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Diogenes Club | E22 - Let's Keep Talking About It · Diogenes Club

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[music]
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SPEAKER_02: Good afternoon, good morning, good time of day depending on what time you are seeing us at.
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SPEAKER_02: Hello everybody as you start coming on in for today's Diogenes Club.
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SPEAKER_02: Welcome, welcome to Sick of the Shit Publications.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm Nick Perrow joined by my friend Dr. Eric Lulove
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SPEAKER_02: we have a really good show that we're gonna have we're gonna have
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SPEAKER_02: a really straightforward show today we had a i'm gonna let people start coming on
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SPEAKER_02: in i want as many folks here as possible that are our friends our audience those
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SPEAKER_02: who discuss things with us we had a show today
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SPEAKER_02: that we were gonna do um we were gonna be talking about and i'm gonna monologue
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SPEAKER_02: a little bit here at the beginning not like we normally do
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SPEAKER_02: where we normally just hit into things and we just start going
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SPEAKER_02: um there's been some stuff that has been going on and we want to hit it head
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SPEAKER_02: on we want to talk about it we want to talk about intent versus impact we want
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SPEAKER_02: to own what has happened and where we came fell short and
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SPEAKER_02: where we can learn this episode is going to be a lot
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SPEAKER_02: about listening louder hearing more owning our intent verse our impact
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SPEAKER_02: and yes please go to the broad banner crip crow website
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SPEAKER_02: and act help support disability rights there's a couple things
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SPEAKER_02: that have come out today chris goldsmith just put an article out um about
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SPEAKER_02: that was founded or that was the foundation of it was from
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SPEAKER_02: a individual named elizabeth hortman um i've tagged both on that article
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SPEAKER_02: that he put out i put a little message out i'm going to spread and share
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SPEAKER_02: that throughout the day too
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SPEAKER_02: hello everyone as you come on in i see you all so today's episode is going to we had
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SPEAKER_02: a discussion we were going to do eric and i were going
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SPEAKER_02: to put up some really cool graphics and actually talk about the corruption of
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SPEAKER_02: the trump boys and the corruption of the assholes on the trump family
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SPEAKER_02: and what they're doing and actually discussing that however we're not going to do
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SPEAKER_02: that today we have some things we're going to talk about we want to talk
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SPEAKER_02: about like i said intent
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SPEAKER_02: first impact i want to start first talking about what has happened this week
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SPEAKER_02: with um chris armitage and the metaglasses um and the way that i first reached out
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SPEAKER_02: to doc g um and i know they are not here in the audience at the moment um
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SPEAKER_02: or i haven't seen them come in in the audience at the moment
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SPEAKER_02: but i do want to make sure this is stated very clearly is the intent on
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SPEAKER_02: that did not match the impact and i'm sorry my intent was never to question
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SPEAKER_02: the validity of you or the validity of what happened to you but that was not
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SPEAKER_02: the impact that it gave and i'm sorry i'm sorry that that came out the way
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SPEAKER_02: that it did and that when i asked for further context it was wrong
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SPEAKER_02: the way that i did it did not clearly represent the intent that i was hoping for and
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SPEAKER_02: that is something i'm i want to own and i need to and i'm offering any space
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SPEAKER_02: that is needed on whatever timeline for anyone who wants to discuss this if doc g
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SPEAKER_02: if you want to talk with me privately or publicly the space is always available
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SPEAKER_02: and i'm sorry that i did not make that clear in my first steps when i reached out
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SPEAKER_02: to you i was looking to verify and the way that it came out downplayed
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SPEAKER_02: the significance in your in your story and i am sorry that was never my intent
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SPEAKER_02: and i know intent doesn't matter when the impact comes out that way so that's
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SPEAKER_02: the first thing i want to address is
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SPEAKER_02: doc g i'm sorry i believe you the way that i spoke about the metaglasses
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SPEAKER_02: which i put out a couple long posts about were also somewhat vague and the intent
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SPEAKER_02: behind those was to get to the root issue and not inflame emotions and
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SPEAKER_02: that probably also was the wrong and in the end that should have been more clear
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SPEAKER_02: I could have clearly tagged or called out Chris in that,
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SPEAKER_02: in the Metaglasses.
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SPEAKER_02: I did reach out to him privately
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SPEAKER_02: and I wrote him a very direct message
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SPEAKER_02: on what I think about wearing those types of technology
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SPEAKER_02: and that I think he should have known better.
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SPEAKER_02: That is for Chris to own.
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SPEAKER_02: The impact of what Chris did is for Christ to own
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SPEAKER_02: The impact of what I said, though, is for me to own.
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SPEAKER_02: the impact of how i put out messages is for me to own and i will be more direct
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SPEAKER_02: when it's necessary on issues like this going forward i will always
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SPEAKER_02: and i'll say this in in this way i will always approach the individual privately
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SPEAKER_02: and publicly at this point i did that and i did not do enough on that so i'm sorry
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SPEAKER_02: and then my final piece on this before i bring in like before eric and i get into
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SPEAKER_02: the discussion uh more discussion is i want to make some clear statements that
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SPEAKER_02: and naida thank you for that comment i don't think calling people out
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SPEAKER_02: in public helps calling people in is better
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SPEAKER_02: and i think that's really really important is that
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SPEAKER_02: we do need to call people in the situations we're in on a national level
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SPEAKER_02: on state levels in local areas is a lot
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SPEAKER_02: because we have pushed everyone out we we don't listen
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SPEAKER_02: to each other we don't listen loudly we don't listen clearly we listen to respond
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SPEAKER_02: so many times rather than to hear and that's a structural change that we need to fix
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SPEAKER_02: and that's what we're trying to do that's what diogenes club is trying
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SPEAKER_02: to do that's what the intelligent masculinity series is trying to do and i want
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SPEAKER_02: to make sure i'm clear on what the intent and the the direction
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SPEAKER_02: of intelligent masculinity is is because i think that's also being lost
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SPEAKER_02: in some areas intelligent masculinity
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SPEAKER_02: is not about endorsing the people specifically being interviewed
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SPEAKER_02: as intelligently masculine if you go back and listen to the episode
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SPEAKER_02: where i had lev parnas on he is not a perfect person and in fact one of
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SPEAKER_02: the first things i said to him when we opened
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SPEAKER_02: that interview was man you have done some shitty things in your life
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SPEAKER_02: and i approached that head on and we're going to approach it head on
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SPEAKER_02: and i think the name intelligent masculinity has lost the intent behind the series
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SPEAKER_02: and i would love some feedback from people in the audience if they think there is
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SPEAKER_02: a better name for the series that we could do because i i want the intent
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SPEAKER_02: behind intelligent masculinity and what we're trying to do which is
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SPEAKER_02: the better humaning which is learning and having public conversations
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SPEAKER_02: with each other about our failings and where we have grown
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SPEAKER_02: i've spoken many people i disagree with on that series i've spoken with people
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SPEAKER_02: that i agree with heavily on that series i have spoken with people who i have spoken
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SPEAKER_02: with one person and i'll bring this back to chris armitage because that's part of
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SPEAKER_02: the broader issue here is i did an interview with chris armitage
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SPEAKER_02: on intelligent masculinity it is the only interview that i have not posted
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SPEAKER_02: and i am going to own the fact that i should have made it clear earlier why is
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SPEAKER_02: because he said something that was transphobic during the interview
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SPEAKER_02: that really hurt some of the folks in my audience that really brought out a lot
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SPEAKER_02: of fear and danger
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SPEAKER_02: in our audience and i said and and i did not make it clear
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SPEAKER_02: that there was a reason why i did not post it i'm making it clear now
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SPEAKER_02: because i should have done that earlier because i didn't post it
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SPEAKER_02: because there were some transphobic things said that i did not want to platform
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SPEAKER_02: or continue giving life to i should have said that when it happened and that is
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SPEAKER_02: on me it's on me to fix that and own that and i'm sorry
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SPEAKER_02: and thank you for the audience and thank you for everyone who's commenting
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SPEAKER_02: and I want to transition now before we get in before we've had
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SPEAKER_02: at least one person ask if they want to come up and be part of the discussion
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SPEAKER_02: and I think that would be I think that would be okay to do to have more people
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SPEAKER_02: in this discussion because yeah wisconsin zebra emotional intelligence is
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SPEAKER_02: the goal like understanding emotional intelligence for ourselves is one of
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SPEAKER_02: the primary goals of intelligent masculinity it's not just
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SPEAKER_02: about emotional intelligence though it's about physical intelligence it's
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SPEAKER_02: about body intelligence it's all it's a whole body approach your mind and your body
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SPEAKER_02: on the intelligence side
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SPEAKER_02: and i think if if folks want to keep putting out ideas and thoughts on
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SPEAKER_02: that i really appreciate it on how we can approach this
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SPEAKER_02: and how we can approach making that series itself even better because i want that
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SPEAKER_02: that is one of my primary series that's one of my favorite things to talk
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SPEAKER_02: about is how do we make ourselves better and so
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SPEAKER_02: i'm going to shift now i guess to the second part of our conversation
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SPEAKER_02: and eric i'll lead you into this is you went into doc g's live yesterday or
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SPEAKER_02: the other day and made a comment two days ago two days ago and i want to make sure
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SPEAKER_02: that we approach that comment and i want to give the floor to you is you made
