Latest / We! / I Feel Like I Should Be Able to Forgive, but I Can't — The Emotional Growth That Helped Me Heal the Wounds of My Past, Release the Pain, and Discover the Inner Peace I Was Looking For

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I Feel Like I Should Be Able to Forgive, but I Can't — The Emotional Growth That Helped Me Heal the Wounds of My Past, Release the Pain, and Discover the Inner Peace I Was Looking For · We!

0:01
SPEAKER_00: If you felt lonely, isolated, disconnected, with an empty feeling inside and just yearning for more, knowing something is missing, then this podcast is for you.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: So here's your host, Joe Mittigan.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to We.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: There are moments in life when we genuinely want to forgive.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: We know holding on to anger hurts us more than anyone else.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: We understand that forgiveness is supposed to bring peace.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: We've all read the books, we've listened to the advice, of course we prayed about it and told ourselves it's just time to let go.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: But somehow we can't.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: If you've ever whispered to yourself, why can't I just move on?
1:08
SPEAKER_01: This episode is for you.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: The truth is, forgiveness isn't difficult because we're weak.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: It's difficult because the wounds we're trying to heal often reach much deeper than we realize.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: We aren't simply letting go of painful memories.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: We're releasing broken trust, unmet expectations, lost dreams, sometimes the version of ourselves that was forever changed by what happened.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Real forgiveness doesn't begin by pretending the pain wasn't real.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: It begins by having the courage to honestly acknowledge it.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Today, we're going to explore why forgiveness can feel impossible, why trying harder often doesn't work, and how emotional healing creates the conditions where forgiveness becomes the natural consequence instead of something we force ourselves to do.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Because, folks, forgiveness is not about saying what happened was okay.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Not as something you owe someone else, but as one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: So wherever you are on your journey, thank you for allowing me to walk beside you once again.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: My name is Joe Mittig, and this is we, because healing doesn't happen alone.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Healing happens when we remember the we.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is one of those topics that I love to talk about because, in my opinion, it's probably one of the single most confused and misunderstood concepts that humanity goes through.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, the delusional ridiculousness, and I have to say it gently because I'm not going to get too worked up today, that forgiveness is simply like an action step.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: It's a flip of a button.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: You should just be able to.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: No, you can't.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: And no, you aren't.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: And no, you're not able to.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: And folks, I want you to hear right here in the first four minutes of this hour-long episode.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: If you can't forgive, please know you're okay.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna help you.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna tell you what I did to move into the forgiveness process and why I know it's not an action step.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: So hang around.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: This episode is a powerful one.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: And unlike most of the religions you're going to see out there, most of the preachers from the pulpit you're going to hear out there, most of the new thought movement people that say forgiveness, you just need to move on and let it go.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm here to say to you, if you can do that, fabulous.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: I applaud you.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: I think it's wonderful.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: For the other 99.999% of people that can't, I'm going to explain to you why you can't, why it's okay that you can't, and then what to do to start the process.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: So forgiveness ends up being the end result, not the desired action step.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And this is what this episode is all about.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been on a self-discovery journey.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: I just found my one of my original journals.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: February the 16th, 1990, is one of my first, if not my very first therapy session.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And that happened in a time in my life that in the previous fall, my grandmother, I was very close to.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: I was raised traditional Italian, where family meant everything.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Love of family was just foundation to everything.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: And my grandmother, my non, was the matriarch of an entire community.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: She was somebody that everybody turned to, everybody kind of looked up to, literally, and I was no different.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Part of the difference in my relationship with her is towards the end of my high school years and all of my college years, because my family moved from the north to the south.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: I lived with her in any of my vacation days.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I went to Purdue University, which is kind of middle of Indiana.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: I was raised in northern Indiana.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: So when I would go home on breaks, when I'd have weekends off, when I would, you know, celebrate holidays, or friends would have parties.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: I had a room in my non's basement.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: So I spent a tremendous amount of time with her.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: I really did.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: And it meant the world to me.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: And part of my forgiveness literally had to be after when she died and didn't say goodbye, I was mad for a really long time.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to tell that story here in a little bit because some of the craziest things that we can't forgive is because we're hurting, not because we're a bad person.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: We're still in pain around the experience, not because we're weak.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness happens as the consequence of healing the pain that was caused in the event.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Hear me.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is a consequence experience.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is not an action step.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is more of a noun.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: It describes your experience after taking numerous action steps.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: And for most of us, there were events that happened in our past when we were younger that caused us pain.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Now, does that mean that you're angry and pissed off and sad about everything that happened in your past?
7:26
SPEAKER_01: No, of course not.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Of course not.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: But in this episode, we're going to talk through that.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk through, we're going to kind of sort it out.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to give you literally the action steps I did so that the end result was forgiveness.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Today, in this past week, I've been, you know, kind of busy, I have to tell you.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Every once in a while, I go through periods of time where the world around me, the world I support, just goes through deeply difficult, emotional, growing experiences.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Not all on the depths of difficulty.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's in the grandness of greatness.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, my oldest son, he's loving life.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: He starts his baseball career literally, first meetings.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: He's probably in it right now as I'm making this recording.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: He's got his own apartment.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: He's living 90 miles from home, so close enough to visit, but definitely too far to come back and forth all the time.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: So he's independent.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: He's feeling great.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: A month ago, there was all sorts of chaos.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Now it's become the normal.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: He's done it 30 days, which is wonderful.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm super proud of him.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: My youngest, of course, you know, he just does his thing.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: He expands every day.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: His wisdom is far beyond his years.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you that life is really good in my home life, in my personal life.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And I support people who are going through some really deep challenges.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: They are.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I always want to have these shows about.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: I want to talk honestly about the difficult times.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: I do.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: And if I'm sad, you're going to know it.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: If I'm mad, you're going to know it.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: And I also want you to know that when I'm elated and I'm excited, I really am.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: And this past week, I've got all of that happening all at the same time.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I've openly said I will plan to be as open and as honest as I can, as intimate as I can.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: The topic of forgiveness is one of those topics where if I let myself, I can get really, really upset, angry, because the way the world perceives it, somebody who's already in a challenging spot and is hurting, but the world says, forgive anyways, and then they just spin in their own shame.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: There must be something wrong with me.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Everybody says I should and I can't.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: That's a shaming event.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: That's not a supportive event.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to tell some stories on how that why we're going to help heal that.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to give you answers to how to truly heal.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Go to my website, joemitiga.com.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Download my book, Filling the Void for free.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: We're actually starting a book club there, too, a literally three-month process of going through the book.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: It's all going to be available here soon.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Keep checking back.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: JoeMidiga.com.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: Filling the void is my first book.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: We've got several coming out.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And it talks all about this stuff in details, the things I did.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, as the Wii podcast is growing, I talk about all the time humanity is healing.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And I always want to celebrate countries around the globe.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm just a guy here in Atlanta, a man with a microphone.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: And to think that people in Canada and Norway and Australia and Japan and Hong Kong, for me to think that there are literally people around the globe listening to my voice, it's humbling.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just brings tears to my eyes.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: It's humbling.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: And I applaud all of you and thank you for being here.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: My podcasts are not easy.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: They're not.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: I know they're not easy.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: And they're necessary because the world is growing, the world is shifting, the world is changing.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: We're embracing a feminine side of ourselves at a rate faster than ever before.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: So I want to create a vehicle, a library of audios where you can go back and please know this.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Doing it by design.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: If you feel stuck next week, go back and listen to the videos on feeling stuck.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: If you can't let go, go back.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: There's numerous videos on that.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: If you're trying to heal and you can't, if you feel sad and you can't get out of it, go back and listen.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: And if you're having a great day, there's plenty of them on that too.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Gratitude to grace, one of my favorites.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: So please know that the We podcast as a concept, I'm creating a library of support points where I tell people all the time, let me keep you company, let my voice keep you company in your darkest days.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: Why?
