Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Dr. Eric Scalise: Equipping Believers And Pastors With Resources, Hope

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Dr. Eric Scalise: Equipping Believers And Pastors With Resources, Hope · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in and thank you so much
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  for praying for us and for sharing the podcast.
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  It's getting out there and it's not me, all glory to God.
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  Do you want to call your attention to a very important book that's coming out in just
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  a week or so and it's called The Care and Council Handbook.
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  It's a quick reference guide of biblical answers for 100 real life issues and it is put
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  out by hope for the heart and we want to bring in Dr. Eric Scalise.
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  These are guests today, President and Chief Strategy Officer of Hope for the Heart and
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  he's currently serving also as a President of LIV Consulting LLC.
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  He's the former Senior VP for the American Association of Christian Counselors and former
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  Department Chair for Counseling Programs at Regent University and we're thankful for
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  his time today.
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  Dr. Scalise, Eric, welcome to World View Matters.
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  Good to see you today.
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  Thank you, David.
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  It sounds like I've lived too many lifetimes.
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  Yeah, you've been around a while but you've got a lot of experience.
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  I think you can share the audience.
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  So right off the top, how did you get connected with Hope for the Heart?
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  I remember listening to Hope in the Night, you know, many, many years ago, what a phenomenal
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  program.
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  So how did you come to be with Hope for the Heart?
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  Yeah.
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  Hope for the Heart was founded by June Hunt, who really is an iconic figure.
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  David, I've been in the people helping space clinically, ministry-wise, academically as
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  a life coach for 45 years now.
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  I like to tell people I started when I was seven, but that wouldn't be true.
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  I hold three licenses in mental health, but I've always had a passion for the church
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  and for equipping everyday Christians to make a difference.
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  And I knew June may be good 10, 11 years.
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  And there was an opportunity to kind of partner with her and engage with her a little bit
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  more on the ministry side of this space.
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  And I just felt like God said, hey, this is your next assignment and I'm joyful to partner
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  with her.
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  I told June, you know, God has used you to mine gold out of the Scriptures for three
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  decades.
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  That's what this book's about.
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  And I said, I think God brought me here to make a little jewelry out of it.
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  Yeah.
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  It is amazing.
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  I like a very much needed book for today, almost every issue imaginable that's tackled
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  in here with answers, biblical answers.
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  And I just want to mention the website, if you guys are not familiar with hope for the
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  heart.org, hope for the heart.org.
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  And my goodness, you've got so much in your background and the work that you've done.
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  Can you share a little bit more about the mental health issue is really important today?
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  I think for a lot of people and because of the problems that our youth have and there's
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  so many variables to that and maybe we can get into that in the podcast.
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  But I know you've done counseling and you've done so much work in this field.
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  Can you share a little bit more?
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  Sure.
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  David, I think COVID was maybe a trigger event.
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  I often say if COVID was the earthquake that shook the world, the mental health issues
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  that followed was the tsunami.
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  And the tsunami is often worse than the original event.
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  And we've literally seen every mental health issue tick up, not just the United States globally.
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  And whether pastors and churches and ministry leaders want to acknowledge it, feel comfortable
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  with it or not, they have to deal with it.
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  And we should bring God's word into the conversation.
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  That's why we're so excited here at Hope for the Heart to see the release of this book
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  because it does that.
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  And I'm a big believer that it doesn't necessarily take someone with lots of letters past their
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  name or a degree to make a difference.
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  The church, capital C, can and needs to be engaged in helping people find Christ, find biblical
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  solutions and come alongside.
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  I mean, that's what a paraclete is.
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  That's what the meaning of the Holy Spirit means is to come alongside, to walk with someone.
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  And I think a resource like this hopefully accomplishes that mission.
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  Absolutely.
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  I mean, just the basic idea that's hard to apply, but loving God and loving your neighbor.
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  Why do you think the church, I don't want to say the church got off track, but shouldn't
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  the church be the place where people can go for biblical answers for biblical counseling?
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  I mean, you and many, many, many others have taken up that mantle, but shouldn't the
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  church be a place where people can go?
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  Why are they not equipped?
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  Well, 100%.
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  I think there are a couple of reasons.
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  One, you use the word like psychology, people often think, oh, you're talking about Freud
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  or that weird stuff.
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  And they think that none of that is good.
