
• 26:44
  our place has really taken over the overall fundraising.
• 26:47
  The program is close to break even though, so it's not that
• 26:52
  much fundraising. I just.
• 26:53
  Want to say one of the world's leading expert in fundraisers in
• 26:57
  literally that I've ever met is the guy who runs the Airplace
• 27:00
  fundraiser. Yes, I agree with you buddy.
• 27:02
  I know who the guy you're talking about.
• 27:04
  Aria. Young, yeah, he's amazing.
• 27:05
  He's a king. He's very good at it.
• 27:07
  I just want. To I just want to drop a quick,
• 27:09
  you know, promo for this man here, this this who's built so
• 27:13
  many programs for people because he recognizes that, OK,
• 27:16
  everybody wants to give charity, but you know what?
• 27:18
  Let's do it in a way where it's dignified or where you're having
• 27:21
  a good time or, you know, he, he keeps everyone in mind and he
• 27:25
  has pro, he's done the tennis, he's started the volleyball.
• 27:28
  Volleyball years ago. Yeah, and, and even having a
• 27:31
  dining experience that he doesn't even talk about, it's
• 27:34
  wild. I mean, can we talk about?
• 27:35
  That I heard about that, yeah. I mean, he doesn't even.
• 27:37
  Publicize it. Yeah.
• 27:37
  Yeah. No, he's amazing.
• 27:38
  He's unbelievable. He's really good at what he
• 27:40
  does, and he does good causes. So I'm happy that you have
• 27:43
  somebody here. Yeah.
• 27:44
  So without him, we wouldn't be able to do all these programs
• 27:46
  and you're talking about well over 1000 people a year getting
• 27:50
  help through throughout all the programs.
• 27:52
  Wow. It's, it's an incredible,
• 27:55
  incredible place. Our.
• 27:56
  Place So what spurred this on for you Like what what how did
• 27:59
  you even get into this well. I was from the streets of
• 28:00
  Jerusalem with this young man here.
• 28:04
  We did what I call my time before I started getting healthy
• 28:12
  was my field research. I did some good field research
• 28:16
  out in the field, you know, living on the streets and doing
• 28:19
  some stuff. So I, I, it just made sense that
• 28:22
  I would go into helping people. Also, I'm from a family that we
• 28:25
  have 9 therapists in my family. My mother was a therapist.
• 28:28
  We're all therapists. Like that's how it is.
• 28:32
  So he like helping was the direction I was going to go as I
• 28:36
  as I got better. And then that's been my passion.
• 28:39
  So I want to help people and it's it's, it's pretty awesome.
• 28:43
  Yeah, good for you. What's like the number one
• 28:46
  addiction that you see people come to you for?
• 28:48
  Is there, is there one common thread that's typically the
• 28:51
  pattern. I understand there are probably
• 28:53
  a variety of addictions, but is there one that stands out above
• 28:57
  all that? Typically this is what the
• 28:58
  addiction is. Well, OK, so way to answer that.
• 29:02
  The answer is validation. Addiction is the biggest
• 29:05
  addiction. What's validation?
• 29:07
  Validation is that you love me. I mean, if I could get you to
• 29:10
  love me and be impressed with me, then I'll get my fix.
• 29:13
  That's the biggest addiction and that's the core of every
• 29:16
  addiction. But I have to back up to explain
• 29:18
  me people addiction and I could get we're running around and
• 29:21
  we're talking about holding hands so that someone else looks
• 29:23
  at you and says, wow, look at their marriage.
• 29:26
  That's what we're all like living our entire lives with.
• 29:28
  He's going to look at my BMW. He's going to look at this and
• 29:30
  this. And then we're like building our
• 29:31
  life around making sure everybody loves us so that we
• 29:34
  feel better about ourselves. That's what we call validation
• 29:37
  addiction. That's kind of the core of all.
• 29:38
  Addiction makes sense. So yeah, but no one really puts
• 29:41
  it that way, but that's how it is.
• 29:42
  But they the way I see addiction is a little bit different than
• 29:46
  how most people see addiction. So I could, I have to kind of
• 29:48
  explain it and it's alright if I, I do that here, but OK.
• 29:51
  So basically I believe that addiction is a spectrum and
• 29:56
  everybody's got it. Like you were saying,
• 29:57
  everybody's got some sort of addiction.
• 30:00
  So the way I see it is that, and they explain addiction is that
• 30:06
  is that we have an internal self esteem, every human being.
• 30:09
  And that's how we deal with our stuff, our good feelings, our
• 30:12
  bad feelings. We deal with it with our
• 30:14
  internal self esteem that makes us feel better.
• 30:18
  When that self esteem is not strong enough, we use external
• 30:22
  self esteem. So we use outside forces to make
• 30:25
  us feel better. When you think of an addict as
• 30:28
  I'm trying to make it as simple as possible.
• 30:30
  When I, when you think of an addict, his self esteem is so
• 30:32
  low that it's everything he does is external self esteem.
• 30:36
  He's using these people to make him feel better.
• 30:39
  He'll be super charming at work and he'll make everybody love
• 30:42
  him. He'll, he'll use too much
• 30:44
  cocaine. He'll, he'll use relationship
• 30:47
  addiction, sex addiction, food addiction.
• 30:49
  He might use It's very hard to find someone who's only addicted
• 30:52
  to one thing. Everybody, it's, it's, it's on
• 30:55
  you. It's not on the thing.
• 30:56
  That's why it's hard to answer that question.
• 30:58
  An addict is a person who's addicted.
• 31:00
  So you'll find that cocaine works the best for you and
• 31:03
  you'll find that gambling works the best for you.
• 31:05
  It doesn't really matter because that's the thing that you're
• 31:08
  taking from the outside to make our insides feel better.
• 31:13
  And everybody has an issue. So like, I'll give you an
• 31:16
  example. Like when we have like Netflix
• 31:20
  wouldn't make any money if we weren't all addicts.
• 31:23
  I mean, we all binge watch a Netflix show and nobody should
• 31:26
  do that. You probably should not be in
• 31:28
  anybody's life. Like you said, that guy said, my
• 31:30
  guys don't watch TV, Everybody's watching TVI don't know what
• 31:33
  he's talking about. They're binge watching they're
• 31:36
  but what's happening is we're using that to comfort ourselves.
• 31:39
  And the more we use things to comfort ourselves, the less our
• 31:42
  self esteem works and the worse it gets.
• 31:44
  So that's how the addiction is. So, so to understand addiction
• 31:48
  is just that our external self esteem is way bigger than our
• 31:51
  internal self esteem. And everybody's on the spectrum.
• 31:55
  So if your self esteem is at like 70%, your addiction is
• 31:58
  going to be like a 30%. So most healthy people are
• 32:01
  somewhere in that range. Like they're mostly healthy and
• 32:03
  then sometimes they need to feel better.
• 32:05
  So they're doing things they're not proud of the eating too
• 32:07
  much. They, you know, they got to go
• 32:08
  on diets all the time. And like regular people, addicts
• 32:11
  have no self esteem. The way we think of addicts,
• 32:13
  they have nothing. They don't feel good.
• 32:15
  So the like the main feeling they're feeling is I am
• 32:18
  essentially unlovable. There's nothing about me that's
• 32:21
  lovable. And therefore I need to make
• 32:24
  myself lovable by using these outside forces.
• 32:27
  So I don't remember your original questions, but I wanted
• 32:31
  to. Explain.
• 32:32
  That's a good sign by that was my question.
• 32:34
  Literally I want to understand what you do and I want to know
• 32:36
  what the addiction you've seen and you're saying is the biggest
• 32:39
  addiction is it all comes from the same root cause, which is a
• 32:42
  low self esteem that makes them now look for other things
• 32:46
  externally to find to make themselves feel good to cover up
• 32:49
  that low self esteem. But what happens?
• 32:51
  What I was saying about the validation addiction is that all
• 32:53
  addictions, if you peel them back when we're a kid and we're
• 32:56
  not feeling good, we try to make everybody love us.
• 32:59
  We try all different ways, and then we realize that it's
• 33:02
  exhausting to make other people love us.
• 33:03
  So that once in a while we'll try a little pot, we'll try a
• 33:06
  little, we'll try a. Little so we move away from that
• 33:09
  and then we. Cover it and then and then we we
• 33:11
  take those and Oh yeah, I stopped drugs so I'm fine, but.
• 33:14
  It's a great segue. It's a great segue to what we
• 33:16
  left off earlier and I have to go.
• 33:17
  Back to it 'cause. You gotta tell me.
• 33:19
  I mean, I, I get this question all the time and concerned
• 33:22
  parents and you're gonna get to that point and you're gonna ask
• 33:25
  yourself, you're gonna wanna know the tools and now is the
• 33:27
  best time to learn it, by the way, before your kids reach an
• 33:30
  age of this potential challenges.
• 33:32
  When is that transition point? When do you recognize that
• 33:34
  there's an issue, that there's nothing I can do anymore?
• 33:36
  It's all about the kid needing to help himself and I need to
• 33:40
  just show him full love. How?
• 33:42
  What's that? Please give me that on behalf of
• 33:45
  all the challenges. I I understand your question.
• 33:47
  When a kid. Well, Sonny Wilkes, isn't there
• 33:49
  always an opportunity for someone to change?
• 33:51
  You're saying there's a certain point when all is lost that you
• 33:53
  can't change anymore. Yeah, I don't agree with that
• 33:56
  either. So, OK, so I'll go.
• 33:58
  I'll. Start with that, with the
• 33:59
  philosophy. That is that.
• 34:01
  You're showing love. You're not dealing with the
• 34:02
  challenge. You're meaning you're dealing
• 34:03
  with the challenge separately, but you're you.
• 34:05
  Know OK, so the interesting thing that in the addiction
• 34:07
  world everybody says the idea that if he doesn't want to get
• 34:10
  better we can't help him. That's what I'm talking about.
• 34:12
  That's what you talk. About right, so he's got to want
• 34:14
  it and then we there. You go right, That's it.
• 34:15
  I'm talking about that stigma, that challenge that.
• 34:18
  That's good that you said as a stigma because.
• 34:20
  I, oh, I'm referring to it as a stigma.
• 34:21
  I, I know your philosophies, right?
• 34:23
  I'm just bringing that up on behalf of a lot of people that
• 34:25
  have challenges, and I had those challenges until I spoke to you
• 34:28
  about this a decade ago, Right. And that's what I'm saying to
• 34:31
  you, that there's a challenge like that that exists, of
• 34:34
  course, like, oh, there's nothing we can do anymore.
• 34:36
  We, yeah, of course there are many parents that give up on
• 34:38
  their kids. There's nothing we can do.
• 34:39
  All we got to do is show love and that's it.
• 34:41
  We're done. Right.
• 34:41
  So like, well, that's good if they just show love.
• 34:43
  Sure, if that's the only thing they're doing would be.
• 34:46
  I wish that was it. Usually they show toughness,
• 34:48
  which is the opposite of what you need.