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SPEAKER_02: a comment that in my view was inappropriate in the situation
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SPEAKER_02: and eric and i have talked about this eric and i have talked behind privately
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SPEAKER_02: about this together and now like i said we're going to talk publicly because that's
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SPEAKER_02: the right thing to do is we talk privately in my opinion that's not
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SPEAKER_02: for everybody it does not have
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SPEAKER_02: to be everybody's opinion i'm just giving what i'm doing right now eric and i talked
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SPEAKER_02: about this privately i have been getting feedback non-stop from women and
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SPEAKER_02: from people who are not me
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SPEAKER_02: and who don't look like me. I am asking for feedback because I want to make sure that
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SPEAKER_02: what I'm doing doesn't hurt those that I advocate for, and so Eric let's approach this comment
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SPEAKER_02: is you made a comment in Doc G's chat of asking why it wasn't done privately
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SPEAKER_01: and because i came late into the chat i was trying to get caught up with the conversation
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SPEAKER_02: yes and so my wife yes the question itself can be very benign and
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SPEAKER_02: the intent didn't match the impact correct and i think that's where we really need
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SPEAKER_02: to focus and eric i want to give you the floor to talk about it i may interrupt you
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SPEAKER_02: if i need to um you and i know this we interrupt each other when we need
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SPEAKER_02: to too is i just want to give you the floor to talk about it to to
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SPEAKER_02: to say your statement on what you need to say here for to help rectify the impact of
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SPEAKER_01: that statement so when we when you start the show when you're talking
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SPEAKER_01: about intent versus outcome right so my intent in going to that chat which was
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SPEAKER_01: a mistake first of all that was something i never should have done especially coming
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SPEAKER_01: in late
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SPEAKER_01: two and i and it wasn't like i like just came in and just started popping off in
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SPEAKER_01: the chat i was listening for a few minutes but
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SPEAKER_01: the question i asked was insensitive didn't have enough of
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SPEAKER_01: the entire situation analyzed and didn't have enough of the information
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SPEAKER_01: about what had happened to properly ask that question in a format
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SPEAKER_01: or even not even ask the question that's entirely just give dr g space
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SPEAKER_01: to discuss what had happened
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SPEAKER_01: what i do want to say is
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SPEAKER_01: that i have always championed supported platformed you know women creators
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SPEAKER_01: in this space because the algorithms are designed to make them compete not
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SPEAKER_01: to make them hurt
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SPEAKER_01: and that was the role of my article this morning for those of you
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SPEAKER_01: that haven't read it yet but the ultimate point here is that this is an apology
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SPEAKER_01: from me to those who I have wronged if anything that I had said in any way shape
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SPEAKER_01: or form was meant or taken in offense I deeply apologize because that's not
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SPEAKER_01: the person that you see in front of you
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SPEAKER_01: judge me by my actions not by my gender
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SPEAKER_01: and i'd rather just leave it at
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SPEAKER_02: that that's fair i think we need
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SPEAKER_02: to own our mistakes we're gonna have our friend ashley a lauren come on here too um
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SPEAKER_02: she's asked to to join the the show and have a discussion
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SPEAKER_02: with us um hey robes welcome hey everyone in the audience thank you all
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SPEAKER_02: for being here thank you for adding to this discussion with us there's a lot
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SPEAKER_02: of emotion and we want to address it head on i just need to say one more thing
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SPEAKER_01: and i don't want to inflame the situation okay we're you know two wrongs don't make
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SPEAKER_01: a right
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SPEAKER_01: it wasn't okay for me to comment what i said in the chat
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SPEAKER_01: but it also wasn't appropriate the responses that were given back
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SPEAKER_01: to me
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SPEAKER_01: like it's not okay
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SPEAKER_01: to
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SPEAKER_01: then blast me into oblivion
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SPEAKER_01: for for something
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SPEAKER_01: that i didn't cause the harm
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SPEAKER_01: I just became the figure statuene target because I happened to be in the room.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm going to just interject in here so that we don't go down a path of blame for everyone.
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SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
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SPEAKER_02: I know where your intent is on this.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: I know what you're saying.
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SPEAKER_02: Where your intent was on this?
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SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm not phrasing it properly.
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SPEAKER_02: And the impact on it is going to be really...
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SPEAKER_02: not what you want i want to just say that you're the impact from continuing down
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SPEAKER_02: that discussion is not not going to be a good one
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SPEAKER_01: because yeah i don't want actually let's not even go there because i don't want
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SPEAKER_01: to minimize we don't want we're not here to minimize any of the harm
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SPEAKER_01: that has been done that's not my point it's not my intent here it's it's yeah i do
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SPEAKER_01: not want any harm that has already been done
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SPEAKER_02: the point is is to learn from this yes and i think for now our intent is
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SPEAKER_02: to my intent is not to wash myself clean i am owning the fact that the way
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SPEAKER_02: that i first approached doc g in private message was not taken the way
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SPEAKER_02: that i had hoped it would be my intent and the impact was wrong and
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SPEAKER_02: we are we wanna own that i wanna own that is that i will do better
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SPEAKER_02: and that's why we're here we shifted our entire conversation today
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SPEAKER_02: from what we had originally intended for this show to be to ensure
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SPEAKER_02: that we are very clear i openly denounce any form of rape culture always
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SPEAKER_02: as do i was i was not clear enough
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SPEAKER_02: in my messages and i was not the intent did not hit or the impact was not enough in
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SPEAKER_02: the messages i put out and i think it's important that i own that and learning learn
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SPEAKER_02: on it i'm owning that i what am i owning is that i did not do enough or and not or
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SPEAKER_02: and
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SPEAKER_02: the way that i had asked for further context and approach the situation was harmful
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SPEAKER_02: to doc g and i should have been much clearer
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SPEAKER_02: on how i said it i should have owned i should have come
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SPEAKER_02: in much different i should have come in differently
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SPEAKER_02: because i was asking for additional context and additional information
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SPEAKER_02: so i could be well informed on how i spoke
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SPEAKER_02: and the way that it was asked didn't come
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SPEAKER_02: across the way that it was intended and so that's what i'm owning so i'm owning
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SPEAKER_02: that i didn't do enough that the way oh ashley just dropped off i was going
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SPEAKER_02: to bring her in um and so this
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SPEAKER_02: that's really what i wanted to to say for me and i want to make sure
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SPEAKER_02: that we don't go down any roads of minimizing impact
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SPEAKER_02: on others no matter what our intent was and so hey neuro thanks
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SPEAKER_02: for joining we we have been discussing i'll catch you up
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SPEAKER_02: and i'll catch everybody up um ashley come back when you can i'm going to bring you
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SPEAKER_02: in um is we're owning the fact that our intent
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SPEAKER_02: over these last couple days has not matched the impact that it should have
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SPEAKER_02: and we need to do better and we need to learn from this we're here
20:44
SPEAKER_02: to listen louder we're here to address and adjust where needed so
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SPEAKER_02: that we can be proper advocates and allies in this because i advocate
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SPEAKER_02: for these rights all the time i disown
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SPEAKER_02: anything about rape culture it is disgusting it is dehumanizing
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SPEAKER_02: and it
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SPEAKER_02: is on all
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SPEAKER_02: of us to fix that it is on men to fix other men it is on women
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SPEAKER_02: to fix other women it is on others who are not
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SPEAKER_02: in the gender heteronormative spectrum to fix themselves
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SPEAKER_02: in each other too
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SPEAKER_02: there is rape culture across the spectrum and we are addressing
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SPEAKER_02: that and i want to be accountable for that i'm owning the fact
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SPEAKER_02: that my actions hurt somebody that hurt doc g i had and that was never my intent
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SPEAKER_02: but the intent doesn't matter because the impact was the harm
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SPEAKER_02: and
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SPEAKER_02: so eric do you have anything else you want to want to put
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SPEAKER_02: in there i'm hoping ashley joins us as well and if there's others who may want
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SPEAKER_02: to try and come in let us know i'm i'm happy to bring up other voices
22:19
SPEAKER_02: because this is a really important conversation to own our faults and
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SPEAKER_02: take accountability the definition that i've come up with of
22:33
SPEAKER_02: the definition
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SPEAKER_02: that i had come up with for intelligent masculinity is it is the refusal
22:38
SPEAKER_02: to outsource accountability onto others and the willingness to live with
22:42
SPEAKER_02: the consequences of our values and actions and the consequences
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SPEAKER_02: of this week have we have not is i
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SPEAKER_02: I need to learn how to approach these situations in a way that is clear and a way
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SPEAKER_02: that doesn't harm.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd love to understand what that term means, empathetic.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what that terms actually means.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Let me get what I need you to say out there because I…
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm going to bring Naida in as well.
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SPEAKER_02: Naida Green, she asked if
23:25
SPEAKER_02: she could jump into and I'd love
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SPEAKER_02: her feedback but go ahead.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to get into what
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SPEAKER_01: I said but whatever I had
23:34
SPEAKER_01: said it was wrong
23:36
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't clumsy
23:38
SPEAKER_01: It wasn' taken out of context
23:39
SPEAKER_01: It was just wrong
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SPEAKER_01: The people that
23:43
SPEAKER_01: I had said the comment
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SPEAKER_01: don't owe me any benefit
23:47
SPEAKER_01: or the doubt
23:47
SPEAKER_01: and I'm not going to ask for it, okay?
