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Book Club: Hummingbird · Stuff Mom Never Told You

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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff
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Speaker 1: Will Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And today for
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Speaker 1: our book club, we're talking about Natalie Lloyd's twenty two
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Speaker 1: award winning book, Hummingbird. It is a young adult novel
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Speaker 1: that features several poetry sections. It is heartfelt and magical.
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Speaker 1: Samantha and I were just talking about it, and we
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Speaker 1: were both dropped tears by.
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Speaker 2: Yes, it's defy different reasons, but yes, I feel.
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Speaker 1: Like similar ish reasons. But you had a more specific
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Speaker 1: reason than I did. Yes, what we will talk about.
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Speaker 1: You also listened to it via audio book yes, read.
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Speaker 3: By Natalie Lloyd.
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Speaker 2: And I don't know if this is somewhat autobiographical in
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Speaker 2: that like she wanted to be on the stage as
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Speaker 2: well or not, which is a part of the story,
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Speaker 2: because she did a great job. She did a great
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Speaker 2: job in doing voices, which I was very surprised by,
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Speaker 2: and she did she's rum Tennessee Chattanooga's but not too
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Speaker 2: far from us. Hello, but like, yeah, her accent was
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Speaker 2: on point.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, So I'm kind of jealous in that because
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Speaker 1: there are a lot of fun sayings in this in
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Speaker 1: this book, so good and uh as the date of
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Speaker 1: publications suggests. Spoilers. Spoilers throughout if you're interested in reading it.
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Speaker 1: The story follows all of Miracle Martin, a twelve year
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Speaker 1: old girl with O I or Osteogenesis imperfecta. Before we
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Speaker 1: get into the plot, I wanted to read a quote
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Speaker 1: from the author. Like Olive Martin, the protagonist of Hummingbird,
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Speaker 1: I was born with a brittle bone disease called osteogenesis imperfecta.
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Speaker 1: Oh I oh I means my bones break very easily.
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Speaker 1: Like Olive, I used a wheelchair or walker throughout middle
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Speaker 1: and elementary school. In most of my childhood photos, I'm
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Speaker 1: wearing a cast, and like Olive, the word fragile is
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Speaker 1: one I've heard used to describe myself and my body
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Speaker 1: for as long as I can remember. During middle school,
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Speaker 1: my self esteem got extra wobbly because of how I
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Speaker 1: felt inside my body. I think this is when I
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Speaker 1: first realized how different my body looked from my friend's bodies.
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Speaker 1: They grew taller, but I stayed extra short. Their legs
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Speaker 1: were straight, while mine were bowed and scarred from surgeries.
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Speaker 1: I didn't like being different. Sometimes I hated being fragile.
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Speaker 1: I'm fully aware, shaky, self esteem is not and maybe
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Speaker 1: has never been, an obstacle for every reader who has OI.
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Speaker 1: I believe a person's experience with disability is as unique
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Speaker 1: as that individual's heart for fingerprints. Yeah, so let's get
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Speaker 1: into the plot. Twelve year old Olive has been homeschooled
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Speaker 1: her whole life due to her OI, but she is
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Speaker 1: determined to go to Macklemore Elementary, where she believes she
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Speaker 1: will meet her BFF, her best friend forever. She lives
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Speaker 1: with her mom stepdad, who is also the pe teacher,
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Speaker 1: coach Malone, her stepbrother Hatch, her uncle Dash, and her
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Speaker 1: dad Jupiter, who kind of lives in a yurt is separate.
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Speaker 1: But together with that, she manages to convince her family
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Speaker 1: to let her give Machelmore a try, which is sort
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Speaker 1: of a castle by the way.
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Speaker 2: The school it seemed very fantasy from the cho I
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Speaker 2: loved it.
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Speaker 3: I loved that aspect of it.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, yes, the description of the library, I was like,
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Speaker 1: oh uh huh, yes, is amazing. Things aren't exactly smooth
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Speaker 1: sailing for her, though. Her caretaker, the person assigned to
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Speaker 1: look out for her, Miss Pigeon, is overbearing and repeatedly.
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Speaker 1: Olive encounters people who call her fragile. Then she meets
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Speaker 1: Grace Cho, an aspiring entrepreneur, and learns the story of
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Speaker 1: a magical wish granting hummingbird that pops up every couple
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Speaker 1: of decades. All of become determined to find the hummingbird
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Speaker 1: to make a wish to strengthen her bones. But she
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Speaker 1: is not the only one looking for the hummingbird, so
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Speaker 1: she makes a pact with Grace to search for it
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Speaker 1: together and not hold it against each other. If the
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Speaker 1: other person gets the wish, they have an actual contract
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Speaker 1: they like draw up. This leads to a friendship with
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Speaker 1: the librarian, also the past discoverers of the hummingbird, and
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Speaker 1: her stepbrother Hatch, who wants to use it to wish
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Speaker 1: to find his lost dog Nah Yes, lost dog, notably
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Speaker 1: because you can't it's you can't wish life or death things.
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Speaker 1: Throughout all of this, all of makes friends, especially in
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Speaker 1: the school theater troupe. She auditions for an Emily Dickinson.
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Speaker 3: Play that I Was Like.
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Speaker 1: Whoa Okay, and gets the role of Bird of Joy,
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Speaker 1: but also gets the understeady role for Emily Dickinson. Things
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Speaker 1: go wrong, though, when she falls off the stage and
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Speaker 1: breaks her leg preventing her from searching for the hummingbird,
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Speaker 1: which is on a timer. Basically, it's like by the
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Speaker 1: blue moon on the night of the blue moon, you
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Speaker 1: get to find it. So and it also prevents her
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Speaker 1: from being in the play, or at least that's what
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Speaker 1: she thinks. She truly wishes Grace and Hatch the best
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Speaker 1: of luck and finding the hummingbird. Then she has a
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Speaker 1: conversation with her grandfather, who also has oi and who
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Speaker 1: has been like throughout the story mentioned knows a lot
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Speaker 1: about birds, who made a wish on the hummingbird last
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Speaker 1: time it appeared. He convinces all of that she doesn't
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Speaker 1: need the hummingbird to do everything that she wants to do.
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Speaker 1: Her and her family go to watch the play and
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Speaker 1: the director asks Olive to take on the role of
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Speaker 1: Emily Dickinson since the lead who was her daughter, had mono.