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  None of that has merit or meaning, which is not true.
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  There are a lot of discoveries in the sciences, physics, chemistry that were done not necessarily
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  by God fearing people.
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  We just discovered a little bit about God's creation.
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  It's no different when we're talking about behavior and emotion, although people who don't
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  have God's word have no idea what to do with it.
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  And so it's important to bring that in.
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  That's one, two, I think there's been a bit of a stigmatization still about Christians
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  and people of faith wrestling.
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  People think I should be able to manage my thoughts or my feelings.
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  And if I feel a little worried, a little angry, little depressed, it becomes a faith issue.
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  And it's what's wrong with your faith.
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  And I wish it was that simple, but it's not.
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  And so part of it is educating pastors and ministry leaders that this is the purview
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  of the church.
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  There are people sitting in those pews every Sunday that need help.
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  And part of the ministry and the great commission is to attend to those that God brings into
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  your orbit.
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  So I wasn't planning on asking this, but we're kind of going down this road when we talk
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  about the church.
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  A lot of pastors, I think, deal with a lot of issues themselves.
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  And maybe they aren't asking for help, or maybe they're embarrassed to ask for help.
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  And so if they don't feel equipped, counsels someone else dealing with similar problems,
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  your thoughts on that?
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  All right.
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  So you have pastors background, right?
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  Yes.
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  So when you think about your call to the ministry, David, did you feel primarily, and you think
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  about your call to counsel people, or was it to teach and to preach, teaching to maybe
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  to disciples?
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  So there are very few pastors I've met who don't feel a similar sense of their calling.
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  God brought me here to preach and teach his word.
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  And if you're honest, if they're honest about it, they go, I wasn't even trained in counseling.
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  I don't even like it.
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  But here's what the research says, 75% of people of faith when they're in crisis, guess who
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  they want to talk to first?
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  Pastor.
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  The pastor doesn't feel called, doesn't feel equipped, doesn't feel comfortable, and
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  maybe not even like it, then what do you do with it?
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  And I can't tell you any times I've had a conversation with the pastor, I say, listen
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  pastor, trust me, there are people in your congregation who absolutely feel called to
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  walk alongside the wounded, the broken, the hurting, those who are just confused with
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  questions, equip them, give them the tools and resources, and they can help you pastor
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  the flock and fulfill their calling while you're fulfilling yours.
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  And a book like this, a resource like this is designed just for that to quit people
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  who do feel called to come alongside and to hopefully provide good answers and good
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  resources to the person who may be struggling him or herself.
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  So I don't have the book in hand because it's coming out in about a week or so, September
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  9, and people can pre-order on Amazon or wherever you get your books.
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  Can you give us a couple ideas of a handful of the topics you would, I mean there's, there's
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  a hundred, right?
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  Did I say that?
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  Did I read that somewhere?
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  Yes, yes.
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  What are the big ones?
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  Well, anxiety, anger, depression, suicide, bullying, marriage, parenting, and then there's
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  things like worry, hope, forgiveness.
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  So they're not all like these serious mental health issues, there's plenty in there, domestic
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  violence, childhood sexual abuse, but then there are things like everyone may wrestle with
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  fear from time to time or a little bit of worry or a little bit of anger.
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  And so it's topics in issues that are relevant to life.
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  Some of them are greater life challenges, some less so, so it really covers the gamut
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  of what it means to have two feet on this side of eternity in any given point.
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  So out of the description that I received, it says millions of Christians go to church,
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  all group, and have a devotional life, but they just don't know how to practically
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  apply the Bible to the struggles they face.
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  Now they might have a surface level understanding of what Scripture says, but it's a difference
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  from understanding what the Bible teaches to, applying it when you need it, and it sounds
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  like this book is a great handbook to help people along those lines.
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  Would that be right?
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  Absolutely.
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  One of our sort of tag lines here at Hope for the Heart, David, is biblical hope and
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  practical help, a little bit tongue and cheek, but June with smile and say her middle name
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  is practical.
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  And so these chapters in this book are a fraction of a much larger resource.
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  So one of the topics may be anxiety.
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  Well we have an entire 100 page book on that that goes way deeper.
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  This is to give you like enough to deal with, but it's not just Scripture.
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  It is biblical principles, but you're exactly right.
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  What do I do with it?
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  How do I do it?
