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Episode 87 - Sheila Gujrathi · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:04
So welcome back to the episode of the Bio Hub.
0:07
Today, we're thrilled to welcome on Sheila Gujarati, A visionary
0:10
physician, biotech entrepreneur and advocate for diversity in
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life sciences. Sheila's Co founded and LED
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multiple biotech companies, guided groundbreaking therapies
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in immunology, oncology, and inflammation, and played a
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pivotal role in major acquisitions worth billions.
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And Sheila's impact goes far beyond the lab and boardroom.
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She's a passionate advocate for women and underrepresented
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minorities in biotech and Co founding initiatives like the
0:37
Biotech CEO Sisterhood and the South Asian Biopharma Alliance.
0:42
She's also an author, sharing her insights, insights to
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inspire the next generation of leaders.
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So join us today as we'll discuss Sheila's new book, The
0:51
Mirror Effect, the biotech CEO Sisterhood and Leadership.
0:56
So Sheila, thanks so much for coming on.
0:58
How are you? Great, So great to be here.
1:03
Yeah, look, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on.
1:06
So let's just start off with with your book that you you
1:10
released recently, The Mirror Effect.
1:11
Congratulations on that. Could you just give us a brief
1:15
overview of the meaning behind the title of the book and what
1:18
inspired you to to write the book now?
1:23
Yes, it's, it's been such a journey and I would say a labour
1:27
of love. You know, I am so blessed to
1:31
have a wonderful career in the biotech and pharma space.
1:35
I am a clinician by background and I love really thinking about
1:39
patients, you know, and have them relate at the core of
1:43
whatever I'm doing. But I feel very fortunate that I
1:45
found this career in biotech, drug development and actually
1:49
then starting companies and founding them and growing them
1:52
to develop hopefully life changing and meaning very
1:55
meaningful therapies for patients.
1:58
So I embarked upon this journey, but I had a lot of lessons
2:00
learned along the way. So I often found myself the one
2:04
and only woman person of color, woman of color in review
2:10
committees and boardrooms. And as I was advancing into
2:14
higher levels of corporate leadership and then at the C
2:18
level of both as a, a chief medical officer and then a Co
2:22
founder and a chief executive officer or a board director or
2:25
chairwoman, I often found again that I was really sometimes the
2:29
only person in the room who looked like me, spoke with me,
2:32
spoke like me a a thought like me.
2:35
So like with that diversity of opinion.
2:38
But it did get more and more difficult, I think, as I got
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into these higher levels of leadership and I realized there
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was really no playbook or manual, but especially from
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people who have different backgrounds, you know, maybe
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underrepresented groups, minority groups, or even anyone
2:53
who thinks differently or feels like they don't fit in or
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belong. It can be incredibly lonely.
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And we don't necessarily have the same support networks and
3:01
learnings or like just maybe infrastructure to learn as some
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of our other allies and, and, and peers.
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So what I saw basically coming out of the Covic pandemic, I
3:13
decided, you know, it was time. It was time to actually pay it
3:17
back, pay it forward and say, can can I do more here to help
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advocate for my peers who felt like me, surround ourselves and
3:27
build it a bit bigger networking community and also help set up
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the next generations for better success than we, or at least
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better set them up for success than we had been.
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We had been. We are Trail Blazers.
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We're going out and we're we're, you know, sometimes breaking
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that glass ceiling both externally and internally.
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But I thought there just got to be a better way to do this.
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I'm really a big believer. And not recreating the wheel.
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I was a McKinsey consultant also.
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We always said, don't boil the ocean.
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You know, like, I love being practical.
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And I thought if I could, you know, really bring all my
3:59
lessons learned from my successes as well as my failures
4:02
into one book. And and and really just and it
4:07
just became this like labor of love.
4:08
It came. It was from this very deep place
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inside of me. It also coincided with the
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timing of when I started to build this organization that
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that's now known as the biotech CEO Sisterhood with two amazing
4:20
Co founders, Angie and Julia Owens.