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Speaker 1: Olive does and nails it. Of course, the hummingbird appears
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Speaker 1: to her and she realizes that while her bones are fragile,
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Speaker 1: she is not and wishes her Hatch to find his dog.
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Speaker 1: She meets Grace after, who pretty much got her wish
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Speaker 1: without the hummingbird and was like, I'm good and Hatch
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Speaker 1: reveals that he wished for Olive to realize how amazing
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Speaker 1: she was, and then the dog, Yes Biscuit appears. Olive
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Speaker 1: writes poetry for the first time, the poetry book gifted
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Speaker 1: to her, and halfily ever after, it seems it ends well,
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Speaker 1: it ends on a high note, right.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think like one of the things about this book,
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Speaker 2: because you know, with a lot of young adult novels,
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Speaker 2: it could go pretty sad pretty quickly. One of the
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Speaker 2: things that you and I talked about when we were
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Speaker 2: finding books or movies specifically for Disability Justice Month, we
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Speaker 2: wanted something that wasn't dour, I guess is the best word.
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Speaker 2: We know. Again, just like the author said herself, everybody's
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Speaker 2: experiences are different, especially when it comes to their own
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Speaker 2: disabilities or whatnot. And she like talks about her own
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Speaker 2: desires and such, and we know that that's the case
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Speaker 2: in reality that people do often see this. It's just
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Speaker 2: a part of who they are, and it's not a
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Speaker 2: hindrance necessarily. It's just something that they've always had, that's
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Speaker 2: always been a part of them, and it's nothing worse
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Speaker 2: or better for anybody else. And we wanted something that
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Speaker 2: was just like a story essentially that celebrates that the
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Speaker 2: normality of having disabilities, and that is cool in itself,
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Speaker 2: and I think for this book they did a great job.
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Speaker 2: Natalie Lloyd did an amazing job and making the story
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Speaker 2: as like kind but honest as it could be. And
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Speaker 2: when I say kind, I really expected being girls coming
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Speaker 2: in with the Madisons, yes, and I was like, oh no, no, no,
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Speaker 2: but it wasn't. I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool,
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Speaker 2: you know, the like the even the most problematic people
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Speaker 2: were the people who were just like a little too
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Speaker 2: caught in infantalizing her because they were scared, which is
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Speaker 2: you know, reasonable when you don't when you're not aware
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Speaker 2: of what something is or how something can go, or
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Speaker 2: what incidents can happen, especially in like a crowded place.
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Speaker 2: You know, we see an incident that does happen. But
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Speaker 2: then I loved each of the characters that were so
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Speaker 2: different and they had such vibrant personalities of their own.
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Speaker 2: Between Dylan, I love Dylan in himself, like just being
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Speaker 2: who he is and him because at the first when
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Speaker 2: Grace was trying to find the hummingbird, she was trying
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Speaker 2: to recruit him, and Dylan was much like no no,
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Speaker 2: I can do this on my own.
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Speaker 3: I know I have the talent. I don't need a hummingbird.
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Speaker 2: I was like okay, oh, okay again, and all of
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Speaker 2: Who's like listening in and then Eve's jobbing. She's just
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Speaker 2: like yes, like she really wants to shout yeah because
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Speaker 2: like that type of added is so amazing. It was like, yes, indeed,
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Speaker 2: Grace found that out for herself and want to be
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Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, so she kind of figured that out later
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Speaker 2: as well. And I loved the relationship of her family,
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Speaker 2: such an amazing supportive family. Like I was like between
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Speaker 2: the good relationship the father and the mother and the
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Speaker 2: new husband, like I was like, Okay, y'all are actually cohabitating.
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Speaker 2: I like this and the like strength they give their
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Speaker 2: daughter without being over the top like with being parents.
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Speaker 2: For Coach Malone as well, like he's still a parent,
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Speaker 2: caring parent, kind of naive, really really too involved in
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Speaker 2: like go like the whole locker room thing. Was like, oh,
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Speaker 2: why would you do that to her?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, they like go be in the locker room, like
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Speaker 1: make friends or just talk to people.
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Speaker 2: And She's like, I don't need to change out, so
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Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here watching give people get change. I'm
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Speaker 2: not gonna start introducing myself while someone's getting into there,
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Speaker 2: Like I'm.
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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, that's so awkward.
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Speaker 2: Why what Yeah, what made you think this is a
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Speaker 2: smart idea? But even Hatch and then Hatch seemingly having
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Speaker 2: the normal life and being all good but talking about
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Speaker 2: his invisible disabilities and the like really seeing that and
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Speaker 2: then about his dog Biscuit, and yes, this is where
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Speaker 2: I cried.
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Speaker 3: I had a moment. I'm like, no, please tell me
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Speaker 3: he's okay, Like I.
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Speaker 2: Was not good and then he reappears and I was
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Speaker 2: not good again. It got me twice, like I'm tearing
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Speaker 2: of now we're talking about it.
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Speaker 3: I can't help it. Dogs can't do that with pets
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Speaker 3: with me.
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Speaker 2: And then yes, I love the like I just this
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Speaker 2: is my story once again is back to like, man,
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Speaker 2: I wish I had this as a good because this
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Speaker 2: made my but this would have made my imagination run wild.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, this level of love and like that.
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Speaker 2: When I read the description when we were talking about this,
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Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, this is interesting. This is intriguing
10:42
Speaker 2: because it's kind of does remind me of the old
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Speaker 2: stories where it was all tragic. They mentioned the bridge
10:48
Speaker 2: to Terabithy a lot that scarred me to the point
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Speaker 2: that I think I've deleted some of the information about that.
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Speaker 2: But then with the minute her hole like search for
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Speaker 2: BFF and talking about and Green Gables. So that's the
11:02
Speaker 2: first thing that pops in my head and she mentions it.
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Speaker 2: I was like, of course, there it is, and I
11:05
Speaker 2: love that. And y'all know I love a good retake,
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Speaker 2: I love a good redo, and this was so perfect
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Speaker 2: in that her relationship with Grace, which was so sweet
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Speaker 2: and so loving, and that Grace was not about her disability.
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Speaker 3: It was more about like, let's go.