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  What's the next step?
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  Because it's not only just praying, maybe it's like, hey, you need to talk to someone.
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  Maybe you need to sleep a little bit better.
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  Maybe you need to go ask someone to forgive you.
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  There are very practical steps as well as the biblical principles that go with those
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  practical steps.
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  So in just a minute or two, we're going to dig into some specifics.
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  One of them, I like one of the questions on mid-life crisis, but there's some very specific
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  things that the book deals with.
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  But I want to give you an opportunity over at Hope for the Heart.org.
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  There's books, courses, media, training, and events.
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  Is there anything specific you would like to highlight, Eric?
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  Well, we do.
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  We see part of our mission is to equip the body of Christ, both those who need help directly
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  because they are struggling and wrestling with an issue, as well as those who feel
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  called to help those individuals.
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  So we have designed a lot of training courses.
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  We have an annual conference that grows every day, matter of fact.
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  We did a one-day symposium that we have every June.
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  It's titled It's Called to Care.
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  This year it was on mental health in the church.
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  So we're stepping into a lane that will people be okay with that?
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  Well, we had 1200 people register and participate in that event.
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  It tells me yes, the church is ready, needs to deal with that.
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  So we talk about providing a complete system of care.
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  This book and the keys for living that they're based on is a component of that system of
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  care.
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  But we have other things.
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  You mentioned June's Hope in the Night Radio broadcasts.
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  We have a wonderful podcast called Hope Talks where people tell their hope stories.
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  We have events.
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  We have training.
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  So we're trying to think of all the pieces that might make a difference and help people.
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  Well, I've got a list of people who have endorsed the book, Gary Wilkerson, Dr. Robert
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  Jeffress.
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  We've had Nick Voyachich on this podcast.
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  Also, I think I saw Pastor Jack Hibbs.
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  We've had him on this podcast as well.
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  Sheila Walsh, a lot of them.
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  And Sheila said, if you've ever struggled with how to apply God's Word to real life problems,
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  this book is for you.
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  Jane Arjun Hunt and the Hope for the Heart team have created a truly life-giving resource
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  that points people to the hope found in Christ.
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  And that is the Care and Council Handbook.
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  Eric, we're going to take a brief pause.
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  We'll be right back friends on World View Matters.
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  Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily.
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  World News Biblically Understood.
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  Stay informed at Harbinger's Daily.com.
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  So Dr. Eric Scalise is our guest today author, professor, counselor, therapist, president
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  and chief strategy officer at Hope for the Heart.
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  So let's get into some specifics now.
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  I know the book is a lot about relationships, anxieties, a huge issue that affects our relationships.
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  But I want to jump to one about the midlife crisis because I think people have a misunderstanding
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  of what that might look like or feel like.
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  So how does God speak to an individual that might be struggling with something midlife
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  like that?
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  A lot of times people get to that season in life and, gosh, I like to look in the mirror
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  and think I'm still in that season, maybe not.
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  People begin to analyze and evaluate, have I made a difference as my life counted?
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  Have the things I've engaged in, whether it's been in a career or a ministry or in my loved
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  ones and family?
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  Have I moved the needle?
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  That's a pretty common thing.
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  And for people who wrestle with that issue, they do sometimes struggle.
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  Have I made a difference?
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  Is there a mission drift?
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  A lot of times for people of faith, they may have a sense of calling in purpose, but maybe
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  they've drifted from it.
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  And they're in a little bit of crisis and are trying to reevaluate and realign themselves
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  maybe with God's call.
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  And so he can produce some anxious thoughts.
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  It can actually sometimes lead to some less than healthy behaviors and choices as people
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  try to compensate or overcompensate for being a little bit in crisis.
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  With the aging of America in particular, I think it's a common thing that you're going
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  to see people who wrestle and have to work through some of it.
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  It's a transitory transition period in a person's life.
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  What about examples of God healing lives?
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  I'm sure you have many that you can think of.
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  God's word is transforming and truth is truth.
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  And the scripture says, his truth will set people free.
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  And as a counselor, I would often try to speak truth into someone's life.
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  But I'm also a believer in the priesthood of the believer.
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  And sometimes it's our own ears that need to hear our own voice speaking truth over
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  us.
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  And if we can arm people with biblical principles and God's truth that they can start speaking
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  it over themselves as well and meditating on that truth, it can be life changing.