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And then that all LED up to a Ted talk, a Ted X talk I did
4:25
last year where I talked about shattering the glass ceiling by
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finding the right mirrors. And I put all that into this
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book. And that's where the mirror
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effect came from. And the mirror effect has been
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again, this journey for me to really understand how important
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it is to have mirrors in our lives.
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Mirrors are external in terms of the folks who see us, hear us,
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truly believe in us, reflect our brilliance, have our back and
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support us and champion us to go into those a higher levels of of
4:52
leadership. But it's also the mirror effect
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is internal where we hold up our own mirror and face our inner
4:58
glass ceiling and our limiting thought patterns and beliefs to
5:01
really step into our power and be a really thriving leader.
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So that's, you know, kind of the encapsulation of what the mirror
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effect as a title has come to represent for me.
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But it's been again, this journey with lots of different
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lessons learned both personally and professionally that have
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really come into this book. Nice.
5:21
And it looks like there's been an awesome reaction to the book
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as well. I think I've seen a lot of
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people on LinkedIn. It's it's resonated with a lot
5:29
of people quite closely as well. So it looks like the reaction to
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the book's been super positive all round.
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I, I'm so thrilled that that has been the early response.
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It's been really overwhelming for me.
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I wrote also a journal, as you can see that I have a workbook
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journal as well as my book. And because I just wanted to
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make this as practical and helpful as possible.
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So while the book itself, you know, talks about different
5:58
lessons learned and, and it has summary sections for each
6:01
chapter, I've been want to take it one step further with
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journaling prompts and exercises per chapter and that people can
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do in peer groups to really make this come alive.
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The book officially launch launches on November 4th, but
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I've already been out doing a number of book launch events and
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I've, I've just gotten feedback. I I was at dinner last night
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with some colleagues and friends who literally one, one of the
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women shared that she just started crying when she was
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reading the book because this book to her so deeply.
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And again, just so people don't feel alone also along this
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journey, that they know I have their back and there is not
6:39
them, they're not alone. And you know, we can do this
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together. Nice.
6:43
I love that. And just look, looking back for
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your career, you've obviously LED major companies and guided
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successful exits previously in the past as well.
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What were some of the lessons learned about inclusive
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leadership that perhaps maybe only came after some of the
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successes that you had? You know, one of the biggest
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lessons learned was basically that I could do that.
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You know, I was in large biotech and large pharma, but Genentech
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and BMS. And then I decided to go into the small emerging
7:12
biotech space in my first role as a chief medical officer.
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You know, I think I surprised myself about how well I could
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operate as an executive and a leader, how I could be the
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external face of a company, how I could, you know, really drive
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a very innovative and accelerated development program
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and communicate well with investors.
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And I think I was an example of inclusive leadership.
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And prior in different roles I had in my career, I often was
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told that I wasn't the right fit for an executive role and that I
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I wouldn't be an appropriate external spokesperson.
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And I actually started to internalize that.
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OK, well, that's not for me. I can play these roles, but I
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won't be the one out in front. I won't be the one leading.
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And then I think, you know, my own personal story and those of
8:02
countless women and other leaders that come from different
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backgrounds really goes against that grain.
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And we're examples of how successful inclusive leadership
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can be for companies. And I think so, I think that was
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a huge set of lessons learned. And, and then of course, I have
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embraced that in the companies I have built for the companies
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that I have led and that that I'm currently leading.
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I don't even look at, you know, like the backgrounds.
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I mean, it just naturally becomes very inclusive.
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There's a lot of diversity at the board level, the C-Suite and
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then in the company itself where typically 50% or more women,
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again, different backgrounds. And I think it's just because
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that's the diversity of perspective and I'm looking for
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the best talent and that naturally just occurs.