23:51
SPEAKER_01: i have written before about knowing the difference between speaking for women
23:55
SPEAKER_01: and standing beside them and in that particular moment i didn't do either one
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SPEAKER_01: of those it's it's one thing to hold a principle on the page it's the other
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SPEAKER_01: to hold it live and i didn't have any time to edit myself before i had stupidly sent
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SPEAKER_01: the question and i failed that harder test and the failure is mine alone
24:18
SPEAKER_01: um i don't get to be the one that decides how quickly this is forgiven or
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SPEAKER_01: whether it even is forgiven um what i can always do is be very clear about
24:27
SPEAKER_01: where i stand on things is that sexual violence is not a punchline it's not
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SPEAKER_01: a hypothetical it's never rhetorical it's it's a culture we are living in a culture
24:38
SPEAKER_01: that treats any one of those things as one
24:41
SPEAKER_01: that i've always spent my entire platform arguing against
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SPEAKER_01: on this show and others and in my writings and publications and in that once
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SPEAKER_01: that one moment in time i undercut my own argument with my own words
24:57
SPEAKER_01: and i'm accountable for that gap so to anyone who has trusted me before and
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SPEAKER_01: about meaning what i write and what i say and heard something different
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SPEAKER_01: from me i'm i am sorry
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SPEAKER_01: And I'm just going to sit with this and rush past it because
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SPEAKER_01: I need to listen louder and learn from this.
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SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, Nick earlier,
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SPEAKER_01: I am open to discussing this
25:26
SPEAKER_01: but if it cannot be on a one way
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SPEAKER_01: It's got to be an open bilateral conversation
25:33
SPEAKER_01: that can't be a one-way street of
25:36
SPEAKER_01: just bashing the hell out of me
25:39
SPEAKER_02: That's not how this works
25:42
SPEAKER_02: and we're not looking for sympathy at least i'm not looking
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SPEAKER_02: for sympathy there's no sympathy that is needed
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SPEAKER_02: towards me there's no i i don't need sympathy i'm just here to own what happened
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SPEAKER_02: and learn from it so we have brought
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SPEAKER_02: on two friends here good morning good afternoon we've got ashley a lauren with us
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SPEAKER_02: and naida green welcome friends thank you for joining us and being a part
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SPEAKER_02: of this conversation and and helping us
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SPEAKER_02: learn to grow learn and grow so can i can i just say something yeah about this
26:18
SPEAKER_00: so i'm saying this in my personal capacity not as ceo of disability community
26:24
SPEAKER_00: for democracy that's why i took the background down um and i do think it's important
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SPEAKER_00: because i am a sexual assault survivor via intimate partner violence and also
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SPEAKER_00: a person of color
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SPEAKER_00: We need to also like talk about that nuance in what's happening here.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: That's why I said,
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SPEAKER_00: I was willing to come on.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: I spoke a little bit about this earlier and a lot of this is triggering for me.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing this as like,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I am re harming myself to have this conversation.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: And I just want people to understand that
27:00
SPEAKER_00: i'm doing this not because these two men are my friends i am doing this
27:05
SPEAKER_00: because i need people to understand the racial nuance to this conversation
27:10
SPEAKER_00: as well that's why i'm doing this
27:19
SPEAKER_02: i'm muted thank you naida thank you for saying
27:21
SPEAKER_02: that clearly too is um and i'm i'm sorry that you have to relive any
27:26
SPEAKER_02: of your experiences
27:28
SPEAKER_02: I know I didn't do them to you in any way.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Don't apologize, don't apologize.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: It just makes it worse.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for stopping me.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: Thank you thank you for being here with us.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: Thank you sharing.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Thank you having the courage
27:46
SPEAKER_02: to share and the courage
27:48
SPEAKER_02: to be open
27:49
SPEAKER_02: and discuss this.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: Ashley welcome
27:54
SPEAKER_03: Hey, welcome
27:57
SPEAKER_03: hey naida um you're awesome by the way thank you you and niff you guys um thank you
28:03
SPEAKER_03: for all that you're doing i know it's a lot i know
28:06
SPEAKER_03: the more involved you get i feel this on my own and and eric
28:10
SPEAKER_03: and we can all you know we all try yep
28:16
SPEAKER_02: oh we lost her we lost your camera
28:27
SPEAKER_03: is it just my feed that's weird yep we can still hear you
28:32
SPEAKER_02: we just can't see you anymore your voice sounds like a little alien she did the disappearing
28:38
SPEAKER_03: sorry if you could hear me it's a disappearing camera funny but
28:42
SPEAKER_03: you know what i'm gonna take my this see if i can do this
28:50
SPEAKER_02: you sound great though so yeah you sound
28:54
SPEAKER_02: great in this oh she left
28:59
SPEAKER_01: By the way, that was a great show you did with Dana and Lawrence this morning.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: That was A+.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, it was so powerful.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: It was a powerful, powerful conversation this morning
29:10
SPEAKER_00: I thank you
29:11
SPEAKER_00: It was hard one because
29:13
SPEAKER_00: it's Disability Pride Month
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And it has been hard over the last few days
29:18
Okay
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah we can see you
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead Ashley
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead
29:24
SPEAKER_00: I can share
29:25
SPEAKER_00: No
29:26
SPEAKER_02: And she is gone again
29:28
SPEAKER_00: All right.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: We'll work with Ashley on that as we go here.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my theory of the case and what's happening is there's a lot of layers
29:42
SPEAKER_00: here there is of course like the trauma
29:48
SPEAKER_00: of you know i'm a member of the lgbtq community i am a woman
29:52
SPEAKER_00: who is gender non-conforming and so i i understand i am not trans
29:57
SPEAKER_00: and i'm just gonna make this clear i am not transgender so i cannot speak about
30:01
SPEAKER_00: that experience but i can speak about what it's like to be
30:05
SPEAKER_00: a woman who's gender non-conforming and have to deal with that nuance
30:10
SPEAKER_00: when men are being disrespectful
30:13
SPEAKER_00: and then also as a woman of color who is both black american and latina
30:20
SPEAKER_00: and i get sexualized in that space you know um especially when i used
30:27
SPEAKER_00: to straighten my hair and wear more feminine looking clothing um i used
30:33
SPEAKER_00: to wear dresses all the time and stuff like that and that's what i felt comfortable
30:36
SPEAKER_00: with when i was younger
30:37
SPEAKER_00: the nuance is getting lost here right like chris did what chris did
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Doc G had the response.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking at this from like,
30:50
SPEAKER_00: and I don't know
30:51
SPEAKER_00: like the whole story
30:53
SPEAKER_00: around a bed of glasses
30:54
SPEAKER_00: and everything.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: However, it doesn't matter
30:57
SPEAKER_00: if how you speak to people
31:01
SPEAKER_00: does matter.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: And I am saying this
31:02
SPEAKER_00: as a survivor
31:04
SPEAKER_00: of sexual assault
31:06
SPEAKER_00: if you are attacking
31:07
SPEAKER_00: a person
31:07
SPEAKER_00: because they're asking
31:09
SPEAKER_00: a question
31:09
SPEAKER_00: all it does
31:10
SPEAKER_00: is push people away
31:12
SPEAKER_00: It does not help.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: right and and it was like blame all men and all of that and i'm like i can't do that
31:22
SPEAKER_00: because as a person who is black who traces some of the ancestry to descendants
31:30
SPEAKER_00: of slaves and slavery in this country black men and specifically have been murdered
31:37
SPEAKER_00: over rape culture and black women have been disproportionately assaulted
31:45
SPEAKER_00: due to rape culture so i stayed out of it because it was like
31:51
SPEAKER_00: the nuance was getting lost and i and i and nick and eric both know how i feel
32:01
SPEAKER_00: about white men you know in more in the progressive space i don't trust them at all
32:09
SPEAKER_00: because of my experience with them especially around race and disability
32:14
SPEAKER_00: and if i'm on this platform saying that these are two good men and
32:18
SPEAKER_00: that you know we're not perfect i've had bad reactions
32:21
SPEAKER_00: over my own personal experience around assault and what people have said
32:27
SPEAKER_00: then you know like yes people have a right to make the decision to you know decide
32:34
SPEAKER_00: to forgive people for the things that they say but as somebody who has been i'm
32:40
SPEAKER_00: a survivor of intimate partner violence
32:43
SPEAKER_00: which included sexual assault i am also a crime survivor in terms
32:49
SPEAKER_00: of my cousin being murdered and i forgave the person who killed my cousin
32:54
SPEAKER_00: because it was done in an intimate partner situation i think we need to take
32:58
SPEAKER_00: a step back and like look at like none of us are perfect and unfortunately at least
33:05
SPEAKER_00: from what i'm seeing the people who are who this happened to neither one
33:10
SPEAKER_00: of them have a perfect
33:12
SPEAKER_00: neither one of them are perfect in this either and that's the scary part
33:16
SPEAKER_00: of like this whole story it's like this person's reacting and this person's reacting
33:22
SPEAKER_00: and and like we're lumping all the different harms together and we just need
33:27
SPEAKER_00: to treat people as human beings that's my
33:30
SPEAKER_00: My point of view on this is that we're all human and we need to understand the cultural nuances
33:36
SPEAKER_00: of what's happening, but we also don't get to be disrespectful to people when they're asking
33:40
SPEAKER_00: questions. And even if you're triggered, you got to take a step back and look at why you're
33:45
SPEAKER_00: triggered. I learned that in therapy myself, like, you know, why am I being triggered?
