Latest / The Knife: A True Crime Podcast / Presenting – Hardcore Con with Johnathan Walton

Transcript

Presenting – Hardcore Con with Johnathan Walton · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome to The Knife. I'm Patia Eton.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Smith, and today we're sharing a special episode
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: with you of a new podcast that we just listened to.
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  Speaker 1: It comes from friend of the podcast and former guest
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  Speaker 1: on The Knife, Jonathan Waltson.
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  Speaker 2: You guys probably remember we had Jonathan on the show
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  Speaker 2: last September. It's still one of our favorite episodes. You
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  Speaker 2: can listen to the episode in our feed. It's called
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  Speaker 2: Queen of the Con Jonathan Walton's story. We spoke with
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  Speaker 2: him about his excellent book, Anatomy of a Con Artist,
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  Speaker 2: and of course his own riveting personal experience with being
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  Speaker 2: con Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I still think about his book so often, and it's
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  Speaker 1: just such a great book. He goes through the methods
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  Speaker 1: that con artists use to trick people, and he really
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  Speaker 1: lays it out in the book in such a smart
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  Speaker 1: and interesting way. It's excellent. If you haven't read it,
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  Speaker 1: I still highly recommend reading that book.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean anecdotally. When we speak with people
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  Speaker 2: who have been scammed, it's like, oh, yep, check, check,
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  Speaker 2: check everything in the book playing out in this story
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  Speaker 2: so truly I recommend.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so he has a brand new podcast. Maybe
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  Speaker 1: there's a couple episodes out now. It's called Hardcore Con
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  Speaker 1: and it's really interesting. We got to listen to the
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  Speaker 1: first episode, and every episode is a story of someone
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  Speaker 1: being scammed or conned. But Jonathan kind of weaves in
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  Speaker 1: a lot of what he's learned over the years studying
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  Speaker 1: scam artists into the stories, so it's educational as well.
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  Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, And he's narrating it and he's
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  Speaker 2: an amazing storyteller. Yeah, it's great. It's really great. We
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  Speaker 2: think you guys will love it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so here's the episode description of what you're about
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  Speaker 1: to hear. What on earth could convince an Ivy League
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  Speaker 1: educated journalist to fork over a shoe box with her
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  Speaker 1: entire life savings in it to a complete stranger for
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  Speaker 1: safe keeping. This is an intricate and complex con involving
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  Speaker 1: multiple con artists, and it could truly happen to any
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  Speaker 1: one of us. So pay attention to the tricks, the
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  Speaker 1: brain hacks, and the dark psychology. These a list scammers
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  Speaker 1: used to successfully pull off this fifty thousand dollars con.
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  Speaker 2: You can find out more information about Jonathan and his
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  Speaker 2: other podcasts and projects at Jonathan Walton dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode.
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  Speaker 3: It's late October now in twenty twenty three.
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  Speaker 4: In New York City.
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  Speaker 3: It's a cool sixty five degrees outside, just past six pm,
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  Speaker 3: and thirty nine year old Charlotte Coles is nervously standing
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  Speaker 3: in front of her Brooklyn apartment building. She looks like
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  Speaker 3: she's seen a ghost, and she's clutching a shoe box
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  Speaker 3: containing fifty thousand dollars in cash, her cash, her entire
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  Speaker 3: life savings she had just come from her bank after
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  Speaker 3: withdrawing it all. When all of a sudden, a man
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  Speaker 3: in a white Mercedes suv pulls up and Charlotte places
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  Speaker 3: that shoe box with her life savings in it, on
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  Speaker 3: the back seat of that Mercedes and slams the door
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  Speaker 3: shut and watches as it drives away. At this very moment,
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  Speaker 3: even though Charlotte Coles is an Ivy League educated financial
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  Speaker 3: journalist for the New York Times and New York Magazine,
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  Speaker 3: she has no idea that she has just fallen for
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  Speaker 3: an elaborate confidence trick, or by a team of sophisticated
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  Speaker 3: con artists working in unison with surgical precision to scam her.