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Because I know where you are.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Trust me.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: I spent seven years there and I understand dark.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: I do.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: And quite honestly, my seven years was 30 plus years ago pre-internet.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I always say this is where the generation to change, because there's so much more available support.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: People don't have to spin in misery like I did for six, eight, 10 weeks because no one around and no money and no one to hear me and no one to support me.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, those days are over, folks.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: We're here together.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And the more one person heals, the more another person heals.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: And collectively, that's what's happening.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: How do I know?
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Because the whole man in the microphone idea, the uniqueness of what the Wii Podcast is doing in the Apple Podcast world, it's because of all of you.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Your divinity is guiding you to my divinity speaking.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: I tell people all the time, my friends, my family, you know, I didn't ask to be placed on a global stage.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: I didn't, but I'm here.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: And why do I say that?
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Because right now I'm making this audio, and people literally in 14 countries are listening to it.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: And I'm here to give back.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm doing it.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: I have big goals of intentions of the Wii podcast.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: None of them are based on Joe.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Trust me, I have a beautiful life way it is right now.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: But when I see something broken, I can't sit still.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to fix it.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: One of my large goals, my global goal is to heal the water crisis that countries are in.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: Africa, the continent of Africa, 400 million people, no water.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, I am happy to say because of my very first project with Project Smile, that's my nonprofit.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a man who donated the money, and they not only built a well system for this community, he's there literally, as I'm speaking, building a school.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: 3,000 people now have water within four minutes of their house instead of 45 minutes out of a stream that the cattle drink out of.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: That's my ultimate goal with the Weave Podcast: create an exposure and help heal the physical challenges of the world.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: My emotional intent here is to help heal emotionally 100 million people.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's all of you.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
14:40
SPEAKER_01: I can't, Joe isn't going to heal the hundred million.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be you're going to hear something here that you're going to shift, you're going to change, you're going to say, Oh my God, I get it.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: He was right.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: I hear what he said, whatever the it is, and then you're going to tell somebody else.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And then they're going to tell somebody else.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Then they're going to tell somebody else.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: And eventually we'll hit 100 million.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: And from 100 million, it's not that hard to expand to a billion and then the globe.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: And that's the ultimate experience.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm doing it, truly.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, the concept of forgiveness, can you say something that humanity has just misinterpreted?
15:18
SPEAKER_01: It's just misinterpreted.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Because the whole concept of shifting a perspective from not able to forgive to forgive as if an action step, that entire concept happened when the new thought movement started in the 80s as a thought process.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: A thought.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: No, you're not.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Period.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay that you can't.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, I will caveat that.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Just because you can't forgive somebody doesn't give you permission to take your crap out on them.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Hear me.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is an emotional internal experience.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Your action steps are yours to take responsibility of.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: My podcast on Thursday is about helping people shift behaviors of the world that kind of created them.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: And that podcast on Thursday, you're going to want to listen to because it's all about people think, well, I'm going to forgive everybody else.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, the true thing is for you to feel serenity, you have to be able to forgive yourself.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: And I can pretty much guarantee you if you're not in a 12-step program and you've never done an eighth and ninth step, the action steps of forgiving self are probably not at the top of your list of things to do.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: And until that happens, there is no serenity.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: It's a BS line.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Serenity happens as a healing of self-forgiveness.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Also, today isn't about self-forgiveness.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Today is about helping you heal the reason you can't forgive, the reason you're holding on, the reason that the idea of forgiveness is so hard.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: And the reason it's so hard is because whatever it is that you're trying to forgive, when you think about it, you still feel pain.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: When you hear about it, you still feel pain.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: When you talk about it or reiterate it or think about it, you still feel pain.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's in that pain, the pain inside.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: And people say, Well, Joe, that happened 40 years ago.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I just need to let go of that pain and move on.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, how's that been working for you?
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Is my kind of smart ass reply.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: If it was that easy, that would be fine.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: And for some people, they just caveat it into a dark cavern in their belly and they move on.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Not really, it affects them somehow, somehow.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: The challenge with the entire concept and where we have to start, the process is helping people understand the we and then helping people understand you're multidimensional and help people understand you're on a spiritual path first, humanity second.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: So let me start there.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: What is the we?
18:35
SPEAKER_01: The we is Joe's perspective of each individual human being as a multidimensional three-part being: a higher self, a human self, and the inner self.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: The higher self is whatever you call your God, whatever you call it.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: Years ago, I called it F you, literally.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: That was my definition of a God.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: F you.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Now, did God ever care?
19:08
SPEAKER_01: No, God loved me unconditional.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: But that was Joe's definition.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: That's why I said in the beginning, I wasn't pursuing a God.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: No, I was pursuing that hurting.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And quite honestly, if I wouldn't have been hurting as bad as I was, I wouldn't be here today.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: That's just the truth.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: So I don't care where you are.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure, unless you're just pure atheists and it doesn't exist to you, then probably you're not on a podcast like this.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not sure where you are relative to a higher sense of you.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: But I don't really think there's another place on the other side of when you think of higher power, you think of F you, or because at that point it's just blank and you're not here.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna say that I can pretty much relate to wherever you are on the God idea, the concept of it.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Why do I say that?
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Because I went from an F you when I thought of the concept to now I consider myself a God guy.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: And both sides of that experience are pretty extreme.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: They are, and I don't care where you are in the center of it, I get it.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: I do.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: And why is that important?
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Because when we understand as a human being, as humanity, as a concept, each individual, you're not just an I, you're not just the ego, you're not just your human self, your higher self, human self, and inner self.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, what is the inner self?
20:39
SPEAKER_01: The inner self is the place where your emotional capacities live, the emotional side of you lives, the heartfelt conditions of your yesterday and your today.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: That's where the what the inner self means.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: I call it the inner child, call it what you're comfortable with.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: I like the concept of inner child because when I thought of myself as a little boy, it was easier for me to be nice to a little boy.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: That's why I did it.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: I learned that concept February the 16th, 1990.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Do the math, 36 plus years.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: So I have to constantly say, I am very practiced at the inner sense of self.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: I am.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I have the language for it.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: That's why I speak differently.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: That's why my message to the world is different.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: I never once ever on my conscious path, I never once asked myself, how do I control that voice?
21:42
SPEAKER_01: How do I control that hurt based, hate based, harm based voice?
21:46
SPEAKER_01: How do I control it?
21:47
SPEAKER_01: How do I I never asked that question?
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I was always guided to ask why do I have the voice, not how do I change the voice?
21:57
SPEAKER_01: New thought movement, positive affirmations.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Control your mind, the whole meditation concept of control the mind.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Does it work?
22:05
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: It causes calm for about 27 seconds.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Is that a bad thing?
22:10
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: But you wouldn't be here if you weren't pursuing additional information, additional process.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: And the additional information is all of the thoughts in your head that are unfavorable that you want to change, the source isn't in your head.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: It's in your heart.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Because ask yourself this question: Have you ever tried and needed to change the voice that says, I'm going to make a million dollars?