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So I do think diversity and inclusiveness really drives
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performance and leads to better cultures because we basically
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have to take time to understand each other's perspectives more
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because we are coming together with a lot of different diverse
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perspectives, which only leads to better outcomes for our drugs
9:07
and our companies. Nice and just toxic workplaces I
9:12
think can be hard to name, let alone leave.
9:16
What do you think of some of the signs that you're in the wrong
9:18
ecosystem and what first steps should someone take to to move
9:22
forward if they're in that toxic environment?
9:26
Yeah, I really wanted to spend some time talking about this.
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My book has a three-part framework like in terms of like
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that road map or manual to, to really raise our levels of
9:38
leadership and, and, and really raise our levels of confidence
9:41
as well. The first part is holding up
9:43
your own mirror and knowing thyself.
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So we always start and end with ourselves really.
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So I think that I spent a lot of time on that.
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But the whole second part section section of the book is
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about understanding your environment, reflecting on your
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surroundings. And I, I spent time on this
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because I actually didn't realize that I was in some very
10:02
challenging work environments until after the fact.
10:05
Sometimes you don't know what difficult or challenging is
10:08
until you know what good looks like.
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I often make the analogy of being in a good relationship.
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You know, once you're in a good relationship, you're like, oh,
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I'll never go back to not being treated well.
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You know, it's kind of an eye opening experience for many of
10:21
us. I think that's true also of work
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environments when we're in a thriving, supportive, safe work
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environment and we know what, what that looks like, what that
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feels like for us, we're like, oh, I never want to settle for
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less. This is the type of work
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environment I want to work in. This is the type of manager I
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want to have. This is the type of peers and
10:41
culture I want to work in. And so, so I think that is
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really, it's so interesting to me and, and, and it was again,
10:48
illuminating. So my biggest advice is for
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those to follow the signs. Often it'll be in our body.
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Our body and mind will be telling us that there's
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something not quite right. Sometimes it's a sinking feeling
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in our gut. Sometimes the the hair on the
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back of our neck stands up or we just have this feel of unease.
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You know, we've gotten so comfortable being uncomfortable
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in certain situations, but I would say don't ignore those
11:19
signs any anymore. If you think there are red flags
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or warning signs that you're experiencing in your body or
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that are coming up in your mind of wow, that really wasn't
11:29
appropriate what that person said to me or to some other
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person in your environment, please pay attention to that.
11:36
That or if you feel like you're not able to really be your true
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self, You know, I often say, you know, you should be your whole
11:43
self at work and at home. You should be an integrated
11:46
person. You shouldn't have to like check
11:48
your personal you at home and then step into your work.
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You like that isn't sustainable and that's not how you're going
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to thrive. Because I truly believe that
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power and leadership comes from an authentic place in ourselves.
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So, so 1st and of all, just really, really raise your
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awareness and pay attention to those assigned in the book
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itself. I use a three-part framework.
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It's a guide people to try, try to help them navigate some of
12:15
those difficult environments. It's called the 3A's Assess ally
12:19
and act. So first you want to assess, get
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real clarity and you want to be objective about your assessment.
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And that's when you can be centered.
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When you when you're centered, then you can really be objective
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in assessing your environment. So that's why Part 1 is so
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important. But really, you know, get, get,
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get clear, document incidents, ask your trusted peers if
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they're observing similar behaviors and then separate kind
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of the objective facts from your emotional reactions because
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oftentimes we do get triggered, we get, we, we are reactive.
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So really I think getting that objective assessment from peers
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as well is really helpful. Secondly, allies, so you know,
12:58
understand who your allies are in the company, who again, that
13:02
personal board of directors, your network, whether they're
13:05
mentors or sponsors, you know, people, your managers, people
13:09
who you can talk to, to again, validate what you're
13:12
experiencing and feeling and, and are they having a similar
13:15
shared experience? Oftentimes HR, you know, there
13:19
are people in HR you can speak to in, in a safe environment.