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying this as a survivor myself. So I don't know if I'm going to say makes any sense
33:55
SPEAKER_00: to people
33:58
SPEAKER_01: it makes a lot of sense
34:01
SPEAKER_01: it was it was honest ashley you're in with us too welcome back welcome back kids
34:14
SPEAKER_02: are important
34:14
SPEAKER_02: i don't hear anything oh do you not hear us
34:21
SPEAKER_00: And and unfortunately, I mean, I'm going to say this. Women have weaponized their trauma
34:25
SPEAKER_00: and so are people who are gender nonconforming in trans at times.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: And I say this as somebody who's had it actually happen to me been on what happened to Eric.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: So I've been an Eric shoes when you know, I've misspoken and the trauma was weaponized.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: so I just want to
34:44
SPEAKER_00: say that
34:45
SPEAKER_02: and I
34:48
SPEAKER_02: think this is
34:51
SPEAKER_02: my opinion i think this is just a really important conversation
34:55
SPEAKER_02: that we open open ourselves to feedback and that we're willing
35:01
SPEAKER_02: to step back ourselves and understand where we cause harm and thank you naida
35:10
SPEAKER_02: for again for having to relive through trauma to talk about this
35:16
SPEAKER_02: and re-expose yourself to that experience to discuss this because
35:21
SPEAKER_02: i don't know that experience in that way i don't know that experience
35:27
SPEAKER_02: and i can't talk about it i can't either no way and we're and we're just trying
35:34
SPEAKER_02: to learn in my my goal is to learn to listen louder like i i have talk i say
35:43
SPEAKER_02: a lot now is listen louder hear more and this week i am listening louder
35:51
SPEAKER_02: i have reached out to as many people in my circle who i can to ask to understand
36:00
SPEAKER_02: to learn and grow i've reached out to as many folks around me as i can
36:08
SPEAKER_02: who have experiences i don't so that i can understand where i did harm or
36:15
SPEAKER_02: where i didn't
36:17
SPEAKER_02: and how I can grow from it, what that experience caused others.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: Because I don't want to inflame others' experiences.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: I don'T want to harm.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: And I want to get to the root of what we can fix.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: But I can address and talk about.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: what needs to happen going forward i can address that issues need
36:52
SPEAKER_02: to be addressed need to be spoken and the intentionality of this discussion is
36:58
SPEAKER_02: to address that is take accountability where we can i don't and our friend neuro in
37:05
SPEAKER_02: the chat made a really good point was forgiveness has to be earned and that goes
37:12
SPEAKER_02: for all of us is
37:15
SPEAKER_02: i don't want i'm not asking for forgiveness i have to earn that i have
37:21
SPEAKER_02: to earn trust back i have to earn that back in my actions and not just intend it
37:27
SPEAKER_02: to happen i have to earn that back
37:33
SPEAKER_00: but i'm also going to say this that does not mean
37:35
SPEAKER_00: that you're you know that you need
37:36
SPEAKER_00: to put yourself you know like you know like hang yourself by the stick either
37:42
SPEAKER_00: and i said this to you in private i said
37:46
SPEAKER_00: you're not feeling well you also have a disability and i want people
37:49
SPEAKER_00: to understand like when we have to address harm we also are harming ourselves
37:56
SPEAKER_00: at times physically on top of that and i said to him i think you should cancel not
38:03
SPEAKER_00: because he's trying to get out of it he's not feeling well i slept
38:08
SPEAKER_02: for 13 hours last night okay because my body no i'm saying this in the in
38:13
SPEAKER_02: the i'm not feeling well
38:15
SPEAKER_02: i slept my body shut down yesterday the stress of this week on trying
38:22
SPEAKER_02: to figure out how i can be a good advocate along with the stress of diage of
38:28
SPEAKER_02: the um olmstead decision and the actions that are being done there and the support
38:35
SPEAKER_02: that we need to put in to get disability rights codified um i
38:43
SPEAKER_02: my body gave up last night like i fell asleep at eight o'clock at night and i slept for 13
38:49
SPEAKER_02: hours and i woke up in a flare and naida told me don't do your show today take care of yourself
38:58
SPEAKER_02: yes love
39:02
SPEAKER_02: I'll be right back y'all okay it's cool
39:06
SPEAKER_00: not excusing what nick and what happened in the interaction it still needs
39:11
SPEAKER_00: to be addressed but not at this point
39:14
SPEAKER_00: of your own health i'm sorry like i would never advocate for
39:17
SPEAKER_01: that anyway no no your your health has to come primarily first you have to be able
39:23
SPEAKER_01: to take care of you first
39:24
SPEAKER_00: and that's standard i i'm literally saying like you know some of the stress
39:30
SPEAKER_00: that maybe what's happening and i i need people to understand context
39:34
SPEAKER_00: we have administration that wants to put
39:41
SPEAKER_00: who does not value anybody
39:42
SPEAKER_00: who isn't white male and heterosexual like
39:46
SPEAKER_00: or heterosexual presenting right one right um and then white women who are adjacent
39:52
SPEAKER_00: to that right who fall into that category and when you have a disability and and
40:00
SPEAKER_00: both eric and nick are jewish on top of that so they are marginalized in in terms
40:06
SPEAKER_00: of their religion i i don't know eric if you're a heterosexual
40:09
SPEAKER_00: or not i i you know i'm not gonna make that assumption but you also have to deal
40:16
SPEAKER_00: with like marginalization around the anti-semitism on on in this space
40:22
SPEAKER_00: is that you get to a point where you want contacts for things
40:27
SPEAKER_00: because you do not want to say the wrong thing
40:29
SPEAKER_00: and isn't we're all human beings we're not perfect and i want people to understand
40:36
SPEAKER_00: that when your rights are under attack and they can now say state and territories
40:43
SPEAKER_00: and local government and county government if you need help and you go to one
40:48
SPEAKER_00: of those state facilities that hey we can now put you in them
40:52
SPEAKER_00: and like there's grace that needs to be given there too and just
41:00
SPEAKER_00: because these two men are white that does not mean they're they don't have to deal
41:06
SPEAKER_00: with marginalization and i hate the fact that we ignore marginalization just
41:12
SPEAKER_00: because somebody has a skin tone that gives them some privilege
41:19
SPEAKER_00: because that's also harmful
41:21
SPEAKER_00: because i know play of white poor white people who are more harmed by the system
41:26
SPEAKER_00: because they don't have the education on class privilege that i have so i just want
41:31
SPEAKER_00: to say that too that nick has a lot
41:36
SPEAKER_00: on his plate he owned it he has apologized eric has owned his stuff and apologized
41:42
SPEAKER_00: but i also want people to look at nuance and and it's not always all about you
41:47
SPEAKER_00: and i've owned my stuff i have apologized to people when i have said some stuff
41:52
SPEAKER_00: but i don't apologize if somebody's being ableist or you know or or minimizing
41:58
SPEAKER_00: or being hypocritical and i have called people out for the hypocrisy
42:02
SPEAKER_00: in this space especially around you know antisemitism and especially around ableism
42:07
SPEAKER_00: when they say listen to black women and they're not listening to me right
42:12
SPEAKER_00: because my political beliefs don't match theirs.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Or when I say you're not doing it
42:17
SPEAKER_00: in an intersectional manner,
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Nick has seen what I've gone through
42:21
SPEAKER_00: and will own my stuff
42:25
SPEAKER_00: when necessary