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Or I really love life.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Or I am so excited.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to a baseball.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: You don't try to change those voices.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: You don't.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: You say, okay, those are fine.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to change these other voices.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: I can't do it.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm too stupid.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm too stuck.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: I can't move forward.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: I can't forgive.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to change those voices.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, the positive affirmation concept, the reason it doesn't work is because it's like changing the band-aid.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: You can change the color of the band-aid all you want, but the wound is under the band-aid.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: The reason you have the voice is because there's a hurt underneath the band-aid, literally.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: And that's what the how-to process is.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: That's why the We podcast is considered an emotional growth, human transformation podcast.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Quite honestly, we're the number one ranked with that.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Why?
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And I have to caveat because there's not a whole lot of competition out there, quite honestly, because the stuff I talk about, the healing of it.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Now, if Mr.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Bradshaw, John Bradshaw, you know, the guy who introduced the inner child to the planet 50 years ago, if he had a podcast today, I can pretty much guarantee you that Mr.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: Bradshaw would be talking about dual-hand journaling, embrace the child, give a voice to the depths of yourself.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: How do I know that?
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Because that's where I learned it.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: I learned it from my counselor Nancy, who learned it from John Bradshaw.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, Mr.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Bradshaw, God rest his soul, he's a beautiful soul, has been gone for a while.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: 50 plus years of sobriety, but he's not around.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, do I consider myself a John Bradshaw?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: No.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: This man was educated, he's a global traveler, he was a doctor, he was a psychiatrist, he's all of the book learned, sobriety learned, and inner child worked.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: He was the full package.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Folks, I'm not that.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: I am not a doctor, I am not a researcher, I'm none of those things.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: I am you, and you are me.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: And quite honestly, that's why when you listen to me, if you knew me, and hopefully you'll get to know me, you'll see.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm just a normal guy.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: I am.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Nothing special about Joe.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Am I practice and all this stuff?
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I am.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: But I've come across people more spiritually connected to myself.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: That's a fact.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Most of you, especially you women out there, are more spiritually connected to your hearts than I am.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: That's an absolute fact.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: And how can I say that?
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Because most of you, even prior to your heart's healing and your wisdom catching up, you had gut instinct your entire life.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: I am working on the gut instinct thing literally after 35 years.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: I always say I'm kind of a slow learner.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm not kidding.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: This gut instinct concept that women are for a lot of women, it's your primary guidance system since you were little.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: And then you add the healing of the heart, and then you add spiritual wisdom, and there's a threefold whammy, gut instinct, healed heart, wisdom.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: That's a powerful person.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm practiced on two out of three.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll keep you updated on the rest.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: The concept of forgiveness, why is it so passionate for me?
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Is because I see people think they should be able to, and authority figures telling them they should be able to, and you need to, and what's wrong with you?
26:05
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you just move that?
26:07
SPEAKER_01: I see it a lot.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: I kind of poke fun at myself.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Not really.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm not an internet guy, I'm not a podcast guy, I'm not a YouTube person, I don't watch TV, I don't have a television.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Literally, 99% of my life is in silence.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: That's why I work big puzzles, by the way.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: But my sons, my sons taught me about the concept of a reel.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's kind of a cool thing.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure everybody on this podcast already knows what it is.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm a brand new real person.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: I haven't watched them now in, I don't know, 30, 60 days.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know how to get to it, to be quite honest with you.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: But, anyways, I'm on my on the internet and I'm doing stuff, whatever I was doing work, and a reel comes up.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I was like, what the hell?
26:53
SPEAKER_01: That's what he's talking about.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Click.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And would you unbelievable?
26:58
SPEAKER_01: If you don't believe in God, tell me how this possibly could have happened.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: The very first reel I listened to and I watched, literally in my 60s person, was the same reel with the same show host, with the same new thought leader shaming her still 30 years later.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: I saw that same episode 30 years ago, 25 years ago on TV, when I had a TV, my roommate had a TV, and I watched.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And this new thought movement said, You just have to let that go.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do?
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Hold on to that for the rest of your life?
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And the show host was talking about how when she was young, she had a grandmother that used to beat the shit out of her.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Excuse the French, beat her, hard, bad, not good.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Things that today, now these people are they're older than I am, so they've got to be in their 70s.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: So the behavior we're talking about was 60 years ago, where you could do whatever you wanted to a kid 60 years ago, and nobody cared.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't anybody's business.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And this particular person, this new thought movement person, she means well, she thinks she's helping, but you see the show host sitting there saying, like bewildered on national television because she can't.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Why?
28:27
SPEAKER_01: Because the adult knows, the adult in you understands.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: We get it.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: We've read the books, we've seen the movies, we hear the preacher, the adult understands intellectually, mentally.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: We should be able to, we need to, but we're not talking about an adult.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: In this particular case, you're talking about a seven-year-old child who is in this human who has never been given a voice, a seven-year-old child.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Hence the inner child, the inner sense of self.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Now, your humanity gets it.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: I get it, and I tell that little girl all the time, you're okay, you're okay.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: That was 50 years ago.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: But that's the adult projecting on her on her own child.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's say you've got a nine-year-old son or an 11-year-old daughter, and they're outside riding their bikes, having a great time, and they hit a rock and they skin their knee really hard.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, what are they gonna do?
29:35
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna come running inside, crying, hurting.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna say, Mommy, mommy, mommy, my knee, it hurts, it hurts, it hurts.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: I scraped it, it's bleeding, I'm scared, it's bleeding.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Now, a loving mom would sit there, hold their child, encourage their child, wipe it off, right, and let the child cry.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: But think about if you're this mom, it didn't hurt you that bad.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: That you wrecked on the bicycle 15 minutes ago.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't still be hurting.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, stop it.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: You're a big boy, stop hurting, move on, move on.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what people do to their inner child every minute of every second of every day because of the style in which humanity has projected forgiveness as if an action stop.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: A child hurts their knee, they need to be held until it stops hurting, and they need to cry until they're done crying, they need to be listened to until they're done speaking.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Then it's done.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Many years ago, many years ago, I had a 10-year-old nephew, and he was the middle boy, very sensitive kid.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: And he'd go out and he'd play, and he was a little more on the chunky side, so he wasn't as good as his older brother.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: And his little brother was faster than everybody, and he was just convinced because he could never keep up, then no one liked him.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, one day I happened to be there, and he came in and he said, Uncle Joe, they don't like me.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Honey, what happened?
31:18
SPEAKER_01: And then he sat down, I sat next to him and he cried and he cried and he cried.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: And then, because he kept saying, They don't like me, and I'm not this, I'm not good enough, I can't keep up.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: And he cried and he cried.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't, I didn't rescue him.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: I put my hand on his shoulder, said, Buddy, I'm so sorry.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: And do you know?
31:36
SPEAKER_01: When he was done, he said, Well, I feel better, I'm gonna go play.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: He went out and played.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Why do I give that story?
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Because there's an inner part of you.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: I can't forgive.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Why?
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Answer, you're hurting.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Not there's something wrong with you.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: When you hear yourself, when you feel yourself, when you're in the experience of I cannot forgive, it's because you're hurting.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I said in the intro, I hope through this episode you start identifying the I can't forgive as a red flag, not as a baseball bat to beat yourself up with.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Use it as a red flag.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And the process of getting into the pain, finding the pain first, you have to understand there is pain, inner pain.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Why?