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  Speaker 3: How did these people, these scammers infiltrate her life to
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  Speaker 3: begin with, and what could they have possibly said and
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  Speaker 3: done to convince Charlotte Coles to fork over her entire
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  Speaker 3: life savings behind her husband's back Listen, I know you
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  Speaker 3: think there's just no way that you'd ever hand a
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  Speaker 3: stranger all the money in your bank account. And I
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  Speaker 3: know you think Charlotte Coles must be a gullible idiot
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  Speaker 3: for doing that. But a similar thing happened to me.
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  Speaker 3: I got conned out of close to one hundred thousand dollars,
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  Speaker 3: and I managed to turn the tables and put my
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  Speaker 3: con artist in jail. And I've since investigated hundreds and
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  Speaker 3: hundreds of concases and scams and wrote a book, Anatomy
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  Speaker 3: of a Con Artist, about the psychology of how these
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  Speaker 3: elaborate scams work and how these m efforts know the
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  Speaker 3: exact way to hack your brain to get you to
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  Speaker 3: do what they want. You think you'd never fall for
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  Speaker 3: a scam like this, Well, that belief actually makes you
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  Speaker 3: so much more likely to. In each episode of Hardcore Con,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not just gonna tell you a crazy con story.
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  Speaker 3: I'm also going to pull the curtain back and expose
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  Speaker 3: the dark psychology and the mental tricks these scammers use
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  Speaker 3: to manipulate you while at the same time making you
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  Speaker 3: completely unaware that you're being manipulated. Because the greatest trick
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  Speaker 3: the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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  Speaker 3: And that's the reason you won't know you're getting scammed
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  Speaker 3: until it's all over. That's what happened to me, and
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  Speaker 3: that's what's happening to Charlotte Cole's right now. And my
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  Speaker 3: soul mission in life until the day I die is
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  Speaker 3: to make sure it never happens to you or anyone
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  Speaker 3: you care about. I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Hardcore
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  Speaker 3: Con Episode one, the Shoe Box. If you like this episode,
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  Speaker 3: you'll find more episodes of Hardcore Con at my new
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  Speaker 3: home at Jonathan Walton Media. Just tap that magnifying glass
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  Speaker 3: on your podcast app and search Jonathan Walton Media to
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: listen to all my new shows, Cocaine Air, The Quarterback
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  Speaker 3: in the Con Artist, The Handyman of West Texas, and
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  Speaker 3: this one Hardcore Con. Back to episode one now about
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  Speaker 3: Charlotte Cole's losing her life savings to a team of
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  Speaker 3: sophisticated con artists who are ganging up to scam her
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  Speaker 3: a long time. Yeah, twenty years earlier, in two thousand
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  Speaker 3: and three, a nineteen year old Charlotte Coles is sitting
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  Speaker 3: on the campus of Columbia University outside Lerner Hall. She's
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  Speaker 3: a creative writing major, and as she opens a bag
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  Speaker 3: of potato chips and pops a couple into her mouth,
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  Speaker 3: the news of the day, spreading all over campus, is
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  Speaker 3: about a con artist named Christophe Rocncourt, a Frenchman.
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  Speaker 5: Who claimed to be a member of the wealthy Rockefeller
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  Speaker 5: family in order to con the rich and famous out
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  Speaker 5: of one point two million dollars.
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  Speaker 3: And at this point in Charlotte's life, she's a teenager
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  Speaker 3: and elaborate con stories like this are just something she
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  Speaker 3: sees on the news or in Hollywood movies, like the
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  Speaker 3: usual Suspects.
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  Speaker 4: You think youth kaisisse? I don't know verbal kaisus? SoSE
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  Speaker 4: is a shield like you said a spook story.
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  Speaker 3: The idea that Charlotte Coles would one day fall hook
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  Speaker 3: line and sinker for an elaborate Cohn herself and lose
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  Speaker 3: her entire life savings in one fell swoop is just
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  Speaker 3: so far removed from her realm of thinking at this point,
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  Speaker 3: and that's the problem. Lord Flynn Gould, Michael Aesop Smith,
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  Speaker 3: Adam David Ryback, Charlotte Carla Coles. Charlotte graduates from Columbia
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  Speaker 3: University in two thousand and seven with a bachelor's degree
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  Speaker 3: in English Language, Literature and Letters. A year later, she
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  Speaker 3: lands a pivotal job as an assistant editor at The
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  Speaker 3: New York Sun, and over the next decade, Charlotte's career
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  Speaker 3: in journalism takes off, and she quickly moves up writing
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  Speaker 3: for Harper's Bazaar, New York Magazine, and The New York Times.