42:27
SPEAKER_00: but in this case
42:28
SPEAKER_00: everybody played a part of what happened
42:31
SPEAKER_00: and why it's gotten to
42:33
SPEAKER_00: this point
42:33
SPEAKER_00: and it's not about victim shaming
42:36
SPEAKER_00: it's about everyone is an adult
42:38
SPEAKER_00: and everybody has to own their stuff
42:41
SPEAKER_01: there's a there's a term we all use in medical legal called comparative liability
42:48
SPEAKER_01: where everybody who's involved has a role and a responsibility in damages
42:54
SPEAKER_01: that are caused to a patient
42:58
SPEAKER_01: and i i'm just gonna say this i mean i'm 55 so i'm one
43:02
SPEAKER_01: of the older gen xers and it's not a generational thing i don't
43:09
SPEAKER_01: i'm not i cannot excuse the behavior of people who weaponize their traumas
43:16
SPEAKER_01: because that's not you're not using that's not being intelligent either that's not
43:25
SPEAKER_01: being mature enough to understand
43:26
SPEAKER_01: that weaponizing your own trauma it's almost like doubling down on it you're trying
43:35
SPEAKER_01: to still make somebody else responsible for your trauma that they have nothing to do
43:39
SPEAKER_01: and my my role here was not to whitewash it
43:45
SPEAKER_01: or forgive what i've done that's again just like nick said i'm not asking
43:48
SPEAKER_01: for forgiveness it's not mine to give or mine to take it's it's but at
43:55
SPEAKER_01: the same time you cannot ignore technology i don't know
43:59
SPEAKER_03: if you guys can hear me
44:03
SPEAKER_00: we can can you hear us
44:07
SPEAKER_01: um
44:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, I just hope that people can see beyond.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like
44:13
SPEAKER_01: I want
44:15
SPEAKER_01: the action
44:16
SPEAKER_00: I lost a subscriber
44:18
SPEAKER_00: by the way over this
44:22
SPEAKER_00: because
44:23
SPEAKER_00: of my
44:25
SPEAKER_00: because I'm working with
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Nick on this
44:30
SPEAKER_00: like somebody was
44:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm out
44:32
SPEAKER_00: and I had nothing
44:33
SPEAKER_00: to do with
44:34
SPEAKER_00: I am not even
44:35
SPEAKER_00: a part of
44:36
SPEAKER_00: this
44:36
SPEAKER_00: at all
44:37
SPEAKER_00: like
44:38
SPEAKER_00: I have no
44:38
SPEAKER_00: role in this
44:40
SPEAKER_00: and
44:41
SPEAKER_00: somebody was
44:41
SPEAKER_00: like
44:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm
44:42
SPEAKER_00: no longer
44:43
SPEAKER_00: going to
44:43
SPEAKER_00: subscribe
44:45
SPEAKER_01: you're an adult
44:46
SPEAKER_01: they have
44:46
SPEAKER_01: choice
44:46
SPEAKER_01: that's their
44:47
SPEAKER_01: choice
44:47
SPEAKER_01: as an
44:48
SPEAKER_01: adult
44:48
SPEAKER_00: now
44:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm just
44:49
SPEAKER_00: saying
44:49
SPEAKER_00: that's
44:49
SPEAKER_00: what
44:50
SPEAKER_00: happened
44:50
SPEAKER_00: to me
44:50
SPEAKER_00: when
44:50
SPEAKER_00: I told
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Nick
44:51
SPEAKER_00: about
44:51
SPEAKER_00: it
44:52
SPEAKER_00: but
44:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't
44:54
SPEAKER_00: think
44:54
SPEAKER_00: that
44:54
SPEAKER_00: was
44:54
SPEAKER_00: fair
44:56
SPEAKER_00: you know like they were very cryptic on why they you know were warning me
45:01
SPEAKER_00: and i'm just like this is i'm not i'm not involved you know
45:05
SPEAKER_00: and i also don't do gossip because it wasn't even coming from the person
45:09
SPEAKER_00: that it was happening to and so i just also want
45:12
SPEAKER_00: to be clear there like you know i'm also getting catching strays as as they say for
45:20
SPEAKER_00: wanting to actually fight for liberal democracy in a community
45:24
SPEAKER_00: that is being ignored you know like this is deeper
45:28
SPEAKER_00: than just like this Substack controversy which is harmful i'm not minimizing that
45:36
SPEAKER_00: but at the end of the day no one's going to care about this when you're
45:41
SPEAKER_00: when they want to court you away and stick you in an institution
45:45
SPEAKER_00: you know no one's gonna care about this if they you know they're not gonna care
45:50
SPEAKER_00: that this person didn't like this person they're gonna look at all of us
45:53
SPEAKER_00: who are pushing back and saying you know like you won't conform you need
46:00
SPEAKER_00: to be institutionalized or you know or you're gonna lose out and we just need
46:05
SPEAKER_00: to be unified and understand that we're not perfect
46:08
SPEAKER_00: and yes we gotta watch our intent and you know we gotta pay attention to our intent
46:12
SPEAKER_00: and stuff like that, but we cannot weaponize our trauma.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying this as somebody who probably could
46:18
SPEAKER_00: weaponize your trauma in every single way possible
46:21
SPEAKER_00: if I don't, Nick knows I donth
46:24
SPEAKER_00: I own stuff that he has told me
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I don' need to own
46:29
SPEAKER_00: and that's all
46:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to say on this
46:32
SPEAKER_00: I need to actually do some self-care
46:34
SPEAKER_00: because my food is here
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah go do that
46:37
SPEAKER_00: and i i hope this helped i hope this gave some context to the racial portion
46:44
SPEAKER_00: of what's happening here because this is not if this was
46:46
SPEAKER_00: a male versus female white versus white person i would not be involved
46:51
SPEAKER_00: but there was racial stuff going on here too at least
46:55
SPEAKER_00: from my perspective that's not being talked about
46:57
SPEAKER_02: so thanks i appreciate it thank you you're awesome
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you. I'll talk to
47:04
SPEAKER_00: you later, Nick. Yeah, we
47:06
SPEAKER_02: talk all the time, Naid and
47:07
SPEAKER_02: I will be back.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, friend.
47:12
SPEAKER_02: Love you, Nia.
47:12
SPEAKER_02: Thank you
47:14
SPEAKER_02: And hopefully
47:15
SPEAKER_02: we can get Ashley working
47:16
SPEAKER_02: and if not, we'll get her on
47:18
SPEAKER_02: for a discussion
47:21
SPEAKER_02: and I do want
47:22
SPEAKER_02: to make sure that
47:24
SPEAKER_02: we are very clear
47:26
SPEAKER_02: as I am not talking about
47:28
SPEAKER_02: anyone behind their
47:29
SPEAKER_02: back. I am addressing
47:31
SPEAKER_02: a harm
47:34
SPEAKER_02: i did
47:36
SPEAKER_02: and i wanted to own that as did i and i cannot say
47:47
SPEAKER_02: from my perspective i cannot say if someone is weaponizing their trauma or not
47:54
SPEAKER_02: that is my stance on this i do not know
47:58
SPEAKER_02: because it's not my trauma it's not my trauma
48:03
SPEAKER_02: i cannot say if somebody is weaponizing or not that is not at all the message
48:10
SPEAKER_02: that i am putting out and if that was what
48:12
SPEAKER_02: the impact was again i'm very sorry like my intent and the impact i would like
48:20
SPEAKER_02: to have is that we are all on the same page and that we can move forward
48:26
SPEAKER_02: with each other and that we can hear each other's traumas and we can see and get to
48:32
SPEAKER_02: the roots and actually fix the damn problem i want
48:37
SPEAKER_02: to fix these fucking problems rape culture is disgusting
48:45
SPEAKER_02: it's evil it's evil it is
48:48
SPEAKER_02: hurtful it is hateful and i am not here to downplay
48:55
SPEAKER_02: anyone's trauma at all ever and i've we've talked about this from the beginning is
49:02
SPEAKER_02: that we are owning this mistake and i am not asking for forgiveness
49:10
SPEAKER_02: because forgiveness is not something i can ask or demand
49:14
SPEAKER_02: for forgiveness is something earned because trust has to be earned back and i broke
49:21
SPEAKER_02: that trust
49:23
SPEAKER_02: And that is something I will live with.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: There's a consequence to that action, and part of that consequence, it doesn't matter
49:32
SPEAKER_02: what was said.