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Speaker 2: You have this smarts and I have this smarts, and
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Speaker 2: we got this as a combination, we are unstoppable.
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Speaker 3: It was just, oh, so yeah.
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Speaker 2: For anybody who is a parent, or maybe some of
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Speaker 2: our listeners who are younger, this is an amazing book
11:36
Speaker 2: to have as part of your imagination.
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Speaker 3: Reread is so sweet, it really is, and it's.
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Speaker 1: I think, going back to what you said earlier, Samantha,
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Speaker 1: it does a really good job of It is a
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Speaker 1: very supportive, nice kind take that also deals with like
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lack of accessibility, but then
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Speaker 1: they find a way like her people in her life
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Speaker 1: help her find a way around that. So it's like
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Speaker 1: it's not unrealistic in that way, but it's just very
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Speaker 1: very kind.
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Speaker 3: And also she's just determined, she's she's going to.
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Speaker 1: Find a way And I love the magical element of
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Speaker 1: it too, And I love how it's treated.
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Speaker 3: It's yeah and then it's like a little bit. I
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Speaker 3: love it too, what the yes? Please? Where is mine? Then?
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Speaker 1: The library is so eccentric because you've got like therapy
12:36
Speaker 1: animals and it just sounded.
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Speaker 2: Like it's probably not exactly like exotic, but still I
12:45
Speaker 2: was really hoping, and I know we're jumping all over
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Speaker 2: the place. I was really hoping that they would have
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Speaker 2: an accept about the ghost.
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Speaker 1: Yes, there's a ghost mentioned in the library. And I
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Speaker 1: was also like, oh.
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Speaker 2: This is going to pop up one this They didn't
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Speaker 2: get that deep into the lore.
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Speaker 1: I guess no, well maybe maybe next time. Maybe next time, Well,
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Speaker 1: I guess we should get into the themes. Uh, starting
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Speaker 1: with yes, disability And I love this quote. This comes
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Speaker 1: on early because all of is just immediately a very
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Speaker 1: unique and fun personality. So here here we go. In
13:37
Speaker 1: case you're curious, I have two wheelchairs. They both have names,
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Speaker 1: Dolly and Riba. Dolly's my sparkly custom fitted go two
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Speaker 1: set of wheels, I hot food, my name and rhinestones
13:47
Speaker 1: on the back. I maneuvered Dolly's wheels myself and gosh,
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Speaker 1: I love the way she guides. Riba is motorized, with
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Speaker 1: a maroon seat and shiny red rims that sparkle in
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Speaker 1: the sun. Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate my wheelchairs.
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Speaker 1: They help me do whatever I want. I consider them
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Speaker 1: fine chariots, So don't feel sorry for me on account
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Speaker 1: of the wheels, right, I.
14:08
Speaker 2: Love it hard talking about g and speed anywhere. I
14:10
Speaker 2: think we've talked about that before with that feminists around
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Speaker 2: the world. We had the activists who she was talking
14:16
Speaker 2: about her wheelchair and she loves it too. She's like,
14:17
Speaker 2: I can will where they can't, you know, where they
14:19
Speaker 2: have to walk, and I'm much faster than them. I
14:21
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, yeah, that's nice. And I did her
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Speaker 2: whole style. I love that she has a style, and
14:29
Speaker 2: she was every bit head to toe with her sunglasses
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Speaker 2: or her heart sunglasses, like that was her personality, not
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Speaker 2: the wheelchair, Like I just love that. That was the
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Speaker 2: descriptors and it was so vivid.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and you know, a reminder, this was the
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Speaker 1: first time she'd been homeschool, so this is the first
14:47
Speaker 1: time she was going out. So she was like choosing
14:51
Speaker 1: her clothes, you know, based on like the glitter and
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Speaker 1: all the stuff. She just had such a clear sense
14:56
Speaker 1: of fashion who she was. But yes, this was she
15:01
Speaker 1: did have the support of family. She does, and when
15:04
Speaker 1: she first started at the school it wasn't It didn't
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Speaker 1: go quite as well, and she had encountered instances of
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Speaker 1: ableism before, including early on.
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Speaker 3: The book starts with.
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Speaker 1: Something that happens at church, which is also something that
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Speaker 1: we had discussed in previous book Picks for Disability Pride months.
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Speaker 1: So here's the quote that girl as fragile as a
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Speaker 1: falling star, and that word fragile does keep coming back
15:37
Speaker 1: and does keep appearing throughout.
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Speaker 3: But then.
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Speaker 1: This woman while they're at church comes up to all
15:44
Speaker 1: of and kind of like it supposedly prophecy.
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Speaker 2: It's specially a prophetic and I think in itself, like
15:53
Speaker 2: we know, if any of us from southern churches know
15:57
Speaker 2: this woman who comes in and prays over you and says, whatever,
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Speaker 2: maybe the problem is gonna heal you. And I have
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Speaker 2: a feeling she's a nosy butt that thinks she knows everything.
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Speaker 3: I'm just saying.
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Speaker 2: And this was one of the moments where Olive was
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Speaker 2: just sitting by herself and her parents weren't around, and
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Speaker 2: the woman actually tells Olive, I believe God wants me
16:17
Speaker 2: to tell you that your life will not always look
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Speaker 2: like this. Makes sense, I said, sinking back against my
16:24
Speaker 2: chair as far as possible. For some reason, I felt
16:27
Speaker 2: smaller on account of the way she looked at me,
16:29
Speaker 2: or maybe it was the way she was talking to me.
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Speaker 2: My voice came out small, too, so I cleared my throat.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm only eleven. Life's bound to change considerably.
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Speaker 2: She smiled and said, I mean you will not always
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Speaker 2: be in this terrible contraption. Someday you'll walk, You'll jump
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Speaker 2: right out of this chair. I believe God means to
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Speaker 2: heal you.
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Speaker 3: And you all. My accent came out just now. It's
16:54
Speaker 3: fitting fitting.
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Speaker 2: I think it's because I'll listen to it, so I
16:58
Speaker 2: hurt it anyway. Also, again, I have seen these types
17:03
Speaker 2: of people who came through and saying, I believe God
17:06
Speaker 2: wants this for you.
17:07
Speaker 3: God wants that for you.