32:33
SPEAKER_01: Because if the whole concept of forgiving, if it was there wasn't pain anymore, you wouldn't be thinking about, oh, I need to forgive such and such, or I need to forgive that person, or I need to whatever.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Why?
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Because 95% of the behaviors that happened when we were kids, we don't carry that forward in life and say, oh, I need to forgive that person because my third-grade school teacher put me fifth in line instead of third.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: No, being put fifth in line instead of third when you're a little kid probably hurts your feelings.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: But that isn't something as an adult you'd say, oh, I have to forgive her for.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is needed as an adult because something bigger, a more angst-filled event happened when you were young.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Some of those events are traumatic.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Folks, if you're in one of those experiences and you're trying to forgive somebody who literally crossed your boundaries physically, emotionally, sexually, if it's here and you're trying to forgive that, please get support.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Healing does not happen alone.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: I had support.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: I literally had support as I was healing the depths of my stuff.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: For the rest of us, right?
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Where it wasn't necessarily massively traumatic, but we had a mom who was ill and could never be there.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: We had a dad that was absent because he worked three jobs.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: We had a grandma that was kind of mean just because she was an old crotchet lady.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: For those types of people, for those types of events, the way you start the process is you have to identify the voices in your head that are telling you that you should be able to do something.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: The first step of all healing is A, understanding there's hurt to be healed.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we're past that.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Joe, I can't forgive because I'm hurting.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: How do I heal the hurt?
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, the first position of healing the hurt, you have to sit down, you have to listen to the voices.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: The first set of voices you're going to hear are the voices that live in the belief system that say, I should be able to.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: I should be able to heal.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I need to heal.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: I should be able to forgive.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: My preacher says forgiving is a virtue.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: I must be something wrong with me.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I'm so stupid, I can't forgive.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I'm so hateful, I can't forgive.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: I must be a horrible person because I can't forgive.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: All of those voices, all of those voices, which are your hurt pointing back at you, making you wrong.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: For an action step, that's not even an action step.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is not an action step.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is a state of being, it's not an action step.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Grieving is an action step.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Getting rage out is an action step.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Celebration, happiness is an action step.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is a state of being.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: It's not an action step, folks.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: It's a state of presence, it's a presence of being.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: It's like serenity.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Serenity is a presence, it's a state of being.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: That's what action step is.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's what forgiveness is.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: The first layer, the first levels, the first action.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: You have to listen and get all of the self-defeating voices out of your head.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: You need to write those self-defeating voices down.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, you need to tell somebody you do.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Is that easy?
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it's not easy.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: No, it's hard.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it can be very hard.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: And it's very necessary.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Why?
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Because if the only way you can get to the actual pain of the voice itself, the voices of the actual pain, you have to stop beating yourself up first.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: And we only beat ourselves up because we didn't wake up and say, oh, I should be able to forgive.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: That isn't the normal state of being.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: We wake up because society projects it on us as if society knows what the hell it's talking about.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Not on that concept, that's for sure.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: That's where I say I challenge human interpretation all the time.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Mr.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Bradshaw would have never said you should be able to forgive.
37:10
unknown: Mr.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Bradshaw would say, go journal with that little kid and see what she needs to say.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: So the first action of healing, the first action of the healing process is awareness.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: What's the awareness?
37:24
SPEAKER_01: The reason you can't forgive is you're hurting.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: That's an awareness.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: The next action step, which is all part of the spiritual growth, the emotional growth, is you have to listen to the voices in you making you wrong because you can't heal.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: The voices I just mentioned.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: The awakening that happens when you start hearing all of the different voices in your head that constantly make you wrong because you can't forgive, you'll start seeing where and why your self-esteem is so low.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: What is self-esteem?
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Self-esteem is the position in which we see ourselves, self-esteem.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, if you see yourself as a loser because you can't forgive, as you see yourself as a bad person because you can't forgive, if you see yourself as a hateful, hurtful, no good SOB because you can't forgive, where do you think your self-esteem is?
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Mirroring the part that badgers you because you can't forgive.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: And we have to get all those voices out of your head.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: At least start the process of getting them out of your head.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: How do you do that?
38:37
SPEAKER_01: Write them down.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Those are all the voices I can promise you that if someone is trying to teach you positive affirmations, that your voice is saying, I can't forgive, I can pretty much guarantee you if you were in a self-discovery, change your mind concept of some retreat or something, that would be one of the voices they would go after, saying, say over and over and over, I can forgive, I can forgive, I have forgive, I have forgive.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: That's like telling the little boy that leg who is bleeding and needs seven stitches, it's not hurting, stop it.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: That's what you're saying to yourself by trying to change the mind of the part that can't forgive.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: The part that can't forgive is because it's hurting.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: After we get on the other side of some of those voices, then we have to give a voice to the part.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And folks, for most of you, there's one or two people in your life.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: One or two.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, I had two really, three a little bit, but mainly two.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: The first was my dad, the second was my grandmother.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna explain the grandma one here in a bit because that was the most confusing one, I have to tell you.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: With my dad, he was just so easy to be pissed off at.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Why?
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Because he was, and I'm not gonna badger a dead man, right?
39:59
SPEAKER_01: But he was.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: He lived in this position of control everything and discipline everything and respect everything and blah blah blah.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: And he was never there, he was never around, he never came up.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: He came to one baseball game dressed at looking like a mafia member.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: There was no such thing as the mafia, but he still looked like one.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine how mortified I was at 12 years old when every other dad is out there in shorts and shoes and tennis shoes, even if they had the goofy ass socks on and the plaid shirt on?
40:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, you picture any type of dad out there, at least they all looked like they should be at a baseball game.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: How'd my dad show up?
40:42
SPEAKER_01: In a black suit with a black tie.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, there was plenty of reason for me to be angry with him as I got older.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: That's for sure.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And I was.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: I was really mad.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: As most of you know, I started my process, the emotional depths of my process when I got sober.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: I got sober back in '94, February the 13th, interaction with a friend.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Thought about it.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: When was the last time I'd gone 90 days?
41:13
SPEAKER_01: I said 14, 15.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, I'm gonna do it.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Seven days later, I made it seven days.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Seven days later, I'm sitting in a buddy's house, and the compulsion for drugs and alcohol literally had me by the throat.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: I sat there for 30 minutes.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: I finally stood up and I said, God, if I'm not supposed to drink or drug, I need your help.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: I feel a rush of energy run through my body, a tear comes down my left side of my face, and my compulsions for drugs and alcohol were literally spiritually removed in that moment in time.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: And walked out the door, didn't think anything of it.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: 54 days later, I had memories of being sexually abused as a kid.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: So one of my biggest stories, which I'm gonna tell that story here in a while, how I know for a literal experiential fact that forgiveness is not an action step, is the experience I literally experienced as the consequence of interacting and the pain that one of my perpetrators caused me.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Now, I will tell you, there is tremendous types of pain everywhere, all types of pain.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: The pain of abandonment, the pain of neglect, the pain of being yelled at, the pain of being physically abused, the pain of being shamed, the pain of being guilt.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: And one of the most piercing, most soul-killing pains is when you are sexually violated.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: Now, I will tell you, in my experience, unlike a mass number of people who are literally sexually body part to body part violated.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: And folks, if that is you and you're trying to forgive that person, please, dear God, get help.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: You are not able, don't have to do it alone.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: My abuse was not body part to body part.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: My abuse was with a stick.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Am I justifying it as less or more?
43:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Brutal, yes.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Did I know it at the time?
43:28
SPEAKER_01: No, I was so young, I know what the hell was going on.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: Did I even remember it?
43:33
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't until April the 15th, 1994.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: And why do I always bring that up?
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Because I say, folks, if me as a man can go through the depths and heal, so can you.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: Did I do it alone?
43:48
SPEAKER_01: No.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: Did I have help?
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Did I do these steps I'm telling you?
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Over and over and over.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: And my perpetrator, the abuse.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: I felt with my perpetrator was down the road, the very first voice.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Because now, when you get past the voices that are pointing in at you, I'm no good, I'm this, I'm that.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: Those are anger voices attacking you.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: And that attacking you is like you pouring gasoline on yourself.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Eventually, we want to hear the voices of the part that was hurt.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Literally, the part that was pain was caused.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: So for me, when I started learning about the inner child with my dad, my dad was the first person that I could put the anger voices outward.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Now, not at him in my own sacred space, my silence, my sacred silence.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: And when you get to those voices, prepare yourself because you've probably never heard them before.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: I effing hate you.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: I effing want to kill you.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: I effing whatever the it is.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Read my book, folks.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I write them all down, filling the void, joemitiga.com.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Get the book, read it.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: You can follow along with what I did.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, in the beginning, I would hear those voices and I would just shame myself.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Jesus, I must really be a miserable SOB.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: Look at all these critical, hateful voices.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: And my sponsor Nancy, my counselor Nancy, that's why I say get help.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Because Nancy was my help.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: She said, Joe, that isn't being critical, that's being honest.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: Hear me, folks.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: If you hate somebody, it's being honest.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Now, please understand, just because your seven-year-old hates your dad doesn't mean your 50-year-old can't love him.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: It's not an either-or, it's an altogether.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: You are multidimensional, folks.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Multidimensional.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: There's the human you hire you, but then that inner you, there's many different aspects in the inner you.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: And yes, your seven-year-old can hate somebody while the rest of you love them.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Does that sound like an oxymoron?
46:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's not human, it's not of your humanity.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: This is emotional growth, not human growth.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: This isn't personal growth.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: This is emotional growth.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: And there is a difference.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: What is the difference?
46:32
SPEAKER_01: Personal growth is when your adult self gets to share her viewpoints or his viewpoints and gets better, gets wiser, gets more connected.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Personal growth, great thing.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: Emotional growth is when you give a voice to your darkest parts, when you give a voice to your deepest parts, when you give a voice to the part in you who's hurting.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: It's just like the little boy that comes in from the bicycle rack.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: He just needs a mommy to sit there.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, folks, you didn't have a mom or a dad, or you wouldn't be on this podcast that could sit there during your pain, or you wouldn't be on the podcast.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And this is what we're talking about is stuff that happened 30 years ago.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: For some of us, it was 60 years ago.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Does that mean it's still not bothering you?
47:16
SPEAKER_01: No, it means it's literally bothering you now.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: So you become the loving adult for the inner you in a way that 50 years ago nobody was.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: You become that loving adult.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: And what do you do?
47:31
SPEAKER_01: You start dual-hand journaling.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: You let that part of you, the little kid in you, speak.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: And when you let it speak, it's going to say the truth.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, it's going to probably say, I'm scared.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm scared.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm scared.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm scared.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm scared.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: And all you do is empathize.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: All you do is say, It's okay.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Many men.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: I hear so many different blurbs, right?
48:05
SPEAKER_01: Where I just came across a little thing.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: I was checking my Instagram.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Follow me by the way on social media, folks.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: I've got my social media's out there.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: You're going to see most of my social media is about promoting Project Smile.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: But I saw this little video on some on a friend's page where he's talking about how men are just a piece of work because of women, and women have to do this, and women have to do that because of men, because of men.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: And I keep waiting, like, sir, are you going to tell men what to do?
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Or you're just going to bitch and complain about what men don't do.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: I keep waiting for somebody to tell a man what to do.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, fellas, I'm telling you right now what to do.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: If you're mad and you're taking it out on your wife, I'm asking you to please stop.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: Get a piece of paper.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: Write down all those voices that you want to project at your wife.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Write it down and then go get a bat and let it fly.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Be alone.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Make sure no one's in the house.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: Go to a friend's house.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Go to the football game while your buddies are drinking and cheering.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: You go in the other room with a baseball bat and beat the bed.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: And I don't care if you're pissed off at your wife.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: That's fine to be angry at your wife.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: It's not fine to go rage at your wife.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: No.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: If you're mad at her, great.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: Go in the bedroom at your buddy's house when they're drinking and partying, where they're celebrating the football game, you go into the bedroom for a few minutes with a wiffle ball bat and just let it fly.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: You have to learn how to get your emotion out in a healthy way.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: I call it sacred silence.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: Now, sacred silence doesn't mean you don't hear anything.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: Sacred silence means there's no outside influence, there's no outside words.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: Silence means no outside, which gives you plenty of time for inside.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: So, men, if you're angry, write it down.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: That blankety blank blank, that blankety blank be this, f her, blank her, f this, blank that, whatever it is.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: Fellas, write it down on a piece of paper first, and then go get that baseball bat.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: You watch how much better you feel.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Because you can say whatever you want.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: It's your sacred place.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking, well, you know, I have so much rage, I don't want to put that anger out into the world.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: A buddy of mine told me one time, he says, you know what?
50:24
SPEAKER_01: The universe is so powerful, the moon is so powerful, it lifts the ocean.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so the gravitational pull of the moon energetically lifts an entire ocean.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking, yeah, I guess the universal flow can lift an ocean, it can probably absorb my pipsqueaky little rage.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Even though it's the world to you, fellas, the universe doesn't care.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: The universe is here to absorb your rage when it comes out in a healthy way.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: A healthy way.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: And keep that to yourself.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: Unless you have a buddy that wants to rage with you, there ought to be men rage parties.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm not kidding.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Hey, fellas, let's have a beer, relax a little bit, take a bed, take all the pictures of the people you don't like and go beat the crap out of them on the bed.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: Why?
51:14
SPEAKER_01: Because that energy's in you.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: Why?
51:17
SPEAKER_01: Because you didn't you weren't given the emotional needs you met as a little kid either.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: Months and months and months and months, I got my rage out.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: Am I telling anybody on this podcast you're going to take months?
51:32
SPEAKER_01: No.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: My process was unique.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: It happened 35 years ago, and there was no support.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm telling you that literally, men, if you just got in the habit of once a week going to a buddy's house who understands or just doesn't give a shit, he's drinking beer, doesn't care what you do in his bedroom, take a wiffle ball bat and you start beating the bed of a picture, take your wife's picture.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: She would rather you take your anger out on her picture on the bed in the bedroom than out on her.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: Why?
52:07
SPEAKER_01: Because you know what?
52:08
SPEAKER_01: People are put in our path to push our buttons so we can spiritually grow.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: Being angry at your spouse, does that mean you don't like them?