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  Speaker 3: And by the time Charlotte is introduced to that motley
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  Speaker 3: crew of con artists who go on to scam her
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  Speaker 3: out of fifty thousand dollars, She's freelancing for both The
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  Speaker 3: New York Times and New York Magazine as a financial columnist.
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  Speaker 3: It's Halloween now, October thirty, first, twenty twenty three in Brooklyn,
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  Speaker 3: just past noon, and some of the neighborhood kids are
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  Speaker 3: getting a jump on their trick or treating. Charlotte's working
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  Speaker 3: from home, trying to finish her latest piece for New
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  Speaker 3: York magazine while her two year old son is playing
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  Speaker 3: in the next room. At around twelve thirty pm, Charlotte's
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  Speaker 3: phone rings. She glances down at her caller ID. It's
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  Speaker 3: Amazon calling. Immediately, Charlotte thinks maybe this is about a
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  Speaker 3: grocery order or a package she's been waiting on, so
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  Speaker 3: she answers.
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  Speaker 6: Hello, Am I speaking to Charlotte Coles.
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  Speaker 3: Now, if you've ever spoken to Amazon over the phone,
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  Speaker 3: then you know they employ call centers in India and
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  Speaker 3: other far flunk places to handle their customer service calls.
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  Speaker 3: So Charlotte thinks nothing of the woman on the phone
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  Speaker 3: with the thick accent, and she confirms that yes, she is.
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  Speaker 4: In fact.
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  Speaker 3: Charlotte calls and politely asks what the purpose of the
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  Speaker 3: phone call is.
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  Speaker 6: I'm calling from Amazon customer Service to verify some unusual
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  Speaker 6: activity on your account. This call is being recorded for
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  Speaker 6: quality assurance.
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  Speaker 3: Right off the bat, this call seems legit. After all,
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  Speaker 3: it's being recorded, right and remember it came up as
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  Speaker 3: Amazon on Charlotte's caller ID. But it most certainly is
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  Speaker 3: not Amazon at all, just a clever scammer who knows
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  Speaker 3: how to spoof phone numbers. Word do the wise never
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  Speaker 3: trust your caller ID.
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  Speaker 6: We wanted to confirm a few recent totaling eight thousand
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  Speaker 6: dollars for a MacBook Pro and an ibag.
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  Speaker 3: Charlotte immediately gets scared because those are not her charges.
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  Speaker 3: She didn't buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad. Could
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  Speaker 3: someone have hacked her Amazon account? And here's where the
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  Speaker 3: manipulation starts. Con Artists don't actually outsmart you. They're not
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  Speaker 3: smarter than you. Con Artists outfeel you, and then they
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  Speaker 3: weaponize your feelings against you. They make you emotional, which
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  Speaker 3: gets you to bypass your intellect altogether, and that's how
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  Speaker 3: they manipulate you. Right now, Charlotte's scared, and that fear
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  Speaker 3: is a powerful feeling, and it's only going to grow
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  Speaker 3: and get her to do all kinds of things she
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  Speaker 3: would never do in her right mind, especially after this
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  Speaker 3: fake Amazon customer service wrap tells her.
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  Speaker 6: It appears you've been the victim of identity theft. Someone
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  Speaker 6: has used your credentials to open an Amazon business account
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  Speaker 6: in your name and is making purchases as we speak.