17:09
Speaker 2: Let me leave hands on you and heal you, which
17:11
Speaker 2: is kind of one of those conversations when we have
17:14
Speaker 2: about church in general, like thank God for those who
17:17
Speaker 2: have their own faith and beliefs and aren't discouraged by this.
17:21
Speaker 2: And as as she became discouraged, but she had people
17:24
Speaker 2: around her who was like, noa, noa, Noah, there's nothing
17:27
Speaker 2: wrong with you. Don't listen to this woman who was
17:29
Speaker 2: somewhat out of her element and out and really just
17:33
Speaker 2: being a nosy person and not realizing harms like that.
17:38
Speaker 2: We've seen women like this and just saying your reverent
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Speaker 2: things as well as just very nosy, non non helpful
17:45
Speaker 2: things for people. That has nothing like to do with
17:49
Speaker 2: that person who feels like they need to speak on
17:51
Speaker 2: based on the Lord. It's just based on their own
17:53
Speaker 2: ableism and we know that and oftentimes we just wish
17:56
Speaker 2: we could just cover their mouth up.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so many times it's about the person
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Speaker 1: wanting to feel better about themself and not at all about.
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Speaker 3: The other person question who didn't ask for this.
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Speaker 2: So it makes them feel like they they're closer to God,
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Speaker 2: which is a whole different level of competition.
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Speaker 3: You're like why, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but so that that happens, and that's when her
18:22
Speaker 1: mom like rushes in and it's like, oh, I don't
18:24
Speaker 1: listen to her, it's not right. And that's when all
18:29
Speaker 1: of is like, I really really want to go to Macklemore.
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Speaker 3: And her mom says, all right, you write me a sermon. No,
18:37
Speaker 3: that was all his own plans.
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Speaker 2: She was like, I will write you a sermon, and
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Speaker 2: I will talk you into this. And this was doing
18:42
Speaker 2: when all of a sudden, large white mass and they
18:48
Speaker 2: whether it was like snowflakes. Some of them said snowflakes,
18:51
Speaker 2: some of them says sleep some of the some of
18:52
Speaker 2: them said fog came in and this and her uncle
18:55
Speaker 2: Dadh had already been like, oh, there's something happening. There's
18:58
Speaker 2: something in the wind, there's something coming, very mystical. So
19:01
Speaker 2: you get this idea that this book is bigger than
19:04
Speaker 2: just ugh just a tale in which they talk about
19:07
Speaker 2: how this has happened before. And yes, they're actually feathers,
19:11
Speaker 2: but the feathers dissolve like like snow. They live like
19:17
Speaker 2: traces behind. She says glitter, the lives a little glitter
19:20
Speaker 2: on her and that this has happened every few years.
19:23
Speaker 2: And then it's significance to the birds, because birds is
19:25
Speaker 2: a big part of the story because she is an
19:28
Speaker 2: avid bird expert as with her grandfather, and she knows
19:32
Speaker 2: a lot about birds, so this was a huge point.
19:35
Speaker 2: So she was like, yes, something isn't the wind, it's happening,
19:37
Speaker 2: it's time. This is a sign, and she does her sermon.
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Speaker 1: She does, and she convinces them to let her try mackelmore.
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Speaker 1: She is so excited. This is the thing she wants.
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Speaker 1: I did love that it was the BFF she was
19:51
Speaker 1: most excited about. That was great.
19:53
Speaker 3: But yeah, she gets to school.
19:55
Speaker 1: She has the greatly named Miss Pigeon, who who is
20:00
Speaker 1: supposed to kind of be her guide, but she is
20:02
Speaker 1: like way over the top, thinks that she all of
20:08
Speaker 1: is fragile, can't do anything. People avoid her because they're
20:12
Speaker 1: nervous because it's like the whole school has been told
20:15
Speaker 1: Olive's coming in. She's fragile. Hatch also didn't want her
20:18
Speaker 1: to go, although you later find out there were other
20:21
Speaker 1: reasons why, but he was worried about hurting her and
20:25
Speaker 1: looking out for her. So here's a quote. People have
20:28
Speaker 1: called me disabled before, I call myself disabled. It's not
20:31
Speaker 1: a bad word, and it feels as neutral to me
20:33
Speaker 1: as having brown hair. It's one part of who I am,
20:36
Speaker 1: but her tone made disabled feel different, and not in
20:39
Speaker 1: a good way, more like a scratchy sweater way. I
20:42
Speaker 1: don't want special treatment. I just want to be myself, right. Yeah,
20:48
Speaker 1: And this was after a pretty disastrous yeah lunch.
20:52
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, that's when I thought I was going
20:54
Speaker 2: to be a mean girl session and I was like,
20:56
Speaker 2: oh no, but like instead, it was kind of an
20:58
Speaker 2: ablest moment of like leave her alone. She's that's that's
21:02
Speaker 2: not the way, that's not the way to go, but okay.
21:05
Speaker 2: And then miss Pigeon she had such high hopes because
21:07
Speaker 2: she seemed cool the way she was dressed, but then
21:10
Speaker 2: she just ended up being like even more, which is
21:12
Speaker 2: understandable when you don't know. And the parents had come
21:15
Speaker 2: in with like a pretty big speech to prepare everybody,
21:18
Speaker 2: so it kind of went beyond uh. So the introduction
21:22
Speaker 2: is a rough start, a rough start, yes. And then
21:26
Speaker 2: here's another quote. It's because fragile is how people always
21:30
Speaker 2: describe me, that or short, and I wish they see
21:33
Speaker 2: other things, like my dark hair, or my heart shaped sunglasses,
21:37
Speaker 2: or even my dress which is full of mushrooms and
21:39
Speaker 2: garden homes. It's so jazzy. But what people see is
21:43
Speaker 2: the fragile part. It's strange how my bones are inside
21:46
Speaker 2: my body, but there's still somehow. The first thing people see,
21:51
Speaker 2: fragile is what I'll always be. I get that, but
21:54
Speaker 2: I am a thousand other things too. I'm whole constellations
21:57
Speaker 2: of wonders and weirdness and hope, which.
21:59
Speaker 1: She was just Yes, in those like short sentences, you
22:03
Speaker 1: learned so much about her character, and it is like
22:06
Speaker 1: she's got a great sense of fashion.
22:08
Speaker 3: She's just really interesting.
