Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Women in Brewing

Transcript

Women in Brewing · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
0:07
Speaker 1: Never told your production of I Heart Radio. Yes, and
0:19
Speaker 1: today we are finally tackling an episode topic we have
0:24
Speaker 1: been wanting to do for a while now and so
0:27
Speaker 1: excited to bring on an expert in the field who
0:30
Speaker 1: has been all up in the world of brewing. Oh. Yes,
0:33
Speaker 1: we love beer and she's been there for a long time.
0:36
Speaker 1: Welcome Jim, thank you, Thank you both for having me.
0:40
Speaker 1: I'm super excited to be here. I've listened to this
0:42
Speaker 1: podcast since way back in the day, so this is
0:45
Speaker 1: like kind of surreal to actually be on it. Yes. Yes,
0:53
Speaker 1: we're very excited to have you. I know I've been
0:57
Speaker 1: talking about this for so long, Like Annie the perfect
1:00
Speaker 1: person to talk about beer because we love we love beer.
1:04
Speaker 1: We have a happy Hour. We featured a beer that
1:06
Speaker 1: we will talk about soon that you helped creating, and
1:08
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be awesome.
1:11
Speaker 1: But before we can get all into that, will you
1:13
Speaker 1: introduce yourself for our listeners? Yes, definitely so so. I
1:17
Speaker 1: am Jen Blair and I am jokingly not jokingly described
1:22
Speaker 1: myself as being all beer all the time. Um, I
1:26
Speaker 1: am an Advanced ciserone, so that is the the equivalent
1:30
Speaker 1: um cisserone is the equivalent to Smalley A for the
1:33
Speaker 1: wine world. I actually took my Master sister in exam
1:37
Speaker 1: last month and I am expecting my results any day now.
1:42
Speaker 1: I'm expecting to take it again because specifically speaking, most
1:46
Speaker 1: people don't pass on their first time. But that is
1:48
Speaker 1: the equivalent to Master Salmollier for wine. I'm also a
1:54
Speaker 1: National b j CP judge, So b j CP is
1:57
Speaker 1: Beer Judge Certification Program. Um. I been a National b
2:01
Speaker 1: j c P judge for a couple of years now,
2:03
Speaker 1: and I'm working also on getting that Master b j
2:07
Speaker 1: c P designation. Hopefully in two I'll be able to
2:11
Speaker 1: make that happen. Uh. So, you know, I do a
2:14
Speaker 1: lot with within the brewing industry. I've jokingly been referred
2:19
Speaker 1: to as a Swiss army knife with the kind of
2:22
Speaker 1: the different skill sets that I brought and that I've
2:24
Speaker 1: picked up since I've been in the beer industry. But
2:26
Speaker 1: really the core of what I do is talking to
2:31
Speaker 1: people about beer, educating people about beer, making sure that
2:34
Speaker 1: they understand that beer is accessible to them. Yes, I
2:38
Speaker 1: love that, and uh, we've got to sit together for
2:40
Speaker 1: a little while not too long ago, to talk about, Yeah,
2:44
Speaker 1: the vast amount of experience that you've had in the
2:46
Speaker 1: beer world and just your history is amazing, and that
2:49
Speaker 1: that you've really pursued it to where you've gotten to
2:53
Speaker 1: is an amazing because we don't see many women who
2:56
Speaker 1: even feel like they can't get to this point and
2:58
Speaker 1: get to the point that you're at and really strive
3:01
Speaker 1: to do this in such a really male dominated field.
3:04
Speaker 1: But we'll get into that in a minute. And yeah,
3:06
Speaker 1: it makes me miss beer a lot being in the
3:08
Speaker 1: industry and all I did was serve and kind of
3:10
Speaker 1: learned very little about the beer. Started studying for this
3:13
Speaker 1: is a road and I was like, oh my god,
3:15
Speaker 1: what is this because we had like textbook on textbook
3:17
Speaker 1: a lot. We need to talk about the hops and
3:19
Speaker 1: the barley. I'm like, I feel like, yeah, definitely, like
3:24
Speaker 1: you need to go to school for this and that's
3:26
Speaker 1: kind of the way you're doing it. Um, But before
3:29
Speaker 1: we start that, how did you get into the brewing
3:31
Speaker 1: in beer industry? You know, I got I'm not alone
3:35
Speaker 1: in this. I've actually found a few people who got
3:37
Speaker 1: into the beer industry in sort of a similar way.
3:40
Speaker 1: But before I was in the beer industry, I actually
3:42
Speaker 1: worked as an attorney and it did not really enjoy
3:45
Speaker 1: it all that that much. It turns out that, um
3:47
Speaker 1: it's not like what you see on TV, and not
3:51
Speaker 1: everybody yeah, not everybody gets to, you know, go work
3:55
Speaker 1: for a nonprofit. So I wasn't really very happy in
3:59
Speaker 1: the legal industry. I had been homebrewing for a few years,
4:03
Speaker 1: and like everyone who starts homebrewing, if you've ever been
4:05
Speaker 1: around a new homebrewer, they able homebrew for a few
4:08
Speaker 1: months and be like, you know what, I'm going to
4:09
Speaker 1: open a brewery like this is my my neighbors like
4:12
Speaker 1: my beer, my friends like my beer. Um, so this
4:15
Speaker 1: is a viable business option for me. So I, you know,
4:19
Speaker 1: from homebrewing, knew that I was really interested in brewing
4:23
Speaker 1: beer and also learning more about beer, and knew that
4:27
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to be very easy for me to
4:29
Speaker 1: make a lateral move into a new industry, particularly coming
4:34
Speaker 1: from an industry that is um known for that. Then
4:39
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't true for very many people in
4:42
Speaker 1: the legal industry, but a lot of people see that
4:44
Speaker 1: as this is someplace where you make a ton of
4:46
Speaker 1: money and you know you're very successful all the time,
4:49
Speaker 1: and that's really just not the reality. Um, so I
4:51
Speaker 1: knew I was going to be running into some barriers
4:52
Speaker 1: from people who, you know, think that, Okay, maybe you
4:56
Speaker 1: want to do this for now, because I don't know
4:58
Speaker 1: if you all know this, but there's not a ton
5:00
Speaker 1: of money for people in the brewing industry. But yeah,
5:04
Speaker 1: that's when I started down the path of pursuing this
5:07
Speaker 1: our own certifications, starting beer judging. I started a beer
5:11
Speaker 1: blog back when people had beer blogs all kind of
5:14
Speaker 1: a ways to show that I was committed to learning
5:19
Speaker 1: what I could about being in this industry and was
5:23
Speaker 1: was actually starting to get a little frustrated because the
5:26
Speaker 1: jobs I was seeing that were available in the brewing
5:28
Speaker 1: industry weren't necessarily jobs I wanted to do. Uh. So,
5:32
Speaker 1: you know, finally I sat down and just wrote out
5:34
Speaker 1: a job description for myself, what is it that I
5:37
Speaker 1: would like to do, because up until that point, I
5:39
Speaker 1: had really just been defining what I didn't want to do.
5:43
Speaker 1: And within a couple of months of sitting down and
5:46
Speaker 1: really articulating where I was interested in going in the
5:50
Speaker 1: in the brewing industry, I saw a job posting for
5:54
Speaker 1: an executive director for the North American Craft Monsters Guild.