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  There has been a lot of research over the years now on the whole impact of faith and physical,
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  emotional, mental health, and relational well-being.
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  Dr. Harold Koneg out of Duke University is probably one of the pioneer researchers.
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  All the research supports the notion that faith is almost like the secret sauce.
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  The secular world discounts it, doesn't often want to deal with it.
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  But the science, the research would say it is a difference maker.
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  And so we have to get people what they need in terms of biblical truth.
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  So what about back to the church now, because there's so many things that we could work
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  on as the body of Christ in America?
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  What in general, I know you can sum this up, what things are, is the church doing well
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  as far as addressing issues with people that are hurting?
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  And what does the church need to work on?
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  What issues are they not so good at?
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  I think at least at some level, more pastors are attuned that they have to address some
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  of these issues that are going on in their congregations, that's good.
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  I don't know if they always are comfortable with it or have the tools or know how so.
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  Part of our mission is to equip even pastors like, how do we have conversations about tough topics in life?
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  And so it's encouraging them to step in and engage at that level.
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  Because just as a counselor, David, this is the truth.
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  The body of Christ is the only army I know of that shoots its own wounded.
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  And sometimes we bury them before they die and it should never be so.
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  We have to be at least part of the mission of the church should be as a healing location.
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  But I tell pastors like, you start speaking to some of this stuff
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  and it gets word out in your community.
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  You're going to attract people that come because they're hurting and it's not always pretty.
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  So you have to prepare and train your congregation to say, we might have to change some diapers here.
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  And that's okay. It's the mission of the church.
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  This might not be in the book.
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  And again, friends, the book is called The Care and Council Handbook.
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  But I'm wondering about the younger generation.
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  You mentioned COVID and what happened there.
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  People kind of isolated and so many other issues relying on video and technology
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  instead of human relationships.
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  Way before that though, Eric, I think the younger generation,
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  I think I mentioned before we got on the podcast.
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  You and I grew up at a time where there was no internet.
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  And we can remember those days where we knew what go outside and play meant.
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  But today's youth have a very different upbringing, different challenges.
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  How has that changed as far as even your own work?
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  It's interesting to follow some of the research on technology and in really
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  addiction to this thing, right?
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  We all have one of the, and getting off our technology.
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  COVID kind of did this because younger children,
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  developmentally and through teenagers, they learned some of their social skills
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  and relational bonding through face-to-face relationships.
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  And we weren't congregating.
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  I've heard some people say we've lost an entire generation of young people.
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  Technology sort of does that.
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  I often say we are the most technologically connected society ever,
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  but the most relationally disconnected.
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  And young people fight loneliness and isolation more than almost any other generation now,
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  which is why we see depression and suicide.
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  Suicide is the second leading cause of death among our young people after accidents.
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  And I think some of it is because they're not connected.
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  We were created in relationship through relationship and for relationship.
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  And the enemy of our soul will do everything he can to isolate us.
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  So we don't feel connected.
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  We don't feel loved.
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  We don't feel supported.
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  And then it's a got you moment for people and too many of our young people
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  are falling through the cracks because of it.
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  Wow.
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  Wow.
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  You know what's funny in that response you just gave?
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  I had a flashback.
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  This was, it may have been about a month ago, maybe a couple of weeks ago,
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  I was driving home after a day of filming a podcast.
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  And I heard you on Janet Parshall's in the marketplace.
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  You said, I remember you said that because it triggered,
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  we are the most technologically connected.
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  But explain that again how we are disconnected in other ways.
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  We are, we are the most technologically connected, right?
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  Cell phones, but we are the most relationally disconnected.
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  Relationally disconnected.
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  Yeah.
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  And isolation in my opinion is the enemy's number one strategy to take
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  and leaders would do good to pay attention to that dynamic.
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  You know, it's interesting in, in, I think, first Peter five,
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  Peter and Monash's, he says, be wary of your adversary, the devil,
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  who proules around looking for someone to devour.
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  And the Lord, I was meditating on it.
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  God wouldn't let me off that scripture.
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  And he said, there's a word in there that you're missing.
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  Until he finally said, he proules around looking for some one.
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  He rarely looks for the many.
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  He's a coward.
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  But he will look for the one who's isolated and cut off from support,
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  from his word, from fellowship.