22:11
Speaker 1: Also, she has like a best friend who is a Pelican.
22:15
Speaker 3: Felix, which I was like, what is it? He's such
22:19
Speaker 3: a comedic.
22:19
Speaker 2: How much fish does she buy?
22:22
Speaker 3: I don't know, but he was a comedic presence.
22:24
Speaker 1: I could tell if this was like a movie because
22:26
Speaker 1: he's constantly like running into the window.
22:28
Speaker 3: He's fine everyone.
22:30
Speaker 2: But she always says she actually says that he's fine.
22:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, just so he's all right, I will say.
22:37
Speaker 2: So.
22:38
Speaker 1: When we were picking this book, we were worried about
22:42
Speaker 1: the wish, and that the wish would be I wish
22:47
Speaker 1: I didn't have this disability. And so when I was
22:50
Speaker 1: starst reading it. I was like, uh oh uh oh
22:51
Speaker 1: uh oh. But it turns out, it turns out all great.
22:55
Speaker 1: And there is a great quote from the author about
23:00
Speaker 1: having this when you're younger, having this kind of back
23:03
Speaker 1: and forth, especially when you're starting school, and there's just
23:07
Speaker 1: some things that because of accessibility or whatever, you can't do.
23:12
Speaker 1: But there were instances of internalized ableism, especially after transitioning.
23:17
Speaker 3: From homeschool to public school and seeing how people treated it.
23:21
Speaker 1: Or there's a scene in the locker room where I
23:27
Speaker 1: guess the dudes had made a list of the hottest
23:31
Speaker 1: girls in their grade.
23:33
Speaker 3: And had yeah, and.
23:37
Speaker 1: All of sees it. And here's the quote, this is
23:40
Speaker 1: what pretty looks like. I realized, according to the list,
23:43
Speaker 1: this is number one, sixth grade, gorgeous, and it's the
23:45
Speaker 1: opposite of me. And it was Madaline number one, because yeah,
23:50
Speaker 1: they go by numbers.
23:53
Speaker 3: It's three. I guess that's three or four three, there's three, okay,
23:56
Speaker 3: But the third one didn't seem into it.
23:59
Speaker 2: No, third one was just like just caught up in it,
24:01
Speaker 2: just like I don't I don't want to be.
24:04
Speaker 1: She's like, actually I go by Madeline. I think that
24:06
Speaker 1: they all go by Maddie. But she would Madeline.
24:09
Speaker 3: Yeah.
24:10
Speaker 1: But it was nice because in the end there is
24:12
Speaker 1: this really powerful moment where all of has this sort
24:17
Speaker 1: of refrain my bones are fragile, but I am not.
24:19
Speaker 3: And we'll talk about that more later.
24:22
Speaker 2: But I think calling the Madison, haven't I Yeah.
24:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, well.
24:31
Speaker 2: I confuse them with Madison, but they I think they
24:33
Speaker 2: are Madeline.
24:35
Speaker 3: Yes, and they're Maddie's but they.
24:37
Speaker 2: Go by Maddie, and so in my head they're Madison,
24:40
Speaker 2: which is not the case. Yeah, and I think once
24:42
Speaker 2: again it's a good point about talking about the fact
24:44
Speaker 2: that she didn't think any of this, yeah, until other
24:47
Speaker 2: people told her what she couldn't do, and especially with
24:51
Speaker 2: the play, like she really wanted to be in the play,
24:53
Speaker 2: but the person who she really hoped would be one
24:57
Speaker 2: of the more like open not open, like just people
25:01
Speaker 2: who would just treat her normally because she seemed eccentric
25:04
Speaker 2: and out there was one of the ones who told
25:06
Speaker 2: her how many things she couldn't do, including saying, maybe
25:09
Speaker 2: we'll put you, we'll put you in something, we'll let
25:11
Speaker 2: you be a tree.
25:12
Speaker 1: We're just like yeah, yes, and maybe you can like
25:17
Speaker 1: help director.
25:19
Speaker 2: Right, and then like at the and the kids are
25:22
Speaker 2: the ones that finding solutions were like, we can make
25:24
Speaker 2: a ramp. We can do that, that's really easy, and
25:26
Speaker 2: other kids will be like, yeah, she's not the only
25:28
Speaker 2: one who's going to need a ramp.
25:30
Speaker 3: That just makes sense.
25:31
Speaker 2: So like it was interesting to see, But this change
25:35
Speaker 2: of attitude came much later because of what other people
25:39
Speaker 2: told her she couldn't do.
25:41
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, she didn't have this in her head until
25:45
Speaker 1: until she went to this school and people were like
25:47
Speaker 1: treating her differently. I also wanted to touch on a
25:50
Speaker 1: point I didn't have this in here originally, but because
25:52
Speaker 1: you brought it up and so many things I saw
25:54
Speaker 1: brought it up. Hatch does have an invisible disability, and
25:58
Speaker 1: a lot of people were write about how that meant
26:00
Speaker 1: a lot to them reading about that when he opened
26:04
Speaker 1: up about it, because he was sort of the closed
26:08
Speaker 1: off step brother and you weren't really sure why, and
26:10
Speaker 1: then you thought you find out, like he's kind of
26:14
Speaker 1: lying to his family about what he's involved in, and
26:19
Speaker 1: then you find out why. And he's talking about like
26:22
Speaker 1: why he always wears the same hoodie and it's a
26:24
Speaker 1: very sensory kind of thing, and then he's talking about
26:28
Speaker 1: his dog biscuit. But yeah, a lot of people wrote
26:32
Speaker 1: about how that was also a really impactful thing for them,
26:35
Speaker 1: right to read.
26:37
Speaker 2: And then her assumption that he was okay and he
26:39
Speaker 2: just didn't like her, like yeah, and vice versa, like
26:43
Speaker 2: he really and he compared his to he's like, you
26:45
Speaker 2: don't need this. You've got a great family, you have
26:47
Speaker 2: like kind of you have a handle on your disability.
26:50
Speaker 2: I don't type of thing conversation, you don't need this,
26:53
Speaker 2: which I do, please give it to me.
26:54
Speaker 3: And it was based on the dog.
26:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, But like I thought, it was a great
27:00
Speaker 2: rate turn because she saw this person who she thought
27:03
Speaker 2: really had it all and then like he really.