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  Speaker 3: Charlotte is now in full freak out mode. And then
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  Speaker 3: suddenly this con artist on the phone posing as an
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  Speaker 3: Amazon rep does what all con artists do to firmly
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  Speaker 3: establish a stranglehold in their victims lives. They offer to help,
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  Speaker 3: and right now Charlotte feels like she can use all
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  Speaker 3: the help she can get, which is exactly how the
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  Speaker 3: con artist wants her to feel. The rep tells her
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  Speaker 3: that Amazon has been experiencing a sudden deluge of identity
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  Speaker 3: theft cases just like hers, and that they're working with
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  Speaker 3: investigators right now from the Federal Trade Commission the FTC
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  Speaker 3: in Washington, d C. And that at the end of
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  Speaker 3: this phone call, Charlotte can either call and report this
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  Speaker 3: to the FTC herself, which will take god knows how
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  Speaker 3: long to get one of these FTC agents on the phone, or,
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  Speaker 3: if Charlotte prefers, the Amazon customer service rep can transfer
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  Speaker 3: her to an FTC investigator they're working with right now,
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  Speaker 3: which sounds great to a scared and now desperate for
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  Speaker 3: help Charlotte Coles. Remember, con artists don't outsmart you, They
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  Speaker 3: outfeel you. And at this very moment, Charlotte's feelings are
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  Speaker 3: being played like a violin concerto by a con artist virtuoso.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: She didn't stand a chance. You're listening to my new
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: series Hardcore Con for more episodes like the one explaining
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: how falling in love with a con artist is what
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: actually killed Hollywood actress Britney Murphy. Search Jonathan Walton Media
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: on whatever podcast platform you're listening on. We'll be right back.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to Hardcore Con. Charlotte Coles just got transferred
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: to a legit sounding FTC agent over the phone. She
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  Speaker 3: has no idea she's falling victim to an elaborate scam.
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  Speaker 5: Hi, Charlotte, this is Agent Calvin Mitchell with the Federal
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  Speaker 5: Trade Commission. I've been in touch with Amazon. I'm looking
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  Speaker 5: into your case right now.
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  Speaker 3: Agent Mitchell immediately gives Charlotte his badge number and a
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  Speaker 3: phone number she can call him back on in case
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  Speaker 3: they get disconnected, and that phone number has a two
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  Speaker 3: to two area code, which is in fact a Washington
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: DC number. And then he actually tells Charlotte the last
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: four digits of her social Security number, just to confirm
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: he has to write Charlotte Coles on the phone. At
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: this point, it's obvious to Charlotte that Agent Mitchell has
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  Speaker 3: all her information social Security number included on his computer
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  Speaker 3: screen in his office down there at the Federal Trade
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  Speaker 3: Commission in Washington, DC, And the idea that this is
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  Speaker 3: all an elaborate ruse never even occurs to Charlotte. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: why would it. But here's the thing. All of our
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: social security numbers and all of our personal information is
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: out there on the dark web right now, and professional
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: scammers buy and sell bundles of this information to each
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: other in order to scam us. You might be wondering,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: how on earth do scammers and say India or Nigeria
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: or China get their hands on your social Security number? Well,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: the answer is simple data breaches. Word of a massive
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: data breach for AT and T, lots and lots of
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: data breaches. That cyber attack on JP Morgan Chase Tonight's
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Flagstar is warning customers their personal information, including social security numbers,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: may have been stolen in a ransomware breach crime of
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: our times. So the fact that this scammer on the
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  Speaker 3: phone with Charlotte, who's posing as an agent for the
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Federal Trade Commission in DC, has her social Security number
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: and all her personal information on his computer screen goes
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  Speaker 3: a long way in making him seem legitimate to Charlotte.
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  Speaker 3: And then this agent Mitchell.
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  Speaker 5: Tells her your personal information is linked to a case
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  Speaker 5: that we've been working on for a while now, and
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  Speaker 5: it's quite serious.
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  Speaker 3: According to Agent Mitchell, the people that stole Charlotte's identity
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: belong to a sophisticated crime syndicate who in a very
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: short amount of time managed to open twenty two bank
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  Speaker 3: accounts in Charlotte's name in multiple states, and then used
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: those various bank accounts to launder more than three million
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  Speaker 3: dollars that they quickly wired two other banks overseas. Charlotte
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  Speaker 3: suddenly feels all the blood drained out of her face.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Agent Mitchell then texts her a picture of a woman's
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  Speaker 3: driver's life Linse a woman by the name of Stella Kwan.
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  Speaker 7: Do you know this woman?