5:58
Speaker 1: I thought that there was no way that I would
6:00
Speaker 1: get hired for it. I almost didn't apply, and I
6:03
Speaker 1: did apply and I did get higher and so I
6:09
Speaker 1: joined that, as you know, on the supply side as
6:12
Speaker 1: the first executive director of the Craft Monsters Guild. And
6:16
Speaker 1: from there really just continue to pursue beer sensory beer education,
6:21
Speaker 1: starting to do more trainings. Uh. You know, people consumers
6:25
Speaker 1: really want to learn about beer, and it's it's incredibly
6:29
Speaker 1: interesting no matter what you're you know, no matter where
6:31
Speaker 1: your interests lie, there is something you can learn in
6:34
Speaker 1: beer history that's going to deepen your knowledge of whatever
6:38
Speaker 1: your field is that you're interested in. So from there
6:41
Speaker 1: I moved into working in breweries and more of an
6:45
Speaker 1: educator role um and now I am building a few
6:51
Speaker 1: different projects in terms of continuing to make beer accessible
6:57
Speaker 1: to everyone. And yeah, I think your key point of
7:02
Speaker 1: being making it accessible, that's one of the big things
7:04
Speaker 1: that we do talk a lot about about who who
7:07
Speaker 1: is it made for, who is it geared towards, and
7:09
Speaker 1: how is the ads going and who actually is a
7:11
Speaker 1: part of this industry. And you and I talked again
7:14
Speaker 1: because things have been happening in the industry. Our audience
7:18
Speaker 1: knows because we have been talking about it, the me
7:20
Speaker 1: too movements that's been happening. We even had episodes about
7:23
Speaker 1: how the sexist idea that men drink beer, women drink wine,
7:26
Speaker 1: men eat me, women drink eat salads, like that type
7:29
Speaker 1: of narrative, which is really damaging and unfair for any
7:33
Speaker 1: gender saying that in any way. And it's always shocking
7:38
Speaker 1: to me to know the history of things, and we've
7:40
Speaker 1: talked about it before, like the history of beer is
7:41
Speaker 1: it was started by women. They were the ones that
7:44
Speaker 1: were making the beer. They were the ones that had
7:46
Speaker 1: the market, and they did it for many other reasons
7:49
Speaker 1: like saving grains and such and all that, and then
7:52
Speaker 1: we come to the point of maybe not completely historically
7:55
Speaker 1: in context, but yeah, witchcraft was a part of this
7:58
Speaker 1: uh industry as well, that even some who men became
8:02
Speaker 1: competitive and realizing damn, there's some money in this and
8:05
Speaker 1: maybe accusing some of the l wives of being witches
8:08
Speaker 1: so they can kick out the competition. That's a whole
8:11
Speaker 1: other conversation in itself. But when we look at the
8:15
Speaker 1: numbers and when we talk about who's involved and yet
8:17
Speaker 1: who is allowed to be involved. Accessibility? Is that key point?
8:21
Speaker 1: Why do you think this is important and why do
8:23
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that comes back up again again? Yeah,
8:26
Speaker 1: you know, it's absolutely important because for you know, for me,
8:30
Speaker 1: I want to be in the industry and I have
8:34
Speaker 1: a valuable contribution to make, and you know, so does
8:37
Speaker 1: so does anybody who wants to be in the industry.
8:41
Speaker 1: And it's it's just so important. You know, with craft
8:45
Speaker 1: beer specifically, there was the Sam cal Gione quote about
8:50
Speaker 1: you know, craft beer is asked free and it's like,
8:55
Speaker 1: how many women did you ask? Like what was your
8:57
Speaker 1: sample size? For? You know, we're getting this information, um,
9:01
Speaker 1: And so for a long time, it was very much
9:05
Speaker 1: this we're all good guys, beers. Fun. Beer is just
9:08
Speaker 1: supposed to be fun, and if you are having an
9:12
Speaker 1: issue with it, that's you issue. That's not something with
9:15
Speaker 1: this industry, because in this industry, we're all about fun
9:19
Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's very toxic and that has
9:22
Speaker 1: really permeated the industry. And I've sortunately spoken with men
9:27
Speaker 1: who have said, well, gosh, I've seen some things happen,
9:30
Speaker 1: but I didn't know it was this bad. And it's
9:33
Speaker 1: like yes you did. And now now it's just very
9:35
Speaker 1: difficult to ignore or to pretend like you didn't see that.
9:39
Speaker 1: And if you've ever told a woman server, you know, hey,
9:43
Speaker 1: you handled that really well, you probably could have stepped
9:46
Speaker 1: in right. And um, it's it's just so important that again,
9:53
Speaker 1: anyone who wants access understands that they have access. And
9:57
Speaker 1: it's um and that's not always the case, you know,
10:00
Speaker 1: And there's again going back to the craft beer industry,
10:03
Speaker 1: is we're all just having fun. This is all just
10:05
Speaker 1: a fun group of people for who though, you know who?
10:09
Speaker 1: Who is that a fun industry for? And who is
10:13
Speaker 1: allowed to have fun? Who's allowed to even be in
10:17
Speaker 1: the room and at the table. And it can be exhausting.
10:22
Speaker 1: I mean there have been times when I've said I'm
10:24
Speaker 1: not going to do you know, this this beer industry thing,
10:29
Speaker 1: because I don't feel like fighting. I don't feel like
10:31
Speaker 1: showing up and having to really prove that not only
10:35
Speaker 1: do I know what I'm talking about, I probably know
10:37
Speaker 1: more than what anybody else in the room knows, right,
10:41
Speaker 1: And you know, and having just those assumptions made that
10:44
Speaker 1: I'm there as someone's wife or um, I'm you know,
10:48
Speaker 1: I got into it because that's what boys like. And
10:50
Speaker 1: you know, there's just that whole, the whole thing, and
10:53
Speaker 1: that's that's not the case. That's not the case for
10:56
Speaker 1: so many people. And to just be a allowed to
11:01
Speaker 1: feel welcome and you know, be allowed to exist in
11:06
Speaker 1: the space is something that is not available to so
11:10
Speaker 1: many people. And you know, there there are a thousand
11:13
Speaker 1: reasons why. And I know that you all address topics
11:15
Speaker 1: like this on your podcast all the time. Um, so
11:19
Speaker 1: it's important to have those voices to say, you don't
11:22
Speaker 1: listen to the rest of them. I'm telling you that
11:24
Speaker 1: you have access and that you are welcome, and if
11:28
Speaker 1: somebody is making you feel unwelcome, then you know, let's
11:32
Speaker 1: let's explore why that is. You know, let's have those
11:35
Speaker 1: uncomfortable conversations as an industry and be willing to move
11:39
Speaker 1: forward from it, right, And yeah, I love that statement.
11:42
Speaker 1: Just you have the right to exist, which should be simple.
11:45
Speaker 1: It really should just be like clearly easily done, but
11:49
Speaker 1: it's not. Unfortunately, and especially if you're someone of the
11:52
Speaker 1: marginalized community, that there's more questions and yeah, there's this
11:56
Speaker 1: expectation that you're going to take what is this out
11:58
Speaker 1: to you just because this environment is supposed to be
12:02
Speaker 1: uh small business, fun startup company that allows for abuse.