27:06
Speaker 3: Thought she had it all.
27:08
Speaker 2: And then that conversation that really brought them closer together
27:11
Speaker 2: and how close they become and how they opened up
27:13
Speaker 2: to each other was just beautiful and I really appreciated that.
27:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do get a really close relationship and it's
27:21
Speaker 1: really rewarding at the end. I don't what I was about. Also,
27:29
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, change is a big theme in this.
27:32
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like changes on the wind. There's
27:35
Speaker 1: a lot of imagery around birds finding your wings. Grace
27:40
Speaker 1: makes bird wings, which I would have loved when I
27:44
Speaker 1: was a kid, but also, yeah, just all of going
27:48
Speaker 1: to school and having those those new experiences in life.
27:54
Speaker 3: There is a theme of spirituality. Here's a quote.
27:58
Speaker 1: Mostly when I pray, I picture God holding my heart
28:01
Speaker 1: up very gently to his ear, like one of those
28:03
Speaker 1: big fancy seashells with an ocean sound inside it. I've
28:06
Speaker 1: got a thousand tiny oceans inside me, and I think
28:09
Speaker 1: God listens carefully to every crashing wave, all the fears
28:12
Speaker 1: and hopes. Even if he doesn't answer every single prayer,
28:16
Speaker 1: I think he keeps my heart safe.
28:18
Speaker 3: That was one of my favorite lines. She does such
28:20
Speaker 3: a great job with that. Yeah, yeah, she did.
28:24
Speaker 1: But it was so nice too, with the themes of magic, and.
28:31
Speaker 3: I kind of liked how the magic was.
28:33
Speaker 1: It was exciting, but it was sort of accepted, like
28:36
Speaker 1: it was just like, yeah, that's what's happening.
28:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes.
28:42
Speaker 1: And I love how when they talked to the three
28:45
Speaker 1: people who had gotten the hummingbird wish last time, there
28:49
Speaker 1: felt like there was something magical about each of them,
28:52
Speaker 1: but then it sort of turned out that no, they
28:56
Speaker 1: were just living their lives, and you know, some of
29:01
Speaker 1: some of that worked out better than others, but it
29:05
Speaker 1: was neat, like seeing what's her name, nest with the
29:09
Speaker 1: apples and she has that dance like it just felt
29:11
Speaker 1: so yeah, I love this.
29:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like Luthor really like I love this again.
29:18
Speaker 2: This is kind of one of those things again when
29:20
Speaker 2: I say I wish I had this as a good
29:22
Speaker 2: because it's got such a great vibe and depth. But
29:25
Speaker 2: like when they talk about the fact that he loved
29:28
Speaker 2: thinking about the childhood, when they said you are part
29:30
Speaker 2: of the bloombird society, Like she's like, you're a part
29:34
Speaker 2: of this, and he lights up because it reminds him
29:36
Speaker 2: of such good times with him and his brother searching
29:39
Speaker 2: for the hummingbird themselves and then making those wishes.
29:43
Speaker 3: Like it was.
29:45
Speaker 2: That kind of level of magic that I see in
29:47
Speaker 2: this entirety of the book because of the search, but
29:50
Speaker 2: because of the self finding. Yeah, And I think that
29:53
Speaker 2: was the same thing for Martin and Luther. Obviously in
29:56
Speaker 2: Luther like losing his brother and waiting still for her brother,
30:00
Speaker 2: which yes, it's also got my heart to come back,
30:03
Speaker 2: But like that level of his acceptance being this title
30:07
Speaker 2: as the grouchiest man, the grautiest man in town, to
30:12
Speaker 2: realizing that he's just dug gone through a lot of
30:14
Speaker 2: loss and that be reminded of those good times of
30:18
Speaker 2: his youth. I'm like, oh, oh, that's magical. Why And
30:22
Speaker 2: then you also see the memories when they go and
30:24
Speaker 2: find the other birds, rememory birds, birds, memory remembering birds,
30:33
Speaker 2: and they got to see a part of that as well.
30:35
Speaker 2: They saw them in the youth, they saw the dog
30:38
Speaker 2: biscuit and so much more. So, like it was like,
30:42
Speaker 2: I love that this magic is also kind of that
30:44
Speaker 2: spirit of child as well.
30:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, like making those memories and looking back on them
30:52
Speaker 1: and the important thing being the people you were with
30:55
Speaker 1: when you made them. And also Luther was the one
30:58
Speaker 1: that helped Grace get her wish her dream. Yeah, so
31:04
Speaker 1: I really loved that. I really loved that. And yeah,
31:06
Speaker 1: the memory birds I love for listeners who've never read this. Essentially,
31:11
Speaker 1: so they have what they call.
31:13
Speaker 3: The Judy Bloom.
31:14
Speaker 1: It's like a friendship group and they're collecting friends throughout
31:19
Speaker 1: and they all of calls her grandfather who knows a
31:21
Speaker 1: lot about birds, and the call is breaking up, but
31:25
Speaker 1: she can hear them say memory birds, and then they
31:27
Speaker 1: go and find them and they see all of these memories.
31:31
Speaker 1: It's a really beautiful scene, and that helps them kind
31:34
Speaker 1: of figure out where they.
31:36
Speaker 3: Think the hulming Bird will be.
31:37
Speaker 1: They get a lot of different clues and that makes
31:40
Speaker 1: sense at the end. But I love that too, kind
31:42
Speaker 1: of the mystery of it. Another theme, writing and creativity.
31:56
Speaker 1: Here's a quote that's one of my favorite feelings in
31:58
Speaker 1: the world. Pen to paper and a page full of words.
32:01
Speaker 1: I could write a thousand things in my lifetime, plays
32:03
Speaker 1: and poems and short stories and songs, and never ever
32:06
Speaker 1: get sixth the way words feel when they spin out
32:09
Speaker 1: of my soul. So she's a very creative type. Yes, yes,
32:13
Speaker 1: if it's not clear why wanting to be in the
32:15
Speaker 1: play and just having all of these ideas, she was
32:18
Speaker 1: very smart when thinking about the Summing Bird. But also yeah,
32:22
Speaker 1: she loved to write, and she loved to write poetry,
32:24
Speaker 1: and that's there. As I said, there is a lot
32:26
Speaker 1: of poetry that she writes throughout the book.