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: Have you ever seen this woman before? If you know her,
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: you better tell me the truth, because if I find
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: out later you're lying to me, you will be in
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: so much more trouble.
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  Speaker 7: I can assure you.
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  Speaker 3: Agent Mitchell tells Charlotte that the driver's license for this woman,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Stella Quang, was found in a rental car that had
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: been abandoned near the Texas Southern border, and that that
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: car was rented in Charlotte's name and police later find
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: drugs and blood in the trunk evidence of foul play,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: And when they execute a search at the rental car company,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: they find reams of bank statements also in Charlotte's name,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: with her social Security number attached, and Charlotte nearly faints
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: when Agent Mitchell reveals.
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  Speaker 5: There actually have been arrest warrant issued in your name
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  Speaker 5: in Texas and in Maryland, and you're facing multiple felony
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: charge for cybercrimes, money laundering, and drug trafficking.
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  Speaker 3: Now, there are two very powerful scamming techniques that I
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: write about in Anatomy of a con Artist that are
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: being used on Charlotte very successfully.
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  Speaker 4: Here.
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  Speaker 3: Number one, stories from far away places. The overseas bank accounts,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: the Southern border rental car, the blood, the drugs, the
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: felonies in Texas and Maryland. Human nature is unreliable and
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: easily influenced. That's why advertising is a billion dollar industry,
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: just blowing the can. And why when someone tells you
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: these kinds of stories from far away places, they're hard
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  Speaker 3: to prove false off the top of your head. And
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: the minute you can't prove something is false the way
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: the human brain works, you are that much more likely
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  Speaker 3: to just accept it as true. The other psychological trick
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: the scammers are employing here, using all those exquisite details
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: in their stories from far away places, tons of minute
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: details have a tendency to immediately convince someone that what
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: they're hearing is true. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many details.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Add to that. At this point, Charlotte is scared, terrified actually,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: and she believes this FTC agent in DC on the
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: phone with her is trying to help, so she is
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: that much more primed to just accept whatever he says
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: as true. From this point on, as Charlotte is talking
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: to Agent Mitchell, she texts her husband, telling him that
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: someone has stolen her identity, and suddenly Agent Mitchell, sensing
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Charlotte is distracted, commands her full attention by asking.
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: Have you recently used public WiFi anywhere? A coffee shop
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: or an airport or any place like that.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Charlotte did, in fact use public WiFi recently at the airport,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: and she feels really stupid now for doing it, as
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: she tells Agent Mitchell, and Agent Mitchell seizing on a
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: sudden opportunity to make Charlotte blame herself for what's happening
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: piles on, telling her that her recent public Wi Fi
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: use at the airport is the reason this crime syndicate
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: was able to hack into her phone and into her
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: life and is now using her identity to commit all
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: these crimes all over the country. And he says they're
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: probably monitoring her phone right now, so she shouldn't be
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: calling or texting anyone about anything, especially about this current
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: FTC fraud investigation into her case. Panicking now, Charlotte quickly
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: deletes the text she just sent to her husband, even
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: though he already saw it, and she agrees not to
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: call or text anyone else about this open FTC investigation.
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  Speaker 4: Agent Mitchell then tells.
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  Speaker 5: Charlotte, we've been working with the CIA on this case
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: for the past few months. If it's okay with you,
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: I'd like to transfer you to the agent in charge.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: So now Charlotte is being transferred to a third person,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: which just makes this scam feel even more credible. And then,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: to really juice up the credibility here, this third person,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: this CIA agent, speaks with a British accent.
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: Charlotte, I'm special Agent Michael Sarana. I'm please to finally
• 21:44
  Speaker 7: be talking to you. We've been working on your case
• 21:46
  Speaker 7: for the past six months.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Agent Serrano gives Charlotte his badge number, and later, to
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: assuage any concern she has, he texts her a picture
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: of his ID and tell Charlotte from this point on
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  Speaker 3: she's not to talk talk about this case, this open
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: investigation to anyone, including her husband. Charlotte box and tells
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Agent Serrano that her husband can be trusted. He's a
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: good man, honest and hard working, and Agent Serrano firmly
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: reminds her, you are.