12:06
Speaker 1: I guess like it's kind of like you shouldn't have
12:08
Speaker 1: oversea like no motion to be able to oversee whether
12:11
Speaker 1: or not you are a good company a good person,
12:15
Speaker 1: Like why is this even a conversation? As if we
12:18
Speaker 1: have to clarify why? And then bringing it out means
12:21
Speaker 1: y'all are being to pc or over overly sensitive, which
12:25
Speaker 1: is of course our favorite comments right on here. Um
12:29
Speaker 1: And I found interesting down right, I think you're just
12:32
Speaker 1: being emotional, calm down. And you know, I was founded
12:37
Speaker 1: interesting because yeah, even though they want to say this
12:39
Speaker 1: is just a fun we're just doing our hobbies turning
12:42
Speaker 1: into a job. Great, but they want to be taken
12:44
Speaker 1: seriously by businesses and industries and want to eventually become
12:48
Speaker 1: the company that does make millions of dollars or be
12:51
Speaker 1: the next big brewery or winning all the awards as
12:55
Speaker 1: a business for them when it comes to the money
12:58
Speaker 1: and the story. And I find that interesting that as
13:01
Speaker 1: I was researching, like we've got some newer numbers as
13:04
Speaker 1: of September showing ownership, and that they are like, you
13:08
Speaker 1: know that at least sev of the companies of the brewers,
13:12
Speaker 1: the owners are men, like, that's the number. However, when
13:15
Speaker 1: they looked even further, like, actually, it might be even
13:18
Speaker 1: less than that, and that women mayme may makeup of
13:22
Speaker 1: I don't know two of the owners. So that's a
13:26
Speaker 1: really large number. And the fact that the I think
13:30
Speaker 1: he's the chief financial advisor for the Beer Association was like, well,
13:34
Speaker 1: our numbers may have been inflated because when we did
13:36
Speaker 1: send out these little random forms, it was only to
13:39
Speaker 1: a small portion of people, and the people who are
13:41
Speaker 1: most likely sending them back were women, right. And you know,
13:47
Speaker 1: another interesting way to parts that out is because I've
13:51
Speaker 1: I've seen the Brewers Association and other industry people say,
13:55
Speaker 1: you know, they look at these numbers, is growing or
13:57
Speaker 1: look at this number. And another further parsing of that
14:03
Speaker 1: is how many of the owners who are women are
14:06
Speaker 1: co owners with their spouses. And that's and I don't
14:09
Speaker 1: say that to to imply that there's absolutely anything wrong
14:12
Speaker 1: with that, because there's not, but it's you know, I
14:15
Speaker 1: guess you might have two percent of women, but if
14:17
Speaker 1: you're looking at breweries that are solely owned by women
14:21
Speaker 1: and not co owned with the spouses, that number gets
14:25
Speaker 1: even smaller. Right, we have been trying to feature it
14:41
Speaker 1: as many beers as we could that are female owned.
14:45
Speaker 1: We meant women owned or at least like partially owned
14:48
Speaker 1: or involved with Like you have a female brewer, you
14:50
Speaker 1: have a woman brewer. Wonderful, let's bring Herberia. And you're
14:53
Speaker 1: like trying to find that and it's really hard. It is.
14:56
Speaker 1: That doesn't include talking about trying to get it, like
14:58
Speaker 1: different states getting those beers, because that's impossible in itself,
15:02
Speaker 1: but even still trying to find those names. It's kind
15:04
Speaker 1: of like, wow, because we may got we may have
15:07
Speaker 1: gotten some information one month, two months later, they're not there,
15:11
Speaker 1: like I do us so many times because that environment
15:14
Speaker 1: was so toxic. They couldn't they couldn't last there. They
15:17
Speaker 1: weren't a looted to exist there, and so they were
15:18
Speaker 1: pushed out essentially, And I was like, damn it, what
15:22
Speaker 1: is wrong with this industry? Like what is happening? And
15:27
Speaker 1: what can we do? What? Like, what what is happening? Jen?
15:30
Speaker 1: What's happening? Sure? Well, you know, so this back in May,
15:37
Speaker 1: and I believe that you mentioned that you all have
15:39
Speaker 1: spoken about this on the podcast before. But back in May,
15:43
Speaker 1: Brian Allen, who at the time was a brewer for
15:45
Speaker 1: Notch Brewing, in her Instagram stories said what sexist comments
15:50
Speaker 1: have you gotten in the beer industry? And that actually
15:52
Speaker 1: wasn't the first time that she had asked that in
15:55
Speaker 1: her stories, but it you know, it hit at the
16:00
Speaker 1: right time where it was thousands of people shared their stories. Um,
16:05
Speaker 1: I was one of them. I ended up leaving my
16:08
Speaker 1: job because it was it was something that had been
16:11
Speaker 1: building up, you know, over the course of the the
16:14
Speaker 1: year and a half that I had been there, that
16:16
Speaker 1: finally like reading through all the other stories, you know,
16:19
Speaker 1: there was there were things that I already knew. I
16:22
Speaker 1: was called terse for asking for equal pay um during
16:25
Speaker 1: an employee of evaluation, all sorts of things like that
16:28
Speaker 1: that you know, telling people about it is kind of
16:31
Speaker 1: like when you're talking I mean it is a toxic relationship, right,
16:34
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like when you're talking about like
16:36
Speaker 1: your your toxic boyfriend. And I remember telling my friends
16:40
Speaker 1: one night, like, you know, here's everything that's been happening,
16:43
Speaker 1: and they were like, that's a that's a lot of
16:46
Speaker 1: red flags and actually saying it all out loud and
16:49
Speaker 1: seeing their reactions was like, oh, that's right, that's not
16:52
Speaker 1: okay for somebody to treat me like that, let alone unemployee. UM.
16:56
Speaker 1: And you know, thousands of people felt the same way.
16:59
Speaker 1: I We're sharing their stories, and it got to such
17:03
Speaker 1: a volume that the industry could not ignore it any longer.
17:08
Speaker 1: And you know, since then, there's been a core group
17:13
Speaker 1: of us who have continued to beat that drum and
17:17
Speaker 1: not at all to to minimize I know that there
17:19
Speaker 1: are a ton of people out there doing a ton
17:21
Speaker 1: of work behind the scenes. And that's what we want,
17:24
Speaker 1: right is we want that work behind the scenes. I
17:26
Speaker 1: don't want social media posts. I don't want you know,
17:28
Speaker 1: we're listening, we are learning, you know, platitudes. I want
17:32
Speaker 1: to know that there are people doing that work. UM.
17:35
Speaker 1: So in the months since then, you know, we've put
17:39
Speaker 1: together several different initiatives to help support historically excluded people
17:44
Speaker 1: in the brewing industry, whether that is raising money for
17:49
Speaker 1: them to have financial assistance so they're not stuck in
17:52
Speaker 1: a job, UM, whether it is you know, helping vet
17:57
Speaker 1: employers so people know, hey, if you see this organization
18:00
Speaker 1: post this job, you know that this that this company
18:04
Speaker 1: has been vetted UM And sometimes it's also just being
18:08
Speaker 1: or I shouldn't say just sometimes it's being a sympathetic ear.
18:11
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I continue to have people reach
18:13
Speaker 1: out to me through social media, through email, you know,
18:16
Speaker 1: sometimes even in person to say, Hey, this happened or
18:20
Speaker 1: this is going on at my job and I don't
18:22
Speaker 1: know what to do about it. Um. So those conversations
18:26
Speaker 1: really hit a fever pitch in May or June. Um
18:29
Speaker 1: it's been somewhat frustrating to see everybody kind of be like, Okay,
18:33
Speaker 1: that's you know, just like we solved racism last year,
18:36
Speaker 1: we solve sexism this year because like we posted a
18:38
Speaker 1: black square, we said that we're listening to we're learning,
18:41
Speaker 1: so we can all move on from it. And uh,
18:44
Speaker 1: you know, that's obviously very much not the case. And
18:47
Speaker 1: so continuing to keep those conversations going and continuing to
18:52
Speaker 1: let people know that there is support out there. And
18:56
Speaker 1: you know, for me, one of the biggest things was
18:59
Speaker 1: realized sing that I wasn't alone, that this wasn't happening
19:03
Speaker 1: to me in isolation, because that was something that was
19:06
Speaker 1: very much happening. After I left, I heard from several
19:08
Speaker 1: other employees, and I heard from employees while I was there,
19:11
Speaker 1: who said, this has been happening to me, but I
19:15
Speaker 1: didn't have anybody to talk to you or I didn't
19:17
Speaker 1: know who to talk to, and the you know, the
19:20
Speaker 1: the company, the management very much kept it that way,
19:24
Speaker 1: kept people isolated from each other, kind of kept information
19:28
Speaker 1: from people, and a lot of people feel that isolation
19:32
Speaker 1: and so seen other people share those stories made made
19:36
Speaker 1: a lot of people realize, that's right, it is not
19:40
Speaker 1: okay for me to be treated this way. And it's
19:42
Speaker 1: not a me problem. I don't need to calm down.