• 34:50
  So there is some truth to it. If you really want to heal, you
• 34:54
  have to want to heal. Like you can't really do much
• 34:57
  without wanting it. The thing is there's a lot we
• 35:00
  could do to make someone want it.
• 35:02
  And best way to explain it is that is OK.
• 35:06
  So every addict, what makes yourself esteem go to this place
• 35:09
  that's so bad usually and everybody's talking about it
• 35:12
  trauma and it's a something happened inside your your love
• 35:17
  tank. That's what I call it, is that
• 35:18
  it's got these gash, these big holes in it that are, that are
• 35:22
  leaking all the love that you can't hold it.
• 35:25
  So something happened, usually some traumatic events or they
• 35:28
  didn't get a lot of love when they were young and they just
• 35:31
  don't believe they're lovable. So they have nothing to hold on
• 35:33
  to, to be able to make the right moves in life.
• 35:36
  So that's, they're, they're, they're falling apart and
• 35:39
  they're, they're traumatized people and that's how they are.
• 35:42
  So this is, I'll break up because I brought up once on
• 35:45
  another podcast and people got very, very excited about it.
• 35:47
  So I will tell you that the whole concept of my program is
• 35:50
  based on what we call Shiva house rules.
• 35:53
  Like Shiva. You sat through a Shiva.
• 35:55
  I sat through a Shiva recently. The, the, the rules of Shiva are
• 36:00
  fascinating because I, I really had a question of like, what
• 36:03
  does Judaism say about healing addiction or trauma or anything?
• 36:06
  So what does it say? It doesn't really have much to
• 36:08
  say about it. And I didn't realize it until I
• 36:10
  like was studying like the rules of Shiva.
• 36:13
  And like it came to me that Shiva has the opposite rules of
• 36:19
  all the addiction programs out there.
• 36:21
  Most addiction programs out there are trying to train
• 36:23
  somebody to get better. Like, OK, this is how you make
• 36:26
  your bed. This is how you get a job.
• 36:27
  This is it's very behavioral and it's very like we're going to
• 36:29
  teach you how to live life again.
• 36:31
  The problem is these people don't not know how to live life.
• 36:33
  They're just so broken that they don't have the strength to do
• 36:35
  it. And so our job is to really fill
• 36:38
  them up and have them do it. In Shiva, you walk in, imagine
• 36:42
  you walk into a Shiva and you see a guy sitting low down on
• 36:45
  the floor and you say get up, get a job.
• 36:46
  What's wrong with you? Go get a job.
• 36:49
  Just get up, get a life. What, are you feeling sad for
• 36:51
  yourself? It would be the most ridiculous
• 36:53
  thing you could possibly say to the guy.
• 36:54
  We understand the idea of Shiva is that when someone gets to a
• 36:58
  place that is so broken and so hurting, we know as a community
• 37:04
  that it's not on them to get better anymore.
• 37:07
  It's on us. We have to surround that person.
• 37:10
  People coming. I, it was hard for me.
• 37:12
  I sat through Shiva recently and it was like people just kept
• 37:14
  coming and come. They did not allow me to sit by
• 37:17
  myself for one second. They were like, we got you,
• 37:20
  we're holding you. You call me from a different
• 37:23
  country like it would. People calling, texting, they're
• 37:27
  holding. And all I wanted was everybody
• 37:30
  to go away and like, I could go hide in my room.
• 37:32
  Like just when someone is broken, all they want to do is
• 37:36
  hideaway and be broken. And the community says no.
• 37:40
  Not only that, we're going to sit here in silence until you
• 37:43
  talk. I don't need.
• 37:46
  We don't need you to do anything, You understand that?
• 37:49
  Sonny, Sonny, you're this is amazing.
• 37:51
  This is so profound because and by the and go with this.
• 37:54
  Keep going with this. What I'm saying is he's
• 37:55
  listening to the listening to the shiver rules about the so
• 37:58
  far two of them. I heard so far right is that you
• 38:00
  have the outside people that are meant to come and come for you
• 38:02
  by design. Yeah, you're not supposed to fix
• 38:05
  yourself. You mourn and let your support
• 38:07
  team rally around and let them do their job.
• 38:10
  And, and the second thing, the second thing is that we're going
• 38:13
  to wait for you to talk first. We're not going to help because
• 38:15
  you have to, you know, you have to help yourself a little bit as
• 38:17
  well. So you talk.
• 38:18
  We're going to sit here and support you and these rules.
• 38:21
  It sounds like it's all about. Bringing them food.
• 38:24
  Why are you telling Go make an egg?
• 38:26
  No, go get a. Job.
• 38:27
  Go get money and buy your own food.
• 38:29
  No, we're going to bring you food.
• 38:30
  Until you're healed. Like so when you say, oh, does
• 38:33
  that person want to heal? I didn't want to get better
• 38:36
  during Shiva. I was just broken.
• 38:39
  I lost someone I love. I die.
• 38:40
  I don't want to get better. I don't want to fix myself.
• 38:43
  What do we do? You say like I doesn't want to
• 38:45
  get better. You can't fix him.
• 38:46
  No guy walks into my program. He says what do I have to do?
• 38:50
  I say nothing. It's on us.
• 38:54
  If you can't feel the love and support from us, you're not
• 38:57
  going to get better. Your whole job, if there's any
• 39:00
  job, is try to open your heart a little bit and believe that we
• 39:05
  love you. And if you could do that, we
• 39:07
  going to push our way in and just give you so much love that
• 39:10
  you're going to be so full that you're going to want to move on
• 39:13
  to go doing the work. That's when you got to do the
• 39:15
  work. So people say let's wait till
• 39:17
  he's ready to do the work. What do you mean wait?
• 39:19
  What are you waiting for? This is when he's the most
• 39:21
  broken. That's you have to hold somebody
• 39:23
  with he's the most broken. You hold them against their
• 39:26
  will. They don't have a choice.
• 39:28
  They have to sit there all day. And I felt so uncomfortable,
• 39:31
  like just go home, you know? And I was like, no, the
• 39:34
  community was like, not for one second.
• 39:35
  People I never met before were coming in and saying I love you.
• 39:39
  What was the most the most broken case?
• 39:43
  I mean, maybe you don't want to talk about it because maybe
• 39:45
  people will know, but I imagine pretty much no one will really
• 39:48
  know. But what was the most like
• 39:49
  broken case that came to you that really just tore you apart?
• 39:51
  Like you were like, wow, this is really bad.
• 39:53
  You weren't even sure if you were equipped to deal with such
• 39:56
  a thing. I really have a hard time
• 39:58
  talking about cases but I that I feel like I wasn't equipped.
• 40:03
  Look, you were like shocked, like even you've seen it all.
• 40:06
  This was something that. Was I get you?
• 40:08
  It was new. I get shocked a lot.
• 40:11
  I have a case that I unfortunately he passed away.
• 40:14
  So he did not. It's not one of those great
• 40:17
  stories. I have a million of those great
• 40:18
  stories. But he, we sat down counted like
• 40:21
  a week before he died and he had gone to 42 programs, 42 programs
• 40:28
  and I'd send them to and paid for.
• 40:31
  And I used to call his mother and say just take him home.
• 40:36
  He doesn't need to be in another rehab, even if he's using.
• 40:41
  He just needs his mother to say he didn't have a father.
• 40:44
  Just needs his mother to say you're here, I love you.
• 40:48
  You got to do drugs. Yeah, it's fine.
• 40:50
  But 42 different stranger programs he had to go to and
• 40:56
  none of them told him he loved. All he wanted was his mother to
• 40:59
  say he loved. She loved him to me, that when I
• 41:02
  tell that story, I want to go like.
• 41:03
  And he died. And it makes me incredibly sad,
• 41:08
  but, and I don't know if she would even have saved him, but
• 41:11
  he died not knowing his mother loved him.
• 41:14
  And to me that's, that's, you know, you want to hear a story
• 41:16
  that really tears my heart out. That's a story that really tears
• 41:19
  my heart out. But I have, I have, I have
• 41:22
  another guy that I that I was dealing with.
• 41:24
  I don't know if you ever dealt. No, I don't think you dealt with
• 41:26
  this case at some point, but for 15 years everybody gave up on
• 41:32
  him and he was a dynamic guy, so people would try and try and
• 41:36
  try. 15 years I stayed with this guy and gave him all this love.
• 41:39
  I did the Shiva house rules and for 15 years and everybody
• 41:43
  dropped off. He was one of the most difficult
• 41:45
  cases anybody's ever seen. And after 15 years, he kept
• 41:49
  coming back to me and the same message was I'm here for you,
• 41:52
  loving you no matter what. If you want to do more, you just
• 41:54
  tell me and I got you and the and the whole time he would, he
• 41:58
  would yell at me and scream at me and harass me and it was
• 42:01
  unbelievable. And then he said finally two, he
• 42:05
  he overdosed twice in one week flat lined both times.
• 42:09
  And then he called me. He said I'm ready.
• 42:12
  And now he's years in recovery. He'll he's like got a business,
• 42:17
  a bank account, a car, a motorcycle, he's got friends,
• 42:20
  he's mentoring people. He's you're talking about like
• 42:24
  incredible stuff. And there's a guy who's living
• 42:27
  on the streets, like legit homeless in New York City, like
• 42:30
  legit, like everybody would give up on this guy, but he was being
• 42:34
  held. So like you have, you have both
• 42:36
  sides, you know, but the answer is always they're not so
• 42:41
  addiction. If you want to know addiction is
• 42:44
  it's the answer to a problem. The problem is I feel empty and
• 42:49
  I feel hopeless and I feel completely unlovable.
• 42:54
  That's how I feel and I need to. I need to answer that question.
• 42:58
  So either I get the strength for myself or something is the
• 43:02
  answer. When I use heroin, I guys
• 43:04
  describe it to me as the most amazing hug they've ever felt in
• 43:08
  their life. Really hug, They use that.
• 43:11
  Adjective hug. Like the best hug.
• 43:13
  It's like a hug forever. It's the best hug they ever had.
• 43:18
  Why are they describing it that way?
• 43:19
  Because that's all they want. Addicts are not crazy.
• 43:23
  People are like, oh, that's, that's, that's insanity
• 43:25
  addiction. No, they're looking for the same
• 43:27
  answer. We're all looking for that.
• 43:30
  The question is, how could I feel whole?
• 43:33
  And they're not getting it from themselves and from people
• 43:35
  around them. So they're looking for somewhere
• 43:37
  else. That's what's happening.
• 43:39
  So to understand addiction is within all of us.
• 43:43
  And I don't think there's a person who listens to this that
• 43:46
  can't say, oh, that's me a little bit.
• 43:49
  Oh, wow. I sometimes feel really empty.
• 43:51
  And I and. And there are times in your life
• 43:53
  where you feel more empty. That's why we have shiver rules.
• 43:56
  Yeah. You someone dies in your family.
• 43:58
  You feel worthless. Like light.
• 44:00
  The whole everything's bleak. Yeah, I have to.
• 44:03
  Say, I have to say, Sonny, first of all, I love you.
• 44:05
  Thank you. And on behalf of literally, you
• 44:08
  know, all the people that we've been in touch with over the past
• 44:11
  two decades, thank you for everything.