52:15
SPEAKER_01: No, it means you love them.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Saying it means nothing, showing it means everything.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: When you learn how to take your anger out in a healthy way, you're showing somebody you care, you're showing somebody you love them, literally.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's the key.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have more and more episodes literally on this, and I'm gonna talk to men because women are they're just more in touch with their feelings.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: Most now.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: On the other side, most women start with their grief.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: And by the time they get to anger, it's a scary thing.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, big boy, you don't have to be worried about being scared of your anger.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: You already know how to do it.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Get it out.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: Let's just do it in a healthy way.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: Because sooner or later, you're gonna want that wife for yours when you're bent over in pain because the emotion underneath that hurt, that rage is pain.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna want a wife sitting next to you holding your hand while you're grieving.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: I promise you.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: That would have made my path a lot easier.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: I was always in isolation.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: So the emotional growth part of the healing process is learning how to get your emotions out in a healthy way, healthy way.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: And that is in sacred silence.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: Because in sacred silence, the universe absorbs all the energy, but it comes out of you into the universe, poofo, gone.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: And the more you get it out, the more you're gonna feel better.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you your self-worth, because when you have all those voices in you and you judge them as wrong, the value called you, how you feel about yourself.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: I hate him, I hate this person, I hate that person, I'm so mad at this person, I can't stand this, but your self-worth gets so destroyed because all of the emotion that you have that's buried in you gets judged, gets blamed, and then gets suppressed.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: And then you listen to influencers out there say, you can control your reaction, just move on.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many times I want to come through the screen and say, sir, if he could control his reaction, he'd already done that.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: It's not true.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not saying there aren't people that have done it, one-tenth of one-tenth of one percent.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: But I'm talking about the rest of us, the 99.9, the people on this podcast right here.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm telling you, you might not be able to control your reactions, but you can and you do have the availability to control where you project your reactions.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: Hear me.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying don't react.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm saying don't project your reaction.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: If you're angry, go get safe and get it out.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: It's fine to get reactionary of anger.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: It's not fine to take the anger out on your wife, it's not fine to take your anger out on your dad, it's not fine to take your anger out on another human.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: It's fine to take your anger out in a healthy way because reaction is trigger most of the time.
55:21
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you that the more I got my rage out, the easier it was for me to be around my dad.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: It just was.
55:28
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you from the relationship I had with my dad.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: I've said it on other podcasts, I hated him.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: I did.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: Now, does that mean I didn't love him?
55:36
SPEAKER_01: No, I did.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: He was my idol.
55:37
SPEAKER_01: I looked up to him my whole life.
55:38
SPEAKER_01: Talk about confusing.
55:40
SPEAKER_01: You hate somebody and love them all the time in an unconscious state.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: I just knew I was nuts.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: I would always say, No wonder I drink so much.
55:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, drinking, you don't get to hide under alcohol anymore.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work anymore.
55:52
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you for an absolute fact that the more I got my anger out in a healthy way, I'd be around my dad doing the same goofy ass stuff he would do.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't feel angry.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: Because with my dad, I never felt sad.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: I felt mad, angry.
56:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, there's only so much anger, and all that suppressed anger in me, when I would see him do something goofy, I would get angry and think it was because of him.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, what I would do is I'd take that, those goofy things that he would do into my space, and in a healthy way, I'd get that anger out, rage, say whatever I want to be as vulgar, as violent, as vile as you want.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: Why?
56:34
SPEAKER_01: Because the universe just absorbs that and it gets out of you instead of staying in.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you the forgiveness that happened with my dad.
56:44
SPEAKER_01: Was I ever emotionally ebb and flow in an emotional, heartfelt communion with my father?
56:49
SPEAKER_01: No.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if he had it in there.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that I did either.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: But was I mad at him all the time?
56:56
SPEAKER_01: No.
56:56
SPEAKER_01: Could I see why he was the way he was all the time?
56:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: So my forgiveness of my own father happened as a consequence of many releases of anger.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: And then one day I just realized he didn't bug me as much.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel so mad around him all the time.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: Had he changed?
57:16
SPEAKER_01: No.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: As he got older, it's probably worse.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: But did I change?
57:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I did.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: So the forgiveness relative to my dad was because I got my anger out on the other side.
57:29
SPEAKER_01: And when I was around him and I didn't feel anger anymore, the state of presence I was in was forgiveness, meaning I don't hurt when I'm around him anymore.
57:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: I felt okay when I was around him.
57:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel angry.
57:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel disappointed.
57:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel, I don't feel anything like that.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: So there was a sense of forgiveness.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: It was a sense of letting it go.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: Why?
57:55
SPEAKER_01: Where did I let the it go with him?
57:58
SPEAKER_01: No, I let the it go in the releasing of the anger in my sacred place.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: That's where the letting go happened in the expression of the anger.
58:10
SPEAKER_01: What was I doing prior to expressing that anger?
58:13
SPEAKER_01: I was holding on to it.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: I was stuffing the anger down.
58:17
SPEAKER_01: I was making myself wrong for it.
58:20
SPEAKER_01: That's where the holding on comes.
58:23
SPEAKER_01: When you give yourself permission to let it out, that's where the letting go happens, literally.
58:28
SPEAKER_01: The consequence of letting go of the anger through expression in a healthy way, I'd be around my dad.
58:34
SPEAKER_01: No more anger.
58:35
SPEAKER_01: My non, I called my grandmother, we called her non, Italian word for non.
58:41
SPEAKER_01: I was so freaking mad at her that she died.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: How the effing dare you die on me?
58:48
SPEAKER_01: I was in my upper 20s at this point.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: She was 85 and she missed the curb, literally.
58:56
SPEAKER_01: She was healthy, she was active, she was whatever.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: She's the matrix of the community.
59:00
SPEAKER_01: I called her up, landline, pre-cell phone, folks.
59:05
SPEAKER_01: For those of you that don't know what a landline is, ask somebody older.
59:08
SPEAKER_01: A landline called her up.
59:10
SPEAKER_01: The very last thing she said to me was, Joe, thanks for calling.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, you know, it felt pretty good.
59:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, there was a smile in her voice that always caused my heart to feel a little better for at least a little bit.
59:23
SPEAKER_01: I would think about that.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for calling, Joe.
59:25
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for calling.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: And that wasn't an unusual term.
59:28
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't talk to her all the time on the phone.
59:31
SPEAKER_01: But two weeks later, I found out she freaking died.
59:34
SPEAKER_01: And for oh, at least two years.
59:38
SPEAKER_01: At least two years.
59:39
SPEAKER_01: Prior to her funeral, used to, it took me two bottles of Jack Daniels a night, five nights in a row, just to touch the grief.
59:45
SPEAKER_01: I was a roofer at the time.
59:47
SPEAKER_01: We had a 10,000 square foot building.
59:49
SPEAKER_01: I would go out, I would never wear a shirt, I'd wear long pants, the sweat line, the salt line of my pants would always determine how hot the day was.
59:57
SPEAKER_01: I'd go out in the middle of this 10,000 square foot building with two bottles of Jack Daniels to drink until a little bit of feeling would come back.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_01: That's how disconnected I was from my emotion.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: And because she meant the world to me, she did.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_01: And for a 26-year-old, 27-year-old to lose somebody that was so special, it's freaking hard.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_01: And it was even harder because I didn't know how to grieve, you know.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_01: So I did the best I could.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't take my shit out on people.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_01: I really didn't, not too much, anyways.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_01: I took two bottles of alcohol to just calm the crazy enough to I could relax and just grieve a little bit.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't until I was at the funeral, my little nephew is probably two or three, looked up at me and said, Uncle Joe, where's Big Non?
1:00:49
SPEAKER_01: And I grieved.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: That was the first grieving that I did that wasn't alcohol-induced.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_01: And I grieved for a few minutes after that driving home.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_01: I was so freaking mad.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_01: I was angry.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_01: Why was I so angry, folks?