19:44
Speaker 1: I'm not being overly sensitive. You are wrong, you were
19:47
Speaker 1: mistreating employees. Yeah, it's one of those things that's so infuriating.
19:53
Speaker 1: So much of what you're talking about is just infuriating
19:56
Speaker 1: because it feels like this culture of you know, isolating
20:02
Speaker 1: people and making people think like you're so lucky to
20:04
Speaker 1: have this job, like we're allowing you to play in here,
20:07
Speaker 1: um and you should be grateful for that opportunity that
20:10
Speaker 1: we are granting you um. Which is another way of
20:13
Speaker 1: keeping people quiet about things that they're experiencing and then
20:18
Speaker 1: having people talk, like speak up about it, which is great,
20:22
Speaker 1: and you know, finding that out you're not alone is great,
20:24
Speaker 1: but it's also frustrating too, because I feel like so
20:26
Speaker 1: many of us women are like it's almost like yeah,
20:32
Speaker 1: and guys are like, what, yeah, I can't just go
20:38
Speaker 1: into a hotel room at a conference without cahol. I'm sorry,
20:40
Speaker 1: I can't, right, which is ridiculous that they are all
20:43
Speaker 1: these things people have to take into consideration, and that
20:45
Speaker 1: it's keeping people either out of the business or pushing
20:50
Speaker 1: them out once they finally get in. I know so
20:53
Speaker 1: many incredibly talented, incredibly qualified women who have said, Okay,
20:57
Speaker 1: you know what, you don't want me here, I won't
20:59
Speaker 1: be here anymore. And you know, in all honesty, I've
21:03
Speaker 1: in the past few months, I have definitely reached that
21:05
Speaker 1: point myself a few times, to be like, Okay, if
21:07
Speaker 1: it's if my presence is so bad for everyone, if
21:11
Speaker 1: my speaking up makes it so uncomfortable for everyone else,
21:14
Speaker 1: then maybe I'll just leave. And then it's like, no,
21:17
Speaker 1: you leave, I'm right, you leave, or you do better, right, right, right,
21:23
Speaker 1: Like I will remain here. You're the problem, not me, right,
21:26
Speaker 1: You're not going to make the problem go away just
21:27
Speaker 1: because I leave necessarily, Like this is a an internal
21:31
Speaker 1: problem that needs to be addressed. And I feel like,
21:34
Speaker 1: maybe because I have been in the industry a little
21:36
Speaker 1: longer and well, once upon a time anyway, that there's
21:39
Speaker 1: some some like a cyclical thing where an incident will happen,
21:43
Speaker 1: will kind of listen and then move on, Like how
21:46
Speaker 1: do we think? How do you think that perhaps, of
21:49
Speaker 1: course this was a whole bigger thing, it actually got
21:51
Speaker 1: national attention from so many but why do you think
21:55
Speaker 1: we keep getting into these traps of like kind of
21:57
Speaker 1: like as you were talking to me about the Black
21:59
Speaker 1: Lives Matter, like this is so great and important, and
22:01
Speaker 1: all these rulers like, yeah, we got the black Square,
22:03
Speaker 1: we gotta bear for you. But it was literally just
22:06
Speaker 1: talk like how do we keep getting into these messages?
22:09
Speaker 1: Not we I kind of already know the answer, but
22:11
Speaker 1: you know, how do we get out of it? Yeah?
22:15
Speaker 1: You know it's I don't know, I I don't have
22:18
Speaker 1: assistant answer, And well again I say I don't know,
22:22
Speaker 1: I do know. Um, we need to continue to hold
22:24
Speaker 1: ourselves accountable, and we need to continue to commit to
22:28
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes being uncomfortable and sometimes messing up and
22:32
Speaker 1: learning from that discomfort, learning from those mistakes and moving forward,
22:37
Speaker 1: and that people don't want to do that. And you know,
22:41
Speaker 1: as long as we're still at critical mass with a
22:45
Speaker 1: you know, the industry being dominated by primarily you know,
22:49
Speaker 1: middle aged has had white men UM. It doesn't affect them.
22:53
Speaker 1: You know, the is the is the default, and I
22:55
Speaker 1: should I shouldn't put an entire blanket over saying like
22:58
Speaker 1: it doesn't affect them, because I'm sure it does on
23:00
Speaker 1: some level, but not to the degree that it affects
23:03
Speaker 1: other people. And that you know, it can't continue to
23:08
Speaker 1: fall on the shoulders of the people who are historically
23:13
Speaker 1: excluded to continue to push and to continue to say,
23:18
Speaker 1: please just treat me equally. I'm not even asking to
23:20
Speaker 1: be treated better. I'm just asking asking, you know, not
23:24
Speaker 1: to be groped or not to be paid less, or
23:28
Speaker 1: not to have to deal with, you know, microaggressions all
23:32
Speaker 1: of the time, and that that shouldn't always fall on
23:36
Speaker 1: the people who are affected to be educating those who
23:40
Speaker 1: aren't UM. And that's really where we've found ourselves within
23:44
Speaker 1: this movement now, is you know, I can't be your
23:47
Speaker 1: search engine, and you also can't task the all of
23:51
Speaker 1: the women who work for your brewery to start a
23:53
Speaker 1: committee to educate you on how they could be treated better.
23:58
Speaker 1: Um that there is some value in doing things like that,
24:02
Speaker 1: of course, and asking your employees for feedback, receiving it,
24:05
Speaker 1: and then acting on it. There can be a ton
24:08
Speaker 1: of value in that, but it's also just as valuable
24:11
Speaker 1: for leadership to be able to point to these are
24:14
Speaker 1: the steps we have taken. And those steps aren't commanding
24:18
Speaker 1: other employees to do additional work, probably for not additional pay,
24:23
Speaker 1: and probably outside of the scope of what they were
24:25
Speaker 1: hired to do. But you know, this is the training
24:29
Speaker 1: that I took. These are the articles that I've read
24:31
Speaker 1: that these are the resources that I've sought out on
24:34
Speaker 1: my own to make myself a better leader, to make
24:37
Speaker 1: sure that I understand as well as I can what's
24:40
Speaker 1: going on and how to make it better for you.
24:44
Speaker 1: And that's what you know. Again, I get asked a
24:47
Speaker 1: lot of really elementary questions by people that I'm like,
24:50
Speaker 1: I'm not your search engine. If you know you can yeah, yeah, exactly.