13:22
Sometimes people share with me they don't feel safe going to HR
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'cause they're afraid that there could be repercussions for them
13:28
when they go to HR and that that's, you know, so that they
13:30
don't again, feel safe to do that.
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So, you know, obviously whatever you feel safe doing in terms of
13:36
getting that assessment is really important and putting all
13:39
that together to decide when you want to act.
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Another thing I really want to say to people is that you have
13:45
options. You always have choice.
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Sometimes it may not feel like that.
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And sometimes in this difficult financial environment, people
13:53
are concerned about, you know, keeping their jobs.
13:55
A lot of people have come up to me and say, well, I really need
13:58
this, you know, this, this, this salary, I really need this
14:02
paycheck. I, I don't feel free to leave.
14:04
And, and that's OK too. You know, I really want to honor
14:07
people's personal situations. However, having said that, there
14:11
is no reason to be treated badly and there's no reason to work in
14:15
an environment that is not serving you and, and really
14:18
aligned with your values. And that can be very damaging.
14:21
One thing I say about difficult work environments is that it's
14:24
OK to work with them as long as it doesn't affect your sense of
14:27
self. If it starts to corrode your
14:29
sense of self, that could be incredibly damaging.
14:31
So, so, so just pay attention to that as well, but decide if and
14:36
when you want to take action. You can also be the change you
14:40
want to see internally, you know, role model good behavior
14:43
and what that looks like and the type of culture you want to work
14:45
in. Talk about that with your
14:47
manager and, and leaders in the organization and then also
14:50
decide maybe when it's time to leave.
14:53
I, I recommend trying to do that from a place when you already
14:56
have a position, because I think that's a, you know, a good
14:59
position of strength to be. It's always easier to to find a
15:02
job when you have a job. But again, don't be afraid to
15:05
take action to make sure that you're taking care of yourself.
15:08
Yeah. And I, I think another one of
15:10
the ideas that you challenge as well is striving for a seat at
15:13
the table and, and being an advocate for for building your
15:17
own. What do you think that looks
15:20
like in in actual practice? Yes, well, first of all, we need
15:25
to stop exhausting ourselves to earn a seat at someone else's
15:28
table. That's like just fundamentally,
15:31
you know, something that I have learned through through many
15:35
years and decades because sometimes, you know, you just
15:37
can't even convince those who aren't aren't seeing your
15:41
brilliance, aren't seeing your potential.
15:43
So what this truly means for me in practice is find your people,
15:49
you know, understand, who sees you, who understands your
15:52
talents and capabilities and who are setting up environments and
15:56
cultures that align with your values.
15:58
So for me in particular, my value set is or humility,
16:03
collaboration, respect, excellence.
16:07
And so when I find people who also share those values, I know
16:10
it and I want to network with them.
16:13
So start now in building that network for yourselves, building
16:18
that personal board, finding your people, and trying to
16:21
cultivate opportunities with that group of individuals.
16:25
It looks different at every stage, but in early careers,
16:29
build those peer groups and your community.
16:32
And then when you get to higher levels of leadership, you get to
16:35
create that culture and and propagate that and amplify that.
16:39
As an entrepreneur, you get to build the tables from scratch
16:42
and decide who you want to be at your board, what investors you
16:46
want to work with, who are the type of employees you want to
16:48
bring into your company. So that looks different at
16:51
different stages, but the most important thing is to do it.
16:54
So as as a woman of colour leading in medicine, biotech and
16:58
venture capital, can you just share some of like the toughest
17:01
leadership moments that you've faced throughout your career?
17:07
Yeah, I think some of the the toughest leadership moments
17:12
were, I guess I didn't realize at the time, but there were
17:17
definitely some moments of whether you call them
17:21
microaggressions or gaslighting, you know, I, I share some of
17:25
this in the book. Sometimes I was shocked by the
17:28
way people spoke to me. And looking back, I'm not
17:34
surprised in that, that that was the reality I faced.
17:39
And I try to have compassion for myself that I had actually those
17:43
experiences. So when people said, well, who
17:47
do you think you are to say this?