• 44:14
  Like you're, you're inspiring, you're educating.
• 44:17
  And it's, I'm getting emotional listening to this, to what you
• 44:21
  have to say because we've been through so many cases together
• 44:24
  personally from the community. And one I'm remembering about
• 44:27
  now. And I'm just going to bring that
• 44:29
  topic back because I still didn't get the answer to my
• 44:32
  question, but I'm loving everything you're saying,
• 44:34
  Meaning I'm learning so much and, and, and it's amazing.
• 44:37
  And these are tools that you can always take with you.
• 44:39
  And this is a lot about personal growth today, not professional
• 44:45
  growth, you know so much. But you know, at the end of the
• 44:49
  day, when it comes to the kids that reach that teenage years
• 44:53
  and where you're looking out for them and you're giving them the
• 44:55
  love. And then there's that that
• 44:56
  shift. I, I still want to go back to
• 44:58
  that. The reason why I want to go back
• 45:00
  to that is can you enlighten me for a minute?
• 45:02
  How many overdoses are there in our community?
• 45:06
  What's happening, what's going on in the world today?
• 45:08
  Do you know? Do you have any?
• 45:09
  This is a sweet GLUT question. First of.
• 45:11
  All OK. So we'll get, we'll get to be on
• 45:13
  the program. Like.
• 45:14
  Is it? Is it as bad?
• 45:16
  Is it worse? Is it the same?
• 45:17
  Are the numbers high still? Are we hearing about things?
• 45:22
  Listen, they're definitely, I'm very bad with the numbers.
• 45:26
  Definitely. I will say the community that
• 45:28
  I'm dealing with, it is incredibly rare that we have an
• 45:31
  overdose like from the Our Village community.
• 45:34
  That's amazing. Yeah, of course.
• 45:35
  It's amazing. Step in the right direction.
• 45:36
  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's incredibly rare.
• 45:40
  There was someone who passed away like 2-3 years ago that was
• 45:45
  OK. I want to tell you, I want to
• 45:46
  tell you personally, I've been hearing less.
• 45:48
  I actually. It is definitely.
• 45:49
  Less, I actually been hearing less, yeah.
• 45:51
  And, and I'm proud to say I've been hearing less because
• 45:53
  knowing people like you and SVI and every everyone involved that
• 45:57
  that have been doing so much for the community.
• 45:59
  I want to go back to, to that teenage year, right?
• 46:01
  When you look out for a kid and you see that he's transitioning.
• 46:04
  And I know you didn't resonate with this a little bit, but
• 46:06
  we're going to give it another shot, which is what do.
• 46:09
  You mean like a fourth shot? Yeah, it's like your 4th time
• 46:11
  trying to get an answer. Really is trying to get third
• 46:13
  time yeah how much better questions to answer It's like
• 46:16
  I'm just. Answering other I'm not sure why
• 46:18
  you're so infatuated with this. Question what I'm asking or?
• 46:20
  I know why you're asking. You understand what I'm?
• 46:22
  Asking you're a parent. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:24
  And you're like, what am I looking for?
• 46:25
  Yeah, yeah. What is it?
• 46:26
  Exactly what I'm asking right as a parent.
• 46:28
  Ask that question when you don't have a teenage kid, right?
• 46:30
  It's just not going to happen. So I got there, I think.
• 46:32
  Better yet, teenage. Kids.
• 46:34
  I don't know. My oldest is.
• 46:35
  I know it isn't because I would ask the same question.
• 46:37
  Yeah, but what I think I I maybe would be a little bit different
• 46:41
  way to rephrase the question. Sure, go for it is what can you
• 46:44
  do as a parent along the way to prevent give yourself the best
• 46:48
  chance that your child remain healthy, that there isn't that
• 46:51
  pivotal moment that when you need to save them and what you
• 46:54
  need to actually go down. Like what prevention can I do
• 46:57
  over treatment? No, you're going to say love.
• 47:01
  That's what I was. But that's a very, it's a cop
• 47:03
  out. It's very easy.
• 47:04
  I will tell you, not just love, not just love, right?
• 47:06
  We all give our kids love, Michael, right?
• 47:08
  What do you love out for? What do you need to really focus
• 47:11
  on? Look out for what's really what.
• 47:12
  Michael, thank you, Ishi. What are those trigger things?
• 47:14
  Thank you. Ishi, what do you need to look
• 47:16
  out for as an angle question? Yes.
• 47:18
  Correctly, yes. Not going to go in any
• 47:20
  direction. First of all, there's nature and
• 47:23
  nurture. There's certain kids that just
• 47:25
  naturally are more prone to fall into this.
• 47:29
  There are kids that are born with like stronger, like
• 47:33
  internal systems. They just work better.
• 47:35
  They can handle more pain and just they, they are born that
• 47:38
  way. So there is a nature piece to
• 47:39
  this. And then there's nurture.
• 47:41
  People like nurture is like all the abuse and the stuff like
• 47:44
  that. So start by not abusing your
• 47:46
  kids. Let's, let's talk about that.
• 47:47
  And I'm not talking about that. I'm just going to say that don't
• 47:49
  abuse your kids. Mentally, physically, any sort
• 47:53
  of. Abuse.
• 47:53
  Don't abuse your kid. Absolutely.
• 47:55
  I'm making that as a statement. I'm not embarrassed.
• 47:56
  By the way, level of abuse, don't abuse you, Sonny.
• 47:58
  Level of abuse would be what? Dude, it's a million levels.
• 48:01
  Right, what you can say a. Mean thing to your kid.
• 48:03
  Is that abuse? I am in A room.
• 48:05
  Sorry, that's what that's what my point was, Sonny is saying a
• 48:08
  mean thing to your kid? Is that a form of abuse?
• 48:10
  Well, of course it's. Abuse it could be.
• 48:11
  OK, verbal abuse I'm making sure if I'm a parent might be worse
• 48:15
  than physical abuse. OK, I'm making sure.
• 48:16
  We verbal abuse from a parent, Yeah, hurts deep.
• 48:19
  It cuts deep into a kid. Yelling at a kid, rating him
• 48:23
  embarrassed them. Yeah, those are those are
• 48:25
  horrible things I love. When we're on the same page,
• 48:26
  yeah, very much. I love more when we debate
• 48:28
  though. But yeah, no, no, very.
• 48:29
  Back to that soon. Go ahead.
• 48:31
  OK, so they answer both parts of the nature nurture thing.
• 48:34
  The nature is addicts, almost 100% percent of the time of
• 48:39
  addicts I have will be considered the very sensitive
• 48:42
  kid. If you have one kid who's super
• 48:44
  sensitive and that means he's very sweet and loving to the
• 48:47
  other siblings, but like emotions just overwhelm them and
• 48:51
  they're just like overwhelmed by emotions and they're just,
• 48:54
  they're always feeling their feelings.
• 48:57
  That's the nature. That's the kid.
• 48:59
  He might be the most delicious kid in the whole universe, but
• 49:03
  that's the kid who's the most susceptible for addiction.
• 49:07
  That's from my own research. That's exactly what I was asking
• 49:09
  you about. OK, I appreciate that.
• 49:11
  But. It's not fully.
• 49:11
  I want you to keep going. OK on that.
• 49:13
  Exactly what I'm saying. Does that make sense now?
• 49:16
  Right. Well, they call them HS. 7.
• 49:21
  HSB it's like highly sensitive people, right?
• 49:24
  So that's what they call them, They.
• 49:25
  Just made that up. No, no.
• 49:26
  No, no, no. It's, it's a real thing.
• 49:27
  It's a real. HSP, highly sensitive people.
• 49:30
  I know some HSPS. Right there.
• 49:31
  You do. We all know the way every one of
• 49:33
  us has one kid like that at least.
• 49:35
  Yeah. So it doesn't mean they're all
• 49:37
  becoming addicts, but they're very susceptible to it.
• 49:41
  And then on the other side is that addicts always go through
• 49:46
  things in life that are exceptionally difficult.
• 49:49
  So you could say, and this is what people like to point out.
• 49:52
  Oh, learning disability is a big thing in, in addiction.
• 49:56
  Like you have a lot of people with learning disabilities.
• 49:58
  You have a lot of people who went through abuse, a lot of
• 50:00
  people who who there's a million things.
• 50:04
  I'm, I'm just for some reason, it's slipping my basically in
• 50:07
  our life, we go through all these different challenges.
• 50:10
  The harder it is for a kid. Let's say a kid has got a
• 50:13
  serious anxiety and he has to go to school every single day.
• 50:16
  That's a nurture thing that's going to be, that's going to be
• 50:19
  hurting this kid. So if you have a highly
• 50:20
  sensitive kid who goes through a lot, a lot of challenges,
• 50:24
  there's something called the ACE score, which is childhood
• 50:28
  experience score. And that's the whole score you
• 50:31
  can take with a psychologist. But if the higher, the more
• 50:35
  challenges you've had as a child, the higher the chances.
• 50:38
  So if you had, let's say a single parent home or death in
• 50:41
  the family or a special needs kid in the family or all these
• 50:45
  things stack up. And the more things you stack up
• 50:48
  on a highly sensitive kid, that's the one you're going to
• 50:50
  be in trouble with. So the answer is that person
• 50:55
  needs to have a house rules, meaning that person you have to
• 50:59
  realize you're trying to train him like the other kids in the
• 51:02
  house who are who are like totally could handle things like
• 51:05
  you could totally be like you're grounded for a week and that kid
• 51:08
  like, shoot, I messed up. I'm going to go to my room.
• 51:10
  Then, you know, my stupid parents grounded me and they and
• 51:13
  they, they're fine and they changed that and they learned
• 51:16
  that lesson and they're fine. But then there are kids, you say
• 51:19
  you're grounded and then they run out the window and they
• 51:22
  curse you out and they spray paint your wall and they, they
• 51:25
  like, they're not getting it. They're not getting the
• 51:27
  punishments because they're just hearing more pain.
• 51:29
  That kid you need with the those gloves that you got to be
• 51:32
  holding that kid because something's really hurting that
• 51:34
  kid. So that I mean, I'm giving very
• 51:37
  big generalities because it's really, really hard to like
• 51:41
  focus this down to this answer. You did a great job
• 51:44
  articulating. It so that's why I love it.
• 51:46
  Yeah, Yeah, I, I understood it very well.
• 51:48
  You know, I want to give you a lot of accolades here because.
• 51:50
  Let's go, baby. You're doing something that
• 51:53
  unfortunately, I, you know, we, we, we've said this before,
• 51:56
  Michael in, in another previous podcast, is that in our
• 51:59
  communities for a long time, certain things have been very
• 52:02
  taboo. And it's something that, you
• 52:04
  know, we don't like to deal with.
• 52:05
  We shove it under the rug and we ignore it, hoping it's going to
• 52:08
  go away or we outcast some of those people that are just
• 52:11
  fitting in and, and put them to the sideline.
• 52:14
  It's very different today. Today there's so much more
• 52:17
  awareness and not just more awareness, but people actually
• 52:20
  do something about it and more accepting, less judging and more
• 52:24
  let's get to the root of the problem and let's help fix it.