49:33
SPEAKER_02: That's the point of all of this.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: Thomas, I see what you're trying to get at, but the point isn't – the point doesn't
49:40
SPEAKER_02: matter of what exactly was said
49:44
SPEAKER_02: it's like the point of Chris Armitage wearing those meta glasses the point isn't
49:51
SPEAKER_02: that he didn't record or did record the point is he was wearing them in
49:56
SPEAKER_02: the first place
50:00
SPEAKER_02: the point is that there was a mistake and that we need to own
50:05
SPEAKER_02: the mistake and fix it not with conditions on the apology not with anything like
50:13
SPEAKER_02: that
50:14
SPEAKER_02: it is own it and forgiveness is granted by the forgiver by the person who
50:21
SPEAKER_02: and it's not even forgiveness is granted to us forgiveness is
50:25
SPEAKER_02: for yourself forgiveness is you are forgiving and moving forward doc g talked about
50:31
SPEAKER_02: that talked about forgiveness and how it is a personal act
50:35
SPEAKER_02: and i absolutely agree 100 behind those statements
50:43
SPEAKER_02: forgiveness is something that is granted to yourself and yes you may be forgiven
50:52
SPEAKER_02: but it's not really for you well the subject is impact verse intent that's
50:59
SPEAKER_02: the subject is impact verse intent and owning and accounting the accountability
51:05
SPEAKER_01: for our actions you know nick like i've i've been pretty clear
51:12
SPEAKER_01: i think you and i've been pretty clear on this about yeah you know i i have written
51:17
SPEAKER_01: about this i have stayed in my lane and i have let my co-author who was ashley of
51:22
SPEAKER_01: that article it wasn't for me to comment on the trauma that she needed
51:30
SPEAKER_01: to get out like i i know the lane i'm supposed to leave i know my lane and as a as
51:36
SPEAKER_01: a man it's not my place to comment on
51:41
SPEAKER_01: the effect of what sexual assault or rape or trauma that level of trauma does to
51:47
SPEAKER_01: a woman it is not my lane okay i can i can present it in a clinical format but
51:55
SPEAKER_01: the story and the emotive trauma behind that is not my story to ever tell and and
52:04
SPEAKER_01: that is what i try to hold very true to myself in my platform and and when i write
52:11
SPEAKER_01: is that i don't want that principle to ever be violated
52:18
SPEAKER_01: with my co-authors my guests my friends
52:21
SPEAKER_01: on here you know my colleagues cove creators you know it's
52:31
SPEAKER_01: that's just where we have
52:32
SPEAKER_01: to live that's what that's the space i have to live in
52:36
SPEAKER_01: and it's acknowledging everybody's trauma both men and women
52:41
SPEAKER_01: because men can be traumatized in the same way.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's understanding that we all have to learn how to deal with our traumas
52:52
SPEAKER_01: and learn how to cope and get help and get the mental health services required
52:57
SPEAKER_01: to help process the traumas.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: and we don't have those services you don't have enough is an issue the
53:05
SPEAKER_02: the services aren't there the support and i have talked about this extensively
53:12
SPEAKER_01: through what the maha movement's trying to do with the what what the the cuts to
53:17
SPEAKER_01: the american health care system have done
53:19
SPEAKER_01: but you think it's bad now wait till january when the medicaid cuts kick in in 27
53:23
SPEAKER_01: and forget forget the shit with olmstead and what they're trying to do with all that
53:28
SPEAKER_01: but it's it's all about
53:30
SPEAKER_01: they are trying to marginalize anything that has to do
53:33
SPEAKER_01: with mental health disease physical disease learning disability issues it's it's all
53:41
SPEAKER_01: this massive literally a whitewash of of
53:49
SPEAKER_01: we need to turn this country into a whites only club but the whites are the only
53:53
SPEAKER_01: the ones that the ones that are christian and don't have any physical issues
53:58
SPEAKER_01: and don't have any mental challenges or have kids that have learning disabilities
54:02
SPEAKER_01: or have mental health challenges you're talking about a very select limited limit of
54:09
SPEAKER_01: the population
54:13
SPEAKER_01: And that is not a world
54:14
SPEAKER_01: That I grew up in
54:16
SPEAKER_01: It's not a word
54:16
SPEAKER_01: That we are living in
54:18
SPEAKER_01: It's
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Not
54:19
SPEAKER_01: A community
54:19
SPEAKER_01: That
54:19
SPEAKER_01: We
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Live
54:20
SPEAKER_01: In
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Substack
54:23
SPEAKER_01: Certainly
54:23
SPEAKER_01: Not
54:24
SPEAKER_01: With my
54:24
SPEAKER_01: Friend
54:24
SPEAKER_01: To
54:25
SPEAKER_01: My
54:25
SPEAKER_01: Left
54:26
SPEAKER_01: Here
54:26
SPEAKER_01: Who
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Is
54:27
SPEAKER_01: A
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Dear
54:28
SPEAKER_01: Friend
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And
54:30
SPEAKER_01: Our
54:30
SPEAKER_01: Other
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Two
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Friends
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Evan
54:32
SPEAKER_01: And
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Walter
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Who
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Are
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Not
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Here
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Who
54:35
SPEAKER_01: Support
54:36
SPEAKER_01: All
54:37
SPEAKER_01: Of
54:37
SPEAKER_01: The
54:37
SPEAKER_01: Platforms
54:37
SPEAKER_01: That
54:38
SPEAKER_01: We
54:38
SPEAKER_01: Support
54:39
SPEAKER_01: The
54:39
SPEAKER_01: Candidates
54:40
SPEAKER_01: For
54:40
SPEAKER_01: Congress
54:41
SPEAKER_01: our friends are coming i have supported a lot of creators
54:45
SPEAKER_01: on this platform voluntarily without question
54:51
SPEAKER_01: not just monetarily but being in
54:53
SPEAKER_01: the chats and being supportive of their work and restacking and doing the things
54:58
SPEAKER_01: that a responsible person does when you're trying to move a community and it's
55:05
SPEAKER_01: about community building and in shit like this just tears it all down
55:13
SPEAKER_01: because that's what they want and we have to fight like hell
55:18
SPEAKER_01: for it every day just like we have to fight like hell
55:22
SPEAKER_01: to protect our disability community we have to fight our lbgtq community we have
55:26
SPEAKER_01: to fight our our our children our educational communities hey ash welcome back
55:36
SPEAKER_02: welcome ashley and yeah like there was an article that came out yesterday around
55:42
SPEAKER_02: the va
55:44
SPEAKER_02: and disability rights are directly under attack for the va now directly under attack
55:50
SPEAKER_02: the vfw is now being attacked for putting out a statement that what is going
55:57
SPEAKER_02: on is wrong what that is all i am focused on right now i have put everything else to
56:07
SPEAKER_01: the side and and it's said that you have to
56:11
SPEAKER_01: but it's such an important topic of conversation
56:14
SPEAKER_01: because it directly affects your life and your family's life i'm feared going to
56:21
SPEAKER_02: the doctor yeah well i do my mental health at the va yeah and they're going
56:28
SPEAKER_02: to start re-rating people you know that was an interesting sound ashley i don't know
56:34
SPEAKER_02: if you can hear us that was new but it was an interesting
56:39
SPEAKER_02: i liked it she's ashley's having some tech problems um we can hear you everybody got
56:45
SPEAKER_01: like the original topic of our show today yeah hi ash you can hear us
56:51
SPEAKER_03: i can't hear you at all yes and i'm ready to throw this fucking thing
56:56
SPEAKER_03: out the window sorry change of tone everyone dear god no uh and i don't know how i can do
57:04
SPEAKER_03: this with if i put it in the chat i can't hear anything
57:09
SPEAKER_02: i mean i'm going to put it in the chat which publication so there's two
57:13
SPEAKER_03: that have been there's no way you can just do regular Substack add a
57:17
SPEAKER_03: because i don't know if it's this fancy one is just not okay no not um
57:22
SPEAKER_03: so i'm just going to talk and i cannot read lips so if you have something
57:27
SPEAKER_03: to say just text me okay all right okay here we go um
57:33
SPEAKER_03: i'm so glad i tried to get like a nice little thing going here
57:35
SPEAKER_03: and it doesn't work anyway um so on this topic
57:38
SPEAKER_03: on this subject um this is it's been brewing and brewing
57:44
SPEAKER_03: and brewing i can't go okay thank you gotcha thank you so much for that confidence
57:50
SPEAKER_03: in there we're gonna do smoke signals next i don't know months it feels like right
57:56
SPEAKER_03: that like it's so i'm just gonna speak from what i'm
58:01
SPEAKER_03: feelings or whatever so it's just my point
58:04
SPEAKER_03: of view you know um just my opinion perception rather um so
58:13
SPEAKER_03: it's difficult
58:14
SPEAKER_03: because we're all angry i don't know where the camera is here
58:17
SPEAKER_03: to look that's how much how many selfies i take
58:19
SPEAKER_03: but we're all angry right stuff sucks we're all the reason why we're on here i think
58:24
SPEAKER_03: on this platform is that we're trying to do something
58:28
SPEAKER_03: whatever it is right and we're all really angry and we feel i think sometimes
58:31
SPEAKER_03: that nothing is actually getting done for change because it takes a long time but
58:37
SPEAKER_03: the thing is is that we're getting mad at each other and we're kind
58:43
SPEAKER_03: of putting this pressure on the community that we're spending time in for us all
58:51
SPEAKER_03: to meet the expectations of other people not to say that we shouldn't follow
58:55
SPEAKER_03: by standards
58:56
SPEAKER_03: because we should and i know myself there's so many issues that are really important
59:02
SPEAKER_03: and it's not that i don't feel strongly about them it's just
59:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, we only have so much time for what we have but
59:11
SPEAKER_03: I think we're kind of...we want to pick that fight sometimes with people
59:16
SPEAKER_03: because we're angry and we have all this stuff going on um
59:21
SPEAKER_03: And so it's really easy to see, you know something and be like well that's not
59:24
SPEAKER_03: to say it's not wrong.
59:26
SPEAKER_03: but what i'm saying is we're fighting
59:30
SPEAKER_03: with each other it's almost like you know your family you're shittiest to
59:32
SPEAKER_03: the people you're closest with right um same here like i think we're all on here
59:38
SPEAKER_03: because we're trying to do some good not that we're perfect not that we always say
59:44
SPEAKER_03: the right thing or we understand other people's frame of mind or reference to how
59:51
SPEAKER_03: when something is said it reflects it stirs something in them um
59:56
SPEAKER_03: But I think that's kind of key here, what I keep going back to.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_03: It's like at least we're all people
1:00:03
SPEAKER_03: that are trying to do better in some aspect
1:00:08
SPEAKER_03: for what it's worth.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I can speak on the fact that...