24:55
Speaker 1: You You can look up somebody's like some random nine
25:00
Speaker 1: the actors height on Google. You can google like anti
25:04
Speaker 1: racist resources, and it's much more meaningful to me if
25:08
Speaker 1: somebody comes to me and says I have found like
25:11
Speaker 1: these five things, um, you know, and here the my
25:14
Speaker 1: opinions I formed on whether these are good resources. What
25:18
Speaker 1: what do you think? Is there something else that I'm
25:20
Speaker 1: missing because we don't know what we don't know? But
25:24
Speaker 1: yes Google exists. Um so yeah, so you know, you know,
25:30
Speaker 1: moving forward, it is if we really are the industry
25:34
Speaker 1: we say we are, then it shouldn't be a problem
25:37
Speaker 1: to sometimes be uncomfortable if that means that from that
25:41
Speaker 1: discomfort comes growth and you know, more accessibility and a
25:44
Speaker 1: better understanding of how we can serve everyone who wants
25:48
Speaker 1: to be in the beer industry. I I feel like
26:07
Speaker 1: so many things you're talking about can be like we
26:10
Speaker 1: see it in all kinds of like it's not just
26:12
Speaker 1: this one right, and it's just like making me angry
26:15
Speaker 1: and angrier. Like you said, Samantha, we have this history
26:17
Speaker 1: of kind of kicking women out of beer, of like
26:21
Speaker 1: making it and then even drinking it. I remember for
26:23
Speaker 1: a while, and this was me very much internalizing stuff.
26:26
Speaker 1: But I've heard it from other friends. Like I thought,
26:28
Speaker 1: you know, if I ordered a beer, it had to
26:30
Speaker 1: be a light beer or else people would think who
26:34
Speaker 1: knows what they would think. But like she's a lady
26:36
Speaker 1: down to get frisky or something, which is ridiculous that
26:39
Speaker 1: we have these stereotypes about drinks, but we do. UM.
26:42
Speaker 1: So it's just like so much too untangled, And then
26:47
Speaker 1: it's I don't keep using the word frustrating, but it does.
26:50
Speaker 1: It frustrates me that you could. You've got so much
26:52
Speaker 1: talent and you've done so much stuff, and you've reached
26:54
Speaker 1: this point where you're getting You're like, I'm almost done
26:56
Speaker 1: with this and it shouldn't be on you to take
27:00
Speaker 1: on that emotional baggage, but unfortunately that's where we are.
27:04
Speaker 1: So I kind of want to ask you, um, when
27:06
Speaker 1: you made that list of like this is what I
27:08
Speaker 1: want to do, what's your thing about brewing? That was
27:11
Speaker 1: like that you loved and that you really really excited you.
27:15
Speaker 1: You know. For me, I'm very much a lifelong learner,
27:18
Speaker 1: Like I always joke if I could stay in school forever,
27:20
Speaker 1: I would, and beer really hits that for me. So
27:26
Speaker 1: in addition to having come from the legal world, my
27:30
Speaker 1: my undergraduate degree was in economics, and it's amazing how
27:36
Speaker 1: much beer has shaped history, its shaped economics, it's it's
27:40
Speaker 1: funded wars, it has you know, been influenced by and
27:45
Speaker 1: has influenced tax codes. It reaches every facet and for me,
27:52
Speaker 1: I'm at the spot now where I am very much
27:54
Speaker 1: a non a scientific person. So a lot of the
27:58
Speaker 1: like the biochemistry and microbiology part of beer is I
28:03
Speaker 1: can say the words, but I just don't really like
28:06
Speaker 1: I I sort of understand it, but I'm like, I
28:08
Speaker 1: need somebody to teach me chemistry, like I am a
28:11
Speaker 1: middle schooler because that's the last time I was in
28:13
Speaker 1: a chemistry class um. And so that's you know, that's
28:16
Speaker 1: a new challenge for me now is getting better at
28:20
Speaker 1: understanding really the science behind it and that you know,
28:25
Speaker 1: the science part specifically is where it is super old
28:30
Speaker 1: dudes who have been doing it for fifty years, and
28:33
Speaker 1: that's fabulous. They have a wealth of information and they've
28:36
Speaker 1: done some really cool things, but it's hard to find
28:40
Speaker 1: you know that that technical information that's presented in a
28:43
Speaker 1: way that's designed to make it accessible to somebody from
28:46
Speaker 1: a non technical background. Um. So you know that for me,
28:50
Speaker 1: just always being able to learn something really does it
28:54
Speaker 1: for me. And then I'm also huge into beer sensory
28:58
Speaker 1: and talking to people about beer flavor, and that is
29:02
Speaker 1: again another area that you know, the last year or
29:05
Speaker 1: so that I've been asking who gets to decide, who
29:09
Speaker 1: gets to decide what beer style guidelines look like, who
29:12
Speaker 1: gets to decide the terminology or who has historically decided
29:15
Speaker 1: the terminology we use to describe beer. Um, it's a
29:19
Speaker 1: very small pool of people, and there's a very large
29:22
Speaker 1: pool of people out there who could contribute to making
29:26
Speaker 1: that sensory language more meaningful to more people. And that's
29:32
Speaker 1: you know, that's another area of with the public again,
29:36
Speaker 1: empowering people. This is accessible to you. You are qualified
29:40
Speaker 1: to talk about what you're tasting. You're the most qualified
29:43
Speaker 1: person to talk about what you're tasting when you taste beer.
29:46
Speaker 1: And then also personally, I'm I'm always developing my palate
29:50
Speaker 1: and I'm always learning how to detect to detect something new.
29:54
Speaker 1: And you know, again Google exists, so like if I
29:57
Speaker 1: smell something and I think this smells like permasely susan,
30:00
Speaker 1: then I can go on Google and like look up
30:03
Speaker 1: what are what are compounds and perm solution and like
30:06
Speaker 1: work backwards from that. Um. So yeah, I mean with beer,
30:11
Speaker 1: it's I don't think it's possible to ever know everything
30:15
Speaker 1: there is to know about beer. Yeah, I love that
30:17
Speaker 1: it doesn't remind me of all the times that I
30:19
Speaker 1: would go in and we would do our tasting, so
30:21
Speaker 1: we get the tasting this when we're describing beer to customers,
30:25
Speaker 1: my favorite thing was to be like, what do you
30:27
Speaker 1: typically drink? What do you typically like? And let me
30:29
Speaker 1: give you this, and that satisfying moment of it being like,
30:31
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's like it's was one of my
30:35
Speaker 1: favorite was satisfying moments. I'm like, that's right, I know,
30:39
Speaker 1: and being able to turn people onto beers that they
30:41
Speaker 1: never had, didn't think they liked and and I love
30:44
Speaker 1: that and and like any was saying it's such a
30:46
Speaker 1: gender to drink, which irritates me to no end. But
30:50
Speaker 1: the assumption that I didn't know what I was talking
30:53
Speaker 1: about or people didn't want to talk to me because
30:55
Speaker 1: I was a girl. Uh, and trying to be like, no,
30:57
Speaker 1: this is the beer that you're talking this is even
31:00
Speaker 1: though they're fighting with me, they're like, no, no no, no,
31:01
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm talking about. My dude, I work here,
31:04
Speaker 1: I know are here. I had those moments and yeah,
31:08
Speaker 1: it was typically most times, dudeum, but within those times,
31:12
Speaker 1: like you talk about your love the experience and almost
31:16
Speaker 1: and then also talking about the fact that, yeah, you
31:18
Speaker 1: have had many times being like I'm done, I'm frustrated
31:21
Speaker 1: that it's not welcoming, but you continue to fight, which
31:24
Speaker 1: is what we love to see. And then again you
31:26
Speaker 1: talked about the incident with Brian Allen, which we were like,
31:29
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is I was reading through NonStop,
31:32
Speaker 1: like trying to catch up, and of course like saying
31:34
Speaker 1: this is familiar, this is not familiar. This brewery is
31:36
Speaker 1: I'm not drinking from there again, I'm not drinking from
31:38
Speaker 1: here again. Who's actually making a stand, who's actually making
31:41
Speaker 1: a difference, and who's actually not. But there were so many,
31:44
Speaker 1: like international level of stories that happened, and yeah, I
31:49
Speaker 1: did ended up reading your experience, but um, can you
31:51
Speaker 1: kind of go into your own experiences with movements like
31:55
Speaker 1: this and how it affects you and how you've been
31:58
Speaker 1: able to continue on? Yeah, you know, I have a
32:04
Speaker 1: lot of times with with this specifically, and I guess
32:08
Speaker 1: again feeding into that lifelong learner. I don't really want
32:11
Speaker 1: to learn about all the ways that I've been harassed
32:15
Speaker 1: or discriminated against, but you know, there there are things
32:19
Speaker 1: that I learn every day that helped me say Okay,
32:22
Speaker 1: this is what happened to me. Now I have words
32:25
Speaker 1: to describe it, and this is like, this is also
32:29
Speaker 1: how I can talk to someone else about it, because
32:32
Speaker 1: for me that is hugely important that there is a
32:36
Speaker 1: lot of you know, people who don't truly understand power dynamics. Yeah,
32:41
Speaker 1: you might be the nicest guy. You might go out
32:43
Speaker 1: and drink with all of your employees and have a
32:45
Speaker 1: good time, you are still the CEO. There is still
32:48
Speaker 1: a line that is going to be difficult for people
32:50
Speaker 1: to cross, and is still going to be difficult for
32:54
Speaker 1: someone to come to talk to you about something that's
32:57
Speaker 1: happened to them. And you know, that's where I've done
33:01
Speaker 1: a ton of learning and just having people reach out
33:06
Speaker 1: over social media saying this is happening, or I can't
33:11
Speaker 1: afford to leave, I don't have time to look for
33:13
Speaker 1: another job, and even if I do find another job,
33:16
Speaker 1: how do I know that it's going to be any better?