17:50
You never listened, you know, if I knew, you know, you were going
17:53
to be involved, I, I, I, I wouldn't have even joined, you
17:57
know, again, just shocking things.
17:59
And at the time I should have said, well, thank you very much.
18:02
I expect your resignation letter in the morning, you know,
18:04
something to that effect. But I didn't.
18:06
I kind of started doubting myself and said, oh, wow, what
18:09
am I doing? That's incorrect.
18:11
I didn't really stand up for myself and many other women and
18:15
people of color share, have shared experiences with me where
18:18
they, you know, either experience that directly or, or
18:22
have overheard that type of language being directed as other
18:26
to other people. And again, it's just something
18:29
that we've I've experienced through the last three decades.
18:32
You know, I, I do continue to hope that that gets better.
18:36
I am a little bit concerned about our current environment in
18:38
terms of kind of those bad behaviors.
18:41
And you know, again, things that seem to be acceptable from my
18:45
perspective. There's never any reason or you
18:49
know, any reason to tolerate bad behavior in our industry.
18:52
We're here to help patients. We're working very hard and
18:56
challenging environments in, in, in, in industry, which is not
18:59
for the faint of heart. We put 150% of our heart, our
19:03
intellect, our hard work into developing really meaningful
19:07
therapies for patients. We need to treat our employees
19:09
well. And again, there's no real
19:12
excuse for for bad behavior. When I started stepping into
19:15
leadership moment leaderships, you know, roles where I was
19:20
running big groups, I or big teams, it was really easy for me
19:24
to take care and stand up for my team.
19:27
So then I started having a lot of courage and managerial and
19:30
leadership courage to say, look, I will not tolerate anyone
19:33
speaking badly to my employees or to members of my team.
19:37
I don't want to have environments that are based on
19:40
fear or that are not safe because I really think that
19:43
shuts people down and doesn't allow them to be creative and
19:46
innovative and doesn't reward them for all their hard work and
19:49
effort. But I often found that it was
19:51
difficult to stand up for myself.
19:53
Yeah, and just on to the biotech CEO sisterhood, which you'd Co
19:58
founded as you mentioned with Julia and Angie.
20:01
I think the way that that space has grown over the past few
20:04
years is just amazing. I was actually fortunate to be
20:07
at JPM when I saw all the all of the pink everyone was wearing.
20:12
Why? Why was that space so essential
20:15
for setting up? And what advice do you have for
20:17
women seeking their own sisterhoods in other fields I've
20:20
seen that you guys have now done?
20:22
Biotech CFO Sisterhood Biotech CHRO Sisterhood.
20:27
So a really growing community, yeah.
20:30
What advice would you have for women seeking their own
20:32
sisterhood in other fields? Yeah, the first amazing insight
20:38
was just how powerful the networking community is for
20:42
helping for #1 transform the way we view ourselves.
20:48
And that's the transformative power of the mirror effect.
20:52
When you walk into rooms where you just feel like you belong,
20:56
you're not questioning, you know, your, your, your place in
21:00
that room. It feels like coming home and
21:03
you really, truly feel safe and comfortable.
21:07
And then that can become your new normal because you're like,
21:10
oh, this is how it feels to not have to prove and strive and
21:14
fight and struggle. I've been where you can just be.
21:19
So if I could bottle up that feeling and put it into a pill
21:23
and take it every day, I would. And I would give it to everyone
21:26
I know, men and women, because it's so empowering to feel a
21:31
safe. So I, I, I just really want to
21:35
amplify that. It's very important to find
21:38
these communities because it helps you internally and, you
21:42
know, ingest that, imbibe it, sink in it and reprogram, you
21:47
know, your, your again, your thought patterns and beliefs so
21:50
that you breakthrough these inner glass ceilings and you
21:52
confront what I call the Fids, fear, insecurity, doubt and
21:55
shame. Let's get rid of the Fids.