• 52:27
  And you're one of those guys. You're one of those guys that's
• 52:29
  out there making a difference in other people's lives.
• 52:32
  And while Michael and I are very hyper focused on what goes on
• 52:35
  around us in our lives. And sure, we, we like to help
• 52:38
  people as well. And Michael, obviously a lot
• 52:39
  more than the average person actually, but you're full time,
• 52:43
  full time is you're dedicating your time to helping other
• 52:46
  people, which, which is an amazing.
• 52:47
  And it's not just you. There's a lot of people out
• 52:49
  there in our community. It's like for every one person
• 52:51
  that's a giver, there's another person that's a taker.
• 52:53
  We have the givers and the takers.
• 52:55
  And it's, it's really divided equally.
• 52:57
  And it's such a beautiful thing to see.
• 52:59
  I have a little bit of exposure to this because I actually have
• 53:02
  one of these sober living houses in my community where I live.
• 53:05
  And I see some of the people that are coming from them and
• 53:07
  they actually come to our shul and they dive in with us.
• 53:12
  I've had some of them over to my house to eat their meal.
• 53:15
  And I've gotten to know them a little bit.
• 53:17
  And some of them are such sweet people.
• 53:19
  Like you would never know that there's something wrong.
• 53:21
  And I don't even know what their real problem is.
• 53:24
  I never ask. Quite frankly, I don't care.
• 53:26
  You know, I'm, I'm a very accepting person.
• 53:28
  And as long as you know, it's not, I mean, I have kids at
• 53:31
  home, so you don't have to keep a little bit of an eye just to
• 53:33
  make sure. But for the most part, these are
• 53:35
  really, really sweet people that you, if you met them on the
• 53:38
  street, you'd never know. You'd never know there's
• 53:40
  something wrong at all. And I am so privileged.
• 53:44
  I keep saying this. That's all the air guy.
• 53:46
  I'll say it again, I'm a part of this community where there are
• 53:50
  people like you that aren't wearing hair capes, you're
• 53:52
  wearing a regular T-shirt, but you're a hero because there are
• 53:55
  a lot of people out there that are being affected and their
• 53:57
  lives are going to be different. They're going to have kids and
• 53:59
  those kids lives are going to be different because of things guys
• 54:02
  like you were doing. And I want to ask you, are you
• 54:04
  alone on this? Do you have other people?
• 54:06
  Do you have counselors? Do you have volunteers like Big
• 54:09
  Brother volunteers types of things?
• 54:10
  Talk a little bit about what else you have in the program to
• 54:13
  support you in being able to reach out to as many of these
• 54:17
  people that need help as much as possible.
• 54:19
  I just want to say part of it as an outsider is the strategic
• 54:22
  placement of the houses within the community, which is what we
• 54:25
  started this conversation with, which is why they come to you
• 54:27
  for Shabbos and which is why we help them get jobs.
• 54:30
  And Rabbi Berger being the rabbi of the of one of the halfway,
• 54:33
  this is the whole. Idea of them and I want.
• 54:35
  Kudos to. You I want to shout out one
• 54:37
  person who you probably know very well.
• 54:38
  I want to shout him out. I want to give his name a ring
• 54:41
  because he deserves. I'm actually not going to say
• 54:43
  his name because he's very humble and he's very modest.
• 54:45
  If you don't say his name, I will.
• 54:46
  He probably doesn't want his name to be said out loud.
• 54:48
  He doesn't want to say it aloud, but he is a St.
• 54:52
  He gives jobs to these kids and to these people.
• 54:55
  He does a lot more. Than that, I'm sure he does a
• 54:57
  lot more than that. So we really know who we're
• 54:58
  talking about. He gives jobs so much.
• 55:01
  Shalomo talking about Shalomo. When he's coming on my back.
• 55:04
  If his wife said yes. This year, if his wife said yes,
• 55:07
  he's coming on the podcast. So I love you.
• 55:09
  Good. So he's coming under the pod.
• 55:10
  Excellent. So he does it from a really,
• 55:12
  really good place. He just wants to help me.
• 55:14
  He doesn't. He doesn't need to.
• 55:15
  Help. He started an organization based
• 55:17
  on our organization, right? The answer to your question is
• 55:20
  after all these years of doing this work, all these years,
• 55:23
  yeah, I really came down to understanding that I don't know
• 55:27
  all the things to fix somebody. I don't.
• 55:30
  But I do know that it cannot happen without a community.
• 55:34
  It cannot happen without hundreds of people supporting
• 55:37
  and loving you constantly. It will not happen to me.
• 55:41
  I'm not building the healing program.
• 55:43
  I'm building the vessel that people could get healing.
• 55:47
  It's really hard to not get better when you're being loved
• 55:50
  by so many people. So I discovered this years ago,
• 55:55
  and my whole dream of this program is not to be hidden away
• 55:59
  in Virginia or Florida or some programming.
• 56:02
  And then you go and isolate yourself, and then you come back
• 56:04
  and your family's supposed to understand what's going on with
• 56:06
  addiction. I want this work to happen.
• 56:09
  Smack a middle of our program, smack a middle of our community.
• 56:13
  People in the community think, what could I do to help?
• 56:15
  I don't have any degrees in snack.
• 56:16
  I want everybody to know that having a guy off for Shabbos is
• 56:19
  as good work as most of what we're doing.
• 56:22
  Yeah, we have the degrees and we're like, we're we're
• 56:24
  strategizing. But the fact that Shloma opened,
• 56:29
  Shloma opened this program called The Neighbors with Simcha
• 56:32
  Hyman, I'm going to shout out him out too.
• 56:35
  But they opened this program called The Neighbors, and
• 56:39
  they're giving more love to these guys.
• 56:41
  And these guys have no degrees, no training, no anything.
• 56:45
  Just give them jobs. Give.
• 56:47
  Them no one needs to teach you how to love.
• 56:49
  Everybody, everybody could help. Like Ellie said the other week,
• 56:53
  it's filling up tires, it's it's stocking the shelves, it's
• 56:57
  giving the snacks, it's it's just amazing sunny.
• 57:00
  I'm, I'm. It's everything.
• 57:01
  Yeah, this wasn't around 20 years ago, 25 years ago when I
• 57:04
  was growing up. I was saying when you were
• 57:06
  growing up, even lonely for sure was, but it wasn't around when I
• 57:08
  was growing up. I remember being a part of a
• 57:11
  similar concept to this, which was for teens at risk and having
• 57:16
  a place where to go after hours so they weren't roaming the
• 57:18
  streets at night. I was probably like 18/19/20
• 57:21
  years old at the time. And I remember where this
• 57:23
  program was. It was on the corner of three O
• 57:25
  6 and Viola, they purchased a house there and it was going to
• 57:29
  be converted into a, a environment that these kids
• 57:33
  could come to. And they asked me to come as
• 57:35
  well as like sort of to hang out there, you know, with the with
• 57:38
  the other kids. You're laughing like just
• 57:40
  remember what it was. OK, So that was I believe that
• 57:44
  was one of the first times they had such a concept here in
• 57:46
  Muncie is when they came up with the idea.
• 57:48
  But when I was growing up, this didn't really know what it was.
• 57:51
  You were a bum and you were no good, and nobody wanted to have
• 57:55
  any part of you. And it did so much damage.
• 57:57
  And there's so many of those people that today are products
• 58:00
  of the lack of what we had back then, that they didn't turn out
• 58:03
  OK. And they're probably, you know,
• 58:04
  having very difficult lives right now.
• 58:06
  But, you know, we're evolving as a community.
• 58:08
  We're understanding better that there's ways to treat this.
• 58:11
  And that's what God wants. God wants that.
• 58:13
  He wants us to help each other. He wants to lift each other up.
• 58:16
  Don't be busy judging and trying to see how you better the next
• 58:19
  person actually get involved in helping the next person, right?
• 58:22
  Some people, it's unfortunate they knock you down to lift
• 58:25
  themselves up. What you're doing, Sonny, and
• 58:28
  you're an example for everyone is you're picking yourself up by
• 58:31
  lifting up others around you. And that's what fills you up.
• 58:34
  And that's what's amazing. And I got to tell you, there's
• 58:37
  going to be families that are going to be credited to the work
• 58:41
  that you and everybody around you, they're the Somos of the
• 58:43
  world that are doing it. That wasn't available, that
• 58:45
  wasn't around back then. But we're not just saying this
• 58:48
  is how it always was and it is what it is.
• 58:50
  We're not saying that we're doing something about it.
• 58:52
  We're changing things. And let's see what else is out
• 58:55
  there, Michael, that we can change in our communities.
• 58:57
  I do what else? I do have to mention you saying
• 58:58
  Muncie, it triggers me to say Rabbi Schmool Gluck, Ace
• 59:02
  Klatskow, Moshe Frankel, Ace Klatskow.
• 59:04
  These are guys that dedicated their life and legends, but they
• 59:07
  were alone. They were alone.
• 59:09
  They were the Bob Dylan's of, of what's it's happening.
• 59:13
  It like it. Afterwards, everybody starts
• 59:15
  appreciating them. They were Trail Blazers.
• 59:17
  They were Trail Blazers. They started when it was
• 59:19
  nothing. And like you said, the bums, you
• 59:21
  know, we're running out of time. But there's a couple of things
• 59:23
  we still want to do. And I have to ask you a
• 59:25
  question, Sonny, from a technical standpoint of what you
• 59:27
  just mentioned, your teenage boy or girl wants to go to 711,
• 59:32
  wants to go to the pizza shop, Great question.
• 59:34
  Wants to go to the supermarket on a Saturday night to hang out
• 59:38
  my God with their. Questions, you know, I I was
• 59:40
  knocking you to, you know, all your questions and I want to
• 59:42
  give you the question a compliment.
• 59:44
  What a great. Can I say one thing?
• 59:46
  I want to know this question because I I'm thinking about
• 59:49
  this already now as my kids. That's his answer.
• 59:51
  I'm starting to think about this.
• 59:52
  I am thinking about is your kid going to be a bum?
• 59:53
  Yeah. No, no.
• 59:54
  What am I going to do? If he's going to tell me I want
• 59:56
  to go to 711 or at 10:00 at night, or I want to go to every
• 59:58
  group, which apparently has become a very big hangout.
• 1:00:00
  And that's exactly what I wanted to ask.
• 1:00:03
  What do I do? Do I people go?
• 1:00:04
  To hang out in aisle 7 of the frozen food section.
• 1:00:09
  It's a thing. Because I have.
• 1:00:12
  The boys and girls, guys, they're mingling.
• 1:00:13
  In Brooklyn, me, because that's where I.
• 1:00:15
  Go in Brooklyn, I meet everybody.
• 1:00:17
  In Brooklyn we had Avenue J, right.
• 1:00:19
  And in Muncie you have aisle 7 At the end of the day, kids need
• 1:00:24
  a place. Be it where it is wherever, or
• 1:00:25
  be it wherever it makes. Definitely need a place to hang
• 1:00:27
  out. I'm OK.