33:18
Speaker 1: It could very possibly be worse. And figuring out, Okay,
33:22
Speaker 1: what kinds of resources do you need right now? What
33:25
Speaker 1: is the most helpful, And that's you know, that's really
33:29
Speaker 1: um My experience within this this movement has been kind
33:34
Speaker 1: of staying one lesson ahead of the students, um, but
33:37
Speaker 1: also being willing to say, I don't know, let's let's
33:41
Speaker 1: figure it out together. UM, let's talk about, you know, what,
33:45
Speaker 1: what is it? What really is just the crux of
33:48
Speaker 1: what's going on here to help everyone verbalize what's happening
33:53
Speaker 1: and then also make a plan for moving forward from it. Um.
33:57
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I've I've been, you know, was
34:00
Speaker 1: spoken feminist my entire life. So you know, one of
34:04
Speaker 1: the areas with this movement that I think has been
34:09
Speaker 1: the most the most difficult conversations, the most difficult to
34:13
Speaker 1: really enunciate what is happening is I mean, just white
34:18
Speaker 1: feminism has been a huge issue with this, and you know,
34:22
Speaker 1: as as women were not afforded the ability to disagree
34:28
Speaker 1: with each other right and with historically excluded people like
34:31
Speaker 1: everybody has the same homogeneous experience, and you can't say
34:35
Speaker 1: I don't like the way you're feminine is in you know,
34:38
Speaker 1: and because then it's like, oh, well you we we
34:41
Speaker 1: don't even need to listen to you because you're you're
34:44
Speaker 1: not representing an entire gender with what it is that
34:47
Speaker 1: you're saying. And I've seen such a lack of intersectionality
34:52
Speaker 1: with a lot of what's going on in the brewing industry,
34:56
Speaker 1: and particularly with you know, people who have been in
35:00
Speaker 1: the industry a while who you know will say, uh, well,
35:04
Speaker 1: I won't go into like a ton of specifics about
35:07
Speaker 1: particular people, but that's happened a lot where I've had
35:11
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know this isn't we can't speak
35:15
Speaker 1: and we um specifically you know me sis had white
35:20
Speaker 1: woman can't speak for all of the experiences that are
35:24
Speaker 1: happening in the beer industry. There is in our sectionality
35:27
Speaker 1: here and we need to be learning how to make
35:31
Speaker 1: sure that we are doing our best to either make
35:35
Speaker 1: sure those resources are available, we're getting out of the
35:38
Speaker 1: way and you know, insane, I'm not the most qualified
35:41
Speaker 1: person to talk to you about this, this woman is
35:45
Speaker 1: because of these intersectional issues that are happening with what's
35:49
Speaker 1: going on. UM. So that's been one of the areas
35:52
Speaker 1: that I've I've personally been trying to learn more about
35:56
Speaker 1: is to help enunciate that better and to help myself,
36:00
Speaker 1: you know, understand my role in what's going on and
36:03
Speaker 1: then also understand how those dynamics work and when is
36:08
Speaker 1: it time for me to step aside, and what is
36:10
Speaker 1: it time for me to reach out to other women
36:12
Speaker 1: and share what I'm learning so we can make sure
36:16
Speaker 1: that this movement is truly for all women affected by it.
36:34
Speaker 1: Out of curiosity, because you've been doing this for a while,
36:37
Speaker 1: have you seen changes for better or worse during your
36:41
Speaker 1: time in this industry? Um? Yes, and yes, uh so.
36:46
Speaker 1: I I have seen people, you know, making incremental changes
36:50
Speaker 1: and people willing to do that that hard work, willing
36:54
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable, willing to get the training, willing to
36:57
Speaker 1: have those hard conversations with all of their employees, and
37:00
Speaker 1: also willing to you know, have somebody approached them. That
37:05
Speaker 1: was a resource that I had shared with people of Hey,
37:09
Speaker 1: somebody has called you out. What do you do? You know,
37:11
Speaker 1: how do you react and somebody has come to you
37:15
Speaker 1: with a problem. What is the proper way to listen
37:19
Speaker 1: to them and to empathize with them and not say
37:22
Speaker 1: something like that doesn't sound like them. You know where
37:25
Speaker 1: you're You think you're trying to be helpful, but somebody's
37:28
Speaker 1: like re traumatizing themselves to tell you what happened, and
37:31
Speaker 1: you just minimize it. And so they've learned a very
37:33
Speaker 1: important lesson, right that they can't speak up or they
37:36
Speaker 1: can't speak to you about it. And I've seen a
37:39
Speaker 1: lot of people being willing to have those conversations. I've
37:43
Speaker 1: seen a lot of breweries, um, you know, willing to
37:46
Speaker 1: be more transparent about things like here's our code of conduct.
37:50
Speaker 1: You can you know you can. We have it posted
37:52
Speaker 1: on our website. You can read what we're doing to
37:55
Speaker 1: keep you safe, to keep our employees safe, you know,
37:57
Speaker 1: to keep everyone safe, the and the this is also
38:00
Speaker 1: the resources that are available to you when you're in
38:02
Speaker 1: our tap room. I've seen not great things, you know,
38:06
Speaker 1: I've I've heard people say like, oh, this blew over already,
38:10
Speaker 1: you know, week after I left my former company, they
38:13
Speaker 1: that that was something that was being said, like, oh, yeah,
38:16
Speaker 1: that blew over. We don't have to worry about that anymore.