1:00:16
SPEAKER_03: And I am gonna say this about these two guys
1:00:18
SPEAKER_03: just because they mean something to me
1:00:22
SPEAKER_03: in regards of not because
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: of any other reason other than they were just cool and nice to me at a time
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: that i really fucking needed it like really needed it needed
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: to uh i don't know i just went through a you know a really hard time with abuse
1:00:42
SPEAKER_03: and
1:00:45
SPEAKER_03: involved my kids and it's just on whatever and it ended in a way
1:00:50
SPEAKER_03: that was like very unsettling and it took the wind out of me
1:00:56
SPEAKER_03: just you know i think i got to the point where i was like i was always trying
1:01:00
SPEAKER_03: to like be the bigger person be it be a good person do and give and
1:01:04
SPEAKER_03: then i just it seems like you just get it can see something seems sometimes like you
1:01:08
SPEAKER_03: just get screwed either way and i was just done like completely empty as far as
1:01:16
SPEAKER_03: when i had the kids i was good but when i didn't i was i was done so
1:01:20
SPEAKER_03: and um you know they you know they all reach out and you know i think
1:01:26
SPEAKER_03: virtual audiences it's all kind of weird right i mean when you're not used to it
1:01:30
SPEAKER_03: but it meant something to me in the fact that's more
1:01:33
SPEAKER_03: than just you know we can pick up on little things that are said and use it
1:01:38
SPEAKER_03: to judge people and and that's okay i understand that but we if we can also remember
1:01:44
SPEAKER_03: that like we're all we're not perfect you can see how done
1:01:47
SPEAKER_03: and undone my little space is here try not to show the laundry um
1:01:51
SPEAKER_03: but what i'm saying is
1:01:53
SPEAKER_03: we all need to kind of fucking relax in a way too a little bit not to say
1:01:57
SPEAKER_03: that it's not what they're apologizing for isn't warranted i get that i'm not saying
1:02:03
SPEAKER_03: that but life is so hard man it's just it's hard
1:02:10
SPEAKER_03: and these are we're all trying i think to be better in some way and
1:02:15
SPEAKER_03: so that's my piece is just that like we are all out here at least trying
1:02:21
SPEAKER_03: in some capacity to
1:02:23
SPEAKER_03: do or be better human beings and uh you know i don't know i mean i can be
1:02:31
SPEAKER_03: an sometimes i don't mean to be but we all can we all can be like that
1:02:35
SPEAKER_03: so i think we share in that regard and um i you know sorry this is a more of
1:02:41
SPEAKER_03: a discussion going back and forth but i can't hear anything
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: so is what it is this is you know whatever that's my thing and uh you know i mean
1:02:52
SPEAKER_03: I think we all mean well.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_03: And I think sometimes, you know,
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: I think like for me,
1:02:58
SPEAKER_03: I don't live in other people's heads
1:03:04
SPEAKER_03: and say things they don't leave in mine.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_03: So things that upset me
1:03:08
SPEAKER_03: and bother me,
1:03:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm not aware of sometimes
1:03:11
SPEAKER_03: when I do things
1:03:12
SPEAKER_03: but I do want to know
1:03:15
SPEAKER_03: I can take constructive criticism
1:03:17
SPEAKER_03: because I do wanna be better
1:03:18
SPEAKER_03: That's the goal here
1:03:19
SPEAKER_03: and I think they're kinda like that too
1:03:22
SPEAKER_03: um in a way but give them shit if they need it i'm not gonna say
1:03:25
SPEAKER_03: that like you know you know no earmuffs here i get that part of it but they're
1:03:31
SPEAKER_03: the kind of people that are receptive i mean trust me you want to talk about men
1:03:36
SPEAKER_03: who are abusive and things that they say i mean this is not even anywhere near
1:03:41
SPEAKER_03: the you know not to say it doesn't upset people but you know just
1:03:49
SPEAKER_03: we all try to do better and give these guys a break,
1:03:51
SPEAKER_03: a little bit.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_03: So that's my point of view.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_03: That's my two cents
1:03:56
SPEAKER_03: and it is what it is.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: All right, I'm going to get off.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, it was such a clusterfuck
1:04:02
SPEAKER_03: but you know, that's mine.
1:04:04
Bye.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_02: Thanks Ashley
1:04:06
SPEAKER_02: and I know she couldn't hear us there
1:04:09
SPEAKER_02: and we couldn't have a good back and forth
1:04:12
SPEAKER_02: which is unfortunate
1:04:13
SPEAKER_02: because I love talking with Ashley
1:04:17
SPEAKER_02: and I love the
1:04:19
SPEAKER_02: conversation that we've been having in this chat and in this overall discussion
1:04:26
SPEAKER_02: and we've gone an hour discussing this with that and i think it's
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: that too it's gone fast you know the actual topic of our show is supposed to be eye
1:04:35
SPEAKER_02: on the prize yeah we had a really good we have a really good discussion
1:04:41
SPEAKER_02: for next week already planned out i'll have more data
1:04:47
SPEAKER_02: yeah and we're going to be talking next week about
1:04:50
SPEAKER_02: the trump children specifically don jr and eric um
1:04:57
SPEAKER_02: because they are disgusting human beings
1:05:01
SPEAKER_02: and they are they have they spent four years or even longer projecting all
1:05:08
SPEAKER_02: of what they do onto someone like hunter biden everything about hunter is really
1:05:15
SPEAKER_02: the truth about them
1:05:17
SPEAKER_02: and we want to talk about that next week but today's conversation today's back
1:05:23
SPEAKER_02: and forth was super important was necessary because we need
1:05:29
SPEAKER_01: to own our accountability which will make us better men and better people yeah
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: which helps us learn to listen louder to hear more to
1:05:45
SPEAKER_02: to address flaws and faults in ourselves but and and then work on them
1:05:51
SPEAKER_02: with those around us because it doesn't stop here it doesn't stop with us making
1:05:58
SPEAKER_02: a direct apology in this manner it doesn't stop with us owning this
1:06:06
SPEAKER_02: and owning our own failures it is the next step of what do we do after that
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: how do we then take this learning to not just for ourselves but for those around us
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: and so i want to thank everyone for being a part of this conversation
1:06:28
SPEAKER_02: for interacting with us with the feedback and the comments and the discussion
1:06:35
SPEAKER_02: and i'm gonna i know it's not related to this conversation in any way um
1:06:44
SPEAKER_02: is i want to make sure that i do a final shout out before we leave is one i want
1:06:51
SPEAKER_02: to thank both naida and ashley for coming on and reliving their traumas
1:06:59
SPEAKER_02: for naida reliving her trauma and telling us and sharing it and that takes
1:07:05
SPEAKER_02: so much courage and i hope this opens space
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: for others my goal is to open space so that we can fix these root problems i want
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: to help it's part of that help fix things things
1:07:25
SPEAKER_02: that men have been taught is instinctually i want to help fix it
1:07:29
SPEAKER_02: and i know i may not be the right person to do that i'm not going to be the face of
1:07:33
SPEAKER_02: that i don't need to be the face of that but i do need to be the face of owning it
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: for myself
1:07:41
SPEAKER_02: and helping others around me see it and i think that's important is own your sphere
1:07:46
SPEAKER_02: of influence and be the best you can there so that we can all grow
1:07:54
SPEAKER_02: eric oh and
1:07:55
SPEAKER_02: then i wanted to give my shout out
1:07:59
SPEAKER_02: but eric i'm gonna give you just i'm gonna let you speak here but
1:08:02
SPEAKER_02: the big thing that's off topic is
1:08:05
SPEAKER_02: please please please i'm going to drop make sure that it's included in
1:08:08
SPEAKER_02: the article too is not only go to broadbanner.com slash crip dash crow
1:08:15
SPEAKER_02: which i don't remember if i have where the graphic was for that um there it is is go
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: to broadbanner.com slash crip dash crow and advocate for disability rights
1:08:29
SPEAKER_02: and freedoms because these rights when they get taken
1:08:32
SPEAKER_02: get taken from all of us not just people with disabilities this is an attack
1:08:38
SPEAKER_02: on descent this is an attack on those who are not within
1:08:43
SPEAKER_02: the tiny white tiny nationalist bubble it is an attack on all of us
1:08:50
SPEAKER_02: and chris goldsmith put out a really powerful article this morning too that
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: completely credits the author who brought it to his attention
1:09:01
SPEAKER_02: which is elizabeth hartman who he interviewed i believe he interviewed her
1:09:08
SPEAKER_02: but there was a story that came out yesterday from elizabeth hartman
1:09:13
SPEAKER_02: that public statements by the vfw as promoting quote inflammatory fear-mongering
1:09:20
SPEAKER_02: and dangerous political rhetoric
1:09:24
SPEAKER_02: to va secretary doug collins asking that the department of veterans affair to review
1:09:29
SPEAKER_02: whether the vfw should continue to be accredited
1:09:33
SPEAKER_02: to represent veterans seeking disability benefits
1:09:40
SPEAKER_02: that is fucking appalling
1:09:45
SPEAKER_01: yeah that's fucking disgusting i'm sorry
1:09:48
SPEAKER_02: and i wish i had more energy and i wish i felt good to talk about that right now
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's part of their re-rating system.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_02: That's what they want to do.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_02: They want a re-rate and what this will impact
1:10:01
SPEAKER_02: is ratings on things like tinnitus
1:10:04
SPEAKER_02: sleep apnea
1:10:05
SPEAKER_02: And they want
1:10:06
SPEAKER_02: to re- rate us so that they can
1:10:08
SPEAKER_02: save money
1:10:10
SPEAKER_02: because we're not fucking
1:10:12
SPEAKER_02: worth it in their eyes
1:10:14
SPEAKER_01: But you know what he did? This is how he fucking did it
1:10:16
SPEAKER_01: Because he's a piece of shit
1:10:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Doug Collins is a piece