• 1:00:28
  What do you do? What do you do I.
• 1:00:29
  I want to turn to Sonny and ask him exactly how.
• 1:00:33
  What's the message? How do you articulate everything
• 1:00:35
  that we said today? Encapsulate all of that into the
• 1:00:38
  message of Should my kid go to the pizza store just to hang
• 1:00:42
  out? This I, I will tell you after
• 1:00:47
  all these years, I don't really think I have a very good answer.
• 1:00:49
  I'll tell you why, I'll tell you why.
• 1:00:51
  I mean, for me, I, I've been through this so long, I got my,
• 1:00:55
  my kids can do whatever they want.
• 1:00:56
  They completely get whatever they want.
• 1:00:58
  And it's it's probably terrible. I don't, I'm like, I, I don't
• 1:01:01
  care. I just love you.
• 1:01:02
  They see like I, I didn't go through this.
• 1:01:04
  I taught them how to be good people.
• 1:01:06
  They're all good people. And I know every single one of
• 1:01:08
  them, and they're happy and they're healthy.
• 1:01:09
  They're awesome. Healthy, healthy, happy.
• 1:01:11
  I didn't make a big fuss about this, but there are a lot of
• 1:01:14
  communities where I don't know how to give an answer because
• 1:01:16
  you literally have built a system where you have a shit off
• 1:01:20
  system where if you went to aisle 7, you can't have a shit
• 1:01:24
  off like it's there. There are like to tell parents
• 1:01:26
  like take a chill. Well, I can't take a chill if if
• 1:01:30
  the next family that lives next door sees my kid there.
• 1:01:33
  And this is a, this is a a real issue in a Thai community that
• 1:01:38
  we have. There's a lot of benefits to a
• 1:01:39
  Thai community, but there's also like, there's also like a lot of
• 1:01:43
  issues with, with struggles. Like I don't want to marry a kid
• 1:01:47
  who I saw him hanging out with girls for the for the last five
• 1:01:51
  years and then all of a sudden he's a sheepish.
• 1:01:52
  Like, I don't buy it. Like, you know, So it's a very
• 1:01:55
  hard question to ask because there are ramifications the
• 1:01:59
  answer because there's ramifications that I don't I'm
• 1:02:02
  not willing to take it Now. You want to answer from a
• 1:02:03
  psychological point of view. Teenagers are going through a
• 1:02:07
  period of time where they have to rebel against you.
• 1:02:12
  They have to separate themselves because they're supposed to make
• 1:02:14
  their own families now. You got to create their own
• 1:02:16
  church. I want to tell you something.
• 1:02:18
  The sickest people I know, and this is going to shock people,
• 1:02:20
  the people I worked with which who were the most difficult, I'm
• 1:02:23
  talking about foster care was just like a total abandonment of
• 1:02:26
  children. The ones that are the sickest,
• 1:02:30
  the biggest sign was they cannot say anything bad about their
• 1:02:34
  parents. They literally see their parents
• 1:02:37
  as Saints, as teenagers, and the only reason is because they feel
• 1:02:40
  so unsafe that they're scared that their image of the parents
• 1:02:44
  is going to float away. But every single normal kid go
• 1:02:48
  looks at the parents, rolls their eyes, snorts their nose.
• 1:02:51
  It is built into our system to rebel against our parents so
• 1:02:55
  that we can go and build their own families.
• 1:02:57
  And that happens. And then we try to suppress it.
• 1:02:59
  It's like stop, stop, stop. Even though our first of the
• 1:03:04
  Ubos was Amavino, who was called a rebel, that's how he separated
• 1:03:08
  from his father and was able to go out into the world.
• 1:03:11
  Like we have this whole Marshall in the turret.
• 1:03:13
  It's not like we're this is new and then we try to stop it.
• 1:03:17
  Kids are supposed to separate from you.
• 1:03:19
  It's fine if you have a time machine.
• 1:03:22
  My mother used to say when I was a teenager, she used to say
• 1:03:24
  because I was torturing her, it was terrible.
• 1:03:26
  And I was not good at, you know, I was taking this rebellion
• 1:03:29
  thing very seriously. And she she would say, which I
• 1:03:34
  thought was pretty loving. She would say, I wish I had a
• 1:03:36
  time machine because I know you're going to be all right
• 1:03:39
  when you're like 25, but I don't want to be here to watch it, you
• 1:03:43
  know what I'm saying? Like.
• 1:03:45
  If you, it's a great line. It's a great line because and it
• 1:03:48
  was her way of saying I have hope in you, but you're driving
• 1:03:51
  me crazy. Like I know you're going to be
• 1:03:52
  all right, which I felt I was like, OK, she believes in me,
• 1:03:55
  but she couldn't handle it. As parents, we can't handle it.
• 1:03:59
  We want to murder these kids, stop being the worst ever, but
• 1:04:03
  they have to do it on some level.
• 1:04:04
  Now everything's a nuance. Do I do I punish for this?
• 1:04:08
  I punish this. I will give you a basic rule
• 1:04:10
  that Avi Fischhoff talks about, which I really like, which is he
• 1:04:14
  says the muscle of like a guy's driving the wrong way in a one
• 1:04:17
  way street. If you walk over to him, you'd
• 1:04:18
  be like, hey, dude, it's a one way St.
• 1:04:20
  You see that? And the guy's like, oh, Oh my
• 1:04:22
  God, I didn't realize. He turns around and makes AU
• 1:04:24
  turn. But if the guy's like, I don't
• 1:04:26
  care about one way streets, I go whichever way I want in any
• 1:04:28
  street, I want that guy. You can't do regular parenting
• 1:04:32
  with that guy. I mean like that.
• 1:04:33
  So with kids, try to do some discipline, try to ground them,
• 1:04:38
  try all that stuff. If they constantly aren't
• 1:04:41
  learning their lesson and they keep rebelling against you doing
• 1:04:45
  normal parenting with them, then this is a highly sensitive
• 1:04:48
  person and this is somebody that you need to give them a little
• 1:04:51
  bit more of a Shiva house rules. This is going to be different.
• 1:04:54
  So if you want to, if you tying it around to our, to our thing,
• 1:04:58
  try to be a regular parent. It's also Yakov Shapiro in his
• 1:05:02
  book, Yakov Shapiro became a live big anti Zionist.
• 1:05:06
  So if you want to get him on the podcast, he's, I think he's out
• 1:05:09
  of his mind now, But I, I don't, I probably shouldn't say that a
• 1:05:11
  lot, but he's a, he's a rabbi in Bayswater and he wrote a book.
• 1:05:16
  And in his book, he said that when you're just, when you work
• 1:05:20
  with teens, when your kids go from childhood to teenagehood,
• 1:05:25
  you go from management to sales. So like when your kids are like.
• 1:05:29
  Uninteresting. You're like dude.
• 1:05:31
  You hear that? That's not bad.
• 1:05:32
  You go from management to sales, you change your pivot but your
• 1:05:35
  approach. So you guys got this good for
• 1:05:37
  your podcast because you gotta sell it to them.
• 1:05:41
  If they're not buying it, they're not doing it because
• 1:05:44
  that's that's what I was saying. Can you, can you, can you
• 1:05:46
  resonate with this? Do you find I, I think you know,
• 1:05:51
  it holds true from what I know and from the people that I know
• 1:05:53
  and from myself included your parents.
• 1:05:55
  Let's say your parents have six kids, right?
• 1:05:58
  And the oldest is, you know, 10 and, and below, right?
• 1:06:02
  So the 10 year old, when he turns 20, they'll be then the
• 1:06:05
  youngest will be 10, right? The parenting model, their style
• 1:06:10
  changes drastically from the first kid when they were 10 to
• 1:06:13
  the 6th kid when they turn 10. And you're like when you're 20
• 1:06:17
  and you're seeing how they're parenting your sibling at 10.
• 1:06:19
  Wait a second. I didn't get that.
• 1:06:21
  I didn't have that flexibility or they would have yelled at me
• 1:06:24
  if I ever did such a thing. Everybody could, everybody's
• 1:06:26
  probably smiling right now because it certainly happened,
• 1:06:29
  you know, and within their siblings, right.
• 1:06:31
  Well, what's up with that? Like we, we, we change as we get
• 1:06:34
  older as parents, we also get smarter, we get more experience.
• 1:06:37
  We also have a little less patience.
• 1:06:39
  So we're like more giving, like we're not on top of our game
• 1:06:42
  anymore. We have less oversight with the
• 1:06:43
  kids. Like it's a real job to be a
• 1:06:46
  parent. It's a responsibility because
• 1:06:48
  you really have to make an effort the same as you did when
• 1:06:51
  you were young and you were fresh and you were all in the
• 1:06:53
  discipline of your kids and you're going to get the best
• 1:06:55
  kids and then you get older and things I feel a little.
• 1:06:57
  Differently. I'll tell you why I feel a
• 1:06:59
  little differently. I think when we start being
• 1:07:02
  parenting, we're convinced that our parents did a terrible job
• 1:07:05
  and we're going to do a fantastic and we're going to do
• 1:07:08
  such a good job that our kids are going to turn out so well.
• 1:07:10
  And they're not even going to have any trauma and anxiety,
• 1:07:12
  none of that and no depression and no anything.
• 1:07:15
  And we're going to make perfect people because we believe the
• 1:07:17
  lie that our parents make us. They don't.
• 1:07:20
  They just make part of us, you know, like they they're, you
• 1:07:22
  know, so we believe that. So what we do when we start is
• 1:07:25
  like we're going to be perfect parent.
• 1:07:26
  And then you watch it not work. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:07:30
  He's like, I'm going to tell them this way and they're going
• 1:07:32
  to do that way. And then they're going to come
• 1:07:34
  out. And then you watch this kid.
• 1:07:35
  Wait a minute. He's 16.
• 1:07:37
  He's got all the anxiety I had at 16.
• 1:07:39
  Yeah, maybe he has a nicer place to live.
• 1:07:41
  Maybe he doesn't have it. Maybe he's not going to live on
• 1:07:43
  the street. And you know, whatever.
• 1:07:44
  Maybe it's a little different, but he's feeling anxiety.
• 1:07:46
  He's feeling, he's, he's feeling, he feel anxious around
• 1:07:49
  people. He's feeling he's gets
• 1:07:51
  depressed. He sleeps in bed for a week,
• 1:07:53
  like, and you're watching a 16 year old and you realize, like,
• 1:07:56
  why stop being so crazy? Just raise your kids, love them.
• 1:08:00
  And that's what happens. Like I see it as like the
• 1:08:03
  younger kids kind of get the like, I just love you.
• 1:08:07
  Like I'm not going to try so hard to shape you.
• 1:08:09
  And I think that's why the oldest gets the urusha, right?
• 1:08:12
  Because they're the ones that we screw up the most.
• 1:08:14
  Right. They're the they're the Guinea
• 1:08:16
  pig. They're the ones you practice on
• 1:08:18
  the oldest. One, I will tell you, though,
• 1:08:19
  you're kind of saying the same thing, though.