38:19
Speaker 1: Um So, I've seen a lot of that, and I've
38:22
Speaker 1: seen a lot of people who and I'll try to
38:26
Speaker 1: be as fair as I can, but a lot of
38:29
Speaker 1: breweries who seemingly have decided that they don't need to
38:33
Speaker 1: care about it anymore, or you know, there's some sort
38:36
Speaker 1: of cognitive dissonance. Say there's a festival that they want
38:39
Speaker 1: to attend with a very problematic brewerer person who's involved
38:43
Speaker 1: with it and they really want to go, but you know,
38:47
Speaker 1: they also then have to answer questions from customers and
38:50
Speaker 1: from the industry on. I thought that this is where
38:54
Speaker 1: you stood, but now you're doing this, so we need
38:57
Speaker 1: you to reconcile that. And and I say, you know,
39:01
Speaker 1: trying to be fair, because again, social media doesn't tell
39:04
Speaker 1: the entire story, right, So I it means more to
39:07
Speaker 1: me for a brewery when I ask as a customer
39:11
Speaker 1: what are you doing for them to say we did
39:13
Speaker 1: these five things? Or you know, you can go to
39:15
Speaker 1: our website and you can see this. These are our
39:17
Speaker 1: policies for our employees. That that transparency is so much
39:21
Speaker 1: more meaningful than you know, posting on on social media
39:26
Speaker 1: saying that you're not going to the festival or saying
39:28
Speaker 1: that you're not going to do this. Okay, great, that's
39:31
Speaker 1: that's something, but that's that doesn't tell me if you've
39:34
Speaker 1: learned anything from that experience or how you're going to
39:37
Speaker 1: move forward from the experience. That's a lot. You know,
39:40
Speaker 1: you are talking a lot about how we can support
39:43
Speaker 1: you know, individually, but because you're involved in a lot
39:46
Speaker 1: of different things, you've got your hands and so many things.
39:49
Speaker 1: What are some organizations that we should know about that
39:51
Speaker 1: could support and bring about change and or at least
39:55
Speaker 1: bring awareness for us to know what's going on in
39:56
Speaker 1: the industry. One of the causes that I'm involved in,
40:00
Speaker 1: and this is actually how Sam and I met, was
40:03
Speaker 1: with Brave Noise. And this is a collaboration within the
40:07
Speaker 1: beer industry for breweries to show their support for historically
40:12
Speaker 1: excluded people. And the way the Brave Noise works is
40:16
Speaker 1: when you sign up, you actually submit a copy of
40:19
Speaker 1: your code of conduct, and you receive the beer recipe,
40:23
Speaker 1: brew it. When the beer is ready to go, you
40:25
Speaker 1: donate the proceeds to a nonprofit that helps support historically
40:29
Speaker 1: excluded people in the brewing industry somehow that can look
40:33
Speaker 1: like whatever you would like it to look like. And
40:36
Speaker 1: then also on your beer, can you print the QR
40:39
Speaker 1: code that will people can scan and it will take
40:42
Speaker 1: them to your code of conduct. That is a great
40:45
Speaker 1: way for consumers, specifically, ask your favorite brewery if they're
40:51
Speaker 1: planning to brew Brave Noise, and if they're not, ask
40:54
Speaker 1: them why not. And I definitely don't mean that in
40:56
Speaker 1: a bullying way, because you know, I've talked to some
40:58
Speaker 1: breweries who are like, we schedule our beers out, you know,
41:02
Speaker 1: like six months in advance or something. So there there
41:04
Speaker 1: are reasons why people might not be able to prioritize that,
41:08
Speaker 1: but it's still worth asking. Um. I have a friend
41:11
Speaker 1: of mine who was doing that, you know, on her own,
41:16
Speaker 1: just started emailing breweries to say, and you know, emailing
41:20
Speaker 1: as a consumer to say, hey, you know, these two
41:23
Speaker 1: breweries in town brew Brave Noise and I really like
41:26
Speaker 1: your brewery, I really like your beer. Are you planning
41:28
Speaker 1: to brew it? And I think at least two of
41:31
Speaker 1: the breweries that she had emailed ended up saying, you know,
41:34
Speaker 1: we had talked about it, and yes, now now we will.
41:38
Speaker 1: So for consumers, you know, ask them if they're if
41:41
Speaker 1: they're planning to brew Brave Noise. If you're in a brewery,
41:45
Speaker 1: ask about their code of conduct. Ask, you know, what
41:48
Speaker 1: what do they have in place to help keep customers safe.
41:51
Speaker 1: Do they have training? You know, there's things like safe
41:54
Speaker 1: Bars training where where breweries will get trained on how
41:59
Speaker 1: to do a good by standard intervention, what to look for,
42:03
Speaker 1: how to keep people safe, what to do with the
42:05
Speaker 1: situation escalates, how to deescalate all sorts of things, and
42:09
Speaker 1: there are a ton of breweries were doing stuff like that.
42:12
Speaker 1: So ask because you know a lot of times if
42:15
Speaker 1: the if the consumers the one asking. Breweries want to
42:19
Speaker 1: give consumers what they want. That's why we have so
42:22
Speaker 1: many like fruited sours and you know, like stouts with
42:26
Speaker 1: like twinkies and like chewed up bubblegum in it and stuff.
42:29
Speaker 1: So breweries want to make their customers happy, right, make
42:33
Speaker 1: sure that you're letting them know that this would make
42:36
Speaker 1: me very happy as a consumer. Other things to be
42:39
Speaker 1: aware of. We also have the Brave Voices Fund, which
42:43
Speaker 1: is a fund that we created to be able to
42:46
Speaker 1: help provide financial assistance for people who need to leave
42:51
Speaker 1: that job. You know, again, it was it was a
42:53
Speaker 1: huge privilege and continues to be a huge privilege for
42:55
Speaker 1: me that I'm part of a dual income household. So
42:58
Speaker 1: it was not easy for me to leave my job.
43:02
Speaker 1: But we were going to be fine in the interim
43:05
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm part of a dual income household.
43:08
Speaker 1: We can make it work and a lot of people
43:11
Speaker 1: don't have that privilege, and so that's just a reality. Um.
43:15
Speaker 1: The Brave Voice is fund is it accepts donations. You
43:20
Speaker 1: can also go to the Brave Noise dot com website
43:23
Speaker 1: and there's a ton of different charities and nonprofits on
43:26
Speaker 1: there where you can donate your money directly that are
43:28
Speaker 1: doing different things like promoting mental health, you know, providing training,
43:33
Speaker 1: providing job training, all sorts of things. There are a
43:38
Speaker 1: lot of really great organizations doing really good work right
43:41
Speaker 1: now that would be happy to receive your money, receive
43:44
Speaker 1: your time, receive your donation, um receive your voice. You know,
43:48
Speaker 1: amplifying these things as consumers is huge. I mean, that's
43:53
Speaker 1: that's really everything, and that's that's one of the things
43:56
Speaker 1: that's been frustrating at times throughout this movement is the
44:00
Speaker 1: general public isn't aware of what's of everything that's been
44:05
Speaker 1: going on, right, So making more people aware that none
44:11
Speaker 1: of us can humanly care about every single thing in
44:16
Speaker 1: the world. Right, but you know, there are causes we
44:19
Speaker 1: can be deliberate when we're making some of our purchasing decisions.