21:58
Let's really truly step into our power.
22:00
So that's so important in, in terms of, of really again,
22:03
finding your mirrors, finding those environments.
22:07
Of course we have the CEO sisterhood and the CXO
22:09
sisterhoods, but I advocate for everyone to build your
22:13
communities, whatever that looks like sisterhoods, bro hoods, you
22:17
know, bring them together. You know, I have a South Asian
22:20
group as well that I, I, I love and want to do a lot of advocacy
22:24
work for. And you can just do that today.
22:27
You need to start small. Start with finding your peers,
22:30
your friends, you know, three to five people to bring into your
22:34
network and grow from there and do it with intentionality.
22:38
I think one of the distinguishing factors that I've
22:40
often been told about from members of the sisterhood, they
22:44
said that, you know, maybe we set up a different culture
22:47
because we from day one, we wanted it to be a very
22:50
psychologically safe space. And then we cultivated that
22:54
culture and environment and made sure that we were bringing
22:56
people into the network who truly wanted to support other
22:59
women. You know, we really believed in
23:01
lifting each other up while we're climbing and we wanted to
23:05
find women and leaders who wanted to to be supportive and,
23:09
and all of us would win along the way.
23:11
And what kind of had an abundance mindset and not a very
23:14
a competitive mindset. So just be very intentional
23:17
about what you're trying to create and bring people into
23:20
that networking community who share those intentions and who
23:23
really want to collaborate. And we're and we're very free in
23:27
terms of sharing advice with one another.
23:29
We share resources, we do lessons learned routinely.
23:33
We talk about how to finance in this difficult environment,
23:37
which investors and bankers to work with because they were
23:39
super supportive for us. We share talent benchmarks, you
23:45
know, you know, we, we, we're so free and giving and what we're
23:49
doing, we're contributing and we're givers, not grabbers or
23:52
takers. Yeah.
23:54
And I, I can only assume if you're like a young, young
23:56
person early in your career and you know, you, you see in this
24:00
network that you've built, it's only encouraging for
24:02
particularly females that knowing that there is, you know,
24:05
that community and support network.
24:07
So it must be particularly encouraging for for younger
24:10
people as well as as as everyone.
24:13
It's true. It's something I learned so late
24:15
in my career, and that's why I want people to learn earlier in
24:18
their career. I've been doing a lot of events
24:20
with even graduate students who are coming into their first
24:23
professional job or they've had a professional job and said, oh,
24:26
my goodness, in the corporate world, you know, we like to.
24:30
His sisterhood is a verb, not a noun.
24:32
You know, actively showing up with other people, again, that's
24:36
just powerful. It's amazing what you can get
24:38
done together. Yeah, for sure.
24:41
But I look forward to seeing all of the pink again at JPM, Yes.
24:46
Tuesday, JP Morgan, 4:00 PM, Union Square.
24:50
Be there everyone show up in pink.
24:52
Men and women, yes, show up in pink.
24:55
And we're going to celebrate just all of our greatness, our
24:59
brilliance and how much we're doing together in our industry.
25:03
For sure. How do you like, recommend
25:06
professionals that start cultivating the kind of
25:09
ecosystem with, you know, mentors, advocates, allies that
25:13
supports long term success? Yes, I talk about this in the
25:19
book again, the importance of building a network of community.
25:22
I talk, I reference it to the as a personal board of directors,
25:25
as something that an executive coach taught me when I was at
25:29
Genentech. You know, I was really great.
25:32
I was really fortunate to have a, a few executive coaches in
25:36
the early teens of my career, which did help help me
25:39
understand the importance of finding this group of, of
25:43
supporters. I break it down on the book just
25:46
again, to give a framework, different people you want to
25:49
surround yourself with. I talk about having supporters.
25:53
These are your cheerleaders. It's just really important to
25:56
have people who again see how great you are.