32:29
Speaker 2: And I will say, like, there's a lot of like
32:31
Speaker 2: kindred spirits, if there were, if she were to name
32:34
Speaker 2: them that. And then one of them is her first
32:36
Speaker 2: teacher that she meets, mister Watson, And here's a quote,
32:41
Speaker 2: because he's also just as passionate as she is. He says,
32:44
Speaker 2: we believe three things in this class, olive. First, we
32:46
Speaker 2: believe that miracles surround us every day we take time
32:49
Speaker 2: to notice them. Second, we believe every person deserves respect
32:53
Speaker 2: and kindness. And third we believe and inkpen is a
32:56
Speaker 2: direct line to a person's heart. Your words are a
32:59
Speaker 2: kind of magic carry inside. That's why we write each
33:02
Speaker 2: morning to turn the magic loose. So he had given
33:06
Speaker 2: him an assignment. He was the one that told him
33:09
Speaker 2: the Tale of the Honeybird.
33:10
Speaker 1: Yes, and I love the scene where he like, excitedly
33:14
Speaker 1: is like chicken eggs are hatching, America is happening, And.
33:19
Speaker 2: I believe this could be very real intimacy.
33:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, I believe it too.
33:25
Speaker 2: I say that So came from a country school in Georgia.
33:29
Speaker 1: As we've already discussed, acting is a big thing. All
33:32
Speaker 1: of really really wants to be on stage. It did
33:36
Speaker 1: make me laugh because I did, in fact play a
33:38
Speaker 1: tree when I was in elementary school.
33:40
Speaker 3: I was Tree number two.
33:43
Speaker 1: Number two, wasn't that, But that was due to my
33:48
Speaker 1: poor acting ability and not able.
33:51
Speaker 2: I mean, it's better than being in high school playing
33:53
Speaker 2: the black servant girl with a really bad because I
33:58
Speaker 2: was the only minority. She would never say that rip
34:02
Speaker 2: my drama teacher, who was actually a really great drama teacher,
34:05
Speaker 2: and I loved her to death. But that microaggression kind
34:07
Speaker 2: of casting was like yeah, ay, and if anybody ever
34:11
Speaker 2: finds those tapes and calls me out on it. I
34:14
Speaker 2: followed the script as it was written, and it was
34:16
Speaker 2: really bad and I feel bad about it now.
34:20
Speaker 3: Oh no, I have those things too. Yes, in that
34:24
Speaker 3: like it was more of what was worse.
34:29
Speaker 2: I mean, look, when I think about it, I'm like, man,
34:33
Speaker 2: I suffered through some things in high school and I
34:35
Speaker 2: really thought I was doing well. I take that as
34:37
Speaker 2: a compliment. I should not have oh dear, well anyway,
34:45
Speaker 2: going back, the tree is better.
34:48
Speaker 3: The tree was better. A tree was better.
34:51
Speaker 1: Also, there is a kind of a theme of using
34:54
Speaker 1: art as an escape an inspiration throughout. There's just a
34:58
Speaker 1: lot of references and things that she loves. She's very
35:03
Speaker 1: nerdy in what she she'll bring up, which I you know,
35:07
Speaker 1: a door.
35:08
Speaker 3: Yes. Family, Family was a big theme.
35:11
Speaker 2: Ye.
35:12
Speaker 1: Here's the quote from her mom. Your name was a
35:16
Speaker 1: hallelujah for the whole world to hear, because no life
35:19
Speaker 1: should be a whisper remember that, Okay, you're not a
35:21
Speaker 1: miracle because you have brittle bones or because you use
35:24
Speaker 1: a wheelchair or walker. You're not a miracle if you don't,
35:27
Speaker 1: you're a miracle because you exist. Everybody is. And that's
35:31
Speaker 1: when she's talking about why all OF's middle name is miracle.
35:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there's a whole breakdown because when Olive
35:40
Speaker 2: decides that she was going to make a wish for
35:42
Speaker 2: her bones to be stronger, she knew because of the
35:45
Speaker 2: comments like that, her mom would be somewhat disappointed. So
35:48
Speaker 2: there was a conversation between her because she finally tells
35:51
Speaker 2: her dad, Jupiter, that she was looking for it. Who
35:54
Speaker 2: told her mom and mom was like, what are you
35:55
Speaker 2: wishing for? And she told her very hesitantly because she
35:58
Speaker 2: she had a feeling, and this was the response, I
36:01
Speaker 2: just I don't want you to feel like you have
36:04
Speaker 2: to live in a world where you wish part of
36:06
Speaker 2: yourself away. Maybe that's not what your wish is about.
36:08
Speaker 2: I hope it's not, because all of you is wonderful.
36:11
Speaker 2: So yeah, this is when she doesn't tell her mom
36:13
Speaker 2: because she was kind of scared. Yeah, the reaction, but
36:17
Speaker 2: her mom knowing who she was and knowing she's had
36:20
Speaker 2: some difficulties with school already knew.
36:26
Speaker 1: And then at the end, the grandfather we've been hearing
36:31
Speaker 1: about all this time shows up and here's what he says. Quote,
36:37
Speaker 1: here's what's going to happen, kiddo. As you get older,
36:40
Speaker 1: your world will get bigger and bigger, and you'll realize
36:43
Speaker 1: there's way more that you can do than you can't do.
36:47
Speaker 1: It just takes time for us to see it. Birds
36:50
Speaker 1: are born with wings. The rest of us have to
36:52
Speaker 1: find our wings as we go, and you will allive miracle.
36:56
Speaker 1: You'll find them and you'll fly.
37:00
Speaker 4: Moving.
37:01
Speaker 1: And I do think going back to the memory birds,
37:03
Speaker 1: like those memories are present throughout two of how they
37:09
Speaker 1: impacted people's lives and how through generations they impact people.
37:14
Speaker 3: That was a pretty big theme. And then lastly, friendship again,
37:18
Speaker 3: I love the search for the BFF was like all
37:21
Speaker 3: of his number one goal. That's what she was so
37:24
Speaker 3: excited about. And going back to a point you made earlier, Samantha,
37:28
Speaker 3: here's a quote. But you know how Diana has Anne
37:31
Speaker 3: and the green Gables books, or how the girls and
37:34
Speaker 3: the Babysitters Club all have one another, That's what I
37:37
Speaker 3: think is missing in my life. I'd like one true
37:40
Speaker 3: BFF to spend my time with. It's sweet and it's.