44:23
Speaker 1: Someplace like craft beer is a great place to be
44:26
Speaker 1: able to do that. You know, your your money has power,
44:29
Speaker 1: and if somebody you know isn't isn't able to show
44:34
Speaker 1: you what they're doing again, if it's something that's important
44:37
Speaker 1: to you. If you're listening to this, I'm guessing it
44:39
Speaker 1: probably is important to you. You know, you can ask
44:42
Speaker 1: those questions and make your purchasing decisions accordingly. That's that's
44:48
Speaker 1: all amazing. So is there looking back now? Is there
44:53
Speaker 1: something you would tell your younger self as you're getting
44:57
Speaker 1: into this industry, any advice you would give? Oh man, Yeah,
45:05
Speaker 1: you know, I think it would be too gosh. I
45:09
Speaker 1: think it would be too you know, speak up more.
45:13
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to condition myself out of politely laughing
45:18
Speaker 1: when a man says something to me that, I'm like,
45:20
Speaker 1: my first reaction is ha and then like it'll soak
45:23
Speaker 1: in what was just said to me. Um. So I'm
45:26
Speaker 1: still trying to like unlearn doing that and unlearn. Um.
45:32
Speaker 1: Yeah that that polite laugh gets me so much and
45:35
Speaker 1: I get so frustrated by it. So I think I
45:37
Speaker 1: would tell myself my younger self, you don't have to
45:41
Speaker 1: do that, right you. You don't have to make the
45:45
Speaker 1: people around you comfortable when it means that you are
45:48
Speaker 1: feeling uncomfortable or unsafe. That's really good. Um. And because
45:54
Speaker 1: you know we are talking about beer and you're an expert,
45:58
Speaker 1: what is your top three beers that we should know about.
46:03
Speaker 1: I'm giving you three because if you're more more like
46:06
Speaker 1: any and now we have too many, especially in the
46:08
Speaker 1: field that we love. Um except an he likes to
46:10
Speaker 1: take bonuses. I'm not giving you bonuses. Just okay. I
46:15
Speaker 1: will give you three beer styles. This is a little
46:18
Speaker 1: bit of a cheap because I'm not going to help
46:20
Speaker 1: three specific beers. It will give you three beer styles.
46:24
Speaker 1: Number one smoked beer. It's my absolute favorite. The reason
46:27
Speaker 1: why I'm telling you I'm not giving you a specific
46:29
Speaker 1: beer for this is because smoked beer is such a
46:32
Speaker 1: wide range of flavors and levels of smoke that I
46:38
Speaker 1: am an evangelist for smoked beer. So there is a
46:42
Speaker 1: smoked beer out there for everyone, the same way there's
46:44
Speaker 1: a beer out there for everyone. There's a smoked beer
46:47
Speaker 1: out there that you will like. Uh So, smoked beer
46:50
Speaker 1: number one like by by a long shot. Yes, everyone, Everyone,
46:54
Speaker 1: go find a smoked beer. And if you don't like
46:56
Speaker 1: the first one, keep trying, because I guarantee you will
46:58
Speaker 1: find a good one. Number two. I would have to say, really, oh,
47:04
Speaker 1: this is tough because it's kind of like when you
47:06
Speaker 1: ask like a film person what their favorite movie is.
47:08
Speaker 1: It's like, well, it depends you found one way to
47:11
Speaker 1: cheat those, Yes, you know. My other one, I would
47:17
Speaker 1: say to seek out a really well made mixed fermentation beer.
47:25
Speaker 1: So that's going to be something that's going to have
47:27
Speaker 1: some sour characteristics, some funky Britaina mice's characteristics. And I
47:31
Speaker 1: say well made because there's a lot of like not
47:33
Speaker 1: super great ones out there, but there are a few
47:36
Speaker 1: places who do them really well. Um, So I would
47:39
Speaker 1: search out one of those, and that that style, that
47:43
Speaker 1: mixed fermentation is going to be one that is really great.
47:47
Speaker 1: If you are a wine drinker, particularly if you like
47:50
Speaker 1: natural wines, you're going to love a mixed fermentation beer.
47:53
Speaker 1: And then my last recommendation, This one is tough because
47:58
Speaker 1: in my mind I'm thinking about all these different ones
48:01
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, which one would be a good
48:02
Speaker 1: third place? Um, But I will go with one of
48:06
Speaker 1: my favorites, which is a barley wine. If you can
48:08
Speaker 1: find a really nice barley wine, I'm partial to American
48:11
Speaker 1: barley wines. There's American and English barley wines there. They're
48:15
Speaker 1: all amazing. Um, they're all very you know, both styles
48:19
Speaker 1: have their pluses and minuses. My preference is for American
48:22
Speaker 1: barley wine. One of my very favorite, like top five
48:25
Speaker 1: years of all time is here Nevada Bigfoot, and that's
48:29
Speaker 1: a great one that is really easy to find. UM,
48:32
Speaker 1: so I would recommend that one as well. I love it.
48:35
Speaker 1: I We're gonna have some English barley but I know,
48:39
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, that one's email. Okay, do you have
48:50
Speaker 1: any breweries that you would like to shout out or
48:52
Speaker 1: any of that group? I don't know why I like that. Yeah,
48:57
Speaker 1: you know, I think I would shout out again. You
48:59
Speaker 1: can go to the Brave Noise website, UM, and all
49:02
Speaker 1: of the brewers who are participating are listed on there.
49:04
Speaker 1: You can search by state, you can search by country.
49:08
Speaker 1: I would shout out every single brewery who has signed
49:10
Speaker 1: up to brew Brave Noise. Yes, Yes, and and shout
49:16
Speaker 1: out to you for all of the work you are
49:17
Speaker 1: doing this, all of it. That's so amazing, UM, and
49:21
Speaker 1: thank you for being here for this fantastic conversation. Good
49:25
Speaker 1: luck on all of your area you're coming up. UM,
49:30
Speaker 1: where can the good listeners find you? You can find
49:33
Speaker 1: me on on social media. I'm under the influence. You
49:37
Speaker 1: can also visit my website under the influence dot Beer.
49:40
Speaker 1: I do have some online beer training courses that I
49:43
Speaker 1: will be really not very shortly. Um So if you're
49:46
Speaker 1: interested in learning more about becoming a beer judge or
49:49
Speaker 1: doing something like this is around certification program, I will
49:52
Speaker 1: have something for you very soon. But I love hearing
49:56
Speaker 1: from people. I love getting questions, Um, you know, beer recipes,
50:00
Speaker 1: which beer should I drink? Which beer should I brew next?
50:03
Speaker 1: Where do I even get started? Reach out to me.
50:05
Speaker 1: I also co host a podcast called Fosse Bottom Girls
50:09
Speaker 1: and that is you can find us on False Bottom Girls,
50:13
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook's cool. Yes, and yes, we definitely want
50:19
Speaker 1: to hear more about all of your recommendations. And yeah,
50:22
Speaker 1: we need your help in learning about beer. I was
50:24
Speaker 1: just thinking about Annie talking about how she can't describe things.
50:27
Speaker 1: I'm like, we wouldn't have to do a personal session.
50:29
Speaker 1: I think, Yes, I love that idea. I've into it.
50:32
Speaker 1: I have a lot to learn, and I'm I'm excited
50:34
Speaker 1: to learn it. So I've been proved well. Thank you
50:40
Speaker 1: so much again, Jen for being here such a delight,
50:44
Speaker 1: and thanks to you listeners for listening. If you'd like
50:46
Speaker 1: to email us, you can or email Stuff Idia mom
50:48
Speaker 1: Stuff at I Hurt mea dot com. You can find
50:50
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You, or
50:52
Speaker 1: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always,
50:55
Speaker 1: you're a super producer. Christina, Thank you and thanks to
50:58
Speaker 1: you for listening. Told instruction of Heart Radio for more
51:00
Speaker 1: podcast on my Heart Radio video, Heartradio App. Have a
51:02
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H