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  And because it's, it's easier to take someone down.
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  Interesting.
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  He masquerades as an angel of light.
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  And by the way, in that passage, he proules around like a roaring lion.
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  He's not a roaring lion.
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  Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah,
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  Satan, not even close.
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  But so he, he puts out a bit bold front.
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  So what about a lot of people struggling with maybe world news?
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  We are, and again, because of the iPhone, we find out what's happening around the world in a second.
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  And we were not meant to.
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  I don't think it's healthy to, to try to keep up with everything and know what's going on.
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  So this produces feelings of being overwhelmed.
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  And maybe fearful of the future.
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  Can you speak to that for a moment?
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  If you don't have the full council of God and the flip of all the things,
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  Jesus said, what, in this world, there will, not might,
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  there will be tribulation, but be of good cheer.
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  I've overcome the world, you know, and he gives a piece that the world can't give.
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  And so when we hear about scary things and wars and natural disasters and persecution
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  of other believers, and we have nothing to bring to bear that balances it with God's word,
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  that we have faith we can rely on in the moment to calm our spirit or our anxious heart.
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  Yeah, it's going to be difficult.
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  And so it's all balanced, right?
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  If you're going to dive deep into all the world's troubles,
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  are you diving deep into the word of God to bring balance into your overall world view?
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  So June Hunt wrote the forward to the book, the Karen Council Handbook.
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  Again, friends, it's going to be out in a week or so available on Amazon, wherever you get good
• 24:38
  books. Is there a particular topic or a struggle that people have had that you have personally
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  enjoyed helping walk a Christian through? Is there something?
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  In other words, are there a few things that you are very glad that the book addresses?
• 24:55
  Yeah, just as an aside, the topics of anger, anxiety, depression, fear, hope are most sought after
• 25:06
  topics. I particularly love talking with people about self-identity and having a sense of God's
• 25:14
  God worth. If people can see how God sees them and June wrote a book called Seeing Yourself
• 25:20
  through God's eyes. And by the way, this book is the genesis of June's lifetime work on the
• 25:26
  keys for living library that all these topics, these hundred topics are derived from. So not only
• 25:32
  did she write the forward, but she is the God gave her this model of helping people. But I love
• 25:38
  talking to people about if you can see yourself as God sees you, it's a difference maker.
• 25:45
  Oh, you know, you can just imagine how it changes a person's life if they could truly see
• 25:52
  how God sees us. But we are our own worst critics. Self-worth is a big issue. I'm glad you brought
• 25:58
  that up. So this book, I'm amazed. It's a massive volume. It sounds like it's not something you
• 26:03
  would sit down and read in one sitting, but it is a resource guide, a reference guide that you
• 26:08
  can go to or if you want to help somebody, is that that's correct, isn't it?
• 26:13
  Yeah, it's a great thing to have on your shelf for your desk. You pull it out when you need it.
• 26:18
  And with a hundred topics, probably you're going to need it.
• 26:21
  Yeah. Well, we're so thankful for your time today, your expertise. Again,
• 26:25
  want to send people to hope for the heart.org and get the book. It's available. And pastors,
• 26:31
  I would really think would benefit from this book, especially busy pastors that maybe haven't
• 26:39
  been able to help as many people as they'd like for the reasons we already touched on earlier.
• 26:43
  Any closing thoughts in the last minute, Eric?
• 26:46
  I just appreciate the opportunity to kind of get the message out and thank you for the time,
• 26:53
  David. It just fulfills the mission to get the Word of God into people's hands and let it change
• 27:03
  people's thinking and their heart and their lives in Jesus' name.
• 27:08
  The big word is hope. Hope for the heart. Hope our hope in Christ. My goodness, I don't know
• 27:15
  how unbelievers, how non-Christians do it. You know, this life is all there is to a lot of people
• 27:21
  and they don't have assurance of anything beyond this life. No assurance of salvation.
• 27:26
  We're so thankful for Christ and books like this, a great help. Eric, thank you again for your
• 27:31
  time. God bless your brother. Thank you. All right, friends. I hope you found this very, very helpful.
• 27:37
  Again, you can get the Karen Council handbook on Amazon and other places. So, friends, keep sharing
• 27:43
  the podcast. We appreciate you so much. God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about
• 27:48
  things that matter.