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: Being investigated for major federal crimes. By keeping your husband
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: out of this, you are protecting him.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: So Charlotte reluctantly agrees not to tell her husband anything
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: until the investigation is over, and Asient Serrano explains that
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: with Charlotte's help, the CIA wants to catch the perpetrators
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: in the act, and to do that, they need to
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: deactivate her Social Security number and freeze all her bank accounts,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: the fraudulent ones and the real ones, because in the
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: eyes of the law, he says, there is no difference.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Charlotte asks, how would she be able to pay her
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: bills if her bank account is frozen? And now we
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: get to the meat of the con Agent Serrano offers
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: to help Charlotte. Are you sensing a theme here? He
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: says he can hold off on freezing her bank accounts
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: to give her enough time to withdraw all her money
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that she can then use to live on until she's
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: issued a new Social Security number and would be able
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: to open up a new bank account at that point,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: completely separate and independent from the fraudulent bank accounts that
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: that crime syndicate opened in her name with her.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: Old social Security number.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: And Agent Serrano again implores Charlotte not to breathe a
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: word about this investigation to anyone.
• 23:45
  Speaker 7: You need to go to the bank and get that
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: cash out now. You cannot tell them what it is for.
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: In one of my last cases, the identity fee for
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: someone who worked at the bank.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Shockingly, this actually rings true to Charlotte because she's been
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: working as a financial journalist for the past ten years
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: in New York City and she knows for a fact
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: that half of all bank fraud cases are perpetrated by
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: someone on the inside, by someone who actually works at
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: the bank. You're listening to my new series Hardcore Con
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: for more episodes like the one explaining how a fifty
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: four year old man hides the corpse of his dead
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: mother and dresses up like her to collect her pension
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: checks for years. Search Jonathan Walton Media on whatever podcast
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: platform you're listening on. Search Jonathan Walton Media.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: We'll be right back.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to hardcore con Charlotte Coles is one hundred
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: percent certain she's on the phone with a bona fide
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: CIA agent who is right now in the process of
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: convincing her to go to her bank and secure all
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: her money. So Charlotte leaves her upon apartment and walks
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: to her bank. She keeps CIA agent Michael Serrano on
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: the phone with her help me, and she agrees not
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: to mention the real reason she's withdrawing fifty thousand dollars
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: from her savings account. As she's withdrawing fifty thousand dollars
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: from her savings account, which is all the money she
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: had in there to begin with. Now you have to
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: understand Charlotte's mental state at this point. She's in fight
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: or flight mode. Her stress hormones and cortisol levels are
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: through the roof. She's desperate, and she's not in her
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: right mind at all. She's also petrified and the only
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: lifeline she feels she has right now is that CIA
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: agent Michael Serrano, so she's doing exactly what he tells
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: her to do. As Charlotte is walking home from the
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: bank with fifty thousand dollars in hundreds in her purse,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: she's still on the phone with Agent Serrana. It's Halloween
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: and costume trick or treaters are scurrying everywhere, when all
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, Charlotte notices a man in a hoodie
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: and sunglasses who appears to be following her.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: Block after block after block.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: And when she mentions this man to Agent Serrano, he
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: says it's probably a member of that crime syndicate and
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: that they're onto her now they know that she knows
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: about them, and they're following her. Well, Charlotte freaks out
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: and starts running far ahead and ducks into a nearby
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: parking girl and loses the guy that was following her.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: The truth of the matter is no one was actually
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: following her, but in Charlotte's frazzled and fearful state of mind,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: everything just feels like an imminent threat. Everything feels like
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: an emergency, and the scammer posing as a CIA agent
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: on the phone with her just keeps stoking the flames
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: of her fears. Charlotte gets back home and she's shaking.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Her adrenaline is pumping, but she's unsure what to do next.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Agent Serrano tells her.
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: Tonight we will closed down your social Security number and
• 27:50
  Speaker 7: you will lose access to your bank accounts. Tomorrow, you
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: need to go to the Social Security office and get
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: a new social Security number. Will secure this money for
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: you in a government locker and handle it a treasury
• 28:00
  Speaker 7: check for the same amount. You can cash the check
• 28:03
  Speaker 7: and use it for your expenses until the investigation is over.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Charlotte asks why she can't just hang on to the
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: cash she just withdrew from her bank account. It's her cash,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: after all, why can't she keep it. Agent Serrano explains to.