1:01:05
SPEAKER_01: Because anger was easier, anger was simpler, anger was more accustomed.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_01: Joe was more accustomed to being angry.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: What was I really experiencing?
1:01:16
SPEAKER_01: Deep painful hurt and loss.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_01: And I just I can't explain it.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_01: It felt like death.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: And instead of, I wasn't practiced enough.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't practiced enough to be able to feel my feelings.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't, and the environment wasn't around safe enough.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_01: No one knew what the hell to do.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_01: Everybody was handling it their own way.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_01: There wasn't the concept of emotional support, at least not for me.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_01: Now we're talking in the 80s, you mean a long time ago, early 90s.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: And because of that, I sat there one day and I hit a bottom.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_01: I need help.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_01: And that was the spot where I said, I need help.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: Why?
1:02:03
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm sitting there, the anger didn't work anymore, the drugs didn't work anymore, the alcohol didn't work anymore, the pain was unbearable.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: I sat at my mom's house and I said, I need help.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_01: And she got me to therapy February the 16th, my first session.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_01: I introduced to the inner child.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_01: So literally, my non's passing and the emotion and the alcohol and everything was so huge that I eventually got to the place where nothing was working and the pain was still there.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_01: And it was because of that, then I reached that spot of surrender.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I tell people all the time, folks, you can't help somebody who isn't ready to be helped.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_01: The codependents out there, the loving wives, the loving husbands that see people drinking themselves to death, you can't do anything until they're ready.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_01: How do I know?
1:02:55
SPEAKER_01: Because that was me.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_01: I was the person on the other side.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't ready.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_01: You could have said anything you wanted to me.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: You could have told me you love, I didn't care.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't ready until that spot and time where I, Joe, said, I need help.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: So, as brutal as it is to watch somebody in their pain create space, you get safe and create space.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_01: They will figure it out.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: There is so much support now that they will figure it out.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: They will.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: Now we're talking 1990 is when I started therapy.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: And I was introduced to the inner child, but it was all in my head.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: And did it work?
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: Did hypnosis work?
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: It gave me relief.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_01: I could function.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: Did I stop drinking and drugging?
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: I drank and drugged every day, literally.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: Drug meaning marijuana.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, fast forward a few years, that's when I was introduced to my counselor slash sponsor Nancy, who was a massage therapist.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: She brought me into my body.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_01: And it was brought into my body literally, not just figuratively, but consciously in my body, is where eventually I felt feelings.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_01: After being sober and after my sexual abuse memories, that's when I started.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_01: That was the first days of my seven years of darkness, mid-April 1994.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: And I moved to Gainesville, 50 miles away, nobody around, lived in a business district, literally business district.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_01: So at night I could walk out there.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_01: There wouldn't be a human being within three or four miles.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_01: It was business over the weekends and at night.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_01: And I needed that because I needed a safe place to get all my anger out.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: Broke the head off of a$40 shovel, so I had a big shovel handle, big tall ceilings.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: I would beat so much that my hands would get blisters.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_01: I literally found a pair of leather gloves.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_01: So, fellas, I know what you're going through.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_01: I understand the anger in you.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: I do.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: And I understand the normal is take it out on your spouse.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm asking you, it's time to spiritually awaken to another solution.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_01: It's time to emotionally grow into another solution to your anger.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_01: Because all it does when you take anger out on another human, it just then piles up with remorse.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you can feel it or not.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you can feel it or not.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: 100% of the time when we take our anger out on somebody, remorse is our internal reaction.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_01: It is.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_01: So let's stop the remorse.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_01: Learn, find a safe place, get it ahead of time.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: And no, ladies, I'm sorry, you can't create their safe place for them.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_01: Or men, you can't create your safe place for women.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: I can't really speak.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: That much from women because I'm not a woman.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_01: I can speak from the man's position a lot.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_01: I did it, fellas, so can you.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: I did it for months and months and months and months.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_01: So, fellas, you can do it for 15 minutes once a week.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_01: I promise you, your entire life will change.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: If you figure out a way to get your anger out on a bed using a plastic bat, if you got big ceilings, get yourself a shovel and be with a shovel for a while.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_01: 15 minutes a week, you watch how your life changes, because mine did.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_01: Eventually I got to my grief.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_01: And I would grieve and I would grieve and I would grieve.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_01: And it was the loss of my nan that caused so much of the grief.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_01: And I would just sit there in the middle of freaking nowhere with nobody around and just grieve.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: And I would listen to music.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: Back then it was a cassette tape.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: I would listen to music because music kept me company.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: I had nothing else.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: I had no one else.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: I listened to music.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_01: Now when my dad died, Amy Manford, I listen.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful opera singer out of Australia.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_01: I listened to her music a hundred times.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_01: It just helps me keep my heart open, keeps me company.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: Music.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_01: When it's time to grieve, folks, for Joe, I used music.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_01: Fellas, give it a shot.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_01: Find yourself some headphones, find yourself a safe place, put some music on that tweaks your heart, and then just sit there and grieve.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: You've got 15 minutes.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: You can do it.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_01: Anger than grief.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, if you got in that routine, 15 minutes of anger and five minutes of grief a week, your life will change.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: Your life will change.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_01: The last thing I'm going to talk about and how I know for the absolute that forgiveness is not an action step, it's the consequence of taking action steps.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: One of my perpetrators.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_01: Now you have to understand, I was six or seven.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_01: These young men were 16, 17, and they had a stick, pulled my pants down and did crazy shit with a stick, right?
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: Abusive, really abusive.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_01: And it caused a part of me, I'm sure, at the time to fear life and to be afraid and not to be one alone, all of that.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_01: Was that dominating in my world?
1:08:34
SPEAKER_01: No, it wasn't.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: But when I got to my grief, literally, then one day out of freaking nowhere, the seven-year-old comes to me.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_01: And my seven-year-old would say, Why did they do that to me?
1:08:53
SPEAKER_01: What did I do that they would do that to me?
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: So many of us, we carry this deep burden of guilt and shame as if we did something wrong.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: And I will never forget.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: And I heard that voice, precious, and I am big, strong, I'm nuts, I'm grieving and raging all the time.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_01: And it literally brought me to my knees.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know what to say back then.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_01: I had no real loving adult.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_01: My loving adult caused safety, just kept people away so I could be safe, so I could grieve freely and not be embarrassed.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_01: Because quite honestly, grieving is embarrassing, was not anymore, but it used to be.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_01: And I just kept hearing my little kids say, What did I do?
1:09:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, what did I do wrong?
1:09:51
SPEAKER_01: And that deep little kid experience is because as a child, you don't have intellect.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_01: As a child, you can't figure out trauma.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_01: As a child, you can't figure out why mommy's not there and daddy's always gone.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_01: You can't figure it out.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_01: So a child in their human nature position is narcissistic.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_01: A child, when they're young, the world revolves around them.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_01: They don't have the conscious awareness for the world to be anything except about them.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: That's a normal, healthy state for a little kid.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, when you're abused, a lot of times the protection mechanism of your own grief is blaming self.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_01: And why is that?
1:10:39
SPEAKER_01: Because when you blame yourself, you're in control of something.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: Hear me, folks.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_01: When you blame yourself, that gives you the capacity to control something.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: Because the opposite of control is powerlessness.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_01: And when you're being violated in a way, there is no deeper painful experience than the powerlessness of you can do nothing.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: And numerous nights I got to that powerlessness, numerous nights I got to that grave, numerous nights I stayed in depth and screamed and yelled and made it through.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_01: Now, I am not suggesting if you are reaching that to do it alone.