25:58
This can be family members, friends, loved ones, children,
26:03
you know, just people who again just are just, you just need
26:06
some cheerleaders in your squad, you know, on your board and your
26:09
in your network. You need role models, people who
26:12
inspire you to say, oh, I want to be like that person because
26:16
you love how much they care about patients or how
26:19
scientifically rigorous they are, what a great business
26:22
leader they are. You know, you want to have
26:24
inspiring role models to, you know, to, to just inspire and
26:28
aspire to. You want mentors, people who you
26:32
can advise, ask advice to. And importantly and
26:35
distinctively, you want sponsors.
26:38
Sponsors are people who are going to really put your name in
26:43
that, in that hat, like and throw your name in that ring for
26:46
an opportunity, you know, call you up about, hey, have you let
26:49
me network you with this person. They are a mover and shaker and
26:53
you want to know them. You want to you want to have
26:55
sponsors. Sponsors are different from
26:57
mentors. Mentors are people give you a
26:58
lot of advice. They may or may not be a
27:00
sponsor. Sponsors are people who are
27:03
going to lift you up, who are going to promote you, who are
27:05
going to put, you know, again, recommend you for roles.
27:09
That's that's you want a lot of sponsors in your network.
27:13
And then you also want subject matter experts.
27:15
You want people who are, you know, maybe complement your
27:18
skill set. For me, you know, I grew up with
27:20
a lot of scientific and clinical background.
27:22
I spent time in McKinsey, so I had a good business background
27:26
as well. I do not have a great legal
27:28
background. I do not understand legalese.
27:31
So I have some great lawyers in my network that I can call and
27:34
say, hey, can you help me understand this contract?
27:36
Or can you advise me on things I should be watching out for as I
27:40
step into a company or into a certain situation?
27:43
So it's good to just surround yourself.
27:45
And I'm often a subject matter expert for other leaders who
27:49
maybe don't have a scientific and clinical background to say,
27:51
hey, can you, is this a good target?
27:53
Is this a good disease area? What are your thoughts?
27:57
And then you want to have peers. You know, peers are so important
28:00
to to include on your on your personal board network as well.
28:03
So that's a framework. But I say start early, start
28:06
often, start this week. You know, just go out there,
28:09
network and you know, you're going to kiss a lot of frogs
28:12
along the way. You're going to ask people to be
28:14
mentors and sponsors for you. And they may be too busy.
28:17
That's OK. I often have people come to me
28:19
asking for me to be in their network.
28:21
And I obviously have limited bandwidth, but I'm here rooting
28:24
for people. But I, you know, just put
28:25
yourself out there, ask people for help, network, and then
28:28
you'll see people do want to help.
28:30
If they say, hey, great presentation.
28:33
I was really impressed by what you did or how you launch that
28:36
drug or, you know, the financing you did follow up with them and
28:39
say, wonderful, would you like to have lunch?
28:41
Would you like to have dinner? And really cultivate and build
28:45
that relationship over time. Nice.
28:47
Yeah, I've seen that a lot on LinkedIn.
28:49
You really push mentorship and surrounding yourself self with
28:53
mentors from from early on in your career and and just having
28:56
that that that circle you can you can fall back on.
29:01
Yeah, You know, I think one big lesson learned throughout my
29:05
career is you don't have to do it alone.
29:08
I actually thought you did for a long time.
29:11
And, and I, I thought I had to do it alone.
29:13
And now I know I was really suffering silently.
29:18
And I want everyone to know that we're, we're human.
29:22
We're not meant to do this alone, especially the things
29:25
we're trying to do in our industry.
29:27
And you know, when we get into small startups and for
29:29
entrepreneurs and founders, the resilience we need to have is
29:33
so, so high and so demanding. So we do need to to have people
29:38
in our network who are supporting us along our journey.
29:41
Nice. And just on to negotiation.
29:45
I think it's often a tough hurdle, particularly for women
29:48
and underrepresented professionals.