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: Her that all of your assets under your current identity
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: are part of the investigation. You are being charged with
• 28:25
  Speaker 7: money laundering. If we secure this cash and then issue
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: you a government check under your new Social Security number,
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: then that will be considered clean money.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: At this point, Charlotte is falling victim to a psychological
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: phenomenon called sunk cost fallacy. It's the reason we all
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: continue to watch a bad movie until the very end
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: and the reason gamblers will lose everything in a casino
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: before they walk away. Charlotte has been on the phone
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: now for five hours, and she's believed so many lies
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: and so many any dramatic stories up until this point.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: So one more lie, one more story was that much
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: easier to accept, and so she did. That's sunk cost fallacy.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Agent Serrano tells her to put the fifty thousand dollars
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: in cash in a box. Charlotte digs around in her
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: closet and finds a colorful shoebox and she sticks the
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: cash in it, and she labels that shoebox with her
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: name and the CIA case number Agent Serrano had given her. Yup,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: there was a case number, and Charlotte is then instructed
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: to hand the box to an undercover CIA agent who
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: will be driving by in a white Mercedes SUV.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Very shortly.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Agent Serrano warrens Charlotte that she is in fact being
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: watched by members of that crime syndicate who stole her identity,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: and this cash handoff needs to fly under the radar
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: as not to expose that CIA agent's cover. She's told
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: to put the box on the back seat of that
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Mercedes suv, making the exchange look like she's selling something
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: and the buyer came to pick it up. And here's
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: the craziest part of this whole story. As Charlotte is
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: walking out of her apartment, colorful shoe box with fifty
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars in hand, her telephone pressed to her ear
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: talking to Agent Serrano, Charlotte's husband is actually walking in
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: and passes her in the hallway.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: Hi, honey, where are you going? Remember?
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Agent Serrano urged Charlotte not to involve her husband for
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: his own safety, so Charlotte pretends everything's okay. She says
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: she has to meet a guy down stairs to clear
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: up the identity theft thing she had texted him about
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: earlier in the day. He accepts that explanation, and Charlotte
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: blows right by him and keeps walking. Charlotte is now
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: standing outside her apartment building, looking up and down the
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: street as rush hour traffic drives by. Minutes later, that
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: white Mercedes suv pulls up. It's got tinted windows and
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Charlotte can't see the driver. She opens the back passenger door,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: puts her colorful shoe box on the back seat and
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: slams the door shut, and that undercover CIA agent drives
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: away with Charlotte's fifty thousand dollars. Agent Serrano is still
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: on the phone with her at this point, telling her
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: what an amazing job she did, and he texts her
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: a picture of what looks like a government issued check
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: for fifty thousand dollars in her name that she'll be
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: receiving tomorrow. It's Halloween now, so Charlotte takes her young
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: son trick or treating and pretends everything's fine, But deep down,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: the thought of putting that shoe box with fifty thousand
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: dollars in the back seat of that Mercedes is gnawing
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: at her. And when she gets home that evening, she
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: starts to play the conversation she had that day over
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: and over in her head with the Amazon operator.
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: It bears, You've been the victim of identity tech, with.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: That Federal Trade Commission investigator.
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: I've been in touch with Amazon, I'm looking into your
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: case right now.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: And with the CIA agent all.