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: of shit
1:10:20
SPEAKER_01: that what he did was he signed a final rule on february 11th and then invoked
1:10:25
SPEAKER_01: an emergency authority to bypass the 60-day congressional review period okay and
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: then the va also at that point then skipped the typical advanced public comment so
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: for those of you not really sure how the government systems work anytime
1:10:38
SPEAKER_01: an agency creates a rule they have to do a public comment period before
1:10:44
SPEAKER_01: that rule becomes policy before it becomes long-standing policy
1:10:48
SPEAKER_01: cms is guilty of this all the time when they before they you know the only two
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: three things they don't do when it comes to like final rules as
1:10:55
SPEAKER_01: they have to open up comment for is the hospital outpatient fee schedule
1:10:59
SPEAKER_01: the physician fee schedule and the hospital fee schedule
1:11:03
SPEAKER_01: and those they have
1:11:05
SPEAKER_01: to do final rules for and they're supposed to do them for coverage policies
1:11:07
SPEAKER_01: too but
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: this is the same type of thing this was
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: this is changing the va's long-standing policy by an emergency
1:11:14
SPEAKER_01: see
1:11:15
SPEAKER_01: invocation authority to bypass the 60-day congressional review period and then
1:11:20
SPEAKER_01: to completely bypass the public comments and then the substance of
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: the change is what's really the contested part what nick was talking about was that
1:11:28
SPEAKER_01: that the va examiners had to consider what a veteran's disability would look like
1:11:32
SPEAKER_01: without medication and then the new and then it was just and then the inversion
1:11:38
SPEAKER_01: of all that is really what is at the heart of the disability rights objection is
1:11:42
SPEAKER_01: that and i the reason why this is part of our
1:11:45
SPEAKER_01: show that we were going to do today too so that's why i'm so prepped on it but like
1:11:49
SPEAKER_01: but the vfw put a play with the va couldn't as opposed for years and and i know for
1:11:54
SPEAKER_01: a fact because i asked one of the attorneys that i do alj stuff with and he was
1:11:56
SPEAKER_01: a va he was a vfw veterans affairs administrative law judge
1:12:01
SPEAKER_01: and he literally said this that the va could never reduce ratings based on
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: the effects of medication requiring the evaluation of
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: a veteran's true functional impairment this is the new rule that's going to reverse
1:12:14
SPEAKER_01: that standard
1:12:15
SPEAKER_01: directing examiners to rewrite disabilities as they present and
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: to disregard unmedicated baseline severity so for somebody like nick
1:12:23
SPEAKER_01: who requires medication his baseline is totally different
1:12:29
SPEAKER_01: on medication versus off okay and then what really happens is
1:12:33
SPEAKER_01: that it's gonna it's gonna lead veterans to stop taking medications so
1:12:38
SPEAKER_01: that it rates them higher and we're talking six million veterans
1:12:48
SPEAKER_01: and this is the fucking danger with these people in the administration
1:12:53
SPEAKER_01: that they are willing to do this to our veterans
1:12:56
SPEAKER_01: so imagine what you think they're going to do to the general population
1:13:01
SPEAKER_01: and that's why what nick and nieta are doing is so important and i just want to make
1:13:08
SPEAKER_01: the clarification here that the holocaust was six million jews
1:13:13
SPEAKER_01: the va has six million veterans
1:13:15
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a little mini holocaust they're recreating with disability ratings
1:13:20
SPEAKER_01: with the VA.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_02: The whole goal is just to save money and get rid of us because we are a drain in their
1:13:29
SPEAKER_02: Was that rule?
1:13:32
SPEAKER_01: They backed off of that role, but then they dumped into the new disability shit
1:13:36
SPEAKER_01: that they're doing.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_02: yes and part of what they're trying to do is force veterans
1:13:43
SPEAKER_02: who are medically retired or retired to choose between their retirement payment
1:13:52
SPEAKER_02: that they get through the va for serving or through the government for serving
1:13:57
SPEAKER_02: for 20 plus years or do you get your disability one or the other not both
1:14:04
SPEAKER_02: and i'm going to explain here
1:14:06
SPEAKER_02: i must say this it might sound like that's double tapping it's not no it's eugenic
1:14:13
SPEAKER_02: retirement is your pension you earn that government employees after 20 years get
1:14:17
SPEAKER_02: a pension and for service if you were in the military even if you're not in service
1:14:24
SPEAKER_02: in the military well if you're in for 20 years and then you say go to work as
1:14:29
SPEAKER_02: a post office individual or
1:14:32
SPEAKER_02: someone else somewhere else in the government that adds
1:14:36
SPEAKER_02: to your federal retirement your pension through
1:14:39
SPEAKER_02: the federal government yep they are now they want to make it so veterans have
1:14:46
SPEAKER_02: to choose between one or the other because but money not retired congress people
1:14:54
SPEAKER_02: after six years yeah but congress people can get whatever the they want
1:14:59
SPEAKER_02: after six fucking years and not have to work a day in their life again
1:15:04
SPEAKER_02: and they ain't disabled not any many of those some of them are
1:15:11
SPEAKER_02: and i won't downplay any of their disabilities but the fact that they get
1:15:15
SPEAKER_02: a retirement after six fucking years that nobody ever talks about
1:15:19
SPEAKER_02: yet here we are taking veterans rights away and disability the veteran community is
1:15:26
SPEAKER_02: the most diverse community in this country
1:15:28
SPEAKER_02: aside from the disability community and you know who's a major part of
1:15:32
SPEAKER_02: the disability
1:15:33
SPEAKER_02: community
1:15:33
SPEAKER_02: the fucking veteran
1:15:35
SPEAKER_02: community
1:15:35
SPEAKER_01: bingo
1:15:37
SPEAKER_02: and we could spend another hour just talking about this one
1:15:42
SPEAKER_01: conversation
1:15:43
SPEAKER_02: we could
1:15:44
SPEAKER_02: spend all
1:15:45
SPEAKER_02: our time
1:15:45
SPEAKER_02: talking
1:15:46
SPEAKER_02: about this.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_01: so i the only thing i want to say is there was that so the what's still pending
1:15:51
SPEAKER_01: in federal court by the way is the enforcement there was litigation called it's it's
1:15:58
SPEAKER_01: the ingram case this is what's currently still sitting in federal in
1:16:01
SPEAKER_01: the federal circuit is that the ingram case is still sitting in the federal circuit
1:16:08
SPEAKER_01: with the litigation over the medication change
1:16:12
SPEAKER_01: so the enforcement was halted because of the lawsuit but the rule is never rescinded
1:16:19
SPEAKER_01: so this is this is still going everybody like there i mean this is like complete
1:16:24
SPEAKER_01: fucking chaos and if they can if they are successful
1:16:29
SPEAKER_01: at this we are all severely fucked
1:16:36
SPEAKER_01: because that's the first that's the main domino
1:16:38
SPEAKER_01: that goes when you screw over the veterans
1:16:43
SPEAKER_01: that's a massive domino
1:16:49
SPEAKER_01: and i and i one who treats veterans
1:16:54
SPEAKER_01: who my best friends are veterans this is really fucking messed up i mean do you like
1:17:03
SPEAKER_01: like if you live in maine right now this is a monster election
1:17:09
SPEAKER_02: and they're better i hope someone's fucking steps up real quick saying maine is
1:17:13
SPEAKER_01: because maine has more veterans that live in the state of maine than most states in
1:17:20
SPEAKER_01: the country they have the largest population of retired veterans so here's i'm going
1:17:26
SPEAKER_02: to shout this out to my veteran friends and brothers and sisters and others
1:17:30
SPEAKER_02: in arm anywhere on the spectrum anywhere in between if you are
1:17:35
SPEAKER_02: a veteran you now have a mission
1:17:39
SPEAKER_02: you have a mission again welcome welcome to the mission
1:17:44
SPEAKER_02: of saving our fucking rights welcome back brothers sisters and others in arms you're
1:17:52
SPEAKER_02: in this fight now too and if you're not you're not an ally or an advocate this bill
1:18:00
SPEAKER_02: that they misname as the let me get the name here because it's fucking
1:18:07
SPEAKER_02: um it is one of the most misleading names ever is take care
1:18:11
SPEAKER_02: of america's veterans act yeah take care of us all right by fucking eliminating us
1:18:19
SPEAKER_02: so that's what they that's what this is it is to take care
1:18:25
SPEAKER_02: to eliminate us it is fucking bull shit
1:18:33
SPEAKER_02: and that's where i need to be spending my time now too that's where i'm going
1:18:37
SPEAKER_02: to be spending because i've shifted focus on this platform as much as i didn't want
1:18:42
SPEAKER_02: to is we're now under direct assault on disability rights from across the board
1:18:53
SPEAKER_02: on veteran issues and on civilian side and if you are not
1:18:58
SPEAKER_02: on board you better fucking get there
1:19:03
SPEAKER_02: this is my life this is my wife's life this is my children this is my parents this
1:19:10
SPEAKER_02: is my brothers and their families we don't have a choice you don't have
1:19:17
SPEAKER_02: a choice you do i mean your choice is to stay silent or it's to do something
1:19:28
SPEAKER_02: and doing something means joining the calls and advocacy for the crip crow
1:19:34
SPEAKER_02: to speak out a bit against this save our veteran or take care
1:19:39
SPEAKER_02: of america's veterans act bullshit because that is a lie they don't want
1:19:45
SPEAKER_02: to take care of us they want to take our ratings away they want
1:19:49
SPEAKER_02: to take our retirements away they want to take our friends and family away
1:19:55
SPEAKER_02: so we won't let them
1:19:57
SPEAKER_02: All right, y'all. I'm going to end it here. My wife's giving me a call.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_02: I hope everyone has a wonderful day and a wonderful afternoon.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_02: Fight back, stand up, say no
1:20:06
SPEAKER_02: to Crip Crow, and we're done being sick of this shit.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everyone.