• 1:08:21
  I think what Oshi's also recognizing is as a parent gets
• 1:08:23
  older, they recognize and they realize through therapy or
• 1:08:27
  through speaking to abandoned teachers that you just have to
• 1:08:30
  shower them with more love, right?
• 1:08:31
  Less rules the tough. Love the disciplining.
• 1:08:34
  All of that doesn't work as effectively to get an outcome
• 1:08:37
  that you want. And you know what else?
• 1:08:39
  You always have that aha moment when you're younger and your
• 1:08:41
  parents used to tell you, they told me all the time, every kid
• 1:08:44
  hears this. When you get older, you'll
• 1:08:46
  understand that. Why can't I go here?
• 1:08:48
  When you get older, you understand that.
• 1:08:49
  That was a confidence I always thought.
• 1:08:50
  But then you get older and like, Oh my God, that's what they
• 1:08:53
  meant. Now I understand that's what
• 1:08:54
  they meant, and now you're going to say the same thing to your
• 1:08:57
  kid. But that's when you realize that
• 1:08:58
  your parents were actually geniuses and your parents were
• 1:09:01
  not half as bad as you thought they were.
• 1:09:02
  They actually had an idea of what they were doing.
• 1:09:04
  Oh, and by the way, they really did love you.
• 1:09:06
  They really did mean your best. They had your best interest, by
• 1:09:08
  the way. I have trauma from that, I have
• 1:09:10
  to admit, and we'll you got to come to a close here soon.
• 1:09:12
  But I'll say real quick that I never tell my kids.
• 1:09:16
  When you get older, you'll understand.
• 1:09:17
  I sit down right then and I explain them everything.
• 1:09:19
  Yeah, but you can explain everything.
• 1:09:21
  Every time I explain everything, even when it's not age
• 1:09:23
  appropriate, they'll explain something to that certain times
• 1:09:26
  that it goes over their head, even if you explain to them they
• 1:09:27
  can't really truly process what you're saying.
• 1:09:30
  This is a difference. There's a difference.
• 1:09:32
  He has older kids you still have younger.
• 1:09:35
  Kids, you're still trying to I used to not explain.
• 1:09:37
  Everything he'd be like, I'm not.
• 1:09:38
  Explaining. But he says he never said like
• 1:09:40
  he says he never said that to his kids.
• 1:09:42
  He never said when you get older, you'll understand.
• 1:09:44
  That line, no, I've never said that line ever since they were a
• 1:09:46
  kid, but I've tried explaining them things differently since
• 1:09:49
  they were a kid till now. But you've said that line to
• 1:09:51
  them, no? No, no, I've never said.
• 1:09:52
  You've never said it, never said that line.
• 1:09:54
  When you're old, you'll understand.
• 1:09:55
  I sit down and explain more now than I did earlier.
• 1:09:57
  I just just ignore it. I would ignore it.
• 1:10:00
  Yeah, OK, it's the same thing. Yeah, OK.
• 1:10:02
  I was just saying those words. So you need to get all the
• 1:10:04
  trauma. Now you understand why they
• 1:10:05
  ignore. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:07
  Now I understand why exactly. I will say I'm much better at
• 1:10:09
  marriage than I am at raising kids, so.
• 1:10:13
  That's why I went. Well, you're dealing with
• 1:10:14
  another adult, so it should be easier you'd think.
• 1:10:16
  I'm not raising my wife. That's.
• 1:10:18
  What I'm saying you're not raising her and she's another
• 1:10:19
  adult. It's very hard to raise
• 1:10:21
  somebody. It should be easy.
• 1:10:22
  It should be easier. Than I've seen you do it for
• 1:10:25
  years and people by the way, have a misconception of the way
• 1:10:27
  we grew up also. Sometimes they say Oh yeah, look
• 1:10:29
  at you, you know you grew up on the streets in Israel and so on
• 1:10:32
  and you became successful so why can't we do it I've heard that
• 1:10:35
  question from other kids also. I think it's sad to say that
• 1:10:40
  we've lost a lot of friends along the way, and I don't think
• 1:10:42
  that people recognize that and. I wish to talk about it more in
• 1:10:46
  the open when something like this happens because everybody
• 1:10:48
  should know that other kids should be.
• 1:10:49
  Like I remember in my school growing up, I was probably like
• 1:10:51
  13-14 years old at the time and there was a boy my age who
• 1:10:56
  overdosed and was found on Shabbos by his parents.
• 1:11:00
  It was found in his bed and it was, it was a tragic.
• 1:11:04
  I remember that time, it was like it was terror, it was
• 1:11:06
  chaos. It was really bad.
• 1:11:07
  You know what they did? They tried to like not talk
• 1:11:09
  about it. My parents didn't talk to me
• 1:11:10
  about it at all. No one knew any of the details.
• 1:11:12
  They tried to do it hush, hush and just keep it quiet, gloss
• 1:11:14
  over it. I think that was a mistake and I
• 1:11:16
  think today that wouldn't happen because of what you're doing.
• 1:11:18
  You're bringing exposure to it. You make me.
• 1:11:20
  This is a part of our society. It's happening.
• 1:11:23
  Are you going to deal with it? You can know it.
• 1:11:24
  It is happening. Just because you can know it
• 1:11:26
  doesn't mean it's going to go away.
• 1:11:28
  So we have a much better approach today than we used to
• 1:11:30
  have when we would actually keep things quiet and wouldn't talk
• 1:11:33
  about it as much. Big mistake.
• 1:11:35
  You got to talk about it. Let the kids hear what happens.
• 1:11:38
  This is where you end up if you don't follow the path and if you
• 1:11:40
  don't do things and we're trying to help you.
• 1:11:42
  We're doing this because we love you.
• 1:11:43
  We're not trying to harass you. We're not trying to make your
• 1:11:45
  life harder. We want you'd have the best life
• 1:11:47
  possible, and kids should realize that.
• 1:11:49
  Right. I'm I, I feel like I just.
• 1:11:52
  Love the way you said right? But there's so much you want to
• 1:11:54
  answer. Yeah, I know you by now.
• 1:11:56
  I. I.
• 1:11:56
  What's that answer to? You don't agree with that I.
• 1:11:58
  Will say I'm very excited because I was from the first of
• 1:12:02
  like Minsi Ace and Maish and rubber Glock and all that stuff.
• 1:12:06
  Like I was from started in the 90s.
• 1:12:09
  So which we're going back and we were whistle blowing.
• 1:12:12
  Hey, this is really happening. I'm really glad that's over.
• 1:12:16
  It was annoying. Yeah.
• 1:12:17
  No, I'm saying like, now. No, I'm saying I'm agreeing with
• 1:12:20
  you. Like, like, OK, OK.
• 1:12:22
  Can we just admit it's happening and now do something about it?
• 1:12:25
  So now we're in the States. Like, in the beginning, I was
• 1:12:27
  kind of the enemy of the community.
• 1:12:28
  Like, what's he doing? He's ruining to get.
• 1:12:30
  And now he's like, wow, Sonny Perlman's doing all his
• 1:12:33
  wonderful things. I don't even know what to do
• 1:12:34
  with the accolades. Like you said, like I I don't
• 1:12:36
  know what to do. I I'm hiding in a basement
• 1:12:38
  trying to help kids while you fight me.
• 1:12:41
  It's not the same fight. And I'm very happy for it.
• 1:12:43
  And I'm just really grateful I don't have to go around
• 1:12:45
  whistleblowing those deaths and this and right.
• 1:12:47
  And like, I don't even like you asked me about the deaths.
• 1:12:49
  So I'm like, I don't care. Everybody knows it's a problem.
• 1:12:51
  Like it's a problem. Yalla, let's do something.
• 1:12:54
  Right. What you're saying is I love it.
• 1:12:56
  What you're saying is really what was a problem was back in
• 1:12:58
  the day, like you would actually point out that there's a
• 1:12:59
  problem. I want people like they would
• 1:13:01
  try to squash you. They would try to get you to go
• 1:13:03
  away because they don't want you to expose what's going on in the
• 1:13:05
  community. And they were, they were the
• 1:13:07
  problem. Those people that were
• 1:13:09
  suppressing this and were trying to hide this, they actually
• 1:13:12
  unfortunately have a hand in potentially letting it get to
• 1:13:16
  where it got to that maybe now the problem is bigger.
• 1:13:18
  But thank God that everybody is out there now aware and we're
• 1:13:21
  doing things about it and we're making progress.
• 1:13:24
  It sounds like making real progress, like you're actually
• 1:13:27
  having success. What would you say your success
• 1:13:29
  rate is? An amount of kids that come
• 1:13:31
  through your system, like 50% of the kids end up on the path
• 1:13:34
  correctly, 30% what'd you say you're?
• 1:13:37
  Talking about our place, he's talking.
• 1:13:38
  About. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:39
  You're our place. Our village is different.
• 1:13:40
  Our place is very hard to track. Yeah, although.
• 1:13:43
  Not our place in a sober living house.
• 1:13:45
  Sober. Living as adults, that's.
• 1:13:46
  Different Even so what's that for living it's is it high?
• 1:13:50
  Very. Close to like 80%.
• 1:13:52
  Wow, that's great. That's amazing.
• 1:13:54
  That is something that has a pet peeve because the addiction
• 1:13:56
  community is is the recovery community is varying to like 20%
• 1:14:00
  is great, 80% is great, 20% is not great.
• 1:14:04
  I would shut down a hospital if it has 20% success rate of
• 1:14:07
  saving people, I would shut it down immediately.
• 1:14:09
  Exactly. So what?
• 1:14:10
  A great line. Yeah, so I'm sick of that.
• 1:14:13
  And that's why I created this because I really, and I believe
• 1:14:16
  that everybody's working too hard.
• 1:14:18
  It's a lot easier than people think.
• 1:14:20
  People just need that incredible warmth.
• 1:14:23
  You said, and I'm utilizing the Jewish community, which is like,
• 1:14:26
  I don't know if it'll happen in every community because I
• 1:14:29
  literally who would give drug addicts jobs and stuff like
• 1:14:31
  that? I have guys all over the
• 1:14:32
  community. People listen to this podcast,
• 1:14:34
  call me, say, hey, I have jobs for you guys.
• 1:14:36
  You could hire, you know, an immigrant or you could hire a
• 1:14:40
  Jewish kid who's struggling. And people in the Jewish
• 1:14:42
  community are like completely like helping out.
• 1:14:46
  So I'm utilizing what's already there.
• 1:14:49
  And it's a gorgeous community in a lot of ways.
• 1:14:51
  Not that I don't have criticism of the community, I do but it.
• 1:14:53
  But in general I'm very happy to be.
• 1:14:56
  Part of it. Well, just moved into the.
• 1:14:59
  I love this I. Like that part, your real estate
• 1:15:01
  value is going up. By the way, I just.
• 1:15:03
  But what's one of those I. Just got a new manager in my
• 1:15:06
  podcast and he's like, start yelling about things.
• 1:15:09
  Why aren't you telling everybody the bad stuff?
• 1:15:11
  Yeah, exactly are your grievances.
• 1:15:12
  Let's go. She wants the air.