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: Being investigated for major federal crimes.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: It suddenly dawns on Charlotte Cole's in her own kaiser
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: SoSE moment that she's been scammed. She collapses on the
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: floor of her bedroom in tears. Charlotte reports everything to
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: police and even writes a piece about her experience for
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: New York Magazine. But those scammers have yet to be caught,
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: and most likely Charlotte will never see that fifty thousand
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: dollars ever again.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: There are a.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Few things I want to point out here as a
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: victim of a scam who got justice, And this may
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: surprise you to learn, but authorities do not prioritize scam
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: as a crime. They almost don't care. In fact, nine
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: out of every ten times, when you go to the
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: police or the sheriff's office to follow a report that
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: you were scammed, they will not take a report. They
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: will actually turn you away, telling you it's not a
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: crime because you willingly gave the scammer your money and
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: that what you need to do now is hire a
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: lawyer and go after the scammer in civil court.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: But they're wrong.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Police turned me away too when I lost nearly one
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars to a sophisticated scammer. But I figured
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: out a trick to change their minds and push back
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: and get a criminal investigation started. It's actually a bunch
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: of tricks. I have a whole chapter in my book
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: teaching people how to pitch con cases to police to
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: get them assigned to an investigator. The other thing that
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: bugs me about the Charlotte Coles case here is if
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: police really wanted to, they could have caught these scams
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: the very next day. I mean, think about it. New
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: York City has traffic cameras on every street corner. Not
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: to mention, everyone and their mother has a ring camera
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: or something similar. Police could have easily used all those
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: cameras and figured out where that white Mercedes suv went
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: the same effing day if they wanted to, and they
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: could have gotten Charlotte's money back and arrested the scammers.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: But scams, in my experience, are not a priority for
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: them at all period. The other thing that's abundantly clear
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: to me in this case is there are probably thousands
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: of Charlotte Coles who fallen victim to the same exact
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: scam all over the country. But after investigating connartists cases
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: for the past nine years, I can tell you the
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: vast majority of victims do not go to police. In fact,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: upwards of ninety percent of them never tell anyone they
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: were scammed. Their shame and embarrassment stifles them. And I
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: know for a fact the team of con artists who
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: scammed Charlotte Cole's probably scammed thousands of others. Look At
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: how well rehearsed they were. Look At how elaborate and
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: fleshed out and flawless their A story was, and their
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: B story and their C story. These scammers, the woman
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: playing the Amazon rep and the two men playing the
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: FTC and CIA agents respectively, and that fourth guy in
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: the Mercedes SUV picking up the money. They're a team.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: They're a well oiled machine who have no doubt, been
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: working on this same scam, perfecting it for years. And
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: to put a finer point on things, they didn't just
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: know Charlotte Cole's social Security number. They knew her husband's name,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: her son's name. They knew her two year old son
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: was in the next room playing before Charlotte EVA revealed
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: to them she had a son. They knew her family's
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: names and addresses too. That's why Charlotte believed these people
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: were legit CIA and FTC agents, and why she believed
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: those criminals who stole her identity were surveiling her apartment,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: and that's why Charlotte thought she was in real danger,
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: and that fear response hijacked her brain and took over,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: and that's why she got scammed. And if that fear
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: response ever takes over your brain, you'll get scammed too.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: My deep and profound admiration and appreciation for Charlotte Coles
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: for coming forward and putting this scam on everyone's radar. Charlotte,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: you will never know how many people you saved from
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: this exact scam by speaking out.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: You can find Charlotte's powerful essay in New York Magazine
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: titled The Day I put fifty thousand dollars in a
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: shoe box and handed it to a stranger. For more
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: episodes of hardcore con like the one revealing the real
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: cause of Hollywood actress Brittany Murphy's death, head on over
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: to my new home at Jonathan Walton Media. Just click
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: that search box on your podcast app and type Jonathan
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Walton Media. There you'll find my new podcast feed with
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: all my new shows, including Hardcore con Cocaine Air, The
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Quarterback and The Con Artist, and The Handyman of West Texas,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: which right now is being adapted to the big screen.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: And you won't believe who's being tapped to play Mickey
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: the Handyman of West Texas. I almost can't believe it myself.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: Just type Jonathan Walton Media wherever you get your podcasts,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: and come along on this fascinating journey with me. Hardcore
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: con was created, written, and hosted by me, Jonathan Walton
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: for Nathan Walton Media Executive producer Evan Goldstein. All sound
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: design was done by Jimmy o'holligan. My book, Anatomy of
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: a con Artist, The Fourteen Red Flags to Spot Scammers,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: Grifters and Thieves is available everywhere. Books are sold in
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: print and in audio, so it's like a podcast, and
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: both print and audio are also available for free at
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: most public libraries throughout the country and on the Libby app.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: And if you've got a story you think deserves its
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: own podcast, pitch it to me at Jonathan Walton dot com.