37:44
Speaker 1: Really fun in the beginning because she's like, maybe this
37:47
Speaker 1: person is bff.
37:50
Speaker 2: She started talking about maybe I could be with a
37:51
Speaker 2: Maddie or maybe I can hang out with Villain.
37:54
Speaker 3: He's school.
37:55
Speaker 2: Her interactions with Ransom is also very sweet as well.
38:00
Speaker 2: She accidentally like pells him in the leg with her chair.
38:04
Speaker 3: She's like, oh, no, you, and.
38:05
Speaker 2: He was very sweet, gives her a pen, talks about
38:08
Speaker 2: how he has an element of magic, about how finding
38:11
Speaker 2: random things and he felt like he's supposed to give
38:13
Speaker 2: him to people. So cute, and then having the dance
38:16
Speaker 2: with her or she wants to dance with her. I
38:18
Speaker 2: love the friendship too.
38:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they were really cute. And she accidentally introduced
38:24
Speaker 1: herself as new all of to him.
38:26
Speaker 3: Yeah that was very fun, which sounds like, again something
38:30
Speaker 3: I would do.
38:31
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, and I did like at the end because
38:37
Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, it was becoming clear as
38:40
Speaker 4: the story progressed what the I don't even want to
38:44
Speaker 4: say moral of it was.
38:45
Speaker 1: But kind of what generally happens with the hummingbird, and
38:50
Speaker 1: so I like at the end that they pretty much
38:53
Speaker 1: all gave up their wishes for each other the other.
38:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's the biggest thing, is I
38:59
Speaker 2: like the hummingbird. Really they say that you'll only say
39:03
Speaker 2: in the legend, you'll only say what's on your heart,
39:06
Speaker 2: so you can't even really choose. Because each one of
39:08
Speaker 2: the people that they like had talked about one said
39:10
Speaker 2: I just want to be happy, and then he realized
39:13
Speaker 2: that he was with, you know, all these things. The
39:15
Speaker 2: other one was I just want a friend, and it
39:18
Speaker 2: turned out to be his wife. He was with the
39:20
Speaker 2: only one you know all those things, and she realized
39:24
Speaker 2: that she was Okay, She's like, I want she was
39:26
Speaker 2: thinking about Hatch as well as Hatch thinking about her
39:30
Speaker 2: missing out on her opportunities because she she wanted to
39:32
Speaker 2: be on the plane. He's like, I wish that you
39:34
Speaker 2: would be happy on the play, at the play and
39:36
Speaker 2: being successful. Were you able to do this? Like it
39:39
Speaker 2: was so cute because it was in their hearts. It's
39:41
Speaker 2: just genuine kind love for each other.
39:45
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, it was very very sweet. I definitely got
39:49
Speaker 3: two Your eyed the dog, Yeah, the dog came back everybody.
39:54
Speaker 1: And then also we've been talking about this, but I
39:57
Speaker 1: just want to reiterate it because I loved it. I
39:59
Speaker 1: did like the whole I love when Grace was like, actually,
40:02
Speaker 1: I figured out, you know what.
40:05
Speaker 3: I can do this, I.
40:07
Speaker 2: Can give my mentor I didn't need that, he asked me.
40:09
Speaker 2: That's how I was going.
40:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
40:11
Speaker 3: I really liked it.
40:12
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes I would be like, that's what
40:15
Speaker 1: you're wishing for, But when you're a kid, you know,
40:17
Speaker 1: of course yes, that's but that's success, that's something that
40:20
Speaker 1: you really want. And I really loved that. I loved
40:23
Speaker 1: how it kind of became like, oh, yeah, I figured
40:26
Speaker 1: it out.
40:27
Speaker 3: Yeah it was.
40:28
Speaker 2: It was very again, like all these things ended up
40:32
Speaker 2: being exactly what they need without knowing that they needed.
40:35
Speaker 2: I love the whole Hummingbird kisses and that in the
40:38
Speaker 2: way that she spoke out, she's like, I am fine
40:40
Speaker 2: being me. She speaks, my bones are fragile, but I
40:43
Speaker 2: am not like it. And they're like, wait, is this
40:44
Speaker 2: a part of the play. Does Emily Dickinson say this?
40:47
Speaker 3: Sweet?
40:47
Speaker 1: What?
40:47
Speaker 2: But that's what she keeps saying out loud to the
40:51
Speaker 2: hummingbird and then truly wishes for, you know, she realizing
40:56
Speaker 2: that she is she is not fragile and It was
40:59
Speaker 2: very sweet. It was a very good, feel good. Every
41:02
Speaker 2: turn of it was like a feel good with a
41:04
Speaker 2: little suspense. And I could definitely see this being a show.
41:08
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I could do again.
41:10
Speaker 1: Like the setting of the school, even the town, Oh
41:14
Speaker 1: my gosh.
41:16
Speaker 3: I loved it. Yeah, highly recommend, I highly recommend. Yeah.
41:22
Speaker 2: Probably one of my top five of all the books
41:25
Speaker 2: that we've read, and we've read a lot.
41:27
Speaker 3: We have read a lot, we have read a lot.
41:32
Speaker 3: It was very.
41:34
Speaker 1: It was it was just like a fun, unique, mysterious friendship,
41:40
Speaker 1: heavy family heavy like it was just yeah, a lot
41:42
Speaker 1: of things.
41:43
Speaker 3: That I really like. Full magic. Yeah. Yeah, felt healthy.
41:49
Speaker 2: All the relationships felt healthy, even when they weren't communicating.
41:53
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes Wow. Listeners. If you have any thoughts
41:58
Speaker 1: about this, or if you have any suggestions, please let
42:01
Speaker 1: us know. You can email us a Stephanie mom Stuff
42:03
Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
42:05
Speaker 1: at momstep podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
42:07
Speaker 1: One Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have
42:10
Speaker 1: a tea public store and we have a book you
42:11
Speaker 1: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always
42:14
Speaker 1: to our super produced Christina Executive producer Maya and our contribute. Joey,
42:17
Speaker 1: thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I
42:19
Speaker 1: Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
42:21
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio
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