• 1:15:13
  That's what I want. Give me one thing.
• 1:15:15
  Give me one thing. Give me one thing that bothers
• 1:15:17
  you. Yeah, something that bothers you
• 1:15:18
  about the community. Go for it.
• 1:15:23
  Well, I will say I actually brought it up on the podcast
• 1:15:25
  before. I think that the fact that it
• 1:15:26
  became oppressively expensive to be an Orthodox Jew is like, is
• 1:15:31
  something that has to be fixed. Like yes.
• 1:15:33
  That's not a community issue. Oh.
• 1:15:34
  Yeah, it is. No.
• 1:15:35
  It's a community issue. Oh yeah, that's not a specific
• 1:15:37
  community issue. Every community in the.
• 1:15:39
  Right, it's, but by the way it. Cost me 100.
• 1:15:41
  It was always more expensive. To be a from Jew is a really
• 1:15:44
  scary thing. But is there one?
• 1:15:46
  I think 100. $1000 tuition this year. $100,000 tax is easy.
• 1:15:50
  That's just tuition. I'm saying this year is way over
• 1:15:53
  I. Don't like this one?
• 1:15:54
  Give me another one. This is not gossipy enough for
• 1:15:57
  me. I tell you the truth, Zach, who
• 1:16:01
  I hired is going to be very upset at me, but I, I, I love
• 1:16:03
  the community. I don't want to go into it.
• 1:16:06
  OK, but you have like multiple problems, like things that could
• 1:16:10
  be fixed, things that. Here's my problem is that I need
• 1:16:13
  to always see both sides and so is second someone wants me to be
• 1:16:17
  upset. I only see the good.
• 1:16:19
  I don't know how to great. If you start telling me good
• 1:16:21
  stuff about the community, I'll be like.
• 1:16:23
  That's fine though. Nothing is ever perfect.
• 1:16:25
  Listen, the shit look system we mentioned before is like we were
• 1:16:28
  just mentioning before. Is crazy that I have to worry
• 1:16:32
  about how my kid is at 14 years old or 15 years old or that his
• 1:16:35
  brother is this and his sister is this to marry off a kid when
• 1:16:39
  we come from a tour that everybody had terrible families.
• 1:16:43
  Yes, like everybody was getting married with the absolutely.
• 1:16:45
  Like Yaakov, if you knew and we would never have gotten a
• 1:16:48
  should've think about it, Yaakov.
• 1:16:49
  We had a brother like ASA. Brother then would've.
• 1:16:52
  He never would've gotten a should've in today's society.
• 1:16:55
  Married off all twelve children. Married off all a.
• 1:16:57
  Lot of camels though. Well, to be.
• 1:16:58
  Fair. He married them off to their
• 1:17:00
  sisters. No.
• 1:17:01
  OK, so they know what you. No, I, What I will say is that
• 1:17:08
  it's, it's unbelievable the amount of judgement we have for
• 1:17:11
  other people when we, there's not a family out there that
• 1:17:15
  doesn't have people that are different.
• 1:17:16
  We're human beings, we're all different.
• 1:17:18
  So the only way to make this physical system work is
• 1:17:21
  everybody lying. Just everybody has to lie
• 1:17:24
  because it's impossible that your family's perfect.
• 1:17:26
  I've never met a family that's perfect.
• 1:17:28
  And everybody looks and goes, oh, that family's really
• 1:17:29
  perfect. Look at the nice of the house.
• 1:17:30
  And then that person comes to me and like, this kid's got
• 1:17:33
  addiction. This guy says I'm like, marriage
• 1:17:34
  is falling apart is what I hear all day long.
• 1:17:37
  You can never tell me that somebody's got it going because
• 1:17:40
  everybody who's told me that they come to me later they come
• 1:17:42
  and she listen to hey, I know you deal with this stuff.
• 1:17:44
  Could you guys talk to you saying I'm like what you perfect
• 1:17:46
  life every day's literally? Point.
• 1:17:48
  Remember Michael Schnitzler, the big singer?
• 1:17:50
  He died like a year or two ago. Yeah.
• 1:17:52
  I happened to be grew up listening to him.
• 1:17:54
  My father really liked listening to Mahal sing, and so I used to
• 1:17:58
  hear his music a lot. But he had a song where he told
• 1:18:01
  a story about a person who came up to the next World, and they
• 1:18:05
  opened the closet for him and said, here is the world's.
• 1:18:08
  Everybody's problems are in here.
• 1:18:10
  There's packages. It's all labeled.
• 1:18:11
  And you can see exactly what's part of their problems that they
• 1:18:14
  have in their package. You got to pick.
• 1:18:16
  I'm gonna send you back down to the world.
• 1:18:17
  You're gonna have a new life, and you got to pick which one
• 1:18:19
  you want. And he looks, he's looking.
• 1:18:20
  And eventually he realizes, I'm sorry, I want my own, I want
• 1:18:24
  mine that I had to. I don't want anybody else's.
• 1:18:26
  Like he couldn't find somebody else's package that he liked
• 1:18:29
  more than his. And the moral of that story was
• 1:18:30
  that everybody always thinks that there's it's something
• 1:18:32
  better than an expert. And there is, there are things
• 1:18:34
  they have better than you, but there are things they have worse
• 1:18:36
  than you. And there are things that you
• 1:18:38
  can handle. Everybody's supposed to be able
• 1:18:40
  to only handle what they get. God doesn't give you, I don't
• 1:18:42
  believe more than what you can handle.
• 1:18:44
  They say he doesn't slap with two hands, right.
• 1:18:47
  So everybody has to just be conscious of that, that it's not
• 1:18:50
  better out there. Be happy with what you have.
• 1:18:52
  Easier said than done. Easier said than done.
• 1:18:54
  It's very difficult to do so. But at the end of the day, it's
• 1:18:57
  true. It's been proven.
• 1:18:58
  It's almost like a fact is that no one has it better than the
• 1:19:02
  next person. If you can get past that, I
• 1:19:04
  think it'll give you better self-confidence, which will give
• 1:19:07
  you, I guess what you're saying, less addiction, which is really
• 1:19:09
  the remedy ultimately, right? It's to build yourself up, fill
• 1:19:12
  yourself with real things so you don't need externally defined
• 1:19:15
  things. And that's for addiction becomes
• 1:19:17
  a big problem. Is that right side?
• 1:19:19
  Is that right? That's amazing bro.
• 1:19:21
  We have to do a lightning round and Ushi, we're going to give it
• 1:19:25
  another shot. So let's do this 60 seconds on
• 1:19:27
  the clock and. You get the clock going you.
• 1:19:29
  Get one of none of your business answers.
• 1:19:31
  You're saying that it could be all.
• 1:19:33
  You don't know how deep it's going to get.
• 1:19:35
  Let's give it a shot. We've customized it for our
• 1:19:37
  guests. So this is more for your line of
• 1:19:39
  work and here we go. What's harder, being a therapist
• 1:19:45
  or a parent? Parent.
• 1:19:47
  Whoa, that was quick. Your biggest pet peeve in
• 1:19:50
  therapy? I people talking about everybody
• 1:19:54
  else being a narcissist. What's the one word you would
• 1:19:57
  describe running a halfway house?
• 1:20:00
  Patience, the most important tool in recovery.
• 1:20:09
  Acceptance. The most satisfying part of your
• 1:20:12
  day. Getting to bed.
• 1:20:17
  The most eaten snack at the halfway house.
• 1:20:21
  I don't know. I don't know is that.
• 1:20:27
  Is there one item that people eat a lot?
• 1:20:28
  They eat so much of everything. I don't, I don't know Xanax.
• 1:20:32
  It's hopefully not. Are you kidding me?
• 1:20:34
  They do not eat that, you know. Because like they have in like a
• 1:20:37
  lot of places where they have coffee, coffee is like the
• 1:20:39
  biggest thing. Like, I mean, they, yeah, one of
• 1:20:41
  the things is that, and I know it's a lightning round, but I'm
• 1:20:43
  saying one of the things is that because we believe in the Shiva
• 1:20:47
  House Rules idea that I'm now calling it Shiva House Rules is
• 1:20:52
  that we have such an abundance of everything.
• 1:20:55
  There's like tons of food. It's like feels like a childhood
• 1:20:57
  house. Everyone has their own favorite
• 1:21:00
  fruity. Pebbles a week, Everybody checks
• 1:21:03
  what they want in the shopping. Well, we get everything.
• 1:21:05
  That's cool. I love that.
• 1:21:06
  I have two more questions. The most common emotion in
• 1:21:10
  recovery. Hopelessness.
• 1:21:16
  And what is finally the most unpopular addiction?
• 1:21:21
  Most unpopular addiction? It's unpopular for who?
• 1:21:25
  For me, first of all, is there is there addictions that are
• 1:21:29
  treated differently than other addictions or the same type of
• 1:21:31
  method you treat? Everything different, I don't
• 1:21:34
  think you should. You think you should each be
• 1:21:36
  separated with its own basket? That's why you're having a hard
• 1:21:38
  time answering the question. Yeah, I'll tell you.
• 1:21:40
  Someone told me once they were addicted to games.
• 1:21:42
  Yeah, gaming addiction, yeah. That's an unpopular addiction.
• 1:21:45
  Was it unpopular? What does unpopular mean?
• 1:21:46
  Unpopular mean people are more addicted to alcohol or drugs.
• 1:21:49
  There's more people, there's definitely more people addicted
• 1:21:52
  to gaming than drugs or alcohol. I was actually specifically
• 1:21:54
  talking about board games. But anyway, Board games, yeah.
• 1:21:56
  Board games, yeah, yes. No, no, no, I'm not.
• 1:21:59
  Talking about this, they have a show they.
• 1:22:01
  Have addicted to board games? Yes.
• 1:22:02
  Yes, they have a show called Weird Addictions, Right?
• 1:22:04
  My Weird Addictions. That's what I was asking you.
• 1:22:06
  What is the strangest 1 the most about?
• 1:22:07
  You don't know because you don't care because at the end of the
• 1:22:09
  day you treat them all the same thing.
• 1:22:10
  In closing, guys, I just want to mention real quick.
• 1:22:13
  No, it's totally OK. All right, Maybe we'll.
• 1:22:14
  Get rid of that so. Far you like the lighting round,
• 1:22:16
  right, Right. There is another thing that we
• 1:22:18
  do. We're going to save it to the
• 1:22:19
  very last second. But in closing, I do want to say
• 1:22:22
  the overabundance of love in that message.
• 1:22:24
  And I think Stefan, we have an easy title for our podcast for
• 1:22:30
  this episode. Shiva house rules.
• 1:22:33
  Shiva house rules. It should be called.
• 1:22:35
  Why? You're wrong about everything.
• 1:22:37
  You got to piss people off in a title.
• 1:22:39
  All right, that's it. We're going to go.
• 1:22:40
  You know, by the way, that's what we should ask people.
• 1:22:42
  Also, what do you think of a title for this actual podcast?
• 1:22:45
  Now that we're done with it? We're going with that, Sonny.