29:51
What are some of the strategies that have worked for you
29:53
throughout your career? I like to say you're negotiating
29:58
all the time whether you know it or not.
30:00
So it is important to say what What is my negotiation style?
30:04
What types of strategies and tactics do I want to have?
30:07
What are my principles of negotiate negotiating?
30:10
I think it's important to find ways to negotiate without
30:12
compromising your integrity where you feel comfortable.
30:16
For me, I, I do always care about what other people think.
30:20
And, you know, I want to treat them respectfully.
30:22
So, but that doesn't mean that I can't be a really strong and
30:25
effective negotiator. Also, sometimes people say,
30:28
well, you're just being too demanding as a negotiator.
30:30
But I see, I feel like I'm doing the same thing that a male, a
30:33
man would do in my similar situation.
30:36
So, you know, you have to kind of again, have confidence in
30:39
what you're doing. As long as I'm treating people
30:41
respectfully and I feel like I'm doing what any other strong,
30:46
powerful leader would do in that situation, I'm going to stay and
30:50
rest in that that space. Some of the strategies that I
30:54
recommend is really doing your homework, you know, knowing your
30:56
audience, knowing what's important to to them and, and
31:00
your who's on the other side of the table for you.
31:03
It's obviously we know what's important to us, but really know
31:05
what's important for them, what's going to make a
31:07
difference for them. Also, you need to know the the
31:10
benchmarks, like what's happening externally to you.
31:12
If you're negotiating a salary, you know what, what are those
31:16
compensation benchmarks? You know, research that market.
31:19
So go in well informed and because once you do and say,
31:21
well, actually, this is market, you know, in terms of these are
31:25
the rates or the salaries or the compensation that metrics that
31:28
I'm talking about. That's really important.
31:30
You want to back it up with data, know where your hard lines
31:34
are, where you're willing to compromise, where you're not.
31:37
You know, I think that's really important.
31:40
And, you know, basically just, you know, try to find those win
31:44
wins. You know, don't accept the first
31:47
offer. You know, start high and then,
31:50
you know, figure out, you know, what you're willing to live
31:52
with. Nice.
31:54
And just a question to, to round us off, if you could go back and
31:57
speak to your younger self, what, what would you go back and
32:00
say? Well, I'd love to quote Mayo
32:04
Angelo. She's the first quote I I have
32:06
in the book where she says you alone are enough.
32:10
You know, I didn't believe that for a long time, was always
32:14
trying to prove myself. People, please get external
32:17
validation. But now I know that it is true.
32:20
And I want everyone to feel that in their body, in their bones
32:24
that, you know, I alone am enough.
32:27
And I really hope people say that to themselves.
32:30
I alone am enough. You are already worthy.
32:33
You don't have to do anything to prove that you belong.
32:37
I think that's something that, again, women and minorities
32:40
really struggle with. Immigrants struggle with this as
32:42
well, always trying to fit in. There's nothing that we have to
32:46
do to prove that we belong and that our difference is our
32:50
power, not our liability. So really sit in that truth.
32:56
And then from there, do your best, work nice, and have fun
33:00
along the way. You know, I think I wish I had
33:02
more fun now. Knowing how you know, it's easy
33:05
to say now you know, you know, you know, looking back at my
33:09
career. But if I could, I've told my
33:11
younger self to just enjoy the journey, take more trips, have
33:14
more fun. That would have been a wonderful
33:16
thing to experience. Nice.
33:18
I love that. Well, look, thanks so much for
33:21
coming on and helping us out with this.
33:22
I think, yeah, I'm looking forward to the the official book
33:26
launch, which I'm sure will be a massive, massive success.
33:29
And obviously the the biotech CEO of Sisterhood that you're
33:32
building again, incredible. And yeah, I think this, the book
33:37
and this this podcast will certainly resonate with a lot of
33:39
people. So thank you again for helping
33:42
us out with this. It was a it was a pleasure.
33:45
It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for the
33:47
opportunity.