1:11:33
SPEAKER_01: Folks, this isn't 1990 anymore.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_01: There are people around everywhere.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_01: I am suggesting that you get the voices out of your head that are blaming you.
1:11:44
SPEAKER_01: You let the little kid get a voice, and by the angry, hurtful voices, and eventually give a voice to the little kid.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: Because toxic shame, you just definitely know there's something wrong with you.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_01: Toxic guilt, no matter how good things are, you feel like something you did something wrong.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: Toxic shame, something wrong with you.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_01: Toxic guilt, you did something wrong.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_01: I had both.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_01: You say, I'm sorry and I'm here.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry and I'm here.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry and I'm here.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_01: That's what you say.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_01: Not fix, not oh my gosh, oh, you didn't deserve it.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_01: None of that.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry and I'm here.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_01: One of these days, women, you're gonna have a man grieving next to you.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_01: He does not want to hear you're sorry.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_01: He wants to know you're sitting with him.
1:13:00
SPEAKER_01: That's what he wants.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_01: I can promise you.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: 99% of the time, typically, men don't want their head held, they want their hand held.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_01: And unlike women, who the approach is different for a lot of women, a lot of women are more available in a softer position to literally be held.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_01: Numerous people I've done both with, and it's different.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_01: It is.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's where I learned it.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_01: I learned how to do it with my own little kid.
1:13:29
SPEAKER_01: And I would just sit there and say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_01: And then eventually, the little kid in me had a voice long enough, was able to say why, why.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not talking why once or twice, I'm talking why two, three, four hundred times.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_01: This happened over a several week period of time.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_01: And then eventually, my little kid realized there was no why.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_01: He didn't do anything.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_01: And when he kind of let go of the why, he went into the pain.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_01: And when I went into that pain, that is not easy pain.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_01: That's I can't freaking breathe pain.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_01: That's what that pain is.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_01: And if I can go through it isolated in a freaking building, all by myself with no help and no water and no food, you can too.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_01: Why do I share those stories to share that Joe's so freaking special?
1:14:25
SPEAKER_01: No, Joe did it all wrong.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_01: Joe did it in isolation, Joe did it with no one around.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know any better.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm telling you, you can do the it differently.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_01: There's a world of people that will sit with you while you get to the depths of your pain right here, right now.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_01: A world of people.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_01: When you get there, have someone help.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: And if you're somebody like me that doing it with just myself was safer, I use music.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_01: I put headphones on.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_01: Now back then I didn't have headphones.
1:14:59
SPEAKER_01: It was a cassette player, but I'd rewrite that cassette, play the same songs over and over again.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_01: And over time, when I felt that I can't breathe pain long enough, over time, then there'd be more anger, then there'd be more confusion.
1:15:15
SPEAKER_01: But I gave a voice to the darkest part of me.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_01: In Joe's world, the part of me that was violated was truly probably my deepest, darkest part, the part of me in the most pain.
1:15:32
SPEAKER_01: Plenty of neglect from my father, plenty of abandonment from my mother, plenty of loss from my grandmother passing.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_01: Those are human experiences that we all go through and we can all heal.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_01: Trauma is different.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_01: And if I can bulldoze through it like I bulldoze through it, so can you.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I share the story.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_01: How that story ends up.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm probably 10 or 12 years sober now.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_01: And I just happened upon the sister of one of the perps.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_01: And I said, So how is John?
1:16:10
SPEAKER_01: Which is not his real name.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_01: I said, How is John?
1:16:12
SPEAKER_01: He said, Oh no, Joe.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: John just had a horrible life, you know, moved to California and was addicted to heroin, liquid heroin most of his life, homeless most of his life.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_01: He would work on a ship.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_01: He would go, he was a mechanic, a diesel mechanic.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_01: He'd go out on a ship on these big cruise ships, these big tanker ships that would be out to sea for two years.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_01: And he said, you know, he just had a horrible life.
1:16:43
SPEAKER_01: Come to find out later that he was abused violently and maliciously by a family member his entire young life.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_01: And then she went on to say, she said, you know, I said, so how is he?
1:16:56
SPEAKER_01: She says, Oh no, Joe, he died.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_01: I said, really, what happened?
1:17:01
SPEAKER_01: She said, well, he was riding, he was riding a motorcycle.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_01: And he's going around a curve in California, the cliffs.
1:17:13
SPEAKER_01: And his motorcycle, he, you know, probably drunk or whatever, he hit the gravel, and his motorcycle slid down the side of a mountain.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_01: And she said, the wreck didn't kill him, Joe.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_01: Exposure did.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_01: And I said, What?
1:17:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you mean?
1:17:30
SPEAKER_01: She said, Yeah.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_01: Autopsy said he sat down there for five days.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_01: Five days.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_01: And eventually exposure killed him.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_01: It was in that moment that I realized that I could see this man as a man who was hurting.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_01: Not a man who hurt me.
1:17:56
SPEAKER_01: That's forgiveness.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_01: I could see this man as a man who was hurting, not a man who hurt me.
1:18:09
SPEAKER_01: And that's how I know forgiveness is not an action step.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_01: That took me a lot of releases to get there.
1:18:15
SPEAKER_01: That took me a lot of prayer to get there.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_01: That took me a lot of grieving and raging and support to get there.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_01: I got there because I had the courage to follow, hear the voices, get them out of my head, let the angry voices come out, let the little kid have a voice, and then let that little kid grieve.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_01: And over that period of time, when I reached that spot and I could see it, and I grieved, and I grieved, and I grieved.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_01: I grieved because I said, nobody deserves to die like that.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_01: Nobody.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_01: So in turn, the depths of me weren't hurting anymore.
1:19:32
SPEAKER_01: And when the depths aren't hurting, there's no reason to hold on.
1:19:37
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not holding on, the consequence is forgiveness.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_01: Folks, if you can't forgive, please understand it's okay.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is not an action step.
1:19:51
SPEAKER_01: Forgiveness is happens as the consequence of taking action steps.
1:19:57
SPEAKER_01: And if you leave this podcast today, I hope you understand because all of us have those people, all of us have those experiences that we wish we could just move on to.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_01: But when you can't, instead of making yourself wrong, use the I can't do it as the red flag that says, something in me is hurting, some part of me is hurting.
1:20:19
SPEAKER_01: The spiritual awakening that starts the process of healing is shifting from the belief of I can't forgive, so there's something wrong with me, to the awareness of I can't forgive because some part is hurting.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_01: When you move into the some part is hurting, now you're on the path of healing the hurt.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_01: And when the hurt is healed, the consequence is forgiveness.
1:20:47
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here, everybody.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_01: These topics are hard, they're hard to share.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_01: I know it has to be hard to hear.
1:20:56
SPEAKER_01: I hope you all know how much I care, how much I love, how much I look forward to meeting you, how much I just have a passion to tell the world that if I can freaking do it, anybody can do it.
1:21:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm not special.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_01: People are doing it a lot faster.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_01: And together, we're healing.
1:21:19
SPEAKER_01: Together, we're changing.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_01: Together, we're truly healing humanity one smile at a time.
1:21:28
SPEAKER_01: And from around the world, I want to welcome you to We.