• 1:22:47
  But I want to tell you the reason why I like the Shiva
• 1:22:49
  House Rules is because in Shiva houses, it's an overabundance of
• 1:22:52
  love. And as you said, when you were
• 1:22:54
  growing up, the community, they shunned it.
• 1:22:57
  They sort of pushed it away. And at when you were that age, I
• 1:23:01
  was of the age of being a mentor for a kid who Od'd mistakenly
• 1:23:05
  and he died. And I know this because it
• 1:23:08
  happens and he didn't want to OD.
• 1:23:11
  Like I think that I've learnt that from the time of being in
• 1:23:14
  this process that most people don't.
• 1:23:17
  And they, they just, they, they don't know what happens to
• 1:23:19
  themselves. And before they know it, they
• 1:23:20
  took too much and they mixed too many things and they're gone.
• 1:23:24
  And if they would have. Had could I say something more?
• 1:23:26
  Someone was talking to me about suicide and OD ING and I said
• 1:23:30
  they're exactly the opposite and the reason is suicide is I don't
• 1:23:34
  have any hope anymore and I don't see any hope AOD ING is
• 1:23:39
  you still. One of the things I'm most
• 1:23:41
  jealous of addicts, it's weird is that they believe there's an
• 1:23:44
  answer to the problem and the rest of normal people like life
• 1:23:47
  is hard and there's no answer. We just doing life and addicts
• 1:23:51
  are like babies in a sense where they like I I believe there's an
• 1:23:54
  answer. So it's the the suicide person
• 1:23:58
  is going. I don't believe is an answer.
• 1:24:00
  I give up and the addict is saying I believe is an answer.
• 1:24:03
  I'm going to try another thing and I'm going to try another
• 1:24:05
  thing and maybe if I take a little bit more and I get
• 1:24:06
  there's a lot of hope in it, in the actual addiction.
• 1:24:09
  What what an interesting perspective.
• 1:24:11
  And in closing again, everybody, thank you for joining the none
• 1:24:14
  of your Business podcast. Please don't forget to like,
• 1:24:17
  comment and subscribe, follow along.
• 1:24:18
  Thank you, prime source, of course, for being behind the
• 1:24:22
  scenes and sponsoring everything till now.
• 1:24:25
  Sonny, this was amazing. We learned a lot.
• 1:24:27
  We learned and I think we want to have you back.
• 1:24:29
  I, I, I feel like there's so much we didn't even touch upon
• 1:24:32
  yet. And, you know.
• 1:24:33
  What would be nice, be pretty cool idea is if maybe you can
• 1:24:36
  come back on the podcast with someone who went through this
• 1:24:40
  program and hear their experience first hand, Hear it
• 1:24:43
  from them, from the From the Horses medal.
• 1:24:46
  Come on, Sonny's not a fan, but I think that that might be.
• 1:24:48
  And the world might if. You guys want to talk to
• 1:24:50
  somebody? I can give you somebody.
• 1:24:52
  I don't know if you need me on that one.
• 1:24:53
  You can just talk to them. All right, we'll see.
• 1:24:55
  All right, we'll see. I.
• 1:24:56
  Think it'd be better with, you know, on on that note, though,
• 1:24:59
  there's something that we've been toying around with for a
• 1:25:01
  while and we're asking people to recommend us someone that you
• 1:25:03
  think would be a good guest on the podcast and we're going to
• 1:25:07
  eventually follow through in those recommendations.
• 1:25:10
  We've been getting a lot. Who would be the one person that
• 1:25:12
  you would recommend to come on the None of Your Business
• 1:25:14
  podcast? If you I mean if you want in
• 1:25:17
  this topic. As long as it's growth
• 1:25:20
  personally or professionally and it's in a positive way and it
• 1:25:24
  could be something that we can debate, those are all the
• 1:25:26
  formulas to making our podcast successful.
• 1:25:28
  OK, so I I knew you were going to ask this because of here on
• 1:25:32
  the podcast, but what about Kedalia Miller from the
• 1:25:36
  Keshunovsi? He runs Keshunovsi.
• 1:25:38
  I can't believe his name didn't come up till now.
• 1:25:40
  That's yes amazing. Keshunovsi, for those of you
• 1:25:43
  that don't know, is educating parents, siblings, loved ones to
• 1:25:48
  what it is like to go through this process of having someone
• 1:25:52
  that's with addiction or dealing with challenges.
• 1:25:55
  And kudos to them and Godalia for everything that they've done
• 1:25:58
  and all the get togethers and. You should tell him that.
• 1:26:01
  You know what? You want me to call?
• 1:26:02
  Him. Yes, I want you to call him, get
• 1:26:03
  him on the line, put him on speaker, on the spot.
• 1:26:06
  Tell him you're on a podcast with Michael Greenfield and Ushi
• 1:26:09
  Schwartz and tell him your experience, how it was, and ask
• 1:26:13
  him if he'd join us. Not.
• 1:26:14
  Is this work in here like this? Yeah.
• 1:26:16
  As long as you make it louder. He he hears it, he might like
• 1:26:20
  it. Stephan's got things run.
• 1:26:22
  Oh yeah, Remember the first time we came together?
• 1:26:25
  Yes. Isn't that amazing?
• 1:26:26
  We blew up your. Podcast on my.
• 1:26:28
  Podcast. Yes, that was our first claim to
• 1:26:30
  fame about Podge. Hello.
• 1:26:31
  Gidalia, you're on the None of Your Business podcast with
• 1:26:35
  Michael Greenfield. I don't know if you know him,
• 1:26:38
  but I am. Is that all right?
• 1:26:41
  First of all, answer not hearing you.
• 1:26:45
  You're on the you're on the podcast with I'm on a podcast
• 1:26:49
  right now with none of your business podcasts with Michael
• 1:26:54
  and Ushi. What's your last name again?
• 1:26:55
  Ushi Schwartz, Ashi Schwartz, Michael Greenfield, You hear me
• 1:26:59
  or no one second. Let me see.
• 1:27:04
  They were asking me if I suggesting somebody who would be
• 1:27:08
  good for the podcast and I and I suggested you and they should
• 1:27:14
  talk to you talking about all the good work with Kashunavshi
• 1:27:17
  and stuff like that. And they said they put me on the
• 1:27:20
  spot, told me to call you. So what do you think?
• 1:27:22
  Or maybe they want to speak, I don't know.
• 1:27:24
  Hi, Gadalia. I'm just calling, all right?
• 1:27:28
  This guy is. Hi, how are you?
• 1:27:31
  I, I want you to know I've heard your name so many times and I'm
• 1:27:34
  looking forward to joining one of your weekends because I've
• 1:27:37
  heard how inspiring and educational it can be.
• 1:27:39
  So my name is Michael Greenfield.
• 1:27:41
  I'm here with Oshey Schwartz. We host a podcast called the
• 1:27:43
  None of Your Business Podcast, and we always ask our guests at
• 1:27:46
  the end who would they recommend to also bring value to our
• 1:27:49
  discussions. And Sonny picked none other than
• 1:27:51
  you, and I'm excited about that. What's your feeling?
• 1:27:53
  What do you what do you are? Are you OK to join us one of
• 1:27:56
  these days? Yeah, It's true.
• 1:27:59
  OK, That was easy. Where do you live, by the way?
• 1:28:04
  Barrow Park. OK.
• 1:28:05
  Very nice. Notorious bar.
• 1:28:07
  Notorious bar. My brother was a council member
• 1:28:09
  there a bunch of years ago. David Greenfield, You might
• 1:28:12
  recognize the name. So.
• 1:28:14
  So if you want to know what his twin brother looks like, come on
• 1:28:17
  up here. OK.
• 1:28:19
  All right, looking forward to meeting you.
• 1:28:22
  We're going to we're going to schedule it.
• 1:28:23
  We'll have Stefan be in touch with you and we're going to
• 1:28:25
  schedule it very, very soon. And I just want to say, and I
• 1:28:28
  just want to say really again, thank you and congratulations
• 1:28:32
  for everything you've done till now for the community.
• 1:28:34
  You're doing God's work. We really appreciate it take.
• 1:28:38
  Care of you will talk have a good.
• 1:28:40
  Job. Thank you.
• 1:28:44
  All right, and. All right, we'll.
• 1:28:46
  Speak. Thank you.
• 1:28:48
  All right, like I mentioned Ushi, that was an amazing,
• 1:28:50
  amazing episode. I learned a lot and we debated
• 1:28:55
  and we also bent a little bit, both of us.
• 1:28:59
  So I appreciate your patience and getting to know new people
• 1:29:03
  and people that I believe have a lot to offer in this world.
• 1:29:06
  And I want to say that, Sonny, you are my mentor.
• 1:29:09
  You are a person that I look up to when it comes to all
• 1:29:12
  challenges dealing with raising kids and all challenges with
• 1:29:16
  addictions. And I can personally attest to
• 1:29:19
  the fact that you have helped save lives of people that are
• 1:29:22
  close to me and that are arm's length away from me.
• 1:29:25
  And I can guarantee every listener that there are two
• 1:29:29
  steps away from someone that you affected personally.
• 1:29:32
  That's what I feel for all the things that you've done in this
• 1:29:34
  world, from our place to the village to to just all the help.
• 1:29:37
  That or, or one of the Pearlman's, I should say.
• 1:29:40
  Right. Average out.
• 1:29:41
  OK. Yeah.
• 1:29:42
  Out of nine of you, one of you were my roommate in yeshiva
• 1:29:44
  years ago. And so you have a fantastic
• 1:29:47
  family. I know most of you.
• 1:29:48
  Thank you so much for being here on the None of Your Business
• 1:29:50
  podcast. Was she anything else you'd like
• 1:29:52
  to close with? No.
• 1:29:53
  I mean, I think a lot has been talked about today and it's eye
• 1:29:56
  opening because, you know, a lot of us are sleeping on our beds
• 1:29:58
  very warmly during the winter, you know, coolly with the air
• 1:30:02
  conditioning island in the summer and minding their own
• 1:30:04
  business and doing their own thing and going about our lives.
• 1:30:07
  And there are people right around us.
• 1:30:08
  It's our neighbors, it's people in the family that are
• 1:30:12
  struggling that are going through really difficult times.
• 1:30:14
  And it warms my heart to just know that there are people out
• 1:30:17
  there that are looking out for them, selfless and sacrificing
• 1:30:20
  their own quality of life and their own time to lift other
• 1:30:23
  people up. And it's amazing.
• 1:30:24
  And I, I commend you. I really do.
• 1:30:26
  And it's, and again, it's not just you and other others, but
• 1:30:29
  you're at the helm. You're one of the leaders in
• 1:30:31
  this and you're doing an amazing thing.
• 1:30:33
  And May God give you the strength to continue and to
• 1:30:35
  always be able to help other people.
• 1:30:37
  I'm main. I have to mention by the way,
• 1:30:38
  the time that I reach Sani the. Most is at 1:00 in the morning.
• 1:30:42
  No, don't listen to that. Don't call me on one in the
• 1:30:45
  morning. Lie.
• 1:30:46
  It's a rap. Guys, thank you very much.